"Outside court, about a dozen people held up signs reading 'Islam is against terrorism' and 'Not in the name of Islam.'" -- Reuters, January 8
"About 20 Muslims from nearby Dearborn appeared outside the courthouse to denounce Mr. Abdulmutallab. They carried large American flags and colorful signs that read 'NOT in the name of Islam' and 'Islam is against terrorism.'" -- New York Times, January 8, first version
"Dozens of Muslims from nearby Dearborn gathered outside the courthouse carrying large American flags and colorful signs that read 'NOT in the name of Islam' and 'Islam is against terrorism.'" -- New York Times, January 8, second version
"About 50 Detroit-area Muslims chanted 'We are Americans' as they marched behind metal barricades outside the courthouse. Many carried U.S. flags or signs with messages such as 'Not in the name of Islam.'" -- Associated Press, January 8
"An estimated 150 people attended a peaceful demonstration, carrying large American flags and signs that read, 'Not in the Name of Islam' and 'Not in Our Name.'" -- Detroit News, January 9
Many people over the last few years have asked why Muslims have demonstrated against Muhammad cartoons, and against the Pope's remarks in Regensberg in 2006, and against a teddy bear in Sudan, but have not demonstrated against jihad violence even as they profess to condemn it. In response to this, one of the chief talking points of disingenuous Islamic spokesmen in the U.S. has been that Muslims have been speaking out against terrorism, but that the "Islamophobic" media ignore them.
In reality, however, the mainstream media is avid to find and highlight moderate Muslims who speak out against terrorism, and as you can see from above, will even inflate the numbers of those who do so if reality is too embarrassing. And it's also interesting to note that Pamela Geller and I had 200 people at the Rally for Rifqa in November, and got virtually no press coverage -- while the media wants to spotlight Muslim moderates, it has little or no interest in giving any coverage to those oppressed by Islamic supremacism.
In any case, are these demonstrators sincerely going to challenge the mainstream understanding of the Islamic texts and teachings that jihadists use to justify violence and supremacism? We shall see. But I won't be holding my breath.
Mo himself said, "I have been made victorious through terror."
Bukhari 4.52.220
Moslems are also allowed to lie and deceive us to advance islam (taqiyya).
More things muslims don't want us to know about violent and deadly islam
Wow! A MILLION Muslims demonstrated, did they? I wouldn't know how they managed to get a BILLION people together in one place. Hmmm . . . Let's see . . . that's almost a TRILLION people, right? Gee, Robert, you seem to be implying that the MSM was exagerating the number of people. Well, I'm sure the journalists would NEVER, EVER, NEVER inflate the numbers in a ZILLION-QUILLION-FANTILLION years, any more than I would engage in unvarnished sarcastic hyperbole.
Based on one estimate:
125,000 to 200,000 Muslims live in Metro Detroit.
so 50 is 0.25ppt - 0.4ppt
finally we have found that "tiny minority of extremist muslims"
The lengths the media will go to to defend the "peaceful vast majority" of Muslims - now even inflating their numbers by a factor of 12.
Pathetic.
Whats the point of this, Mr. Spencer? So you and your readers can have your weekly taqqiyah session?
Basically, we know the drill because we have heard it all before from the mouth of these so-called moderates:"there's no place for violence and hatred in Islam,when practiced in the right way".
However, the Quran could have been retitled more accurately as "Mohammed: Biography of a Totalitarian Megalomaniac", because in essence, it doesn't contain any spiritual values at all.
Although many Muslims probably have better things to do than to take up arms against the West (like providing for their families day in day out), it can not be denied that practicing Islam in itself can't be subjected to any other way of interpreting what the Quran says.
An average Muslim is very well aware of this. Being a 'moderate' by NOT resorting to fanaticism is all very fine, but they can't deny the basic fact: the Quran is a manual of Total War, on par with Mein Kampf.
And again, that just about explains why Muslim on Muslim violence is the rule rather than the exception. Jihadis consider themselves as true believers who literally carry out the words of the Quran. So therefore, they consider all other Muslims to be non-believers in a sense: you can't moderately adhere to an ideology which is inherently fanatical and mobilises people for war. A Muslim knows via the Quran what he HAS to do.
A Muslim can't really abstain from waging Jihad. Doing so singles him out for violence directed against HIM by the "genuine" believers.
The lengths the media will go to to defend the "peaceful vast majority" of Muslims - now even inflating their numbers by a factor of 12.
Pathetic.
"one of the chief talking points of disingenuous Islamic spokesmen in the U.S. has been that Muslims have been speaking out against terrorism, but that the "Islamophobic" media ignore them."
It's very interesting you should say that, as it was the main argument put forward by Imran Ahmed in the piece he wrote for the Daily Mail on 5th January this year. There was quite a bit of criticism in the comments about these mysterious 'moderate' muslims that we hear much of but never see:
"I am the author of the article.
Many people ask why they don't hear more from 'ordinary' Muslims. Some describe it as a 'deafening silence'. The reality is that it is very difficult to get any media attention at all, if you are merely reasonable and balanced. Most Muslims don't have any 'agenda', except to live a peaceful and fulfilling life (which Britain makes possible more than most places). Extremists always get more exposure, because they make better 'news'. I had to write a book and work very hard indeed to get any media opportunities, because I don't have anything 'extreme' to say. I am very grateful to the Daily Mail for giving me this chance to express my views.
Imran Ahmad
- Imran Ahmad, London, UK, 5/1/2010 9:15"
Ref: Daily Mail Article
As we say in Denmark: Hans Christian Andersen did not live in vain.
"THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT IT
It got into the papers, it was printed; and there is no doubt about it, one little feather may easily grow into five hens."
Nothing seems to have changed much since Andersen wrote this fairy tale in 1872.
It would be insane to expect that any Muslim would condemn the explicit teachings of Allah or the Prophet, or work against the interests of his brother Muslims. Nothing said or done by any Muslim anywhere will ever concede that the Qur'an mandates the violent subjugation of all "infidels," or that Muhammad explicity instructed his followers to lie in service to Islam. The "religion of peace" canard will be propagated for as long as there are Muslims to do so.
Are there any photographs of this "demonstration"? It shouldn't be hard to count and see whether 12 or 120 were actually there. BTW, this demonstration got significant air time on news radio in NYC, including a long quote from one of the protesters (who had no hint of a foreign accent).
Mp11:
'Whats the point of this, Mr. Spencer? So you and your readers can have your weekly taqqiyah session?'
And what should be, my friend, according to your opinion? Better to hide the facts? This is what you say that it should be? In the name of an allegedly peaceful approach? Can you build peace, founding it on lies? Peace without truth is impossible to exist.
I, personally, do not like extremisms... you must have understand it, if you have read my previous posts. I, personally, am totally in the side of reaching the purely human side of the Muslims and contact it. But this can not be by not seeing the facts, even if you have the very best of intentions.
I know that Faulun Gong is the fastest growing religion but...
No wonder islam is the fastest growing religion...muslims multiply whilst standing around protesting. Amazing...islamic.
islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.
We meet daily dumbass...
No islam...Know Peace.
Know islam...throw up.
The Quran explicitly wants to railroad people into becoming Jihadis. All non-violent Muslims are on par with kuffars and should be punished by hellfire.
Have a look at the following article:
http://www.islam-watch.org/iw-new/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=300:punishment-in-islam-for-not-going-to-jihad-and-killing-kuffar-is-hellfire&catid=53:ayesha&Itemid=58
Which substantiates my claim. I suppose this more or less explains why on earth there aren't more 'moderates' outing themselves ? (apart from those who want to disperse such an image to go waging stealth Jihad behind our backs)
It is also worth noting that, once again, the American news media shirked their responsibility in the face of Muslim intimidation over the Danish Muhammad cartoons. The attempted murder of artist Kurt Westergaard was a fine opportunity to redeem themselves by printing his caricature of a short-fused Muhammad (which so thoroughly angered his followers because of its essential truth) to illustrate what the fuss was about and to push back against Muslim deemands for self-censorship (the reason the Danish cartoons were published in the first place). Instead, while only three major American papers printed any of them during the original orchestrated uproar in 2006, as far as I am aware not a single one did so this year. What an utter disgrace!
"Outside court, about a dozen people held up signs reading 'Islam is against terrorism' and 'Not in the name of Islam.'
That's in complete contradiction to what millions of other Mulsims are saying...
I wish someone could produce some photos or film of the demonstration so we could see for ourselves.
By tomorrow it will be 1,500 and within a week it will be 150,000 with a photoshop picture to boot!
Well here's a video one can assume is not from photoshop:
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/latest_video/detroit-muslim-group%3A-we-are-americans
I'd say about two to three dozen "protesters"...
Thanks for posting the video, I would agree with your rough count. This is both encouraging (there are a few Muslims who really do oppose extremism) and discouraging (as someone else pointed out it is very few, less than one in five thousand.
The MSM most nearly resembles 'The wolves in sheep's clothing who will mislead many'...They will all tell you the truth about the weather, maybe sports, and the classifieds, except for those the MSM is basically useless...That includes FOX...
From what I saw the crowd of Mahoundians was about 20...
Their theme was taqiyya and clouding the issue...
Attack on Canada, U.S is attack on Muslims: imams
Some imams stepping in a positive direction. See link below.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/01/08/canada-muslim-fatwa-attack-canada-united-states.html
"I, personally, do not like extremisms... you must have understand it, if you have read my previous posts. I, personally, am totally in the side of reaching the purely human side of the Muslims and contact it. But this can not be by not seeing the facts, even if you have the very best of intentions."
This is fine and Im not disagreeing with you, what I am criticizing is this weekly nonsense by Mr. Spencer.
Robert Spencer on Monday (following some event linked to Islam): "Muslims need to condemn this act and the fact
dont, this should tell you something"
Robert Spencer on Tuesday: "Muslims are encouraged and ordered to lie to infidels about their religion, it says so here in this or that hadith"
Robert Spencer's friends (Hugh, Raymond) on Wednesday: "Muslims are really really ordered to lie to infidels, they have to hide the true nature of their religion which commands them to kill all infidels if they dont convert to Islam"
Robert Spencer on Thursday (following a condemnation by a group of Muslims): "Well, better late than never and I hope this is sincere but given Taqqiya who can really be sure?"
Followed by Jihadwatch readers collectively screaming: "TAQQIYAH!!!"
So its really ridiculous to have Mr. Spencer call for "sincere" Muslims to step forward when he's already poisoned the well with this taqqiya nonsense (reinforced on a weekly basis by Mr. Fitzgerald)
150 attended? Wow how underwhelming. Over a billion muzlums and a few drops in the ocean stand apart from the myriads who will still cheer on the madmen terrorists from the sidelines. Even in cushy, lovey dovey multiculturally gone mad Canada, more than 10% stated their support for violent jihad in recent surveys.
It is much, much too little much, much too late.
"I, personally, do not like extremisms... you must have understand it, if you have read my previous posts. I, personally, am totally in the side of reaching the purely human side of the Muslims and contact it. But this can not be by not seeing the facts, even if you have the very best of intentions."
This is fine and Im not disagreeing with you, what I am criticizing is this weekly nonsense by Mr. Spencer.
Robert Spencer on Monday (following some event linked to Islam): "Muslims need to condemn this act and the fact
dont, this should tell you something"
Robert Spencer on Tuesday: "Muslims are encouraged and ordered to lie to infidels about their religion, it says so here in this or that hadith"
Robert Spencer's friends (Hugh, Raymond) on Wednesday: "Muslims are really really ordered to lie to infidels, they have to hide the true nature of their religion which commands them to kill all infidels if they dont convert to Islam"
Robert Spencer on Thursday (following a condemnation by a group of Muslims): "Well, better late than never and I hope this is sincere but given Taqqiya who can really be sure?"
Followed by Jihadwatch readers: "TAQQIYAH!!!"
So its really ridiculous to have Mr. Spencer call for "sincere" Muslims to step forward when he's already poisoned the well with this taqqiya nonsense (reinforced on a weekly basis by Mr. Fitzgerald)
The fatwa signed by the Canadian imamns was initiated by Syed Sowarhardy, the fellow who submitted the complaint to the Alberta Human Rights Commission against Ezra Levant for his publication of the Mohammed cartoons.
I would want to look at the small print in this fatwa before putting any trust that there is any rousing of positive change in the Moslem community. I hope there is. But I'm not holding my breath.
Concur, taken with salt.
I see a glimmer of hope this type of fatwa could at least spark debate back and forth between Muslims in the west.
While some engage in taqqiya, there's also a significant percentage of western muslims truly ignorant of their professed faith.
Mp11, World's division between 'Dar'ul Harb' and 'Dar'ul Islam' and, therefore, the fact that Islam sees itself in a warring state until all world be liberated from the alleged tyranny of the unbelievers, so that all of it be transformed to 'Dar'ul Islam' and that during this worldwide struggle lie (taqiyya) against the 'enemy' is permitted is a fact. Any honest person who studies Islam can see it very easily. I am studying Islam more than twenty years, believe me, making a beginning by studying its mysticism, as has been the case with many Westerners who had a personal existential quest. And, there is really a problem. It is impossible not to discern it in the case you have even a tiny seed of sincerity.
I have tried to ask many believing Muslims about the issue but in all cases there was no any answer essentially. Or in the best cases, where there were good intentions and a honest natural religiousness, there was, simply, ignorance. As if all those so violent teachings was not existing in the most holy scriptures of Islam. It is a very strange phenomenon indeed. And when I did say that there must be a honest effort to 'contact' the Muslims' simple human side I did mean getting them to question all those so evident contradictions which reign in their lives.
Muslims' coming to a serious crisis with themselves would prevent even, maybe, an aproaching terrible world wide catastrophe. There is no time to loose. Muslims have to examine their beliefs immediately and see what they will do.
“So its really ridiculous to have Mr. Spencer call for "sincere" Muslims to step forward when he's already poisoned the well with this taqqiya nonsense (reinforced on a weekly basis by Mr. Fitzgerald)”
MP11 wrote this after describing the week in terms of the content of the articles on JihadWatch. I like to react to that.
When people are concerned with a number of attitudes and actions of Muslims, sure they can raise the issues that concern them in a polite, respectful way. But I think Muslims would not react en masse very interested if they did. The vast majority would ignore polite complaints/ requests, considering they had all sorts of human problems that were more urgent. Considering also that Islam was not so bad, because the complainants were so nice, moderate in their complaints. Muslims would thus react like most other humans would react.
Probably only when Muslims are reminded very harshly and often about the complaints about them among the followers of other beliefs, they will get stung enough, to see the severity and urgency of the complaints enough. Just like most other humans would react.
And all the while when we look at the vast majority of Westerners, the overall attitude to Muslims is very respectful, tolerant and impartiality and non-discrimination and non-racism are strived very hard for by the authorities, media and most ordinary people.
But if Robert Spencer under those circumstances asks for sincere Muslims to step forward, then, by either Muslims or their apologists, it is considered “ridiculous” because of the “poisoning of the well by lying people”.
Oh, when will Muslims (I mean the majority of them) then ever be sincere?! Please accept the rules of free speech that apply to all humans, including Muslims. Please, stop blaming and avoiding accountability, and come forward and speak in a responsible sincere manner!!!
Dendrite said he has raised this issue with believing Muslims. So have I and I usually get the "Israel's Fault" montra so I have virtually given up. They are oblivious to any truthful historical information. Regardless of who's fault they see it, a 50-150 people protest is woefully inadequate unless by some miracle it's only the beginning of a movement.
Pretty weak stuff.
We are talking about people, so that feeble little dozen could develop into something bigger.
But all of our data and experience to date says that this group is the "tiny minority" we keep hearing about -- not the jihaddi sympathizers, who are actually the norm.
In any case, as RS says above, I won't be holding my breath.
The history of humanity is not dominated by massive campaigns of nobility ... on the contrary, people, especially large groups of people have predominantly shown themselves to be thoroughly lousy.
No reason so far to expect different from the mohammedans.
The articles above that Robert notes, and a very taqiyya-revealing NYT piece of 19 October 2001 are all concerned with Islamic image management:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/19/us/nation-challenged-american-muslims-influential-american-muslims-temper-their.html?pagewanted=1&pagewanted=print
Inevitably, Islam will have more and more of these bad hair days.
But seriously, all infidels are also drawn in to this mess, collateral damage at best, the specified objects of deadly and hateful core Islamic texts that command the alienation and if necessary extermination of the non-Muslim "other" at worst.
Anything less than mass rallies in Mecca, Karachi, Cairo and Tehran demanding the removal of all deadly and hateful elements from Islam's sacred texts remains nothing but image management.
"Moderate Muslim" discovered!
Don't laugh: "Imams issue fatwa against terrorism"
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2010/01/09/Imams-issue-fatwa-against-terrorism/UPI-23331263019227/
Look who's behind it:
Syed Soharwardy
a vicious, anti-Semitic bigot who trivializes the Jewish Holocaust, spreads blood libels against the Jewish Talmud, says Israel is perpetrating a Holocaust of its own against Palestinians, publicly calls for sharia law to be implemented in Canada, and participated in a pro-terrorist rally in the Jewish neighbourhood of Calgary, replete with a flag of Hezbollah.
http://ezralevant.com/2009/12/calgarys-official-jews-try-to.html
"So its really ridiculous to have Mr. Spencer call for "sincere" Muslims to step forward when he's already poisoned the well with this taqqiya nonsense (reinforced on a weekly basis by Mr. Fitzgerald)"
I agree; there's a fundamental incoherence, if not a paradox or contradiction here; and it's the fundamental incoherence of any asymptotic view of the problem of Islam -- a different sort of incoherence than pertains to PC MC, which really does believe that Islam itself is, on the whole, good and harmless, and that the vast majority of Muslims are also good and harmless in their support of and devotion to Islam. In despite of the fomer fundamental incoherence, there seems to have grown over the years among the hoi ochloi of Jihad Watchers a fundamental -- and healthy -- intolerance and radical suspicion of all Muslims; though a significant number of irrationally sentimental holdouts persist.
The trouble with the protesters is that they believe, or would like to believe, or pretend to believe, that Islam is inherently a religion of peace. Now I am no Muslim, but it didn't take me a long time to work out - from the texts, from history, from current events - that Islam is NOT a religion of peace. The "peaceful religion being hijacked" line is so weak, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, so how can they possibly trot it out again? But they did.
One clue is that the interviewee seemed upset about Muslims being killed if the plane went down on a Muslim area. The problem with multiculturalism and modern methods of terror are that some of the believers - non-jihadi Muslims who like to "stay at home" (thus earning the contempt of Mohammed, do they know?) - go down too. Ouch.
I stopped posting for a while whilst I re-considered my view of islam...the possibility that it might reform itself.
I posted this earlier elsewhere but I think bears re-posting considering the bend of the conversation.
This tiny protest changes nothing.
Stick a fork in me...I'm done. Done believing that islam will ever give up Blood and Death.
With over a billion peaceful muslims out there, one would think that they could get a "tiny minority of extremists" to cut the crap.
Ain' happenin'.
The silence from the ummah is deafening. Their actions against their "misled" brethren undetectable. In short, they approve. And of course the fact that those that suggest that the "religion of peace" could use some modification end up dead or surrounded by bodyguards and alarm systems tends to undermine that whole peace of islam thing.
islam must cease to exist. The Brits put an end to a religion that practiced Blood and Death. The Thugees. To the best of my knowledge, that religion is dead. True enough, it didn't have the numbers that islam has, but it's dead nonetheless. The death of islam must follow. We killed Polio, and many said that would never happen, that it was impossible. So...
For the last 3 years, I have supported the notion that islam can be reformed, that those brave muslims that spoke out against the ayatoilets of Blood and Death were the future. They are the past. Their efforts are wasted, brave as they are.
The only path remaining is the path to the death of islam.
Those that stand with the wicked, that stand with those that spread islam by the sword will die. I've said this before...when a field is full of wheat and weeds all are plowed under. Unlike wheat, people have the ability to remove themselves from the weeds...walk away...and they had better do so soon.
islam is slavery and slavery cannot be suffered to exist by free men. Slavery threatens all those that would be and are free. This makes islam the enemy of all free men.
What weapon will kill islam? Truth. Get the Truth out there, get people to see mo (Piss Be Upon Him.) for exactly what he was and the "religion" will be shunned and will die of neglect. For those that ignore the sexual perversions and murderous nature of the false prophet, for those that choose to ignore the Truth and instead choose to embrace the notion of islamic supremacism and live the lies of islam...Hell awaits them.
No human being can possibly support a religion that approves of and promotes pedophilia. This is a perversion that cannot be allowed to exist. No religion that calls for the death of all those that do not submit to that religion can be allowed to exist.
islam declared war on freedom over 1400 years ago. The world must recognize that fact and proceed accordingly.
Where Truth fails and islam kills there is only one solution. Plow it all under and plant new seed. I don't care what religion, if any, replaces it...as long as it allows men to choose freely. As long as women are not treated as cattle. As long as that religion does not condone sodomizing babies. That for me, tears it. This perverted, twisted, filthy excuse for a religion must die.
No islam...Know Peace.
Know islam...throw up.
So that's who those people were!If Islam is to be seen as a
religion of peace,it need a thorough reformation.
Exaggeration is a well-known tool of Muslim spokesmen and apologists. For example, they keep raising the imaginary number of Muslims in America. Though there are fewer than 3 million Muslims, with at least 2 million of them being members of the unorthodox Nation of Islam, leaving at most one million “real” Muslims – and my, don’t they get around, to judge by the daily domestic Jihad news ---the numbers keep rising and rising. And so of course do the number of Muslims in the world, from 1 to 1.2 to 1.3 to 1.5 and now what is it up to? I’ve even seen someone attempt to casually pass off a figure of “2 billion” hoping no one would take issue (no one did).
All part of the same thing. Facts don’t matter. Winning for Islam, convincing for Islam, overpowering for Islam, because in Islam the object of worship is Islam itself – that’s all that matters.
Here's "Arab Detroit's" call for the protest (better called "Muslim Detroit", with its logo featuring a mosque silhouetted against the skyline of Detroit):
http://www.arabdetroit.com/events.php?id=1251
This demonstration was organized by the Council of Islamic Organizations of Michigan.
Here's that same organization in April of last year, condemning profiling and the FBI urging Muslims to cooperate in reporting cases of terrorism. In other words, they may be "against terrorism", but they aren't going to do much to help prevent it.
"Council of Islamic Organizations of Michigan Upset Over Muslim Profiling by FBI"
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/197288.php
The Incredible Expanding Rally??
Isn't this just another way of saying 'Exploding'??
Are you engaging in political correctness Mr.Spencer?! ;p