Zachariah Matthews argues that "'Sharia law could function as a parallel system in the same way that some traditional Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander law was recognised in the Northern Territory." But there's a crucial difference: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander laws are not part of a totalitarian, supremacist system that doesn't lend itself to compartmentalization, revision, and reform. As such, the introduction of any Sharia starts down a slippery slope leading to more Sharia.
Given Sharia's inherent flaws regarding human rights, gender equality, and equality before the law, implementing it in any form would defeat the purpose of equal protection under one body of laws for all Australians. It would also open the door to coercion to "opt out" of the Australian system in favor of Sharia, stacking the deck against women and children who may be attempting to flee from abuse.
"Muslim leader wants elements of sharia in Australia," by Paul Bibby for the Sydney Morning Herald, March 8 (thanks to all who sent this in):
Elements of Islamic law - the sharia - should be legally recognised in Australia so that Muslims can live according their faith, a prominent Muslim leader says.
Addressing an open day at Lakemba Mosque on Saturday, the president of the Australian Islamic Mission, Zachariah Matthews, said parts of sharia could be recognised as a secondary legal system so that Muslims were not forced to act contrary to their beliefs. ''Sharia law could function as a parallel system in the same way that some traditional Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander law was recognised in the Northern Territory,'' Dr Matthews told the Herald after the session.
''I don't think we are so unsophisticated that we cannot consider a multilayered legal system as long as it doesn't conflict with the existing civil system.''
The comments shocked some attending the open day. They felt Dr Matthews was advocating the introduction of the penal system under which women have been stoned to death for adultery, and corporal punishment is meted out for some offences.
''It came as quite a shock to some non-Muslims in the crowd when sharia law and the idea of a parallel legal system was mentioned,'' one audience member, Jasmine Donnelly, said.
''One group of people just left straight after that.''
But Dr Matthews said he was referring only to certain elements of family law and inheritance law and was not advocating the sharia penal system.
''I wasn't talking about sharia law in its entirety - we are not calling for the introduction of the penal system which calls for cutting off hands,'' he said.
At least he acknowledges that much. Nevertheless, "just a little peril," in the words of Michael Palin's Sir Galahad, should not be an option. Indeed, even his own example is problematic:
Dr Matthews said a clash occurred in some custody matters. ''Under sharia law, if a couple divorce and the mother remarries, her former husband has the right to decide whether the children will live with the new husband or not,'' Dr Matthews said.
''There is still a preference for the child to go with the mother, but the father has the ultimate decision.
''This does not exist in Australian law but I do not believe it clashes fundamentally with Australian values or the Australian legal system.''
Sure it does. The divorced father is not an impartial arbiter. For that matter, custody decisions in the West consider the best interests of the children, not the self-interest of the father.
This is an attempt to put a seemingly innocuous Sharia wedge in the legal door. If that succeeds, the next steps will be Sharia "arbitration" courts. They will all, of course, initially be "subordinate" to Australian law. Once accepted, however, that situation would change to seeking the dominance of Sharia over Australian law.
Australia does not have a multi-layered legal system. It is based on the original UK legal system - substantial parts of which have also even been adopted by the US.
Kuffar_England,
I know from my conversations that some aspects of muslim legality in their lives are just dealt with by themselves in the UK. I believe these may be using aspects of something they call "shar-ia".
They don't have expensive legal fees to pay, aspects of English law does not cover muslim custom; they just kinda sort things out amongst themselves.
To my mind this just makes life easier all round and efficient.
If any party is unhappy with what's going on; they can still go to back to the (expensive) law of the land.
I really don't see a problem here; Australia I think will benifit from this.
Ah yes, Shariah- what "elements" shall Australians live under? Stoning adulteresses to death? Cutting the hands off thieves? Ordering the execution of"blasphemers" or "apostates"?
Comparisons to Catholic Diocesan Marriage Tribunals or Jewish Beth Dins(rabbinical courts) are disingenous- both explicitly are restricted to their religions and claim no jurisdiction over "unbelievers" but a few years back a self styled "Sharia Court of the UK" isssued a "death sentence" for a playwright, Terence McNally for alleged "blasphemous" activities. If Australian Muslims want to live under Shariah- there is a simple solution-emigrate en masse to Pakistan, Iran or Saudi Arabia!
Terry
No buyers.
Apart from a few pop tarts and a few Mohammedan agit props there are no buyers for sharia downunder. Check the comments:
Solution: emigrate to lands where your preferred laws run
andrew bolt
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/solution_emigrate_to_lands_where_your_preferred_laws_rule/
An update on the kumbaya fest in Lakemba, the epicenter of catmeat sheik Taj din al Hilali’s proselytizing efforts: Lakemba, the place to be: Interfaith & kumbaya galore…
http://sheikyermami.com/2010/03/07/sharia-in-australia/
'I really don't see a problem here; Australia I think will benefit from this.'
++++++++++
You are so wrong.
Our justice system is expensive but this can be worked upon by citizens.
Once sharia courts are allowed to exist by the govt of any country, women from muslim households are forced to go to sharia courts by their own family members for settling their grievances. And these women get such a raw deal from those self-styled judges.
No. Sharia courts are just plain bad news for women.
And I am writing this on 8th March - Women's day.
Camel. Nose. Tent.
You will observe that, judging by his surname, this creature who calls so slyly and demurely for Muslims to be permitted to practise 'aspects' of shari'a law - aspects that, as Marisol has pointed out, directly contradict Australian law, which is based on English common law - is *a convert to Islam*.
TRAITOR.
I applaud those who were there - presumably, Aussie Infidels - who upon hearing this, got up in disgust and walked out.
But it might have been better had some well-informed and well-prepared Aussie Infidels remained there, to pin to the wall this deplorable convert and any other Muslim spokespersons there present, re. such unpleasant topics as the explicit shari'a permission of and explicit approval expressed for - inter alia - marital rape, beating of wives, polygyny, marriage to (and nonconsensual sex with) underage girls, the fact that in shari'a the age at which a girl may be bedded as well as wedded is NINE YEARS (whether she has even attained menarche or not), the non-punishment of parents who kill their own children, talaq divorce, the fact that men do not have to pay alimony to a divorced wife, and so on, and so forth.
Here is the Aussie ABC news 'take' on this revealing incident, with a few extra, piquant details...such as his sly and sinister dwelling upon the desirability of lowering the marriageable age.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/08/2839749.htm?section=justin
"When it comes to Muslim family law there are issues relating to the legal age of marriage," he said. {Yeah, suure there are: come on, Mr Convert-to-Islam Matthews, tell us right out, just how old Aisha was when Mohammed the Perfect Man had marital relations with her for the first time - dda}.
"In Muslim law, for example, as in Singapore, the legal age for both parties is 16 rather than as it stands currently [at] 18." {Hmmm: he's lying. He's a convert to Islam. He's been, very cleverly, chosen as spokesperson at the Mosque. He's just trying to push the boundaries; to suggest that Australia should reconsider how old is old enough; someone should have called him on this one}.
And we know what to think about *this* statement - "Dr Matthews says the minor changes proposed would only apply to Muslims" - because we've seen what's happened in Aceh and in northern Nigeria.
Again, from the ABC report, he seemingly said, "are we [Australians] not mature enough or sophisticated enough to manage that type of diversity?"
So, presumably we are to be dismissed as immature and unsophisticated if we correctly condemn Muslim 'family' and divorce 'law' as cruel, stupid, unjust and woman-hating.
Sheik
thanks for those extra links. Yep, to judge from most of those comments, nobody's buyin' it.
I urge all Australian jihadwatchers here present to fire off letters pronto: each of us to our Federal MP, plus suitable letters to the Prime Minister, the Leader of the Opposition, Attorney-General, Shadow Attorney-General, and whoever else we think needs to 'get the message' (I have a Senator or two in mind). We must let them know loud and clear that what we want to hear from them is NO, NO, and NO, to *any* aspect of shari'a, *especially* as regards 'family law'.
Let it be known, too, that *votes* hang in the balance.
The Barnabas Fund's free booklet about Shari'a, and their extremely cheap but accurate and easy to read booklet, "Understanding Shari'a Finance? The Muslim Challenge to Western Economics" [which includes a handy appendix that lifts the lid on shari'a in general, with a section summarising "five main areas in which shari'a is incompatible with human rights"] might also profitably be sent by each of us to our particular elected representative...and to those who are preparing to try to unseat him or her at the next election.
Sorry Mr Barcode but as an Australian I have to disagree.
There is no benefit to sharia anywhere in the west. Give an inch and they'll take a mile.
The vast majority of muslims here are on some sort of welfare and are entitled to legal aid as a result so your only argument about cost benefit is void.
There are far more Buddhists in Australia (or Hindus for that matter) but once again the only minority seeking preference is the muslims.
Barcode: "If any party is unhappy with what's going on; they can still go to back to the (expensive) law of the land. I really don't see a problem here; Australia I think will benifit from this."
The quran states, "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them;" [sura 4:34]
That is what family and inheritance law, under the sharia, is based upon.
Do you honestly believe muslim women can just 'go back to the law of the land' if sharia law ruling makes her unhappy?
Do you really see no problem with women being abused and subjugated in a free society?
Does that really benefit Australia, to have women subjected to an unfair legal system that supports her husband's 'right' to beat her into submission if she dares to object to sharia rulings?
Inexpensive, maybe. For the males. Certainly not justice.
Clearly, you have no understanding of sharia law or islam. It is such cluelessness and ignorance that gives the violent, intolerant, misogynistic islamic cult such a strong foothold in free Western societies.
If you think sharia will 'benefit' any Western country, I'm sure you'd have no problems subjecting yourself or your loved ones to the same. Move to a sharia country for a few months, then come back and let us know how wonderful it is.
How unlike Muslims to want to change nations - not. There is no place safe from these sly colonialists. Aussies are decent folk willing to give new-comers the opportunity to work hard, pay their dues and build up the Australian nation: I don't think for one minute, they will fall for this con-trick.
I read this article this morning and noticed that yes, at least the guy admits sharia law permits the amputation of limbs. However, it is a slippery slope to allow it in any way, shape or form. For Muslims throughout history, they've never had just one part of sharia law. It comes in a package.
What this guy presents is the "ok-Australia-let's-have-the-'nice'-elements-of-Sharia-law-as-part-of-the-Australian- legal-system-and-it-will-be-all-sweet" in order to get the sharia wedge through the door. Coupled with some taqiyya and "blame-the-infidel-by-calling-them-racist-if-they-attempt-to-show-how-sharia-law-is-incompatible-with-the-Australian-legal-system,-democracy-and-human-rights", they think they will inevitably get their way.
No way. They won't.
And Barcode really needs to experience Sharia law in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Somalia and Sudan for 25 years (as Ayaan Hirsi Ali did for so long) in order to realise the barbarity of this "law". It can not and will not be a part of Australia's legal system.
From the article: ''One group of people just left straight after that.''
Good on those people - I'd like to give them all a medal.
I went to hear Mark Durie talk tonight, and bought a few more copies of his book to pass around. In his book ("The Third Choice") he mentions this Matthews man:
"On Friday 20/3/01, Zachariah Matthews, a prominent Australian Muslim youth leader, presented a lecture to the Muslim Society at the University of Western Sydney. His subject was the proper method of establishing Islam in the lands of immigration. He argued that it was necessary to adhere to principles derived from the example of Muhammed's Hijrah 'migration' to Medina, since 'The Prophetic Method of Dawah is the only method that will bring us success.' Matthews listed six 'Hijrah Management Principles', which
were based upon episodes in Muhammed's life. Of these the third was 'secrets should be hidden' and the sixth 'deception is necessary'.
Matthews also proposed a principle "that it can be necessary to apply a 'need to know' basis for revealing the plans of Islam, even to Muslims".
Even Muslims don't know what he has in store for them. They might be in for a nasty surprise if they help him get this tiny little bit of Sharia up and running. They might end up with some Sharia they don't like very much...
Note:
This "Barcode" pest is not to be taken seriously; he's a liar, a fraud, muslim-troll.
Please, Australia, don't buy into this!
Are the immigrant-muslims having trouble living by your established civil order?
Then, rather than ask host-countries to change for THEM and THEM only...they need to take the most efficient solution: LEAVE! Go Home!
Ask them the question: "What are you doing here, anyway? What's your contribution to our society that entitles you to even ASK for exceptions? Have you considered that even the suggestion is an insult to good citizens here?
It's really quite simple: You're in our country. This is how we do things. There are countries who do things your way. And there are flights out-of here every day. Can't live in our society? No one's begging you to stay. ADIOS!"
Read the comments for how Aussies feel about this issue.
Not happy that's for sure!
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/solution_emigrate_to_lands_where_your_preferred_laws_rule/P20/
"This "Barcode" pest is not to be taken seriously; he's a liar, a fraud, muslim-troll."
Yes.
People, "Barcode," from the UK, claims he's not a Muslim and has only a "passing interest" in Islam.
Those are lies. Anyone can see he's a Muslim, a convert, and is greatly interested in the rotten and evil belief system he has chosen for whatever pathological reason(s).
When it was suggested that some aspects of sharia be introduced into Ontario, Canada, it was muslim women who protested the most, and who were instrumental in having the suggestion thoroughly quashed.
carpediadem,
Thank you for that link! It looks more like a JW blog--those folks are having none of it--and they're torqued at the very suggestion.
Proud people standing-up for their culture & speaking the truth! Bravo, mates!
G
ARE YOU STUPID OR WHAT?
Easy law! Cheap law. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE!
JUSTICE FOR ALL. THE ****SAME JUSTICE***** FOR ALL IS THE ONLY ANSWER!!
MODERN LAW! SMART AND FAIR LAWS BASED ON DEMOCRACY AND THE CHRISTIAN-JUDEO LAWS!!
"Sharia the Camel's" NOSE or ASS under the tent and oops there goes the whole tent.
Nope, not gonna' happen there AHMED! Now go clean up sink- hole toilet.
I KNOW you are on the WRONG website site.
Go post that on one of YOUR moslem's buddies places where they spew that stinky islamic crap!
I do not like you and have no respect for you at all,
PLEASE DO TAKE THIS PERSONALLY!
First of all, the argument that the Aboriginals have their own laws is COMPLETELY not applicable and superbly moronic. Aboriginals were the original "owners" of Australia and have every right to their own lands and rules. Kind of like Native Americans here in America, they are the "Nation-within-the-Nation." islame wasn't first ANYWHERE (thus their scandalous usurping claim that the Jewish prophets were muslim)! Those musselmen immigrants have no ground to stand on with this imperfect piece of logic.
Second of all, a little shari'a goes a long way to the greater submission of the general population. Just say NO Australia!!
Sewsalot,
Can I help on that first question? LOL!!
Let's see, so far I've called "Barcode" a liar, a fraud, a muslim-apologist, an ignoramous, and an imbecile. (I may have left one out, there!) And that doesn't even start into Darcy's and other folks's descriptions! And he's more than lived-up to these assessments!
But, I think we may have inadvertantly left-out STUPID! Thank you for filling-in the blank!
G
"I wasn't talking about sharia law in its entirety" he said.
When I hear statements like that, I instantly think of the parable about the camel and the tent.
Just let the camel's nose in out of the storm, and within a short time the entire animal will be the tent.
Any time islam implements any part of sharia law, the rest does and will follow, firstly they will call for seperate courts for civil, then for criminal, then the full wieght of sharia will be imposed and 98.3% of the Australian population will become 2nd class citizens. No deal islam, if you want sharia there are 52 other countries which have sharia, get a ticket get on a plane and leave and never come back.
Screw Muslims! I'll fight to the death resisting you pricks.
Screw Muslims! I'll fight to the death resisting you pricks.
I will never kow tow to a Muslim! You killers! You scum!
Hey Muslims! Stay in your desert. Stay out of my world!
Yeah, Barcode. Easier for the MEN. But for the uneducated muslima and her children, well it's just a dupe.
But that's always the solution through islame, submission or getting a beating, backed up by shari'a.
The modern western world has overcome harsh religious laws with the sweat and blood of our predecessors. We truly do want inclusion of all, equality for all, but not to the exclusion of ourselves. Got it?
The world needs progression, not regression to 1600 years ago. Just say NO to shari'a. Just say NO to islame. Simple as that.
Barcode guy is a typical MoSlum, my guess he is from Pakistan or Pakistani parents. Someone thinks he is living in the UK. He said he has a passing interest in Islam and he is not a MoSlum - eazy to dispute that - he would be more inclined to go along with us, instead he keeps on harping and depending Islam at the slightest opportunity. He said he has interest in MoSlum girls because he works with them - since when MoSlum girls are allowed in a workplace with infidels? When you read his comments - for instance - "I believe these may be using aspects of something they call "shar-ia". " - he is obviously trying to pretend he is an innocent bystander at the same time firing away ammo at the correct moments and places!
Barcode, go and take your deception someplace else and insert it in the place where the Sun doesn't shine.
You have more ammo than that, right John?
It was just a matter of time for this call to become overt. Australia has approximately a 1.8% Muslim population. Perhaps that is a critical mass for this to happen?
Tariq Ramadan visited New Zealand several years ago, in part government sponsored, and had several opportunities to make this call before a largely Muslim audience, but didn't. He expressed the view that so long as the laws and institutions did not require Muslims to go against their beliefs there was no need to seek to change the status quo.
Neighbouring New Zealand, with a roughly similar situation regarding Maoris, has had no overt calls for any sharia implementation.
New Zealand has about a 1.0 Muslim population. Significant?
Barcode is just the latest apologist for evil to soil these boards. Like the rest of them, he's a Muslim parasite who wants deporting to Pakistan pronto, where he can see his beloveed Sharia in action.
Muslim Barcode ...
You aren't fooling anyone with your schtick, so quit with the charade.
You may come across all sweet 'n innocent, when in fact you are just as EVIL as any other overt islamist, so we know better. And you pretend that you're here to "learn" about islam, but your cover has been blown, so I'm afraid that you've been exposed.
Cover your eyes everyone, Mr Barcode has been caught with his pants down -- again! ...yeah it's like watching the town fool casually walking through town naked saying, "Hey, I am not naked, I am not naked" ...over, and over again.
O, please! ...we can all see that you're a muslim for crying out loud, so enough already, MrBSCode.
If muslims make a request for sharia in my country, I will fight it with everything I've got because as some of you pointed out they have a "give them an inch they want a foot" mentality. They don't call it "creeping sharia" for nothing.
Any muslim who must live under sharia in order to practice their faith is free to do so in the middle eastern country of their choice. Don't even think you'll change the rules in my country to suit your evil ideology.
If you're not happy with the freedoms & privileges & resources & general free ride you experience here, you are free to leave. .....The sooner the better.
There was a "debate" raised about this topic of Sharia in Australia a few months ago (actually, it pops up now and then). A man from the Islamic Council was making a push - similar stuff, "poor women, thay need a proper divorce so they can remarry"; newspapers wrote aricles with great respect("There are arguments on both sides, but really, why not?", that kind of thing).
What worried me was that the man was given the time of day by a government minister. Here in Victoria, we have a left-liberal government which is in love with "minorities". Just like the British government, I believe they want to "rub our noses in diversity". They spend a fortune on multiculturalism.
So it is being discussed at high levels. It is not an isuue of "Go home if you don't like it here". They are here to get what they want, and will push for Sharia patiently from time to time until they get it. The government will oblige them, over our wishes.
So we have to be vigilant, and let the government know that we can get pretty strident when it comes to stealth jihad via minority "rights".
Marisol! Another great score for you! You have opened up a new chapter in the ongoing Muslim invasion of the civilized world - CREEPING JIHAD. This is something we all need to be aware of. I don't think it will make much difference - the savages will still conquer us as we have become too effete to produce families of sufficient size to populate for long-lastingness, but at least we who are intelligent enough to see what is coming will have informed company to chat with while we watch the creeping jihad slowly remove one freedom after another until our very selves are removed. I hope my self (another word for 'soul") is the last to go so I can see and understand how such a primitive philosophy can so rapidly and completely replace democracy and freedom of thought and speech.
"Sharia" isn't a 'law' in the Western sense as it's not subject to modification through legislation,it mainly consists of the imbedded prejudices of 7th century tribal patriarchs.Consequently Sharia 'law',like the 'laws' of the Old Testament, can't be incorporated into Western liberal democratic systems. I agree with some other comments here-this call for Sharia law is the first stage of Islamic separation from civilized host societies,under the cloak of the pernicious doctrine of 'multiculturalism'.
"Someone thinks he is living in the UK."
Yes, Muslim-convert Barcode lives in the UK.
"Barcode, go and take your deception someplace else and insert it in the place where the Sun doesn't shine." - BlueRaven
Exactly. Go live in Yemen, barcode. Good Riddance.
It's interesting in that some people outside of Australia may be concerned that this will be taken seriously. As an Australian, my opinion is that it is not. No legislator, or non-muslim relgious leader, has said anything positive regarding the implementation of Shariah law in Australia. I take the same view. One law for all people, otherwise, the idea of equality under the law, as is supposed to exist in our democracy, is meaningless.
Funnily, there are many societies which contain elements of, or wholly implement, Shariah law. Egypt, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Indonesia.....and the list goes on.
My question is, why did you, the Shariah loving Muslim, leave those countries to come to Australia, only to change Australia into the place you left. Makes no sense.
Thankyou Zachariah Matthews for bringing up the idea of implementing Shariah law in Australia. Now please explain to the Anglo-Saxon people ALL aspects of Shariah law, the law of your religion.....not just the benign parts regarding inheritance and the like. Maybe start with the apostate laws, and dealing with homosexuals....and jews.......yes, please explain!!!
§New Zealand has about a 1.0 Muslim population. Significant?" -
Lets see, it would be significant if it was true because the NZ population is about 4.4 Mil. That means 25% are MoSlums according to you, right!
Thank GOD, you are caught pants down- the Moslum population of NZ is staggering 36,000 based on a Governmental document called "qstats-about-culture-and-identity-2006-census.pdf".
MBR - I guess you meant 1% of NZ pops are MoSlums. It is really 0.8%. My apology, I mis-read 1 Mil MoSlums in your posting. You are nearly right, though on the higher side.
Yes.
Something else should be pointed out, too. Aboriginal Australian society, whether it is mostly 'assimilated' or maintains some traditional customs, collides head-on with Shari'a in eight main areas.
1. Love of Dogs. *All* Aboriginal groups *love* dogs and keep them as pets. Tasmanian Aborigines didn't have dogs until Europeans arrived - but even in the midst of full-on guerilla warfare with the invaders, they still noticed and fell in love with the Europeans' dogs, swiftly managed to beg, trade for or steal pups, and worked out how to train them. It's a major testament to the affinity between dogs and humans, that a group of humans who had been without dogs for some ten thousand years at least, could re-form the relationship so fast.
2. Uncovered meat! In traditional times, of course, both men and women went basically nude (possum cloaks or kangaroo-skin cloaks were worn in cold weather, in southern regions). Today, they wear the same sorts of thoroughly-unislamic clothing (e.g. shorts, bikinis) as other non-Muslim Australians.
3. Pork. There is no ban on pigs in Aboriginal culture; pork - like beef and mutton - as soon as introduced was swiftly identified as good tasty tucker.
4. Alcohol. There were some groups who in pre-colonial times enjoyed some kind of fermented drink (e.g. made from the sugary sap of the cider gum, which ferments very easily and swiftly once tapped); and European grog of all kinds was - sometimes with tragic effects - adopted. There *is* a problem with alcohol abuse; but there are many smart Aboriginal campaigners trying to fix that, and what they seem to be aiming for is an outcome like that in the more sensible 'white' families: that is, some choose not to drink (but don't try to force others not to), some choose to drink in moderation (but don't force others to drink), and women prudently stay off the stuff during pregnancy and lactation, in order to protect baby. It's in the 'health' category rather than the 'religion' category. Aboriginal Catholics and Anglicans have no qualms about partaking of the communion wine; and the aboriginal community of Murrin Bridge set up their own winery, grape vines and all, some years ago, and have been doing quite well. No other tribe has censured them for it.
5. Music. ALL traditional Aboriginal groups were hugely into music sacred and profane, vocal and instrumental (along with dance); the traditional song cycles are quite spectacular and of great complexity. Those who could compose songs were honoured, everywhere; good songs were actively traded and taught across linguistic boundaries. Aboriginal Australians took to European music - of every kind - like ducks to water and can be found today doing everything from pop to rock to gospel to country-and-western to musical theatre to opera, and doing it very well. Much more needs to be done to inform Aboriginal Australians about the severe Islamic shari'a strictures on music, and Islam's historic suppression of music, in order to help immunise them against Muslim da'wa artists.
6. Visual arts. Shari'a bans the visual representation of humans and animals; whereas Aboriginal tribes revelled (and revel) in it. Google 'Wandjina', 'Quinkan' 'X-ray art', 'Bradshaw figures' 'Gwion-Gwion', 'Mootawintjee', 'Burrup Peninsula rock engravings' 'Sydney region rock art' (just for starters) to start to get some idea of the enormous variety of visual representation of living beings - humans, animals, spirit beings - that characterised pre-European Aboriginal art right across Australia. Even in Tasmania there are rock engravings depicting animals such as emu. Aboriginal Australians very quickly got cottoned onto European materials and methods for painting, drawing, etc - google 'William Barak' for an early example of this - and there are many, many Aboriginal artists active today, painting and drawing in both traditional and European styles.
Again, Aboriginal people in Australia need to be warned that strict Muslims see it as a religious duty, ultimately, to DESTROY such things as the Wandjina paintings and that the Muslim dream is to impose shari'a worldwide...thus forbidding all painting of humans or animals, worldwide, forever.
7. Sculpture. The Torres Strait Islanders and a number of mainland tribes do very clever sculptures of people, animals and spirit beings, both in traditional and in European style. Islam, of course, forbids sculpture.
8. Marriage. Traditional society was polygamous but I've never heard any contemporary Aboriginal woman, whatever her background, evince any interest whatever in going back to the old ways; indeed, I *have* heard one little old lady, whose group came out of the desert in the 1960s, upon being asked what she liked best among the new things they'd been introduced to as a result, giggling and picking Monogamy, the custom of one man-one wife - because, as she explained, it meant women didn't have a co-wife to make their life miserable. And even in traditional times, Aboriginal culture still differed drastically from the Islamic in that marriage of first cousins - very prevalent and actively preferred and encouraged in Muslim societies as far apart as Arabia and Pakistan - was strengst verboten. Traditional Aboriginal people would be SHOCKED by Saudi first-cousin marriage: in Aboriginal society, for a man to marry his father's brother's daughter would be seen as his committing incest with his sister.
I believe this story smells like creeping shariah and the Australians should have NOTHING to do with it! If these muslims can't abide by Australian law, they need to LEAVE THE COUNTRY! PERIOD !
I believe this story smells like creeping shariah and the Australians should have NOTHING to do with it! If these muslims can't abide by Australian law, they need to LEAVE THE COUNTRY! PERIOD !
Yes, the percent sign was missing.
http://www.pupr.edu/hkettani/papers/HICAH2010.pdf gives 0.90%.
I was being lazy, working on 40,000 in 4 million. As for most Western countries, the graph projections for the next 10 years are not a pretty sight.
Lovely post DDA!! I always learn so much here at JW...
Thank you~lorfalcon
dda (and others): Unfortunately Aborigines are being converted in fairly large numbers in NW Australia (Kakadu). I heard about this from a man with a friend in Broome. Apparently the Muslims converting them are rather interested in "Land Rights" details and Social Security money - as well, of course, as the Aborigines' souls. I have found nothing on the internet about this but he assured me some sinister(da'wa)work is being successfully done on the Aborigines: the men, of course.
Could this beautiful part of Australia be in the sights of Muslims as theirs, via Native Title? Do you know anything about this?
Broome is northwest, but surely you know Kakadu is northeast, in Arnhem Land not the Kimberley.
I haven't heard that Aborigines are being converted to Islam "in fairly large numbers".
I support CMS and BCA (Bush Church Aid) [who have some work taking off amongst Aboriginal people both in NW New South Wales and also in the Kimberley and Pilbara] and the Bible Society and keep an eye on the work of SIL/ Wycliffe Bible Translators in Australia, as well, and hear a fair bit about ongoing Christian activity amongst Aboriginal people, Bible translation, etc. I hear that the Kriol Bible has proven pretty popular in a huge swathe of country from Cape York right across to the Pilbara and down through the Red Centre; when the Bible Society was making the Kriol Bible they thought they had a potential audience of some 30 000, but it seems it's turned out to be bigger than that: there are many, many more people more comfortable in Kriol (as their first or second language) than in standard English, than they thought there were.
I wouldn't throw up my hands in despair and decide that Aboriginal people are all going to become Muslims and there's nothing to be done about it.
If you are worried, and have some data, why don't you write a letter to CMS, Bible Society, Bush Church Aid, and the AIM and AEF (Aborigines' Inland Mission and Aboriginal Evangelical Fellowship) to warn them to be on the lookout for Muslim da'wa artists?
Given the impact of the Kriol Bible and some other things that are happening, I find it equally - if not more - likely that a Christian revival might break out across Aboriginal Australia. Pray for *that*! Don't let the Enemy 'assume the sale'.
I would concur with dumbledoresarmy's informed and informing posts. The most significant conversion of Aboriginals is not occurring in any Aboriginal social or tribal group anywhere where there is a significant Aboriginal population. It is occurring with some significance ONLY among the prison inmates, in which Aboriginals or over-represented by a factor of tens times at least that of their percentage of the general Australian population.
This has been documented at one of NSW's major maximum security jails in Goulburn. There are many similarities to Islamic conversions in the prison systems of the US and the UK but on a far smaller scale. The percentage of converts even among the Aboriginal inmate population, although in some prisons significant, for the moment it is still small. As dumbledoresarmy points out, there are NO relative parallels in Aboriginal society. Wherever Aboriginal society and culture exists, there is little chance of da'wa succeeding. It is only in the unnatural society of the prison system amongst socially alienated and antipathetic inmates that it has seen any measure of success.
Hi DDA, I just wanted to say thanks and congratulations for the wonderful posts above, enlightening, as always.
I had some old, old Aussie mates visiting me here in Hong Kong recently for a week or so. Of course, over time, we got onto the issue of Islamic -- I think they were rather startled that my bookshelf is almost all matters Islam.... They reckoned that, in Oz, we didn't need to worry about "Stealth", or any other encroachment of Islam, because Aussies would just tell them to go stick it. Male mate reminded me that Paul Keating (as PM?) had said something pretty sound along lines of "if you want to live here, you have to buy into our system", or some such words. Female mate was interested in learning more about Islam, what to read off my bookshelf and which blogs to read and I set her straight on that. Some of the comments in the Aussie media in response to the Sharia suggestion above might indicate that indeed Aussies will stand up to creeping Sharia.
On the other hand, I wonder if there's not been somewhat of a divergence in recent months/years: that the bloggers and commentators have become more learned and sound on the danger of Islam -- so that we see, for example, comments critical of dhimmi articles, even in leftie papers such as the Guardian -- while the MSM and pollies have become ever more craven in their excusing of even the most egregious aspects of Islam. Or is that just my imagination?
Re my old mates: I'll have to make sure they're tuned into this report and the comments thereon, to make sure that the "go stick it" attitude to ridiculous suggestions like this one are strengthened.
BTW: haven't seen anyone refer to the "One Law For All" coalition in the UK. They're anti Sharia and have lot of respectable membership/support -- ie not right-wing loonies, or fringe elements. And their beef is that Sharia is bad for both women and children. Simple message: it's bad for women and children. That message ought to stop it dead. (I say "ought"....)
Exclusive: Jasper Hamill
Published on 7 Mar 2010
A Scottish law firm has become the first in the country to offer clients “conventional” legal representation alongside advice on sharia law.
Hamilton Burns, based in Glasgow’s south side, has teamed up with an eminent Muslim scholar who will counsel clients on the Islamic aspect of civil law cases, while solicitors give advice under Scots law.
Read more: http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/scots-lawyers-lead-way-with-sharia-advice-1.1011640
When I said "NW Australia" I meant the NW of Australia, not the NW of Western Australia! That story about conversions was not a verified story, which was why I was asking - but it sounded plausible considering what I had heard about jail conversions and also about black Americans' conversions from Muslims persuading them that Christianity was a "white man's, racist" religion and so on.
I never throw my hands up in despair, but I do try to follow up rumours which, given the history of Islam, are often "strange but true". My friend assured me that it was true, and if it is, we will see.
Meeker, as for your Aussie friends "reckoning" stealth jihad will not happen in Australia, I believe that attitude is more an indication of the "she'll be right" mentality here than anything else.
It was Peter Costello, not Keating, who said "If you want Sharia law, go somewhere else" or some similar thing, but he is gone now, and our current PM is overseeing the introduction of "ethical" Sharia banking, and the virtually free entry of Muslim "asylum seekers". As you know, Islamic infiltration is multi-faceted and backed by great determination and, presently, confidence. Furthermore, Australia is now made up of many migrant groups. I have only met one Chinese person, for instance, who knows or cares about Muslim infiltration. Are such people here to defend Australia in any way? This is one of the beauties of multiculturalism, for Muslim infiltraters: they can hide amongst all the MC chaos. I am not saying they will necessarily succeed in Islamizing Australia, but it won't be as easy as your friends think to counter their zeal.
Here in Victoria, we have a left-liberal government which is in love with "minorities".
What Western government doesn't have that, these days? The various beleaguered outsider politicians trying to change that are routinely labeled as "far right" and "fascists" -- while most of the genuine fascists are joining hands with the Muslims because they know where the wellsprings of a real fascist potential for the future is! Meanwhile, Muslims are protected as "victims" of this sinister, nascent "fascism" from non-existent white racists.
This is one of the beauties of multiculturalism, for Muslim infiltraters: they can hide amongst all the MC chaos. I am not saying they will necessarily succeed in Islamizing Australia, but it won't be as easy as your friends think to counter their zeal.
Exactly. Muslims are perceived to be one more Ethnic People in the wonderful diversity of the world-wide mosaic of Ethnic Peoples. As such, Muslims are automatically accorded extra buffers from criticism, with penalties for whites who dare to criticize them too much. The very act of carefully trying, with due attention to the complexity of facts, to extricate Muslims as a unique problem independent of all other ethnic peoples -- this very act by itself is perceived as an attack on an ethnic people -- and probably the most vulnerable one now, Muslims, since Muslims are the ones attracting the most critical attention, which they themselves have caused, but this cannot be thought: it is the thought process of a "bigot" and a "hater" and an "Islamophobe".
''I don't think we are so unsophisticated that we cannot consider a multilayered legal system as long as it doesn't conflict with the existing civil system.''
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Yes—after all, what could possibly be more "sophisticated" than lapidation? Oh, or course, stoning wouldn't be instituted at first—no, they'd have the Aussies get used to the less-obviously malignant elements first, those that are merely misogynistic, for instance, like the father alone determining where the children will live.
The meretricious Mr. Barcode wrote:
They don't have expensive legal fees to pay, aspects of English law does not cover muslim custom; they just kinda sort things out amongst themselves.
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You mean like honor killings? That's certainly an example of of Muslims just "kinda sorting things out amongst themselves".