Toronto: Copts protest Muslim persecution in Egypt

You said, referring to the fact that the Canadian media ignored this protest, "What does it take to break through the politically correct wall protecting Islam?"

I can only suggest that the Copts and their allies organise *another* rally, soon: BIGGER and LOUDER. And then another, and another, and another. Keep up the pressure. These rallies that have taken place so far - in NYC, in Toronto, in Sydney and Melbourne in Australia - should be looked back upon as only the beginning.

Join forces with the Hindus, who suffer atrociously in Bangladesh and Pakistan, as also do the Christians there. Christian and Hindu girls are seized and raped and forcibly converted in *those* countries, by Muslims, just as Coptic girls are snatched in Egypt. There must be Hindu and Christian refugees from both Bangladesh and Pakistan, living in Canada. The Copts could invite them to take part and publicise *their* sufferings which - also inflicted by Muslims - are so horrifyingly similar to what the Copts suffer. It might also be worthwhile teaming up with Nigerian Christians and Sudanese Christians and urging them to speak up and denounce what Muslims have done to *them* over the past fifty or sixty years. Are there Assyrian Christian churches in Canada and the USA? I know there are in Australia, and I know some of them include recent refugees who have been on the receiving end of jihad in Iraq. If there are such in Canada, they could be urged to join in, and loudly declare and condemn what Muslims are doing in Iraq...harassing, raping, kidnapping, robbing and murdering Christians, driving them out of the country, destroying their churches.

Furthermore: the Copts - and those (advocates of other groups attacked by Islam) who join them - should always pointedly invite the leaders and members of all major Christian bodies in Canada (or whichever other country the protest is being held in) to attend their rallies. "Remember the Persecuted!". In Melbourne, Australia, the rally kicked off with a service in the Anglican cathedral and leaders of the main Christian groups in Australia attended that service and took part in the march. That should be par for the course, everywhere. If I were the Copt organisers in Sydney, I would ask Archbishop Pell and Archbishop Jensen to attend and take part, pointedly reminding them that Anglican and Catholic Christians are suffering and have suffered, in Sudan and Nigeria and Indonesia, precisely the same violence from Muslims as Copts are enduring in Egypt, and that although the martyrs are to be commended for their courage, silence - the refusal to name evil deeds as evil - only encourages the evildoers to persist in their wickedness and to grow worse.

A sit-in - by people dressed in mourning - conducted throughout the entire period of Lent, right next to the doorsteps of 1. the relevant embassies or consulates and 2. the Canadian parliament, might also get some attention.

Get the attendance figures up high enough, and the noise levels loud enough, and get it happening often enough, and eventually a few journalists, perhaps first of all those from local radio and tv and newspapers, may find that their appetite for 'news!' overwhelms their PC scruples.

Have a look at what was done by those campaigning on behalf of the 'Refuseniks' of Soviet Russia.

You've made many good suggestions. All need to be tried.

I think the Toronto Copts were relying on the media to respond to reason, merit, and honesty. But sadly that's not how to get good publicity. They need to employ a good PR person.

Yes, I noticed the difference in tone, Copt compared to Muslim.

The Copts are asking that their people be spared from murder, rape, kidnapping, and forced conversion.

Muslims usually demand world domination, outrageous levels of "respect" and the forfeiting of rights by others.

Quite a contrast.

Yep, it's like "Let me people go" vs. "Bow to your overlords or die."

Dude, I respect your belief in Jesus and all, but I'm an indoctrinated atheist, who's trying to follow his blood ties and embrace Judaism. Long story short, my view is that, non-shall-pass-because-our-lord-said-so way of thinking seems as criminal as being an apologist. Our heads will be severed long before we're able to turn the second cheek...

What family are you referring to? Who told you that orthodox Christians refer to each other as "brothers"? You must be confusing black civil movement and muslim brotherhood with orthodox Christianity.

If I was a Copt, I'd definitely knock your lights out for claims of "Copts cheezy religios displays", followed by need to take "religious uncles and priests out of the organizational roles".

But hey, I'll leave it to you, the young American raised professional who can get his message across.

I would say that the main objective is to get as many warm bodies out onto the streets as possible.

Religious *and* irreligious/ nonreligious. Born-and-raised non-Muslims plus as many apostates from Islam as can be scratched up and are brave enough to appear in public - Nonie Darwish and Wafa Sultan probably know where to find them, whether they're atheists or, today, Christian believers. Christians from every branch of Christendom - for we're *all* being targeted by Jihad, whether we're Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican and every other conceivable stripe of Protestant. Jews of all descriptions, religious and nonreligious (hi, kozlodoev!), since qua Jew, whether practising or not, you're right at the top of the Jihadis' 'People To Kill' list. And, as you've observed, there are Hindus and Sikhs who know what is what and are prepared to show solidarity; this should be encouraged. Buddhists, too, since inoffensive Buddhist civilians have been murdered by the hundreds in southern Thailand in the past ten years.

And if people want to march under some kind of religious banner, let them. After all: the Rules for Dhimmis forbid the public display of non-Muslim faiths...processions, ringing of bells, singing of hymns, loud recitation of prayers, etc...so to do those things in public, in the course of a demonstration against Muslim abuse of non-Muslims, is quite appropriate, for it says very loudly, "We Are Not Dhimmis Any More". "We Will Not Shut Up".

(Indeed: I would suggest that in the lead-up to the next Copt rally, whichever city it takes place in, ALL Christian churches in the vicinity should be contacted, given the time of the rally, and asked to ring their bells at that time, in deliberate breach of the Rules for Dhimmis that forbid church bells and the ringing of same, and in solidarity with the Persecuted).

Kolozodev:

You know, I was standing next to Josephine as I was filming this and wanted to say that very thing: How different the vibe of this demonstration was from the pro-Hamas demonstration in front of the Israeli Consulate here in Toronto a year ago. That Palestinian demonstration seemed to be a hair's breadth from getting very ugly. This demonstration, as strident as it was, was also nowhere near turning bad. But I stopped short and said nothing. I thought the crowd was saying it all. Your comment confirms my hunch.

I estimated the crowd size to be around 2000. This is substantial fraction of a rather small Coptic community in Toronto. A substantial fraction on a very cold day (DDA says more than she means, perhaps, when she recommends that we get as many warm bodies as possible out to these demonstrations). And traffic on Yonge Street in one direction was blocked. Yet nary a squeek from the newspapers or electronic media (maybe a brief spot on CP24). Still, no worries. We'll keep trying as the public inevitably will start putting two and two together.

Have Mercy wrote:

I think the Copts should stop all the cheezy religious displays (by American standards) that are not productive in a modern secular country with even the conservative Christians minority are majority Protestants who are not accustomed to a bunch of Middle Eastern people dressed in religious costumes holding a mass in the street in a strange language.
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Have Mercy, one of the main points of this protest is that Copts do not have the right to practice religious freedom—"cheezy" or not—in their native Egypt. That they should be constrained from doing so as well in democratic Canada seems strange and cruel—as well as counter-productive.

The idea that cosmopolitan Toronto would be completely thrown by the spectacle of "a bunch of Middle Eastern people dressed in religious costumes holding a mass in the street in a strange language" seems an odd claim.

I know that your point is that the Copts should be at pains to make their cause as sympathetic and accessible as possible to mainstream Westerners—and I do agree, to a point.

I believe, though, that Dumbledore's Army has a more useful suggestion—that the suffering of the Copts under Islam be shown to be anything but unique, by having a large number of the other victims of Islam march with them. Now, that would be diversity in action.

When I refereed to family members I referred to my father, uncle, siblings and cousins along with other relatives who attended. I am an atheist Copt who believes that the religious guys in charge are totally mismanaging the effort. Worst yet, some of them act as servants of the Egyptian governments even though they have American citizenship and are routinely summoned to the Egyptian consulate to take orders from Egyptian government personnel. Some priests do not even allow anyone to discuss the situation in Egypt on church grounds or exchange information on the condition of their brethren. They totally ignore their plight of our suffering brothers and sisters in their sermons.

You belong the group that Capitalized the most on their blight to gain political sympathy for their cause. I belong to the just about the worst group in doing so.

Also, as I Copt it saddens me to see incompetent people monopolizing leadership. And many young Copts think the old folks are cheesy. Due to thousands of years of close relationship and even blood ties with the Greeks, calling them brothers is not out of order.

When I refereed to family members I referred to my father, uncle, siblings and cousins along with other relatives who attended. I am an atheist Copt who believes that the religious guys in charge are totally mismanaging the effort. Worst yet, some of them act as servants of the Egyptian governments even though they have American citizenship and are routinely summoned to the Egyptian consulate to take orders from Egyptian government personnel. Some priests do not even allow anyone to discuss the situation in Egypt on church grounds or exchange information on the condition of their brethren. They totally ignore their plight of our suffering brothers and sisters in their sermons.

You belong the group that Capitalized the most on their blight to gain political sympathy for their cause. I belong to the just about the worst group in doing so.

Also, as I Copt it saddens me to see incompetent people monopolizing leadership. And many young Copts think the old folks are cheesy. Due to thousands of years of close relationship and even blood ties with the Greeks, calling them brothers is not out of order.