The lead paragraph in this Telegraph article says that Sweden's reputation as a tolerant, liberal nation is suffering -- as if Swedes have suddenly become anti-Semitic. But when you read down into the article a bit, you see that it is actually Muslim immigrants who are responsible for the anti-Semitic attacks. So the problem is that Swedes have been too tolerant and liberal, in tolerating the planting and proliferation of a hateful, supremacist, and anti-Semitic ideology on Swedish soil.
"Jews leave Swedish city after sharp rise in anti-Semitic hate crimes," by Nick Meo in the Telegraph, February 21 (thanks to all who sent this in):
Sweden's reputation as a tolerant, liberal nation is being threatened by a steep rise in anti-Semitic hate crimes in the city of Malmo.When she first arrived in Sweden after her rescue from a Nazi concentration camp, Judith Popinski was treated with great kindness.
She raised a family in the city of Malmo, and for the next six decades lived happily in her adopted homeland - until last year.
In 2009, a chapel serving the city's 700-strong Jewish community was set ablaze. Jewish cemeteries were repeatedly desecrated, worshippers were abused on their way home from prayer, and "Hitler" was mockingly chanted in the streets by masked men.
"I never thought I would see this hatred again in my lifetime, not in Sweden anyway," Mrs Popinski told The Sunday Telegraph.
"This new hatred comes from Muslim immigrants. The Jewish people are afraid now."
This article matter-of-factly notes that real neo-Nazis are allied with jihadis, contrary to the Leftist/Charles Johnson myth that neo-Nazis are anti-jihad:
Malmo's Jews, however, do not just point the finger at bigoted Muslims and their fellow racists in the country's Neo-Nazi fringe. They also accuse Ilmar Reepalu, the Left-wing mayor who has been in power for 15 years, of failing to protect them.
Of course. Why should he protect them from a threat he refuses to acknowledge exists?
Mr Reepalu, who is blamed for lax policing, is at the centre of a growing controversy for saying that what the Jews perceive as naked anti-Semitism is in fact just a sad, but understandable consequence of Israeli policy in the Middle East.While his views are far from unusual on the European liberal-left, which is often accused of a pro-Palestinian bias, his Jewish critics say they encourage young Muslim hotheads to abuse and harass them.
The future looks so bleak that by one estimate, around 30 Jewish families have already left for Stockholm, England or Israel, and more are preparing to go.
With its young people planning new lives elsewhere, the remaining Jewish households, many of whom are made up of Holocaust survivors and their descendants, fear they will soon be gone altogether. Mrs Popinski, an 86-year-old widow, said she has even encountered hostility when invited to talk about the Holocaust in schools.
"Muslim schoolchildren often ignore me now when I talk about my experiences in the camps," she said. "It is because of what their parents tell them about Jews. The hatreds of the Middle East have come to Malmo. Schools in Muslim areas of the city simply won't invite Holocaust survivors to speak any more."
Hate crimes, mainly directed against Jews, doubled last year with Malmo's police recording 79 incidents and admitting that far more probably went unreported. As of yet, no direct attacks on people have been recorded but many Jews believe it is only a matter of time in the current climate.
The city's synagogue has guards and rocket-proof glass in the windows, while the Jewish kindergarten can only be reached through thick steel security doors.[...]
Muslims are now estimated to make up about a fifth of Malmo's population of nearly 300,000.
"This new hatred from a group 40,000-strong is focused on a small group of Jews," Mrs Popinski said, speaking in a sitting room filled with paintings and Persian carpets.
"Some Swedish politicians are letting them do it, including the mayor. Of course the Muslims have more votes than the Jews."
The worst incident was last year during Israel's brief war in Gaza, when a small demonstration in favour of Israel was attacked by a screaming mob of Arabs and Swedish leftists, who threw bottles and firecrackers as the police looked on.
"I haven't seen hatred like that for decades," Mrs Popinski said. "It reminded me of what I saw in my youth. Jews feel vulnerable here now." [...]
The mayor insisted to The Sunday Telegraph that he was opposed to anti-Semitism, but added: "I believe these are anti-Israel attacks, connected to the war in Gaza.
"We want Malmo to be cosmopolitan and safe for everybody and we have taken action. I have started a dialogue forum. There haven't been any attacks on Jewish people, and if Jews from the city want to move to Israel that is not a matter for Malmo." [...]
Mr Eilenberg said he and his wife considered moving to Stockholm where Jews feel safer than in Malmo. "But we decided not to because in five years time I think it will be just as bad there," he said.
"This is happening all over Europe. I have cousins who are leaving their homes in Amsterdam and France for the same reason as me."...
Cue the obligatory mainstream media moral equivalence -- but as you read this, remember that Muslims are not leaving Sweden because of hate crimes, Jews are:
Malmo's Jews are not the only ones to suffer hate crimes.At the city's Islamic Centre, the director Bejzat Becirov pointed out a bullet hole in the window behind the main reception desk.
Mr Becirov, who arrived in 1962 from the former Yugoslavia, said that windows were regularly smashed, pig's heads had been left outside the mosque, and outbuildings burnt down - probably the acts of Neo-Nazis who have also baited Jews in the past.
He said that the harassment of Jews by some young Muslims was "embarrassing" to his community. Many of them are unemployed and confined to life on bleak estates where the Scandinavian dream of prosperity and equality seemed far away.
For many of Malmo's white Swedish population, meanwhile, the racial problems are bewildering after years of liberal immigration policies....
If Swedish elites had allowed for realistic education about Islam instead of spreading soothing Religion of Peace™ lies while Muslim immigrants poured into Sweden, no one would be surprised.
And what do Malmo-dwelling native Swedes do when the Jews have left, and the Muslims come for them?
Oh the joys of 50 years of multiculturalism and political correctness - no.
"Mr Reepalu, who is blamed for lax policing, is at the centre of a growing controversy for saying that what the Jews PERCEIVE as naked anti-Semitism is in FACT just a sad, but UNDERSTANDABLE CONSEQUENCE of Israeli policy in the Middle East."
But of course, we all know that the ONLY reason Muslims attack and kill anywhere around the world is because of the evil Israelis and their genocidal actions against the innocent Muslims in "Palestine"! It has nothing at all to do with the example of Muhammad who wiped out Jewish tribes and managed to make Arabia Juden-free, something that Hitler was never able to accomplish in Germany. And it couldn't have anything to do with the texts of the Koran and the Hadith which have more anti-Jewish text than Mein Kampf.
I call this STEALTH HOLOCAUST.. Unorganized systemtic cleansing of a certain minority group through intimidation, violence, and unequal treatment. The muslims specialize in this. You can see this everywhere muslims are a significant minority or a majority. It's happening or has happened to christians in iraq, egypt, and sudan, buddhists in thailand, hindus, buddhists, christians in Bangladesh, hindus in parts of Kashmir, and so on. The world may not know but we here at jihad watch know what it is.
What is so fascinating is the way that they are ALWAYS able to state some sort of "political" reason for their actions and what is so incredible is that most infidels buy it.
1930's alert!
When the Malmo 'Saturday people' are gone, they will start on the 'Sunday people', when they are gone, it will be kufr in general...The Saturday people are already gone from Egypt, and Iraq, so now it is the Sunday peoples turn...
We know that Muslims foment the antisemitism we see in the world today,we know that the false book "The Protocols of the Elders Of Zion" written in the Soviet Union more than a 100 year ago contributed to hate and antisemitism of the Jewish People,we know that Muslims where enablers and fully complicit in supporting Hitler and his gang of SS Nazi Genocidal murderers that are responsible for the holocaust.
Today this ugly hateful element sadly and pitifully disguised as human beings still walk among us as in this video from Los Angeles last year.
Listen to the end of this 2 minute video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnDQS80hrU4&feature=related
Invite the beast into your country and this is what you can expect.
It's ironic that had the Quran been written in 1940 and not in the seventh century, it would instead be condemned as hate literature and banned.
Bill Maher said it best when he pointed out the fact that were the American government to announce that all black people would henceforth be required to wear bee-keeper uniforms, the U.S. government would rightly be called racist and the entire world would send forth a loud cry of protest; but when half of humanity (women)is required to dress in the equivelant of a beekeeper uniform and subjected to biased laws, and the discrimination is wrapped up in the mantle of a religious requirement that a deity is said to have delivered (Islam), the madness suddenly becomes acceptable and people cater to the demand.
Madness.
"It's ironic that had the Quran been written in 1940 and not in the seventh century, it would instead be condemned as hate literature and banned."
Spot on, Jim! :)
More than a thousand years of anti-Jewish hatred in Europe is helping to facilitate this. However, now the Europeans, complicit, are letting Islam do the dirty work, while the anti-Jewish leftists (you know, the "capitalistic-banker-Jews controll the world economy" people,) excuse the loathsome Jihadist actions as "understandable considering the political situation with Israel". "Zionist" has replaced "Jew" in a dozen or so European languages in Nazi-like diatribes. Of course the Europeans don't seem to have figured out that they will be next.The enemy of your perceived enemy is not neccesarily your friend.Shame on Europe with all of its smug air of moral superiority to allow this to happen all over again. I love western civilization too much however to be able to take pleasure in saying "I told you so" when they realize it's too late to stop Islamic tyranny in the not too distant European future.
"For many of Malmo's white Swedish population, meanwhile, the racial problems are bewildering after years of liberal immigration policies...."
Oh, come on! The Swedes can't be that thick! The "problems" are the direct result of the "years of liberal immigration policies." If the Swedes can't (or won't) see that, and they continue the present immigration policy, and do nothing about the existing problem; then they truly deserve what is coming.
"More than a thousand years of anti-Jewish hatred in Europe is helping to facilitate this."
Just to be clear, if you are suggesting that the Muslims got their anti-Semitism from Europeans or from Christians, that is incorrect. Islam was anti-Jewish from the very start, from when Muhammad walked the earth. The anti-Jewish nature of Islam is built into Islam.
Not at all. Please don't misunderstand me. I am saying that the European history of anti-semitism explains, in part,(along with the general insanity of multiculteralism) why they continue to excuse Muslim ant-Jewish actions. The anti- Jewish sentiments of Muslims is independent of European thought, and is entrenched in their religion and history. They have come to Europe, and have added their anti-semitism to what was already just under the surface. If you read comments in many European newspapers, they are often full of ant-Jewish rhetoric, mostly from European leftists.
My point is only that this is one part of the puzzle as to why Europeans can accept and excuse Muslim anti-Jewish actions.It is not meant in any way to excuse or to blame European thought for anti-Jewish Muslims- only to explain why some Europeans accept it. The fact is, many Europeans don't like Jews very much.
Once you label a war as 'illegal', soldiers as 'baby killers', politician of a country as 'war criminals', all that is left to legitimize the prosecution of its citizens is to make one little step in the same direction. Then, you have the 'moral ground' to 'punish' those 'evil criminal'.
So the Libs, who happily jumped on the wagon when it took off, are afraid to jump off it when it spins out of control.
You can run from Swedes and you can run from Europe. But where will you run once Obama completely surrenders the U.S to her enemies? When Iran will have its finger on its 'peaceful' weapon?
Today, the U.S is the only thing that stand between the jihadist and what is left of the free world, and every jihadist knows that. (Although, Japan, while not yet involved, would be the second).
Behind all the anti-war movements, stand the jihadists, waiting for his enemy to lay down his weapon.
This is, the last stand.
Malmostan. Lowly Malmostan. It is astonishing how easily do the Muslims bend to their will and enslave Western democracies.
Houari Boumedienne's triumphant loud prediction in the UN in 1974 that the Muslims will conquer Western countries through immigration and breeding is now becaming a reality.
And the cowardly West had slandered, scourged and crucified Serbia for trying to defend itself from the Muslims.
Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.
There are actually many people including intellectuals writing whole books about it who do try to excuse Islamic anti-Semitism as evolving out of European anti-Semitism. Perhaps it is true that some Muslim groups or parties did take some cues from the Nazi party but as you say the underlying beliefs were already there. It would help if more people knew that the Mufti of Jerusalem was one of the main people goading Hitler on into killing more Jews more quickly. It is a disgrace the way so many otherwise intelligent people continue to repeat the same old lies about how well Jews were treated under Islam when the evil Christians in Europe were so terrible to Jews. Ironically, it is the actions of the Nazis and the attempt by the current generation to never repeat that which is prohibiting them from taking any action against Islam and Muslims. They are paralyzed by guilt built up by distorted history (colonialism, Christianity, Islam) and by the tragedies of WWII.
Unfortunately it is not just the anti-semitism of Muslims which is being denied, excused, blamed on the west and rationalized by leftist intellectuals (some of whom, unbelievably are Jewish)but all other aspects of Muslim intolerance and barbarity as well. For many on the left, Israel has become the new fascist state. They have twisted the holocaust mantra "it must never happen again" to point the finger directly at Israel, and by proxy, the Jews. Now in their minds the Muslims are the victims who can do no wrong, and the "Zionists" (read Jews)are the tyrants.
This west = bad, everyone else = better attitude will lead us straight to hell.
Hmmm... Let's see.
Europeans sitting idly by while Jews are attacked in their streets.
Socialists comfortable with mob violence.
Now walk me through this again.
What part of this is supposed to be surprising?
"Mr Reepalu, who is blamed for lax policing, is at the centre of a growing controversy for saying that what the Jews perceive as naked anti-Semitism is in fact just a sad, but understandable consequence of Israeli policy in the Middle East."
A number of things going on here:
1) Reepalu's comment expresses a typical sentiment that has become an important cog in the mechanism of the PC MC paradigm about Islam -- namely, the supposedly purely politically motivated anti-Israel stance by which anti-Semitism among Muslims (as well as, of course, among Leftists + a small handful of ultra-right-wing cranks like Buchanan) is deflected and denied.
2) Reepalu's comment also expresses a poor grasp of how causation often works:
a) first, some events or situations have multiple causes -- particularly complex sociopolitical events or situations;
b) secondly, the multiple causes of events or situations are not all exactly equal, but usually may be hierarchically arranged, such that one or more of the causes are more important than one or more of the others, and sometimes one is the most important.
Here, we can concede that the "Israel situation" is causing flare-ups among Muslims -- but that doesn't mean there aren't other causes, in addition to the "Israel situation", for the Muslim attitude that leads to such flare-ups; nor does it necessarily mean those other causes cannot be more important than the "Israel situation" (namely, the massive and profound Jew-hatred in Islamic texts and history, right up to the present, most of it centuries before Hitler was ever in diapers).
But Leftists like Reepalu use the "Israel situation" precisely in order to suppress if not eliminate any other causes from consideration.
3) Reepalu's comment also reveals an inconsistency: Even if we granted him the accuracy of the dubious implication that Israel is an unjust oppressive regime at least on a par with the Apartheid South Africa regime of the 1980s, what Reepalu here is countenancing -- or "sadly understanding" -- is the lumping together and vilification of a whole people for the alleged crimes of a few. Were the sandal on the other foot (and in fact, in the delusional minds of PC MCs and Leftists, it already is on the other foot), Reepalu would unequivocally and immediately express zero tolerance for the lumping together and vilification of Muslims in general because of the atrocities a limited number of them have been perpetrating. Were non-Muslims in Malmo going around doing all the things Muslims are in fact doing to Jews, Reepalu would not "sadly understand" the situation: he would immediately call out the Neo-Fascist Swedish Police, round up those Islamophobic Racists, and billy-club those who seem to be resisting -- and then at a subsequent press conference would have the chutzpah to call the victims of his fascism "fascists".
Bill Maher making sense?
Now that also is madness. Good to know he's capable of some rational thinking. His comments around 9/11 left me stunned and pissed.
With the lefts tolerance of the "inequities" of islam I'm pleased that one so far left can see...
islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.
Sweden's reputation as a tolerant, liberal nation is being threatened by a steep rise in anti-Semitic hate crimes in the city of Malmo.
....................
“Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them… We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.”
—Karl Popper
You will notice that Islam incites *all of the above*.
"Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance." - Barack Hussein Obama
Anti-Semitism began in the fourth centuary with St. John Chrysostom's infamous " The once chosen children of God are now the children of Satan " and " God hates you " He, in effect called God a liar. Deut. ch.7/6 " For thou art a holy people unto the Lord thy God; The Lord thy God has chosen you to be a special people unto Himself above all the people who are upon the face of the earth." v7 " The Lord did not set His love upon you, nor choose you because you were more in number than any people, for you were the least of all people: " v8 " but because the Lord LOVED you, and because He would keep the oath which He had sworn unto your fathers ---" Read the saint's "Six Sermons against the Jews "
St. Augustine, same period also called God a liar. He said " The Jews are condemned to wander homeless forever " And God had said, " Even if the ordinances of the moon and the stars should fail, Israel will never cease to be a Nation before Me "
This is the time when the hatred like no other hatred was created. The most vicious, virulent. demonic, diabolical hatred, nurtured and fed with lies and blood libels to which more are added even in this 21st. centuary. What kind of sick, depraved evil would make someone say that the Israeli team that did such wonderful work in Haiti, went there to haverst the organs of those unfortunate people?
The Muslims didn't invent the hatred, they just gorged themselves on what they found in the monasteries and churches and they are regurgitating them.
Sons of apes, sons of pigs, lusty goats, viruses, bacteria, vermin, God killers, child killers, poisoners of wells, all these vile, nasty epithets first issued from the mouths (golden mouth of St. John Chrysostom ) of our saints and our great reformer Martin Luther.
This is the demonic hatred that has poisoned all human beings, even sections of the chosen people, who turn their hatred against God and their fellow Jews. This is why "Equivalence" is such favoured place of refuge.
I believe that to stop the Muslim take over of Europe, Britian and America (possibly punishment from God for calling Him a liar? ) is to go back to the 4th centuary and undo the evil from there. Then again, having called God a liar, how do you undo it?
I do bleeb that it all comes down to one thing. Reepalu doan like Jews.
He feeds the Crocodile, knowingly or not and condemns the future to experience the past. Once that fun has been had, as was pointed out by Spirit of 1683, all others will be next. I mean, it would be stupid to refuse the help of your next victims in dealing with your present victims. Free labor.
I edited this down some. I provided a link.
When Malmö Mayor Ilmar Reepalu expresses anti-Semitic sentiments and decries the legitimacy of only one state in the world - Israel - and no other, this is not an exception to the rule in Sweden.
It is the rule in Sweden.
Reepalu does what he does because he has the full backing of large swathes of the Swedish media. In Sweden, the media set the agenda based on personal political affiliations and the politicians comply.
(Does that sound familiar or what?!)
In functioning democracies, on the other hand, it is usually the politicians who listen to the citizens, set the agenda and run the country, while the media monitor and report on their progress.
(That stopped happening in the US long ago.)
The Institute for Global Jewish Affairs recently published an in-depth analysis of the aftermath of last year's controversial Aftonbladet affair in which the Swedish newspaper published allegations - refuted by the people cited as witnesses and subsequently withdrawn by the writer himself - that the Israeli army routinely killed Palestinian Arabs for the purpose of harvesting their organs.
http://www.ilyameyer.com/2010/02/sweden-well-on-way-to-becoming-first.html
Also...Estonia has in the recent past been accused of fueling anti-Semitism and glorifying Nazism after a memorial was erected there to a colonel in the Waffen SS who had the blood of thousands of people on his hands. There was a strong atmosphere of anti Semitism in Estonia dating back to when Reepalu was born there.
Remember this?
Malmo drew international attention last March when the city council barred spectators from a Davis Cup tennis match in which Israelis were competing, citing public order concerns because of planned anti-Israel protests. The Israelis won the competition. Subsequently, the International Tennis Federation banned Malmo from hosting Davis Cup events for the next five years.
Muslims make up 15% of the population. Malmo is the 3rd largest city in Sweden. If it can happen there it can happen anywhere in Sweden.
The Jews are returning to Israel. Iran is close to nukes and has been practicing launching missiles from ships. North Korea just vowed to make more nukes. China holds our financial testicles in its none too delicate grasp. We have an anti-American egoist in command of the most powerful army on earth.
Chinese curse..."May you live in interesting times".
islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.
I don't believe that time travel is necessary. I don't see any religions except for islam that are continuing, if you choose to see it that way, the hatred that you say started with Christians.Hatred for Jews, other colors or nationalities, has been going on for a long time. Prejudice that is.
Knowing mo (Piss Be Upon Him) as well as I can from his rantings in the koran, he seems to have his own problems with Jews. I see no signs of inspiration from any Christian texts for his hatred of Jews. Perhaps you do and could provide some evidence thereof? That would be interesting to say the least.
Yep...lotsa violence in the Bible...but I believe that you'll have a tough time finding any preachers preaching those parts of the Bible...or the violence that one might find in any other religious texts. Just one "religion" seems to inspire Blood and Death on a regular basis. Every single day. Sometimes 5 or 6 times a day.
islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.
Gravenimage, what a beautiful and appropriate quote from Karl Popper.
O yes, at least a part of the Muslims are the intolerant. And unlike the people around me and most parties in Holland I look at the situation worldwide. Because those who look only nationwide fail to see where the loyalty of Muslims mostly lies. Even if they support one's country as a patriotic citizen, then still it is uncertain whether they support our Democratic system, which is even more important.
Now we have daily evidence of the intolerance of Muslims where they have majority and power, but we never hold Muslims accountable who are minorities in Western countries. To them we are very tolerant, trusting even. Believing in their innocence until proven guilty. And belonging to Islam of course does not prove guilt. And of course Christian, Socialist people say that we must not stoop to the level of the rulers in Islamic countries in being intolerant, that we should teach by example.
But now we would be suicidal in the long run, if we did not somehow force the Muslims in Western countries to choose the side of democracy over the side of theocracy or at least a strict neutrality.
It may be logical, if not moral, that Muslims like it that Islam has the upper hand in 56 countries, and in many neighorhoods, but in the long run they must be FOR the same rights/ opportunities they enjoy in our countries for minorities in Islamic countries, including the full right of apostasy. And FOR the rights of Jews to live unmolested anywhere they choose.
If they can't bring themselves to choose for that, then we Westerners have the right to be just as intolerant to them as their co-religionist are to our "co-religionists". See Karl Popper. The banning of the minarets was only the beginning.
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.
To clarify one phrase in my comment above:
"Were non-Muslims in Malmo going around doing all the things Muslims are in fact doing to Jews..."
What I meant in that hypothetical situation is that if non-Muslims in Malmo were going around doing to Muslims all the things Muslims are in fact doing to Jews, then Reepalu would not hesitate to bring the iron fist of the State down upon those non-Muslims.
Jim Foster wrote:
"It's ironic that had the Quran been written in 1940 and not in the seventh century, it would instead be condemned as hate literature and banned."
It is not ironic. It is indicative of modern political correctness. Apparently, against your better senses, the mainstream conventional wisdom is that Islam is not subject to criticism.
Actually, it fits right into your theme that the real dilemma here is how to be properly magnanimous to those innocent Muslims who do not explicitly adhere to that hate speech of the Qur'an, and those who do, of course, you have never uttered a single syllable on how to actually achieve that.
I am sure it will follow shortly. Just apply the same logic used to differentiate between innocent Germans and those who fuly subscribed to Nazism during WW II. I am sure it can be done, right?
Your reference to Bill Maher was quite revealing to the community here, I am sure.
Even if we were persuaded to agree with Stella Barbut's thesis that the worst Jew-hatred of all was spawned in the early Patristic era before Islam even began (though one would require copious quotes from the alleged culprits (e.g., Chrysostom and Augustine) before the process of persuasion can be expected to even begin to happen) and continued at least as long as Luther (-- or does Stella Barbut, one wonders, push that forward and dredge out that tired old horse that has been refuted innumerable times, that Hitler, the Nazis and the Holocaust were all "Christian"? --), what possible relevance or utility does that have for our time, and our problem, today, when Muslims are the only people fomenting and perpetrating the worse sorts of Jew-hatred all over the world?
awake, Foster's reference to Bill Maher may be revealing: by itself, I wouldn't say it necessarily means much, but it could when we add it to the cumulative effect of Foster's various comments on various threads (about which I have already written at length about 3 separate times, most recently in the "Malaysia Caning" thread).
That said, though, even a broken clock can be right two times in a day: and a while back, Robert Spencer himself noted that he "almost fell off his chair" when he saw Bill Maher on his show casually say something to the effect that "Oh yeah, Mohammed was a violent warlord and a thief."
But the problem with Bill Maher -- and apparently with people like Jim Foster -- is that while they may be able to say critical things about this, that and the other thing in the Islamic orbit, they continue to couch those things in a larger framework of Equivalency and Ego Quoque: Bill Maher's latest claim to fame -- his "Religulous" book and movie -- was a screed against religions in general, and yet the vast bulk of it remained anti-Christian, while Islam got off light. The exact opposite, of course, would be the rational approach. And as you observed, one of Foster's motivations seems to be his anxious concern for the "good Muslims" out there, with the handful he has met in real life apparently reflecting multitudes (a majority? a slim majority? a vast majority?) for him.
What do the foolish anti-Semitic statements of St. John Chrysostom, St. Augustine of Hippo, and Martin Luther have to do with Islamic anti-Semitism? Absolutely nothing. The Muslims in Sweden don't use the obsolete writings of some Church Fathers to justify violence against Jews, but are rather inspired by the Qur'an and the words of Muhammad. Of course it serves the purpose of dhimmi Islamic apologists to divert attention to some ancient statements that are not taken seriously by any Christian today. Chrysostom's and Luther's anti-Semitic remarks are remembered only by academics and cynical leftists, while Muhammad's anti-Semitic commands are being utilized by Muslim jihadists on an every day basis.
If radical muslims are water, then moderate muslims are ice.
As the temperature rises due to the increased presence of their more radical brothers and sisters they also become radical, as the environment allows/demands until the flood comes.
islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.
If one imports large numbers of Mohammedans, one exposes to a totally unacceptable level of threat, first and foremost, any Jews resident within one's country.
I like Jews. Call me a lover of Zion! I look at Australia's history and I see that our always-small Jewish community has blessed our society out of all proportion to their numbers. I see that Jewish Aussie soldiers enlisted and bravely served in our armed forces - e.g. Sir John Monash. I see lawyers - e.g. Julius Stone, doctors, medical researchers, painters - e.g. Judith Cassab, scholars - e.g. Dr Luise Hercus, 'salvage linguist', brilliant and devoted tracker-down, learner, rescuer and recorder of at least five Aboriginal Australian languages, and merchants (our Myer chain of upmarket department stores was founded by a Jewish family). The first European in Australia who thought to write down the words *and* music of traditional Aboriginal songs, was...Sir Isaac Nathan, a Jew. (Years ago I saw his grave, in an Anglican cemetery, topped by a sculpture of a broken harp).
I don't want Mohammedans lifting even one finger against Aussie Jews. I don't want even one Jewish gravestone or one synagogue wall defaced by Mohammedan vandals. I don't want Aussie Jews driven out of here by whingeing, squawking, whining, bullying Mohammedan parasitical thugs.
So: anyone in Australia who cares about the Jews, and honours the immense debt that Western civilisation owes them (it *does*: Jerusalem redeems and transfigures Athens and Rome, not the other way around), has got to try to stop Mohammedan immigration/ stealth-invasion, the modern hegira.
With every Mohammedan who steps onto our soil the danger to Aussie Jews, first and foremost (though also, of course, the danger to every other non-Muslim resident of Australia, black white yellow or brindle; it's just that the Jews are first up on the Mohammedan 'people-to-kill-or-enslave' to-do list), increases perceptibly.
How, how, how do we get this fact into the heads of ALL our sitting parliamentarians, state and federal, on all sides of politics?
Invoking Bill Maher, unless it be to indicate that even he understands something correctly, is not a path to pursue on a regular basis. Maher is an insufferable snob who occasionally stumbles into the truth. But he most definitely remains clueless about Benjamin Franklin's assessment that "If man is bad with religion, imagine what he'd be without it."
Of course, Islam would be the exception to this rule (proving it in effect), but never expect Maher to grasp this. He's too bent on ridiculing Christianity and religion in general to ever comprehend the bigger picture. His cynicism is tiring, his common sense is absent and his knowledge base is deficient. He should be treated accordingly with this in mind.
"It's ironic that had the Quran been written in 1940 and not in the seventh century, it would instead be condemned as hate literature and banned."
Hitler wasn't clever enough to couch his writings as a religion .... Mohammed was.
"If radical muslims are water, then moderate muslims are ice."
Indeed: thin ice -- on which Foster, apparently, would want all of us to skate.
This is so tragic. Even the most slightly religious among us must pray for Ms. Popinski and the remaining Jewish families in Sweden. It is unspeakable that somebody who survived the concentration camps of the Nazis would be forced to endure a such a repeat of European moral blindness.
Hesperado bleated in libelous fashion:
"
Hesperado bleated, in typically libelous and pedantic fashion:
"But the problem with Bill Maher -- and apparently with people like Jim Foster -- is that while they may be able to say critical things about this, that and the other thing in the Islamic orbit, they continue to couch those things in a larger framework of Equivalency and Ego Quoque: Bill Maher's latest claim to fame -- his "Religulous" book and movie -- was a screed against religions in general, and yet the vast bulk of it remained anti-Christian, while Islam got off light. The exact opposite, of course, would be the rational approach. And as you observed, one of Foster's motivations seems to be his anxious concern for the "good Muslims" out there, with the handful he has met in real life apparently reflecting multitudes (a majority? a slim majority? a vast majority?) for him."
Hesperado again in a libelous and projectory mood, again bleated:
""If radical muslims are water, then moderate muslims are ice."
Indeed: thin ice -- on which Foster, apparently, would want all of us to skate.
Suddenly, an anecdote from Bill Maher means that I ascribe to everything that Bill Maher has to say on any and every subject under the sun.
Again, Hesperado seeks to pedantically analyze everything and anything I say, projecting into it his paranoia.
Hesperado, I am left with one conclusion: You are a pedantic and insufferable bore and asshole.
Awake pedantically, projectorily, and libelously bleated:
Actually, it fits right into your theme that the real dilemma here is how to be properly magnanimous to those innocent Muslims who do not explicitly adhere to that hate speech of the Qur'an, and those who do, of course, you have never uttered a single syllable on how to actually achieve that.
I am sure it will follow shortly. Just apply the same logic used to differentiate between innocent Germans and those who fuly subscribed to Nazism during WW II. I am sure it can be done, right?
Your reference to Bill Maher was quite revealing to the community here, I am sure.
In the above, Awake, who apparently should be rechristened "Asleep" would have it that one quote from Bill Maher turn me into a worshipper of Bill Maher.
I am not familiar with the the Bill Maher movie, and haven't seen any of his work in probably a decade; but that one anti-Muslim quote stood out in my mind as something I remember from over a decade ago when I read it somewhere. I don't have a t.v.
You and Hesperado seem to be really intent upon projecting into my words some sort of nefarious design. Cut it out. It only makes you appear to be an insufferably pedantic asshole. In fact, it's a form of harassment and persecution.
Just in case anybody overlooked this bit from the article:
It has been pointed out many times in many places by many students of the subject, that the degree of mohammedan violence toward the neighbors in any non-mohammedan country, is proportional to the percentage of the population made up of mohammedans.
I don't recall exactly, but I think I've seen 10% cited as the critical break-over point where the violence goes from highly localized and occasional to pervasive and continual.
In Malmo we are now told that mohammedans make up 20% of the population.
Malmo is done.
Sweden will probably follow before long.
For those that find this troubling, have a look at:
SIOE Stop Islamisation Of Europe
AI, you nailed it, "Reepalu doan like Jews."
Reepalu says, "...If Jews from the city want to move to Israel, that is not a matter for Malmo." Really? Translation: You Jews can take a hike, see if we care...we prefer muslims here! This guy prefers muslims over good, peaceful, productive citizens! Talk about a fool's bet!
Let's see, it used to be politically-incorrect to persecute Jewish people. Now that's passe' and it's OK if they're persecuted by the newly politically-correct muslims. You know, because of events in Israel, it's only natural that anti-Jewish riots should break-out in...MALMO!
Not to worry, though--this guy is taking action--he's started a DIALOGUE FORUM!
May I freshen-up your camel-urine, Mr. Mayor?
Is this in the tourist brochures:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzLECtFT4aU
These scenes make Malmo look like the UC Irvine campus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnP-XzB_U0
Stella, kudos for how well you expressed this.
10+% muslims in France & you get demands for restaurants to change to "halal", "halal" industrial park & a "halal" stock exchange along with a lot of other "creeping sharia".
20% muslims in (Malmo) Sweden and you get hate crimes, an huge increase in rapes and emergency services who are afraid to go into the area.......
You WILL submit or else...
What happens at 51%?
This clip from MEMRI indicates that anti-Semitism among Muslims really has little to do with Israel.
There are those who might quibble and claim that what this monkey of an imam states is not representative, but there is more than enough evidence to show that this is hardly a "trend."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDDp6v_QR0g
Thank you Jim Foster for understanding. I am sorry about the other commenters who didn't get it.
What's original about the Quran? Whoever wrote it stole whole chunks from the Torah, even cutting off of the nose is taken from the Torah. What would have stopped them from lifting the whole poisonous Jew hatred so conviently written down and stored in the churches and cathedrals which they also stole?
Jew hatred is one single demonic compound. It never changes, it never takes a day off. It is indefatigable in its search for new ways of expressing itself. The torch just passes from one group to the next, leaving each group drenched in the overbearing stench as it passes between them.
Instead of denying it, all should get together and find a workable way in which to extricate ourselves from this predicament.
Hi Hesp,
Hey, check out the comment made by 'Jim Foster' to both of us on this thread:
"Chimp/chump, you and Desperate-turdo can both take your tag harassment shtick and go to hell."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/malaysian-women-say-caning-for-adultery-was-good-for-them.html#comments
Stealla, thank you.
As regards those who "don't get it," don't worry about that. In this same thread, I stated that the Quran is hate literature and someone spun it into the exact opposite of what I plainly said, then not only spun it, but kept spinning it into a huge, long rant, not one word of which any person who read what I originally wrote could come away thinking if they approached things in good faith.
Anyway, I think that almost everyone here is pretty intelligent and means well.
We all have one thing in common: Our understanding that fanatical and supremacist Islam is humanity's common enemy.
Regards
Jim -- I've noticed discourse with numerous posters on this site in recent days:
Christian Soldier
champ
Hesperado
darcy
George
awake
...and others, too.
So what does that tell you? It tells me that maybe you're the problem, not them.
Stella, hi. I wanted to add that though surely Muhammed and his Islam are no pikers when it comes to their penchant for Jew-hatred, the Christian New Testament has its shate of "proof texts" that were used to justify persecution of Jews. Just look at the Gospel of John and its "You are of your father the devil" and "for fear of THE JEWS" remarks that are put into Yeshua of Nazareth's mouths by later writers. Those verses were in fact used for centuries to justify persecution.
I wish to point out though that, pretty much everywhere in the West, religiously-based anti-Semitism has been on the wane for a long time. Still, Jew-hatred based in religion is a factor at play in Eastern Europe with the Russian Orthodox Church, in Poland with individual Catholic priests and figures (though of course the Church in Rome rejects this), and in places like Greece within elements of the Greek Orthodox Church.
In most of the West, anti-Semitism is found today only among fringe elemenents in the church communities,such as right wing extremists like Ted Pike, etc. and leftist elements within some of the larger, more traditional branches of Protestantism; but the impact is still felt and not totally gone.
I agree completely. Just remember who was bosom buddies with the Grand Mufti.
People who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Champ, as I just stated elsewhere, I will no longer play this "game" of "spray-the-gasoline-on-the-bonfire." It is ending right now, right here, and with me.
Regards
Again Muslims do not assimilate with the culture of the host country. The socialist policies of Europe enable the Muslims to take over entire towns creating "no go" zones.
"Many of them are unemployed and confined to life on bleak estates where the Scandinavian dream of prosperity and equality seemed far away"
Why is this and how exactly are they "confined"? Are these estates prisons?
How is it harassing Jews brings the Muslims closer to equality and prosperity?
When Muslims show no respect to non Muslims, when they teach their children hate from birth, how can anyone expect any different behavior?
Why do the Swedes just stand by and let this happen?
Where is the Viking spirit? The spirit that defends the home and guests there?
I got this list of Judeo-phobic ayat from the site Atlas Shrugs.
The Koran on the Jews
“Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews…” (5:82).
“Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.” (5:78).
“Is it ever so that when they make a covenant a party of them set it aside? The truth is, most of them believe not. And when there came to them a messenger from Allah [Muhammad], confirming what was with them [the Torah], a party of the people of the Book threw away the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if (it had been something) they did not know!” (2:100-101).
“The People of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do” (2:143-144).
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (9:29).
“And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!” (9:30)
The Jews killed their prophets (2:61; 2:87; 2:91; 3:21; 3:112; 3:181; 3:183; 4:155; 5:70), and boast “we killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary” (4:157).
“Allah hath heard the taunt of those who say: ‘Truly, Allah is indigent and we are rich!’ We shall certainly record their word and (their act) of slaying the prophets in defiance of right, and We shall say: ‘Taste ye the penalty of the Scorching Fire!’” (3:181)
“Why do not the rabbis and the doctors of Law forbid them from their (habit of) uttering sinful words and eating things forbidden? Evil indeed are their works.” (5:63)
“The Jews say: ‘Allah’s hand is tied up.’ Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief” (5:64).
The Jews “strive to do mischief on earth” – that is, fasaad, for which the punishment is specified in 5:33: “they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land.”
“Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. They will do you no harm, barring a trifling annoyance; if they come out to fight you, they will show you their backs, and no help shall they get. Shame is pitched over them (like a tent) wherever they are found, except when under a covenant (of protection) from Allah and from men; they draw on themselves wrath from Allah, and pitched over them is (the tent of) destitution. This because they rejected the Signs of Allah, and slew the prophets in defiance of right; this because they rebelled and transgressed beyond bounds.” (3:110-112)
“And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished. Thou wilt not cease to discover treachery from all save a few of them. But bear with them and pardon them. Lo! Allah loveth the kindly (5:13).
“Among the People of the Book are some who, if entrusted with a hoard of gold, will (readily) pay it back; others, who, if entrusted with a single silver coin, will not repay it unless thou constantly stoodest demanding, because, they say, ‘there is no call on us (to keep faith) with these ignorant (Pagans).’ but they tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it.” (3:75)
“O Messenger! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say ‘We believe’ with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews -- men who will listen to any lie -- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, ‘If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!’ If any one’s trial is intended by Allah, thou hast no authority in the least for him against Allah. For such - it is not Allah’s will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.” (5:41)
“There is a party of them who distort the Scripture with their tongues, that ye may think that what they say is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture. And they say: It is from Allah, when it is not from Allah; and they speak a lie concerning Allah knowingly” (3:78).
“Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: ‘This is from Allah,’ to traffic with it for miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.” (2:79)
“But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.” (5:13)
“Many of the People of the Scripture long to make you disbelievers after your belief, through envy on their own account, after the truth hath become manifest unto them’” (2:109).
“And when there comes to them a Book from Allah, confirming what is with them, although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith, when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognised, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith. “ (2:89)
“For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) good and wholesome which had been lawful for them; in that they hindered many from Allah’s Way; that they took usury, though they were forbidden; and that they devoured men’s substance wrongfully; we have prepared for those among them who reject faith a grievous punishment.” (4:160-161)
“Thou wilt indeed find them, of all people, most greedy of life,-even more than the idolaters: Each one of them wishes He could be given a life of a thousand years: But the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. For Allah sees well all that they do.” (2:96)
Allah transforms disobedient Jews into apes and pigs (2:63-66; 5:59-60; 7:166).
Check out the work that Bill Warner has done at PoliticalIslam.com where he uses a statistical analysis of the Koran and shows how it is more anti-Semitic than Mein Kampf. There is nothing remotely close to that in the Bible or even just the New Testament.
Allah is the Devil and Mohammed is his prophet.
Yet again, Jim Foster takes a stab, and a stand, for Equivalency: but actually, this time it's far worse, in the form of warmly supporting the commenter "Stella Barbut", who purveys the most virulent Ego Peior on the subject of anti-Semitism I have ever seen on Jihad Watch.
A recap on my terms:
Equivalency -- when Muslims and their Fifth Column Enablers (whether witting or unwittingly witless) try to purvey the notion that the West is no better than Islam, and that hence Muslims are no worse than Westerners.
Tu Quoque -- This is when a Muslim indulges in Equivalency, effectively saying "You too are as bad as you claim we are."
Ego Quoque -- This is when a Westerner indulges in Equivlency, effectively saying "We too are as bad as the Islamophobes claim the Muslims are."
Ego Peior -- This one extends the disease further: it is when a Westerner goes beyond merely saying "We too are as bad as the Muslims" and moves into the darker deeper waters of masochism by saying "We are worse than the Muslims are!"
Consider the words of the commenter "Stella Barbut", who in a comment above described the 4th century Christian West (200 years before Mohammed was born), and whom Jim Foster warmly supported:
This is the time when the hatred like no other hatred was created. The most vicious, virulent. demonic, diabolical hatred, nurtured and fed with lies and blood libels to which more are added even in this 21st. centuary...
The Muslims didn't invent the hatred, they just gorged themselves on what they found in the monasteries and churches and they are regurgitating them.
Sons of apes, sons of pigs, lusty goats, viruses, bacteria, vermin, God killers, child killers, poisoners of wells, all these vile, nasty epithets first issued from the mouths (golden mouth of St. John Chrysostom ) of our saints and our great reformer Martin Luther.
This is the demonic hatred that has poisoned all human beings, even sections of the chosen people, who turn their hatred against God and their fellow Jews.
Notice how Jim Foster, in warmly supporting Stella Barbut in her dripping hatred of Christians and Christianity -- well, only Christians and Christianity for a thousand and 700 years, from the 4th century to the 21st century -- helpfully suggests to his new friend that she push her date of Christian origin of this "demonic hatred", this "sick, depraved evil" back to the New Testament itself (in doing so also echoing Muslims with their idea of the "corruption of the Bible" by claiming that these allegedly anti-Semitic verses were added to the New Testament).
Make no mistake: this "Stella Barbut" is definitely in the deeper, darker waters of the Ego Peior. She even so much as says so, in belittling Equivalence for not going far enough:
This is why "Equivalence" is such favoured place of refuge.
(Note: With a Stella Barbut, this is only an Ego Peior in the sense that Stella Barbut is a Westerner -- assuming she's a Westerner, that is, and not a Muslim troll -- and thus has at least a superficial pertinence in being able to say "We" or "I" (i.e., "Ego") in the formulation "We are worse than they are". In her own mind, though, one senses that she has already Gnostically detached herself from the West, which she seems to perceive as a hostile cosmion surrounding her on all sides, in which she dwells as an alien in her twisted form of Judaism. And she certainly isn't doing herself favors by enabling our real enemy, the Muslims, with her psychedelic fantasies of fear and loathing of the civilization around her.)
Stella Barbut has failed, however, to substantiate her claim that Islam derived its anti-Semitic hatred from Christians. Her only semblance of an argument in this regard (repeated when she posted more recently to thank Jim Foster for his warm support) is that the Koran shows signs of having borrowed from the Torah, therefore the anti-Semitism of the Koran and of the Sunnah must have derived from the Christians. This hardly stands the test, and when one is levelling accusations as grave and sweeping as Barbut does against 1700 years of Christianity, one better have better evidentiary ammunition than this. One great place for her and her new friend Jim Foster to start would be to take that list of anti-Semitic Koran verses which Jim Foster helpfully posted above and prove that they were derived from Christian sources. Caution: no one should hold their breath waiting for this proof from Barbut & Foster.
Indeed, Stella Barbut hasn't even demonstrated her core claim -- that 4th century Christianity originated this "demonic" anti-Semitism, from which she spins her mad theory that the edifice of Christianity thereafter over the centuries until now has perpetuated this "demonic" anti-Semitism.
I was slightly incorrect about one thing earlier, though. Stella Barbut does proffer advice on how to "stop the Muslim take over of Europe, Britian and America" -- namely, it would be for the West "to go back to the 4th centuary and undo the evil from there."
A dauntingly complex task. Though first of all, we'd need to be convinced that that "evil" began then, in John Chrysostom and St. Augustine and other august Christians of that Patristic era.
But Barbut seems to have decided that she is pessimistic about the West ever undoing its own evil:
Then again, having called God a liar, how do you undo it?
Remember, Jim Foster warmly supported this vile tripe. Yet another feather in his cap.
Hi champ, I just went back to that thread and noticed that, among other Fosterisms. His instances of lashing back at others far exceeds in quantity and suffers in quality what they have been dishing to him. If he would tone down his ostensible irascibility and respond with more substance to challenges, people would treat him infinitely better. But I suspect these displays of sparks and fire from him are calculated to obfuscate the challenges, and are not really derived from genuine emotion.
In a sane world, Mr Reepalu's name would already be known as an adjective, our twenty first century 'Quisling'. But of course, it's not a sane world.
Good for you, daddy, but it won't end with me ...not as long as you continue to be an apologist for islam, which obviously you are.
Glad to hear that you will no longer speak directly to me, but I most certainly will enlighten others to your evil intentions. You are a liar and an apologist for islam, just as others have noticed about you before me. This is quite clear, now.
You portray yourself as being AGAINST islam, but now the truth has come out, and we can see you for what you truly are: an apologist for islam.
The game may end for you, but not for me. Take care.
The poster 'Jim Foster' is in fact an apologist for islam. The thread below adds further proof to this ever growing truth:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/pakistan-taliban-behead-3-sikhs-for-refusing-to-convert-to-islam.html#comments
And given his vile and aggressive manner by which he has attacked me and others, I am beginning to wonder if he's a muslim, and not really a Jew. Hmm, time will tell.
Regards, fellow followers of Truth and Freedom!
Hi Hesp,
You are by far one of THE most formidable and insightful posters we have on Jihad Watch! I cannot thank you enough for your spot-on insights over the years. You have opened my eyes on so many occasions regarding not only the PC/MC paradigm with regards to islam, but to what otherwise might just be *subtle nuances* from other posters, where you succinctly bring the Truth to light.
So I wanted to publicly 'Thank You' for your dedication and hard work against this evil threat, and to say that I truly admire your hard work and contributions in supporting Truth and Freedom.
God Bless You, Hesperado ...and God Bless ALL the other posters here, and elsewhere, that fight for Truth and Freedom, too!
Yrs,
champ :)
Thanks champ, I appreciate your heartfelt support very much. God bless you too.
Hi Robert and all of you Jihadwatch followers, as I promised last week, here is the second article of "blogging the Qur'an" translated in French. You can find it here
http://www.avraidire.eu/2010/02/bloguer-le-coran-sourate-1-%e2%80%9cle-prologue%e2%80%9d-ou-%e2%80%9cl%e2%80%99ouverture%e2%80%9d/
Also I have started to publish a fantastic translation of "the Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam" with some chapters already available, you can find it here
http://www.avraidire.eu/category/islam/robert-spencer-islam/le-guide-politiquement-incorrect-de-lislam-robert-spencer-islam-islam/
Bonjour à Robert et à vous tous lecteurs de Jihadwatch, comme promis la semaine dernière, voici le deuxième article dans la série "bloguer le Coran", traduction en français de la série "blogging the Qur'an" écrite par Robert Spencer.Vous pouvez le trouver ici
http://www.avraidire.eu/2010/02/bloguer-le-coran-sourate-1-%e2%80%9cle-prologue%e2%80%9d-ou-%e2%80%9cl%e2%80%99ouverture%e2%80%9d/
J'ai aussi commencé à publier des traductions d'un livre de Robert Spencer, "le guide politiquement incorrect de l'Islam", vous pouvez déjà trouver quelques chapitres en français ici
http://www.avraidire.eu/category/islam/robert-spencer-islam/le-guide-politiquement-incorrect-de-lislam-robert-spencer-islam-islam/
Once again, feel free to share the news using social networks buttons available on my blog to educate as many people as you can on Islam, especially the french speakers. I will publish another one next week,in the meantime, enjoy!
Antoine Martin
Hesperado is more like a desperado. All venom and nothing enlightening.
Notice also the use of the word "ayat" by Foster in the following sentence "I got this list of Judeo-phobic ayat from the site Atlas Shrugs."
Ayah (آية ʾāyatun, plural Ayat آيات ʾāyātun) is the Arabic word for sign or miracle, cognate with Hebrew ot (אות), means sign. The word usually refers to each one of the 6236 verses [1] found in the Qur'an (6349 ayat counting in 113 bismilas, excluding one for Surah At-Taubah). Muslims regard each ayah of the Qur'an a sign from Allah. The word Ayat is also used by Christians in countries with strong Arabic language influence, such as Indonesian Christians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayah
Jim Foster- Not sure why they're pounding on you quite so much.
What an INANE statement!
'Nuff said ...
kip,
Perhaps you haven't noticed, but on one hand Jim will show utter disdain for islam, but on the other make apologies for it. Looks like his left hand doesn't know what his right hand is doing. Or is this tactical apologia?
Keep reading his comments, and then decide for yourself.
Wow, ThinkThrice ...good catch!
OK, that is way too weird. Yeah, Jim is definitely one to keep an eye on.
Another tid-bit that lends support to him being a possible mohammedan.
Stay tuned ....
I'll check them out. The ones I saw seemed pretty reasonable, but I'll look again
You're welcome!
Hi kip,
You may want to read through this thread:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/pakistan-taliban-behead-3-sikhs-for-refusing-to-convert-to-islam.html#comments
In particular, this thread reveals more of what others are noticing about Jim.
kip, if you haven't followed along and read the exchanges, then of course you would wonder why we have been "pounding on" Jim Foster (and not just in this thread, but in at least three others, including the one champ linked to above). If you have followed along and read the exchanges, then in order to make persuasive your supportive "wondering" about Jim Foster's victim status, you'd need to present an argument defending that.
Or you can just opt for the lazy way out, like Stella Barbut.
Yes champ and Think Thrice --
Foster knows enough to use words like "ayat" and "ahadith" (that was from an earlier thread I believe), yet he was so certain that "Islamic thought and law" did not allow rape!
Of course, we mean rape as civilized people define it. I was rather surprised Foster didn't try that common tactic I have seen among Apologists who try to argue that the Koran and Hadiths do not in fact condone "rape" -- which is superficially accurate: they do not condone the action under that concept or term. But they do, as Kinana of Khaybar in his excellent challenge of Foster showed, in fact condone the action of rape itself as rape is defined by civilized people. I.e., a rose is a rose by any other name.
This tactic among Apologists is really absurdly comical when exposed: here's an analogy to illustrate what they are doing: Imagine a tribe who believes in forcing women to have sex against their will (that's the definition of rape.). Now, let us say this tribe calls this action of forcing women to have sex against their will "Xeembah". Along comes some civilized people, who witness rapes committed several times by the men of this tribe. The civilized people also find out this practice is part of a venerable tradition going back centuries, rooted in their tribal holy texts. The civilized people confront the tribal elders and tell them they are committing a horrible crime.
"What crime is that?" ask the council of tribal elders.
"Rape."
"We do not allow 'rape'," say the tribal elders.
"We have seen your men over and over forcing women to have sex against their will," say the civilized strangers, "and we know it is enshrined in your holy books".
"That is not 'rape'," say the tribal elders: "That is 'Xeembah'. And 'Xeembah' is our holy tradition. Now get out of our land!"
Bottom line, anyone who has been reading Jihad Watch for six years in a supportive fashion -- as Foster claimed he had -- and anyone who furthermore is interested enough in Islam to have purchased hadiths and tafsirs to study, has by now no excuse for making such a statement about Islamic "thought and law" and rape, and then to get all rudely defensive when others take him to task for this, rather than intelligently to defend his claim. It took the time and trouble of the commenter Kinana of Khaybar -- who had to press him twice -- before Foster relented and admitted he was full of shit; though it seems evident he only did so because his back was up against the wall with a spotlight and the audience of a full house on him, with a challenger in Kinana of Khaybar comporting himself impeccably, thus giving Foster no opportunity to wiggle out.
Anyone who sees how Islamic apologists argue their side and how much effort is required to nail them down can appreciate how easily the average naive Westerner in the typical Sunday school or night class or seminar is to fool. Even if an individual in those situations does know the truth they aren't going to be able to make a huge scene and argue through all the points as can be done on a forum like this. They end up looking like the one who is being disagreeable, intolerant, bigoted. It is going to be a miracle if in our lifetime the average person in the West knows the real truth about Islam and we as a civilization begin the process of removing Islam from the West in order to save the West.
Jim alleged: "...yet he was so certain that 'Islamic thought and law' did not allow rape!"
I, too, was stunned to learn that a purported 6 year veteran of Jihad Watch, and an affluent reader of hadiths and tafsirs, could possibly make such a preposterous comment. A total newbie, yes, or a taqiyya artist, for sure; but not a seasoned veteran intent on getting at the truth about islam.
I no longer smell a rat, I SEE a rat.
Hear, hear!! ...excellent points!
Additionally, Hesp and ThinkThrice ....
As you had pointed out Hesp, Jim's outbursts and short temper are also very revealing. Notice how aggressive and even thug-like his style of dialogue is. He is very bullying, and his flashpoint is super quick. Sound familiar?! This, too, leads me to think that he "might" be a mohammedan.
"Champ, as I just stated elsewhere, I will no longer play this "game" of "spray-the-gasoline-on-the-bonfire." It is ending right now, right here, and with me.
Regards"
Was this is last comment? He wrote this comment on this thread at 12:00. I haven't seen hide nor hair of him since. Perhaps he's "ending" things by leaving? Hmm, we shall see.
Champ,
You da' MAN!!
G
Oh come on. You must give a little bit of room. I admit I have not spent a lot of time checking out Jim Foster's comments, but I have seen a number of very strong anti- Islamic comments from him, which, not surprisingly led me to assume he was on our side.I am very possibly wrong, and I will gladly reconsider when I see more comments that sound apologist. The over the top language seems more personal than political between you all.
I have been pounded on Jihad Watch myself, as I know you have, for questioning ever so slightly someone's opinion on something, so I tend to be a bit more sympathetic. When I read his comments on rape for instance, I disagreed, but did not automatically jump to the conclusion he was a Jihadi. His very strong anti- Islamic comments on other articles stuck in my mind more than his wishy-washy comments on details here.He needs to use more civility, but he is not alone here with that fault.
"You da' MAN!!"
LOL ...I'm a woman, George :)
Let the mayor of Malmö know the world is watching: ilmar.reepalu@malmo.se
Champ,
YOU DA' WOMAN!!
G
Aw, thanks!! :) :)
Asshole?
thought you were better than that Jim.
I guess I was wrong.
Mostly I think, because he's calling people that have been posting here for years "asshole" and such.
I regret my earlier support for him.
Good shot or not...I'm not quite sure where he's aiming.
islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.
Hesperado...desperado...wow...I'm impressed...
Ma'aneh rakh, meshiv chema. :)
Think, I'm not sure what's the significance of making an issue of my use of the term "ayat." Robert also uses it, as he uses the term surah, rather than refer to chapter or verse.
When I refer to Tanach I say "posuk." I don't use either "ayat" or "posuk" when referring to the Christian Bible.
Regards
Alaskan, no one appreciates having their views continually distorted, misrepresented, and taken out of context.
I am always happy to discuss things with intelligence people of good faith and character.
Stella, pay no attention to the man in the glass booth.
You and I are not the first to have what we say here misrepresented, distorted, or tweeked with. Robert Spencer himself has for years been a victim of this man's vindictive nature. Consider yourself in excellent company. :)
"By their deeds you shall know them."
Jim Foster tries to put Stella Barbut in the same category of Robert Spencer. I wonder what Robert Spencer, a Christian who respects the Patristic theologians, would think of Barbut's utter condemnation of the Patristic theologians as "demonic" and as having originated anti-Semitism. I don't wonder; I know.
The fact that Foster continues to defend Barbut by itself, without any of the other stuff, damns him.
???
"Constantine's Sword" offers a good, scholarly treatment of anti-Semitism as it developed under Christian thought in the West, unless of course, like some, you think that Petlura, the Haidamacki, Torquemada, the popes who locked the Jews into insufferably miserable ghettoes for centuries, those who held the cross while leading massacres and pogroms in Eastern Europe, and people like Chelmnitsky were all Scientologists who were led to their actions by the by-laws of Amway salesmen.
Anyway, speaking of "PC" diseased mindsets, it seems like our very own local representative of what can only be dscribed as another version of the Taliban and Torquemada mentality is really obsessed with distorting my words and obsessively harassing me; but of course he has a long history of doing that to others.
Oh well.
"Oh well."
That is your attitude?
This is an anti-jihad website dealing with the single most important and dangerous issue of our day, and you want to make this about you?!
Legitimate questions have been raised regarding some glaring contradictory statements made by you, and you conclude with, Oh well.
No, Jim, I'm sorry, you need to take these matters very seriously; and as it stands now, you don't want to be challenged or confronted when something you state is clearly amiss.
Again, this is an anti-jihad website, and none of us are exempt from being challenged with legitimate questions.
Take care.
Thanks again Jim Foster. Yes there are a number of incomprehensible sayings attributed to Jesus in the New Testament. The 1st. chapter of St. John's Gospel begins with the words "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.... and the Word was made Flesh...." The Word was made Flesh to save us from our sins, so why did He first call Abraham, make an everlasting covenant with him and his descendants, ratify it with an oath which He swore on His Own most Holy Name, spend more than three thousand years, teaching them and drilling into them that there is but One God an invisible God, and punishing them severely when they strayed after visible gods,human, animal, wood or stone, then come in the Flesh and ask them to accept Him as God? knowing full well that they would not and could not because of His Own teaching? It would seem from this text that He deliberately made it impossible for the Jews to be saved.
I wrote to the Pope asking how this could be. I don't think I will get an answer.
It is true that other than the Muslims nobody is shouting "kill the Jews" but at the insistense of the Muslims, everybody is willing to go along with the boycotting of Israel and the arresting of IDF officers and Israeli politicians on trumped up charges of war crimes, just as the Mufti persuaded Hitler to send even the children he was willing to save to the gas chambers instead of deporting them as he had intended.
Still, at the urging of the Muslims all nations want Israel to give Judea and Jerusalem to the descendants of the Mufti, knowing full well that neither the Christians nor Jews will ever have access to the holy places again. This is a more subtle and pervasive form of anti-Semitism that will just as surely kill Israel as a knife slitting a throat.
The purpose is anti-jihad, to stop the Islamization of Europe and the rest of the world. First break the ties that bind the two together in a jihad against Israel.
"It would seem from this text that He deliberately made it impossible for the Jews to be saved."
If you think this is the case, you need to read Scripture more carefully. He came to save the lost ones of Israel - and the Jews - although not all - did believe Him. They followed his commands and shared the Gospel with the Gentiles (the rest of us).
He did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it.
And it all goes back to the first book of the Bible. In Hebrew the plural form is used in the verbs concerning God; note the usage of the plural pronouns and possessives here: “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness."
The only people not saved then and now are those that reject Him.
Please have a closer look. The Word of God is "living and powerful..."
It sounds like you are tying to judge God's actions, but you have to remember that we are not smart enough to comprehend God's whole purpose or ways. Think about it, he is God and you are going to nitpick how he decided to handle things? He did not set the Israelites up for failure. To the extent that he knew beforehand that they would not ultimately be able to save themselves through laws and sacrifices etc., it was necessary for him to allow them to try, as an example for all of us, and in failing, ultimately pave the way as was foretold in the OT for Jesus whose sacrifice takes the place of anything mankind individually or as a group could ever offer. Muhammad rejected Jesus, and then went on to tell lies about the Jews and Christians. He and those who follow him are outside grace and won't have a leg to stand on in the end, on Judgment Day.
You rock, Champ!
Hi, Hesperado! You da man!!!!!!!!!!!!! You rock!
Paladin, hi. Whatever our personal beliefs are, or are not, we do have a common enemy in Islamic jihadism.
You stated:
"And it all goes back to the first book of the Bible. In Hebrew the plural form is used in the verbs concerning God; note the usage of the plural pronouns and possessives here: “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness."
This is only partially true. The word "Elokim" is only one of the words used for God, and it is a masculine-case word which literally means "power" (as in ba'kel yadi, "the power of my hand" meaning something within my ability.Elokim can also mean, God, gods, judges, mighty ones, powers, etc. all depending upon context of course.
The "na'seh adam betsalmenu, kidmutenu" means literally "Let us make man in our likeness, in our image" refers to the Creator's consulting with the angelic powers before creating man, informing the new creation (man) with divine powers. In the tradition of the mekubalim, the plural form is actually seen as a projection into the future, wherein the mother and father are said to be partners in creation (with God) in the formation of a new human child. There are many other interpretations as well.
There are many other names for "God" in Hebrew as well, all of them in the singular, and some of them feminine in case.
As far as I am aware (and I have NEVER encountered it elsewhere in the Tanach) the word Elokim-God is never used in conjunction with a plural verb.
That being said, we all have a common enemy and it is in Islamism.
Stella, hi. Thanks for the response.
No matter what differences in religion, language, race, etc. divide us superficially, we all have one common enemy at the moment, and it's called Islamic jihadism.
God bless.
"I look at Australia's history and I see that our always-small Jewish community has blessed our society out of all proportion to their numbers." -- dda
As they have done wherever they have gone, dumbles. Their real contributions to humanity have exceeded, by many orders of magnitude, in both quality and quantity, even the most wildly exaggerated, but wholly imaginary, claims of Islam.
In an extension to that theme, Australian Jews have often played a very important role in human rights in their country, particulary in humanizing the plight of the continents original inhabitants:
http://www.join.org.au/media/Befriending_the_Native_Aussies_20031003.htm
A search will pull up a lot more information than what's available in the site I just mentioned.
Jim Foster,
Go ahead and make fun of me all you want for supporting your detractors. I'm not the least bit ashamed! In fact, you're shaming yourself(again).
The people I'm cheering-on have the courage to confront a bully. I find that easy to admire.
Thinking about it, you have to conclude that folks who are active on a site like Jihadwatch are not naturally well-disposed to bullies--islam being the ultimate world-bully of our time. You may have done well to consider that before making your tempestuous entrance.
I admit that I had an immediate and visceral reaction to your act here. I wish you had proven me wrong. I'm surely not too big to admit if I'm wrong. But most of your subsequent actions here have only reinforced that first impression.
Look, Jim, I don't know what your problem is;
do you always play this poorly with the other kids? You know, you could take a lesson from this, get your ego in check and become a legitimate contributor here. Or you can keep doing what you're doing, to nobody's benefit, least of all yours.
Do you really want to continue here like this?
I hope you'll think about it...
G
Great advice, George :)
Right on, George! You rock!
Thanks for always making sure that your responses are appropriate, pertinent to the theme being discussed in the thread, and enlightening.
I am learning more and more from you every day! Thanks so much for making me a better person!
Your wisdom, lack of sarcasm, honesty, refusal to engage in childish behavior, or ever to take vengeance due to some petty misunderstanding, as well as your loving, forward-looking demeanor, are an inspiration to us all!
Did I tell you how much you rock!
"Don't waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don't throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you." Matthew 6:7
"Old" Testament Wisdom:
"Take not vengeance nor bear a grudge".......Leviticus 19
Love,
Jimmy
Right on, Champ! You rock!
Thanks for always making sure that your responses are appropriate, pertinent to the theme being discussed in the thread, and enlightening.
I am learning more and more from you every day! Thanks so much for making me a better person!
Your wisdom, lack of sarcasm, honesty, refusal to engage in childish behavior, or ever to take vengeance due to some petty misunderstanding, as well as your loving, forward-looking demeanor, are an inspiration to us all!
Did I tell you how much you rock!
"Don't waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don't throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you." Matthew 6:7
"Old" Testament Wisdom:
"Take not vengeance nor bear a grudge".......Leviticus 19
Love,
Jimmy
Since the topic of European, non-Muslim antisemitism has arisen, and in the interests of clearing the ground:
The classic studies of antisemitism within what might loosely be called 'Christendom' are to be found in Malcolm Hay's The Foot of Pride and in James Parkes 'The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue'.
It should be noted that James Parkes, a consistent and informed friend of Zion (for a beautiful summary of Parkes' life and work, see Haim Chertok's obituary of him, 'James Parkes: A Final Reckoning)
http://covenant.idc.ac.il/en/vol2/issue2/final-reckoning.html
remained a convinced and devout Anglican Christian all his life.
Despite the appalling history that Hay and Parkes unflinchingly record and analyse in all its terrible detail, it *is* possible to be a Christian - to recognise and *worship* Yeshua of Nazareth as the Son of the Living God, resurrected and glorified - and yet to conduct oneself toward Jewish people with nothing but sincere love and, indeed, too, astonished and awe-stricken gratitude.
Those who can read French are also urged to read two books by Jacques Ellul, Righteous Gentile, friend and mentor of Bat Yeor, and clear-eyed critic of Islam.
I refer to his 'Un Chretien Pour Israel' (1983), in particular the chapters entitled 'Of Faith' (Gospels and Letters; Theology), and to his last completed work, 'Ce Dieu Injuste? - Theologie Chretienne Pour Le Peuple D'Israel'. In both places he deconstructs 'christian' antisemitism in a masterly manner.
This is how, in 'Un Chretien Pour Israel', Ellul writes of the mindset of a Christian such as himself:
"Nous arrivons maintenant a deux autres questions “theologiques” non moins centrales dans ma comprehension d’Israel et qui m’ont conduit a ma prise de parti. Il s’agit de certaines accusations portees contre ce peuple. Il est donc, au premier chef, aux yeux des chretiens, le peuple qui a refuse le Messie.
"Assurement, c’est le point de rupture. En tant que chretien, je ne puis le minimiser puisque Jesus-Christ est au centre de la foi que j’espere, de ma comprehension de l’Ecriture, de la Revelation de Dieu, de ma certitude des promesses de la resurrection et du Royaume. Il est l’accomplissement de toutes les propheties, l’aboutissement de la longue marche d’Israel, le resume du Reste d’Israel, l’acquisition du Salut, ayant ete pour nous justice et sanctification (nous, tous les hommes).
" Et les Juifs ont des quantites de bonnes raisons pour ne pas le reconnaitre pour tel.
"Pas seulement la reaction immediate des Scribes, pharisiens et chefs du peuple, mais actuellement une doctrine fermement concue, en ne tenant pas compte des reactions antichretiennes bien comprehensibles après tant de siecles de persecution, de rejet et d’expropriation.
' We come now to two other “theological” questions that are no less central in my understanding of Israel, and which have led me to my choice of sides [i.e. his decision to support the Jewish state of Israel in its self-defence against the Jihad].
'It’s about certain accusations [that are] brought against this people.
'So it [Israel] is, first, in the eyes of some Christians, the people who refused the Messiah. Certainly, this is where the break occurs.
'Being a Christian, I am not able to minimise [the fact that] Jesus Christ is at the centre of the faith in which I hope, of my understanding of scripture, of the Revelation of God, of my certainty of the promises of the resurrection and of the Kingdom. He is the fulfilment of all the prophecies, the goal of the long journey of Israel, the summation of the Remnant of Israel, the acquisition of Salvation, having been for us [both] justice and sanctification (us, all human beings).
'And the Jews have many good reasons for not recognising him as such.
'Not only the immediate reaction of the Scribes, Pharisees and leaders of the people, but actually a doctrine strictly conceived; even if we don’t take into account the anti-Christian reactions that are very understandable after so many centuries of persecution, rejection and despoliation.
"Donc la barriere passe la.
"Mais n’ai-je pas a entendre aussi justement la parole de mon Seigneur:
"tu aimeras ton prochain (et quel est le plus proche prochain d’un chretien sur le plan de la foi, sinon le Juif?)
"et tu aimeras ton ennemi (et que l’est celui qui peut, par son rejet de ce qui est au centre de ma foi, le Tout de ma foi, apparaitre comme plus ennemi, par rapport a moi?). Il a refuse le Messie, celui qui pour ma foi est son Messie.
"Mais je ne cesse de lire dans cette histoire de Dieu avec les Juifs que constamment ils ont desobei et constamment Dieu a fini par faire tourner cette desobeissance a une plus grande gloire.
"C’est aussi a ce rejet que je dois appliquer “la ou le peche abonde (et forcement ce rejet du Messie est pour moi le peche!), la grace surabonde”.
"Autrement dit je ne puis en rien me substituer a Dieu pour porter le jugement contre Israel et le declarer peuple rejete, maudit, exclu de la grace, etc.
"Au contraire, je dois theologiquement l’admettre comme toujours peuple de Dieu, au benefice du Messie deja venu et dans l’attente du Messie a venir.
'So, the barrier runs there.
'But do I not also hear, exactly, the word of my Lord:
"you will love your neighbour
(and what is the Christian’s nearest neighbour, on the level of faith, if not the Jew?)
"and you will love your enemy
(and who is the one who can – by his rejection of the one who is at the centre of my faith, of All my faith – appear more as [my] enemy, in relation to me?). He refused the Messiah, the one who according to my faith is his Messiah.
"But I never cease reading in this history of God with the Jews that they have constantly disobeyed, and God has constantly ended by turning that disobedience into an even greater glory.
"It is to this refusal, also, that I must apply [the words]: “there where sin abounds (and necessarily this rejection of the Messiah is, for me, sin!), there grace abounds even more”.
"In other words I cannot – at all – put myself in the place of God in order to pronounce judgement against Israel and declare him a people rejected, accursed, excluded from grace etc.
"*On the contrary, I must – theologically – accept him [Israel] as [being] always the people of God* {my emphasis - dda}, thanks to the Messiah who has already come, and in expectation of the Messiah who is to come." END QUOTE.
Ellul found much illumination in Franz Rosenzweig's "The Star of Redemption" - and it should be noted that Rosenzweig saw clearly the fundamental commonalty between Jews and Christians, in terms of the way they understand the human relationship to God, and regarded it as the diametric opposite of the way in which Islam conceives of both the divine and the human; furthermore, Rosenzweig had no truck with Islam's claim to be an 'abrahamic' religion, he classified it - over against both Judaism *and* Christianity - as a purely and essentially 'pagan', that is, nonbiblical, system of belief.
Christians can free themselves of antisemitism, by thinking along the lines that people like Jacques Ellul have laid out. And one *does not* 'water down' or 'explain away' the core assumptions of the faith, in so doing.
As regards Islam - Bostom's anthology, 'The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism', shows sufficiently, I think, that an annihilating hatred of Jews qua Jews is coded into the deep structure of Islam.
It is interesting to note that abandoning antisemitism seems to be a precondition, or an accompanying part, of freeing oneself from Islam altogether: so, Magdi Cristiano Allam wrote 'Viva Israele', in praise of the Jewish state and its life-affirming values, *before* he dumped Islam and publicly became a Christian; Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Nonie Darwish, one becoming an atheist and one a Christian, both freed themselves of antisemitism at the same time; and we have just heard of the son of a Hamas leader who, having become a Christian, and in part because of the change of heart involved in so doing, spent *ten very dangerous years* as a secret apostate from Islam and as an undercover agent, helping Shin Bet thwart jihad terror raids against Israel.