In practice, the permit system described in the article below functions rather like a modern-day Pact of Umar, making the construction of churches -- or the use of existing buildings as churches -- similarly subject to the whims of local Muslim communities. These churches were not approved, and thus, not "protected" under the dhimma pact. "North Sumatra, two Protestant churches burnt: 'too many faithful and too many prayers'," by Mathias Hariyadi for AsiaNews, January 23:
Jakarta (AsiaNews) - A crowd of at least 1000 people burned down two Protestant churches last night in Sibuhuan (district of Padang Lawas, North Sumatra). The blaze was the culmination of tension between the faithful and the local Islamic community, tired of seeing " too many faithful and too many prayers " in a place not registered as a church.
The district chief of Padang Lawas, Basrah Lubis, said that "the attackers arrived in a flash. Their number was enormous, more or less a thousand. They were angry because the administration of the church had not responded to their demands: to change the use of buildings from 'places of prayer' to 'neutral buildings'. "
Both burned churches - two adjoining buildings - belong to the Synod of the Protestant Batak Church (Huria Kristen Batak Protestant, Hkbp), and are Pentecostal churches, whose faithful belong predominantly to the ethnic Batak group. Even their liturgies, with dances and songs are in Batak language.
According to police, neither of the two buildings had a building permit and had to be considered "places of prayer" and not "churches". In Indonesia, to build a church a special legal permit (Izin Mendirikan Bangunan, IMB) is necessary. The process to get the permit is almost always hard and the Islamic community has boycotted the emergence of new churches. This lack of legal permits has become the main source of Muslims violence against Christians.
According to local witnesses, the first skirmishes took place last Christmas, when a large group of Sibuhuan residents held a sit-in protest against the existence of two churches, which has "too many members and disturbs the neighbours."
In fact, the services of the Pentecostal community are full of songs and musical instruments and it is possible that the religious holiday services were a nuisance to local members of another religion.
Conflicting with previous statements, the locals also argue against the community's attempts to turn these "places of prayer" in "real churches". "The legal basis for declaring a church is that the number of believers is at least 60 members. But this community has only 23 members", claims Basrah Lubis.
The Hkbp community of Sibuhuan is in existence since 1982 and still can not get permission to convert buildings into real recognized churches. Lubis Basrah admits that non Christian local hinder recognition.
Now that the two buildings have been reduced to ashes, Hkbp communities have to travel to Sosa, 28 kilometres from Sibuhuan, where there are three permanent churches.
The Rev. Gomar Gultom, executive secretary of the Synod of Christian Churches in Indonesia (PGI), points out that all this anti-Christian violence occurs because some radical Islamic groups are deeply opposed to the construction of Christian places of worship and seek to restrain the public practise of other faiths. "In Indonesia, Christianity is legal - he says - but often, Christians are threatened."
Only yesterday in Jakarta, Prof. Said Agil Siradj of Nahdlatul Ulama (NU), the largest (moderate) Muslim organization in the country, submitted a report by the Wahid Institute to promote pluralism in Indonesia. The report shows that in 2009, out of about 35 cases of violation of religious freedom, 28 are against Christians. Prof. Sirad says that the violence against Christians is caused by small groups of Islamic extremists, whose knowledge of "true Islam is very poor."
But the spokesman for pluralism insists it's the Christians who need to be sensitive:
He also encouraged Christians to keep good relations with Muslims, showing sensitivity towards them. Trying to build a church, all right - he said - but "it is better and wiser to discuss the plan with the local population to minimize misunderstandings."...
This will continue until Christians extract an unacceptable price for such violence against them -- a blood price.
What's that you say? Christians would never do such a thing? In that we have the complete explanation for why Muslim-majority states routinely oppress their Christian minorities, whether officially or through the action of "unrestrainable" Muslim mobs.
God help us all if Muslims become so numerous within America's borders that they can pull that sort of thing here.
Well, another confirmation of the maxim, 'that the more 'Islamic' a country becomes, the worse conditions become for everyone'. Aside from converting Muslims to Christianity or another faith, it seems that the only solution is the segregation of Muslims from the rest of the world. Let Muslims revel in their own hatred, bigotry, and ignorance away from the rest of us.
All over the world, non-Muslims are required to be "sensitive" towards Muslims - or else.
Our Opposition leader, Tony Abbott, hinted yesterday that he is tired of this nonsense (he didn't mention Muslims but most of us recognised the allusions) and immediately the "anti-racists" were on him like wolves.
If we ever defeat out fifth column and can start to really tackle the aggression of Islam, we must be careful, as the first country to take such measures as limiting Muslim immigration will feel the full force of the Umma.
I have an unpleasant feeling that they consider our Western oountries as belonging to Allah already.
http://newstime.co.nz/2010/gallery-coptic-christians-protest-at-egyptian-consulat-nyc.html
“Coptic Christians Protest at Egyptian Consulat (NYC)”
The local Islamic community, tired of seeing too many faithful & too many prayers...
Too many members...
This community has only 23 members...
Violence against Christians is caused by small groups of Islamic extremists...
A crowd of at least 1000 people...
Their number was enormous...
No wonder these crazy, mixed-up moslems are confused & angry!
To change the use of buildings from 'places of prayer' to 'neutral buildings'...
The two buildings have been reduced to ashes...
Carbonization = Neutralization... Very astute.
The church had not responded to their demands...
Insisting it's the Christians who need to be sensitive...
The Islamic community has boycotted the emergence of new churches...
I can really understand this. If my neighbors don't meet my DEMANDS to properly inflate their ballon snowmen, leaving them half-filled & stooping over every 'holiday season', I myself become enraged, wish to turn them into ashes, & will most definitely boycott them next year... !
How does one boycott the 'emergence' of a half-blown-up (pun intended) snowman?
Where on Earth are our news organizations? Why is there little if any news coverage of this by the MSM? Why are they ignoring or twisting the war which islam wages against
the non muslim peoples? Frontline, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC ..NY Times, speak the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For every church burned the government should have as policy to decommission at least two mosques one of which could be used to replace the church.
Prof. Sirad says that the violence against Christians is caused by small groups of Islamic extremists, whose knowledge of "true Islam is very poor."
It's interesting that so many Mahoundians misunderstand 'true Islam', in exactly the same way...I hope the good Professor is seeking out those extremists and explaining to them where they went wrong...
I normally propose peaceful solutions but.... these Christians NEED to fight fire with fire.
That barbaric Mohameddians will NEVER be impressed by their submission- it just makes them easy targets. For each drop of Christian blood shed, a gallon of Muzzie blood must be extracted.
What's a "neutral building"? Seriously--in Indonesia, what sort of building would be accepted as neutral and thus fit for use by all?
1000 non-Christians versus 23 Christans? Mob violence, and nothing more or less.
Muhammed couldn't conceive of a true original idea, and because he's THE role model for Muhammedans today, they cannot have original thoughts either.
Even the concept of an "Ummah" was inspired by the Christians, who are the Body of Christ. Strictly speaking, a church is not a physical building. The building is merely a meeting place. The actual church is its members. As long as there are two or more who come together in the name of Christ, that's a church.
Chew on that, for a while, Muhammedans. Don't try to swallow it too fast, though. You might choke.
Dear Tim, Francis and others who advocate a forceful response.
Having lived and worked in Indonesia for decades I can let you know what happens when a response like you suggest is made.
In 1998-2005 due to the mass burnings of the homes, churches and businesses of Christians in Poso (I lived there 8 years) and Maluku (North and South)and I worked there 5 years, some Christians felt the severe need to respond to protect themselves. What happened? A jihad against the Christians was announced and many massacres took place.
In Poso 15,000 homes were destroyed. 3 schoolgirls on their way to school were beheaded. Market places were bombed (Tentena - 26 dead and Palu 12 dead), many buses were bombed (killed 2 of my staff) etc.
In Maluku over 50,000 homes were destroyed. In Duma, Halmahera island 0ver 200 were massacred in the Protestant church. On the island of Lata-lata, 1600 were force-converted to Islam, force-circumcised (men, women and children) - and what did the government do? They assisted! The military helped in the massacres. Government officials helped in the forced conversions etc.
In all 10,000 died and today (2010) the recovery efforts are still continuing. For a minority to rise up and protect itself is a very dangerous thing to do especially when the so-called "free" West does nothing to help them.
"He also encouraged Christians to keep good relations with Muslims, showing sensitivity towards them."
Yes, and the Jews should have shown more sensitivity towards the Nazis. That would have helped.
/sarc
Sometimes, I wonder, where this all is headed.
The district chief of Padang Lawas, Basrah Lubis, said that "the attackers arrived in a flash. Their number was enormous, more or less a thousand. They were angry because the administration of the church had not responded to their demands: to change the use of buildings from 'places of prayer' to 'neutral buildings'. "
...............................
"Neutral buildings"—whatever is non-offensive to Muslims.
more:
Both burned churches - two adjoining buildings - belong to the Synod of the Protestant Batak Church (Huria Kristen Batak Protestant, Hkbp), and are Pentecostal churches, whose faithful belong predominantly to the ethnic Batak group. Even their liturgies, with dances and songs are in Batak language.
...............................
Singing and dancing and expressions of joy. No wonder the Muslims are so offended! Seriously, the odious Pact of Umar prevents Christians from using bells or even praying audibly.
more:
According to police, neither of the two buildings had a building permit and had to be considered "places of prayer" and not "churches". In Indonesia, to build a church a special legal permit (Izin Mendirikan Bangunan, IMB) is necessary. The process to get the permit is almost always hard and the Islamic community has boycotted the emergence of new churches. This lack of legal permits has become the main source of Muslims violence against Christians.
...............................
Again, straight from the Pact of Umar, which prevents Christians from building new churches, or even maintaining or repairing existing ones.
more:
According to local witnesses, the first skirmishes took place last Christmas, when a large group of Sibuhuan residents held a sit-in protest against the existence of two churches, which has "too many members and disturbs the neighbours."
...............................
"Too many members"—yes, I'm sure those *23 people* constitute quite a disruptive mob. sarc/off
more:
The Hkbp community of Sibuhuan is in existence since 1982 and still can not get permission to convert buildings into real recognized churches.
...............................
Sure—what's twenty-eight years compared to fourteen centuries of oppressing Christians?
more:
The Rev. Gomar Gultom, executive secretary of the Synod of Christian Churches in Indonesia (PGI), points out that all this anti-Christian violence occurs because some radical Islamic groups are deeply opposed to the construction of Christian places of worship and seek to restrain the public practise of other faiths. "In Indonesia, Christianity is legal - he says - but often, Christians are threatened."
...............................
Yes—Christianity is legal—on paper. As is so common in Dar-al-Islam, often the constitution has little to do with treatment of non-Muslims in the breach. It is usually no more than window dressing for the 'international community'.
more:
Prof. Sirad says that the violence against Christians is caused by small groups of Islamic extremists, whose knowledge of "true Islam is very poor."
...............................
"A small group"—like that mob of 1,000 who burned down the Christian churches? As is so often the case, this "small minority of extremists" seems suspiciously like a majority of this small community of Christians' Muslim neighbors. And again, it is interesting that this 'ignorance of Islam' always seems to take the same form.
more:
But the spokesman for pluralism insists it's the Christians who need to be sensitive:
He also encouraged Christians to keep good relations with Muslims, showing sensitivity towards them.
...............................
"Showing sensitivity" here means act the dhimmi, or suffer the consequences.
Thank you to poster Rabaul, above, who reminds us just what sort of horrific response Christians who stand up for their rights can expect when they are surrounded by hostile Muslims.
Nice analysis, gravenimage. You've really said all there is to say.
I saw at once what you saw - the discrepancy between the facts - a flash mob of 1000 (possibly more, who knows) - and the Muslim spin-doctor's claim about 'small groups'.
A mob of 1000 isn't a 'small group', as *I* see it...
In fact, I have filed this story not only under 'Indonesian saints and martyrs', but *also* in an e-file entitled, sarcastically, 'tiny minority of extremists'.
How hard it is to stay calm
When church burning's called untrue Islam.
It affirms Umar's Pact,
So Islam is intact.
But it might strike more terror to bomb.