Chances are, we'll later be told that this was "taken out of context." No controversial statement by a Muslim figure has ever been taken in its "proper" context, you know. "Muslim leader blasts gay lifestyle," by Karyl Walker for the Jamaica Observer, February 1:
President of the Islamic Council of Jamaica, Mustafa Muhammad, says he agrees with the Sharia law which prescribes death for people who openly flaunt homosexual behaviour.
Muhammad did not mince words as he lashed out against what he described as an unclean, unnatural lifestyle.
"It is illegal and in the Sharia law the punishment is death. If you follow Christianity it is a crime in the sight of God. He destroyed a whole city because of this thing. It is an ungodly practice and I apologise to no one for this," Muhammad said. [...]
Muhammad made sure to state that he was against the killing of gays in Jamaica.
"This can only be done in a country that is being run by Islam," he said.
And which system of laws would he like to see in Jamaica?
In Britanistan, packs of feral Muslim youths are regularly beating up gays so severly that it's only a matter of time before someone is killed: http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/violent-muslim-homophobia-jihad-against.html
Really, a whole city because of gays?
I've always had this suspicion based on obsevation that moslems cannot read well and certainly can't contexualise or empathise.
I presume the City he means in Sodom which begs the question of why Gomorroh and the neighbouring cities were destroyed then - maybe they were just too close by?
Most importantly, no where is homosexuality given as the reason for the city's destruction in the Bible. There are reasons given all over the Bible and those reasons should particularly make moslems sudder (not excepting that others should sudder too but mohammed's example makes Sodom's practices for which it was destroyed acceptable to 20% of the world).
What should be more worrying to moslems who reject Christ (they say he is prophet but not priest or king therefore they reject Christ) is what Christ said about Sodom:
I tell you the truth, Sodom will rise up on the day of judgement and condemn this wicked generation because had they seen Me and My miracles they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes and the city would still be here to this day.
http://newstime.co.nz/2009/stop-sharia-law-now.html
“Homosexuals Must Be Killed” Muslims speak out (According to Islamic law)
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/026-homosexuality.htm
“Islamic law teaches that homosexuality is a vile form of fornication, punishable by death”
Actor Ian McKellen regularly rips out pages of Bibles in hotel rooms, Leviticus 18:22 because he doesn't like the passage regarding homosexuality
Wonder if he'd do that with the Koran?
I can see Muslim protestor signs now: "Celebrate diversity, not perversity."
A young, affluent client of mine once insisted to me that Christian extremists are just as great a threat to personal freedom as Muslim extremists. I had to ask him if he could see the difference between opposition to gay marriage on the one hand, and killing homosexuals on the other.
Like a true lib, he was unswayed.
A young, affluent client of mine once insisted to me that Christian extremists are just as great a threat to personal freedom as Muslim extremists. I had to ask him if he could see the difference between opposition to gay marriage on the one hand, and killing homosexuals on the other.
Like a true lib, he was unswayed.
And in the Guardian's Cif this week, we had the lovely George Galloway lecturing us on the "progressive" movement. Could you effing believe it? One of the biggest apologist for islam in our midst today! Here is a man who praised the "indefatigability" of Saddam Hussain - one of the biggest despots of our time. Mr Galloway is even now shilling for Iran – one of the most repressive regimes in the world by appearing on Press TV usually dissing the west and praising islam, and one who supports the bloodthirsty Jew baiters Hamas.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/29/progressive-politics-labour-conservatives
Just to redress the balance a bit, the Pope has condemned British equality legislation for running contrary to "natural law" as he confirmed his first visit to the UK later this year.
OK he's not asking for the death penalty, but still not very progressive, is it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/01/pope-condemns-british-equality-bill
Jamaica not islamic enough? Time for "ganjahad"? ..or perhaps he'd had a little too much of it himself. What a bumbaclot..man.
OK he's not asking for the death penalty, but still not very progressive, is it.
In this case he was speaking out against a law that compelled christian adoption agencies to place babies with homosexual couples NOT that homosexuals should widely persecuted or summarily executed.
Anyway, it seems that allah does approve of homosexual behavior as long as the muslims in question do not "fall in love" with their, em, "partners". IOW islam kills homosexuals that feel love - indeed a great sin in allah's eyes.
"George Galloway lecturing us on the "progressive" movement. Could you effing believe it?"
Actually this is exactly what I would expect.
Read the history of Progressivism. English and American traditions of liberty were founded on (compatible with) the philosophies of Cicero, John Locke and the ancient Israelites. These valued the individual and self determination over the State.
The progressives reject Locke and embrace the German philosophies of Neitzche, Hegel and Marx. Progressives value the State over the individual and instead of defending rights, the State is the grantor and custodian of these rigths. Progressives see humanity as perfectable. Rights are not natural but can only be provided by the State.
The Muslims hate the Jews because of religious prejudice. The Progressives hate the Jews because of their traditions of liberty, their free spirit and passion for the free market. This is another reason why Progressives embrace atheism. The freedom inspired by Judaism and Christianity is antithetical to Progressivism.
Atheism can be a very dangerous thing in the wrong hands.
There is nothing clever about Progressivism either.
"In Britanistan, packs of feral Muslim youths"
Good description. They're like animals. Rabid ones.
What made them that way? Islam.
In regards to Christianity's treatment of gay people: they were burned in the Middle Ages, persecuted right up until the mid-20th century, and even now cannot safely walk as couples in cities like Jacksonville, FL. All this is because of Christianity. Then there are the "God hates fags" crowd, but of course they are extremists (just like other religious extremists).
However, there is a light at the end of this medieval tunnel: Pastor Mark Tidd, of Denver, is accepting and allowing gay people to be gay. http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_13843213
Whereas 50 years ago all Christians knew that "sodomy" referred to people of Sodom practicing homosexuality, now we hear that "no where (sic) is homosexuality given as the reason for the city's destruction in the Bible". So perhaps God is developing a soft spot for gays. Good!
"All this is because of Christianity"
Oh, really?
Please provide the verses from the New Testament supporting your assertion.
....perhaps this muslim "leader" hasn't gotten familiar with the extant practices of muslim homosexuality all over the world. Muslims have a huge problem with homosexuality within their ranks.
That is but one more reason why muslims are an abomination to God, and to God's people.
A lot of people were burned in the Middle Ages. We are no longer in the Middle Ages. We have stopped burning people. We have grown up, and moved on.
I think average people tend to "persecute" gays, because they don't know and don't want to know what goes on in other people's bedrooms. To rub their noses in this information is annoying. When was the last Straight Pride parade? I suppose I missed it.
Gay-bashers, on the other hand are like some Muslims--they just want an excuse to act like animals, and beat someone to within an inch of his life.
I have nothing at all against gays, either as a group or as individuals. I consider myself to hold more conservative views than most of the people I know. Yet, if gays and lesbians want to marry, I think they should be allowed to do so. Sex is one thing, but love is another. The heart loves where it loves, but sex belongs in the bedroom.
Michaelangelo was gay, Crusader Richard the Lion-Hearted was gay, Oscar Wilde was gay - and PLENTY more of the world's finest.
Case closed.
Gay, straight, both, bi, undecided, who cares?
As long as a relationship is based on love and respect then it cannot be wrong. And I know plenty of straight relationships that are not based on love and respect but rather on other darker drives, such as fear, jealousy, resentment, the need to dominate etc (I'm sure you can think of more).
Besides, the choice of who a person sleeps with is only a small arc in the wide spectrum of all the activities in anyones life. Why should that one single aspect be brought to the fore and made to dominate our concept of that individual?
After thousands of years of soul-searching and breast-beating, humanity has neither cured homosexuality nor elevated it to exhalted status. I sometimes wonder why people still think it's a credible subject for discussion.
Any casual glance through history shows that homosexuality has existed in every human society in every period of human development. It's clearly just a natural part of the human environment. As a practice it's neither good nor evil. It's just there. Opinions are superfluous.
Railing against it or raving in favour of it are both equally pointless. One might as well have a strong approve/disapprove attitude to the Earth having a moon.
Concise, eloquent and sensible. Great comment!
Cornelius wrote:
A young, affluent client of mine once insisted to me that Christian extremists are just as great a threat to personal freedom as Muslim extremists. I had to ask him if he could see the difference between opposition to gay marriage on the one hand, and killing homosexuals on the other.
Like a true lib, he was unswayed.
......................
Yes, Cornelius—even Mustafa Muhammad seems to acknowledge this difference, at least in a roundabout manner:
"It is illegal and in the Sharia law the punishment is death. If you follow Christianity it is a crime in the sight of God..."
This hints at equivalency, but note that even Mustafa Muhammad *does not say* that Christians are calling for the murder of homosexuals.
more:
Muhammad made sure to state that he was against the killing of gays in Jamaica.
"This can only be done in a country that is being run by Islam," he said.
......................
You hear this all the time—some Muslim leader coyly saying that of course Shari'ah in Britain would not include stonings, or that you can't amputate the hands and feet of criminals in the US, or some such. Whereas, what they mean is that you can't call for such things *yet*.
More from Mustafa Muhammad:
President of the Islamic Council of Jamaica, Mustafa Muhammad said, “There is bad media coverage of Muslims; people tend to show more interest in Islam when bad things are being reported of us. When people get the true teaching they will have a greater understanding and appreciation for it.”
......................
I suppose Muhammad wouldn't include *calling for the murder of gay people* among the "bad things" reported on Islam. I gather this is among the "true teaching they will have a greater understanding and appreciation for it".
more:
And which system of laws would he like to see in Jamaica?
......................
Well, let's see:
He said, “At the present time in Jamaica, the community [of Muslims] is small, and there is [only] communication between different brothers in different localities; however, there is still…a hope for unity and oneness [among all Muslims]. We are now at a point in which there is great potential for the expansion of Islam in the island. [Although] other Muslims had their own plans and decisions [for expansion],” for example, Muslim leaders “in St. Elizabeth and Kingston…we have now decided that collective vision is required for this growth to occur.
......................
Like all Muslims, he wants to see the expansion—and eventual dominance—of Islam, in Jamaica and everywhere. It also looks as though there may be the potential for Muslim on Muslim violence there as competing "visions" of Muslim expansion come into conflict. Something else for Jamaicans to look forward to.
http://jamfash.tripod.com/muslim.html
(This article fairly muddled, and contains a number of historical inaccuracies—odd, since it is reportedly from USINFO.State.Gov. I mainly include it because I used it as the source of the Mustafa Muhammad quotes.)
ImNoDhimmi
Thanks. Actually I strongly approve of the Earth having a moon, but I'm glad you got my point!
And had Galloway been around 70 years ago, he would surely have been hanged as a traitor. Lord Haw Haw was hanged for less in 1946.
I knew I'd find the usual assortment here equating the worst practices of Islam with Christianity.
When the axe falls, and it already has in so many places, just remember that Christianity = Islam. There is no difference, they are both bad. Keep telling yourself this, fools.
I have seen the subject of homosexuality derail otherwise on-topic discussions on Jihad Watch (see some of the discussions of reviews about books by Bruce Bawer) While I am an agnostic, I am well aware of the vastly superior teachings of present day Christianilty (minus a small minority of crazies). But, that being said, I don't care if the Bible condemns homosexuality or not. What is important is the fact that main-stream modern day Christianity does not wish to impose draconian penalties on homosexuals, as does Islam.
While I appreciate sincere Christian believers, I lose interest in these discussions when it comes down to the centuries old "our religion is true, and theirs is not."
However, as I said, I do believe in the vast superiority of Christianity as a guiding priciple, to Islam. Christianity is without question BETTER than Islam. And,if Christianity was much more prevelant in Europe (REAL Christianity, not the agnostic kind of the Church of England)I do believe that it might be a uniting force in fighting the European Islamification of Europe.
But to me, the important thing to remember is, agnostics (and atheists) like myself, and religious Christians need to unite (and gays and Jews and Hindus etc)in fighting this insidious foe. For one to give the cold shoulder to the other will get us nowhere.
Interestingly, the Koranic account of Lot ("Lut" in Arabic) accentuates the homosexual connotations more than the Biblical account does.
Ibn Kathir, a major Muslim writer of tafsir (commentary or exegesis on the Koran) in his exposition of the story of Lut in the Koran, quoted a Hadith from Abu Dawud which in turn quotes Mohammed:
"Whoever is found doing the act of the people of Lut, then kill them; the doer and the one it is done to."
Ibn Kathir also notes that in addition to Abu Dawud, other Muslim scholars -- Imam Ahmad, At-Tirmidhi, and Ibn Majah -- also recorded this same Hadith.
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=7&tid=18257
I heard an interview on the BBC's Europe Today programme. It dealt with the pope calling on the British bishops to fight against the Church being forced to employ gays in positions which would compromise the Church's moral stance.
The interviewer, Peter Dobbie, was very aggressive towards a spokesman from the Vatican. Dobbie unashamedly promoted and defended a pro-gay view. He was hardly neutral as he should have been.
I would like to see him go after a Muslim cleric with the same zeal on the same issue. I doubt that he would have the guts.
Just when you think that the religion with the most adherents on earth may not be such a good thing, a bright side of Sharia law is revealed.
Sodomites: Call NARTH.
There is much I could say about the detestable sin of Homosexuality.
The word of God shall suffice for this topic.
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 18:22 (King James Version)
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 1 : 24-27 (King James Version)
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities" -- Voltaire (1694-1778)
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities" -- Voltaire (1694-1778)"
The true Christians prays for those that are overcome with sin such as Homosexuals.
It is the follower of Islam that seeks their destruction. I pray for their conversion.
I am not the judge. God Almighty is!
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities" -- Voltaire (1694-1778)"
Voltaire has written of "tolerance," but was totally intolerant of Christians and was a rabid anti-Semite. So "tolerance" applied to anything but Christians and Jews. That's pretty much where radical Humanists are at today.
In the New York Times (September 30, 1990) Arthur Herzberg to quote on the question of Voltaire's Antisemitism:
"...He was at war with both Judaism and Christianity. He wanted to purge all men, of whatever persuasion, from these superstitions in order to make them enlightened. In a book published more than 20 years ago, in 1968, entitled ''The French Enlightenment and the Jews,'' I argued against this construction. An anti-Semite of the most damaging kind is one who asserts that, no matter what Jews might believe, their inherent character is fixed - and nasty. In the book, I cite dozens of passages from the whole corpus of Voltaire to the very end of his life, more than a decade after he had made his brief bow to de Pinto. Two citations will suffice. In his ''Letter of Memmius to Cicero'' (1771), Voltaire, in the pose of an ancient Roman reporting on the Jews, wrote: "They are, all of them, born with raging fanaticism in their hearts, just as the Bretons and the Germans are born with blond hair."
"I would not be in the least bit surprised if these people would not some day become deadly to the human race." In the next year, writing the essay "One Must Take Sides" - introduced as "the last word by Voltaire on metaphysics" - he ridiculed each of the major religions, but he was meanest to the Jews: "You have surpassed all nations in impertinent fables, in bad conduct and in barbarism. You deserve to be punished, for this is your destiny." This is hardly the rhetoric of a man who thinks that Jews are just another people waiting to be enlightened. It is the talk of a "noble Roman," his favorite self-definition, who has no patience with inferior people such as Jews and, for that matter, blacks."
"The defenders of Voltaire have continued to argue that he was not personally an anti-Semite but only guilty of some rhetorical excesses. That is not how those who were arguing for and against the emancipation of the Jews, both in his own time and in the next several generations, read him. Jacobins such as Jean Francois Rewbell in the 1790's and the socialist Pierre Proudhon in the next generation are among the many figures, especially of the left, who justified their arguments against the Jews by quoting Voltaire. Such figures were not quarreling with Judaism; they were attributing innate wickedness to the Jewish character. This is racist anti-Semitism. Such opinions helped open the door to the horrors of our century."
Who knew there were muslims in Jamaica? I didn't but I guess I should have; they are everywhere. And just think, only thirty years ago muslims were as scarce as aliens from outer space. We knew they existed but they were thousands of miles away where they couldn't bother us. I hoped they would stay there forever, expected they would, because why on earth would these strange people with their fanatical beliefs want to mingle with inferior, immoral beings who denied their prophet and god?
I must have been asleep when muslims started coming in droves, invading my country. One day I realized that my worst nightmare had become a reality and I wished I did not know about their bloody history and vile culture. But I had studied the dynamics of their imperialist, predatory religion and their blind faith and fatalism. I spent years learning about the muslim ethos, tribalism, brutal cruelty, debasement and enslavement of women, and their inexorable certitude of islamic superiority and infallibilty in the face of irrefutable evidence to the contrary. I knew muslims were compulsive, inveterate liars and incapable of rational, logical thought. The knowledge I had worked so hard to attain became a curse, an onerous burden.
So I decided to revisit my study of islam from a different perspective, looking for evidence that would offer a glimmer of hope; something, anything, redemptive in nature. I looked for a message of true peace, kindness, mercy, compassion, hope, love, and tolerance. I couldn't find anything I missed the first time. Islam is an obscenity borne of muhammad's debauched mind and the poisons of subsequent acolytes, combined to form a noxious cauldron of perpetual malevolence. Muslims are not the best of people, they are the most confused, miserable, angry, misled, and dangerous of people.
Islam is a Global Terrorist Organization and should classified as such.
So of course you follow the bible exactly and agree with everything that is written in it.
Genesis 3:16, 1 Corinthians 11:3-9, Ephesians 5:22-24, Colossians 3:18, 1 Peter 3:1-6: The husband is to rule over his wife. Wives are to be subject to their husbands even when the husband is disobedient to God. Man is the image and glory of God, while woman is the glory of man. Man was not created for woman but woman for man.
Genesis 17:14: A child is to be punished when his parents neglect to have him circumcised.
Genesis 38:8-10: A man who refuses to impregnate his widowed sister-in-law is put to death.
Exodus 20:4: We are not to make likenesses of anything.
Exodus 20:8-11, Exodus 31:15-17, Exodus 34:21, Exodus 35:1-3: No work of any kind is to be done on the Sabbath, not even lighting of a fire. This commandment is permanent. Death is required for infractions. (This would require even that essential services, such as hospitals, police departments, etc., shut down on the Sabbath.)
Exodus 21:7-11: A father can sell a daughter into slavery to pay a debt. A daughter sold into slavery is not released at the end of six years as is an ordinary male slave.
Exodus 21:12: Whoever strikes a man so that he dies is to be put to death--except that, in some cases, God will appoint a place to which the offender may flee instead.
Exodus 21:15: Whoever strikes his father or mother is to be put to death.
Exodus 21:16: Whoever steals a man is to be put to death.
Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9, Deuteronomy 21:18-21: A child who curses his parent(s) is to be put to death. A stubborn and/or rebellious child is to be put to death.
Exodus 22:16-17: An unbetrothed virgin is required to marry her seducer.
Exodus 22:20: Anyone who sacrifices to other gods must be destroyed.
Exodus 22:29: Firstborn children should be sacrificed to the Lord.
Leviticus 3:17: The eating of blood and fat are prohibited forever.
Leviticus 11:7, Deuteronomy 14:8: Eating pork is prohibited.
Leviticus 11:10: Eating shellfish is prohibited.
Leviticus 19:26: Flesh with blood in it must not be eaten.
Leviticus 12:2: A woman who has a child, especially a female child, is unclean and purification rites are required.
Leviticus 19:19: A cloth garment made of two kinds of material must not be worn.
Leviticus 19:27: The hair on the temples should not be rounded off.
Leviticus 19:27: The edges of a beard should not be clipped.
Leviticus 19:28: Tattoos and the like are prohibited.
Leviticus 20:10-12, Deuteronomy 22:22: Adulterers (in some cases) must be put to death.
Leviticus 20:18: If a man has sex relations with a woman who is menstruating, both shall be excommunicated from their people.
Leviticus 24:16: Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord must be put to death.
Leviticus 27:3-7: Males are more valuable than females.
Leviticus 27:29: Human sacrifice is condoned.
Numbers 31:18, Numbers 31:35, Judges 21:12: Young virgins are considered a spoil of war and can be taken for the use of the victors.
Deuteronomy 13:2-5: Anyone who causes someone to turn to another god must be put to death.
Deuteronomy 13:6-10: A man is required to slay his friends and members of his own family who are guilty of worshipping another god.
Deuteronomy 17:12: A man who shows contempt for a judge or priest must be put to death.
Deuteronomy 18:20-22, Ezekiel 14:9: If a prophet's words do not come true, he is a false prophet and must be put to death. This is true even if he has been deceived by God himself.
Deuteronomy 22:13-21: A bride in whom "the tokens of virginity" are not found is to be put to death. (The bridegroom who falsely accuses his bride gets off with a fine.)
Deuteronomy 22:23-24: A betrothed virgin who is seduced in the city is to be put to death unless she cries for help.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29: A virgin who is raped must marry her rapist (if they are "found").
Deuteronomy 23:2: A bastard--and his offspring to the tenth generation--are to be punished for his illegitimacy and cannot enter a congregation of the Lord.
Deuteronomy 23:10: A man who has a seminal emission during the night is unclean and must go through a purification process.
Deuteronomy 23:12-14: The Lord must not be allowed to see human excrement (it is indecent).
Deuteronomy 25:5-10: Deuteronomy 24:1-4: A man may divorce his wife simply because she displeases him.
Deuteronomy 25:11: A wife who grabs her husband's opponent by his "private parts" must have her hand cut off and is to be shown no pity.
Proverbs 13:24, Proverbs 22:15, Proverbs 23:13: Children are to be disciplined with the rod--if beaten with a rod, they will not die.
Matthew 5:22: Do not get angry. Anger is a sin.
Matthew 23:9: Do not call any man on earth "father."
Matthew 5:28: Whoever looks upon a woman lustfully commits adultery in his heart.
Matthew 5:33-37: Make no vows or oaths. They arise from evil.
Matthew 5:29-30, Matthew 18:8-9, Mark 9:43-47: If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off.
Matthew 5:38-44: Turn the other cheek. Love your enemies. Do good to those that hate you.
Matthew 5:40: If any man would sue you and take your coat, give him your cloak also.
Matthew 5:42, Luke 6:30, Luke 6:35: Give to everyone who asks. Lend to everyone who wants to borrow.
Matthew 19:12, Romans 8:13: A man should consider castration, thereby making himself a eunuch, for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. If you live after the flesh, you shall die, but if you put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live.
Mark 10:2-12, Luke 16:18: Divorce is wrong, and to remarry is to commit adultery.
Luke 12:33, 1 Timothy 6:8: Sell your possessions and give to charity. Be content with having only food and clothing.
Luke 14:26: One cannot be a disciple of Jesus unless he hates his mother, father, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and even his own life.
Luke 14:33: Any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.
Romans 1:26-27, Romans 1:32: Men and women who commit unnatural sexual acts deserve to die.
1 Corinthians 10:24: Put your neighbor's good ahead of your own.
1 Corinthians 11:3-10: A woman is to keep her head covered while praying or prophesying.
1 Corinthians 11:14: It is a shame for a man to have long hair.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35: Women are to be silent in church. If they have any questions, they are to ask their husbands at home. It is a shame for women to speak in church.
2 Corinthians 13:12: Greet each other with a holy kiss.
Colossians 2:8: Philosophy is to be shunned.
2 Thessalonians 3:10: Anyone who doesn't work should not be allowed to eat.
1 Peter 3:3: Women should not braid their hair, or wear gold or pearls or costly attire.
1 Timothy 2:11-12: Women are to learn in silence (from men) in all submissiveness.
1 Timothy 2:12: Women are not permitted to teach or have authority over men.
James 5:14-15: Use prayer and anointing to cure illness.
2 John 1:9-11: Do not allow anyone into your house who is not a fellow believer.
And finally, this is is for you specifically:
Proverbs 26:5: Answer a fool. If you don't, he will think himself wise.
The BIble is the word of the living God the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, who created all things seen by His unseen power.
You mock the God who created you!
A man who you admire, Voltaire was a detestable anti-semite among other things.
"Voltaire has written of "tolerance," but was totally intolerant of Christians and was a rabid anti-Semite. So "tolerance" applied to anything but Christians and Jews. That's pretty much where radical Humanists are at today."
Voltaire was a hater of God and the Christian Faith, you seem to have much in common with him. May God have mercy on your soul.In Jesus name.Amen
BTW, the King James Version is the most accurate and faithful translation of God's word from the original Hebrew and Greek.
Next time when you post Bible verses I suggest that you use the KJV.
The chapters and verses are in the King James Version (look them up), the list accompanying each is in plain English. I don't mock a god that created me, clearly I don't believe in the same hateful angry, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. I simply mock you and your 'knowledge' of the scripture that you're such a 'soldier' for.
I won't bother to reply any further ... as your bible says in Proverbs 26:4 "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him". Oh, and it's the King James Version so that thou may understandeth.
Peace.
"I don't mock a god that created me, clearly I don't believe in the same hateful angry, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. I simply mock you and your 'knowledge' of the scripture that you're such a 'soldier' for."
This is what God hates :
1. Homosexual acts (Leviticus 18:22).
2.Bestiality (Leviticus 18:23)
3. Idols, and the materials used to make idols (Deuteronomy 7:25)
4. Blemished sacrifices (Deuteronomy 17:1)
5. Worshipping the sun, moon or stars (Deuteronomy 17:3-4)
6. Divination (Deuteronomy 18:10)
7. Astrology (Deuteronomy 18:10)
8. Enchanters (Deuteronomy 18:10)
9. Witches (Deuteronomy 18:10)
10. Charmers (Deuteronomy 18:11)
11. Wizards (Deuteronomy 18:11)
12. Necromancers (Deuteronomy 18:11)
13. Transvestitism (Deuteronomy 22:5)
14. The hire of a whore (Deuteronomy 23:18)
15. Remarriage to a former wife after she has been married to another man (Deuteronomy 24:4)
16. Dishonest scales (Deuteronomy 25:13-16)
17. Workers of iniquity (Psalm 5:5)
18. The wicked (Psalm 11:5)
19. Those who love violence (Psalm 11:5)
20. The froward [perverse] (Proverbs 3:32)
21. A proud look (Proverbs 6:16-17)
22. A lying tongue (Proverbs 6:17)
23. Hands that shed innocent blood (Proverbs 6:17)
24. A heart that devises wicked imaginations (Proverbs 6:18)
25. Feet that are swift in running to mischief (Proverbs 6:18)
26. A false witness who speaks lies (Proverbs 6:19)
27. Anyone who sows discord among brethren (Proverbs 6:19)
28. Lying lips (Proverbs 12:22)
29. The sacrifices of the wicked (Proverbs 15:8)
30. The ways of the wicked (Proverbs 15:9)
31. The thoughts of the wicked (Proverbs 15:26)
32. The proud in heart (Proverbs 16:5)
33. Those who justify the wicked (Proverbs 17:15)
34. Those who condemn the just (Proverbs 17:15)
35. Vain sacrifices (Isaiah 1:13)
36. Feasts as Israel celebrated them (Isaiah 1:14)
37. Robbery for burnt offering (Isaiah 61:8)
38. Idolatry (Jeremiah 44:2-4)
39. Evil plans against neighbors (Zechariah 8:17)
40. False oaths (Zechariah 8:17)
41. Esau (Malachi 1:1-3; Romans 9:13)
42. Divorce (Malachi 2:14-16)
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD,
and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isaiah 55:6-7 (King James Version)
Christian Soldier
I'm a Christian like you and I won't go against what The Book says, but if there's one thing I've learned from the teachings of Jesus it's to think for myself and use my powers of reasoning. Isn't that why God gave us the gift of free-will?
We all know the Bible can be quoted and counter-quoted all day long, but doing so will get us nowhere. You're already in a war of quotes with others here.
I respect what you're saying but I think substituting scripture quotes for rational discourse is not the way forward, for any of us brother.
Listen, think, reason, discuss. They're the best weapons a Christian soldier can have.
susanp
Your powerful words strike into my heart.
In many ways my own experiences reflect your own. I've spent almost my entire life living near the Islamic enclaves in my area and I've known many Muslims, so I've always been at least vaguely aware of their innate hostility and aggressiveness. Like many, though, I accepted the whole PC mindset and largely blamed myself for the misgivings I felt, even though I felt no similar unease around the Sikhs, Hindus, Jews and Chinese within our community. I always tried to be tolerant and accepting, as I thought any good citizen should be. There's a line from an old Simple Minds song, do you remember it?
"All my life here I've spent, with my faith in God the church and the government"
Would sum me up, I suppose. Until 9/11.
It's one of those days when everyone can remember exactly where they were and what they were doing when they heard the news. I watched TV all day. The burning towers, the smoke, clouds of pulverised concrete, rubble, bodies, watching the towers concertina into the street below, carrying all those lives with them. People like me, like my family. Tears, anger and outrage. New York is the capital city of Western civilisation. Wherever we live, it's our city. The world city.
When I heard the attackers were Saudi Muslims an alarm bell went off in the back of my mind. Even though that bunch of murderers had operated half a world away, with their pen-knives and planes full of victims, I've seen exactly the same hatred in Muslim eyes looking straight at me in my own street. The gleam in their eyes is the firestorm light of dying cities.
So I started reading, seeking out the answers to the same questions you were also asking. Like you I searched for hope, though neither of us found a shred of comfort, did we? None of us have.
It was a shock to find that the world is actually very different from the one I used to imagine. It's not the world I hoped had been born from the blood shed by our parents in the war against Fascism. New Fascists have arisen. Or are they just the most ancient ones, lunging at us once again? A hand reaching once again to claw at us through the bloody wall of time. There is no safe harbour here, only endless warfare. But I know I will die before I betray my children into the hands of strangers far more hateful than those our fathers taught us to fear.
Susan, all we can do is fight in any way we can, and tell others why we fight, and teach our children well, and pass the fight to them after we are gone, and they will carry the fire.
Here we go again- Another discussion derailed by "my reigious/non religious beliefs are true and your beliefs are not". Please, there are other forums for that. The purpose of this forum is to expose Islamification. Frankly, I don't care what any of you believe is true or not true about Christianity. Let the Shiites and Sunnis blow themselves up over religious dogma. Let's not do it ourselves.
Islamsuxx- My apologies to you. Although I still think this is not the forum for discussions about Christian dogma, after re-reading Christian Soldier's posts I understand why you would feel the need to answer them. Sounds like her God and Allah hate a lot of the same things.
Here is the problem when quoting the "Old Testament" without the proper understanding, for sake of time I will comment on a few of the references made by Islamsuxx;
This is in reference to a child who has reached the age when he becomes liable for punishment, then [his soul] will be cut off. Meaning he has not had himself circumcised when he knew he should be.
Here is the actual text from the source (translated into English);
8. So Judah said to Onan, "Come to your brother's wife and perform the rite of the levirate, and raise up progeny for your brother."
9. Now Onan knew that the progeny would not be his, and it came about, when he came to his brother's wife, he wasted [his semen] on the ground, in order not to give seed to his brother.
10. Now what he did was evil in the eyes of the Lord, and He put him to death also.
He was punished for practicing coitus interruptus (he wasted his seed on the ground
As far as the death penalty, unlike in Islam getting a death penalty verdict was very difficult. As has been metioned on this board before, if a Sanhedrin (Jewish court) decided on the death penalty more than once on 70 years it was considered a blood thirsty court.
Somebody really needs to talk to the author of the KJV, here is the actual text from the source (translated into Enlgish);
28. Your fullness offering and your heave offering you shall not delay; the firstborn of your sons you shall give Me. (Why you chose to include 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 and 29 I don't understand)
Anyway this does not refer to sacrifice it refers to the fact that firstborn sons belong to the Kohanim (priests) and must be redeemed for money(called a Pidyan haBen which is still practiced today). No sacrifice is required.
As far as some of the other references there are reasons for all of them (particulary the dietary ones in Jewish law). These were nullified with the "New Testament" but still apply to observant Jews.
I only mention this because it's very easy to take verses out of any document but without proper understanding the argument they are used to support falls apart.
Observer
One correction regarding
Exodus 22:29: Firstborn children should be sacrificed to the Lord.
Somebody really needs to talk to the author of the KJV, here is the actual text from the source (translated into Enlgish);
28. Your fullness offering and your heave offering you shall not delay; the firstborn of your sons you shall give Me.
Please ignore this: (Why you chose to include 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 and 29 I don't understand)
I'm not sure what happened.
Observer
"Listen, think, reason, discuss. They're the best weapons a Christian soldier can have."
No my friend, the BEST weapon that a Christian has is the word of God!
Read Ephesians 6: 10-17 carefully, (Especially the 17th verse.) which is posted below
Using the word of God to respond to Islamsuxx' s posts certainly is appropriate and Biblical.
In fact the Lord tells His people to do so. The Lord Jesus when contesting with the Devil responded by using scripture.
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that
these stones be made bread.
But he answered and said, IT IS WRITTEN, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: FOR IT IS WRITTEN, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things
will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: FOR IT IS WRITTEN, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Matthew 4:1-10
Again here in Ephesians 6: 10-17 (Especially the 17th verse.)
Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
And take the helmet of salvation, and the SWORD OF THE SPIRIT, WHICH IS THE WORD OF GOD:
In conclusion, God commands His true people to put for His word so that others might receive His Grace the good news of the Gospel of Christ.
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17
May the Grace and Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Sincerely,
Christian Soldier
"slamsuxx- My apologies to you. Although I still think this is not the forum for discussions about Christian dogma, after re-reading Christian Soldier's posts I understand why you would feel the need to answer them. Sounds like her God and Allah hate a lot of the same things."
This certainly is an appropriate forum for discussion concerning the Christian Faith.
First, Islam has been at war against the Christian Faith since it's beginings.
Second,today Christians are violently persecuted in Muslims Countries, as evidenced by the many articles posted here at Jihad Watch.
Third, there is a great dist between the true and living God of the Bible and the hateful and evil teachings of Satan set forth in the Qu'ran.
Those that do not recognize this should do some careful research on this subject.
Here is some pertinent information :
A Contrast Between Mohammed and Jesus Christ
Mohammed was the prophet of war; Christ is the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6-7).
Mohammed's disciples killed for the faith; Christ's disciples were killed for their faith (Acts 12:2; 2 Tim. 4:7).
Mohammed promoted persecution against the "infidels"; Christ forgave and converted the chief persecutor (1 Tim. 1:13-15).
Mohammed was the taker of life; Christ is the giver of life (John 10:27-28).
Mohammed and his fellow warriors murdered thousands; Christ murdered none but saved many (compare John 12:48).
Mohammed's method was COMPULSION; Christ's aim was voluntary CONVERSION (Acts 3:19).
Mohammed practiced FORCE; Christ preached FAITH (John 6:29,35). Mohammed was a WARRIOR; Christ is a DELIVERER (Col. 1:13; 1 Thess.1:10).
Mohammed conquered his enemies with the sword; Christ conquered his enemies with another kind of sword, the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Heb. 4:12; Acts 2:37).
Mohammed said to the masses, "Convert or die!"; Christ said, "Believe and live!" (John 6:47; 11:25-26). Mohammed was swift to shed blood (Rom. 3:15-17); Christ shed His own blood for the salvation of many (Eph. 1:7).
Mohammed preached "Death to the infidels!"; Christ prayed "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34).
Mohammed declared a holy war (Jihad) against infidels; Christ achieved a holy victory on Calvary's cross (Col. 2:14-15) and His followers share in that victory (John 16:33).
Mohammed constrained people by conquest; Christ constrained people by love (2 Cor. 5:14).
Modern terrorists derive their inspiration from Mohammed and carry out their despicable atrocities in the name of his god Allah; Christians derive their inspiration from the One who said, "Blessed are the peacemakers" (Matthew 5:9).
Some modern day disciples of Mohammed responded to the terrorist attacks by cheering in the streets; modern day disciples of Christ are deeply grieved at past atrocities carried out by those who were "Christians" in name only (the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, etc.).
Many Muslims are peaceful and peace-loving because they do not strictly follow the teachings of their founder; many Christians are peaceful and peace-loving because they do strictly follow the teachings of their Founder (Rom. 12:17-21).
Mohammed called upon his servants to fight; Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world; if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight . . .but now is My kingdom not from here" (John 18:36)
Mohammed ordered death to the Jews (see A.Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad, Oxford University Press [1975], p. 369); Christ ordered that the gospel be preached "to the Jew first" (Rom. 1:16).
The Koran says, "Fight in the cause of Allah" (Qu'ran 2.244); the Bible says, "we wrestle not against flesh and blood" and "the weapons of our warfare are not carnal" (Eph. 6:12; 2 Cor. 10:4).
The Koran says, "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them" (Qu'ran 9.5); Christ said, "Preach the gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15). The Koran says, "I will inspire terror into the hearts of unbelievers" (Qu'ran 8.12); God inspires His terror (fear, reverential awe) into the hearts of believers (Isaiah 8:13).
The Koran (Qu'ran) is a terrorist manual which condones fighting, conflict, terror, slaughter, and genocide against those who do not accept Islam; the Bible is a missionary manual to spread the gospel of peace to all the world (Rom. 10:15).
Mohammed's Mission was to conquer the world for Allah; Christ's mission was to conquer sin's penalty and power by substitutionary atonement (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 3:18).
Mohammed considered Christ a good prophet; Christ pronounced Mohammed to be a false prophet (John 10:10; Matt. 24:11). Mohammed claimed that there was but one God, Allah; Christ claimed that He Himself was God (John 10:30-31; John 8:58-59; John 5:18; John 14:9).
Mohammed's Tomb: OCCUPIED! Christ's tomb: EMPTY!
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ : for it is the power of God unto salvationto every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 1:16
Typo correction:
Third, there is a great "distinction" between
Christian Soldier
Amen to that, my friend. You are, of course, absolutely right.
I just hope you're in my unit when the time comes to mount the barricades. A prayer will be as good as a bayonet on that day.
And may the Grace and Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you also.
Onward Christian Soldiers marching off to war with the Cross of Jesus going on before.
What does the Bible say about a Christian serving in the military?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Printer/military-Christian-PF.html