These raids and the alleged Christian character of the militia, as well as its targeting Muslims, is a mainstream media dream come true -- a few years back the BBC featured an inversion-of-reality drama about Christians beheading Muslims, and now, lo and behold, it seems to have come to life. For years to come this "Hutaree" will be thrown in the face of anyone who takes note of jihad activity in the United States and around the world, as if this group in itself balances and equals the innumerable Islamic groups that are waging armed jihad all around the world today.
The point will be the same as the one Tim McVeigh has had to shoulder alone all these years (even though he wasn't really a Christian at all, and did not justify the Oklahoma City bombing by reference to Christian teaching): that every religion has its "extremists," and that therefore it would be bad form to subject Islam to greater critical scrutiny, and Muslims to greater law enforcement scrutiny. Everyone does it, don't you see? Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hizballah, Jemaah Islamiyah, al-Shabaab, and on and on and on -- yes, but the Hutaree!
Meanwhile, why doesn't the Detroit News include in this story quotations from Christian leaders explaining how they condemn this "Christian militia," and that Christianity doesn't condone such violence, and that these militiamen have twisted and hijacked their peaceful faith? After all, they always include such quotes from Muslim leaders in every story about Islamic jihad terror activity. Why is the practice different in this case?
Yet instead of the mainstream moderate Christians (heh) that we would have every reason to expect the Detroit News to feature in this story, Hamas-linked CAIR shows up toward the end of this article, playing the victim card with gusto, so that as the arrests were announced, "audible gaps" (yikes!) sounded in their 10th anniversary banquet hall. The claiming of victim status, complete with gasping prospective victims, is artful -- and of course the Detroit News says nothing about CAIR's links to Hamas, the jihad-related arrests and convictions of several of its officials, and the rest of this group's unsavory record. A responsible reporter might have asked Dawud Walid if he thought this alleged Christian militia group was a "backlash" after the sharp increase in jihad terror activity in the U.S. in the last year, but why should the Detroit News have responsible reporters on staff when no other mainstream media outlet does?
And as for the FBI and the JTTF, are they investigating the Muslim camps around the country where firearms and paramilitary training are known to be going on? Are they doing so with the same energy and resources that they obviously have devoted to the investigation of this Christian militia? If not, why not? If the allegations against this group are true, they richly deserve to be raided and arrested and shut down. But there have been allegations made against Islamic compounds in the U.S. that are quite similar, and nothing has been done. Why is that?
"Seven arrested in FBI raids linked to Christian militia group," by Jennifer Chambers for The Detroit News, March 28 (thanks to all who sent this in):
At least seven people, including some from Michigan, have been arrested in raids by a FBI-led Joint Terrorism Task Force in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana as part of an investigation into an Adrian-based Christian militia group, a person familiar with the matter said. [...]Lackomar said he heard from other militia members that the FBI targeted the Hutaree after its members made threats of violence against Islamic organizations. [...]
One of the Hutaree members called a Michigan militia leader for assistance Saturday after federal agents had already began their raid, Lackomar said, but the militia member -- who is of Islamic decent and had heard about the threats -- declined to offer help. That Michigan militia leader is now working with federal officials to provide information on the Hutaree member for the investigation, Lackomar said Sunday. [...]
Dawud Walid, executive director of the Council on Islamic-American [sic!] Relations of Michigan, made an announcement Sunday during the group's 10th anniversary banquet about receiving a call from a network journalist about the alleged threat against Muslims.
"Don't allow this news to scare you away from practicing your faith," said Walid.
Audible gaps [sic!] were heard throughout the banquet hall when the news was announced. Walid said he will call local authorities about more information on the allegations. He urged local Muslims to recommitt [sic] themselves to their faith in light of the accusations.
Yes, that will pacify everything.
Oh good, now that CAIR has found the token "Christian" militia group that supposedly threatened Muslims with violence we won't ever have to listen to Robert, Hugh or Marisol tell us about violent Muslim organizations who want us infidels dead again because obviously this is now a "Christian" problem.
Just think of all the YEARS of mileage Dougie Hooper will get out of this one.
My goodness!
Finally, the CAIR'ers have found the mystical Christianist Fundamentalists who threaten us all!
I can't wait to see how the media beats this up and how the Mohammedans along with their leftist useful idiots make hay out of this one.
Considering the FBI views being a Muslim extremist(Maj.Hasan) who is pen pals with Al-Qeada as normal and routinely turns a blind eye to Islamic extremists in this country, what else could you expect.
Remember prior to 9/11 the FBI was totally oblivious to terrorism save the imaginary threat posed by white, working class Americans who didn't like Clinton and the Democrats very much?
Even afterward it was almost impossible to get the FBI to take anti-terrorist duties seriously.
IMO its a political organization today that does as the DOJ orders it to do, nothing more.
Is.Lam.Berg.
I used to live next to an extremist Christian and it was a complete nightmare. The guy used to always great me really cheerfully like when I'd be getting the mail or paper and just wanted to be left alone; he'd offer to help me do things that I was totally content to do myself; he'd move the snow off my sidewalk if I didn't get out there early enough to beat him to it, and then I felt obligated to reciprocate; he offered me his car when mine broke down; and the list goes on and on and on. I suspect he was even secretly praying for me on occasion.
Stinking Christian extremists - I wouldn't wish the experience on anyone.. /sarc
...but the militia member -- who is of Islamic decent...
Just exactly what is, 'Islamic decent'?
As the reality of islam slowly penetrates the lies and deceptions that have been fed to the American people, there will be ample and justified outrage; there already is, but violence is not the answer and most Americans would never engage in it. Millions of Americans are asking the logical question right now: Why are these people (muslims) permitted to invade America? Americans will fight the islamic scourge but we will do it legally and peacefully.
The most likely scenario for violence against muslims would occur if muslims try to establish no-go zones in large cities as they have done in Europe. Christians don't form militias to attack and threaten people and I'll have to hear much more about this situation before I believe the people involved are "Christians". Yeah, the savages at CAIR will have a heyday with this one; we'll never hear the end of it and the heinous atrocities committed by barbaric muslims every day of the year will continue to be ignored by all concerned: the media, the government, the left-wing useful idiots and apologists, etc. Sickening.
As the resident Christian fundamentalist who believes in the Just War theory, I have a few comments.
First, Islam_Macht_Frei, the Constitution of the US speaks of a "well-regulated militia", not of private armies and vigilantism. I believe that this means militias organized by and answerable to state and national government--not the ruined small farmers who become weekend soldiers and hole up in the mountains. I welcome this militia development about as much as I welcome events like 9-11 or a race riot. I knew a few militia supporters in the Midwest, and they made me decidedly uncomfortable.
But, can I truly blame such people? All they hold dear is mocked daily on TV and in "respectable" media; they know that federal courts will accommodate Cuban Santeria cults that want to sacrifice animals in quiet suburbs (Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye v. City of Hialeah, FL) and accommodate Islamic demands for public accommodations of five daily public prayers in public and private workspace all while piously invoking "Separation of Church and State" against student Bible clubs in public schools or individual prayer by Christians in public institutions.
If I had a family farm, I'd wager it that if Christian fundamentalists got a quarter of the accommodation that Islamists do, militias such as the one in this story would disappear. But I'm also sure that the more accommodation given to Islam, the more Islamic predation against non-Muslim societies we'll see.
Um ...
1) What is it, if anything, that makes those people a "militia"?
2) What is it, if anything, that makes that group a "Christian" militia?
Are there any facts involved here or are we expected to simply accept those terms on faith?
3) Is that all they've got? Some of the people involved made threats?
This all sounds like pretty thin stuff. In fact it sounds like a sissified, theatrical put-up job.
The only solid take-away I can get from that story is that some allegedly Christian people got busted for scaring some mohammedans -- and that is to assume that the accusations involved were not plain lies.
"IMO its a political organization today that does as the DOJ orders it to do, nothing more."
It is political cover. And DO*D* is in it up to their eyeballs.
Well, I checked out this group's site. "Hutaree"—supposedly, I'm not the language—means "Christian warrior".
Their motto is the Bible verse John15:13, “Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.” Clearly, they do believe in being armed, but it is unclear how violent they are.
They do have something nasty called "Evil Jew Forum", which sounds pretty unpleasant. One thread read, "[N-word N-word N-word]", but it was not clear to me whether this was actually posted by a Hutaree member—they claim comments are open and unmoderated.
The odd thing was that I found absolutely *nothing* on the site about Muslims, pro or con.
Uhhhh - why are you directing your comment at me????
Muslims are the new protected class in America.
With a muslim (Oh yes he is) in the White House, what else could we expect?
First Spencie has to withdraw his involvement with a homophobic group that he has long links with, now this. What a bad week for the hairy one.
OH LOOK Everyone! Troll DustinH is on the scene!
Let me get this straight Hutaree was allegedly targeting islamic organizations but not national governments in different countries? Yet this is morally equivalent to what muslims are doing? I would put the Hutaree in the same category as Jones-Town and the Branch Davidians. Only difference being, they never actually commited any violence.
thought I would share an article that was written by a friend of mine and published in the Montreal Gazette this morning. I wanted to email it to Mr. Spencer to post but could not find an email address to do it.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/letters/Tolerating+intolerant/2736040/story.html
Just what is so bad about keeping one's motives pure and holding one's head high? And, why exactly would that and this make for a bad week for Mr. Spencer? This story has nothing whatsoever to do with Islamic jihad, except for the tag-along benefits CAIR will try and wring out of it. A few wacko "Christian fundamentalist" nutjobs (if they turn out to be that) are nothing compared to the millions of actual jihadis around the world.
After numerous arrests of jihadists across the US last year and the death of 15 people at the hands of two different lone wolf jihadist incited by Muslim clerics, CAIR and the leftist media finally have the diversion that they've been long anticipating: a "Christian" militia. This allows the fork-tongued Muslim apologists to claim that Christianity is just as likely to produce violent extremists and the leftists are already again screeching about "right-wing extremism" (expect to see Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh somehow blamed for this). Of course, this whole "Christian" militia story is much ado about nothing. I suspect the FBI is under pressure from Eric Holder and Obama to dig up some militia-types to offer up to the SPLC and the liberal media so they can get some more mileage out of their "right-wing extremism" shtick.
you spell that Dunceton...
How old are you? 8...maybe 9 years old? Your posts are better vocalized on the playground.
You have no means to refute anything said here so all you do is post insults in an attempt to annoy the adults here.
Typical spoiled brat...
islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.
Jan Hanna~
What a wonderful article...I mean, in that it's written without any PC/MC baggage to have to wade through. It's heartbreaking in its directness and honesty. We need more writers like your friend, Sherif Emil. The style reminds me of stories one might have read in the pre-PC days, when intolerance and injustice were described for what they really were -- back when you could call a spade a spade without cries of "Bigotry!" "Racism!" "Whatever-phobia!"
It makes me wonder, knowing that Dr. Emil is from Egypt, if it is mainly people from OUTSIDE of our PC/MC "paradise" that we must look to for the unvarnished truth? Those who have not been infected with "über-tolerance-syndrome," such as Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Nonie Darwisch, Sherif Emil et al.
Noted! ;)
Oh, children. It's just a shot away.
Deadly Blast Rocks Subway Station in Moscow
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/29/world/europe/29moscow.html?hp
I am an American Muslim. (Yikes! Run for the hills!) All you tiny-brained haters are forgetting the terrorism inflicted by the United States directly on the innocent civilians of Iraq and Afghanistan; Vietnam; Japan; Germany; the list goes on and on. In all cases, innocent civlians intentionally targeted (Nagasaki, anyone?). Oh, but that was "justified," you'll say. The attacker always thinks terrorism is justified, that the other side deserves it. Anyone who questions your reasoning is branded a "troll" and ridiculed as a child might be ridiculed on a schoolyard. There is no logic, reason, or objectivity to be found on this blog--only irrational hatred of the same sort that led to the Holocaust. No, you're right, the Hutaree are not really all that significant. Our own military is the real terrorist. And indirectly, we support terrorism via Israel--that's the true purpose of Jihad Watch--to argue that all Muslims are "warlike" and "uncivilized" (colonialist rhetoric that goes back centuries, borrowed from the old UK), and therefore can be killed en masse. But if you try to eliminate us, to kick us out of our homes, we will fight back just as any human being would. If you are willing to treat us as human beings and engage us in reasoned discussion, however, you will find us willing partners. It's your choice.
"The cause of the blast was not immediately clear, but it raised fears of a renewal of terrorism in Moscow."
Ok, now is it "islamophobic" to "fear" that this was perpetrated by moslems?
Are we "islamophobes" to fear that responsibility will soon be claimed in the name of islam?
Can we possibly, ever, be correct about incidents like this without being labeled bigots?
I, for one, will be happy to apologize if Amish seperatists turn out to be the culprits here, but I don't think that's gonna happen...
Just a Simple Question to you. 80 Million Hindu killed by Muslims were they also responsible for killing Muslims?
Sorry to break your Bubble. There are millions of Buddhist, Jews, Hindus, Christians who know the deeds to Muslims in the middle ages.
Just Google Hindu Holocaust and you shall find your answer about the niceness of Islam and Muslims.
In India 95% of the terrorist attack are done by Muslims and Islamic Terrorists and it does seem surprising that no Muslim condemns it?
Just check the history of India written by Islamic historians and you shall get the facts.
Hindu Kush is the mountain in Afghanistan and it means killing of Hindus.
Great is Islam that a Mountain has a Named “ Slaughter of Hindus” . It seem that we may get to see many Mountains named like that in future. Now it should be Christian Kush, Buddhist Kush, and Jew Kush.?
How about the Buddha Bamiyan .The Statute of Lord Buddha. The noble one ,the peaceful one.
One Empty Mosque broken in India that too which was build on Lord Ram’s Birth place by destroying Lord Ram’s temple and Muslims all over the world Shout. What happened when Churches, Temples, Statutes all broken all over the world and from ancient times to present time. But then you are an American Muslim and hope you put the constitution of USA first and Islam later and will fight all those Muslims who attack America. Just a Hope
You sound just like my brother. He's not muslim but he might as well be. To him the poor muslims have always been the victims of the imperialist west, colonization, exploitation, post-colonialism, Israel blah blah blah.
America hasn't done anything right since 1789, according to him. And I guess to you as well. What else? Oh yeah, our own military is the terrorist enemy and just murders innocent civilians, the Trilateral Commission and Illuminate are creating a New World Order, the Nazi's were good guys, Saddam was a hero and client of Bush I...the Joooos are out to control the world. You guys should really get together and bang heads down at the olde-tyme mosque.
--------
JihadWatch is here to spread truth, Mo. If the truth causes problems to you guys, it's not JW's fault. You guys (muslims) are, right now, about where Christians were in the late 13th century, if you think about it. Your religion needs to GROW UP! Just grow up! You need to realize that the 7th century ideals of Muhammad desperately need to be updated to version 2.0 or better.
Please.
We non-muslims are perfectly happy to live together with everyone so long as no one is shouting all the time that we have to change or die, or tolerate violence and adopt muslim ways and submit to shariah.
We will not.
Try this: Mind your own business, stay out of mine and everyone elses, and there's no reason for you to ever have to fight back or fear anything, dude.
While you're at it, grow a thicker skin and stop whining at every little perceived slight or actual slight. Be a grown up and join the 21st century. Stand up for your rights but don't you dare say I or anyone else have to bow to your every whim and demand.
Tolerance is a two-way street.
Abdel-Latif: I am not sure if your Prophet would approve of your stated desire for "reasoned discussion". After all, when reasoned discussion occurs, the other partner in the discussion sometimes wins the argument. I think your prophet might call you a "hypocrite" or "kuffar" or some such delightful word if you went down that road. It is simply not decisive enough for such a man of action as Mohammed. He wants conversions, heads, piles of jizya, booty, not just words.
Besides, I think you are just kidding. If you really believed in reasoned discussion, you would not have spouted the nonsense you did.
By the way, we don't want to kill you. Sorry to spoil your fun, but we don't.
Now run along and do your attention-seeking somewhere else.
I used to live next to an extremist Christian and it was a complete nightmare. The guy used to always great me really cheerfully like when I'd be getting the mail or paper and just wanted to be left alone; he'd offer to help me do things that I was totally content to do myself; he'd move the snow off my sidewalk if I didn't get out there early enough to beat him to it, and then I felt obligated to reciprocate; he offered me his car when mine broke down; and the list goes on and on and on. I suspect he was even secretly praying for me on occasion.
Was your neighbor Ned Flanders...?
Shame of it is...someone who really was bothered by the Christian next door, would write the same thing with sincerity...
Sigh...
Death to islam. Free the muslims of its slavery. Stop the brainwashing that produces people like Abda-Latif who will believe anything told to them by the bloody imams and ayatoilets.
You make the same old stupid statements that have been made here before. Are you guys made with a cloning machine of some kind? A cookie cutter that makes islamic trolls?
Same old tired crap. So boring to deal with and so easy to refute.
I'm just too fed up with crap like yours to respond. Anyone with the least bit of experience here sees you for what you are...and it aint pretty.
I shall enjoy watching you get your intellectual ass kicked.
I might even join in but you are such an amateur it would be overkill to the pegs.
No islam...Know Peace.
Know islam...throw up!
Is this guy friends with Ipso? All that terrorism talk and Nagasaki mentioned...makes me wonder.
Stupid Flanders...Doh!
"who is of Islamic decent"
What? How can anyone be of a religious/political decent?
"If you are willing to treat us as human beings and engage us in reasoned discussion, however, you will find us willing partners. It's your choice."
Everytime we wish to partake in reasoned discussion, all we get are lies, foul-mouthed behaviour, threats of being sued or of being killed and the constant complaint that we can't understand Islam because we aren't Muslim and don't know Arabic.
If there's any part of the world where reasoned discussion takes place without fear of state reprisal or being killed by one's opponents, it's the West. If one tried to have a reasoned discussion in the Islamic world to logically argue the case against Islam and say that it's nothing but a hateful ideology, you'll come to know Islamic reasonableness very quickly.
Case in point: the Danish cartoons. These were CARTOONS and the reasoned discussion that came from the Islamic world were death threats, embassies being burned and boycotts.
Islamic colonialism was going on for 1000 years before the Americans started to get in on the act, so what's your gripe, are you upset because of some sort of copyright infringement or something?
I poked around a bit inside of something called hutaree.com -- which may be relevant to this matter.
They have two declarations prominent on their homepage:
and-- They do indeed seem to have an ideology of sorts built around the idea of a Christian country. Also a reference to something called "Colonial Christian Republic".
-- If they are not in fact a "militia" they do at least have a military sounding ranking for levels of membership in their society.
Mostly they seem like a sort of prepare-for-emergency end-times-are-coming sort of group.
They don't have much I would call specifically hateful propaganda or inciting literature on the site, although they do in fact have something they call the "Evil Jew Forum" dedicated to "Talk about being an evil Jew and how we are taking over the world in our own private forum where no one else can see. Shalomi or something.".
Repellent to say the least. But all I could find along those lines.
There isn't much of a theological nature as such. They don't seem to be theocrats. Neither do they seem to be promoting the idea of pro-active aggression against anybody in particular, at least not on their website.
The whole thing looked pretty sketchy and groady, but weak tea compared with the overt blood-thirstiness of the jihaddists.
They appear to be much more concerned about preparing for "the end times" and what they expect is the impending collapse of society.
But I can see why the bastards in DC are so excited about them. This group seems thoroughly disgusted by what they regard as the corrupt and anti-freedom nature of our gov't and its functionaries -- and more exciting than that, appears (although I saw no overt assertion along these lines) to be concerned about defending/hiding themselves from the agents of a gov't they expect to turn totalitarian any time now. (Not what you can call an altogether nonsensical idea at this point.)
So I suppose that is very offensive to the would-be totalitarians in DC.
... much more offensive than a global jihad movement which is killing people by the hundreds and thousands all over the world -- and is campaigning aggressively everywhere, even right here on American soil.
Oh this is just swell. Janet Napolitano must be ecstatic. It's a two-fer, right wing survivalists and "Christians"! The story mentioned that there were helicopters and a small army of police that took part in the raid. Janet must surely be involved in this, and is probably already thinking of herself as right up there with another infamous Janet (Reno - remember Waco and the Branch Davidians?).
One problem - just what were the specific "threats of violence" that prompted this raid? The story didn't say. But given the proclivities of Muslims to take offense at just about anything it might have been something that in most circumstances would be considered innocuous. We'll have to see. I assume the ACLU will be falling all over itself to defend these people. And I assume Islamberg will be next on the FBI's list of groups to raid, right? Right?
Joe, I, too, wandered over for a look-see at hutaree.com. Interesting, to say the least. The rhetoric isn't much different from what we hear on Sunday morning TV broadcasts, although they seem to have actually taken it more seriously than the typical Sunday crowd. Funny thing, though, I couldn't help but think that the U.S. should deputize these guys and send them to Afghanistan. At least they have a clear understanding of who the enemy is.
Also, I wonder if this isn't perhaps who Janet Napolitano had in mind when several months ago she caused a stir by fingering returned military veterans as being potential sources of "domestic terrorism." There was no information on the Hutaree site about the membership of the Hutarees, but young fit guys in uniforms with guns in the video clip sure looked like they could have been recent returnees from the ME. Could have been ex-military, or maybe ex-Blackwater. I wonder where their funding came from?
Exactly - Ned Flanders. Hey diddly-dee neighbor. I guess that makes me Homer, right??
On a serious note, here's the dif between extremist Christians and extrmist Muslims:
Insult Christ or Christianity and moderate Christians will think unChristian thoughts while extremist Christians will pray for you.
Insult the prophet or Islam, and extremist Muslims will kill you while "moderate" Muslims gladly look the other way and tell themselves and others that you had it coming.
I noticed they haven't shut down their training site on YouTube yet. http://www.youtube.com/user/hutaree
These "Hutaree" are as much "nutcases" as the Muslim "jihadists".
It's a child-like, psychopathic thrill to play real war games.
We have to get rid of all of the nutbars in the world if we ever want peace on earth.
"I couldn't help but think that the U.S. should deputize these guys and send them to Afghanistan."
I've got a better (and much more constructive) idea.
Send them to a. Southern Sudan to help the south Sudanese defend themselves once the Jihad restarts (which it will, anytime soon) and b. Nigeria, where they can work as security guards for the Christian churches and Christian villages and train the young blokes up so they can defend their families effectively, next time the Muslim mobs with machetes come calling...
Only joking.
For now.
No doubt!
This and all the anti-Christian propaganda that will stem from it will do a lot of damage to any speaking about Islam.
**big sigh**
For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security.
THOMAS JEFFERSON
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
THOMAS JEFFERSON
Just a few quote's from who a guy who knew a little something about freedom.
Most excellent--do e-mail this. I offer these addresses for this site: director@jihadwatch.org, marisolseibold@hotmail.com
Dear DDA, I thank you for keeping my daughter's memory in your heart and prayers.
Of course "moderate Christians" distance themselves from this!
I'd think that people who are genuinely concerned with "Jihad Watch" would see this incident as an opportunity to contrast themselves with such extremists, and to advance their reasoned arguments.
Not a bad idea. While I understand something of the frustrations of these people with the way the USA is going, I cannot say that I can truly sympathize with them. We're told to pray for the peace of Babylon, says Jeremiah, even if God in his own good time is going to do it in. I suppose one reason why I'm suspicious of these "Hutaree" (?) folks is that I don't like private individuals takaing the law into their own hands--a reason why I don't like the Jihadis, too.
There's something for those who say I have a self-contradictory religion to chew on!
The media jumps on the phrase "Christian militia group" but quails at the use of, "Islamic terrorists."
I would even settle for "Islamic militia groups" at this point. At least for a while.
The Detroit News used to use the slogan "The News Knows.". Well they don't know now.
These guys may be the "crusaders" that I've heard about. Don't people know that "crusade" can also mean an inner spiritual struggle and assuming that it is always violent is outrageous Christanophobia. If they were to be violent, then they must be misunderstanders of Christianity.
Well, the news is now out about what the Christian militia group is charged with. It's really serious stuff, none of the wanky stuff some of us (me included) were joking about above. According to Fox News there was a plan to lure a police officer to their estate with a 911 call, and then murder him. Bad enough, to be sure, but the rest of the plan was to mount an assault on the officer's funeral, where there would have been a large number of police, and murder as many of them as possible using massive amounts of ordinance. It's not clear what the motives were, but obviously derangement played a role. The group was spread over several states, so it wasn't just a small number of Jim Jones or David Koresh followers.
I assume we'll here much more about this in the days to come. I wonder who is behind it and where the funding is coming from.
A final thought: There has appeared a large upsurge in the number of very damaging reports to conservatives over just the past few days, of which the story above is one. They all have elements that are so specific to the Left's concept of the Right that it makes me wonder if they aren't pulling a Richard "Dirty Tricks" Nixon and trying to draw fire away from the Dear One that has steadily been mounting in Congress and in the heartland. (For readers who might not know, Nixon was U.S. president 1968-1973 who resigned during his second term rather than face impeachment because of "Dirty Tricks" against his Democratic opponents he had countenanced during the 1968 election. The specific action that led to his resignation was a robbery of Democratic offices in the Watergate Hotel in Washington, D.C. The "-gate" part of the "Watergate" affair became the suffix attached to a name to indicate its notoriety and signal its scandalous nature. There have been many "-gates" a recent example being "Climategate" etc.) The dirty tricks blew up in the face of Tricky Dick, so if The One is engaging in these tactics he's running a very great risk of being found out, which of course he eventually would be.
Opps. "I assume we'll here..." should obviously be "I assume we'll hear..." (brain to fingers, slow down!)
Looking at the "Upatree" YouTube videos, you can see that they are not moving through the woods like trained infantrymen. They break cover and stay too close together. Whenever they stop they bunch together as an ideal target. If it were not for the music overlay, the way they move there'd be noticeable noise. They brush through long growth and splash through mud. One guy's wearing a clear plastic bag over his torso - ideal stealth gear. There's a guy standing on a tree platform that isn't camo'd and he's carrying a drum magazine fed weapon that you wouldn't have in an OP. As for the "capture the flag" stunt: they should have stuck with the paint ball guns.
Oh please don't remove the videos from YouTube. They will have enormous comic value for anyone who's actually served their country as a foot slogger.
I'm sure we can rely on Fox News. Seriously, these guys are idiots. I suppose idiots can also be dangerous, but what of their tactics? From reports, they seem a bit crude and half-baked.
The group has obviously for some time been under surveillance and/or infiltrated by an undercover agent.
Was "Upatree" a real and present danger or is it just that the US Executive wants to divert attention away from other threats for a time.
Thank you so much for this post.
I saw this story and cringed, because of all the reasons you have said here. It's already being mentioned in the online circles I run, with great glee.
I was going to do a post on my blog about it, but why bother? In fact, I've addressed the issue in general many times. It's always ignored. My going through it again will only be a waste of my time and energy, because the people who choose to believe this way will not be dissuaded, despite any evidence presented to them. I'll just link to this and hope they read it. But I doubt it.
From politicians to world leaders to regular people on the street, they've all made up their minds that Christianity and Islam teach the same things and are equally violent. No type of evidence will convince them otherwise. This unfortunate story just validates their views.
I also have to add that I wish it had been mentioned here that Christianity not only doesn't condone such behavior, but it does not teach it either.
I know that JW has made this point many times. But I think it's important to be repeated in every one of these instances because people simply will not stop making this false comparison between Islam and Christianity/Judaism.
Al-Lateef, one of the 99 names of Allah.
The Subtle One, The Gracious, The One who is kind to His slaves and endows upon them.
Abd .... servant of ...
"the true purpose of Jihad Watch--to argue that all Muslims are "warlike" and "uncivilized" (colonialist rhetoric that goes back centuries, borrowed from the old UK)"
You could perhaps accuse the Americans of "colonial" rhetoric as in "don't step on me", but perhaps not "colonialist" - the 13 founder states of the US started as the American Colonies of England or later of the UK.
Jihad Watch puts the spotlight on the threat posed by Islam. Most muslims living in Dar-al-Harb appear to be relatively moderate and conciliatory. However, that apparent moderation is in the character of the individual muslim, and is not in Islam.
Islam warlike? - you have only to look at the warring factions of Somalia for an example; I don't think it's all the fault of previous intervention of the Ethiopians as the latest conflict is down to personal animosity of ex-UIC leaders and Wahabbi/Sufi differences after the graveyards of the Sufis were trashed.
A definition from answers.com
civilized
adj.
1.Having a highly developed society and culture.
2.Showing evidence of moral and intellectual advancement; humane, ethical, and reasonable: terrorist acts that shocked the civilized world.
3.Marked by refinement in taste and manners; cultured; polished.
I think that Islam generally has problems only with the second usage of "civilized", but the society and culture, however highly developed or polished, is in my opinion in many ways unattractive and certainly antipathetic to the values of Western democracies.
Sounds like they'd all have been better off if their parents had signed them up, years ago, to the local chapter of the Boy Scouts.
Now *there's* a thought for those who do worry about a possible future of societal breakdown and - God forbid - civil war precipitated by an over-confident Muslim 'community' launching jihad against their Infidel neighbours.
1. Have a go at revitalising the Boy Scouts and Girl Guides movement - what better way to see that young Infidel guys and gals are learning teamwork, self-control, physical fitness and genuine survival skills? The code of honour that Scouts learn, and the motto 'Be Prepared', were never more pertinent than now, right across the West and beyond it, in non-Muslim Anglophone Commonwealth countries - India, and those one finds in Africa.
2. In Commonwealth countries, like Australia, if you have an outdoorsy kid, encourage them to take part in the Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme. One of my sisters did that. She learned how to navigate safely in a small group through wilderness country.
This will at least result in a cadre of people who know how to handle themselves in dangerous situations, can think clearly and cooperate with others (a good safeguard against being tempted into a 'lone ranger'/ 'vigilante' mindset), and are unlikely to trip over their own feet in rough country.
I used to visit the Islamic Center near LSU in 1986. I witnessed paramilitary training in the lot across the street several times a week. The men wore fatigues and had built a bootcamp style obstacle course.
Interesting that the Hutaree website was not taken down concurrent with the raid. "Hutaree" does not follow any Christian naming convention that I am familiar with....definitely not in the Bible or any associated literature.
Sounds similar to the charges against the Branch Davidians from the last great Democratic regime.
I remember watching the tanks smash through the wall on TV and the flames leaping as they pulled back. The TV said that it was just tear gas but the flames made people ask questions so they said that military grade tear gas was flammable. They left out that it also included cyanide. Cyanide. Think about that. Janet Reno said we had to get in there because David K was hurting women and children in the compound, then they sought to kill all the women and children inside. No wonder they left out the use of cyanide.
We now know that the charges against the Davidians were made up. The only violation they had was back taxes on *legally* owned guns. Yet the FBI showed up shooting and lost 4 agents when they defended themselves (the FBI killed 5 Branch Davidis, including a child).
Since the government could not tolerate people defending themselves they showed up and started a military siege against them that ended after 50+ days with the government injecting flammable cyanide canisters into the building and shooting at those trying to escape.
They poisoned, crushed under the tanks those hiding inside, and finally burned 86 people, many of them women and children.
Yeah, let's believe them this time.
"All you tiny-brained haters"
Barely two sentences in and you're already calling names. Save it.
We have read your so-called holy book. We know what it teaches. We know the behavior and example of your religion's founder.
Therefore, this post was a waste of time. No amount of ranting about "terrorism" being inflicted by our military on anyone changes the facts of who your ideology's founder was, what he did, and what its teachings are.
It really is as simple as that.
"If you are willing to treat us as human beings and engage us in reasoned discussion, however, you will find us willing partners. It's your choice."
You come here and say such condescending rubbish, when you're the one who started off by calling names, listing off nonsense about terrorism done by our military and end the post with "It's your choice." - as though we infidels are the ones threatening (and slaughtering) Muslims all around the world, on a regular basis?
Laughable.
So far,there is not a charge against the Hutarees that is allowed in the Constitution.
This is just another scam by the government to cause MORE FREEDOM RESTRICTING LEGISLATION and INCREASE FBI & HS BUDGETS.
We must write our Congressmen and complain about these abuses.
Also Write and or visit your Congressmen and advise them that you believe it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL to allow an centrally governed organization into this country and grant them citizen rights when THEIR WRITTEN INTENTIONS ARE TO ELIMINATE OUR EXISTENCE, CONSTITUTION, FREEDOM, WAY OF LIFE, etc.--ie:Islam.
You can write All your Congressman, your State Gov., even the PRESIDENTIAL PRETENDER HISSELF, all at once by registering and signing in @ http://www.congress.org/ IT IS FREE and FAST.
I can't imagine any group having the nerve to physically attack a religious cult that can do this sort of thing and imagine it to be normal1
Warning graphic scenes, viewer discretion required.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVZAVIYdWVE