Five Muslim soldiers arrested at Fort Jackson for trying to poison the food supply

They were arrested just before Christmas, but we are only learning about it now, almost two months later. Why the long delay? Was this yet another coverup? Who ordered it, and why?

“CBN Exclusive: Five Muslim Soldiers Arrested at Fort Jackson in South Carolina,” from CBN News, February 18 (thanks to all who sent this in):

CBN News has learned exclusively that five Muslim soldiers at Fort Jackson in South Carolina were arrested just before Christmas. It is unclear whether the men are still in custody. The five were part of the Arabic Translation program at the base.

The men are suspected of trying to poison the food supply at Fort Jackson.

A source with intimate knowledge of the investigation, which is ongoing, told CBN News investigators suspect the “Fort Jackson Five” may have been in contact with the group of five Washington, DC area Muslims that traveled to Pakistan to wage jihad against U.S. troops in December. That group was arrested by Pakistani authorities, also just before Christmas….

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  1. says

    But don’t say they were conducting Jihad, even if they say it, many times over. “They are not jihadists, for jihad is a holy struggle.” That’s categorical, and that’s from John Brennan, the man whose intelligence and grasp of the threat you and your family are trusting with your lives, for he is Deputy Chief of Counterterrorism. He’s a man who knows. He spent five years — or was it six? — in the Middle East. No one can fool him.

    And if you need further proof that this has nothing to do with Jihad — that is, the struggle to remove all obstacles (especially Infidel obstinance, and a refusal to surrender) to the spread, and then the dominance, of Islam — just wait for the statements of Janet Napolitano, the overall head of Homeland Security. But don’t wait to see what Barack Obama has to say; he said everything he has to say about Islam in his Cairo speech, the one where Muslims are described as having contributed so much to America ever since its founding, and Islam itself as simply one of the most splendid doctrines in the history of mankind.

    These people are experts. They know whereof they speak. Don’t you dare try to question their authority, their expertise. Don’t you dare try to second-guess them. They know. That’s why they have those jobs. They study Islam, and Jihad, practically round the clock. Nothing gets by them.

  2. says

    If I were in the military, I would want this matter of Muslim soldiers addressed frankly, sans PC BS. It’s bad enough to have to deal with the enemy in front of you w/o having to worry about getting shot in the back…

  3. says

    I heard about this on the way home, but there was, of course, no mention that these loathesome pieces of shit are Muslim.

    As discussed here before: Muslims cannot be trusted. Period.

  4. says

    Oh my! What a shame! If one is to study Jihad Watch I think by now it would be absolutely clear that poisoning infidel food supply is a form of Islamic Jihad. JW has posted such attacks on non Muslims by Mohammedans, from use of human feces to use of poison to cause great harm to non Muslims as a form of greater Jihad. I see more non Muslims being harmed and killed by Islamic Jihadis. This is the reality.

  5. says

    You could have blinked and missed this story on Fox News. Our Military has been infiltrated by Jihadists top to bottom and yet a story like this barely warrants a mention? Fox News needs to get off the Saudi payroll now! There is real conflict of interest taking place here. Fox News should be all over a story like this but it seems like they are trying to gloss it over instead. Go figure, follow the money.

  6. says

    When did the US become the toadying, venal, cowardly dhimmi’s we see in Europe? I suppose we’ll now have various government and media outlets trot out Islamic apologists singing in unison, ‘Islam is a religion of peace’ along with articles by Muslimah’s entitled ‘What my hijab means to me’. This is how it has played out in Europe and will likely play out here in the US.

  7. says

    It was just a matter of time, as we here know. As savsiv points out, food poisoning/tampering has been posted about here on many occasions.

    At least they caught them. How many more are out there though?

    Note to self: eat local, eat at home :)

  8. says

    Some are wondering…

    The reason for the delay in the story being told in the press is that Army Criminal Investigation Division, the detectives doing all the work at FJSC, don’t tell secrets, don’t leak leads, don’t blow cases. They would have had to get permission from CID Command at Falls Church, VA before releasing any info to anyone outside CID.

  9. says

    That does it! No more chocolate cakes that come from a military base.

    To answer your question Alexander, the New York Times will not print this because they find Tiger Woods’ first jogging outing more newsworthy. Same goes for Fox news.

  10. says

    Meanwhile, Syrian Jews, of which there are some 100,000 in the New York area alone and whose native language is usually Arabic, are unwanted as translators:

    Why would our authorities not want native speakers, especially those whose personal experiences would make them ideal partners for combating Islamic terror?

    I think it only “natural” that a Muslim Arab could not be trusted in this field due to the bias factor alone.

    During World War Two we could count on loyal citizens of Japanese heritage to contribute to the war effort. We are not facing the same situation now.

    This is worrisome.

  11. says

    Gee, I hope they promptly read these nice muslims their Miranda rights…you know, so they can have the full protection of our laws. I mean, we wouldn’t want to be UNFAIR just because they tried to kill our soldiers on their own base, right? It was just another attempted “Man-Caused Disaster.” Just another coincidence that they happened to be…muslims

    I don’t want to pay for these bastards’ prison-time. Swift & summary execution or deportation!

    Yeah, like that’ll happen…

  12. says

    Foxnews is a great disappointment. I read their blurb on this and it was sanitized and bleached to the point it had zero information.

  13. says


    Most JW posters give a clear understanding of the world around us. Yet, the men who are likely ‘in-the-know’ (politicians, media, CIA, FBI, et al) don’t get it. It would seem likely they know, but it seems, they don’t. Anybody out there, on the street, knows the muslims are not to be trusted. Why, then, this elephant-in-the-room, seem so hard to explain to the ‘in-the-know’ crowd?

    The world seems to be upside-down.

  14. says

    So far we have to put it up as rumor, or maybe even a set-up.
    Early reports are almost always wrong, so lets wait to see this is all about.

  15. says

    The day after the London bombing I visited a local kebab shop. All the owner could talk about was loss of business. Not one jot of thought for the dead and maimed. After taking as much as I could of his whining I walked out in disgust.

    About a week later I and a friend went to a Pakistani owned curry house where the hostility was so powerful we, after quickly eating the meal, upped and left.

    A woman whose husband owns a well known local muslim restaurant launched a brand of curry pastes, then was lauded by no less than Cherie Blair as businesswoman of the year. About six months later hubby’s diner is closed, infested with insects and covered in rat droppings.

    Result? No more’Indian’, as it is known in Britain, food for me in five years.

    I’ve advocated similar to friends and following the cartoon demo’s demanding death to infidels, extended this boycott to Pakistani shops and businesses.

    Why should I or anyone else pay good money to people who hate us? Or worse, as those banners unashamedly proclaimed would kill us all?

    If more took this stance you can bet your bottom dollar that the penny would drop faster than the takings.

    Hit them where it hurts. Let them know for a change how we feel.

    Our Pakistanis love the money and the trappings it brings. They drive ostentatious cars. The homes are chock full of baubles. Deprive them of all that and they’d either leave or think twice before insulting with gross impunity the country they’ve chosen to live in.

    Either is fine by me.

  16. says

    If there is any good news in this at all, it is that president Obama is going to get whipped in National Security, Foreign Relations, and the overall trust deficit in all Americans who just happen to side with Israel over the Arabs post 09/11 and before and since, and that is a sizable amount of people, people that are getting wise to what this administration is really all about and are not happy about it in many ways.

    My formal prediction is that because of this particular issue and how it relates to our national security and trust in our president, Obama is gone in 2012. You heard it here first, this is a one-term president thank G-d.

    The Republicans need a real stand up winner this go-around, perhaps Rudy Giuliani this time? to run against him though. Someone tough on terror and the religion that breeds it. Untouchable with any of the slime bound to be slung his/her way. Someone with the balls to finally end this war before it really starts.

  17. says

    The real story here isn’t the poisoning attempt, it’s their translation duties. How many of their translations are corrupted, and how much of the stuff they saw was passed on to hostile powers?

  18. says


    Last year a Muslim in South Wales was prosecuted for tampering with food in supermarkets and self service stores.

    It turned out that he was mixing urine with liquid faeces in a small plant spray then unwrapping food to be doused with the foul mixture and then placed back on the shelf.

    Now there has to be some kind of mindset here.

    Although an immigrant from Pakistan who via the good grace of our immigration authorities had come of his own free will to these islands, he felt such animosity towards the infidel that he could hatch up this ‘revenge’.

    Ingrate is as mild as it gets when describing such a specimen.

    Loathsome by any normative reasoning is near, yet still cannot describe the motivation of a man who forced the unbelievers to literally eat his shit and piss.

    Is this what it is coming to? A hatred so profound that innocent people are subjected to such disgusting practices?

    It seems nothing is out of bounds when Mohammedism comes into play. Those innocents were mere fodder for the eternal emnity and making them eat his excrement must have given him such a perverted rush.

    What other motive could there be?

  19. says

    The Army is saying the investigation is still in progress, but also that, “there is no credible information to support the allegations”.


    Why the HELL would you make a statement like that about an investigation that is still ongoing?

    Unless of course your superiors have already told you what the result of the investigation will be, before it even started.

    Our military has been completely emasculated by political correctness.

    Sometimes I still have hope that America can wake up, start fighting, and eventually win.

    Other times I think that it’s hopeless and that we’ve already gone past the point of no return.

    Today falls into the second category.

  20. says

    Regardless of the “Truth” we should demand through our Congressman and Senators a thorough amd well reported investigation. The last time The USA had this kind of problem to this degree was during the Civil War. We dealt with it more harshly against our own fellow Americans than we do against these Muslim infiltrators.

  21. says

    We must never allow Muslims to become a political stronghold in America. Political correctness must come to an end. If we value our way of life, we must take our country back from the extreme leftists “ruling” this country. Muslims have proven to be intolerant killers.

  22. says

    They poisoned the food supply ? How did they do that ?

    I imagine they were defecating in the food supplies, keeping a bus load of laxatives handy and making damn’ sure they didn’t turn their back towards Mecca. (otherwise, it wouldn’t be halal and therefore still safe to eat)

    Muhahahahahah !

  23. says

    Well, George W. Bush, tongue-kisser and hand-holder of Saudi male royalty, you certainly set the scene.

    Tell us again George about how Islam is a “religion of peace”, please do.

    Just what price would you place on the Americans killed and maimed by these devout Islamic poisoners and American patriots, George, hmmmm?

    Sharia law enshrined in Iraq constitution, check.
    Sharia law enshrined in Afghanistan constitution, check.
    George W Bush, the Alfred E. Neuman of American Presidents.
    What a frickin’ disaster.

    Obama carries the torch.

  24. says

    If one can temporarily compartmentalize and bracket out the danger, the horror and the tragedy of this escalating situation, the PC MC West persisting in standing hip-deep in De Nile while deadly Muslims metastasize all around them becomes a rather comically absurd spectacle.

    Perhaps in about 50 to 100 years from now, an established film director will make a move like Dr. Strangelove where, instead of mercilessly lampooning his own West of then recent memory for its caricatured and putative paranoia & phobia about the enemy (as Kubrick couldn’t help doing in his Leftish disease however otherwise gifted he may have been), he will mercilessly lampoon his own West, of what will be the recent memory, for its all-too real denial of an all-too real and deadly enemy.

    And the day that an established film director could make such a movie, and sell it to moviehouses all over the West without fear of exploding Muslims, will be approximately the same day the West will have woken up and taken concrete actions to secure its societies from Muslims — which is why I put my hypothetical future director at about 50 to 100 years.

  25. says

    Kosovar Albanians at Fort Dix, Kosovar Albanian Betim Kaziu in NYC, Palestinian Nidal Hasan finally succeding at Fort Hood what Albanians planned to do at Fort Dix, now Fort Jackson … . To be continued … . This is but a warm -up … .
    The Serbs have been there before. They tried “multiculturalism” and “respect for ethnic rights” in Kosovo to the greatest extent imaginable, long before the West did. And Kosovar Albanians, the beneficiaries of those generous policies, responded with an organized camoaign of murder throughout the ’80s, including Albanian soldiers in the Yugoslav military shooting their Serb bankmates in their sleep, and trying to poison food and drinking water. And relentless evil harrassment, abuse, kidnapping, rape, torture and murder of Serb and other non-Muslim civilians in Kosovo, causing wave after wave of flight of non-Albanians from Kosovo. Because in the ’80s the destruction of the Serb state was not the West’s goal, even the Western media reported some of those events without lying:

    Click up some of other links at the end of this article.
    And when the Serbs had at long last tried to respond to this horrible abuse and defend themselves and their families from terrorists, in their own country, the US and the entire Western NATO alliance went to war on Serbia on the terrorists’ side. The unspeakable evil they did unto the Serb people. All to please the Muslims. And then came the Muslim gratitude … . It was the so-called “conservative” prime-minister Jose-Maria Aznar of Spain who suggested the bombing of Serb Radio and Television for their opinions, and the burning murder of all personnel inside. The Kosovar Albanians’ reward for him? They supplied the explosives for the 3/11 train bombings in Madrid that killed 191 Spaniards. England’s Sociopath-in-Chief Tony Blair was even worse than Clinton in his bloodthirsty push for the war on Serbia. The Kosovar Albanians’ reward for him? They supplied explosives for the 7/7 bombings in London. And the 9/11 in our country did not surprise me at all. For this is the kind of reward those who appease the Muslims get.
    The Americans and the Europeans now walk in the Serbs’ bloody shoes. And there’s still a long walk ahead … .

    Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

  26. says


  27. says

    Islam openly declares its aim as: a global theocratic terror state.

    What does anyone with any sense in the infidel find acceptible about that plan?

    It hasn’t been a secret since 622 A.D.

    Who isn’t paying attention?

    Other than… the majority of leaders, thinkers, politicians, religious figures, media elites, teachers, entertainers and popular writers and artists in the West.

    With frikkin’ few damned exceptions.

    The colossal cowardice and craven-ness is confounding.

  28. says

    “Differentiate between the evil in the ideology and the individual who may have nothing to do with the other factors. That’s all.”

    I think most people on this site understand that difference. Lets be clear on the definition of muslim, when someone on this site say ‘muslims cannot be trusted’. Muslim is one who follows the ideology of Islam.

    In your example of an athiest ‘muslim’, the person is not muslim at all. Most of us don’t have a problem with an athiest, who was accidentally born in a muslim family.

    And the moderate muslim is a potential threat, if and when he discovers the true message of Islam. So what was your point?

  29. says

    Jim Foster, I am in a situation a lot like yours. In Rotterdam, Holland, where I live there are many Muslims, who are fine citizens. I know and work with a lot of them, and they are very likable and humoristic, with good character and work.

    And the vast majority of Dutch do not think any less of them for being Muslims, let alone that they would discriminate against them in the slightest. The opposite is more true; I notice among colleagues and family members this tendency to protect them. From what? Hate-incitement as these “kafir”-citizens see any and all criticism on Islam, the religion, and about the actions of “a small minority of Muslims that are terroristic and oppressive” as hate-incitement, demonizing.

    Many people around me also judge it is fear-mongering to talk about the problems with Islam. And the current prevalent attitude about criticism on Islam is that it is hate-inciting, unnecessary and sinister fear-mongering, that it is unjust because bad human behavior is universal and all humans and human groups were and are doing it. I guess we live in a strong political-correct city.

    This makes bringing up the subject of criticism on Islam unwelcome in most gatherings. It means that talking about it really is taboo, not listened too, automatically gainsayed with TU QUOQUE, judgments of fear- and hate-mongering.

    This in turn leads to, it seems, very ignorant people, concerned about many issues, like global warming, and about some extreme-right-takeover, but not about a comprehensive, reasonable, respectful balanced informed debate about Democracy and Islam.

    And certainly not in a global context, as I think it should be seen, NOT only in a national context as most Dutch, including Dutch Muslims now do if they are compelled to react to Islam-criticism at all. As if Muslims are primarily loyal to Holland before to the worldwide Ummah!

    The fault as I see it in many of those nice Muslims, and their kind-hearted but ignorant defenders, is:
    I. They refuse to let Islam-protesters be heard to their hearts content, with due respect.
    II. They are themselves often so ignorant about both Democracy and Islam and so vague about it and they fail to get much, much clearer what the opinion and the aim of Islam and Muslims is about Democracy and Islam in the 21st century. And about: the unbalance between rights of minorities in both democratic and Islamic countries,
    III. They themselves give ongoing relentless criticism of the democracies America and Israel, but stay neutral or silent or even supportive towards Iran, Saudi Arabia, sworn enemies of democracy.

    The Muslims, who have the Ummah, the reverence of Mohammed, the Quran and for most of them the most influental Hadith in common, are indeed otherwise very divers and cannot all be painted with the same brush. As they themselves claim.

    But the fault of democratic peoples nowadays often is;
    I. That they paint by the same brush all sorts of religions, or cultures. While some arguably are much better than others.
    II. That they instead of painting all Muslims black, which they want to avoid at all costs, now paint all Muslims white, and close their minds for all evidence about Muslims striving for a theocracy and hating infidels.

    For these reasons, because of which I am often frustrated and angry, I will support Geert Wilders, so that if he wins the next elections, the issue will have to be addressed by Muslims and Political Correct Democratic people.

  30. says

    The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)
    also available in French intro+Chapter 1 so far
    “Le Guide Politiquement Incorrect de l’Islam’ disponible en Français intro+chapitre 1
    don’ t hesitate to share this with your french speaking friends using social networks buttons available on the website or email share options.

  31. says

    The fact that these perpetrators are Muslims is irrelevant, save for the fact that they are adherents to Islam. Commenting on the motives and merits of individual Muslims is valueless and dangerous, for it speaks nothing about Islam itself.

    Robert has reiterated and demonstrated the cogent point that there really is no effective or tangible way to discern between the nominal-only Muslims who have not or not yet espoused their piety to Islam, and the full-blown jihadists.

    When one understands and accepts that reality we should see less comments like those by Jim Foster, who wrote:

    “Differentiate between the evil in the ideology and the individual who may have nothing to do with the other factors. That’s all.”

    Now that sounds like someone who has indeed missed the point, especially based on the aforementioned reality.

  32. says

    …and yes I have had many Mohammedans come and eat pork with me and really embraced non Muslim cultures. Some have even started to protect various minorities in the Islamic world, they have begun to help build Temples, Churches and Synagogues. They now even like dogs and pigs. Not to mention like the Hindus start to respect cows and even turn vegetarian. Oh and they have stopped kidnapping young non Muslim girls: Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists. They even begin to say that Mohammad was a violent, murdering pedophile, bigot, rapist and thug. They are reeducating and Muslims that the Koran is a violent ideology full of hate and destruction towards non Muslims. They have begin to apologize to the millions and millions of non Muslims who have been killed by Islamic Jihad and whose lands they have taken. They have apologized for the sexual slaves and harems. Okay maybe I will just hate the ideology since Mohammedans do not espouse.

  33. says

    Awake commented concering me:

    “When one understands and accepts that reality we should see less comments like those by Jim Foster, who wrote:

    “Differentiate between the evil in the ideology and the individual who may have nothing to do with the other factors. That’s all.”

    Now that sounds like someone who has indeed missed the point, especially based on the aforementioned reality.”

    Gee, Awake, so sorry that I refuse to ooze with hatred, fear, and loathing against individuals just because they were born into Muslim communities. Sorry that I make a point of learning to know someone as a human being rather than a label. That’s just what my cultural upbringing, my religion, and my world view as given to me by my parents teach me is right. I think I shall unapologetically stick to those values.

    Say, Awake, why don’t you limit your comments to interpretations of what YOU think, instead of projecting your opinions onto what I state clearly are my personal observations and thus distorting both what I say and insulting me in the process.

    Say whatever you wish. Just don’t drag me into the equation.

  34. says

    Jim Foster, above in response to dumbledoresarmy’s proposal that our societies should prevent Muslims from working around foods and food processing, writes at length about anecdotal experience of two Muslims who supposedly represent the paradigm of secular corrosion of religiosity (as well as the paradigm of the “nice Muslim”). In doing so, Foster subtly telegraphs an equivalency between the corrosive secularism which the Western reader knows so deeply it has become a matter of an unconscious and casual given, almost seeming to be like it’s just part of reality — an equivalency between this, and the Muslim world, where what is being subtly telegraphed is that what pertains to our societies must also pertain to theirs because, hey, we’re “all human” and they are “just moms and pops like the rest of us” — thus ignoring vast chasms of cultural differences that separate us.

    In fact, secularism is a phenomenon that has dramatically and profoundly altered the modern West in ways both qualitatively and quantitatively on a scale that has had the effect of achieving a degree of dissolution of tribalism and theocracy unprecedented in all the world and throughout all world history. And not only is the West profoundly distinct in this regard in comparison to all other cultures — the one culture that is furthest away from us in this regard is Islam!

    Thus, it is only reasonable for us to assume — at best — that Jim Foster’s anecdotal Muslims are the exception, not the rule.

    Secondly, note how Foster pulled out the typical PC MC red herring:

    Should I burn in hatred towards these men and their families because they are Muslim, nominally or otherwise? I think not.

    But dumbledoresarmy was neither proposing “burning hatred”, nor even basing her proposal on “burning hatred”: her proposal was based on a rational determination to protect our societies from an obviously labile, metastasizing, unpredictable situation of innumerable, difficult-(if-not-often-impossible)-to-pinpoint Muslims so fanatical — indeed “burning with hatred” themselves against us — that they would gladly poison thousands of innocent men, women and children in a New York minute if they could. In such a situation we face, it is highly unlikely we will be able to protect ourselves without taking measures that will have the effect of “collateral damage” on many apparently innocent Muslims (with the “damage” referred to ranging anywhere from minor inconveniences, to major inconveniences, and perhaps worse).

    And a crucial point to add here: we have seen time and time again stories about dangerous Muslims, of varying degrees of murderous intent ranging from enablement of terrorism to actual participation, who were up to the point of discovery of their extremism regarded as “moderates” of one flavor or another. Jim Foster claims to have been reading Jihad Watch for six years, so he has no excuse for not having assimilated this fact which irretrievably complicates — if it does not undermine — the usefulness of his anecdotally “nice” and seemingly irreligious Muslims. And as Robert Spencer himself has noted many, many times here: there is no reliable way for us to tell the difference between the dangerous Muslim and the truly harmless Muslim. While on a person-to-person level in a single instance one may get to know a Muslim to such a degree as to become convinced they are harmless, the point is that to protect our societies we must operate on a macro level, not a micro level of the one or two nice Muslims some guy on the Internet says he has personally known. But there have been cases of foolish Infidels who have thought they knew a nice Muslim personally — and then one day, after years of a friendly relationship, that Muslim murdered them (recently, to pick one example of many out of a turban, the case of the Jewish professor and the Muslim grad student he had been helping and counselled, then one day that nice Muslim heard the call in his brain that he had to “kill a Jew”, and when invited to the professor’s apartment, stabbed him repeatedly until he was dead).

    Once again, then, I notice Foster’s comments conveying the Islam Apologetic line. Whether he intends this consciously, or whether it just reflects a degree of the PC MC disease in his mind, is difficult to answer for certain at this juncture.

  35. says

    Hesperado pedantically bleated out the following:

    “Once again, then, I notice Foster’s comments conveying the Islam Apologetic line. Whether he intends this consciously, or whether it just reflects a degree of the PC MC disease in his mind, is difficult to answer for certain at this juncture.”

    I believe I have made my distaste for Islam apparent in quite a few postings. I am speaking of my positive experiences with three individuals from Pakistan, one of whom was an atheist and anti-Muslim, another secular, and the third only nominally observant.

    As regards the “issue” of boycotting food from Muslim sources, when I lived in Israel back a few years people bought bread from an Arab baker. In Israel, Arabs tend to dominate baking and their product is usually a pretty good one. If you ever make it to Tel Aviv, there is a really fantastic little place that makes Turkish coffee and serves it up with fresh kanafe. It’s located right where Tel Aviv and Old Yafo come together. I don’t recall it ever being an issue, despite urban legends of food tampering.

    As regards what you call the “diseases” in my mind, I’d suggest you stick to a more intense analysis of what’s rattling about in your own.

    Whether Hesperado is calling me a liar, an atheist, a leftist, or claiming I am mentally ill, he surely seems to be obsessed with harassing me.

    I have a suggestion: Why don’t we stick to discussing and analysing issues relating to the Islamist threat, and refrain from analysing one another’s alleged shortcomings and such?

  36. says

    awake’s question to Foster, and awake’s example of his personal anecdote from work, raises an important aspect of this whole problem.

    It often seems that two different levels tend to get confused, particularly by PC MCs (which in my estimation applies to Foster’s approach to the problem of Islam):

    Those two levels I would term the Micro and the Macro.

    On the Micro level — the one-on-one, interpersonal level of knowing a Muslim frcm college, or from work, or as a regular patron in our place of business, or as the owner of a store or restaurant we visit frequently, if not a closer relationship of friendship perhaps growing out of these types of acquaintenceships — many of us can have the experience, and the emotion, of feeling pretty confident that this particular Muslim person we know is harmless, not to mention a nice guy, fun to talk with, seems moderate, loves Apple Pie and Apple ipods; etc.

    However, on the level of protecting society from a threat that we have been learning —

    1) emanates from a worldwide network of Muslims

    2) inspires to violence innumerable Muslims we have difficulty in tracking or pinpointing

    3) derives from approximately the same religious culture which also deeply inspires the Muslims who seem harmless

    4) derives from a religious culture that has for its central framework a military expansionism based upon a supremacist hatred for non-members — a military expansionism that has characterized Islam for centuries back to its beginnings, and currently animates all the innumerable jihadists pullulating all over the world

    5) has turned out, after the dust has cleared on several terrorist attacks and plots, often to involve Muslims who up to that moment were deemed to be “moderates”

    — then not only is the Micro level (of personal experiences and the anecdotes of other people’s personal experiences with nice Muslims) inadequate for our safety needs, it can all too easily become positively a hindrance to those safety needs, if it were to reinforce attitudes that have a concrete effect on the development of general policy we need to pursue to protect ourselves from a situation reflecting points 1-5 above. Thus awake’s pertinent question, and challenge, to Foster: show us why we should adjust our concrete policies (not to mention our attitude) in reaction to the threat of Muslims by softening our stance based on your personal experiences with nice Muslims. Where is the actual, concrete link that connects one’s Micro level of experience with a handful of Muslims, to the Macro level where such close knowledge is impossible? One suspects that Foster’s stance is roughly the PC MC stance that begins, and proceeds, and concludes inductively all the way, with the formula:

    Most Muslims must be good people, therefore they are.

    With of course the necessary adjunct that since most Muslims are to be so categorized, as “good people”, we must avoid at all cost (even at the cost of our safety needs) ever to remotely endanger them with collateral damage that might even conceivably ensue from any policies we think we need to take to ensure our safety from the dangerous Muslims.

    No amount of Micro experiences can ever be sufficient to prove that any given Muslim is trustworthy. This would not be that much of a problem, if points 1-5 — which reflect the Macro level of millions of Muslims in a worldwide diaspora in an amazing and complex flux of travel, business, immigration and emigration, and of course, camouflaged among all the former, deadly infiltration — were not all too grimly real, and getting worse as each year goes by.

  37. says

    I am afraid that ‘Jim Foster’ missed my point.

    I was not referring to ‘urban myths’ of poisonings.

    I had in mind a number of actual, concrete cases, cases involving arrests and bringings-to-trial – from Israel, from the UK, from the USA, from Canada – in which Muslims were found to have been deliberately damaging or contaminating food for Infidels, or plotting to do so.

    The case in Israel features two Arab Muslims, employed in a kosher restaurant in Israel, who were discovered by the Israeli authorities to have been conspiring to poison the food.

    In view of Jim Foster’s statements about the personal niceness of certain Muslims he has known, and the delicious taste of bread from ‘Arab’ (Muslim?) bakeries, this passage from the Israel National News report, describing one of the Muslim poison plotters, deserves to be read and re-read:

    “Utman Said Kianyah worked for three years as a chef at Caf? Rimon. Ronen Rimon, owner of the establishment, told Israel National News that *”He was a very, very nice man; friendly with everybody and very nice to all the Jewish customers.”* {my emphasis – dda}.

    ” Kianyah was sentenced Tuesday to seven and a half years in prison for planning to poison those same customers, causing a large number of deaths.”

    Then there was a Somali Muslim woman, in Canada, who was discovered to have carefully inserted small needles – not on one occasion, but on multiple occasions – into ready-to-eat pork products, including products that were regularly sold to schoolchildren for their lunches.

    The three cases – two from the UK and one from the USA – that miira listed in her posting above, were not ‘urban myths': in each case there was an arrest, charges laid, evidence presented, a trial, and a guilty verdict.

    We *know* that there is an Al Qaeda jihad manual which openly advises the contamination of food intended to be served to Infidels.

    There is also a famous ‘sermon’ by the Muslim hate-preacher, Abu Hamza, in which – urging upon Muslims everywhere their duty to wage jihad against non-Muslims – he exhorts them to use ‘mice poison’ if they do not yet have access to WMDs.

    As reported in Times Online, January 13, 2006, in an article entitled “Abu Hamza’s Video Call to Arms”:


”We ask Muslims to . . . bleed the enemies of Allah anywhere by any means. You can’t do it by nuclear weapon, you have to do it by kitchen knife, no other solution. *You can’t do it by chemical weapons, you have to do it by mice poison* {my emphasis – dda}”.

    Twenty years ago, *I* used to eat turkish bread and baklava, bought from a Turkish-owned shop; I would not do so, now.

    Not because of blind hatred, but simply because of an instinct of rational self-preservation: for I now know something I didn’t know back then. I know about Surah 48 verse 29 which says that those who follow the ‘prophet’ are ruthless [other translations use words like harsh, or cruel] toward the non-believers and compassionate only to one another; I know about the doctrine of ‘loyalty and enmity’ that is dinned into many Muslims; and I also know about the hadith that says, ‘we grin at some people, though our hearts hate them’.

    Given the fact that those teachings exist, and that there really are Muslims who take them to heart and act on them (as we see in abundance in Iraq, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Egypt – ask the non-Muslims there!) I simply don’t fancy playing Muslim Roulette.

    A particular Muslim baker may be a lovely person; he may even be a secret apostate; on the other hand, he may be quite deliberately ‘spiking’ his bread-for-infidels with something extra, of varying degrees of nastiness ; and if he is not doing it today, how do I know, for certain, he might not get that old-time religion, and start doing it tomorrow, or next week, or next year?

    I am well aware that for 1400 years Muslims have accused Jews of setting out to poison them [Muslims] and that there have also been, tragically, Christians who accused Jews of being poisoners.

    But just because those charges, *when made against Jews*, were and are manifestly false [and to boot, I would see the truly nonsensical and malevolent Muslim stories of Jews supposedly plotting to poison Muslims, as examples of PROJECTION], *does not necessarily mean* that we are not allowed to entertain a healthy suspicion about *Muslims*.

    Because Muslims *have* been caught, most definitely, red-handed, poisoning or plotting to poison; and there is Abu Hamza, on the record as openly advising the use of poison upon Infidels (and there’s a sheikh in Kuwait who rhapsodises about how what a great thing it would be, to scatter a pound of anthrax spores over the White House front lawn, because of how many thousands of Infidels would die as a result).

  38. says

    I worked at plant in Ks which is owned by muslims. During my short employment there I witnessed the deathes of two young men and heard through the grape vine of several individuals who were sick. Soon I too became sick and the muslim managers would come and ask ” what is the matter ? did you get poisoned ?”. I quit the job and reported to local police, the FBI, the CIA and state representatives that I had been intentially poisoned. Only the CIA agent I spoke with took my statements seriously – I was sick for a period of around 6 monthes –
    There is no doubt that Islam is a threat to the human race as a whole – Ya’ll can keep your intellectual arguments and useless words because ACTION is the only way to DEAL with this PROBLEM however unfortunatly reminiscent of the NAZI ideology this may be – it is TRUE ! Soon the threshold will be broken and all HELL will break loose. I feel sorry for the moderate muslims and the non-violent muslim individuals who will be caught in the ‘ Defensive Annihilation ‘ of our newly recognized enemies. This is not something I promote, but rather a situation I see coming to pass in the near future, a prediction – Underestimating us however is their fatal flaw !!

  39. says

    No sane non-Muslim person or business that produces or handles food of any kind, anywhere in the as-yet-free non-Muslim world, should employ a Muslim.

    Muslims should not have access to non-Muslim food, at any stage, from field to table. The opportunities for sabotage with everything from dioxin and thallium and botulin and salmonella (at the high-tech end) to needles and powdered glass and dried, powdered sh*t and vomit (low-tech), are just too great and the likely consequences too horrible.

    The converse of this, of course, also applies: if you are a non-Muslim, do. not. buy. food that has come from a Muslim country. Boycott those dates or pistachios from Iran, that rice from Pakistan, those figs and dried apricots from Turkey, that jam from Egypt (I mention these, because I have seen all of these on sale in my local Australian supermarket). Why take the risk – the real risk – that some malevolent Muslim somewhere along the supply line, knowing that these items would be eaten by Infidels, has…added a little extra something. And, of course: do. not. eat. at restaurants owned and staffed by Muslims.

    Thought: maybe Muslims make such a big thing of halal food, food separate from Infidel food, because that way they know which foods (anything not labelled as halal) they are free to poison or contaminate, without much chance of killing fellow Muslims.

  40. says

    Undaunted wrote:

    I heard about this on the way home, but there was, of course, no mention that these loathesome pieces of shit are Muslim.

    Yes. The first time I heard about this story, there was *no* mention of who the suspectss were (I, of course, had my suspicions).

    The second run of the story, the suspects were referred to as “Arabic language translators”. Somehow I knew it was unlikely they were, say, Copts or Jewish Israelis.

    James wrote:

    You could have blinked and missed this story on Fox News.

    True”just a quick sound bite with no details. Somehow I doubt that most of rest of the MSM is covering the story at all, though.

  41. says

    Why would our authorities not want native speakers, especially those whose personal experiences would make them ideal partners for combating Islamic terror?

    Political correctness – after all it would be ‘racism and bigotry’ to hire Christian and Jewish Arabic speakers and not Muslims.

    Stupid is as stupid does, and after all, the stupid don’t inherit the earth.

  42. says

    That would actually be the start of a GREAT 11TH COMMANDMENT:

    “Thou shalt not taketh friends nor eateth amongst the muslims for they boweth down to the moon-god al-ilah and are un-clean.”

  43. says

    In reply to Jim Foster’s question: “Why would our authorities not want native speakers, especially those whose personal experiences would make them ideal partners for combating Islamic terror?”

    Spirit of 1683 wrote:

    “Political correctness – after all it would be ‘racism and bigotry’ to hire Christian and Jewish Arabic speakers and not Muslims.”

    Yep. As I have noted long ago, Christian has become effectively an ethnic category — white — such that even black Nigerian Christians (let alone Middle Eastern Christians) are treated as “honorary whites” — i.e., thrown under the bus to placate Muslims, for Muslims have become, under the mainstream aegis of PC MC, the #1 Most Privileged Ethnic Minority of the world.

    Muslims have achieved this distinction for three reasons, which all interlock:

    1) the West’s mainstream and dominant sociopolitical paradigm, PC MC, favors what it considers “ethnic people” over white Westerners

    2) Muslims are perceived to be an “ethnic people” (or better yet, a wondrously diverse rainbow of different “ethnic peoples” — and there is good reason for this, since over 90% of Muslims around the world indeed look ethnic)

    3) And finally, Muslims are the only ethnic people to consistently threaten violence, plot violence, and often regularly successfully deliver violence on a scale that threatens the security of most nations on Earth. No other ethnic people comes close to Muslims in this regard.

    #1 and #2 would explain why the white West would endow Muslims with extra deference and privileges, as the white West tends to do with all “ethnic peoples”. But it takes #3 to push the equation further, to explain why it is that Muslims have elbowed their way to the #1 spot in the last decade.

  44. says

    Yes do boycott products from Islamic countries. Read the labels and see where they are made. Why should any non Muslims buy products from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey etc, when these Mohammedans want to persecute and kill non Muslims. These same countries want to destroy us. It is unfortunate that we rely heavily on oil, the only reason Saudi Arabia is able to have a great influence and buy out western media, institutions and people.

  45. says

    In response to someone who has stated that no one of Muslim descent should be allowed to work with food, nor should any of us ever go to a Muslim establishment serving food, I wish to add the following observations:

    While working my way through university, I worked at a pizza parlor owned by two Pakistanis. One was moderately observant of Sunni Islam, while the other was an atheist who openly mocked religion,hated Arabs with a passion, refered to Islam as regressive, and told fantastic nasty jokes about imams. The anti-religious one loved Israel and Israelis, while the observant one got along just fine with me knowing that I was a Jew, asked questions about Judaism, nodded in sympathetic agreement at most of my answers and told me he appreciated learning about now what he had never been exposed to, and was indifferent on the question of Zionism. Another partner came in to help out at one point and insisted that I take off for a Jewish holiday.He discussed Schindler’s List with me, related it to his having been a twelve year old Urdu speaking boy in Bangladesh, hiding in a ditch with his father while his neighbors butchered the Urdu speakers and he escaped at night to locate food because his accent was not detectable among the Bengali speakers. His story reminded me of stories I had heard from Shoah survivors and those whose families had witnessed the pogroms of Eastern Europe. His experiences antagonized him towards politics and other factors that cause division between humans.

    Another worker, also Pakistani, was trying to support his wife and two children and held three jobs doing it. He told me of his negative experiences in Saudi Arabia, spoke of Arab racism, and told me about his families experience fleeing India and how they had escaped a massacre. He told me of how Hindus back in Kashmir had came to their home to eat beef.

    Should I burn in hatred towards these men and their families because they are Muslim, nominally or otherwise? I think not.

    At no time did I notice any unethical behavior on the part of any of these men. At no time did any of these men express disdain, dislike, or hatred against others. Unlike at another restaurant, where a waitor (who claimed to be Christian) bragged that he had spat upon a steak when a customer ticked him off, I never saw anyone do anything unsavory with any of the food.

    Will some accuse me of being “an apologist for the worst that Islam has to offer” based on my relating these positive experiences with four Pakistanis? Two already have. So be it.

    I have a strong revulsion for the totalitarian nature of Islam, understand the misfortunes it has brought many, and am not at all willing to defend Islam itself; BUT, we need to not allow our dislike for a totalitarian ideology to cause us to turn in blind hatred against these people as individuals.

    Differentiate between the evil in the ideology and the individual who may have nothing to do with the other factors. That’s all.

  46. says

    Aynrand, exactly! Everything these “soldiers” did is now in doubt. We have already seen where an interpreter in Afghanistan turned on our men and murdered them in cold blood.

    I believe it is Bruce Bawer who covered this issue of translations and who wrote that politicos did not want to “offend” Arab Muslims by “forcing” them to work with Jews.

  47. says

    Demsci, your post is exactly on target regarding how I feel. There is no problem in my mind with attacking and ridiculing Islam as a dangerous and totalitarian ideology that is totally hostile to all we Westerners hold near and dear.

  48. says

    To reiterate, Jim Foster wrote:

    “Differentiate between the evil in the ideology and the individual who may have nothing to do with the other factors. That’s all.”

    That’s the problem Jim. You have not put forth a cogent argument on how to successfully do that, which was the entire substance of my argument to why your comments were lacking in substantive value.

    You then when on to write, when your position was challenged:

    “Gee, Awake, so sorry that I refuse to ooze with hatred, fear, and loathing against individuals just because they were born into Muslim communities.”

    I “oozed” neither “hatred”, “fear” nor “loathing” in my comment. Those are fallatious, emotional pleas to morality and a straw-man argument against my position. No one with a modicum of intelligence actually believes that a billion plus Muslims worldwide all share a monolithic viewpoint.

    The fact still remains, and you have not yet presented a suitable counter-argument otherwise, that because Muslims subscribe to Islam, and there is no way to tell what is in the hearts and minds of people, in this case Muslims, that there is no reason to expect that any Muslim should not be perceived as a potential threat.

    Just for the record, I work with two Muslims in an office of over 100 people. They are reasonably decent fellows and I for sure do not coexist in abject fear of them. That said, it is also an inefficient summary to support your argument. Maybe I am right and they are never going to actualize there strict adherence to this “totalitarian ideology” of Islam as you put it, but then again, I may be wrong, and since they have not abandoned the ideology itself, then they should rightly be scrutinized and subject to my suspicion.

    If that makes you feel bad, then so be it. That is your problem and not mine.

    You wrote:
    “That’s just what my cultural upbringing, my religion, and my world view as given to me by my parents teach me is right.”

    I will be so bold to state that your cultural upbringing, your religion and your parents’ influence have nothing to do with this. Once again, this is an appeal to moral superiority, a logical fallacy, which implies that you are a moral person and I am not.


    You then wrote:
    “Say, Awake, why don’t you limit your comments to interpretations of what YOU think, instead of projecting your opinions onto what I state clearly are my personal observations and thus distorting both what I say and insulting me in the process.”

    My comments were explicit on what I think, and in the process, critical of what you think, and since you don’t own the intellectual property here at JW, you are subject to criticism just like everybody else. Also, I never insulted you, never called you a name or any derogatory ad hominem label as you purported. I simply attacked your assertion about the need to discern between Islam and Muslims.

    So, we seem to have come full circle, Jim. Can you present a valid argument as to why this differentiation is necessary, and if so in your estimation, how it is logically possible, and that refutes my argument that it cannot, hence rendering your argument as baseless?

    Do you, and I will retract every word that I wrote on this thread.

    Good luck with that.

  49. says

    “Dumbledorsarmy,” hi. Thanks for the post elucidating your earlier remarks and for making it so detailed and informative.

    Sorry if I misunderstood your post. It hasn’t been the first time I misunderstood something, and it probably won’t be the last. :)

    I appreciate that you brought up the accurate news reports and did it in a polite way.

    You mentioned the Kuwaiti professor and his threats to poison Americans. I had totally forgotten about that, so thanks for reminding me.