This just in from my friend Paul Belien:
Short session. The court ruled that it is competent to deal with the case. It restricted the list of 18 witnesses which Wilders had asked to be heard to only three people: the Dutch Arabists Jansen and Admiraal, plus Wafa Sultan.
Hans Jansen's work on Islam is superb and groundbreaking, and he will be an excellent witness, as will Admiraal and the exemplary freedom fighter Wafa Sultan. Nonetheless, this decision indicates the court's bias against Wilders, and so does not bode well for him. He had wanted to call Mohammed Bouyeri, the Qur'an-inspired murderer of Theo Van Gogh, who would have proven his point immediately, and others who would have buttressed the truth of what he has said. That the court has hindered his ability to do this shows that the railroad tracks are being laid into place.
Why did the word "kangeroo" suddenly pop into my head?
Sorry - "kangaroo". Must drink Diet Coke.
What kind of legal system limits the number of relevant witnesses a defendant can call? It sounds like the Netherlands has a human rights issue or two in addition to Islamification. The history of the Netherlands is paralleling that of the U.S. in that great men sacrificed and died during World War II to give freedom to the nation, only to see cowards and disciples of political correctness take it away.
From post above... only to see cowards and disciples of political correctness take it away.
That's about right...The lunar-ticks are running the asylum...
What the Dutch court is proving to me, is that the Netherlands is a good place to stay away from...Until at least Geert becomes PM...Geert's three witnesses need to be careful that they too might get arrested for telling the truth...
Quite a justice system the Dutch have going there. The State decides what DEFENSE witnesses are relevant. No possible chance for corruption, huh?
Maybe they don't have the money to pay for the trial to drag on so long after all they have a huge social payments system to support to keep all of the Muslims housed and fed. And once sharia law is up and running it is much more efficient anyway as all it takes is for some imam to wave his hands around and spout some mumbo jumbo and declare the sentence and it is done lickity split. All of this drawn out infidel arguing back and forth with evidence and witnesses is really just so much waste of time and energy.
You're right, this is a kangaroo court, pure censorship. And this is happening in Europe's most tolerant country where people are friendly and composed. I don't understand the judiciary and the politicians are hopeless cases anyway. But the Dutch people are really different. Geert Wilders will become Dutch PM one day and afterwards... President of the United States of Europe. Let me dream a little bit. In the meantime, I'm wondering how are the local elections going in the Netherlands?
I've said it before, democracy is no match for islam. If folks are waiting for our courts, governments, army or church to stand up to islam, they can forget it!
Good luck to Mr Wilders. I truly mean it and admire the bloke, but against islam, our legal system is totally ineffective. I bet my bottom dollar that the judges in this case have been pressurised by politicians who are in turn scared witless by the potential threat of jihad and the loss of votes from muslim bloc.
In the end democracy is its own worst enemy.
I predict that this "trial" will fizzle out and islamic influence will grow unabated.
"The lunar-ticks are running the asylum..."
You couldn't find a more perfect example.
Someone named - Simon Admiraal - an Arabist - who in one article takes on Tariq Ramadan - in response to a video debate between Frits Bolkestein and Ramadan - Admiraal claims Ramadan is against integration - among other things wishes to Islamize public schools.
"He had wanted to call Mohammed Bouyeri, the Qur'an-inspired murderer of Theo Van Gogh, who would have proven his point immediately..."
I'm still not sure what that point is.
If Wilders's point is that the Koran can inspire some tiny minority of Muslims to violence, this can be easily dispensed with through the PC MC mechanisms of the TMEHK (Tiny Minority of Extremists Hijacking the Koran) and the Tu Quoque (or, rather, the Ego Quoque, if not the Ego Peior).
However, the problem here is that the Dutch authorities who made this ruling to prevent Wilders from calling Bouyeri suspect that Wilders has another point up his sleeve; and they are not unreasonable to so suppose, for Wilders persists in not specifying whether or not he implicitly widens the problem of Koranic inspiration, incoherently remaining in suspension between on the one hand ardently maintaining that the Koran is socially dangerous, but on the other hand, saying he has "nothing against Muslims" -- who comprise the concrete substance of the "socially" he is otherwise so deeply concerned over. If Muslims qua Muslims are not a problem according to Wilders, then how is the Koran going to become dangerous in Dutch society? Are Korans going to sprout arms and legs and go around killing people?
So the Dutch government prosecuting him have good reason to suspect that Wilders harbors a wider alarmist concern about Muslims in general precisely because of his alarmist concern about the Islam they follow -- and therefore, they do not want to give Wilders the opportunity to make the implicit linkage between Bouyeri and all Muslims who follow Islam (even while he may continue, inooherently and disingenuously to insist explicitly he is doing no such thing).
One can only hope that the Dutch courts - already so politicized that they are prosecuting a man for thought-crime, will be so terrified of the prospect of a public reaction that results in his party winning a huge majority in the next national election that they either drop the case in mid-trial or render a judgment of not guilty. Regardless, let us not fear the result...this is a win-win situation. Geert Wilders is on his way to becoming by far the most important European statesman of our time. The fact that he may suffer the indignities of incarceration means little when we consider he's been sleeping in army bases and police stations for the past several years to protect himself from Muslim terrorists.
Hesperado wrote:
...he Dutch authorities who made this ruling to prevent Wilders from calling Bouyeri...
................
Wilders tried to call *fourteen other witnesses*besides Bouyeri who were disallowed by the court. I didn't think they would let the imprisoned Jihad murderer Mohammed Bouyeri into the courtroom, in all honesty—although I had hoped that the defense could enter some of Bouyeri's horrifying Jihad statements into the record.
In any case, I doubt most of Wilders' other witnesses were disallowed for the same reasons that Bouyari likely was. The Dutch courts just want to get on with their persecution—er, "prosecution"—of Wilders, as unhindered by a reasoned defense as possible.
...Geert's three witnesses need to be careful that they too might get arrested for telling the truth...
-------------
Sad commentary on the Western "free" world. In Canada our "hate speech" legislation that protects people from "religious-based hate" includes any word or action that offends a religious group "even if the statements are TRUE" (my emphasis).
What kind of insane philosophy criminalizes telling the truth?
IMO, the Dutch court screams of COWARDICE! Watch as they cower in the corner peeing their pants. I guess they're afraid of causing further upset to the mohammedan mafia. What cowards. Well, if that's their attitude, then the mo-mafia have already won. The Dutch court needs to wake up and side with truth by standing up to these islamic thugs. If you won't, then who else will? Again, what cowards.
"What kind of insane philosophy criminalizes telling the truth?" CornHolio | February 3, 2010
I don't know, but it's certainly not what the framers of the Constitution of the United States had in mind....
As a Dutch citizen living in the united states of America having the opportunity to look at my country from far:
I can tell you I'm so ashamed of the Dutch government!!!!!
However I also am not so afraid for the outcome of this trial, I'm more afraid that something will happen to this courage's
man!!
Because having lived my whole life in the Netherlands I know how afraid the government is for him!
The Dutch are a nation of complainers not so much known for there (political) actions however when a Dutchmen goes out to protest on the streets
it is a strong signal for the government to look out!
Pim Fortuyn was the first who publicly had the nerve to agitate against Muslim totalitarianism he was killed for the it!
His dead struck a strong cord under de Dutch people.
Every time I go back to visit my families I'm in shock to see how my city has changed for the worse!
I know how it feels to be botched in by Muslim culture, I had a beautiful old house with a big square in front of it where children could play
safely, in the four years I lived there I saw mosques arise on every corner, I saw native Dutchmen sell their houses to be taken over by Muslims.
I saw little girls raising their siblings because their mothers had to stay inside hidden under their bur ka's.
My own children not wanting to play outside because they were the minority who didn't speak 'their language' and therefore not accepted, BY CHILDREN!!!!!!
When Chanukah came around we had to burn our candles in the back of the house! Our synagogues are hidden and armed behind high walls there is no store
where you can buy something so pivotal as candles or kosher food, not in the open that is. It may be clear that I didn't lived in Amsterdam,
I lived in the second capital of the Netherlands The political capital that is The Hague (Den Haag)!
I saw Geert Wilders movie, it was chilling he didn't have to speak he only had to show imams sending out their murderous hate messages!
their murderous actions like 9/11, the beheading of a Jewish boy,the desecration of body's of American soldiers by a posy etc.
We have waited long for a man like Geert, it's time things change because we are becoming strangers in our own country!
A country who claims to be a democratic nation who claim to honor the freedom of speech, equal rights for man and woman, gay marriages and so on and on.
But in heign site you have the left who stand behind a nation who condemn al of these freedoms, How contradicting!
I know I'm not much of a writer, I'm a simple soul who fears for the future of her family and sad to say is very much afraid of the course the united states is going
under Barak Hussein Obama.
"The court ruled that it is competent to deal with the case." -- from the story.
It would seem that a second opinion on the matter of whether the court is "competent" is called for. Snark aside, I interpret this to mean that the court considers that the case falls within its jurisdiction. Does anyone know the structure of the Dutch legal system with regard to the appeals process in case Wilers is "convicted"?
Well here is a reaction from The Netherlands it self.
The prosecutor in The Netherlands made it lead case out of the comparison Koran/Meinkampf. Wich aint so weird when you've actually have some knowledge about the Koran.
The point is.. The Dutch public is very devided by actually people that know the truth and people that think to know the truth but cant be bothered to do some background check. Meaning 60% of the people (including muslims) can tell you with an iron face that Islam equals Peace and is a religion like any other. How did it get so far? It got so far by years of propaganda about the "good" sides and silencing everything from the bad one. I even remember as a child beeing fed with the dogma's everyone believes today.
But back to the point. Everyone in The Netherlands knows this process is a fraud and has been directed very carefully by wilders his political opponents, but there is no proof for this and there never will be. But here as well are the so called camps "people for and people against Wilders" and as in any other case.. the PC/socialists that yell loudest when they see "unjust" against "the weaker (losers or parasites)", tend to look away when it has to do something about their political opponents and mean to say "this is just for the cause" not realising the consequences.
As for the court.. In a normal situation they d have to check if what Wilders had sayed that have been so immoral and offending for the folowers of the prophet is true or not. And there is where it gets tricky and only time will tell.
The Islam scolars oviously can spread out in detail whats in the koran and can easely state the truth value of Wilders words and cause. The court either knows this and will take this away from the public eye (what you dont tell the masses.. they ll never complain about) and when that happends Wilders is done for. Or their testemony's are beeing made public (wich i dont think, looking at our MSM) and all of a sudden the Koran will be on trial and Wilders has won its point.. Meaning the court cant do anything else but free Wilders of charges when it comes to insulting Islam (i dont know about the other charges.. they had so many.. you d almost think they really really want to convict him :P)
Anyway.. My main point is probebly.. That the mainstream media is they key to the ending of the hole proces. It looks today as if the media is bringing out only fragmented and selective new to act like they inform but keep the main public as dumb as it is today. I actually know for a fact, because i ve seen the whole first court session wich took over 6 hours and all the media showed whas 5 minutes (not one exeption).
But if this changes and the main public gets to hear the "un convenient truth" we might have some interesting times ahead.
FYI they court is a 3 headed judge (we dont have a jury here in The Netherlands) and the hearing of the witnesses will not be done in public but behind closed doors.
And sorry for my poor English as I am not English by nature.
If he is convicted he can only appeal at the European Court of Human Rights.
Kunta,
Many thanks for your perspective on the issue.
But if this changes and the main public gets to hear the "un convenient truth" we might have some interesting times ahead.
I sure hope so, for your sake and ours. Please keep us updated!
BTW, your English is quite good, so don't apologize.
I strongly suggest a boycott on everything Dutch, especially tourism until the government and or judiciary allows Geert to defend himself, and does away with this outrageous legal rule of theirs--ownership of their country depends on it, not to mention the fate of the world with the example they are setting with this joke of a trial.
Please world, join me in a total boycott of Holland until they get the message. Send it to the UNSC as if that corrupt organization would intervene...
Hiya Hesp, this is how I see it. I believe Wilders is saying that ASSUMING "average" Western Muslims do not have violent intentions then he has no problem with people who identify with any deity.
As you and I know, the real problem lies not as much with the actual violent 1400 year old document as it does with those who preach the violence in it in the local mosques and prison and ex-gang-bangers on the streets. Our streets. The gang leaders, plain and simple. Wilders needs to be able to protect himself vigorously from them and it ain't happening.
The extemist religious groups have decided it is easier to play the eternal whipping boys of anything not Muslim, and that those religions are responsible for their failures (at least until such time as they can dominate the infidels) are ripe pickings for the same old hate mongers. KILL the oppressors that keep us in the ghetto! We don't own our own problems, they do!
They are all the same dangerous opportunist purveyors of hate except that the Muslims are operating on a worldwide scale rather than on a local scale like just only the US, and that is where the danger lies. The survival of the West. Wilders has every right to defend himself, but is blatantly being denied it. It is flat wrong.
Later.