Steyn: Dutch court "is explicitly attempting to criminalize the political opinions of a large swath of the Dutch electorate"

Mark Steyn on the imminent prosecution of Geert Wilders in the Netherlands (thanks to the peerless Kathy Shaidle):

...in the Netherlands and other European countries, the political elite understands that there are frictions between an ever more assertive Muslim population and an ever more resentful "native" working class, but that, with the usual careless confidence of Big Government, it had concluded that the answer to this problem was to police and constrain public discourse within ever narrower bounds. (...)

And, although Mr. Wilders is invariably described as "far right," how "far" he is depends on where you're standing: A poll last month found his party tied for first place in Dutch affections.

In other words, this court is explicitly attempting to criminalize the political opinions of a large swath of the Dutch electorate.

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The liberal establishment is trying to forstall a very serious conflict, even a civil war, by shutting up those who use fighting words. It's as if, in 1938, Western countries, fearing the dangers of rising fascism, decided to censure ovely critical or alarmist opinions as a way to avoid the inevitable clash.
Good luck - it won't work. It will just make the boiler explode with greater fury later on under all that pent-up PC pressure. And will make the battle harder later on.

Poland tried similar measures to forestall a conflict with NAZI Germany, but failed.

WE ARE ALL GEERT WILDERS HERE! Come and try to prosecute us all please, there are millions of Geert Wilders in the EU also,please come and file charges against us to. We all made the mistake of believing in freedom of speech in the Netherlands that Geert has made. He spoke out because he is concerned for the well being and sovereignty of his country,nothing more,and nothing less and he sees the danger of Islam and sharia law. He is brave enough to confront it head on as all freedom loving people of the Netherlands should if they have any honor for their country at all.

My Mother always told me how brave the Dutch where in the face of the Nazis'invasion, I was up lifted by the stories of the Dutch underground when I visited my home country just before 9-11. The relatives I email now have chosen not to discuss the prosecution of their Winston Churchill with no explanation: what are they afraid of? I sent them Churchill's definition of the Mohammedans from his book "the River Wars".

Stand up for your country and its Dutch values and Dutch traditions that under attack all within just the last 30 years. Recognize the apologists,recognize the appeasers, and those who refuse to stand up against this incursion, give them no quarter for they will not give you any at all whenever they can.

Those Dutch bringing charges in order to shut up and even punish Wilders, and by extention to shut up, and threaten with punishment, all those who have come to the same conclusions as Wilders, are sinister figures. They are essentially collaborators with the forces of Islam, willing to do whatever it takes in order to aggrandize themselves, or even to help themselves to more of what they think they can grab, by way of power and, in the end, loot. Those who share Geert Wilders' alarm over the Dutch, and Western civilizational legacy, in which we all have a life estate but must think as well of the remaindermen, those who support Geert Wilders not because they necessarily agree with him on everything but do agree with him on what is now in Western Europe The One Big Thing (the threat posted from within by the forces of Islam, now employing instruments of Jihad by which they hope, because of incredible negligence by members of the
European political and media elites, manage through demographic conquest from within what can not be achieved by military conquest from without.

In Dutch terms, in the terms of the Dutch during World War II and the Nazi occupation, the first group may be thought of as consisting of peter-mentens, while the second may be thought of as constisting of the miep-gieses. Between Peter Menten and Miep Gies -- well, we all know the right choice.

It becomes clearer and clearer with each passing year that the political elites of this modern era we live in are destined to go down in history as some of the greatest fools of all time, assuming, of course, that Napoleon's cynical assessment of the past, that history is a pack of lies agreed upon, does not ultimately prevail as the final analysis of the record of man on earth.

What is disturbing is how ignorant people are about Islam outside of a forum such as this. Everyone here who has some knowledge needs to try posting on typical sites, newspapers, NPR, etc. whenever the subject touches on Islam and try to respond to the absurd attacks that you get with more information. It may be a way to chip away at the ignorance that still clouds the issue for vast swaths of the populations of the West. The typical response is pure emotions attacking what they see as intolerant bigoted opinions of Muslims. Breaking through that thick brainwashing that so many have had is really truly going to be nearly impossible. We will be lucky if they can be woken up before it is too late to save the West. And another forum to work this same technique is talk radio. Hesperado mentioned that once before and it is true. Try calling in and speaking the truth about Islam and get in as much as possible before they hang up on you and trash your bigoted views after hanging up. It can actually be fun figuring out how to word your sentences so that their itchy trigger finger is not set off until you have managed to get your point out. But most hosts, including so-called conservatives, are just as bad as the typical commenter you will encounter on mainstream sites. The West is truly facing a monumental challenge to get frank discussion of the threat of Islam out in the open and dealt with.

Maybe this prosecution will wake Europeans from their stupor. I know that Canada's prosecution of Mark Steyn backfired, so maybe this one will as well. Good luck, Geert! You are our hero!

It becomes clearer and clearer with each passing year that the political elites of this modern era we live in are destined to go down in history as some of the greatest fools of all time, assuming, of course, that Napoleon's cynical assessment of the past, that history is a pack of lies agreed upon, does not ultimately prevail as the final analysis of the record of man on earth.

"history is a pack of lies agreed upon"

What should scare everyone in the West is the FACT that if Islam is allowed to continue to spread in the West and in particular America, eventually, and it is just a matter of time, 9/11 history will be taught as a glorious miracle of Allah, a wondrous achievement of hero martyrs whose brave actions began the process of slaying the evil democratic America and ushered in the glorious wonder of Islamic America for all time.

Criminalise anything political u only push it underground, only to have those opinions resurrected en masse at a later time, it's just how society works.

No matter what u do, individually or as a group/country, the Muslims will diligently chip away at our resistance to Islam until they win, now too bad we don't have the same dedication they have, only in our case, to chip away at the muslim resistance & not give up.

"Criminalise anything political u only push it underground, only to have those opinions resurrected en masse at a later time, it's just how society works."

The exception really is Islam. It does for all intents and purposes silence opposition. That is why it is so exceedingly dangerous for the West to be allowing it to expand here now. At some point people will simply choose to live, to physically remain a living being on earth, rather than speak the truth about Islam. Look at every single place on earth that Islam has gained population let alone governmental control. There is no example of any society standing up to and standing down Islam. It can not be done. The West is playing a dangerous and deadly game with Multiculturalism and it may very well prove absolutely fatal.

Actually u brought up a really good point, especially since Islam's basically a militant religion/system w/a mandate from their higher power to conquer, it's very hard to convince them otherwise. I also see that many r driven by fear & hysteria, which doesn't help at all. :-(

@ Wellington, ThinkThrice - hear hear!

Right now people may be thinking that it is "ignorant", "bigoted" or "spreading hatred" to talk about the threat of Islam... but in maybe 100 years from now, will people still see things that way - or will the leaders and elites of 2010 be dismissed as Chamberlain-style useful idiots who blew it when there was still a chance to resist Islam?

I see that my post was listed twice. The first time I pressed "Submit" a long, turgid, obscure message came up which said something to the effect that my comment could not be posted because of some Dutch prohibition to controversial statements not being in keeping with Dutch law. So I resubmitted and that's why I have the same post above a second time (when I did not get such a weird statement). Has anyone else encountered this? This is the first time I ever have. Very strange. Input would be appreciated.

"Everyone here who has some knowledge needs to try posting on typical sites, newspapers, NPR, etc. whenever the subject touches on Islam... It may be a way to chip away at the ignorance that still clouds the issue for vast swaths of the populations of the West."

A while back I sent out some invitations to a Facebook group on Rifqa Bary - to be met with de-friendings, accusations of being intolerant, spreading hatred, having "a beef with Islam" and the like.

It seemed a bit surprising, until I realised that some of these peoples' best friends are Muslims with whom they like to talk about football, while others had just returned from North Africa, where they had the chance to eat some nice Hummus with their headscarved Moroccan friends.

Some are all too eager to mention that their friend is Muslim - but when it's pointed-out that in Islam apostates are killed, they quickly change the subject.

It must be very distressing for them to have their world-view challenged, along with all the implications of admitting something like Islam's death sentence for apostasy. Which could maybe also be a reason Rifqa Bary's treatment at the hands of the courts and the mainstream media?

Are you able to tell us the country you are posting from or where your server is based?

Can you try posting something similar again and record the exact message, if you get one?

I am posting from America. And I wish now I had copied word for word the message I received which said my post was denied (which it wasn't as it turned out, though I didn't know that at the time which is why I hit "Submit" again). This was not a rare event for me but a unique one. As for trying again, yes, I think I will and if I get such a bizarre objection another time to my post I will copy it word for word. Thanks for your reply.

Marisol, I hate to bother you, but might you know why I got rejected with such a prohibitory statement the first time I tried to post my initial statement above? Are you able to go back and see what was presented to me? I'm intrigued by the strangeness and chilling effect of it all.

I agree. Try to find out what that wierd message was. Sounds incredibly "Big Brotherish." Scary.

Actually I think this will backfire. The more the media and PC elitists try to demonize and criminalize Wilders the more people will get a chance to hear his message.

Actually I think this will backfire. The more the media and PC elitists try to demonize and criminalize Wilders the more people will get a chance to hear his message.

"When opinions are outlawed, only outlaws will have opinions."

Hmm. Now to what did that slogan originally apply?

If they think that hiding the problem it will just go away, they are in for a rude awakening.

That said, this can be a good thing, doing this will cause more problems in the country and over the next few years it will boil just like a well cooked meal, only to boil out of control into maybe a civil war. Thought this may sound bad, it will probably be the only way for Europe to survive and continue to prosper, the alternative will be for people to voice their opinions, do nothing about the real threat and find them selves been ruled by a death cult called Islam.

Either way it looks like these smaller countries are going to have to do something sooner than later.

please tell me, papa whiskey

@Antijihadist: you're quite right, I've had similar experiences. I call it the "analysis by coffee shop", ie you meet nice people in the coffee shop and that's the view you have of all the people represented by those few people.
Of course, when we travel, and certainly when I travel, most of the coffee shop experiences really are good, the people friendly and hospitable. But that's irrelevant, irrelevant, irrelevant. Irrelevant to the ideology, in this case the ideology of Islam. No matter how nice individuals, the ideology of Islam is nasty, supremacist, sectarian, anti-semitic homophobic and misogynist. Not to mention, against free speech and the rule of law by man.
But they don't see, do they, those who "defriend" you. They had the nice Hummus and met some "nice Muslims", so... Islam must be nice and you must be an awful Islamophobe for having the bad manners to raise the problems of Islam... (shame on you!....)

Have you tried looking back in your History? Just before/after your post at 6:32PM yesterday (although maybe some hours difference in your time zone) you might still have the exact URLs of the pages that you visited, or were redirected to.

Most of the Muslims I meet are very friendly - although that can very quickly change if any "touchy" subjects are mentioned. Maybe the "analysis by coffee shop" is what they want to promote? And maybe that's also what initiatives such as One World 2011 are after?

OK I admit, the guy who de-friended me was called Mohammed - but he was also prone to saying "I'm not a Muslim!". So thought he may have been interested. The other feedback about being "intolerant" etc fortunately didn't reach the de-friending stage. That said, more than 10% of my friends list accepted the invitation - including some I'd have never expected. So maybe a small light at the end of the tunnel...

"I don't happen to agree with banning either the Koran or Mein Kampf. I think free peoples should be free to read them and reach their own conclusion thereupon."

A perfectly valid argument.
Also a very good reason, if any Muslims who don't happen to have the enormous cranial capacity, moral education and good sense of Steyn, if those Muslims should happen to wage jihad after reading the Qur'an and happen to murder Steyn or his relatives or associates, then those Muslims are obviously entirely within their rights.
It's just a book and the Muslims read it and made their decision.
What's the problem?

Papawhiskey gets slogan of the day; "If opinions are outlawed only outlaws will have opinions". That could be our battle cry as we tackle this classical Churchill VS. Chamberlain delimma. I think calling talk shows is a great idea but with one refinement. If a collective effort is made to get some of the heavy-hitters on board such as Medved, Hannity, and Ingraham we can get some mileage. We have a similar issue in the USA with the way blacks and the liberal elites have tried to stifle criticism of Obama. These groups are also known for being Muslim sympathizers. I really think the two problems are different sides of the same coin. As an after thought, does anybody know if Saudi oil money$ are at the root of the Dutch effort to go after Geert Wilders?

In other words, this court is explicitly attempting to criminalize the political opinions of a large swath of the Dutch electorate.

Logically there are two options for the government

1. Imprison all those who intend to vote for Geert Wilder's party.

2. Throw these poeple out of the Netherlands and replace them by importing Muslims.

We in USA need to arm ourselves. Dearborn, MI, is already an Islamic stronghold. In 2011, the Islamists want a One World event in Seattle. They are already killing and persecuting their own women, like Amina and Sarah Said, and Rifqa Bary. Soon they will attack all women, and all men.

In response to the poster above, 'has any society stood up against Islam?' Let us stand.
para bellum
John Billings

Mike there is a clear difference on mein kampf and quran though they want to set the same goals. quran is a so called religious book (word of allah)muhammads wet dreams, mein kampf is words of hitler a demonic human being.

Hitler-Nazi
1.Extermination of non-aryan ethnic groups
2.Extermination of jews+homosexuals
3.Dictatorship of the aryan race over all other races
4.Installation of totalitarity in all aspects of life+policy

Mohammed-Islam
1.Extermination of so called"unbelievers",subjugation of the book people[dhimmitude]
2.Extermination of jews+homosexuals
3.Dictatorship of muslims over all+ man over women[incl.pedophilia]
4.Installation of totalitarity in all aspects of life+policy

greaticon,

there another clear difference between the Qur'an and Mein Kampf:

Mein Kampf is a book written by Hitler and as such is part of the cult of personality and the Nazi ideology revolving around and pretty much entirely dependent upon a LIVING Hitler. As such, Mein Kampf is absolutely no threat to anyone any longer because Hitler is dead;

while,

the Qur'an is a book written by a 7th century bandit, pedophile, mass-murderer, rapist, liar and self-declared prophet of God and creator of the death cult known as Islam who happens to have a LIVING following of over a billion practitioners of his cult active in the world right NOW.

Just a quick thought that came to mind - so we have PC elitists trying to criminalise the "Geert Wilders" of our time in order to give the Muslims their "place in society" - have they ever thought that if the Muslims were in power, they'll be silenced? In fact, the PC-ists would be among the rest of us in the end - either submit to islam or die or pay that protection tax. It's all or or nothing w/those guys, & they gonna go for "ALL"

I honestly think the PC Elites are arrogant enough to see themselves in some kind of partnership with the Muslims...a pact made with the Devil's People for Power.

Speaking as a member of the BNP we are well used to the sort of persecution being faced by Geert. The latest tactic is to force us to change our constitution on pain of imprisonment of our leaders and the sequestration of all the parties assets. Its not the first time this has been threatened but is definetely a reaction to us having gained numerous council seats, County Council seats and having 2 MEPs. In fact when asked why the sudden downer on the BNP the laughable named Equalities and Human Rights Commission spokesperson said "its because they have 2 MEPs". The ruling elites are completely out of touch with the ordinary peoples fear of Islam and mass immigration in particular. There will be more and more of this sort of persecution of any dissenting voices. No, my best friend is NOT a Muslim and in fact I have NO Muslim friends. Can't figure out why !

Why can they not just ban Islam all together and be done with it?

Ban Islam worldwide and bring peace.

I need to wake up because that will never happen.

Doctor: You have been diagnosed with terminal inoperable cancer, too late. You have about 5 to 10 years left of life.

Freedom: Are you serious? What kind?

Doctor: Islamic and I am afraid I am.

Freedom: I thought that I would be around forever.

Doctor: So did common sense.

Freedom: When did common sense die?

Doctor: Common sense died after the birth of political correctness. Your next.

Those who deny that freedom is on trial or that it is slowly being eradicated for those of us who use it to stand against the tyranny, oppression, and agression of Islam; I wonder now if they are singing a different tune?

Or are they still deluding themselves that it could never happen? Have we not learned of the 40 yrs of what happened to Germany after WW2, plunged into a state of communism, with Communist East Germany? Why do we fail to study history?

Only after Reagan ordered for Gorbechov to tear down that wall in 1989 did Germany become united and Communism was eradicated without firing a shot.

That is because Germans wanted Communism gone, they fought and got it. We are up against a new enemy and we must now more than ever become like Germany did in 1989, stand up for our rights, freedoms, liberties, and the right to live without fear of reprisal, persecution, or incarceration.

It is going to take those "peace loving" muslims to become like Germany did and stand up to what is right, but then again they would be denying their own words of the Quran to subjagate the infidels to Islam or be killed. Surah 9:29.

It is the duty of muslims to quelch any criticism of Islam or be killed. We have seen that with the Islamic Organizations incessant ramblings to pass in the UN a bill to ban any criticism of Islam.

We have seen such cases of that with Salman Rushdie,author of the Satanic Verses, Bridgette Gabriel, founder of ACT for America, Mark Gabriel, author of Islam and Terrorism, Walid Shoebat, who left Islam and the Palestinian terrorist group.

Who will be put on trial next, Bridgette Gabriel, Nonie Darwish, Mark Gabriel, Walid Shoebat, Rifqa Bary, Ibn Warraq, or even our very own and beloved Robert Spencer?

With the influx and birth rates of Muslims in Europe, it is only a matter of time before Muslims will be in power and will not grant the rights of freedom of speech to the European governments, who so valiantly defended theirs.

It was a step in the right direction to ban the Islamic Group Islam4UK, but Europe is not out of the woods yet.

Will America follow? Our government is already afraid to say Islamic jihadists, or muslim extremists.Our military leaders are afraid to discharge military personnel that exhort jihad and hate for America, our government is already afraid to call this a war on Islamic terrorism. Anybody who stands against Islam and who has the courage to show the truth of it, is branded an Islamophobe.

There were those in the North who were against slavery and that is why we had the Civil War, people in WW2 who finally stood up to Nazism, for 50 years we fought and stood up to Communism, now we must stand up against Islamization.

It is literally a matter of life and death. Governments of Europe and America are getting to powerful.

Thomas Jefferson once said: " When the people fear their government, it is tyranny. When the government fears their people, it is liberty."


"Ignorance can be deadly, but silence even deadlier." The truthsayer.

"Blessed are the idiots, for even they can be forgiven." The truthsayer.

Viva Freedom!

Death to Islam!!

About six months ago I bought three "Support Geert Wilders" T shirts. I wear them a lot and they are noticeable with Geert's face displayed.

No one whom I've met has an inkling what this is all about. And...when I explain their eyes glaze over with boredom and disinterest.

I suppose that most people don't care till the issue effects them personally. Unfortunately, by then it's too late!

The Cycling Tuscan
Silicon Valley

Thanks. I tried that. Lost the infomation though. Damn. All very strange.

"About six months ago I bought three "Support Geert Wilders" T shirts. I wear them a lot and they are noticeable with Geert's face displayed.
"No one whom I've met has an inkling what this is all about. And...when I explain their eyes glaze over with boredom and disinterest."

This is because of the disgusting dereliction of duty on the part of our news media. The press is supposed to be one of the chief guardians of our liberty, the whistle-blowers on tyranny, and the watch-dogs against government excess. Instead they have become supporters of the would-be tyrants, cheerleaders and drumbeaters for bigger and more oppressive government, and lapdogs of corrupt leftists. For the past 30 or more years, the press has been ruled by the four "S's": it's Shallow, Slanted, Superficial, and Sensationalist.

"About six months ago I bought three "Support Geert Wilders" T shirts. I wear them a lot and they are noticeable with Geert's face displayed.
"No one whom I've met has an inkling what this is all about. And...when I explain their eyes glaze over with boredom and disinterest."

This is because of the disgusting dereliction of duty on the part of our news media. The press is supposed to be one of the chief guardians of our liberty, the whistle-blowers on tyranny, and the watch-dogs against government excess. Instead they have become supporters of the would-be tyrants, cheerleaders and drumbeaters for bigger and more oppressive government, and lapdogs of corrupt leftists. For the past 30 or more years, the press has been ruled by the four "S's": it's Shallow, Slanted, Superficial, and Sensationalist.

Hi all
Geert Wilders' trial is coming soon (January 20, 2010). Last step to support him with SITA action,

The international establishment, subverted by a variety of Islamic organizations including the OIC (Organization of Islamic Conference) will undoubtedly apply a great deal of pressure on the Dutch establishment to ensure that Geert Wilders is convicted on the charges that have been mischievously brought against him. It is likely that his party will win the next election in 2011 with the possibility of Mr Wilders becoming Prime Minister. The global establishment undoubtedly does not want Mr Wilders in such a position of influence, even if the people of the Netherlands do.

An international SITA action in support to Geert Wilders was established in late January 2009. It has received over 6,000 visits and generated hundreds of letters designed to educate and inform decision makers in the Netherlands. The Dutch Ministery of Justice visdited our SITA websites: http://tinyurl.com/agl2kn

This SITA action will now be reactivated in order to highlight this apparently politically motivated prosecution. If Geert Wilders falls, then Freedom of speech is dead in Europe.

There are three ways that you can participate:

1) By mail – two possible texts; one comparing Wilders to Winston Churchill and another comparing him to Charlie Chaplin (what to print and put into the envelope and the recipients are indicated):

http://sitamnesty.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/i-support-democrat-geert-winston-wilders-against-islamic-fascism-and-its-dhimmis/ (winston)

http://sitamnesty.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/i-support-democrat-geert-charlie-wilders-against-islamic-fascism (Charlie)

2) By putting a message in comments to articles talking about the trial of Geert Wilders in blogs. This message appears at the bottom of this page http://tinyurl.com/yauuelo in 4 languages: FR, ENG, SP, D

To support Geert Wilders and our dearly acquired freedoms please participate to the 2 suggested actions and transmit this message to your friends who have websites so that they can spread the word.

3) By giving some money. To donate: http://www.geertwilders.nl

I have decided to have a few tee shirts made up.
If you have any "catchy" slogans or thoughts please let me know and I will use them. (with your permission). Better still, maybe have a few tee shirts made yourself.
Some quick thoughts are:

1st Amendment allows me to say:
"Islamic Terrorist"
"Muslim Extremist"
"I love Bacon".
Will I be allowed to say this in 20 years?

Mohammad:
Thief, liar, rapist, murderer and pedophile....No problem!!......No one is perfect!

My Allah can smite your God!

Moderate Muslim......Oxymoron!

Papa Whiskey's...."When opinions are outlawed, only outlaws will have opinions."

Thanks

I am afraid the time of violence is coming. Jailing Geert will embolden Muslims.

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