In March 2007 I wrote about the question of whether or not Barack Obama was, according to Islamic law, an apostate from Islam who thus merited the death sentence Islamic law mandates for apostates.
This article was frequently pointed to as the source of the "Obama is a Muslim" rumors during the 2008 campaign, and therefore also frequently dismissed out of hand. But now three years later, an Arab newspaper, the Gaza-based Watan Voice, is discussing a question that will get you ridicule and scorn in the American mainstream media simply for asking: was Barack Obama ever a Muslim? The author considers the evidence and then draws his conclusion from Islamic jurisprudence.
Incidentally, in the course of his article he includes this, which bears out the truth of what I wrote in March 2007: "Islamic law does not oblige those who have not reached puberty to practice Islam.." That is, it doesn't command their deaths if they don't practice Islam. I had written this:
So is Obama under a death sentence? Probably not - particularly if he left Islam while still a child. This is a crucial point, for according to Islamic law an apostate male is not to be put to death if he has not reached puberty (cf. 'Umdat al-Salik o8.2; Hidayah vol. II p. 246). Some, however, hold that he should be imprisoned until he is of age and then "invited" to accept Islam, but officially the death penalty for youthful apostates is ruled out.
For a full consideration of Obama's curious and shifting attitude toward the Muslim elements of his life story, pre-order my forthcoming book with Pamela Geller, The Post-American Presidency, coming in July from Threshold Editions/Simon & Schuster.
"Is President Obama a Muslim or an Apostate?," by Mu'ammar Ahmad 'Abd-al-Latif Rajeh for the Watan Voice (in Arabic), January 30 (translated by al-Mutarajjam at Translating Jihad):
[...] Within this introduction, certain aspects of President Obama's introduction to his autobiography beg the following question: What is the position of Islamic law concerning this biography?Islamic law stipulates that if a child is born with either one or both of his parents being Muslim, then the child's religion will also be Muslim. This applies if the father is Muslim and the mother is non-Muslim, such as in President Obama's case. Al-Hassan, Shurayh, Ibrahim, and Qatada said: "If one of (the parents) has submitted (to Islam), then the child is with the Muslim," for Islam dominates, but is not (itself) dominated (comment: This is a famous phrase from either the Qur'an or the hadith, but I'm not sure exactly how it's worded in English; it basically means Islam is superior to everything, and submits to nothing). And also according to the word of the prophet of God (PBUH): "No child is born except on nature (i.e. Islam), and then his parents make him Jewish, Christian, or Magian (Zoroastrian), as an animal produces a perfect young animal: do you see any part of its body amputated?" (Sahih al-Bukhari, V 2, Bk 23, No 441). Although Islamic law does not oblige those who have not reached puberty to practice Islam, the father of such a child is required to pay zakat and pray the funeral prayer if the child dies before reaching puberty. This shows that the child is Muslim from birth. Through these Islamic judgments, in comparison with the autobiography of President Barack Hussein Obama, we find that this president is either a Muslim or an apostate from Islam according to the strongest viewpoints of Islamic jurisprudence.
Obama a muslim? I'm shocked.....shocked!
Gaza newspaper: "This president is either a Muslim or an apostate from Islam according to the strongest viewpoints of Islamic jurisprudence"
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And what were the conclusions of the Watan Voice? I notice that "converted to Christianity while a child" was *not* one of the options presented in their headline.
I have been concerned about this for some time, especially since I realized there would come a time when—no matter how appeasing Obama's policies were to the Muslim world—that even he would not be "flying the black flag of Islam" over the White House any time soon.
Much as I dislike Barack Obama-and am alarmed by his policies—I have no desire to see any American president under a death Fatwa for apostasy.
I believe Obama has made clear in one-on-one meetings with various Muslim potentates, that he is a Muslim, practicing taqiyya.
LOL
"I believe Obama has made clear in one-on-one meetings with various Muslim potentates, that he is a Muslim, practicing taqiyya."
Agreed.
And did Obama admit to being a muslim? Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQqIpdBOg6I
Robert wrote:
"So is Obama under a death sentence? Probably not - particularly if he left Islam while still a child. This is a crucial point, for according to Islamic law an apostate male is not to be put to death if he has not reached puberty (cf. 'Umdat al-Salik o8.2; Hidayah vol. II p. 246). Some, however, hold that he should be imprisoned until he is of age and then "invited" to accept Islam, but officially the death penalty for youthful apostates is ruled out."
It isn't clear from this quote what happens to such a boy after he goes through puberty.
Here is what the Muslim-Canada.org site states, in its introduction on apostasy:
"If a boy under age apostatize, he is not to be put to death, but to be imprisoned until he come to full age, when, if he continues in the state of unbelief, he must be put to death."
Please read this article and draw your own conclusions, but to my knowledge any time a person recites the Shahada that person is considered a Muslim. Obama knew exactly what the Islamic world would conclude with this story in the public record.
http://select.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/opinion/06kristof.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin
All Obama does is lie about everything. He is a better liar than Clinton or Hillary. I'm not sure he knows who he is but if he does, then he is Muslim.
"particularly if he left Islam while still a child"- I don't buy that. The son of a Muslim is always a Muslim.
There is no evidence whatsoever that "he left Islam as a child" or later.
And why would he?
What's also deeply disturbing is that his hatepreacher Jeremia Wright converted to Islam in his student years, visited Libya and some other places in Africa before starting his own "Christian" hate-church preaching hatred of white people and "black liberation theology"....
It never ceases to amaze me that Obama, with his murky past, could ever be elected president. Even more ominous is his adamant stand to keep that past under wraps, with his paid-counsel challenging any attempt to reveal
it. From the trouble he's taking to conceal it, any reasonable person has to conclude that there is at least compromising, and possibly damning information lurking within that shroud of secrecy.
And then there's that troubling middle name...
Sheik Yer'Mami wrote:
What's also deeply disturbing is that his hatepreacher Jeremia Wright converted to Islam in his student years,
.................
I hadn't heard that before, Sheik, but it hardly surprises me.
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/192165.php
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A Plague on Both Houses wrote:
Please read this article and draw your own conclusions, but to my knowledge any time a person recites the Shahada that person is considered a Muslim.
.................
I think the idea is that Obama may never have recited the Shahada, but was born into Islam because of his Muslim father—and studied the Qu'ran in Indonesia because of his Muslim step-father.
I doubt his flaky, nominally 'culturally-Christian' mother thought very much about Islam or its potential consequences for either herself or her child. From what I gather, it seems she was drawn to Muslims as members of "third world" non-Western cultures.
Thanks for posting that repellent NYT article, APOBH. The ugliest passage was where the author winks at the "sophistication" of polygamy, because it will upset the rubes back in Alabama.
Barry Soetero (Obama's earlier Javanese-style moniker)
was enrolled in a religious school in Jakarta (prior to
being transferred to a public school there). The authentic
enrollment form says:
AGAMA (Bahasa Indonesia for religion): Islam
This form has been reproduced on Yahoo and TV several
times and has not been disputed by Obama (just spun
as to its meaning and relevance).
We cannot entriely conclude that this means Barry Boy
was a Muslim as his Javanese Muslim father may have
put down "Islam" for convenience since this school
was predominantly Muslim in attendance; yet, it might
mean that Obama's 'godfather' did intend or in fact
initially raise him as a Muslim while they lived in
Indonesia. At that time Islam in Indonesia was somewhat
more fluid ('tolerant') than today in the sense that
many Javanese Muslims intermarried with Javanese
Christians or did not follow their five daily prayers
and drank and behaved rather laxly...
Indonesia in the 1970s did not require that Muslims be federally registered by the central authority as "Muslim" so there is no corroborating legal document in any
federal ministry in Jakarta. My sense is that it less
important that Obama and his Godfather 'tried Islam
out' as it were and followed a syncretic form of
crude Islam in Indonesia (which many Javanese do
today) than Obama's clear ideological sympathies
and kowtowing to global Islam today which is a far
greater threat than his once having tried out Islam.
I doubt his flaky, nominally 'culturally-Christian' mother thought very much about Islam or its potential consequences for either herself or her child. From what I gather, it seems she was drawn to Muslims as members of "third world" non-Western cultures.
SORT OF.....Obama's mother was an anthropologist and
devotee of the late famed anthropologist and scholar of Indonesia Clifford Geertz of Princeton University who was the 'Father of Javanese Ethnology'. Almost all budding anthropologists were drawn to the Third World at that time and few followed anymore the more archaic anthropological race-based theories that pre-dated Geertz. Everyone in the social sciences was a Leftist or globalist back then (and still are today, sad to say) including Obama's mother who wanted to fashion herself (no crime in fact) a modern-day Margaret Mead of Java.
"And then there's that troubling middle name..."
Right, Hussein is a Muslim. That's been obvious since the get-go.
There is no person, with the name "Hussein," who is not a Muslim.
Gravenimage,
thanks, but even if Obama had never recited the Shahada up to the point of the Kristof interview, he did as a consenting adult and on the public record. If he wasn't a muslim before, he would be considered one after.
"Mike" on Daniel Pipes shares the opening lines:
The opening lines of the Adhan (Azaan) is the Shahada:
from --
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/137991
Exactly. "My Muslim faith," in his interview with George Stephanopoulos in '08. A "Freudian slip."
Darcy,
I'm no interrogator or expert on body language or any of that sort of thing, but I just watched a You Tube Excerpt of the Stephanopolis interview. Obama looked directly at Steph. and raised eyebrows in an open, honest manner as he said 'my muslim faith'. When Steph. 'corrected' Obama's statement, Obama looked down and to the right as he said 'my Christian faith' When I see someone look down and away as they say something, I put some doubt on the statement. When he originally said 'my muslim faith' he did it straight up, no parsing or hedging of words and directly at Mr. Stephanopolis.
Just my two cent analysis, for what it's worth.
"Just my two cent analysis, for what it's worth."
It's worth a lot. Hussein is a Muslim. No doubt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28
Obama on Islam - ten minute compilation.
Darcy,
Wouldn't ya' think he'd have stayed with "Barry Soetero?" But I guess that
wouldn't sound as good with "PBUH" after it!
G
Obama attended madrassa in Indonesia and his neighbors said he was a good student.
Uh...oops. I don't now what the hell to think now.
From Obamas book..."In Indonesia, I’d spent 2 years at a Muslim school, 2 years at a Catholic school.
From the Chicago Times debunking the madrassa thing...
JAKARTA, Indonesia - When Barack Obama was a boy here, he studied for three years at a religious school and prayed four times a day.
It was a Roman Catholic school. There, Obama was registered as student No. 203.
Interviews show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia, despite being listed as a Muslim on the registration form for the Catholic school, Strada Asisia, where he attended 1st through 3rd grades.
or...
CNN's "Situation Room" last night visited Basuki School in Jakarta, where Obama studied for two of his years in Indonesia (1969-1971). It turned out to be a mixed public school -- girls and boys, Muslim and Christian -- where religion was taught as one subject among many. It certainly was not a madrassa. (Nor was it a Catholic school.) CNN presented the report as a debunking of FOX News and others, and it may well take the sting out of the story, but it doesn't answer all the questions.
Obama spent four years in Indonesia between 1967 and 1971, when he was aged 6 to 10. In his book, "Dreams from my Father," he says: "In Indonesia, I'd spent two years at a Muslim school and two years at a Catholic school," which suggests the Muslim school was the first he attended and Basuki may be the one he describes as "Catholic." CNN did not clarify this, so the search is continuing for the other school -- the "Muslim school" where he supposedly spent the first two years.
Damn...round and round ya go. Who the hell is he? What schools did he attend? What did they say? whoa...more like this, all with different dates, schools, kinds of schools...
spin it all you want, we know him for what he is.
Just another muslim apologist.
As for Wright...the waste of skin, bones, fluids and organs... In 1984, Wright accompanied Farrakhan on his much-criticized trip to meet Libyan ... Moammar Gadhafi, at a time when Gadhafi was considered an enemy of the United States.
Obama sucked up beaucoup hate from the limitless fountain that is Wright.
Hatred for white people spewed geyser style from his pulpit soaking all that sat in his "Church".
Hatred for the United States and what it represents.
The results of 22 years of bathing in that hatred is plain to see in our Presidents attitude towards his own county and countrymen.
islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.
I believe that the interrogators for the various law enforcement agencies are aware of just that action when they are looking for lies.
Unwillingness to make or never breaking eye contact is often a sign of deceit.
Isn't EVERYBODY a muslim or apostate therefrom, according to the ever expanding death cult?
I do think BO is a Muslim, that's one reason he avoids Christian Church. He goes occasionally for appearances only.
I think the YouTube video clip is being used to mislead.... Obama was simply mis-speaking. On the other hand, I don't think he's a Christian either.... he's an opportunist and uses religion for political advantage. He attended Rev. Wright's church for the purpose securing the black vote. You would think that after attending a church such as that for 20 years, he would be aware of what was being taught... but he says he didn't hear the hate speech in Wright's messages.
Politicians are liars. Obama claims to be a Christian when it serves his purpose. I'm sure he told Muslims what he thought they wanted to hear. On the other hand both George W. Bush and Tony Blair called Islam 'a religion of peace'. Can we really believe they truly thought that? Is it possible anyone can think that?
But the question at hand concerns what these Islamic holy men think. Why should we care? The whole religion is a twisting of truth ... nothing they think or believe comes from God. Islam is a total distortion of all that is good, true and Godly.
"I think the YouTube video clip is being used to mislead.... Obama was simply mis-speaking."
What does "mis-speaking" mean? Please elaborate.
Reading or saying out loud the Opening of the Koran which have the Shahada doesnot make than person than muslim, like haveing than christian who wash my hair at the place where I have it cut make me than christian by baspist. There are other elements of the Shadada which where not met. First he was makeing than speech as than christian leader to the Islamist World than he very respectly read the opening of the Koran in his speech which was political in nature so there was no valid Shahada. It like it than christian missory was to have unbeliver attend than beach party an he said the baspine verb than said to then all are christian now first the church willnot find it valid as faud was done.
Sorry, defenderofislam, I don't quite understand some of your points. Obama is not a christian leader and has stated that the United States is no longer a christian nation. In fact, he has stated that the United States would be one of the largest muslim nations, if sheer numbers of self-identifying muslims are counted inside US Borders. So Obama is denying the christian aspect of my nation and is trying to argue the US is actually one of the largest muslim nations.
I don't understand the 'baspine verb' part of your arguement. Are you suggesting that Obama was simply speaking the words and not meaning them? Then why did he say hearing them from Assnan in morning is 'one of the prettiest sounds'? He said the words, in ARABIC, and also said he likes them ( i.e. it agrees with his sensibilities )
You may be right, Obama may just be saying words. My point in all of it is that Obama knows the power of words and is saying these things in a way that will tell the Islamic world that he supports them. Whether or not Obama does this as a trick or not is beside my point. Obama carefully sends clues to the Islamic world that he agrees with it and wants them to see him as a fellow traveler. After all, he bows to the King of Saudi Arabia. That is unprecedented and tells the Islamic world that Obama is ranked lower than 'the keeper of the two holy places.'
Obama wants the Islamic world to think he is a believer, whether it's true or not.
And the "Defender of islam" raises his slimy little head.
What...you didn't get your ass kicked thoroughly enough the last time you attempted to defend the religion of Blood and Death?
What happened to you? You vanished when confronted with proof that Aisha was 9 when mo (Piss Be Upon Him) had sex with her. You were so sure that we were all wrong. You presented your pathetic little argument and then...POOF! Like some jinnn from the koran you were gone!
And now you return to lie again.
How about you return to the other thread and defend your pedophile false prophet? Or you can try to do so here. I don't care.
I don't usually call people out on spelling, punctuation or grammar, mine is far from perfect...but...are you on drugs? I can just barely make sense of your post. You should seek some help getting your message, if you actually have one, across.
"It like it than christian missory was to have unbeliver attend than beach party an he said the baspine verb than said to then all are christian now first the church willnot find it valid as faud was done."
Wow. What's a "baspine verb"? Is "baspine" supposed to be "baptizing"?
islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.