As I wrote here in December: "One thing we have seen over the years since 9/11 is that airport security is always one step behind the jihadists: after jihadist Richard Reid attempted to set off a bomb hidden in his shoes, we all have to take off our shoes and send them through security scanners. After a group of jihadists tried to sneak onto planes explosive chemicals hidden in drink bottles, we can't carry drinks through airport security terminals. Because Abdulmutallab attempted his jihad attack just before the plane landed, now we can't get up during the last hour of the flight. The one thing that the TSA should have learned, but hasn't, is that next time the jihadists will do something else, not just repeat what they did before. And even if every passenger were given a full body cavity search, they will find some way to get around it. But attempt a new approach based on sensible profiling? The TSA would rather fold up shop altogether."
And just imagine if the Islamic jihadis turned all this energy and ingenuity to something constructive, instead of devoting it all to devising new ways to murder people.
"Terrorists 'plan attack on Britain with bombs INSIDE their bodies' to foil new airport scanners," by Christopher Leake for the Mail On Sunday, January 30 (thanks to Doug):
Britain is facing a new Al Qaeda terror threat from suicide 'body bombers' with explosives surgically inserted inside them.Until now, terrorists have attacked airlines, Underground trains and buses by secreting bombs in bags, shoes or underwear to avoid detection.
But an operation by MI5 has uncovered evidence that Al Qaeda is planning a new stage in its terror campaign by inserting 'surgical bombs' inside people for the first time.
Security services believe the move has been prompted by the recent introduction at airports of body scanners, which are designed to catch terrorists before they board flights.
It is understood MI5 became aware of the threat after observing increasingly vocal internet 'chatter' on Arab websites this year.
The warning comes in the wake of the failed attempt by London-educated Nigerian Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab to blow up an airliner approaching Detroit on Christmas Day.
One security source said: 'If the terrorists are talking about this, we need to be ready and do all we can to counter the threat.'
A leading source added that male bombers would have the explosive secreted near their appendix or in their buttocks, while females would have the material placed inside their breasts in the same way as figure-enhancing implants.
Experts said the explosive PETN (Pentaerythritol Tetranitrate) would be placed in a plastic sachet inside the bomber's body before the wound was stitched up like a normal operation incision and allowed to heal.
A shaped charge of 8oz of PETN can penetrate five inches of armour and would easily blow a large hole in an airliner....
And, of course, profiling would be bad.......
So, the Qur'an requires Muslim women to cover their "adornments" from the gaze of men but plastic explosive "adornments" are just fine.
The new full-body scanners can detect breast implants but not all types of explosives.
Let's just go for the profiling option and set the dial to "all Muslims (or could be Muslims) on every trip".
Exploding boobs!?!?!? Has Lady GaGa included that in her act yet?
This is the price we must pay for allowing large number of Muslims into the West. 60-70 years ago there was no need for this massive (and ultimately useless) surveillance state, but since our liberal elites (and that includes a good many establishment "conservatives") have decided that we are badly in need of "diversity", even at the cost of our own lives and liberties, we must suffer with this boot on our face forever.
The solution is clear
1. We cannot stop Muslims from flying with us (we'd be sued if we refused to fly with them)
2. We cannot profile Muslims (that would be racist)
3. We cannot ask if they are Muslim, so we must ask if they are Christian, Buddhist, Protestant,...
The answer is we can only fly body parts. No internal organs, bones, implants, or other materials allowed.
Wallah! Problem solved
or
We could as the Israelis how they do it. Naw, they're Joos, and Barry doesn't like Joos.
They cannot carry out these attacks without the assistance of teams of Islamic terrorist surgeons and other medics, who exist in huge abundance in the British National Health system. See links under 'DOCTORS OF DEATH' at http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/everything-you-need-to-know-about-islam.html
This gives new meaning to the words that the Algerian leader Houari Boumedienne uttered at the U.N. in 1974, or rather, to his last monitory and triumphalist sentiment:
“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends.
Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”
Yes, it appears from the story above that, in yet another way, unintended by Boumediene, "the wombs of our women will give us victory."
It is up to the Infidels of Europe and North America, essentially the countries of NATO, to prevent the takeover, through natal disparities, of the heart, the fons et origo, of the Western world, and further to figure out the ways to so threaten the world of Islam that otherwise unstoppable because undetectable threats, as above, of mass-murder through terrorism are prevented because the consequences, for Islam itself and its adherents, would be too grave even for the people who delight in such attacks. They won't delight in them, as individuals seeking their Muslim houri-laden Heaven, if they think the consequences here on earth for Islam will be too severe. It is the duty of those who presume to protect us to start talking, openly, about some of those possible (and certain) consequences, should such terrorist attempts or attacks continue. Fear of what the Americans would do in retaliation prevented the Soviet government from certain actions. The same kind of deterrence should be employed against the Camp of Islam, and not merely criminal prosecution of this or that individual identified as taking part in, or directly supporting, terrorism.
Reality must break in. It has broken in, in the minds of many who a few years ago still did not know, or refused to understand. Now it is the turn of those who presume to protect and instruct us.
There are several ways to prevent terror in the skys, first you profile, then use the sane tactics that Israel uses with their airlines, and then bring on the sniffer dogs! Dogs can find xtremely small amounts of explosives and at the same time piss off a lot of islamists, you can use the breeds with the most drool like Bloodhounds! can you see all that slober on some burqa lady LOL
Imagine if the Islamic jihadis turned all this energy and ingenuity to something constructive...
Making PETN is relatively simple. You can get step-by-step instructions on the Web replete with color how-to photos.
*** al-Tabari 8:138 ***
The real ingenuity required is to get it to detonate under atmospheric pressure, which our Moslem activist friends have yet to figure out. They've proven clever at sneaking the compound on board, but being a sneak comes naturally to Moslems, it's their way.
*** 5:102 ***
And so they're sneaking off with our liberties, one-by-one. First they ended open access to airports, then the right to wear shoes and carry laptops into terminals without Orwellian intrusion, then the right to take shaving cream and shampoo in our luggage, and now the right to take a pee when on approach at the end of a long flight.
*** 33:36 ***
But there's good news: The UN has ruled that the USA is to take 6,000 more Somalis. Hopefully most will end up in Minnesota, so that they can take good paying jobs as TSA airport security agents at MSP, making us that much safer from the predations of Moslem activists.
Here's a solution to all the controversy over full-body scanners:
Have a booth that every passenger steps into. It will not X-ray you, but will detonate any explosive device you may have on you. It would be a win-win for everyone!
Well said!
It would be a win-win for everyone!
Not so fast, miira. When I got divorced several years ago, I sat down with a yellow legal pad and pen to come up with a plan to chart my future. As if guided by the Ouija gods, my hand, trembling, wrote out the words "flight attendants."
*** Ishaq 287 ***
So I've fallen in with a clique of stewardesses (as leftist celeb David Letterman calls them), and they tell me that the Moslems not only dominate perimeter security at MSP International, they've got the back end covered too: When crews are disembarking after a flight they're jostled by teams of Somalis pouring onto the just-landed plane to clean it up before its next takeoff, sometimes in as little as a half-hour after touching the gate.
*** Ishaq 489 ***
All you need is for one Moslem activist plane cleaner to plant an altimeter-equipped PETN shaped charge somewhere on the plane, and voila!, you've got a major victory in the Cause, a good old fashioned mass murder. Old school meets high tech to claim a victory for Mohammedan justice.
http://newstime.co.nz/2010/hamas-in-their-own-voices.html
"Whoever amongst us is killed (as a martyr) will go to paradise" Sahih Bukhari (correct, authentic) Vol. 4, Book 52, Number 72
Pig Airlines is getting closer to reality...No profiling necessary...Alarmed Pig Farmer above could put his hog ads on the side of the plane...Fly safe...fly Pig...
Or you might try 'personal profiling', and just refuse to get on the plane with anyone you don't like the looks of...If your gut wrenches a little, you are probably right...
Muham source materials have many verses that if acted upon are criminal and/or terror provoking. Anyone that believes these sources to be the unquestionable word of God and is prepared to or actually practices these Muhammad given directives is a criminal or a terrorist. Because Muhammadenism is not legitimate without belief and practice of these source materials, therefore all Muhams are criminals, terrorists or at the very least 'suspected terrorist'.
Because of this tie to terroristic source materials by all Muhams, which makes all Muhams suspected terrorists, airport security should primarily focus its attention on Muhams. A case could be built to claim that only Muhams be isolated or placed on 'no fly' lists.
We fine speeders, drunks, cel phone uses, those who do not use their seatbelts and others because of the risks to societ that they pose. We take the keys away from drunks who want to drive and risk the lives of themselves and others. Do we label ourselves drunkophobics, speedophobics, celphoneuserophobics or are we simply applying good sense for society.
The practice of Muhammadenism is risking the lives of non-Muhams and even Muhams. As long as someone practices the 'global domination through any means' beliefs of Muhammad, they should not be allowed on public transportation. This logic will eventually take hold of public opinion but when? Before it is too late and Sharia law makes these actions divine instead of criminal?
How long are we going to deny the fact that all Muhams are suspected terrorists or terrorists and deal with them for what they are instead of what they pretend to be?
How many lives have to be wasted because of delay and ignorance?
When are we going to stop Muhammadenism in its Imperiaistic tracks?
When are we going to stop cooperating with this enemy? All future deaths in Non-Muham lands by Muhams are now going to bear at least partial responsibility by those governments that deny the fact that Muhammadenism is responsible for terrorists and their actions?
If another 2 or 3 or 4 hundred or thousand lives are lost by continuing to allow Muhams on our public transportation systems, planes in particular, then criminal procedings should be aimed at our current administration for acts of treason. Muhammadenism is a Global enemy and all those who aid, support, allow or ignore this enemy are collaborators in murder and other acts of violence and oppression.
This is a little like airports, that after 9/11/2001 suddenly seemed to sprout Hijab-wearing security personnel. Why, on international flights out of one major East Coast airport, a dour hijabbed lady was the first to whom one would present, upon departure on International Flights, one's passport and ticket. She was the Face of Security. Everyone in power was making damn sure that no one would ever think that Muslims, not the "violent extremists" of course, but all the other ones, the totally and permanently trustworthy ones, would have our trust in their trustworthiness amply demonstrated, at every turn. So as not to offend. So as to impress ourselves with our own tolerance and wonderfulness. So as to make sure that everyone could see just how tolerant and wonderful we were, and remain, for we will never ever allow anyone to cause us to be untrue, as some like to say (the Light Horse of ACLU, Barack Obama, and so on), to "our values."
Those "values" apparently do not include the one that biologists tell us mean a lot to living things, including poor forked man: the high value placed on survival.
A good summary of all the Islamist terrorist attacks on airlines can be found at: http://www.annaqed.com/en/content/show.aspx?aid=16263
The only way is för muslims to use the only transportation option – on the camel back! Ban them from flights and everything else so non-muslims in the free world can go about their lives! This will put tremendous pressure on muslims to change their behaviour.
The only way is för muslims to use the only transportation option – on the camel back! Ban them from flights and everything else so non-muslims in the free world can go about their lives! This will put tremendous pressure on muslims to change their behaviour.
I can see how they would secret the explosive inside their body. I am puzzled as to how the detonation system would work.
Surely there would be a visible sign of this.
I am sure the journalist has checked his sources but it just doesn't seem that practical to me.
I guess it's cheaper than educating physicians only to use them as homicide bombers. Now the Mo-Docs can bomb by proxy, repeatedly.
Plastique surgery, anyone?
Alarmed Pig Farmer makes an excellent point. There exists ample reason to suspect muslim airport employees and those sympathetic to their, um, 'cause'.
Change the solution to include every individual that enters airport property.
Every individual - whether it is an airport employee, TSA or related security agent or 3rd party service provider as well as every individual passenger who gains access to any part of the airport process must first individually step into a booth. It will not X-ray you or the contents of your belongings or cargo, but will detonate any explosive device you may have on you or carrying.
"Terrorists 'plan attack on Britain with bombs INSIDE their bodies' to foil new airport scanners," by Christopher Leake for the Mail On Sunday, January 30:
Britain is facing a new Al Qaeda terror threat from suicide 'body bombers' with explosives surgically inserted inside them.
..................
Well, at least that spares us the intermediate indignity of mandatory vaginal and anal examinations before flight, which I had assumed was the next step. Now we can go straight to x-rays, or perhaps MRIs, before being allowed to board an airplane.
This is another case of Jihadists perverting Western technology, as well—using surgical techniques designed to save lives-or at least just increase cup size—to commit mass murder.
And just think of the people who will be pulled out of line for further scrutiny! Everyone from those with coclear implants to knee replacements to massive breast enlargements!
Seriously, though—and "boob job" jokes aside, those innocent people most likely to be scrutinized under such a system would be the elderly and the disabled. Just contemplating this is pretty disheartening.
more:
And just imagine if the Islamic jihadis turned all this energy and ingenuity to something constructive, instead of devoting it all to devising new ways to murder people.
..................
Somehow, it is not Bi'da—"unlawful innovation"—to devise new ways to murder Kaffirs. But any sort of useful innovation that might enhance or prolong or save lives—or just bring a bit of innocent pleasure—is Haram.
Start by disallowing Muslim travel. No Western airlines should enter a Muslim country. No Muslims should be allowed on a western-owned airplane, in ANY capacity.
What is the likelihood that a WESTERN doctor or hospital will assist in this implanting of explosives? The hospital would be shut down by all the lawsuits that would result. Anyone who even assists in the "operation" will be finished career-wise. It will have to be done in Muslim countries. Let Muslims blow up THEIR OWN planes in THEIR OWN airspace. See how Saudis would react to a plane blowing up as it touches down near Mecca, hindering the hajj. They're not innocent in any way, shape or form.
Let the Muslim world get its act together. Until then, they should all be persona non grata in civilized countries.
It's an extreme reaction but being solicitous of Islamic feelings won't get us anywhere. It never has. Let the "peaceful" Muslims show us just how much they oppose violence in the name of allah. Until then, there are fifty six other countries in the world for you to visit.
SWEDISH VIKING: "The only way is för muslims to use the only transportation option – on the camel back!"
Imagine for a moment that the Muslims won the Battle of Tours in the 8th century...went on to conquer Europe...and there was no "West" to birth the Renaissance, the Reformation & the Enlightenment. I have little doubt that the primary means of transportation in the world today would be horse and camel.
Allah is the Devil and Muhammed is his prophet.
"I can see how they would secret the explosive inside their body. I am puzzled as to how the detonation system would work."
Diabetics need to carry syringes with them. I'm sure a good Muslim doctor can provide the necessary paperwork for his "diabetic" co-religionists.
Just thought of another way of hiding explosives - in a colostomy bag - who's going to search that?
A pencil detonator would be put into the explosive charge and the charge inserted into the rectum. The pencil detonator would be detonated by a timer.
Islam is born of the devil, given by and spread to violent sub-humans who practiced and perfected it through 1300 years of rape, torture, murder by beheading and bombing.
As morally bad as Soddom and Gomorrah was, islam is worse, because islam is not just morally perverse, it is spiritually perverse, and therefore an abomination to God Almighty.
God will settle the issue for once and for all, but not until every non-islamic has to stand up for, and defend, perhaps to the death, their own cause and beliefs.
God will win. islam will lose.
na palm, let's dispense with the "sub-human" bullshit. We have plenty of ways to criticize Islam and the behavior of Muslims without resorting such vile hatred. All you're doing is giving the enemies of this web-site ammunition with which to discredit it.
A few massacres in the skies perpetrated by followers of the religion of peace and tolerance may very well move us to what PMK mentioned above------Muslims having to travel alone on their own forms of transportation. No Muslims allowed with non-Muslims on planes, trains or buses (then of course the new problem would arise of Muslims posing as Christians, Hindus, etc.).
Seems extreme now (and so un-PC) but often times yesterday's extremes become quite ordinary events (e.g., gay couples adopting children). It will take a few or several blown apart planes and many dismembered and obliterated bodies, of course, before the sensible thing is done, and there is no guarantee that PC idiocy won't still prove supreme and disallow such separation, but I can see it happening eventually. As usual, though, Islam's murderous ways will have to cause new tragedies before more steps are taken to effectively deal with the world's biggest pain in the ass, i.e., Islam and not an implanted bomb in the buttocks.
Those "values" apparently do not include the one that biologists tell us mean a lot to living things, including poor forked man: the high value placed on survival.
If one takes a realistic look at the probability associated with Obama bin Laden's statement of intent, the Nuclear Fatwa issued on his behalf by an esteemed Saudi Scheik (or Saudi Sheik, or maybe the dude was a Saudi Shaykh, I forget which). But anyway, you combine that with the widely acknowledged probability among security analysts that “suitcase” thermonuclear bombs (adapted from Soviet tactical missiles) could very well now be available on the blackest of black markets, thus giving the Moslem activist access to a work tool that can fit into the bed of a pickup truck. If that happens, and it well may, and fairly soon, the question then becomes:
What will happen in the first few days after a thermonuclear device is detonated in a major American city? Will a surivival instinct reappear among the ruling elites of Western countries? What will be said by them? What will be done? Will it be like last time, when the President rushed into the nearest mosque to prostrate himself on a prayer rug with his face buried in the carpet and his jackass plumped high in the air? Next time, will the President also go on national TV the evening of The Day After and again declare Islam to be a religion of peace? Will all that happen again? Somebody said in here that reality needs to break in, but having that would cause a very, very awkward moment, with the President forced to flatly state what Islam really is. And would the President even know what Islam really is? Plus, as a practical matter, going on on global TV and telling the truth about Islam would surely inflame Moslems across Dar al-Islam, and cost his party the 100% voting bloc American Moslems are for Democatic Party. So, again, the question is whether after the blast President will have the nerve to tell the truth, the whole ugly truth, about what Moslems do, what they’ve done since 623 AD, what they say amongst themselves, where they’re really coming from?
I don't think so.
*** al-Tabari 8:141 ***
Pig Airlines is getting closer to reality...No profiling necessary...Alarmed Pig Farmer above could put his hog ads on the side of the plane...Fly safe...fly Pig...
Hey I like that. Frankly I've been miffed at the lack of respect for pork product ever since the CEO of Target promoted those Moslima cashiers, who had been handling pork for months, after they suddenly lawyered up and protested that they could not be made to hanle pork product. They got their promotions and a cash payment to boot, and the Moslem Men who put them up to the prank got a lotta free pub.
Shaking down a discount chain is one thing, but shaking down a $130 million Boeing 767 at 32,000 ft is quite another. Here's what my brave new infidels-only airline ad tagline would be:
*** Koran 8:12 *** Pork, the other white meat, the meat endorsed by over 35 respected security analyts.*** al-Tabari 9:69 ***
I'd post it one every overhead bin, just like those ads in municipal buses. Also, I'd direct my airline managers to have an English copy of the Koran (commented by a Moslem cleric) kept in the literature pouch on every seat.
The thing with this type of device is that the most likely detonator w/b a timer, probably a pager watch that sends the det signal to the pencil detonator in the rectal PETN. So, the thing to watch for, both at take-off and landing, is someone setting an alarm on his or her watch. While that's not the best indcator, be looking for this watch- setter to be wearing two watches, maybe two on one arm, maybe one on each ~ one for keeping time and the other for making his butt go boom... or the butt of someone else on the plane.
So, what to do? If you think the guy's setting a timer on his bomb, ~ and you should have more articulable suspicions than just seeing someone set a watch ~ use reasonable force to take the watch off the suspect, and then disable the watch by taking the battery out or cooking it in the AC microwave.
Simple solution to "blow 'em up" flying Muslims: Put every Muslim and Muslima from 6 years of age up through a 'security clearance' process. Those that pass clearance are certified to board public transportation; those who fail are forbidden, they must walk. Furthermore, Muslims with clearance must still undergo patdown search and body scan before boarding, and their luggage open searched. Enjoy your flight.
In fact, you should look for this guy at the boarding gate, too. He won't want to set the timer until he's sure the plane is going to take off.
I think most people cannot come to grips with the reality.
The reality is that we are dealing with a people who will kill and die and sacrifice their children in the process to dominate the world.
We fought them for 1400 years, and only 300 years ago they nearly succeeded in conquering Europe at the Gates of Vienna.
Now we have arrived at an age where history, religion, the nation-state no longer matter. A value-less, class-less, multiculturalist vacuum is to replace what we have with a Socialist utopia. Nature doesn't like vacuums.
"We will outbreed you with the bellies of our women…"
http://sheikyermami.com/2009/09/22/we-will-outbreed-you-with-the-bellies-of-our-women-part-3/
BillR
see 'em every day in the large public hospital where I work
white coats??? who needs Hippocrates???? what oath???
where do you start?? Used to be J1 Visas for MDs
in "underserved' areas of the US rural areas..ie al-thises
and al-thatsis MD in everytown (N or S of yours); notice
how many more Masjids (Mosques) are around....20 yrs ago
I just thought 'em strange..ie in medicine, even remember
one dude taking a course with me named Mohammed Islam,
thought..geez, what a moniker..now I know better..who'd a
thought these jimmies would be sewing bombs in their bodies
nowadays??? Realize now the Islam sickness was always there
...but MDs...???? Islam indeed is for losers ..Allahsux
as another poster succinctly states..over and out.tx JW
Can you imagine the line at the airport MRI machines?
Hugh talks about survival above, and this is a topic I have tried to discuss with people I know. What value do we place on survival these days? Nobody wants to think about it; they are so bogged down in PCMC ideology that it is not an issue for them.
Paradoxically, the death of the idea of sacrifice, an ideal which meant that our parents' generation risked their lives for a yet-unborn generation - many died for the sake of other people's children, not even their own - has led to the death of the idea of survival itself. We in the West would rather see our children die, would even die ourselves, rather than MAKE AN EFFORT to confront what is happening.
But if there is nothing worth sacrificing oneself for, then life has no value.
In fact, I believe many people are entire civilization, from laziness, nihilism, ennui: they shrug their shoulders and say "There is nothing we can do about it", meaning Islamic terrorism, even as they wearily parrot the idea that Muslims are generally fine people.
Sorry, mistake, some text somehow got deleted: (last paragraph)
Should read;
In fact, I believe many people are psychologically preparing for their own childen and themselves to die, and lose our entire civilization, from laziness, nihilism, ennui (etc)
Wellington,
You argue that if enough attacks (which includes attempted but unsuccessful attacks) of passenger airplanes happen, Western societies will be ready to implement total discrimination against Muslims within the context of public air travel, resulting in the total segregation of "Muslim only" planes distinct from non-Muslim planes.
There are some problems with this scenario:
1) Actual Western societies at the present as you know are overwhelmingly PC MC. A PC MC society would not evolve to implement total segregation only on airplanes, while continuing business as usual with allowing complete freedom to Muslims in all other venues of life throughout the West. Not only would this be logically incoherent and aesthetically absurd, it goes against a fundamental tenet of PC MC, for PC MC is trying to prevent any single instance and/or context of discrimination (and therefore, inexorably, abuse) of Muslims precisely by forbidding all discrimination of Muslims (and, before that, just to make doubly sure, even criticism of Muslims). Or, to flip it over and see the same thing from the other side: PC MC ensures protection of all Muslims from any and all discrimination by forever ensuring that no single instance and/or context of discrimination ever happens. Thus, to relent and open the way for total discrimination of Muslims only in the one context of public air travel would be exactly as unthinkable to the PC MC mind as total discrimination of all Muslims in every aspect of life (which logically leads either to total internment in camps or total deportation).
I.e., the first problem with your scenario is that it is abstracting one portion of the problem and thinking Western societies could evolve to an un-PCMC way about that, but not about all the other aspects of the same problem What about trains? buses? taxis? public buildings? shopping malls? hospitals? schools? power stations? -- you get the picture: the entire infrastructure of the West is logically threatened by Muslims -- or do we wait until each one of these portions of our infrastructure gets blown up x amount of times and x amount of our citizens get mass-murdered and maimed for life before we discriminate against Muslims specifically with regard to each portion and only that portion? That would only augment the absurdity and strangely abstract nature of the plan. Neither a PC MC society, nor an non-PC MC society, would behave that way.
2) Back to the concrete scenario of Muslim-only airlines: taking this action would only inflame Muslims to attack us more -- including innumerable ones among the millions within the West, both on land -- and in the air, where it would be all too likely for any one of all these Muslim-only planes to be turned into human missiles against our planes, our ships, our cities. So then we'd have to adopt an added policy of shooting down Muslim-only planes on sight if they cross some agreed upon lines; invariably there will be instances where a plane we shot down (full of innocent Muslims of course) would become a focal point of Islamic rage against us; etc.
All these torturous gymnastics can be avoided by the simple promotion, among us, of the goal of total discrimination against all Muslims and its logical consequences.
That is way more detail than I was anticipating. But thanks!
Wouldn't the external detonators be detectable to the alert security official? Plus it would be very difficult to use without being noticed by the passengers around you.
I understand that certain seats are preferred to maximise the chances of bringing down the plane.
I must admit that the first thought I had when I read about women being trained in Yemen to be sent out as bombers was 'tampon bombs'. Never thought of breast implants tho!
"So I've fallen in with a clique of stewardesses (as leftist celeb David Letterman calls them), and they tell me that the Moslems not only dominate perimeter security at MSP International, they've got the back end covered too: When crews are disembarking after a flight they're jostled by teams of Somalis pouring onto the just-landed plane to clean it up before its next takeoff, sometimes in as little as a half-hour after touching the gate."
It's the same in London. Beardies man the security at Luton and Gatwick, while Heathrow, the busiest airport in Europe, is right next to the borough of Hounslow, which a visitor might legitimately mistake for being in the middle of Pakistan. It's right under the landing path - and where many of Heathrow's workers come from.
But folks - if Al Q'aeda were to ever try this out, could this also work against them? Maybe aviation would take a hit, remote working would "take off" (pun intended) - and the price of oil would finally nosedive, hitting the Religion of Peace where it hurts most? And could something like this make demand skyrocket for El Al and their style of security, also ensuring a big market for "Pig Airlines" with exclusive "Infidel-class" cabins?
Many people are rightfully worried about the Muslim passengers.
Many should also be worried about the Muslim pilots.
Profile Muslims or Die Politically Correct While Flying Article
I said to my significant other a few years ago: Wonder how long it will be before the jihadis have bombs surgically inserted under their skin?
MRI scans are probably coming. The present full body scanners use millimeter waves, which allow detection of objects beneath clothing but don't penetrate into the body. MRI scanners would penetrate into the body, and could be "tuned" to detect specific substances, not only PETN but virtually any chemical compound whatsoever. They wouldn't have to actually perform full images, only detect the presence of a substance and ring a bell to indicate that a more detailed and thorough probe is warranted for which a full imaging scan could then performed.
MRI scans could be made mandatory for all passengers and luggage at check in, but they could additionally be placed at strategic locations in the luggage transfer streams. They could also be placed at the boarding entrance of any aircraft to screen airport personnel with access to the aircraft, including the hijabed cleaning crews that I see more and more during my travels.
As for detonating internally secreted explosives, there are more sophisticated approaches that don't require a physical connection via a fuse or wire dangling from the vigina or rectum. The same technology that permits capsule-sized TV cameras to return pictures of the intenstinal tract could be used in reverse to externally communicate with an explosive device sewn up inside a suicide bomber. In fact, it should be possible to devise a detonator that is tuned to the 4.3 GHz signal of the WiFi transmitter that is standard in most laptops. It's the same band used by the miniature TV intestinal tract roamers and would be an obvious approach to anyone schooled in this technology.
This is one of the most important points ever raised on this site.
This goes to the heart of the clash of civilizations and the meaning and core of that clash.
The mohammedan cultures are set up and ideologically equipped in such a way that a significant surplus of their human energy and inventiveness is dedicated to ongoing acts of destruction.
I say surplus because every culture must dedicate some energy to its capacity to fight. But the mohammedan cup runneth over so to speak.
The only active hostilities directed at the mohammedan countries are the US initiatives in Iraq and Afghanistan, and those are HIGHLY selective, supported by at least part of the native population and by and large leaves people alone to conduct life as normal.
There is not a campaign of aggression directed at the mohammedan cultures. Yet they brim over with death and destruction directed at nearly everybody else around them, not to mention each other.
The west, and I include in that much of the industrialized world which is not "western" in traditional terms, directs its energy to production.
It brims over with the production of goods. Some cultural, some purely material, every variety and every degree of quality.
The west is deadly in combat. But by and large we OUT-PRODUCE our enemies. No knock to our excellent soldiers. But we can and do produce more, better, deadlier weapons than our enemies can think up defenses against.
The west produces. The mohammedans destroy.
What is the difference? The ideology.
And it simply cannot be denied that every ideology popular in the mohammedan countries is either deeply influenced by or actually a branch of mohammedanism. It is the ideological common-denominator of that portion of the world.
And it produces an unending supply of people dedicated to destruction, pain and death.
None of the tissue thin ideological cover ups that litter the public discourse have the convincing power to even obscure that huge, simple, brute fact once it has been noticed.
Many believe (right or wrong) that the fight between Muslims and Infidels can be summed up as the following:
Muslims are willing to sacrifice their current lifestyle and lives so that their children and grandchildren will have an Islamic future.
Infidels are willing to sacrifice their children's and grandchildren's future to maintain their current lifestyle and lives, i.e., remain PC, don't profile, don't fight - just go along to get along and the children will suffer.
How did we arrive at situation where Hitler, Mein Kamp, and Nazis appear mild compared to Mo, Koran, and Muslims?
No matter how good a defense is, an offense, even an incompetent one - will eventually score.
It's way past time to go on the offensive against evil.
First, if you re-read my initial post, I did mention other forms of transportation like trains and buses (and you say Cornelius and I don't read what you have to say closely enough).
Second, PC/MC crap is going to have to end in order for the West to protect itself but such crap will not end until, as I mentioned above, there are many more dismembered, maimed and obliterated bodies, compliments of the religion of peace. Sadly, far more tragedies will have to occur before we will do the right thing and treat Islam (and Muslims) as the enemy. This functions as no contradiction of my oft-repeated assertion that under PRESENT American law no such treatment of Islam and Muslims is possible, only the punishment of specific illegal actions by specfic Muslims is what is capable of being done for now. But wait. And then watch and see how flexible the Constitution can become when it really, really has to. After all, the Constitution is not a suicide pact though I'm afraid Winston Churchill's assessment will prove all too true again------that America always does the right thing after exploring every other possibility.
Re Jew_Lover:
Sorry, no offense, but I think that old expression has been turned on its head: now its "the best defense is no offense".
Hence all the apologies - 'don't kill me, I didn't mean to offend you'.
We've only got to extend the camel fatwa which says that females are not allowed to depart farther away from their home than a camel's ride of one day (about 85 km) without being accompanied by husband or close male relatives, such as father, brother or uncle.
Just don't allow any Mahoundian to depart without the leave of our authorities. Make it hard for them to travel.
But we'll find the bombs even if they're hidden in the stomach.
I don't think MRIs would work. They are not like xrays which only take a minute or two. I had my head and neck MRI'd and it took almost half an hour.
Muslim Hubby "Gee honey, the surgery went well...Your're the bomb now"..
Your comment points to the larger problem of how Mohammedans screw up things for everyone. I look forward to the day (though I suppose I have to consider I might not live long enough to see it) when not just America, not just the West, but all of the non-Mohammedan world says literally and metaphorically to Muslims everywhere, "Enough is enough. Your religion stinks and we all know it now. It's a burden to us all and no more will we put up with any excuses about how most Muslims are peaceful, that the Koran must be taken in context, that Mohammed was a great guy, blah, blah, blah." Oh yeah, I look forward to that day. It's acomin' but not before many more unnecessary tragedies occur, courtesy of the world's worst religion of all time.
To all Muslims who have even an ounce of sense left in you, will you just give up the ghost? Islam is awful. Its founder was a brutal, psychopathic and sexually disturbed individual. He has fraud written all over him. No gettin' around this. Islam's conception of the afterlife is so primitive and childlike that it invites contempt whenever it is revealed. It has no Golden Rule for all for which eternal shame should be leveled upon it. It's the ultimate in fostering Us v. Them discord. It has stupidities all through it, like the requirement in Sharia that at least four male witnesses must substantiate a woman's charge of rape or in the Koran that Alexander the Great lived to an old age (he died at 33). Muslims of the world, I say to you that you've been had. Big time. Still time to realize this. So, realize this.
Yes, full high resolution scans take a long time, but low resolution versions of the same technology could produce partial scans, just enough to detect the presence of explosives, in much less time. Images aren't even necessary in the first pass to detect explosives, only enough information to indicate its presence. If positive detection is indicated, then a more detailed scan could be done, although in most cases a simple search would probably suffice. If that didn't resolve the problem, then full high resolution scan could be done. The point is to adapt MRI technology into a form suitable for the problem at hand. One doesn't necessarily have to be restricted to the form it presently takes in medical applications which, as you say, require a long time to process.
Wellington,
I agree with nearly everything you wrote, including that it will take many more attacks widely dispersed before the West wakes up. But the problem is not limited to planes, trains and automobiles. The problem is quite simply everywhere where Muslims can seep through -- every institution, building, process in our societies can be attacked and sabotaged with people fanatically murderous enough on the loose. Therefore, that means we must extricate all Muslims from our societies, and keep them extricated. That is what the non-Muslim world (with the West, as always, at the lead, and with America, as always, at the vanguard) will conclude must be done for its own safety. It can be done. It will be more difficult and bloodier the longer we wait. There's no reason not to champion it like canaries in a coalmine long before we get there, is there? And I maintain there is good reason to do so, since sociopolitical movements don't just sprout overnight; they take a long time of people slowly re-orienting their minds -- particularly on an issue that has as many sociocultural and psychological impediments as does this one. And people tend not to re-orient their minds when nobody around them is pointing the way.
Wellington,
I agree with nearly everything you wrote, including that it will take many more attacks widely dispersed before the West wakes up. But the problem is not limited to planes, trains and automobiles. The problem is quite simply everywhere where Muslims can seep through -- every institution, building, process in our societies can be attacked and sabotaged with people fanatically murderous enough on the loose. Therefore, that means we must extricate all Muslims from our societies, and keep them extricated. That is what the non-Muslim world (with the West, as always, at the lead, and with America, as always, at the vanguard) will conclude must be done for its own safety. It can be done. It will be more difficult and bloodier the longer we wait. There's no reason not to champion it like canaries in a coalmine long before we get there, is there? And I maintain there is good reason to do so, since sociopolitical movements don't just sprout overnight; they take a long time of people slowly re-orienting their minds -- particularly on an issue that has as many sociocultural and psychological impediments as does this one. And people don't re-orient their minds when nobody around them is pointing the way.
My suggestion is to strip-search suspecting muslims in a bomb-proof room and look for scars on buttocks or breasts. But wait! That would be racist so me must strip-search everybody.
Al Qaeda Bombers Learn from Drug Smugglers
New Technique of Storing Bomb Materials Inside Body Cavity Nearly Kills a Saudi Prince
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/28/eveningnews/main5347847.shtml?tag=untagged
"Taking a trick from the narcotics trade - which has long smuggled drugs in body cavities - Asieri had a pound of high explosives, plus a detonator inserted in his rectum."=from the article
What more can be said. This guy evaded very sophisticated security at two airports and security at a Saudi prince's palace and blew-up as he sat talking to the prince.
Most everywhere indeed, Hesperado, Muslims will prove to be a problem in Western societies (hell, they already are and it's only going to get worse). But forgive me for asking for a summary of how exactly you are going to have Muslims extricated from Western societies before much more bloodshed occurs precisely because Islam is so terrible?
I have maintained here at JW for a long time that Islam is the "perfect storm" of totalitarian ideologies and for sundry reasons, not the least of which is that it is also a religion (arguing that it isn't is an intellectual and legal dead end). I have also regularly pointed out the Constitutional and legal difficulties of dealing with Islam, as well as the many decades it will take for Islam to discreidt itself in the eyes of the vast majority of the American public and all the West.
Eventually American and Western law will adapt to the great and menacing parasite which is Mohammed's creed, but I don't see how extrication of Muslims can occur before such time unless the body politic become so disgusted with Islam that being Muslim will become such a shameful thing to be that public scorn will advance more quickly than will the law. I see such scorn and the law advancing at about an equal pace and think that it will take many decades before this great iniquity which is the Islamic faith is almost entirely vanquished. I understand and sympathize with your desire to expedite the removal of Islam from free societies but where you and I differ is that I think it will take much longer to do so than do you, for legal, psychological and societal reasons.
Dear God. What sort of a mind even conceives of such horrific things?
How can there still be any question that this ideology is anything but pure evil?
First it was the shoe bomber.
Then the underwear bomber.
Now we have the ass bomber!
Is there anything that the followers of Islam will not do to kill, maim and destroy?
There is only one way to deal with this kind of evil.
gravenimage wrote:
And just think of the people who will be pulled out of line for further scrutiny! Everyone from those with coclear implants to knee replacements to massive breast enlargements!
Seriously, though—and "boob job" jokes aside, those innocent people most likely to be scrutinized under such a system would be the elderly and the disabled. Just contemplating this is pretty disheartening.
This is already the case. I have a prosthesis with screws in my arm. Before 9/11 I never set off the metal detectors. Now I do, and every time I am subjected to what I tell my kids is "special treatment." And every time it becomes more intrusive. It's gotten to the point the screener pats down my breasts and my hips and buttocks. She passes the wand up my leg to my crotch. It's ridiculous and humiliating. My doctor never told me this would be a side effect of my cancer.
Because of the metal in my arm, I cannot go near MRI machines. So what will be if they start using MRI's? Will people like me be subject to strip searches to check for recent scars and internal examinations?
Wellington,
"I understand and sympathize with your desire to expedite the removal of Islam from free societies but where you and I differ is that I think it will take much longer to do so than do you, for legal, psychological and societal reasons."
You still don't grasp my point. The American legal reasons "evanesce" (as Spencer has lately been fond of writing) when American society concludes that the potential threat of Muslims is tantamount to the actual explosions and murders happening at the hands of Muslims. We are not talking about KKK members marching in Skokie. We are talking about KKK members mass-murdering blacks. Two different things. American laws protect the former, not the latter. And if it were concluded that the KKK has an official blueprint for mass-murdering blacks, and they are continuing to mass-murder blacks, then the KKK can be shut down under American law and all KKK members treated as ipso facto criminals. Same for Islam. Nay, worse for Islam, since Islam doesn't merely traffic in mass-murder -- but mass-murder and destruction of property in the name of sedition.
Wellington,
Another note:
"where you and I differ is that I think it will take much longer to do so than do you, for legal, psychological and societal reasons."
My timetable on when the West will wake up and start taking rational action against Muslims: probably no less than 50 to 100 years from now.
Hesperado, your posts above should be read again by every visitor here, as it clearly describes the world wide threat.
It is not just passenger air travel, although the followers of islam are using this for now to bring the west to terror. Islam feeds on our fear, and will use every and anything it can find to get a fix.
Your posts said what is to come from the followers of islam. Today passenger jets, tomorrow will most likely be one of the areas you mentioned, or perhaps something not even considered as yet.
Thinking must be removed from the box, as you are doing. As islam is clearly doing, the West must start looking at. Doing so will lead to a label on islam itself as the enemy it is. It must be seen as the real threat before progress can and will be made.
IS THAT ALL YOU PEOPLE KNOW? All you do is blow other people up, along with yourself. WHY? What in the hell are you trying to prove. BOOM! you are dead. So the hell what? How stupid can this be?
Do any of you radical idiots ever think about living and enjoying life? Do any of you ever think about raising a family with love and happiness, going places and seeing what is in this world? Oh no, that would be too much like RIGHT.
All you know is to beat your women to death, send your son's to schools that do nothing but teach hate and murder. You are breading hate and desception into your young men. Brilliant. What kind of bullshit is that?
Thank God almighty I do NOT live in your country and don't believe in your stupid ass way of life.
I will be so glad when the God I serve wipes all of you idiots OFF of the face of this earth. The sooner, the better. All of you make me totally sick to my stomach.
But we must never "profile." Semitic young men with arabic names are no more likely to blow up 'planes than are oriental women or elderly blacks.
How many more deaths will it take to make us understand that islam is inherently evil, and to realize that there is one very simple answer to the problem - no more moslems allowed on air transport and no more islamic immigration into our free and democratic countries?
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 19 : 11-16
This will lead to new levels of frisking - and molestation. You can tell the difference if you squeeze, I strongly suspect.
I am waiting to hear about the first time Madam Speaker Nancy Pelosi experiences this. Oh, wait, she's special. She'll never be frisked. Well, grant me the pleasure of imagining it, please.
{^_-}
I think I do grasp your point and it's been one of my basic ones all along. Muslims will have to act, not just convey their belief system or threaten things, in order for appropriate and decisive action to be taken. We're not there yet. Unfortunately, a bombed plane here or a Ft. Hood shooting there will not be enough (many will think it should be enough, but it won't be). It will take a lot of killings before legal reasoing "evanesces" to allow for treating Muslims like we do the KKK. But remember, even the KKK is still legal, just as being a Neo-Nazi or Marxist is. So you see we're going to have Muslims in our society for a long time. What I think will happen is not "extrication" of Muslims from America but marginalization of them, much as with the KKK, Neo-Nazis and Communists (with whom we can live without many problems, deeply erroneous in their thinking though they be). Islam will almost certainly always be legal in America but only creeps, losers and such types will be Muslim come fifty to one hundred years from now (thus our timeline does correspond). Really, I don't see much difference between our positions but if you still think so, let me know.
Hesperado,
Another note
What worries me more is if Muslims weren't so stupid and began to act like good citizens with virtually no exceptions (including desisting from constant whining and self-pity as well as putting a lid on their supremacist notions). That way the demographic jihad would prove to be far more threatening long term. As tragic as Muslims behaving badly often proves to be, it actually insures the marginalization of Islam far more likely and disallows quiet growth of the Muslim population until it reaches a point where sheer numbers would overwhelm our political, economic, educational, etc. institutions. I'm countin' on Muslim stupidity, proclivities towards violence and intolerance and sheer pettiness to see my long-term prediction (i.e., Islam as a fringe cult) come true. And I think it will come true because Muslims can't help revealing Islam for what it really is, but if they did, then we're really in trouble.
I'm not convinced that such a bombing would cause our PC government to start profiling. I'm not sure anything can save us from political correctness and multicultural madness. Truth is neither Republicans or Democrats have the stomach for it.
I think we should rename Earth and call it "Planet Meshuga". Instead of the gatherers in Central Park singing "We are the world" on "Earth Day" they can sing "We are the Meshugeneh". Maybe God can send a solar flare at "Meshuga" while everyone is celebrating "Meshuga Day". I would cheer.
What do you know? Reading the article and the succession of comments, one is filled with hope and reassurance that the world is soon going to be a better place, that the evil members of the religion of peace are going to be rounded up and that the West can once again relax into its self-absorbed, abortion supporting, sex obsessed cultural framework that for some unexplained reason seems to alienate our Muslim friends. The essential facts are that Muslims are so filled with crap that there is no room inside them for bombs or weapons of mass destruction; and that western society is developing into a morass of degradation that is hardly worth defending anyway! Have a nice day and go shopping, there is little we can do.
Cornelius: perhaps you might criticize the Apostle Peter rather than me.....
2 Peter 2:12...."...but these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption......"
I might add that even beasts treat each other better than muslims do others, even other muslims...
Find them, Isolate them, Detonate them
Frank - haha @ Planet Meshuga!!! But yup, that's basically what we're headed towards - Muslims doing anything in their power to terrorise/intimidate us; and us sane non-Muslims bending over backwards to try to appease the muslim due to a smoke veil of political correctness. Those guys have blinded us, & since we didn't nip this all in the bud, we're now paying the consequences.
Exploding body parts - good grief, ouch...
>.
Sadly, far more tragedies will have to occur before we will do the right thing and treat Islam (and Muslims) as the enemy.
This is inevitable, it has to happen one day, that everyone wakes up simultaneously and declares Islam pariah. Muslim will undergo a de-facto form of segregation socially where they will be treated with suspicion, and politically treated with circumspection. They have brought this upon themselves by re-enacting 1400 year old Jihad to make our lives dangerous and uncomfortable. We will act with according reciprocity, a non-Islamic concept, and give them back what they gave, doubled. When Islam is declared an evil religious sect, and prosecuted as such, it will no longer be fashionable or fun to be Muslim in America. As you said, the Constitution can be surprisingly flexible when it comes to protecting our human rights against the enemies of freedom. Muslims standby, and the rest of the world watch us. Do your worst, because we will do our best.
Wellington,
"But remember, even the KKK is still legal, just as being a Neo-Nazi or Marxist is."
As I said, if the KKK were blowing things up and killing people, and if the explosions and murders were escalating, and if it was clearly in the blueprint of the KKK to blow things up and kill people, the KKK would cease being legal.
"What I think will happen is not "extrication" of Muslims from America but marginalization of them, much as with the KKK, Neo-Nazis and Communists (with whom we can live without many problems, deeply erroneous in their thinking though they be)."
This isn't about erroneous thinking, deeply or otherwise; it's about blowing things up and killing people -- not in terms of isolated members acting as rogue criminals unrelated to their organization's core doctrine, but directly and explicitly related to that core doctrine.
Perhaps the following analogy will be more effective than my attempts heretofore at reiterating various permutations of my point until my face has become blue:
Consider the organization Al Qaeda. Under current American law, being a member of Al Qaeda is a crime, and anyone found on American soil, whether or not he's an American citizen, would be arrested and interned (among other things that seem to be infringing on a person's rights, like having their homes and personal property searched and/or seized, their assets frozen, etc.). Obviously, being a member of Al Qaeda involves a different kettle of fish than being a member of the KKK -- for the obvious reason that members of the KKK are not going around blowing things up and killing Americans in the name of a core doctrine that believes in continuing to blow things up and killing Americans for the sake of some grand goal of quasi-conquest/destruction. Members of Al Qaeda, on the other hand, are.
Then, if members of Al Qaeda found on American soil were discovered to number up to 3 million, all living in various cities and communities from coast to coast (and most of them American citizens) with millions more discovered to be living throughout England and Europe all of course capable of, and actively pursuing, highly complex and effective social networking to further their activity of blowing things up and killing non-Muslims -- we would have to change no laws to decide upon some collective way of managing this unusual problem, whether rounding them up to put them in camps on American soil or on some offshore islands, or deporting them to some other place.
Finally, the punch line of my analogy: Imagine that Al Qaeda = Islam. And of course, imagine the necessary corollary: that members of Al Qaeda = all Muslims. Most Jihad Watchers (as I call us folks who have woken up to the problem of Islam, though not all of us are necessarily daily readers of Jihad Watch) would have no problem with this equation. And indeed, if one thinks about it, the equation makes Islam worse than Al Qaeda -- for the simple reasons that:
1) Islam has infinitely more members
2) millions of those members are dispersed throughout the West, many already ensconced in influential and high places (academe, government, social services, hospitals, various positions in infrastructure including power supply, transportation, communications, food processing, etc.)
3) the Islam those millions of members follow continues to be blessed and protected by our own Western governments
4) as a logical corollary to #3, the vast majority of those millions of members are treated not only with the respect of citizens but accorded more deference, privileges and protections through a kind of unofficial, but no less effective, crypto-policy of PC MC.
#3 and #4 endow the millions of members with incredible opportunities to infiltrate and plan various forms of violence against us.
To reverse my analogy, imagine if Al Qaeda enjoyed advantages #1-4. And that is exactly the situation which the West in fact faces today!
I've always wanted the Muslims to shove their jihad where the sun doesn't shine.
But who flies the Muslim-only aircraft? We can't trust Muslim pilots for very good reasons, so it has to be infidels.
But under Islamic rule, kaffirs can't ride on horses or camels. Its a donkey with a wooden saddle. Yet another humiliation heaped upon us infidels by these savage barbarians.
The west is deadly in combat. But by and large we OUT-PRODUCE our enemies. No knock to our excellent soldiers. But we can and do produce more, better, deadlier weapons than our enemies can think up defenses against.
All very well, but we are hampered by our PC rules of engagement, unlike the Islamists.
Another addendum to my long post to Wellington:
I wrote:
"Most Jihad Watchers (as I call us folks who have woken up to the problem of Islam, though not all of us are necessarily daily readers of Jihad Watch) would have no problem with this equation (namely, my analogical equiation that Al Qaeda = Islam and that members of Al Qaeda = all Muslims)."
Unfortunately, over time I have become somewhat dismayed by the high numbers of JWers who apparently would not readily agree with the above equivalence.
Good news regarding defeat of mozoid libel suit -----
http://www.meforum.org/2583/islamist-lawfare-defeated-in-texas
I'm not a happy bunny with what I see in human nature. Most of these creeps (in this case Muslims convincing some guy to put a-bomb-up-his-ass-in-the-name-of-allah) are self-centered bastards shouting Allah. I prefer people who say: I'm a self-centered SOB and want what I want without using religion or Socialism or whatever to disguise things.
Convincing the bulk of the American people that al Qaaeda = Islam is the real trick, isn't it? Not there yet. Don't know if we'll ever be. If not, then my scenario of having Islam left legal but discouraged, disregarded, mocked, even despised, just as most hold Marxism, fascism, the KKK and other fringe groups in extremely low regard, will be the way things pan out. And of course, just as with the KKK and other radical, wacko groups, felonious action will be punished.
But that's quite a big hurdle you have to have the American people, lawmakers, judges, etc. come to the conclusion that al Qaeda = Islam. If I said this to the classes I teach I would lose all credibility with them immediately. Even assuming your equation is correct (and I'm sympathetic to it), few right now would accept your equation and I have to wonder if most ever would. Time will tell which way, your way or mine, Islam will cease being the threat to the Constitution and the American way of life that it surely is.
Wellington,
Of course, by my equation I don't mean that one equates Islam literally with al Qaeda itself, but rather that one regards Islam as one now regards al Qaeda (with, needless to say, peripheral structural and superficial differences aside). See the subtle difference? The latter, while still a great leap for most of Mankind, is at least less of a stretch than the former and has less traction for people to quibblingly reject the equation.
Ah, so much lies in perception. I would mention that there is an additional problem to all of this and that is that (putting aside any equations) al Qaeda is "merely" an organization and not a religion. Islam is a religion and thus has even more protection under American Constitutional law than do secular totalitarian ideologies. Even if the bulk of the American people come to regard Islam with the same venom that they regard al Qaeda (mostly if not fully deserved), there will STILL be First Amendment and other Constitutional and legal issues of paramount importance to be dealt with. Islam's best friend in America is the very framework (i.e., the Constitution) which it seeks to replace with its own appalling concepts of what constitutes true justice (Muslims who sincerely believe that Islam and the Constitution are compatible are simply deluding themselves, as are non-Muslims who think the same thing).
I'll boil it down to this. Either Islam will wither on the vine because comprehension of its many aberrancies, proclivity towards violence and its sundry dysfunctional aspects will sicken the American people over time (my scenario), or Islam will be seen as something so evil, so awful, that it will be regarded as al Qaeda is (your scenario), in which case it could be made illegal, First Amendment protection of religion notwithstanding since the Constitution is not a suicide pact except for certain liberal elites (who will be disregarded more and more whether my predicition or yours unfolds). In a way we're in untested Constitutional waters because Islam is a religion like no other and so, from a purely academic and legal point of view, I ponder with interest how the greatest of all free societies in man's history will deal with the greatest menace of a religion ever created by man. As for Western Europe, it's in deep shit and what will unfold there will be at least SOMEWHAT different from future history in America regarding the fate of Islam.
Thank you for this give and take and many others we have had. You present challenging ideas, irrespective of my sometimes disagreeing with them or having conceptions different from yours, regardless of where the right and wrong ultimately lie. Besides, we both fully comprehend Islam's worth, or more accurately the lack of it, and that is indeed great common ground to have.
Wellington,
"I would mention that there is an additional problem to all of this and that is that (putting aside any equations) al Qaeda is "merely" an organization and not a religion. Islam is a religion and thus has even more protection under American Constitutional law than do secular totalitarian ideologies."
I see that there remains a small but crucial air pocket of pressure in our ongoing debate, a little air bubble that keeps shifting, and until we pin this little air bubble down and pop it, our two respective positions in this debate wlil not have 100% contact so to speak, and we remain, at least on one aspect, talking past each other. Let me pose a question to you, involving a hypothetical situation which, like many hypothetical questions, involves the imagination making the transition from not yet to the concrete situation of that hypothetical becoming actual reality -- for you see, you do seem to harbor a contention of a not yet about Islam itself (not about the West's resistance to waking up, which is a closely related, but subtly distinct aspect), contrasted to my already. The trick has been in trying to pin down that persistent little air bubble that keeps moving in our debate.
My hypothetical scenario & question then:
Imagine there existed a religion -- let's call it Religion X -- whose central tenet is that God tells all its members they must blow up as many houses and buildings as they can in order to kill as many people as they can and destroy property with the goal of taking control of its host country -- and if members cannot do this directly, they must assist, in any way they can, those fellow members actively pursuing this central tenet. Imagine furthermore that this religion has many millions of members, widely dispersed throughout the West, who heretofore had been able to become so numerous and dispersed throughout the West by advancing in stealth fashion -- but now, in this hypothetical scenario, more and more of them are activating the central tenet: houses and buildings are being blown up, people are dying, property is being destroyed, all over America. Imagine, then, that Americans discover and realize all this and that there are no PC MC impediments that endow these millions of members of this religion with certain qualities that would make us tend to favor them and twist ourselves into knots exculpating them somehow. Finally, I wish to remind you: houses and buildings are exploding all over America, from coast to coast, and already hundreds of thousands of people have died, have been maimed for life, and untold damage to property has occurred, and the situation is only escalating.
Okay, I ask you now to please fully absorb and digest into your intellectual bloodstream the entirety of the above paragraph with all its interlocking particulars.
Now answer these two questions:
1) Would the First Amendment still protect Religion X and still protect its members from being rounded up and physically stopped?
2) Or would the government be able to criminalize and/or treat as a seditious terrorizing Enemy of the State Religion X and physically stop its members, without the First Amendment needing to be altered, and without any new Amendments needing to be passed?
If your answer to #1 is "Yes", please explain exactly how that would work.
And if your answer to #2 is "No", again, please explain exactly how that would work.
Thanks.
The First Amendment would not protect Religion X and no further laws, let alone amendments, would have to be enacted to simply treat Religion X as the criminal organization which it is. It would be so transparently clear that such a religion was never meant to be protected by the Constitution that all but a fringe amount of people would no longer argue it would be entitled to First Amendment protection. But essentially we're back to your equation whereby al-Qaeda = Islam and it's not enough that this is true, it's also important that the American people and government know that this is true. So, the real problems are a dearth of knowledge and the absence of correct perception.
I've put it to many people, even to some students I have taught, a slightly different way. Imagine there are ten ideologies, numbered one through ten, and ideology six produces 99% of the violent adherents of these ten ideologies and the other nine ideologies combined produce the other 1% of violent believers. Wouldn't one understandably think there is something wrong with ideology six, even without looking at its tenets? Put this way, many who have otherwise resisted condemning Islam (or no more so than any other religion) admit that ideology six would indeed almost certainly be really screwed up compared to the other nine. But Islam isn't ideology six or Religion X but Islam and therein lies the real problem, the unwillingess to observe rather than than just see (a distinction Sherlock Holmes often liked to make).
Now, if we can only convince the American people and government of just how iniquitous Islam is, then your scenario will work out, but I will predict to you here that Islam will never be viewed as Religion X or ideology six and thus First Amendment protection will continue to shield it for a long time to come at the same time it becomes more and more despised by more and more non-Muslims. It will also be mocked and contained in many ways (e.g, legal pretexts of most any kind will be found to prevent more Muslim immigration to America). Millions of Muslims, particularly female Muslims, will just leave the damn religion and eventually it will become as marginal a belief system as are Marxism and Nazism (but still protected under the First Amendment).
Actually, I would prefer your scenario to be the one that unfolds but I think it will be mine. I now see a perfect understanding between us on this issue with us only disagreeing on whether Islam will ever be looked upon as the equivalent of Religion X. I say it won't but hope it would. You say it will and expect it to occur. Do we understand one another now? Let me know.
THis has apparently been tried using the anal cavity.
http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/Rectum-Suicide-Bomber-10-6-2009.asp
According to this article, the rectal bomber tried to assinate the Assistant Interior Minister of Saudi Arabia, Prince Muhammad bin Nayef, but failed.
Wellington,
"The First Amendment would not protect Religion X and no further laws, let alone amendments, would have to be enacted to simply treat Religion X as the criminal organization which it is."
Then you see it's not at bottom a legal issue concerning the First Amendment, since Religion X is a religion, but its religion status does not make it immune from its criminal status trumping its religion status. The way you have been heretofore arguing this, you seemed to be saying that the First Amendment would forever protect any religion's religion status from ever being trumped by another status by which that religion and its members could be criminalized and/or redefined as an enemy of the state. Now you are agreeing that it's ultimately a matter of public perception, not law. If it were a matter of law, then no public perception (and no amount of dangerous behavior by the religion and its members) could ever legally allow for that trumping of a religion's religion status by another status.
Agreed. I have never meant to argue that the First Amendment would protect anything passing itself off as a religion, but rather that the First Amendment will definitely protect Islam well into the foreseeable future, perhaps forever (and thus it is very much a legal and Constitutional issue where the particular religion of Islam is concerned----unless a truly dramatically different perception of Islam, which you are more sanguine than I am will occur, occurs). We're dealing with high theory here but that's OK. Doing so has helped clarify things. May I conclude we have accord at last on this issue?
Wellington,
Thanks for your patience with all my questions. I see we're mostly on the same page, except the matter of whether and when Islam will be recognized throughout the West as an international enemy of the free world.