"Arab-Americans," they're called here, but their Arabness is beside the point. Their jihadist sympathies come through loud and clear, even despite the usual media cluelessness and obfuscation. Click on the sweatshirt image for video. "Sweatshirt Sparks School Controversy: Hoodie Contains Image Of World Trade Center Towers," from ClickOnDetroit.com, January 5 (thanks to Logans Warning):
DEARBORN, Mich. -- About 15 Arab-American students at Edsel Ford High School are in trouble over a sweatshirt they had made over the holiday break.On the back of the sweatshirt, the number 11 is made to look like the World Trade Center Towers. The school's mascot, a thunderbird, is seen flying toward the number.
Watch: Sweatshirts Sparks Controversy
Under the graphic, a tagline reads, "You can't bring us down."
The students wore the hooded sweatshirts to school Monday. They were immediately sent to the principal's office.
The sweatshirts were confiscated.
"What took place here today was an inappropriate, distasteful act," said David Mustonen, a spokesman for Dearborn Schools. "(It was) totally inappropriate, totally disrespectful, and they just were not thinking."
The students told the principal they didn't mean any harm by having the sweatshirts made....
Of course not!
The hoodies read, "You can't bring us down."
Two comments,
Seems to me that gravity did a fine job of bringing the so-called "Magnificent 19" down quickly enough.
When you're at the bottom of the barrel, genes, intelligence, & any number of negative human attributes, you're right, you can't go down any further.
Can you tell us exactly how these shirts glorify the September 11th attacks?
Can you also tell us if students have a right to wear such shirts irrespective of whether or not they do?
Im interested in your response particularly given your stated positions on free speech and stance against censorship and also because you found nothing offensive about fireworks depicting arabs under a stealth bomber with the caption "run hadji run"
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/07/us-superheroes-teaming-with-muslim-heroes-fireworks-depicting-uncle-sam-fighting-muslims-withdrawn.html
Can you tell us exactly how these shirts glorify the September 11th attacks?
I'd be surprised if you weren't wearing such a shirt right now.
mp11, I am not sure if your first question is serious. Just look at the shirt. The ones are made to look like the towers, the schools mascot like the plane and the caption "You can't bring us down" is a statement of support of jihadist terrorism.
No, students don't have the right to wear shirts that support the murder of thousands of innocent Americans. Free speech does not include the right to support murder.
mp11 - the Constitution is not a suicide pact.
Is that guy who said "They're adolescents, they just weren't thinking" for real? What a spoon. No wonder the US and the West is in so much trouble because too many Westerners think like that buffoon.
I like knowing where people stand on issues so that when someone yells "fire!," I know who to trample (it was an accident) on the way to safety, freedom, life, happiness, etc. Bad taste, yes. But they showed their cards.
(It was) totally inappropriate, totally disrespectful, and they just were not thinking."
Is that it? Is that the end of the matter, simply confiscating those hiideous t-shirts? Is that what those students deserved? Didn't they deserve to be expelled from the school? Don't they deserve to have what they did on their permanent record, so that college admissions committees can find out about it. Can we, even now, obtain their names, so that those names could be easily retrievable by those who might wish to know about these "15 Arab-American" students in Dearborn when, if, they do apply to college, or for jobs, or for anything at all. Yes, I know they will of course be snapped up by the American government to work in the C.I.A., where their t-shirts will simply be regarded as a harmless prank, a youthful indiscretion, not to be held against them, and besides, won't they be even better at fooling the enemy within if they have shown they can identify with that enemy, even share so many of that enemy's views? Why of course it does. List them, give us their names, so they can be forwarded to the FBI and CIA and they can all be offered jobs, immediately upon graduation.
We send them to school..buy them books and all they do is eat the covers.
At least they are admitting that Muslims were responsible
for 9/11.This should make the deniers mad.
They aren't Arab-Americans, they're Jihadi-Americans. It's perversity, not diversity.
Speaking of "American" Muslims, it seems that yet another self-proclaimed moderate Muslim has turned out to be not quite so moderate after all. Patrick Poole has the scoop on Yasir Qadhi, an old friend of the Christmas Day Knicker Bomber.
A Muslim poster above seems to think that mere invocation of the phrase "freedom of speech" means that anything, anytime, can be uttered. But that has never been the case, and all of Constitutional adjudication about the Free Speech clause has been necessary precisely because there is no absolutist interpretation of that clause that has been accepted. There have been, along the way, various formulations designed to protect free speech but always within intelligent, and intelligible, limits. He no doubt has heard of at least one -- the "Clear and Present Danger" test formulated by Holmes (and Brandeis) in a series of cases, beginning with some dissents and then becoming the accepted test.
Judge Hand offered an additional consideration: the gravity of the potential harm multiplied by its likelihood.
There were still later modifications, and roughly what we have now is what is called the Brandenberg Test, which allows for the forbidding, by the government, of any incitement of "imminent, lawless violence." Of course the Free Speech Clause does not apply to private parties. Had these students been in a private high school or college, they could have been, and one hopes would have been, promptly dismissed. Nor is there any reason, in any private workplace, why the expression of such sentiments need be tolerated for one instant.
But it is clear that the new and unprecedented threat from adherents of Islam within this country is going to have to be dealt with by Constitutional adjudication.
It will, in the first place, have to rethink the Brandenberg Test and whether it is sufficient. That has to do with the Free Speech Clause.
But there are other matters, pertaining to the two clauses -- Free Exercise and Establishment -- having to do with religion, that will have at long last to be examined. Who decides what is a "religion"? What features of Islam entitle us to regard it as far more than a religion and, rather, as a Total Belief-System with a politics, and a geopolitics, that represent a permenent threat to all non-Muslims, to all, that is, who are Kaffirs?
It will be fascinating to see what the Supreme Court does. I can't wait for the cases to happen, and then to percolate upward, and onward.
My little friend, they were not wearing those sweatshirts on a public square, but inside a public school. Also, the students involved are not denying the intent behind the slogans, but simply stated in an unconvinding way that they meant no harm. Gang colors, incitements to kill groups of people, and other such things are regularly banned from public schools. Publicly supported schools (K-12)are not a free speech forum, but educational institutions for minors. Also, you do seem to be quite enamored with jihad and genocide. Would you like to elaborate on thst further?
The core of mp11's question still needs answering. From downunder I am happy to be corrected by someone more familiar with your First Amendment, but is not the action of the principal likely covered under the "clear and present danger" doctrine, where the Supreme Court refined Schenck with the Brandenburg decision?
One of the pillars of Western society, besides the obvious example of free speech, is the citizen's willing adherence to an objective rule of law. From the video provided, it is clear that the students interviewed were very upset, but had faith in the school administation dealing calmly and fairly with an extremely provocative action. They believed in the rule of law. Presenting a similar provocation in a Muslim country, infidel students would very likely have been badly injured or killed. Rule of law be damned.
This does not fully answer the objection that upset feelings and an implicit "heckler's veto" is lurking in there somewhere, and that aspect needs to be more fully addressed.
But bluntly, I believe mp11's question is motivated more by "rights jihad" than any fine considerations for legal consistency.
I wonder what the reaction of our friend would be to a Motoon T-shirt. If you want to deal in truth, let's.
"Mohammed, slaveholder, terrorizing, mass murdering, paedophile heretic" can be printed on shirts, also.
And I can guarantee you that those teen jihadis wearing the 9/11 "glory days" shirts would react quite violently to seeing a depiction of Mo thusly.
Mohammed, slaveholder, terrorizing, mass murdering, paedophile heretic"
Mohammed was all of those, plus a misogynist, a liar and a thief.
And yet when a Teddy Bear gets named mohammed....
Oh, and "...didn't understand the significance of what they were wearing..."
Suuuuure!
For a perfect ice-breaker T-shirt I can recommend :Your 'Perfect Man', mohammed was a pedophile, misogynist, murderer, liar, maniac, thief, parasite etc.
A little OT:
Pakistan: Taliban brainwashes kids with visions of virgins
How teenagers were lured by Taliban
I'm a firm believer in free speech. However, schools have always had the right to enforce a certain dress code. In most public places, wear whatever you want - if I don't like it, I can leave. However, the other students don't have the option to pick up and leave school. School administrators have a certain obligation to stand up for all students.
... they just were not thinking.
Certainly the authorities who made this observation hope so. But the kids were thinking alright, to the extent Moslems "think" in the manner experienced by Infidels.
*** 92:8 ***
The kids were thinking, and they're burning with the dark pleasure that evil thoughts build.
*** 33:21 ***
And the authorities were thinking, too. They were thinking how they should tell the public this was just a high school prank, an isolated incident, and it just can't be that all Moslems think this way, and man wouldn't that be a dangerous bummer, and the authorities sure hope the public buys into their obfuscatory bullcrap, otherwise there will have to be some very nasty town hall meetings held.
Pretty audacious, even for high school jihadis.
Perhaps they are emboldened by Obama's apparent weakness, or could it be because he's one of them?
Here's what the punks should have worn
Nice work, Bosch!
Here's my favorite: Imagine...
I wonder if the author is 100% sure that these "Arab-American" kids are even all muslims. There are many Arab Christians in the Detroit area.
@mp11 and any other Taquiyya and Hypocrisy-spouting Muslim Trolls here: I'm wearing my Kurt Westergaard "Mo's Da Bomb" t-shirt. I intend to wear it all day tommorow. It is a symbol of my loathing of Mohammed, and of Islam and all that it stands for. Think I could walk into a mosque wearing it and come out alive? Don't speak the words "free speech" to me if you are a "devout" Muslim.
Does anyone know what the LOUI stands for? (Somehow I doubt that it just means they can't spell "Louie Louie" right.)
lilredbird/rra
Wow...that's very weird.
My dad went to a highschool in Detroit, Michigan, and I'm sure he'd be shocked as to what's happening in highschools in his former home state.
Also, I'd like everyone to know of a contest that has started. (Not many people were able to see the previous post.
Check out: http://ourislamic.com/forums/24-announcements/1343-contest-1000-total-in-prizes.html#1343
There are $1,000 in total prizes (for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place).
Just wondering..what does "Loui" mean? I think it has something to do with the attack of 9/11, but I can't seem to remember :(!
Mohammed was all of those, plus a misogynist, a liar and a thief.
You left out about 15 of his other fine qualities, Spirit.
*** 92:8 ***
Anybody have a comprehensive list?
While I am in favor of free speech, that is inappropriate for school.
Why would Muslim students chose to make themselves targets?
These people, who fear "backlash" at every turn seem to have no problem provoking it.
I would like to see some punk-assed teens wear that in my neighborhood.
There are consequences to provocative behavior.
Re-education in the form of cultural sensitivity training might be a good idea here.
These teens are not "sensitive" to American culture and sensibilities.
They are ignorant and classes directed at Muslim youth should help tremendously making them more tolerant and accepting of others here in a plural society.
It is time non-Muslims stop taking classes on being tolerant of Islam, and Muslims be compelled to take classes learning to be tolerant of Christian, Jews, Pagans,and the American constitution.
Investigate them, their parents and associates.
Apply 18 USC Chapter 115 - Treason, Sedition, and Subversive Activities, as appropriate.
If we can't recognize treason, sedition or subversive activities, we are doomed.
What gets me is that this is brushed off as, oh well...they're only teenagers...not a big deal.
It IS a big deal. Muslims are not stupid. I wish the powers that be would understand this. They are methodical and smart, in order to further their cause.
Like that stupid rule the TSA came out with, no going to the bathroom 60 minutes before landing. Well, 61 minutes before landing guess who would be heading to the bathroom?
I loved how choked O was today in his news conference. I think he's really angry at the muslims for not playing nice like he asked them to.
If you watch the video, you can see even the other kids don't buy the excuse that the arabs didn't know what they were doing. The other kids seemed to understand quite well what they were doing.
I wonder what their "clique" was about? Jihadi Pride perhaps?
53. There is presently not enough spiritual wisdom among the global non-Muslim population to provide enough resistance to Islamic Imperialism in the same way that there is or was not enough environmental wisdom to prevent; the polluting of rivers, lakes, oceans, air, land and health; deforestation; extinctions of species; global warming; slavery; child labor; abuse of women; etc. We are now scrambling to produce enough environmentally friendly sources of fuel and conservation methods to prevent more of the same while others are increasing demand for toxic fuels and destruction of environments. By the time the general non-Muslim world realizes that it is already in a battle for ideological freedom with all of Islam and not simply terrorists and/or extremists, it will be too late. Islam is already deeply enmeshed into the fabric of too many countries and committed to die for their beliefs rather than change for a simple resolution. Non-Muslims are in a Global Civil War with Islam whether they are aware of it or not. This war that they are not aware of is not a war against Islamic terrorism or extremism, it is a war with all of Islam that is covertly (where not the majority) and overtly (where in the majority) being waged by all Muslims everywhere on this planet. Every major Muslim country and every individual Muslim supports global Jihad or Imperialism in whatever way they can, including financing so-called terrorism. Support for global Jihad (not internal Jihad) is not only a duty for all Muslims; it is an obligation or mandatory service. The non-Muslim world must identify Islam itself (Muhammad, the Koran and Hadith) as a major stumbling block among others to harmonious loving union with all in the Omniverse or GOD. - Battling small insurgencies and/or individual terrorists with huge military resources is merely training Islam and draining its opponents. Muslims are spending pennies for: suicide bombers who are eager to die, flight lessons and roadside bombs relative to the billions or trillions that large democracies, communists and capitalists are spending on air, land and sea machinery and weapons along with political, social, medical, nutritional and financial support for whole countries. It does not take much mathematical skill to figure out that Muslims are already winning this phase of Global Jihad. Financial exhaustion and decline from within is the goal of terrorism and it will be the result if non-Muslims do not stop squandering resources on terrorist pruning without cutting the roots of Islamic terror which are Muhammad, the Koran and Hadith. - It is a faulty means of eliminating terrorism by killing and arresting Muslim terrorists. This is political pruning of the Islamic Bush that only makes it stronger. The root, foundation or the heart of Islam is its founder Muhammad and his recorded messages and actions that are written in the Koran and Hadiths. These documents are the source of Islamic terror tactics. These must be surgically removed through simply exposing the perversion of spiritual principles and ideals these root sources represent before they need to be brutally ripped up from their philosophically barren soil or before there is no resistance available and non-Muslims are forced to convert or be killed. - Muslims in general are not at fault; it is the belief system that they are imprisoned in. Most have been born into a belief system that will kill them for leaving it. It is an error to kill terrorists and think that this will cure the global cancer of Islam. Forcing or trying to force someone to believe something against their will is a spiritual crime that often creates deeper entrenchment and resistance in some and spiritual dullness in others. On the other hand most Muslims would rather die than convert into peaceful loving humans. Muslims that insist on killing and/or deceiving others and/or dying rather than living peacefully with others shall be given the choice between heaven in the afterlife or harmonious loving union in this life. Muslims that want to live and learn a better way shall be reeducated to relieve them and the rest of the world of the bondage they are in by showing them the errors of Islam and how to live in harmonious Omniversal loving unity and forgiveness with humanity and nature. - You are either for Islam or you are against it. If you are for it then become a Muslim. If you are against it then do whatever you can to expose its fictitious nature and danger to the rest of the non-Muslim world. Being indifferent or supportive is a death sentence for the non-Islamic world. - Islam is becoming increasingly desperate and determined to achieve world domination. Muslims have been escalating their efforts for control since global financing through oil revenues began in the human arenas of religion, politics, economics, sociology, public opinion, military, food supply and others. Islam is creating a global situation where apocalyptic visions from the Biblical Book of Revelation are about to become a reality if intelligent preventative measures are not taken immediately. True Muslims are eager to die and/or kill for their beliefs. - Jawaharlal Nehru (1889-1964) “Long experience has taught us that it is dangerous in the interest of truth to suppress opinions and ideas; it has further taught us that it is foolish to imagine that we can do so. It is far easier to meet an evil in the open and defeat it in fair combat in people’s minds, than to drive it underground and have no hold on it or proper approach to it. Evil flourishes far more in the shadows than in the light of day.” - A Global trial of Islam’s source material is necessary for the general world population to understand what Islam is proposing in its pursuit of Global domination. Putting individual Muslims or Islamic groups on trial is a waste of time and resources. The Islamic texts from which Muslims in conflict with the rest of humanity get their Allah driven ‘must do’ directions are the real sources of terrorism and conflict. The Koran, Hadiths and Muhammad are what should be focused on in order to deal with Islam appropriately. This trial should be organized as soon as possible to minimize the casualties inherent in Islamic Imperialism or Manifest Destiny. - Because Islamic texts prescribe Islamic conquest of the entire world with Allah and Muhammad given directions to kill non-Muslims, the non-Muslim world must intelligently debate whether they wish to become Muslims or eliminate it by taking it out of the shadows and bringing its motives and goals into view of all humanity. Islamic Imperialism’s threat of global domination has become too large to ignore. It must be accepted or reduced to a commonly understood fiction.
Hugh's suggestions for punishment -- expulsion, marks on their school records, continued monitoring by intelligence based on their names -- need to be done at the very least for all Muslims, in the U.S.A., as well as everywhere throughout the West; and not merely for the tiny handful of Muslims who are stupid and/or brazen enough to advertise their terrorist support as these students did.
Or, better yet -- and ultimately less costly in terms of money, red tape and blood -- would be total deportation and then global quarantine of all Muslims within that Plenty o' Land loosely known as the Dar-al-Islam.
Patrick, that's why I believe that it's every non-moslem's job to rile up moslems and expose them for the bigoted, totalitarian, psychotic, barely evolved thugs that they are.
If we all did something as easy as wearing an T-shirt with lettering described above you'd soon find that assaults on non-moslems would become an issue.
I do it and I've yet to lose a debate or the inevitable fight.
This incident occurred during school hours in a public school, and not on publc street corner. Public and private schools are responsible for instructing and supervising underaged children, and are not a free speech forum.
If they wanted to make a statement they should make sweatshirts out of this:
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb45/paulscary/Throwing_a_Grenadecopy.jpg
One more thing...They are Arab?
So what?
Are they Christian or Muslim?
I do wish the media would not use the word Arab to describe Muslim supremacists.
All high schools have policies that ban clothing that is distracting and offensive.
They most certainly can wear them outside the school. In the USA you have the right to be offended. Of course the hoodies are provocative and would attract attention, most likely negative, much like white robes with pointy hats.
Public and private schools are responsible for instructing and supervising underaged children, and are not a free speech forum."
I agree, they should not be. But is there any case or other law that affirms this?
"Public and private schools are responsible for instructing and supervising underaged children, and are not a free speech forum."
Perhaps I hit the "Submit" button too hastily there (Robert, could we perhaps have "Send" instead? There are enough people out there already demanding we submit).
As part of instructing children (in PC-speak "facilitating learning") it is essential that both teachers and students have freedom to express their ideas. But clearly schools will be subject to some limitations. The question is - do these sweatshirts fall within those limitations?
Much could be said here. A lot of it already has been. Here's my two cents worth.
First, freedom of speech does not extend to the same degree for those in public school as to the population at large. As examples, it would be legal and Constitutionally protected for a fool to wear a sweatshirt that read "Down with the Constitution of the United States" or "Adolf Hitler was right." But that same fool wouldn't have the right to wear such an article of clothing in a school setting (or if an employee at some business) because dress codes rarely violate Constitutional rights.
Second, this makes for another good reason why uniforms should be mandatory in all public as well as private schools.
Third, the "clear and present danger" test, first appearing in the 1919 Schenck case, was later modified by subsequent cases, including the 1969 Brandenburg case, to mean that speech must constitute an immenent incitement to illegal action for it to be Constitutionally disallowed to the public at large. Hugh has already mentioned this above, as well as thoughfully maintaining that new judicial ground must be explored to deal with the menace which Islam presents anew to the American nation. Again we can see what a pain in the ass Islam is to freedom, equality under the law and the preservation of the American Constitution. Ah yes, a religion like no other.
When 15 muslims wear a garment which is hateful, offensive or seen as damaging by the majority of the student body, which the school board and principal rule as inappropriate or offensive or hurtful, then the offenders should be charged with HATE CRIME and prosecuted and punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Sorry muslims. There is no free speech protection for shouting fire in a crowded theater.
Respectfully, I disagree with you. All hate crime legislation is bogus because it punishes motive and not the act. When any government gets into matters of thought as reason for punishment, this in itself is dipositive of totalitarian inclinations. You do not have to destroy freedom in order to preserve it. There are other, better, smarter ways to punish wrongdoing and to minimize stupid, intolerant, hateful thinking.
Expelling them does nothing except give them freedom from school.
A better punishment?
Make them research the September 11th attack. I mean background research on every person that died; who was left behind, what has happened to those loved ones since, the number of children forever changed by the lose of a parent.
Perhaps then they would understand the impact of what happened on that day.
cjh
With all due respect, while I see your point and agree with you in principal, the legislators, states and courts have decided to establish hate crime laws, whether one agrees or disagrees with them, used effectively by Jihadists to their advantage. What remains to be seen is if the authorities use the same yardstick to prosecute the offenders in this particular case, or they choose to apply a two tiered system of justice due to political correctness or some other phony "black-lash" excuses.
Most would agree if 15 white students were to wear offensive shirts with the "N" words to school, they would be facing hate crime charges, expulsion, and possible jail/detention camp time. They would not be handled with cake gloves as is this case.
I agree, Wellington, but in countries where hate speech laws do exist, Muslims should be punished fully under them whenever hateful crap falls out of their mouths, or they pull stunts like this.
Once they understand that hate speech laws also apply to THEM, they would certainly get their government friends to rethink the whole idea of such laws.
MBR, restrictions on schoolwear is common in the South, though administered in a rather uneven way. The "Rebel Flag" is generally prohibited as part of a school wardrobe, but the large "X" denoting Malcolm X (cohort of Louis Farakhan) is not. OTOH, black students with portions of their hair dyed red, green, blue, yellow, etc are subject to disciplinary action for having disruptive hair since it isn't a "natural color". Last time I noticed, blonde and red are natural hair colors, and who hasn't been stuck behind a "blue-hair" while driving? It seems to hold up in court, too, just as requiring students to wear a particular school uniform does.
My conclusion? It isn't the hair or clothing that is disruptive or hateful.....it is the students/people who own those things that are disruptive. Their behavior while wearing such items is what really determines whether they are offensive mockeries or solemn reminders.
I find it very difficult to believe that these students couldn't foresee the impact that their design would have. They are old enough to have known better. I support the idea that they should be punished and tracked. Deport those who were born overseas. These students are not the sort of diversity that America will benefit from.
"Again we can see what a pain in the ass Islam is to freedom, equality under the law and the preservation of the American Constitution."
Islam only remains a pain because the threshhold of its definition as deadly sedition -- and of the necessary logical corollary, the definition of all Muslims as supporters (unless passing a stringent test perhaps) of Islam so defined -- remains set at a higher bar than rationality would permit. That maintenance of the threshhold is not relevant to the fact that an organization agreed to be fomenting and plotting and nourishing deadly sedition -- and all its supporters (unless passing a stringent test perhaps) -- would, perfectly Constitutionally, have all its / their Constitutional rights revoked. Imagine members of an organization in the U.S. right now who were deemed to be no less dangerous than were Julius and Ethel Rosenberg when they were executed by the United States government.
The limitation does not reside in the law; it resides in our definition, and apprehension, of who and what the enemy is. Once the latter is rationally cleared up, the law will serve as no impediment.
"...they just were not thinking."
Then what were the doing Mr. Mustonen? are we to believe that their minds were blank,that all 15 of them were running on automatic, without any thought of what they were creating?
Sounds like another torturous attempt by a public official to excuse the murderous mind-set of Muslims in this country.
Don't be suprised, sir, when, at some future date, at least one of your unthinking students unthinkingly murders a couple dozen innocent Americans in a Jihad operation.
I suppose it would be to much to ask why their parents weren't called in and told to take their little babies and get the hell out of the school.
It's my guess that if these were White Anglo students making a statment about Islamic terrorism, Eric Holder would fall on them like a ton of bricks.
Well, again with respect I reply. I see your point of using bad law against bad people, and there's some merit to it, but I would in the final analysis argue against indulging bad ideas, even though codified in the legal system. Rather peripherally, obliquely, deal with these foolish scoundrels by using good ideas and good law against them.
As examples, enforce dress codes, punish for the non-adherenece of such, use ridicule and the truth to expose malicious, false and stupid ideas. After all, Nazi and Marxist ideology are still legal in this country to publicize, to give voice to. But the main reason why there are few Nazis or Marxists anywhere to be found in America, except among the fringe element (or in academia respecting Karl Marx's many fallacious ideas), is not because they have been made illegal ideologies to express, but rather because the light of truth and mockery have taken their toll on these deeply erroneous assessments of the human condition. And so it should be with Islam and those who champion its cause. Nothing will more destroy the totalitarian system which is the Islamic faith than the exposure of it.
I like the notion of making these students have to interact with families of those who those died in the 9-11 attacks as part of their sensitivity punishment. Better yet, pull them from their families since their first tier of indoctrination is most likely occurring at home, and have them assigned to Jewish, Christian or Hindu families to learn tolerance and the impact of intolerance.
The other corrective measure would be to have a course in the school curriculum that teaches about all of the atrocities that have been committed and sanctioned by the world's major religions. It would be imperative for this course to point out how some religions have evolved and how Islam remains rooted in the thinking of of the 7th and 8th centuries. This would be a history of religion and how its human interpretation has caused so much death and misery over the centuries. The suras that insight violence against other religions are Islam's equivalent of the Nazi "Gott Mitt Uns" belt buckles.
The freedom of expression and the freedom to worship a God of your own understanding need defending but they do have limits and context that must be enforced for the benefits of all.
Proud to be a citizen of the Free World.
I like the notion of making these students have to interact with families of those who those died in the 9-11 attacks as part of their sensitivity punishment. Better yet, pull them from their families since their first tier of indoctrination is most likely occurring at home, and have them assigned to Jewish, Christian or Hindu families to learn tolerance and the impact of intolerance.
The other corrective measure would be to have a course in the school curriculum that teaches about all of the atrocities that have been committed and sanctioned by the world's major religions. It would be imperative for this course to point out how some religions have evolved and how Islam remains rooted in the thinking of of the 7th and 8th centuries. This would be a history of religion and how its human interpretation has caused so much death and misery over the centuries. The suras that insight violence against other religions are Islam's equivalent of the Nazi "Gott Mitt Uns" belt buckles.
The freedom of expression and the freedom to worship a God of your own understanding need defending but they do have limits and context that must be enforced for the benefits of all.
Proud to be a citizen of the Free World.
With respect, Hesperado, you prove my basic point by bringing up the Rosenbergs. They were punished for their acts, not their thoughts. We must be very careful in this country not to punish people for their ideas, but only for their actions.
As an example, Marxism foments and plots and nourishes "deadly sedition" against the United States and its Constitution. Always has. But being a Marxist in this country is not a crime. Acting upon many Marxist ideas is. And so it should be with Islam or any other totalitarian ideology. Meanwhile, we should find any legal and Constitutional reasoning necessary (such can always be found) to virtually end Muslim immigration to the US (I'm sure we agree on this), to curtail numerous Islamic activities (again, not thoughts) of those Muslims already here in America and to continue to reveal Islam to the American public at large for what it really is (this is the most important factor).
I'm confident that as Islam becomes more and more known to the American and Western populace at large, it will become more and more discredited, even despised. Why, it's already happening, as Hugh has mentioned on several occasions here at JW (hope he doesn't mind my invoking him here). All we need is a heavy dose of freedom, common sense and the Constitution and Islam is a goner. Yeah, that's all we need. We don't have to shut Islam down; we just have to expose it for what it is.
I like the notion of making these students have to interact with families of those who those died in the 9-11 attacks as part of their sensitivity punishment. Better yet, pull them from their families since their first tier of indoctrination is most likely occurring at home, and have them assigned to Jewish, Christian or Hindu families to learn tolerance and the impact of intolerance.
The other corrective measure would be to have a course in the school curriculum that teaches about all of the atrocities that have been committed and sanctioned by the world's major religions. It would be imperative for this course to point out how some religions have evolved and how Islam remains rooted in the thinking of of the 7th and 8th centuries. This would be a history of religion and how its human interpretation has caused so much death and misery over the centuries. The suras that insight violence against other religions are Islam's equivalent of the Nazi "Gott Mitt Uns" belt buckles.
The freedom of expression and the freedom to worship a God of your own understanding need defending but they do have limits and context that must be enforced for the benefits of all.
Proud to be a citizen of the Free World.
Voltaire's solution?
Well, ultimately I'm a pragmatist, Spirit Wolf. So, whatever works as long as freedom is not too compromised, being the hallmark of the West as it is.
Patrick,
I like your comment. Would you allow it to be reposted, with attribution?
The Death of Liberty Begins with Submission
CD
Can you imagine the wailing and whining if we had a t-shirt of Mecca and Medina with a nuke heading for each place?
I remember in the USMC a t-shirt I used to have after the Beirut bombings of our troops that said, 'Nuke 'em and shoot 'em in the dark' (or something to that effect. I bet the military is too cowardly to let the troops wear something like that anymore.
Wellington,
"We must be very careful in this country not to punish people for their ideas, but only for their actions.
As an example, Marxism foments and plots and nourishes "deadly sedition" against the United States and its Constitution. Always has. But being a Marxist in this country is not a crime. Acting upon many Marxist ideas is."
This is to irrationally lump two sets of seditious ideas -- Marxism and Islam -- into the same category. What is irrational is the context by which you lump them together -- a context from which all the significant differences in seditious ideas have been apparently eliminated (for if they were retained, I don't think you would be doing the lumping together). With Muslims, their ideas are leading to actual mass-murders and actual plots to mass-murder; these actual and plotted attacks are escalating; and their goal is destruction of the U.S.A. and its replacement with a government inimical to all our values. While Marxism has a similar goal, it is not fomenting actual and plotted attacks. Therefore, Marxism fits your standard of a pernicious idea that if put into concrete practice, would issue in para-military attacks and plotted attacks on us all over the place -- but it is not being put into practice like that; while Islam is. Islam thus rises to a higher level of exigency, a higher level of deadliness, where potential attacks must be the focus of our attention to prevent them. And the thing leading directly to the actual attacks, the plotted attacks -- and the potential attacks which should be regarded as possessing a deadly likelihood -- is precisely the ideas of Islam. Therefore, the ideas of Islam are no longer merely bad ideas that we should despise: they are directly related to attacks on us, and so to stop the attacks -- which could become extremely deadly, using chemical, biological and/or radioactive weapons at any moment -- we must in this unique instance criminalize the ideas. If Marxists had been doing, and were continuing to do, what Muslims have been doing and continue to do, I would favor the same measure. Ditto for any other group. But we -- at least we JWers -- know that no other group rises to this level of immediate deadliness directly related to their ideas.
The ideas of Islam are not mere "ideas" -- they are pragmatic concrete blueprints for concretely actually physically attacking us. And any other ideas one can find in Islam that don't seem to be directly related to these blueprints are inextricably convolved with them in an ideological tapestry that cannot be unraveled in order to save Islam from its "extremist interpretations" -- other than with abstract sophistry. It is absurd and reckless to treat the ideas of Islam as "ideas" in the conventional sense.
Indeed, this notion that Islam constitutes "ideas" reflects a very similar limitation of thought by which one reflexively considers Islam a "religion".
One cannot fight an evil belief system with kindness, especially if the system views kindness as weakness. The Quran and Hadith teach practitioners of Islam from birth to death to force all others to conform to the teachings of Islam, accept dimmitude, or die. That there exists moderation in the practice of Islam is denial by those who are afraid to leave their psychological comfort zone lest they confront the evil. Today this is referred to as "political correctness". If One were honest with One's self, he or she would know that it is cowardice. This is the reason we will lose our country to first the Socialists who are now taking our freedoms away right in front of our eyes, and this will eventually be the case with the establishment of the caliphate. Americans are lazy cowards who would rather sit around and analyze, intellectualize, and rationalize than to confront any issue for fear of not being liked by the rest of the herd. Ironically, our capacity for critical thought has been obfuscated by progressive politicians & the public school system who has taught the last 5 generations that America was founded and is ruled by racists, and capitolism is unfair to the poor and destroys the environment. In the name of diversity, we are allowing thousands of Muslims to migrate to this country every year, and then sit around talking about fighting the "Misunderstanders of Islam." We're far from fighting terrorism. We are complicit in our own destruction. We no longer believe in something that is worth dying for. So we will lose our country, because we are intellectually corrupt cowards.
One cannot fight an evil belief system with kindness, especially if the system views kindness as weakness. The Quran and Hadith teach practitioners of Islam from birth to death to force all others to conform to the teachings of Islam, accept dimmitude, or die. That there exists moderation in the practice of Islam is denial by those who are afraid to leave their psychological comfort zone lest they confront the evil. Today this is referred to as "political correctness". If One were honest with One's self, he or she would know that it is cowardice. This is the reason we will lose our country to first the Socialists who are now taking our freedoms away right in front of our eyes, and this will eventually be the case with the establishment of the caliphate. Americans are lazy cowards who would rather sit around and analyze, intellectualize, and rationalize than to confront any issue for fear of not being liked by the rest of the herd. Ironically, our capacity for critical thought has been obfuscated by progressive politicians & the public school system who has taught the last 5 generations that America was founded and is ruled by racists, and capitolism is unfair to the poor and destroys the environment. In the name of diversity, we are allowing thousands of Muslims to migrate to this country every year, and then sit around talking about fighting the "Misunderstanders of Islam." We're far from fighting terrorism. We are complicit in our own destruction. We no longer believe in something that is worth dying for. So we will lose our country, because we are intellectually corrupt cowards.
Actually, I've thought about it and it escapes me. Aren't they supporting the Twin towers with the phrase, "you can't bring us down?" I'm not seeing where they're glorifying the attacks. I saw it from the other viewpoint, that "you can't bring down the spirit of the towers" or "we're still standing"
Kind of like these pics:
http://www.anniemayhem.com/blog%20pics/9-11NeverForget.jpg
I don't know. Maybe I'm seeing it the wrong way.
mp11
I'm totally sick of reading your puerile drivel. Why don't you save it for some learning disability blog?
When I was young, sedition was a crime (aid and support to the enemy) - I don't know what the problem is now. Would you put your life on the line to protect me from reprisal if I wore a Charles Martel t-shirt in Saudi Arabia?
There's a cure for your poison, of which I pray our hitherto dhimmi countries will avail themselves - 150 grains applied to the base of the skull.
"Perhaps then they would understand the impact of what happened on that day."
cjh --- nice try but no banana ------islam is a diseased state of mind, spirit, body and emotions-----
"I loved how choked O was today in his news conference. I think he's really angry at the muslims for not playing nice like he asked them to."
Yes,over that and the fact that his vacations are getting interrupted by these morons' antics. I guess wifey must be getting pissed.
Frankly, I wouldn't care what kind of statement they made on their tee shirts, that's if everyone had the same right to express their opinions in the same way. But anyone with a half brain knows what the reaction would have been had 15 White Anglos made a statement offensive to Muslims. Obama's justice department would have been on the spot charging them with a hate crime.
"and they just were not thinking." - Dearborn schools spokesman
You're what's called a "useful idiot."
Coming from Muslim kids, it means they aint going to give up Jihad. Never Forget has a very clear meaning. My guess is that you are not an American to have the heart and mind affinity of an American.
Hmmm . . . the article didn't mention as to whether or not these kids were suspended. If not, they should be.
How about that sensitivity training? How about a hate crime? Muslim groups scream in advocacy for such laws . . . it's time for the backfire.
I would like to see a story about what this really means or what the kids perceived it to mean. On it's face it could go either way but there is usually a hidden meaning in stuff like this.
Aware that these were Arab students, I watched Fox news coverage of this story this morning. Not a word that the students were Arabs, not a whisper.
jzaik,
That thought occurred to me too; however, were that the case, there would have been no reprimand of the students nor any expression of regret by the school authorities. Evidently then, the students' intent was not to honor the Twin Towers or they would have simply told the principal so.
Another example of hiring Jellyfish as school administrators!!
Remember school administrators come from the ranks of teachers. In many states you must have a teaching certificate and classroom experience for a minimum of three years to apply for an administrative position. In my experience, teachers with a spinal column are rarely chosen for upper administrator positions.
We should keep in mind this is a public school in Dearbourn Michagan!!! Can you imagine the money spent on training teachers, staff, and, administrators on how to act, and speak, politically correct? Well this is what you get for all that training!! A staff and an administration that can squeeze through a keyhole!
In my opinion the administration should have suspended the students, if only to send a message, and then worried about the ACLU later on.
On a legal note: In the 60's, the Supreme Court affirmed the right of students to wear black armbands in a public school protesting the Vietnam war, but those students were suspended first.
Hmmm. So, what we have here is that Islamic ideas are being implemented and Marxist ideas essentially aren't. This is correct. Both are ideas from totalitarian ideologies but the one is dormant and the other isn't. OK. Well, when bad (and felonious) ideas start being implemented then you punish the act. Everytime. This has been my point all along.
Now, if we can only bring the same kind of scrutiny, castigation, criticism, scorn, mockery, disgust, etc., towards Islam as we did towards Marxism (and Nazism) then we should be all right (got to avoid Joseph McCarthy types though while engaging in this tearing down of Islam because that will only delay things). But the problem is the pussyfooting that goes on respecting calling out Islam for what it is, thanks to PC/MC nonsense. This has to change and then Islam will be marginalized in America as has Nazism and Marxism. The real danger lies in this current hands-off attitude towards Islam not changing.
I would also argue that it should be argued that Islam is indeed a religion but the only major religion which is evil and a totalitarian ideology to boot. If the courts can see things this way, everything else will start to fall into place, including many American Muslims, especially females, just giving up on the world's worst religion. Desertion by Muslims of their faith is a key element in winning this war we're in. We need lots of Whittaker Chambers types among Muslims comming clean with themselves and doing a 180.
Yes, you can reprint it. It is from my book titled 'Sparks and Seeds' found on www.lulu.com
Yes, you can reprint it. It is from my book titled 'Sparks and Seeds' found on www.lulu.com
"What took place here today was an inappropriate, distasteful act," said David Mustonen, a spokesman for Dearborn Schools. "(It was) totally inappropriate, totally disrespectful, and they just were not thinking." ~ headline
Inappropriate ~ Distasteful ~ Totally Disrespectful
Little does David realize that he just paid these boys a huge complement, and that this is par for the course for the truly devout mohammedan.
They were not thinking, eh? ...OOOOOOHHHHH, yes they were! I'm afraid that they gave this a lot of thought.
I wrote about this type of thing going on in Michigan high schools back in 2006. It's far worse than you think ...
http://worldsreality.blogspot.com/2006/09/myspace-still-supporting-terrorists.html
To tell me that they did not think about what they were doing is a downright denial of their support of jihad. What do they take many of us kafirs for, stupid?
They took the time to make them over their time off of school, so yes they did think it through.
What if a kafir would have come to school wearing a sweatshirt with a picture of a bomb being dropped on Mecca? Or a sweatshirt with a picture of Muhammed with a bomb for a turban? Much like the cartoons of Muhammed. Or a kafir wearing a sweatshirt with the words "Blow them up and let Allah sort them out?"
I am sure that the American Muslim groups would be outraged and calling for their expulsion if not for their deaths. No outrage from so called moderate muslims or any muslim organizations over these sweatshirts. Does not surprise me since the majority of muslims feel that America deserved 9/11. You could see that being very prevalent after the attacks.
Newsflash: 15 muslim high schoolers wear a sweatshirt glorifying the 9/11 jihad attacks, and they wonder why they are a target for backlash.
Joseph McCarthy you stated:
I wonder if the author is 100% sure that these "Arab-American" kids are even all muslims. There are many Arab Christians in the Detroit area.
Yes there are Arab-Christians, but a person with common sense knows that Arab Christians do not run around spatting jihadi statements, nor do they glorify terrorist attacks, nor have I ever seen or heard an Arab-Christian say Allah Akbar before committing a jihad attack. In fact, Arab-Christians are persecuted right along with non-Arab Christians. Wise up Joseph! Do some more reading.
It would be just like a white-supremecist wearing a shirt depicting a black person hanging from a tree, or a shirt depicting the Jewish Star of David with an X across it. Those would not be allowed to be worn to school. I know schools have a zero tolerance for anything that is offensive, the schools have a right to enforce that policy.
There is a very fine line between hate speech and freedom of speech. When does it cross the line? Unless acted upon, that is when it becomes a crime. The muslims hate anything that has to do with freedom of speech, especially when it comes to the criticizing of Islam, but yet when it comes to their use of "freedom of speech" it is ok. While freedoms are denied in muslim nations, they are very much envoked in democratic societies.
It is a mere case of hypocrosy on the part of these 15 muslims, for if a kafir wore any of the sweatshirts that I have stated above, they would be demanding that the school suspend them or expel them.
Just like a sweatshirt that says "Made in America, Tested in Japan" with a mushroom cloud over Hiroshima and Nagasaki would seriously offend the Japanese, so these sweatshirts would offend any patriotic loving American who witnessed that very horrid act or the people who lost loved ones on that day. These sweatshirts glorify the deaths of thousands of innocent people, they would have sparked outrage if worn anywhere.
Muslims can be the biggest hypocrites, while utilizing the very freedoms they despise, they want to deny them to those who disagree with them.
I support freedom of speech, but what I do not support is the use of freedom of speech when it glorifies the death of thousands or millions of innocent people. Nor do I support freedom of speech when it calls for violence or death against innocent people.
Shame on those 15 muslim students.
Newsflash: Michigan is one of the states with the highest count of Arab-Muslim Americans.
This is not about tolerance, it is about common decency.
The school confiscating these sweatshirts is not about profiling or discrimination, but about doing what is right.
How far must we go when it comes to tolerance? Far enough that we are afraid of offending a certain group of people.
How far must we go in tolerance of Islam? Until one day we wake up under Sharia Law.
"Blessed are the idiots, for even they can be forgiven?"
I am the truthsayer, and I approve of this message.
I'm not sure if you're replying to me but if you are I NEVER asserted that these foolish, ungrateful, silly kids did not know what they were doing. Your reply is rambling in nature. Be more specific and accurate next time. I mean to be helpful, not critical.
(I think he's replying to Joseph McCarthy's foolish "are you sure their Muslim?" statement. Though it is a little ramble for the most part agree with TS)
Reply to Wellington...
Thanks for being consistently calm, informative, clear and brilliant. I respect your comments and I always look for them whenever I can get here to JW.
Yes, these students knew exactly what they were doing...I am sort of amazed that fights didn't break out..perhaps, the other students on campus are in their own little world, and are out of touch with what's going on.
They weren't thinking?
They didn't mean any harm?
That s the most disgusting excuse they can think of. Well tell that excuse to your Prophet Muhammad.
Thank you for what you wrote. It was very kind of you and much appreciated.
As for the "other" students not knowing what's really going on, you were right to note such. Timidity, ignorance and general cluelessness respecting why Westerners (whether in America, Britain, Canada, Norway, Spain, France, Germany, etc.) enjoy the freedoms that they do should function as a warning sign to all who understand that freedom isn't free that liberty is in jeopardy yet again, this time from the world's oldest totalitarian ideology, which has managed to slip under the built-in-radar crap detector, speaking individually and in the aggregate, for far too long a time (principally because, unlike other freeodm-crushing ideogical blueprints, it is a religion). Time for this to change, once and for all like.
When Islam is finally seen for what it really is (not there yet of course), it will be all downhill for Mohammed's creed. Can't wait, though before this happens much unnecessary tragedy, courtesy of Islam, will occur aplenty. Ah, mankind must often pay a high price for not eradicating evil sooner rather than later. Santayana's assessment comes most forcefully to mind here.
I'm relatively new to the site, but not to life. Please, if I may, I would like to make a few observations, and ask a few questions. Please forgive my being forward. To Bronish : No, the "other students" are trapped psychologically in Political Correctness and Multiculturalism, as it seems you are. I base this on you "repect"(ing) Wellington's views. Both Patrick and Wellington are seemingly good hearted people. However, One thinks simply putting Islam on trial, and showing it's flaws will lead the Muslims to spiritual enlightenment & this will convince them to stop behaving badly. The other wants to go so far as to expose to the courts the sheer crude, base, disgusting attributes of the Islamic religion or totalitarian ideology," and everything else will start to fall into place" including some American Muslims. I guess by eliciting shame or guilt, or even causing many of the female Muslims to leave their hideous religion, this will somehow change the mindset of the other Muslims. Like I said, you are both good hearted people who just want to convince the Muslins, and all people for that matter that the standard for good behavior is goodness, kindness, and decency. Sadly, you cannot reason with unreasonable people, especially those who have chosen to be unreasonable, and think there duty is to lie. You mention the word evil, but do you really know what evil is? It is precisely those who know the difference between what is good and bad, or right and wrong, and still choose to do what’s wrong and hurtful to others. This you cannot reason with. You can't buy them off. They'll take your money, but they will be back for more or else. You can not lie to a liar to put off your dealings for a later time. You cannot coax them with flattery. You cannot trick or talk your way out of it. You must face evil and make a decision. Will you submit, or will you fight? Or do you want someone else to do your fighting for you? As in you want the whole mind set of America to change, so as to make the transition peaceful. Good, kind, passive people usually do want group cover. Tell me even if it were possible to convince unreasonable people to be reasonable, how long would it take? Let's say the Muslims starting next week will drop all their Qurans and Hadiths, and start teaching that kindness, honesty, and decency is the way that Allah wants you to live. How long will the inculcation of these ideas take to change the behaviors of Muslims who have been taught for thousands of years to live according to the teachings of Mohammad? How many lives are you willing to sacrifice waiting to see if and when this great transformation will take place? Then who’s to say that in 5,10,15,20 or any number of years from now, like Nidal Hassan, one or many of these converts won't stand up and shout Alahu Akbar, and spray the room full of people with bullets. Or better still in the grand tradition of taqqiya a biological bomb in a train or plane station would grant them even more status amongst the martyrs. No, there is only two ways to deal with evil, submit or fight. That is physically eliminating the threat. I'll lay down my life for all fellow Americans, or anyone who is willing to live and let live. You'll be the beneficiary of it, even though you may not choose to do that for us.
Two comments I'll run your way. The first is a question. What would be your solution to dealing with Islam and its adherents? Mind you, the free world can't destroy freedom while trying to protect it. And freedom, real freedom, means that people in a free society should have the right to express ideas that would destroy freedom if acted upon.
Second, you seem to assume that all Muslims are evil. I certainly think all Muslims are confused but most are not evil and it is they to whom the non-Muslim world must appeal to see reason, to understand that the most rational and enlightened course of action for them is to leave their warped creed. Islam is indeed evil but that doesn't mean all Muslims are. After all, during the Cold War many Communist Party members in the Soviet Union, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, East Germany, etc., were, in their day-to-day life good with family and friends and would even be prepared to share their last bottle of vodka with a guest, but, of course, this didn't make Marxism OK. And so it is with Muslims and Islam.
Put another way, what Abraham Lincoln observed can be invoked here, to wit, that one can hate the sin without necessarily hating the sinner. Many sinners can be redeemed. Villifying them and giving them no recourse but to double, triple, their efforts to defend the indefensible is not the most sensible course of action to pursue, now is it? Evil must be destroyed to be sure but not all adherents of evil should also be eradicated. Surely you can see this.
I am not trapped psychologically by anything! Ha! Certainly not PC or MC...are you nuts?
I'm probably more conservative, right wing, extremist in my views than most folks here at JW.
But as for the students at the school, I think they are probably out of touch, and don't even care.
Re: Shep
Wellington,
"Mind you, the free world can't destroy freedom while trying to protect it. "
Where did Shep say we have to destroy freedom? What is wrong with you man? Did we "destroy freedom" when we interned Japanese Americans and fire-bombed hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children in order to stop a megalomaniac danger to the world in WW2? Why are you asking Shep for his solutions? I'm sorry to say, but such a question is a tell-tale sign of a rat smelled, when a person says "So what's your solution?" after they, like Shep, have laid the full horror on the line for all who should have seen long ago, to see. Only Leftists ask with disingenuous innnocence, "So what's your solution?"
Wellington, apparently you have not been reading the mountain of deadly horror documented by Jihad Watch over the years. Just this past year should be enough for anyone with common sense and decency to stop pussyfooting around. At the very least, total deportation of all Muslims. Anything less is irrational, to put it generously. If you have been reading it, you haven't been digesting it.
Anyone who has familiarized themselves with the full horror of Muslims as documented by Jihad Watch (let alone many other sources) can no longer conclude that this problem can be managed by normal means by which we manage other dangerous problems. This is unique. We better pull out the stops out soon, or the blood of millions of our own people (and of non-Muslims in the Third World) will be on our hands.
Operation WTFU.
It is profoundly, viscerally disheartening when people in the Anti-Islam Movement are putting on the brakes, because of some lurking PC MC virus in their system. And that includes Robert F. Spencer.
Hesperado,
I just assumed that they got in trouble simply because it was tasteless. IE, you don't use the twin towers to make the statement at all. Unless, they were talking about "you can't bring us terrorists down." In which case they were obviously supporting the jihadis.
But with this new update that they didn't wan't arab-americans to be seen in a bad light....It makes me think they are indeed supporting terror.
I don't know, it's too confusing at this point. There is something fishy about their intent.
Well, I am not a Leftist, nor am I riddled with PC/MC nonsense, nor am I not aware of all the horrors perpetrated by Muslims worldwide. I am however aware that your solution of "deporting all Muslims" is wildly unrealistic at this time. I function in the real world and try to find real world solutions, which my posts on just this thread, especially my first one when I mentioned the Schenck and Brandenburg cases and complimented Hugh on suggesting that new judicial ground must be broken to deal with the Islamic supremacist menace, reveal in very clear terms. And now Robert Spencer himself is too PC/MC for you, Heperado. Hmmm. You're beginning to sound like the boy who says everyone in the parade was out of step except himself.
Once they understood the impact of what happened on 9/11, their chests would swell out with pride, unfortunately, because thats the way they are. We should never forget that Muslims gloated and handed out sweets to their future terrorists (kids) when news of that atrocity broke.
Wellington,
"...your solution of "deporting all Muslims" is wildly unrealistic at this time."
I agree. That doesn't make it wrong, nor unworthy of pushing for. Slavery wasn't ended in the West by people who were farsighted giving up because "at that time" it was unrealistic. Such massive shifts in perspective require people to push ahead of time for the goal.
"And now Robert Spencer himself is too PC/MC for you, Heperado. Hmmm."
Not "now" -- for a few years now. I've analyzed it exhaustively on my blog, Jihad Watch Watch.
You're well intentioned, Hesperado, and we agree on much, but you remind me of the ardent abolitionists shortly before and during the Civil War who thought that Abraham Lincoln was a slacker on the issue of slavery. Just being right about an issue is not enough. How you implement major change is just as important.
We are complicit in our own destruction. We no longer believe in something that is worth dying for. So we will lose our country, because we are intellectually corrupt cowards.---posted above
You should adjust your pronouns; "we" does not include me, or you, or most others here. Nor do your second and third statements above. "We" includes many other Americans who are utterly clueless and some who are deranged leftists, like our president, his Marxist czars, and the Democrat party in general.
Many of us here at JW have worked tirelessly to inform our neighbors, friends, and total strangers about the dangers and evil of islam. We have literally pounded the pavement, knocked on doors, printed and distributed flyers, and contributed to billboard campaigns and other mass media projects designed to reach large numbers of people. We have bombarded our Congressional representatives with letters and sent them Mr. Spencer's books. We have formed community activist groups to meet, put our heads together, and devise new and clever ways to reach the brain dead masses.
We know. We understand. We are worried, frustrated, and angry. We try to elect sane, rational politicians who are not completely corrupted by political correctness and the insidious doctrines of multiculturalism and moral relativism. Unfortunately, politicians are terrified of being called "racists" and before we can address the deadly threat posed by islam, we must eradicate cultural Marxism.
We are totally opposed to muslim immigration and have apprised our worthless representatives of our sentiments, including brief exegeses of islam and islamic history. I can only speak for myself but the replies I got were almost identical in their brevity and vacuousness, as well as their implicit suggestions of bigotry (on my part) and terse reminders that our Constitution guarantees religious freedom. I did mention to them that religious freedom does not make the Constitution a suicide pact, which they ignored, just like they ignore the Constitution except when they find it useful in redressing an ignorant constituent.
What would you do to eliminate the islamic scourge? If you have any suggestions, we're all ears.