And such a challenge would likely fall on deaf ears anyway, given the "Muslim view" that birth defects arising from such marriages are "a consequence of Allah's will, and they may therefore approach it with fatalism."
"Rise in marriages between cousins 'is putting children's health at risk,'" by Frances Gibb in The Times, March 20 (thanks to Kris):
The dangers of marriage between first cousins are to be highlighted by a leading professor, with a warning that their children are at risk of genetic defects.Baroness Deech, a family law professor and crossbencher, will call next week for a "vigorous" public campaign to deter the practice, which is prevalent in Muslim and immigrant communities and on the rise. She will reignite a debate started five years ago when Ann Cryer, MP for Keighley, drew attention to the number of disabled babies being born in the town and called for cousin marriage to be stopped.
Fifty-five per cent of British Pakistanis are married to first cousins and in Bradford the figure is 75 per cent. British Pakistanis represent 3 per cent of all births in Britain but one third of children with recessive disorders. [...]
"The local estimate was that 75 per cent of Bradford disabled children had cousin parents and the rate of cousin marriage in the UK Pakistani community is increasing," Lady Deech will say. [...]
Yet there are cultural differences or ignorance about disabled children, she says. Women may be blamed in some minority cultures for being childless or having disabled children; while the "Muslim view . . . is that it is a consequence of Allah's will, and they may therefore approach it with fatalism". [...]
She says: "There is no reason, one could argue, why there should not be a campaign to highlight the risks and the preventative measures, every bit as vigorous as those centring on smoking, obesity and Aids." While there was reluctance to "target or upset Muslims over cousin-marriage issues" the practice was not mandated by religion, only permitted, so it is not at heart a religious issue, she argues....
Could this be the explanation of why appealing to common sense has no currency among Muslims generally?
So, "Islam is bad for your health". We have the above, then we have:
1. Veiled ladies are lacking in Vitamin D -- there's a story about this on JW
2. Babies born 9 months after Ramadan have lower birth weights and worse health outlooks than normal, because their mothers were fasting (that's in Malcolm Gladwell's "Outliers").
hmmm... Islam: not only bad for the brain, bad for society, but also bad for Muslims' physical health as well....
I did once see a Pakistani convenience store clerk with two thumbs,on one hand. Ugh..
So...If one marries one's first cousin and has children (at least one of each sex), does this mean a boy can marry his sister, since they are merely second cousins?
Cannot see how this government can or would dare do anything about cousin marriage. Within a week of coming to power 12 years ago they removed the last restriction by abolishing the "Primary purpose rule" as "racist because it mainly affected to the "Asian" community". This allowed the immigration dept to refuse admission to the UK if they considered the primary purpose of a marriage was to gain admission. Since then it is reported 60% of all Pakistanis and Bangladeshis marry a partner brought in from those countries.
They were of course paying off their "Asian" vote 12 years ago and we will be paying for it for years. I think in the coming election they are going to put up a lot more "Asian" candidates in safe seats.
You could argue, that it is not the task of Western democraties to help Muslims clean up polution of the Islamic gene pool or any of the other negative consequences of Islam.
But on the other hand we are stuck with the extra medical and social expenses of giving the deformed and mentally retarded children of Islam a decent life in spite of Islam.
How do we solve this conflict?
Reasons for cousin marriages:
1 - settling debts.
2 - children suffer only 10% chance of disability or death.
3 - it's a consequence of Allah’s will, not mandated but is permitted.
4 - prevalent in the UK (55% of UK Pakistanis) and on the rise (75% in some areas)
5 - respected under religious, cultural, and human rights practices in the UK.
6 - allows relatives to migrate to Britain as a fiancé or spouse.
7 - prevents integration of immigrant communities into British society.
8 - financial support of relatives abroad.
9 - provides a “ready-made framework of supportive family members for a new immigrant spouse”
10 - in the Middle East, it is also said to underpin clan loyalty and to accompany nepotism.
No mention of nikah, probably a British thing.
Chicken or egg?
Islam produces idiocy, and idiocy produces Islam.
Allah Akhbar!
Hello all (expect any mohammadans)! I'm a longtime lurker and first time poster. I was at one time a loopy lefty who believed all people are "just people" and basically good. After living in dar al islam for five years I now know without a doubt that attitude is culturally suicidal.
Now my two cents on the mohammdans' penchant for being kissin' cousins:
Rather than discourage this behaviour we should encourage it in mohammadans of all ethnic backgrounds in all western lands.
Severely mentally and physically disabled people tend not to reproduce. After a few generations of mohammadan mongos there will be no mohammadans physically capable of being or breeding more mohammadans who are perpetually offended, outraged and demanding special concessions for their cult of misogyny. There will also be no able bodied mohammadan devils in our midst ready to wage jihad at the drop of a hat.
~a British thing~ sorry I meant English.
If they want to destroy their gene pool, should anyone really care? Allah wants it that way. Who are we to disagree?
mentally deficient people produce mentally deficient killers...
Istanbul_Chick,
Your argument is valid up until the last sentence. There will always be able-bodied Muslims in our countries "ready to wage jihad at the drop of a hat" for one simple reason: WE KEEP LETTING THEM COME HERE!
Only after ALL Muslim immigration to the West has been permanently ended will inbreeding begin to work its way through the Western Muslim population. As long as fresh blood can come in (they go home to get married and bring their spouse back) it will never end.
Muslims aren't the only ones who believe in suicide. The West is committing cultural suicide and patting itself on the back for its "tolerance" the whole time.
So far as I can tell, the major barriers preventing Muslims from creating any type of modern viable society are;
1.) Islam
2.) Illiteracy
3.) Tribalism
4.) Inbreeding
Like the Gordian knot all of these dynamics are interwoven to the point that they are inseparable. No nation has the resources, honesty, or will to end all of these problems. Better to stop immigration, deport as many as possible, and wall the entire region off to wallow in its own self-made misery. The best the West can do is help those few Christians, Jews, et al. trapped in Muslim lands to escape ala Soviet defectors.
What goes unnoticed and uncared but will have dire consequences is the lame, unintelligent Islamic immigration policy in the west. For far too long, the west has been in a love fest with Islamic countries for the following reasons and always gave the Muslim immigration a free pass:
1) The west's gluttony for oil and Gas and related profits.
2) The west's greed to invest Arab Oil wealth for shared profits
3) The west's policy for what they think is "cheap" Islamic labor force, instead of encouraging native population growth.
But as if this liberal approach is not enough, the Muslims immigrants have actually quadrupled the immigration factor simply by escalating "cousin" marriages with the children of those ineligible family members who are over 21 years or have "other" mitigating factors barring them entry into the UK.
This "cousin" workaround loop hole spits in the face of the immigration rule because once the "cousin" is allowed by way of marriage, so will her entire "blood related" family in time, who was once denied immigration. Its a great win-win British system. If money changes hands to "facilitate" this marriage all the more better, because once the "family" is in UK, almost as a rule, no one will work or will even attempt to speak English. The liberal town council will be more than happy to accommodate mom, dad and 9 siblings in a huge townhouse with checks rolling in every week in the mail, special halal meals, transport vouchers, foot baths, the whole nine yards all for the keeping and FREE, courtesy of the British taxpayers. And the Muslim community services and conjunction with "Society on Islamic Relations of the Universe" and other "community organizations" will guide, supervise and "represent" this family for generations to come to maximize the advancement of "Islamic agendas". This "cousin" marriage immigration sham is Muslim specific and gives them unprecedented immigration advantage!
WAKE UP PEOPLE IN THE WEST !!
Just another example to show that when you allow muslim immigration you're inviting-in the whole islamic package--and it's going to cost you--big-time--in every way...
Personally I don't care if muslims want to have passels of malformed, retarded brats. I DO care about the strain this is causing, and will continue to cause, on the health care systems in Western nations.
No OLD fart it is neither a British NOR English "thing"
Fact is that it is legal in England to marry a first cousin but amongst the indigenous Brits it is RARE.
I well remember in the early 60's having a "thing" for a rather beautiful cousin. It never came to anything - not even kissing - because the family made it very very clear that this was an absolute "no no". They hardly explained why but it is clear that even without scientific knowledge of genetics simple observation of effects had been passed on from generation to generation.
The mussies either haven't the simple intelligence or observational skills to notice or else they rely on everything which happens being "Allah's will". They even use that as an excuse for everyday as well as terrorist crimes against one another as well as against infidels.
Namely "if I did it then Allah willed it and I will be forgiven anyway". The recipe (and cleverly cooked up by a gangster) for perfect anarchy.
Actually I take the Crusader view and regard THEM as the infidels and devil worshippers.
And we keep on "welcoming" them and allowing them to almost double their reproductive capacity each 20 years by allowing yet more from "their" village (they claim to be British for goodness sake -but only when it suits) to be imported for marriage.
I'm with Baroness Deech on this one. We should not only make cousin marriage illegal but 2nd cousin marriage as well. And BAN imports of spouses for anyone who cannot show that great grandparents were born here. I may be wrong but I rsther think that Pakistan and India have a somewhat similar policy.What's sauce for the goose and all that.
Wouldn't affect the majority, apart from Asians (not only mussies but indians generally) , who want to marry someone from abroad.
Does that make me a racist? Well I think my tolerance has been stretched to the limit and, against my inner self,I therefore have become a racist by my own standards - there I admit it and now determine never again to say "I'm not a racist but...." I AM in the very loosest definition of that term but on a personal level I judge as I find.
I still have Sikh friends and I don't feel racist towards them. I have half Indian cousins and I feel no racism towards them. I had an Indian aunt who I loved. My great great paternal grandparents were German economic immigrants.
Maybe in the meantime there should be a VERY expensive insurance premium paid for cousin marriages to pay for future medical care in the event of self inflicted birth defects. That in itself might stop the influx. After all smokers in England have been warned that they may not be treated since their health problems are self inflicted and the obese have been similarly warned so no discrimination then!
As for Istanbul Chick. Well how I wish you were right but it won't happen because genetics is such that birth defects aren't the rule. They are still the exception, even if greater than the norm for some groups. Especially "first time round". It takes time, perhaps generations which in the human state is a long time. In mice the effects will be quickly seen in real time but for humans the real time is massively longer.
With recessive traits, both parents must carry the gene, and both must pass it on to the fetus. Usually recessive defects are rare, but in the case of repeat cousin-marriages in the relatively small Pakistani community in the UK these recessive genes are being expressed more and more frequently.
The figure of 75% first-cousin marriages in the Bradford Pakistani community is astounding. And with each generation, the problem of passing on defects is being compounded.
If this community can't solve this problem itself, then the Brits will have to legislate it away-- offended Muslim feelings or not. The cost of caring for disabled children is one thing, but the morality of putting one's offspring at unnecessary risk of disability is another.
And Allah is nothing if not moral -- right?
While traveling in India, you would come across these inbreeds among the Muslims wherever you go. They are usually there helping out in the back of the shop. The ones with physical defects are easy to see but how about the ones whose defect is deficient intelligence?
As you know people who are stupid are easily led like sheep. So a stupid Muslim is a good Muslim. The Koran teaches that you must be stupid to be a good Muslim. You must not question any thing written down you must be a follower and just believe. What happens when these Muslim keep inbreeding generations after generations? We will end up with blithering idiots who will do anything their mullahs tells them to. They are totally incapable of thinking for themselves. These are the perfect Muslims. One call of the mullah after a Friday sermon and all these blithering idiots are having a violent riot for whatever the reason their mullah or a fellow Muslim thinks.
What is the endgame? Eventually what we will have is a perfectly stupid Muslim society living in underground caves, with millions of their mosques everywhere on the surface. Harvesting infidel game as food. Oooops I got carried away too much of thinking about the movie and books "Time Machine" but I think there are many similarities.
bewick, oops bad remark, it was rude of me, I'm sorry.
"British Pakistanis represent 3 per cent of all births in Britain but one third of children with recessive disorders. [...]"
There are some Pakistani families living near me and all have at least on child who could be described as "slow" and needing specialized care...It appears these children will required such care for the remainder of their lives...
Incestual marriages have been long studied and without a doubt they do cause "recessive disorders"..Islam is the only religion that actively endorses and promotes such marriages...And of course, Islam has no problems promoting sex and marriages to minor children...
I suppose Islam encourages such marriages to hasten the delivery of new recruits for the Army of Islam....Muslim children of such policies are doomed to have a miserable life from the day they are born....
When you see Muslim rioters full of "RageBoys" you can see the failure of Islam...or the Pride of Islam , depending on what side of the table you are on...these rioters could well be the product of such incestial marriages and a product of those being stuck , from birth, with a violent religion that preaches hate and forces these children to learn and recite those lessons five times a day...Muslim families have been know to kill their children who fail to memorize their Islamic texts such as the Qur'an.
Islam has been destroying civilization since the days of the early raids by Muhammad and his band of mindless followers...Have you seen any prosperous Muslim communities or countries lately?....Islam encourages and promotes failure...
and then blames their misery on someone else...A prime example would be Israel and every Muslim country that surrounds it...
Israel , as small a sliver of land that it is has always been productive and never the land grabbing conquerors that the Muslims claim...why is it that the Muslim countries surrounding this tiny sliver of land continue to wallow in misery that gets continually....
Could it be that the Jewish religion, a non MUslim religion , promotes and celebrates life while the Islamic religion, promotes and celebrates death?....
Could some of the Muslims miserable lives be attrituable to incestual marriages...no doubt...Could some part of the Muslim miserable lives be attrituable directly to the core of its existance...their religion....Islam?....absolutely....
Islam's marriage policy is geared to produce mindless followers destined and taught from birth to wage war....the fact that their polices are producing so many children with "recessive disorders" cannot be denied....but Islams policies destine all their followers with or without "recessive disorders" to a lifetime of misery and quite often "death"....It is your destiny ...if you are a Muslim...
To see why this is becoming a problem in Britain with it's Pakistani population, one only has to consult a map of the global prevalence of consanguinity (cousin-marriage). It is widespread throughout the Arab world, and in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia the incidence is greater than 50%.
I read this and the first thing that comes to mind is the inbred kid in the movie "Deliverance" playing the Banjo.
What would be the islamic equivalent of the Banjo?
Also, I think that this illuminates one of the main reasons muslims have rarely received the Noble prize for much of anything.
Hard to achieve much of anything at all when your intellect is based upon by millions of inbred, retarded brain cells stumbling about in the dark.
This is compounded by the suspicion that one village has for the other in the various Crapistans of the world. Much has been written on the subject.
islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.
The fact that immigrants where found to have a higher call on NHS services was raised by Enoch Powell in 1961, the year 200,000 foreigners arrived. Fetched marriages was also on the agenda in the 1960's but no government then or since have had the balls to tackle the issue. It is thought that 20,000 come into the country every year to marry cousins.
Earlier i mentioned Sikh friends. This couple are both 2nd generation and both born here and to listen to them, without being able to see them, you would be hard pressed to know that they weren't "indigenous" Brits - same for most of their attitudes.WELL integrated. They follow Sikh customs by donating to the local Christian Church (hear that Muslims?) from time to time but are a bit far from "religious" but don't eat beef poor things.
They had an arranged marriage - that is that they both had the right to refuse at any stage.
Their Siblings though all imported spouses from "their" village area in India.They really DO think of it as "our" village. Some of those, 20 years later, still cannot speak English! Sikhs , and I suppose Hindus, do NOT marry cousins and think it perverse. Quite right. Guess you realise that we've talked rather a lot!
They also reject totally the idea of "mixed marriages" so I feel sorry for the daughter should she fall for someone from a different race or faith. At least she won't face a forced marriage to a cousin at a very young age.She will have SOME choice.
Perhaps people don't realise but EVERY Sikh has a second name of Singh (male) or Kaur (female). A bit like Mr or Ms.
Those who say their name is simply X Singh or X Kaur are effectively lying because they also have a family name.
So if you hear say "Rajinder Singh" that person is hiding his true name and is simply saying I am Rajinder and I'm a male Sikh. My friends follow British tradition and use their family name.
Welcome to JihadWatch, Istanbul Chick.
How did you come to live in Dar-al-Islam, and how long do you intend to stay? I'm sure you have some interesting stories that you might wish to share with readers here.
I find this very puzzling.
How do you tell the difference between an average Mohammedan and a Mohammedan who is mentally deficient?
Much as I resent paying for the lifelong care of inbred British Muslims, I'm consoled be the thought that it might, like the Hapsburgs, lead to their long-term decline
One of the oddest factors here is that cousin marriages are usually associated with small, isolated communities, where the marriage pool is necessarily very small.
But these "British Muslims"—really, just Muslims in Britain—are flying halfway around the world to propagate their cousin marriages. I cannot think of any other immigrant group in the West that regularly does this—generally, even those who would not consider marrying outside their national or ethnic group will marry other immigrants who are not close relatives.
I had a student whose family was from originally from Michoacan in Mexico, in the south on the west coast. While I was tutoring her, one of her brothers got married—to a young woman originally from Juarez, just south of Texas in the north-central part of the country.
They were both of Mexican heritage, but *were not* closely related at all.
It is only the retrogressive influence of Islam that is perpetuating these marriages.
Remember, so many of these cousin marriages are arranged, as well—which usually means forced. A lot of these cases involve underaged girls, as well.
This is an offtopic post, but I just can't resist, and it supports your point.
You remarked, "One of the oddest factors here is that cousin marriages are usually associated with small, isolated communities, where the marriage pool is necessarily very small".
True. Here in Australia, the joke goes like this - Q: "What do Tasmanians call other Tasmanians?" A: "Cousins". (Tasmania being Australia's smallest state, both in size and in population, and separated from everyone else by the dark and stormy barrier of Bass Strait, is viewed as a bit of a backwater).
The greatest taboo: One woman lifts the lid on on the tragic genetic consequences of when first cousins marry
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305078/TAZEEN-AHMAD-Three-uncles-deaf-Five-aunts-died-babies-Why-My-grandparents-cousins-married.html#ixzz0xLsKFn3o