Pakistan: Taliban behead 3 Sikhs for refusing to convert to Islam

Hi MBR - I'm glad I saw your post. Oh, so it's Firefox - well, that solves the mystery! It's only happened once, and I couldn't figure out what caused it! Thanks for your input, I'm glad I mentioned it.

As for the subject of this thread, I see the Barbarians are still "smiting at necks":

"Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, smite at their necks..." -- Qur'an 47:4

The Koran - the gift that keeps on giving. Into the 21st century.

On an earlier thread, Darcy complained of getting a black screen while on JW. I have noticed the same thing. It can be caused by setting, at least on Firefox 3.5.8, the zoom too large. Easily fixed by reducing the zoom, typically by keying control and minus.
.................

MBR and Darcy, I've had the same problem—sometimes it's a black page, sometimes its a case of text doubling and re-doubling until the page is black. it usually happens to me when I'm on a thread with a lot of comments—over 90 or so. It's also an issue if I go into the monthly archives. Coupled with your experience, it seems to be linked to how much data Firefox is trying to deal with at any given time.

My problems are intermittent—if I get a Firefox upgrade, I won't have any trouble for awhile, then it will start up again. Shirotoko_which I believe is Firefox specifically for the Mac—seems to be better (I'm a Mac user). Safari also works well—although I don't like that program as much over all. Not sure about Internet Explorer.

But yes—it's the web browser, and not a problem with Jihad Watch per se. Darned annoying, though.

The entire Indian sub-continent seems to be a place awash in sectarian violence.

I spoke to a Sri Lankan who witnessed Buddhist priests whip followers into a frenzy and massacre Hindu Tamils. Historically, Jains and Buddhists went through severe persecutions at the hands of Hindus. Muslims have also been murdered by Hindu fanatics.

Lest "someone" jump into this thread, take these remarks out-of-context, and claim that I am arguing "moral equivelancy" and impugn some evil intention (I am aware of Islamic violence, etc.), I'm just saying, that part of the world seems to be awash in sectarian violence, and not all of it seems to be connected to Islam.

"the gift that keeps on giving":

"Le Fruit Vert" by Eduardo Benito

or perhaps

Put that down!

http://www.artophile.com/Artwork/PublicDetail_20_93_LEFRUITVER.htm

"Historically, Jains and Buddhists went through severe persecutions at the hands of Hindus."

There is not a single trustworthy historical source to confirm your statement. There are a very few fancy and internally contradictory references to such persecutions in religiously inspired literature, but other accounts speak about Hindus being persecuted by Jains or Buddhists as well.
It is clear that most of the time Buddhists and Jains were treated rather well by Hindus and vice versa.
Buddhism existed side by side with Hinduism for centuries in India, but was completely destroyed there by invading Muslims. Muslim sources clearly confirm this.

The following is just one source about Hindu persecution of Buddhists in India:

http://rupeenews.com/2008/02/03/why-did-buddhism-disappear-from-the-south-asian-subcontinent-summary-of-brahmin-atrocities-that-destroyed-buddhism-in-the-subcontinent/

Buddhists have also persecuted Christians:

http://thepersecutiontimes.com/buddhists-drive-christians-from-home/2008/12/26/

The credible sources that document the different communities that have persecuted one another are too many ro include here, but a simple search can reveal hundreds of links.

I am no friend of Islam or its founder, but the fact is that many Indians were attracted to Islam because it actually offered an escape from the caste system and provided an improved position to woman (though not superior by our standards today).

Just one comment (from a Christian source) about current legislative attempts by Hindu nationalists to persecute Indian Christians:

http://www.persecution.org/suffering/newssummpopup.php?newscode=3796

Firebombed churches. Raped girls. Thousands of people stuck in government refugee camps. There is currently persecution of Christians by nationalist Indian Hindus:

http://gospelindiamission.tripod.com/id51.html

Jim Foster is an apologist. How can he compare to the atrocites commited by Mulims. There will allways be a incidents about x kills y or y injured z. So what? That doesn't compare to what muslims do on a daily basis. And, they do this on a worldwide basis. Look up thereligionofpeace.com

Do you see the difference?

but the fact is that many Indians were attracted to Islam because it actually offered an escape from the caste system

The above fact is wrong as what many people do not know is the muslims had their own caste system

In some parts of South Asia, the Muslims are divided as Ashrafs and Ajlafs. Ashrafs claim a superior status derived from their foreign ancestry. The non-Ashrafs are assumed to be converts from Hinduism, and are therefore drawn from the indigenous population. They, in turn, are divided into a number of occupational castes.

Sections of the ulema (scholars of Islamic jurisprudence) provide religious legitimacy to caste with the help of the concept of kafa'a. A classical example of scholarly declaration of the Muslim caste system is the Fatawa-i Jahandari, written by the fourteenth century Turkish scholar, Ziauddin Barani, a member of the court of Muhammad bin Tughlaq, of the Tughlaq dynasty of the Delhi Sultanate. Barani was known for his intensely casteist views, and regarded the Ashraf Muslims as racially superior to the Ajlaf Muslims. He divided the Muslims into grades and sub-grades. In his scheme, all high positions and privileges were to be a monopoly of the high born Turks, not the Indian Muslims

I find it strange that you are relying on a Muslim (Moin Ansari's) site dedicated to spreading disinformation and outrageous fabrications about Infidels. As an example, this worthy implies that 3 million Buddhists were killed in the Mahabharata war. Now, even I know that the Mahabharata is a pre-Buddhist epic about internecine war between Hindu princes.
The site also lovingly directs you to the World of Islam, also authoured by the very same Mr Ansari.

On the other hand, it is a historical fact that Buddhism in India, in slow decline with "the ocean of Hinduism already lapping all around it", was given a swift and fatal blow by Islam.

Nalanda University, a great centre of Buddhist learning in India was sacked by the Islamic fanatic Bakhtiyar Khilji. This event is seen by scholars as a late milestone in the decline of Buddhism in India. Khilji is said to have asked if there was a copy of the Koran at Nalanda before he sacked it. The Persian historian Minhaj-i-Siraj, in his chronicle the Tabaquat-I-Nasiri, reported that thousands of monks were burned alive and thousands beheaded as Khilji tried his best to uproot Buddhism and plant Islam by the sword; the burning of the library continued for several months and "smoke from the burning manuscripts hung for days like a dark pall over the low hills."

What are you - some sort of an apologist for Islam? Your device of planting moral equivalence red herrings has been tried often in this site by trolls.

Please get it straight that the random, sporadic acts of violence by small groups cannot be compared with the large scale, wanton, persistent and cruel doctrinaire Islamic violence on non-Muslims over centuries, across the spectrum of societies and around the Globe, mandated as a religious obligation by Koran and Hadith.

"Sikhs have suffered and continue to suffer from Muslim persecution, not only in South Asia, but also where they have settled in Europe."

So far as we are allowed this is true of the UK. About 6 years ago in a short live interview the BNP leader managed to slip in a claim/statement the a leading Sikh member of the ruling Labour party asked for gates/fences to protect Sikhs from muslim attacks.

This is probably why the Sikhs are quiet sympathizers of the BNP. Quiet because when the MSM find out they are targeted for "isalmophobia" as in this case,

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/feb/11/bnp-nonwhites-members-sikh-join&ei=CXmCS6CHNpP60wSmuZWoBA&sa=X&oi=nshc&resnum=1&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CAcQzgQoAA&usg=AFQjCNGTDsZ2XtCtCGbnJ4PCZYUSmnj38Q

As it happens the BBC report of these murders does not get round to mentioning islam or jizya until the end paragraph. The general line is to suggest it was a simple kidnapping. I would like to post a link but the story seems to have disappeared from the BBC site. Could be my lack of computer skills.

Khushi,

In regard to Jum Foster, I don't know about "christian soldier", but he is right in educating the people here about the perils of siding with Hindus.

They are a very cunning and notorious people....the inventor of caste system, the fact that only the brahmin can pray to God; they are probably a danger to us all.

Thank you Jim , I know it's a bit OT but at least the people now know.

Hope this helps

Yom

"...that the foresighted Muhd said that "there is no compulsion in religion".

lol! That's an abrogated verse, i.e. null and void, and you KNOW it, Yom. So on to your "taqiyya!"

Oh, and concerning this:

"Islam is superior in so many ways" - Yom

A BIG LOL! Islam is the most evil creed on the planet. There is NOTHING "superior" about rotten, diabolical, mass-murdering, Islam. You're a brainwashed zombie, following the psychopathic rantings of a hate-filled Warlord.

Mohamet is NOT a prophet. He's a self-proclaimed Fraud.

"allah" your pagan moon deity doesn't exist.

Mohamet "wrote" the Koran - not literally as the Fraud prophet was illiterate. Verbally. Others whom he duped did the writing.

And you are duped, Yom. You'll see the truth one day. And it ain't "allah!"

(Pssst. And btw, there are no 72 virgins. Mohamet made that up so fools would die for him more easily. But Shhhh! Don't tell anyone!)

You see whom the resident Muslim troll is siding with?

Says it all, doesn't it?

Yawn@apologist.

Infidel, had you seen my first post here, you would not call me an apologist.

I simply point out that India has a lot of persecution of one group against another.

Calling me an apologist does not alter that fact.

Slamdunk, no. I am someone who believes in looking at an issue from all sides of the coin. That's called intellectual curiosity.

Do you have a point in calling someone a troll and in couching your questions in an insulting tone?

The point of the discussion isn't in attacking posters, but in discussing the issue.

Jim Foster,
I think you always try to drag a thread away from its original content and intention.

Not true, Khushi.

The issue of "missionising" on that thread was not begun by me.

I believe in discussing an issue from all of its many sides.

Yom, I don't think that Hindus are a danger to anyone, except the fascists of the Hindu extremist nationalist party, of course.

As I pointed out earlier, there are horrifica atrocities that have been committed recently by Hindu nationalists against Christians.

This doesn't change the fact that Islam is the problem because it is international in its imperial quests.

Slamdunk wrote to Jim Foster:

What are you - some sort of an apologist for Islam? Your device of planting moral equivalence red herrings has been tried often in this site by trolls.

Please get it straight that the random, sporadic acts of violence by small groups cannot be compared with the large scale, wanton, persistent and cruel doctrinaire Islamic violence on non-Muslims over centuries, across the spectrum of societies and around the Globe, mandated as a religious obligation by Koran and Hadith.

But no, poor innocent Jim Foster who keeps getting bashed by the JW Meanie Brigade didn't mean to imply any Equivalence! Heavens, no! He only meant to point out that Hindus and Buddhists were (and continue to be?) violent too, so therefore...

...so therefore what, exactly? What use exactly does Jim Foster intend for his little Easter eggs planted into this room (not to mention a trail of others in at least three other threads)? What are we supposed to conclude from these factoids he has given us (factoids which other posters have disputed, incidentally)?

Either Foster's factoids are superfluous and have no effect on our primary and overarching realization that Islam is uniquely violently supremacist expansionist and therefore more dangerous than any other organization to our societies and to various parts of the world; or they are supposed to have some kind of effect on that primary and overarching realization of ours. And what effect would that be? The only reasonable inference to draw as to what effect that would be, would be some sort of mitigating effect.

As I said a few days ago when Foster first came on my radar, I'm still not sure he's a conscious apologist; he could be so deformed by PC MC that he sincerely cannot help his reflexive spasms of Equivalence in his anxiety to make sure the Anti-Islam Movement does not career down the slippery slope to lynching, rounding up, ethnically cleansing, and genociding all those lovely nice Muslims whom his handful of personal Muslim acquaintances have convinced him must be the harmless majority. However, the cumulative effect of Fosterisms, with this thread being the latest, has me now leaning toward the Apologist theory.

"However, the cumulative effect of Fosterisms, with this thread being the latest, has me now leaning toward the Apologist theory."

Islamic Constitution (the Manual of HATE also known as Kouran) condones violence against innocent and helpless infidel victims in any form a Muslim desires. More than 90% of the time they comply to Mohds dictates (read the Kauran for facts), they usually chop of the helpless victims heads and send it to either family members or sometimes to community members.

That has been repeated since Mohd. formed an army (read the Islamic history written by them for facts).

When there are clashes between the Christians and Hindus/Jews or what have you they are politically or factionally motivated. Normally there are laws against such things in any civilized country. However, the Islamic laws do not give protection to infidels in Islamic countries. I don't know how India works, however, it is a very highly populated country with multitude of religions/factional or what have you problems. I can imagine there are religious minorities living in some kind of harmony more often than they clash. I can't imagine that will ever going to get perfect soon - we tried that haven' we. We have, in my opinion, problem with Islam. MoSlums are started to kill Americans since 9/11, that is a real nasty war of Ideology - Islam V US! I can't figure how we ever going to come out of it unless there is a serious backlash against them. I am not in the favor of that.

"Jim Foster is another Islamist masquerading as an infidel trying to show how every religion has fanatics like the Taliban. Unfortunately, for him, he gave his identity away by posting a rupeenews link, which is a very popular Indian hate site originating from Pakistan & wildly popular among Pakistanis. I am glad to see that JW readers are not fooled by his taqiyya!"

No, we're not.

Jim Foolster is a creep, and hopefully he won't be here for long.

"It's good to see that very few are even allowing him to blather on unchallenged here, and based on his discourse so far, I expect a relatively short stay for him, at least under his current moniker.

Stay on him." - awake

And, "A total and complete jackass" - champ

And MANY other negative comments about Jim Foolster.

Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish.

That's a great comment about the Foolster, Hesp. Bravo.

I agree, Awake.

Jim will on the one hand state how evil islam is, but then on the other he will make apologies for islam. Seems his left hand doesn't always know what his right hand is doing, eh?

What kind of tactic is this? A form of taqiyya? Maybe!

Yes, we need to stay on him ....

Agreed, Darcy! :)

And did you read Jim's comment stating he wanted Hesp and I to "go to hell"? Wow, eh?

He has become very aggressive and thug-like, but not only telling me to "go to hell", but by demanding that I stop mentioning his name. He will makes comments like, "this ends here and now", etc.

Hmm, his aggressive and thug-like demands sound very familiar.

He also told another poster, Christian Soldier, to go somewhere else. How rude.

Now he's telling me and Hesp to "go to hell" ...again, how rude.

What do you make of those comments, Darcy?

Jim's cover has been blown ....

This explains his tantrums, of late.

And yes, darcy, look who is siding with Jim the apologist for islam.

Very telling, indeed.

"However, the cumulative effect of Fosterisms, with this thread being the latest, has me now leaning toward the Apologist theory."

Me, too!

Your entire comment was spot on, and I wish to echo darcy ...Bravo!

"And did you read Jim's comment stating he wanted Hesp and I to "go to hell"? Wow, eh?"

No, I missed that. Good God, the Bastard.

"...but by demanding that I stop mentioning his name." - champ

Whaaaaat?! Here's his name: Jim FOOLSTER

"Now he's telling me and Hesp to "go to hell" ...again, how rude." - champ

Unbelievable. JERK! And as you know, he's also insulted me.

"What do you make of those comments, Darcy?" - champ

What do I make of them? Here's what: He needs to be banished. But, that's not my decision. How dare he insult respected long-time posters on this site. That's not right. He is a troll - his real name is probably "Mohamed Hussein al-Muhammed," - know what I mean?

Something's got to give concerning the Foolster.

I do not know the origins of Sikhism but I attended a lecture when a leading historian said they started as a pacifist sect. It was aggression and violence they suffered at the hands of muslims that turned them into warriors.

In the UK they do go in for the occasional honour killing but they are generally trusted and have a good reputation for business integrity. Unlike muslims...............

BTW I also read somewhere that if a Sikh city fell to muslims all the women committed suicide to avoid the shame of becoming war booty.

Darcy ...

Yeah, Jim made this invective and evil comment to Hesp and I at 9:52 on the thread I've posted below his comment:

"Chimp/chump, you and Desperate-turdo can both take your tag harassment shtick and go to hell."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/malaysian-women-say-caning-for-adultery-was-good-for-them.html#comments

"know what I mean?"

Yes! ...I am beginning to wonder if he's a mohammedan, too; cleverly disguished as a hater of islam. As you've noticed, on the one hand he will show disdain for islam, but on the other will apologize for it! I mean ...HUH?! Only a "FOOLSTER" mohammedan would resort to such tactics.

Don't you think? Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm really beginning to wonder .....

Oh my gosh!! ...sorry Foolster41! And of course we will use a different term :)

"I disagree with a couple of posters from another thread who implied that this growing distrust of Jim Foster must be a kind of group-think lynch mob mentality."

O, I missed that accusation. Do you recall which thread?

And I would most definitely disagree with that accusation as well! It all but implies that there is some kind of evil conspiracy to smear Jim's *good name* without any just cause, and that simply isn't true.

In fact, any growing distrust of Jim Foster only proves that more people have become more aware of what he is about. And by all manner of facts, it does appear that he is one to keep an eye on.

Please, if you have that thread, then I would certainly like to read it. Thank you.

Exactly champ, it can show the health of a community. But it's become such a common trope in PC MC culture -- repeated a million times in our pop culture TV shows and movies, among other places -- of the evil bigoted community (invariably white and Western and usually Christian, of course) whose members "scapegoat" an innocent person leading to his tragic treatment at their hands.

About the "mob mentality" comment directed at me, as I recall, the poster(s) I was referring to didn't come out and say it directly, but to me he (or they) implied it. There have been so many threads I can't remember the title, but it was the one where I posted Foster's claim that Islamic "thought and law" does not condone rape, and then Kinana of Khaybar challenged him on it, and finally after pulling teeth, Foster "admitted" he was "wrong".

Yeah, Sikhism arose as a pacifist religion, but the continued aggression & violence caused by the the Muslim rulers of India (Mughals) made the Sikhs to take up arms & defend themselves.

Sikhism is based on the teachings of 10 successive Gurus (teachers) and when their 4th Guru was harassed by Mughals, Sikhs began arming themselves. When the Mughals tried to forcefully convert the Hindus of Kashmir, they approached the 9th Guru of Sikhs & pleaded with him to help them. When this Guru stood up for the Hindus, he was captured & tortured until he would accept Islam. When he refused, he was beheaded.

Read more about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Tegh_Bahadur#Martyrdom

Having been involved with exchanges involving Jim Foster starting with his first post on JW and following the controversy he has generated since then, I have a different take on him. Jim identified himself early on as being Jewish, and his argument style of looking at all possible sides of a story is reminiscent of the kind of dithering one commonly sees among the intellectual Jewish Left, where obsession with minutiae collected without accompanying interpretative metrics often results in the obscuration of the bigger picture, resulting in moral paralysis. Hesperado detected this early on in Jim's propensity to use certain Leftist buzz words and ascribed it to the inadvertent and unconsciously left fingerprints of a Leftist dissembler purposely engaged in trying to diffuse the anti-jihad efforts of this site. You may be right, Hesp. But the reasons don't really matter. It's the results that count.

The good news about Jim's posts, notwithstanding the gratuitous trading of insults he engages in, is that they have prompted some really great rebuttal responses, particularly in regard to India, and these have been very educational. The bad news, for him, is that his defensiveness, argumentativeness, and failure to refrain from getting involved in flame wars have alienated numerous posters here, so that now he finds himself in a very deep hole. Being endorsed by Yom has not helped his case, and Jim would be entitled to regarding such endorsement as being akin to a flower of respect tossed into the grave he dug for himself and then climbed into.

For what it's worth, and at the risk of drawing fire from those with whom he has been fighting, I would not advocate banning Jim Foster, except of course in case of continued abusive remarks to posters here. Instead, I would urge him to be respectful of the culture and posters here and, when the appropriate opportunities arise, expand on the theme I have alluded to above, namely, that of the perspective of jihad as seen from inside the contemporary American Jewish community. He will, of course, know about the overwhelmingly pro-Israel sentiments of this site, as well as the great respect in which both Pamela Geller and David Horowitz are held.

Jim Foster says

Historically, Jains and Buddhists went through severe persecutions at the hands of Hindus.

This is a lie, specifically spread by Islamic apologists to establish moral equivalency with Islamic persecution. All such literature can be carefully traced back to a muslim or an apologist. The link you gave is by one 'Moin Ansari' - a muslim.

The article is so ridiculous that it cites Mahabharata, a mythological text of Hindus, as historical fact. I won't even start to tear that article apart. Not worth the effort.

Whenever you see such information, plz try to read other material by the same author. You will see the biased agenda clearly.

Muslims have also been murdered by Hindu fanatics.

Almost always in response to Islamic aggression.

I am no friend of Islam or its founder, but the fact is that many Indians were attracted to Islam because it actually offered an escape from the caste system and provided an improved position to woman (though not superior by our standards today).

As already explained by Shiv, caste system is equally present in Indian muslims. A lower caste hindu converting to Islam doesnot suddenly attain a high social status, as Islamic sources like to portray.

Islam provided an improved position to women? I don't think, that statement even needs a response on this site :)

BlueRaven, the mob violence against the Hindu Tamil by Tibetan Buddhists was quite real, and is well-documented. You may not like that it happened, but it did.

AJ, do the Christians who were recently murdered in Orissa think it's a lie?

http://www.gfa.org/persecution/orissa/

Anyway, before engaging in insults and getting personal, take a look at ALL my posts. I'll repeat one of them again:

The thugs who imposed the jizya against non-Muslims under Taliban control, and who then attempted to force these men to submit to Islam, then killing them when they refused, were CLEARLY following Muhammed's teachings in the Quran (particularly the notorious ninth surah) and in the Hadith, where the requirements and conditions for paying jizya, etc. and the punishments for failure to pay, are clearly spelled out in great detail.

On the other hand, it is also a fact that there is current (and historic) persecution of non-Hindus by Hindus on the Indian sub-continent:

http://www.gfa.org/persecution/orissa/

It would take a huge dose of myopic cynicism to deny the religious nature of the persecution the Christians of Orissa went through not two years ago, and the suffering they are still undergoing.

What's the difference between the incidents in Orisaa and the atrocity that is happening under Taliban rule? The difference is the Muslims who commit these crimes are following the fundamental dictates of traditional Islamic texts, the Quran and the Hadith. The Hindus do not have a religious foundation for THEIR persecution of the Orissa Christians, or for others who have suffered under extremist Hindu intolerance currently or in the past. The Hindu persecution of the lower castes, and of the untouchable harijan in particular, IS based in Hindu religious texts. The cummulative effect of the caste system has been pretty horrific and continues to bring great suffering to its victims.

That being said, I thought it crucial to point out that what these criminal Talibanis are doing to their victims is fundamentally based on Islam's texts, whereas the Hindu nationalists' crimes against their victims (except for those who suffer under the caste system) are NOT based on religious texts.

Therein lies the difference.

Also, the Islamic threat is international with strong imperialist ambitions, while the extremist nationalist Hindu threat is primarily localized.

AJ, do the Christians who were recently murdered in Orissa think it's a lie?

http://www.gfa.org/persecution/orissa/

Anyway, before engaging in insults and getting personal, take a look at ALL my posts. I'll repeat one of them again:

The thugs who imposed the jizya against non-Muslims under Taliban control, and who then attempted to force these men to submit to Islam, then killing them when they refused, were CLEARLY following Muhammed's teachings in the Quran (particularly the notorious ninth surah) and in the Hadith, where the requirements and conditions for paying jizya, etc. and the punishments for failure to pay, are clearly spelled out in great detail.

On the other hand, it is also a fact that there is current (and historic) persecution of non-Hindus by Hindus on the Indian sub-continent:

http://www.gfa.org/persecution/orissa/

It would take a huge dose of myopic cynicism to deny the religious nature of the persecution the Christians of Orissa went through not two years ago, and the suffering they are still undergoing.

What's the difference between the incidents in Orisaa and the atrocity that is happening under Taliban rule? The difference is the Muslims who commit these crimes are following the fundamental dictates of traditional Islamic texts, the Quran and the Hadith. The Hindus do not have a religious foundation for THEIR persecution of the Orissa Christians, or for others who have suffered under extremist Hindu intolerance currently or in the past. The Hindu persecution of the lower castes, and of the untouchable harijan in particular, IS based in Hindu religious texts. The cummulative effect of the caste system has been pretty horrific and continues to bring great suffering to its victims.

That being said, I thought it crucial to point out that what these criminal Talibanis are doing to their victims is fundamentally based on Islam's texts, whereas the Hindu nationalists' crimes against their victims (except for those who suffer under the caste system) are NOT based on religious texts.

Therein lies the difference.

Also, the Islamic threat is international with strong imperialist ambitions, while the extremist nationalist Hindu threat is primarily localized.

OOOPs, I meant to type "Therevadan Buddhists."

The reference and links to the Tamil story in Sri Lanka and the violence against them are too numerous to cite; but here is a recent one about mob violence led by Buddhists against Christians there.

Doubt it? Google this issue yourself.

OK ...thanks for the reply, Hesp.

Champ,

Hesperado claimed that a poster here accused some Jihad Watch posters of having a "group-think lynch mob mentality" with regard to the poster Jim Foster. I believe Hesperado is referring to my comment, in the recent thread about the caning of Malaysian women. You can check that thread to find the full context. Here is the relevant part of my actual statement to Jim from that thread:

"Jim Foster
....It seems to me that, once again, some posters are reading far too much into your statements, projecting all kinds of things onto you and your words. It seems that a kind of group-think paranoia sets in here among some commenters from time to time, though I am glad to see that some posters have not succumbed to it."

Though I didn't say so directly, I was referring primarily to Hesperado, but also to a few others who were claiming that Jim was a Leftist, apologist for Islam, etc. Here's how Hesperado characterized my comment to you:

"I disagree with a couple of posters from another thread who implied that this growing distrust of Jim Foster must be a kind of group-think lynch mob mentality. It could be; but must it be? What are the casuistic criteria by which one would accurately adjudge it so?

That attitude is itself PC MC -- the attitude that thinks that all community agreements that lead to the criticism and/or condemnation of either an outsider or a member, must always be symptoms of group-think lynch mob mentality.

If that were the case, then communities could never protect themselves from those who seek to undermine their goals -- unless those demurrers believe that there are no such people who exist out there who would want to chip away at JW and undermine it any which way they can?"

In his later post, in response to you, he builds upon this theme:

"Exactly champ, it can show the health of a community. But it's become such a common trope in PC MC culture -- repeated a million times in our pop culture TV shows and movies, among other places -- of the evil bigoted community (invariably white and Western and usually Christian, of course) whose members "scapegoat" an innocent person leading to his tragic treatment at their hands.

About the "mob mentality" comment directed at me, as I recall, the poster(s) I was referring to didn't come out and say it directly, but to me he (or they) implied it. There have been so many threads I can't remember the title, but it was the one where I posted Foster's claim that Islamic "thought and law" does not condone rape, and then Kinana of Khaybar challenged him on it, and finally after pulling teeth, Foster "admitted" he was "wrong"."

Note how in both of these posts Hesperado launches into rich interpretation, adding elements that weren't there in my original statement, introducing a different frame of reference, suggesting that my claims go far beyond where I actually put them, and of course using it as an "example" from which to expound on his ideology about PC MC, Leftism, etc.

If you go back to that thread, you will see how Jim, showing good character in my view, actually owned up to his mistake in frank and clear terms. I thought we could leave that thread with a positive outcome, but unfortunately Hesperado came back and belittled Jim's second correction and clarification.

Nobody likes to see their views misrepresented. It takes a great deal of time and effort to go back and try to undo all the distortions, confabulations, and inaccuracies. This is the main reason why, several months back, I refused to respond to Hesperado. I simply do not have the time--nor do most posters--to post a comment and then have to post several more to try and correct Hesperado's subsequent misrepresentations of my views. That's not why I come here to comment a JW. (Of course, I don't have to correct him, but naturally, like anyone else, I don't like to see my views misrepresented). What Hesperado is doing to Jim now is not much different from what's he done with my posts and with Robert Spencer's in the past, in terms of misrepresentation.

AJ, though I am aware that there were plenty of examples of Islam reinforcing Arab chauvinism, I can't necessarily agree that those aspects of the caste system as they might be practiced by Indian Muslims can be because of Islam, but rather they are an accretion from Hindu society despite Islam.

I knew two Indian Jewish families on the kibbutz where I lived in Israel, and they seemed to incorporate elements of the caste system in how they related to each other. My friend, the son of a wealthy Jewish plantation owner from Cochin, referred to the dark Indian Jew as a "chokra" and would not even look at him, let alone speak to him. Indian Jews also have somewhat of a caste system, as exhibited among the so-called white Jews of Cochin,who are descended from ancient Jewish immigrants, their dark-skinned Jewish neighbors descended from Dravidian converts, and the more recent Mizrachi Jewish immigrants from Iraq. Members of each community maintained separate synagogues,would not eat one another's food, did not intermarry, and stayed away from one another. This is against Judaism's teachings.

Likewise, Indian Muslims' adoption of caste system elements are contrary to Islam, no matter what other negative we can say Islam is guilty of, having a caste system passed from generation to generation and which is inescapable is not one of them.

Does Islam have a chauvinistic legal system against non-believers? A hundred times YES! But a perpetual caste system passed from generation to generation is not in accord with Islam's teachings.

As regards the legal status of women under Islam and Hinduism, I stated clearly that Muslim women have an inferior status if you compare their condition to that of Western women today. It remains a fact that their status was better than that of Hindu women at the same time.

Those are just facts. Stating them doesn't make me an "Islamist enabler" as some posters stated.

Loner, hi. Thank you. My point in stating that India is a place where there is a lot of ethnic and religious violence was NOT meant to downplay the horrific crime committed against the Sikh martyrs.

I believe my later posts clarified what the issue is.

The difference is indeed as you state it. The difference is that Hindu violence is usually a reaction to some real or perceived threat and has no basis in Hindu scripture, WHILE the Muslim violence can be directly "justified" by its perpetrators to a vast wealth of literature available in the Quran and hadith.

Regards

Kinana, hello. I just read your posting and I thank you for it.

You said it better than I possibly could.

Concerning all the negativity, libel, character assassination, vengeance and outright lies we are witnessing on this thread, I wish to reiterate than I am not going to get involved in responding in an equally ugly fashion, but will leave it alone and do what I think is right.

Yes. I have done some research since yesterday and I am aware that Robert Spencer and others have also been subjected to persecution from certain parties.

I trust I can find people here who will discuss the issues ethically and intelligently without resorting to further name calling, libel, misrepresentation, etc.

Thanks again.

Regards.

Slothy, thanks for the link on Sikhism. There is so much to learn. Regards.

Hi, Kinana of Khaybar,

Thank you for writing and for clarifying my query; and in all honesty, I was not aware of any discourse between you and Hesp in the past, until now.

And I have never paid much attention to Jim Foster, even though reportedly he's been on JW for some time now; not until about about two days ago did he ever hit my radar. And at this point, I also think it very important to note that Hesp was NOT the poster that brought Jim to my attention, but it was Jim himself.

Specifically, there was a prior thread -- two days ago, I think -- where a rather heated exchange between he and a few other posters had caught my attention; and upon reading through those exchanges, I quickly realized that Jim had started the mud slide on that thread (also, today I read another thread where Jim was creating even MORE drama, so now I am beginning to see a pattern?)

Other posters, besides Hesp, started accusing Jim of being an apologist for islam -- and with good reason. But rather than Jim doing the mature thing by exploring their concerns and defending his position(s), Jim would instead throw tantrums and call people nasty names, or tell them to "go to hell", as he did with me, etc, completely dismissing their concerns.

So, in Jim's case he making some very contradictory comments that many posters, besides Hesp, had noticed and taken Jim to task on; and rather than Jim owning up to these glaring contradictions, and answering for them appropriately, he would instead viciously go on the attack. I certainly hope this style of exchange will end.

Anyway, thank you again for writing, and hopefully we can all learn from this experience.

Take care :)

Since you apparently have a very difficult time with reading comprehension, allow me to re-post what I postered earlier and which you are again misrepresenting. Please pay close attention this time.

"The thugs who imposed the jizya against non-Muslims under Taliban control, and who then attempted to force these men to submit to Islam, then killing them when they refused, were CLEARLY following Muhammed's teachings in the Quran (particularly the notorious ninth surah) and in the Hadith, where the requirements and conditions for paying jizya, etc. and the punishments for failure to pay, are clearly spelled out in great detail.

On the other hand, it is also a fact that there is current (and historic) persecution of non-Hindus by Hindus on the Indian sub-continent:

http://www.gfa.org/persecution/orissa/

It would take a huge dose of myopic cynicism to deny the religious nature of the persecution the Christians of Orissa went through not two years ago, and the suffering they are still undergoing.

What's the difference between the incidents in Orisaa and the atrocity that is happening under Taliban rule? The difference is the Muslims who commit these crimes are following the fundamental dictates of traditional Islamic texts, the Quran and the Hadith. The Hindus do not have a religious foundation for THEIR persecution of the Orissa Christians, or for others who have suffered under extremist Hindu intolerance currently or in the past. The Hindu persecution of the lower castes, and of the untouchable harijan in particular, IS based in Hindu religious texts. The cummulative effect of the caste system has been pretty horrific and continues to bring great suffering to its victims.

That being said, I thought it crucial to point out that what these criminal Talibanis are doing to their victims is fundamentally based on Islam's texts, whereas the Hindu nationalists' crimes against their victims (except for those who suffer under the caste system) are NOT based on religious texts.

Therein lies the difference.

Also, the Islamic threat is international with strong imperialist ambitions, while the extremist nationalist Hindu threat is primarily localized."

Thanks mr. Foster,i am glad that you get the difference,but there are many more who have been duped into beleiving that hindus are bigots thanks to the relentless peddling of half truths.The truth is that hinduism is not a well defined religion at all, let alone an organised religion we don't have religious leaders even at the local level,there is no congregational worship,no single greatest god or prophet,even the term that we use to identify our faith "hindu" is a misnomer,a persian nomenclature for the people of the geographical entity of "hind":the indian subcontinent.That we are known as a single religion is all due to the foriegn invaders,we are unbashed polytheists and idolators,"hindus" of different ethnicities have different prime deities and therefore don't usually mix much,the endemic caste sytem has alienated large parts of the demographic from each other,psephologists here openly say that the largest voting bloc in india are actually the "minorities" i.e. the muslims because they vote en bloc,we are hardwired for slavery and our religion is to blame for this,we desperately need an organised religion to survive the onslaught of islam,at the moment christianity seems to be the only answer for us,therefore i strongly urge all the missionries and evangelists to keep up the good work,if we survive islam,then those who menace them today will hail them as martyrs in the future.

'The Hindus do not have a religious foundation for THEIR persecution of the Orissa Christians.....'

No. We do not have books or scriptures goading us to murder non-Hindus. And I am so glad I don't belong to a religion like that, meaning islam.

The Christians tribals in Orissa faced violence from Hindu tribals, after an 84-year Hindu saint Swami Laxmananand Saraswati was murdered by Christian tribals in his home.

Hindu-India is on the whole very comfortable with non-Hindu India.
The percentage of Hindus in India is constantly falling whereas that of non-Hindus is constantly rising.
This wouldn't happen if there was constant persecution of minorities of the kind we see in islamic lands.
In fact, some muslim political leaders boldly state that within a decade they (muslims) will rule India.

'Hindu politicians tend to be just as much dhimmis as Western politicians,'

That's so true, Hesperado, which is a shame.
There is hardly anyone on India's political scene who can and will call a spade a spade.
Lot of PC rubbish going on here.

"Can anyone tell me what I took out of context?"

You didn't take anything out of context, Awake.

In fact ....

In my response to Kinana of Khaybar, you definitely came to mind as one of the other posters presenting Jim with solid questions, but I did not mention your name because KofK seemed intend on focusing on Hesp as the engine behind any discourse over Jim; but of course Help is not the only one.

So yes, I also noted Jim's rather rude dismissal of your legitimate question, and that it was never answered appropriapetly, but instead you were met with defensiveness, and Jim resorted to silly sarcasm. Also, a couple of evenings ago I had simply asked Jim if he was a male or a female (as posters have asked of me on occasion), and I was met with a rather shocking response, because he rudely told me to "go to hell"! So I thought that response was really over the top, too.

Anyway, you are a very formidable poster as well, with really sharp insights, so perhaps Jim got a little flustered by your spot on observations -- which might explain his response, in part (?).

Bottom line, Jim still needs to answer your questions!

Why haven't you, Jim?

I see you are fond of multiple postings of your tendentious, ill-researched and misleading comments, but you are upset if someone points out flaws in your faulty worldview.

I will nonetheless give short responses only on the "persecution" of Christians in Orissa, which seems to have agitated you no end and on the Caste system, which has grossly offended your delicate sensibilities.

1. On Orissa: The "Hindus" in question here are the ancient Kondh/Gond tribals (yes, after whom Gondwana is named), followers of animism, protesting against the encroachment of their forest land and government-given privileges by a group of backward caste Christians (Panas) a far more educated and well-off people.

"The Kondhs don't have a hope in hell, as all the key politicos in their region,including the MP are Pana Christians. The Kondhs rioted in helpless fury when an 84 year old Hindu Swamy, who had worked among them for 40 years was murdered by local group of Pana Naxalites (Maoists). This man had set up schools in far flung areas, helped in large scale afforestation and weaned them away from alcohol to which they had become addicted but most importantly guided the tribals in fighting the takeover of their lands by the greedy Govt/Industrial combine as well as by the savvy Panas. He had become too troublesome for the Industry and the liquor barons as well as Panas. Hopefully this information will help provide a more balanced perspective on what happened in Orissa in 2008, which cannot by any stretch, even of your feverish imagination, be called "persecution".

2. Caste: I am summarising information from Wiki here.

Exclusive communities is a widespread social phenomenon in India, extending from the tribal societies to numerous occupational groups. The word for this is Jati.

There is also a theoretical concept of the Brahmins (under 10% of the population) called "Varna", which classifies the society into the well-known 4 groups. The British introduced these theoretical Varna categories as Caste to classify ALL Hindus in the population census, beginning 1901, thus propagating a myth of a static, Caste-riven Hindu society.

As regards untouchability, I quote from the same article:
"It is, however, rather interesting that people of all Jatis across the spectrum, from the so-called upper castes to the lowest of castes, including the Untouchables, tended to avoid intermarriage, sharing of food and drinks, or even close social interaction with a Jati other than their own. Indeed, most of the Jati castes did not see themselves as socially inferior to the others in any way. If at all, it was the other way round and most of them had folk narratives, traditions, myths and legends to bolster their sense of identity and cultural uniqueness."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste - one has to scroll down to "India"

I earnestly hope you will receive this information in the same generous, forgiving spirit of inquiry which evidently informs all your actions here. Thank you.

hi champ,

I don't have any time right now even to read through this thread let alone the other "Foster threads" -- it might be several hours before I can do so, and sometimes Internet discussion forums move at the speed of light, so I may miss the ball by then. Thanks for your other comments above.

Just one point for now -- you wrote:

"His [Foster's] attitude suggests to me, anyway, that he doesn't care about his own stated contradictions! On that thread he concludes with, "Oh well", as if exempting himself from the need to address and answer legitimate questions posed to him only days ago. No, these important questions should not simply go away; especially since islamic supremacy is the single most important issue of our day."

You're right, I believe. He demonstrated the same attitude the first time Kinana of Khaybar challenged him. If Kinana had not persisted and reformulated the challenge and called him on his initial non-answer, we might never know that Foster suddenly changed his mind about his claim that "Islamic thought and law" do not allow for rape. And your exchange with awake above points to the importance and pertinence of holding Foster's feet to the fire. I think Kinana of Khaybar is wrong in his response to you about me above. The problems and faults he outlines, where some fellow posters can be

1) unresponsive,

2) rude

3) take one's statements out of context,

4) misunderstand what one has said and then build red herrings out of that --

all of this that Kinana is alluding to is subject to relative subjective opinion (such that Kinana thinks I'm the one doing these, and not my interlocutors, whereas it is clear to me that the reverse is the case). In fact, in my estimation, Foster has been the main perpetrator of these dialogical sins. And just to show that I'm not partisan about this, I also found the poster Christian Soldier to indulge at least three of the above four (Christian Soldier was far less rude than Foster, though in his needless irascibility built on misinterpreting what I said, CS tended to demonstrate an irked pique where none was called for): With Christian Soldier, however, I interpret him in good faith as just being a good man who's stubborn as a mule and not very well versed in intellectual debate. With Foster, on the other hand, it seems that a less generous interpretation is called for, reflecting calculated tactics in his activity on these threads toward Apologetic ends of one sort (Leftist) or another (Islamic).

"With Foster, on the other hand, it seems that a less generous interpretation is called for, reflecting calculated tactics in his activity on these threads toward Apologetic ends of one sort (Leftist) or another (Islamic)."

Hi Hesp,

Thanks for writing. I agree with your entire comment, and in particular your above statement; and I agree that further watchfulness is necessary where Jim is concerned.

He raised some red flags with several poster recently -- not just with you, me, and awake -- but with quite a few other posters, too. And notice that Jim is playing MrInnocent, now, and he's also playing the victim card -- AND, he's presenting himself quite differently than before. Jim is being extra careful not to show any apologia for islam, like he did before being confronted.

But sooner or later he will raise a few more red flags, and then the cycle of questions, confusion and drama will once again continue.

Oh joy ....

The Torquemada Taliban apparently has too much free time on its hands.

I might suggest gainful employment somewhere.

At least think about it.

Regards

I think the Torquemada Taliban has too much free time on its hands.

I suggest finding some sort of gainful employment. Somewhere. Anywhere.

At least give it some thought.

With years of having persecuted the founder of this site under his belt, the mental midget is on a roll.

Thank you for your enlightening rendition of events in Orissa.

You opened in such a delightfully polite fashion, and I'm sure anyone would be pleased to be addressed in such a manner.

Thank you for informing me that the caste system is something wonderful and that the Christians murdered in Orissa were guilty and those who murdered them are some how not to blame.

You are not one to talk about how much time is spent on JW, and btw, I do work.

Apparently you do not.

Too busy hating Christians, I see.

O, and too busy making friends on JW, too, lol.

Your comments are not very Jew-like, Jim. Tsk, tsk!

Yesterday you had scolded another poster for not being very Christ-like, so whatever.

I suggest you drop everything that you're doing, run to the store, and purchase a very large mirror for yourself.

Hi, Champ! You rock! You are so fantastic. Thanks for all the wonderful insights!

I hope you have a great day tomorrow.

Regards

Hi, Hesperado! You da man! Without your great and wonderful insights, why, I'd know absolutely nothing.

It's great how you stay on-target and make the threads always what they are intended to be about.

I'm sure, by following your example, I'll become the greatest person I can be. :)

Again, guy, thanks for everything. Did I mention that you rock?

Regards,

Jimmy

Darcy.

Jimbo is making fun of me here because I've been in the cheering-section for his detractors.
His ego is so delicate that he'll react with sarcastic venom, even at comments not directed toward him.

We'll just have to hope he makes progress in his therapy. Meanwhile:

HOW CAN WE MISS HIM IF HE WON'T GO AWAY?

"I realize that darcy, champ, and others have become convinced that Foster is a Muslim apologist, but I still maintain it is entirely possible that he's a Leftist apologist for Muslims" ....

Hi, Hesp,

Actually, at this point I am more inclined to agree with you, so I am not entirely convinced that he is in fact a true muslim apologist -- but more that he sends mixed messages.

On the one hand he will express strong disdain for islam, but on the other appear sympathetic to islam by diverting attention AWAY from muslims & islam by making statements, like, "Yeah, but look how bad so-in-so is", etc.

I haven't read all of his comments, certainly, but to date these are my impressions of him.

Hi, Kinana of Khaybar,

Thank you for writing, and I completely agree with your entire post; and in particular, the need for confronting accuracy rather than identity. Good point.

Take care :)

Wow, Dary! You rock! You are so fantastic.

It's amazing how much I am learning from you!

I love it how you come in here, day-after-day, and try to create more and more animosity by misquoting, misidentifying, and just plain harp on old issues.

You're amazing!

Did I mention just how much you rock!

Wow, Hesperado! You rock! You are so fantastic.

It's amazing how much I am learning from you!

I love it how you come in here, day-after-day, and try to create more and more animosity by misquoting, misidentifying, and just plain harp on old issues.

You're amazing!

Did I mention just how much you rock!

Wow, George! You rock! You are so fantastic.

It's amazing how much I am learning from you!

I love it how you come in here, day-after-day, and try to create more and more animosity by misquoting, misidentifying, and just plain harp on old issues.

You're amazing!

Did I mention just how much you rock!

Champ, hello. And thank you!

Let's move away from taking shots at one another.

I hope we can forgive each other and move on.

The task at hand is to confront Islamic supremacism and learn more about it to combat it effectively.

I don't want us confronting each other.

If we have questions about accuracy or veracity, let's all just be civil about it, ask questions, not interject or project, and leave it at that.

I made mistakes; but I don't see the need to extend my energy day after day apologizing for them or in defending myself against personal attacks.

Thank you and God bless.

Kinana, thanks for the truely insightful post.

I hope all who read it can take heart and move along.

Regards

You're an asshole. An utter and complete asshole.

I hope you are gotten rid of, you creep.

You need help. Please, go to the nearest Mental Hospital and get help. You're a vicious asshole.

I also speak for champ, Hesp, George, and others. You're a dick.

Read the above posts from JF - can someone rid us of him, or what? Obviously, he's a psycho.

"Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan shot 46 fellow soldiers and security guards and murdered 13 in the worst act of Islamic Terrorism on U.S. soil since 9/11."

I believe Dr. Hasan counseled Jim Foster.

JF is as much a psycho as his doctor.

Can no one rid us of this troublesome vicious psycho, JF?

I'm all for that, Jim, provided you are being sincere. But your rudeness and sarcasm to other posters completely eclipses that effort, so it appears that you are being disengenuous. Which is it?

You are fantastic, Hesperado!

You utterly rock!

God bless.

Love,

Jimmy

You are fantastic, Champ!

You utterly rock!

God bless.

Love,

Jimmy

You are fantastic, George!

You utterly rock!

God bless.

Love,

Jimmy

You are fantastic, Darcy!

You utterly rock!

God bless.

Love,

Jimmy

"The people I'm cheering-on have the courage to confront a bully. I find that easy to admire.

Thinking about it, you have to conclude that folks who are active on a site like Jihad Watch are not naturally well-disposed to bullies--islam being the ultimate world-bully of our time. You may have done well to consider that before making your tempestuous entrance."

George, great comment. So right. Bullies must indeed be confronted. And your analogy to Islam being the world-bully - bravo. So right.

P.S. Did you see that nutcase up there with the duplicate sarcastic posts? Sheesh. As I said - mental.

You stated:

"Aside from my first post about Jim Foster way back, in which I dispassionately in the third person wrote that I did not believe his personal anecdote about Christian colleagues at a school where he worked saying extremely bigoted things to him, I have not once insulted him or have been rude to him."

Yes, Hesp ...

I am providing Jim's comment, below, which led to your subsequent disbelief

------------------------------------------------------------
OKAY. I am Jewish and once worked in a Southern city. These were a few things that happened to me in one school:

Bible tracts were left in my mailbox on a regular basis.

Fellow teachers regularly began conversations mentioning that non-believers would go to hell upon death.

Another teacher walked by me and said, loudly, "You know those Israelis, they are God's chosen people, but they reject their messiah, so God will reject them unless they repent."

If I mentioned during a lunch conversation that a relative had sent me money on my birthday, I got remarks like "Well, she must be a rich Jew."

A coworker stated "Your Torah means absolutely nothing if you don't have Jesus."

Things finally came to a head, so to speak, when the community liason officer walked by me and said "Heil Hitler!" and I filed a complaint against him, threatening the principal with a law suit if she did not act on all the above issues.

Things are not always black and white. The fact is, all the above bullying tactics were conducted by people who considered themselves devout, religious Christians. Fact is, Christians can at times by bullies.

Since moving back to California, no such incident has happened ONCE. No one here would dare even think about it.
------------------------------------------------------------

Oops, I accidentally posted the comment before I completed my train of thought ........

My initial response to Jim's above story from "a Southern city" was one of total disbelief, as well; due primarily to the, "Heil Hitler!", remark. I thought, O sure!, how could someone be so insanely cruel?

Now in no way do I agree with anyone saying something so awful and cruel, but after getting to know Jim a little better over the past couple of days, then I can certainly understand WHY they would take it to that level with him because he enjoys pushing peoples buttons. Sadly, now I actually believe his story.

But having said that, I do not feel SORRY for Jim. No way. He created that mess in the South, and now hes created the same mess here. Feel sorry for him? ...nah!

I will not Bless you.

This one is for you, Jim .....

"Don't waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don't throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you."

Matthew 7:6

Darcy, Champ, Hesp,

Well...so much for my little attempt at a reasoned approach! It was an honest try, but I should've known better! Darcy, you are correct, we are dealing with a psychopath here.

It's apparent that I've rendered you three a disservice with my rooting-section posts. Now little Hitler is using those to ridicule you. I unwittingly provided him the ammunition for that, for which I hope you'll accept my apology. I didn't know how low he could go.
That's quite clear now, though!

I have to wonder just who would engage in the repetitive ridicule, as seen on this & other threads, without embarrassing himself? A 3rd-grader? A mental patient? An unfortunate head-injury victim? Yet this guy seems to enjoy it! It's actually an embarrassment to be associated with him in any way--even as an antagonist!

I think we've drawn him out nicely for all to see. A quick look at the trash he's tossing out here should preclude his being taken seriously. Not sure what's left to do but sit back and watch him self-destruct. Please LMK if you have any other ideas.

Take care & Godspeed...

G

Thank you, George! ...but please don't apologize for Jim's gross display of mocking and contempt for us. He only accomplished is making himself look ridiculous ...not you.

Godspeed, my friend :)

Thanks for reposting that, champ.

"My initial response to Jim's above story from "a Southern city" was one of total disbelief, as well; due primarily to the, "Heil Hitler!", remark. I thought, O sure!, how could someone be so insanely cruel?"

Not only that, but these are supposedly fellow colleagues -- teachers and a "community liaison officer" whatever that is. As I said way back in my initial reaction long ago, I could imagine maybe in rural 1930s Alabama some hick standing knee-deep in a swamp saying these things totally unsolicited, but not teachers and "liaison officers" in the New South of the 1970s or 80s.

"Now in no way do I agree with anyone saying something so awful and cruel, but after getting to know Jim a little better over the past couple of days, then I can certainly understand WHY they would take it to that level with him..."

Ah, I hadn't thought of that angle, though it assumes two hypotheticals:

1) his anecdote really happened

2) his childishness on display here is a real part of his emotional personality, and not just a cleverly calculated ploy.

Pursuing that angle and assuming those two hypotheticals are true, it becomes totally believable to imagine a scenario where Jim Foster's Christian colleagues begin by politely suggesting this or that aspect of Christian faith (perhaps occasionally nudging into proselytizing). Foster responds repeatedly and in escalating fashion with childish outbursts, with lurid and inflammatory hyperbole, including the kind of extremely anti-Christian hatred which the commenter "Stella Barbut" posted on another thread which Foster warmly supported and congratulated. All this, in this imaginative and plausible reconstruction of the events of Foster's anecdote, in turn eventually triggered some nasty counter-comments from the Christian colleagues (who are, after all, only human and not saints). That might be the context Foster left out -- if his story is true in the first place. I still smell a concocted rat there, though.

"because he enjoys pushing peoples buttons."

He does, but he could be doing it in a calculated way. I can see two effects his button-pushing with his incendiary language has had:

1) it obfuscates the challenges people have directed against him, creating a diversion of a sub-topic -- Jim Foster and his "attackers" -- to take some of the heat off the challenges themselves

2) related to #1, it seems to create increasing discord -- he's fanning the flames -- hoping that the flames will damage his detractors and not him: a risky ploy, but it could work: People could start to blame us for the escalating situation (as the otherwise intelligent Kinana of Khaybar seems to lean toward), just because we insist on standing for our position and not letting Foster get away with things.

Hesp,

Your observations and the possibilities they suggest are spot-on. Kudos to you for stepping forward to question that "poor me" story from the outset. Likewise to Champ and Darcy for standing their ground in the face of character-assassination and ridicule.

I'd like to throw this in, if I may. Last evening, at a time when the post-total here was at 130, I counted the number of posts on this thread which were either forwarded by, or related-to this character. (I did not break them down further between 'by' and 'about')
That total was 89 posts of the 130 total either submitted by or pertinent to, our little friend. That's 68 percent of the posts on this thread--a hijacking any muslim could admire! And a diversion, not just from the original subject, but from the purpose of this site (as I see it). I would also call that a little victory for the impersonator, as my sense from the outset has been that it's attention that's craved here, positive, negative, no matter--people attacked & offended, no matter, etc.

Hesp, your thoughts regarding the fine line between taking a stand vs appearing as the persecutors are also well-taken. There is always the risk that good people will be misunderstood. That's why I admire folks who have what it takes to stand-up to bullies.

This guy may be a tactician as a con-man, but he's no strategist. If he were he wouldn't have exposed himself with his repetitive rants of ridicule. (aliteration unintended) He cracked. With apologies to Jack Nicholson..."He couldn't handle the truth!"

Did I mention that I think you guys rock? LOL!

G

Thank you for writing, Hesp ....

Excellent insights. As you pointed out, I am beginning to also see a more calculated approach in his overly effusive and disengenuous comments; and by now, I'm certain that the majority of other posters are seeing him for what he is, too.

I not only smell a rat, but I see one as well.

You Rock too, George! ...and I sincerely mean that :)

Great post, btw ...

Hi, George ...

Jim's disengenuous silliness continues towards you and I, here, at the bottom of this thread:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/jews-leaving-swedish-city-because-of-attacks-by-muslims.html#comments

Ho-hum!

Hi Champ!

Glad to hear our little friend is still at it!
He's covering himself in his own excrement, pushing his own self-destruct button. It's so considerate of him to take the job on for himself! To borrow another old movie line, "He has seen the enemy...and it is HIM!"

Thanks for all, you really are a Champ!

G

LOL!! ...and thanks, George :)

"He has seen the enemy...and it is HIM!"

Exactly! ...

True, Hesp ...

Jimmy claims to be a 6 year veteran of JW, so he must harbor the same fantasies about being a military man, as well. We have had many military men; and I think women, too, post on JW over the years, and they are generally very dignified posters with good substantive character. Jim is just a character, but without the "good substantive character". I mean, you and I have been posting on JW for quite some time, and I never knew he existed until a week ago ...so when did you notice this clown?

Hesp ...check out Jim's latest drunken rant here:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/dc-police-enforce-sharia-eject-women-from-main-prayer-hall-in-mosque.html#comments

My gawd, lol ...