"Moderate" Fatah: Virgin Mary was "of the nation of Palestine"

This is something that has confused me for a long time.

If Mary was a Virgin

and Mary was the Mother of Jesus

Then WHO WAS JESUS' DADDY?

If I had a dollar for every time I asked a muhammadan this question, I would be rich man...deedle deedle...a very rich man!!!

Leila Khaled and the Virgin Mary --- in the view of "Palestinian" Muslim Arabs, together again at last.

I hope that the various Christian groups in this country whose members have allowed themselves to be inveigled into promoting anti-Israel activities, will take a good look at Islam. The people doing the promoting -- see, for example, the upper bureacracy of the Presbyterian Church -- consist of two distinct wings. There are, on the inside of the Church, certain people who, in a combination of good old-fashioned antisemitism, disguised in the socially-semi-acceptable form of an obsession only with bad old Israel, have joined forces with, and spread the word of, such sly and sinister islamochristians as Naim Ateek, Michel Sabbagh, and --where is she these days? -- Hanan Ashrawi, who must I think be feeling just a little queasy about how it's working out for Arab Christians in the "West Bank" and Gaza, and she can hardly be unaware of Wafa Sultan, Nonie Darwish, Mus'ab Hassan Yousuf, and many others now telling, forthrightly, a truth that she, too, must know but cannot stand, cannot emotionally or intellectually, dare to recognize.

Well, let's start by asking those in those individual denominations, and at the World Council of Churches, with its very dim grasp of Islam, and complete inattention to the persecution of, and attacks on, and imprisonments of, and unpunished murders of, Christians, by Muslims, in Nigeria, in Sudan, in Indonesia, in Pakistan, in Iraq, in -- oh, name your Muslim country, do -- to start paying attention, for god's sake, not to some imaginary Islam (to be distinguished, idiotically, from "Islamism" which is the presumed "bad" and "perverse" version of "Islam")== but to the real thing, as set out by Wafa Sultan, by Mus'ab Hassan Yousuf, by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, by Magdi Allam (now a Christian), by Ibn Warraq, by Ali Sina, by many many many others who have not yet allowed their names to be publicly known.

Know the truth, and the truth shall make ye free.

I can't remember who said that, but I'm sure some of the people at the World Council of Churches, or even some of Naim Ateek's cunning collaborators inside the bureacracy of the Presbyterian Church, will be able to help me out.

At least on that, if on nothing else.

"historical appropriation"

Robert I'm sure there is a book in there somewhere.

Funny... I was under the impression that the Virgin Mary predated the time of the Prophet. What were they teaching me in Sunday school, all those years ?

"I was under the impression that the Virgin Mary predated the time of the Prophet."

According to Muslim teachings, everyone is born a Muslim, not just since the time of Muhammad but since time began. Only your bad parents, your bad environment, your bad everything, caused you, and billions who have preceded you, to swerve off the right path or Path, the Path of Allah.

For another comment, from someone who knows Islam well:

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2416.htm

Okay. The Bible and everything in it is corrupted by the evil Jews, and the wicked Christians.

To all Muslim readers of this forum, I invite you to prove it. Show me the original, numero uno, the one that preceded the Qur'an. Surely, there has to be a text in its original and uncorrupted form, else how can you make anyone believe in Islam?

Until I see proof, (satisfactory proof) I will remain an infidel. So, prove it.

THE WACKY QURAN:

066.012
YUSUFALI: And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).
--------------

And Mary, the daughter of `Imran, ...?????

In several Suras the Qur'an confuses Mary the mother of Jesus [Miriam in Hebrew] with Miriam the sister of Aaron and Moses, and daughter of Amram which is about 1400 years off.
--------------

"and We breathed into (her farja or vagina) of OUR spirit;"

Here allacadabra needs the help of Gabriel to blow "OUR" spirit into "farjahaa" -- her opening!!!

And you thought islam was monotheistic?

WRONG!

And you thought allacadabra was all-powerful?

WRONG!

And you thought allacadabra begetteth not?

WRONG AGAIN!

I must have read the wrong Bible.

Oh, I should have memorized it in Arabic! That would explain everything.

All your virgins are belong to us!

Filthy kafirs!

Its your fault that there's a shortage at the moment....

All we need is love….

Kumbaya, Da’awa & Taqiyya Fest @ Houghton College

Reach out & interfaith dialogue thrown in for free. On the spot shahada declarations accepted!

(They didn't mention anything about the menu, but I'm sure you get heaps of couscous with taqiyya...)

http://sheikyermami.com/2010/03/18/“loving-muslims-in-a-post-9-11-world-”/

Why do muhammedans bother to call Mary a virgin, if they don't believe in the virgin birth?

And let me tell you, every time I hear a muhammedan say that they revere the prophet Jesus, I want to scream.

No, if you deny His virgin birth, His ministry, His crucifixion, His resurrection, and now His presence at the right hand of God interceding for us who believe and trust in Him and His redeeming shed blood, then, NO, YOU DON'T REVERE HIM!

I have never understood one thing from White-skinned , western Christians.

Why do they claim Jesus ? Jesus was not a White-skinned , western Christian. He was a dark-skinned , middle-eastern man.

Now I believe Jesus belongs to Muslims as much as he belongs to Christians.

The Islamophobes in this community can not claim Jesus as if he is their paternal property.

@Stand fast

Yes they do believe in the Virgin birth. See Sura 66.012.

Somehow in cobbling together their book of plagiarisms redacted to make the arab into God's chosen people, they left behind some lacunae, many inconsistencies, foolish contradictions.

alla does indeed beget (according to islam)

While ignorant non-Muslim Westerners burble about the "three great Abrahamic faiths," in the Islamic tradition the other two "great Abrahamic faiths" have no legitimacy whatsoever: the Biblical prophets were all actually Muslims, and Judaism and Christianity are illegitimate twistings of their original Islamic teachings. Judaism and Christianity are thus completely delegitimized.
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Absolutely. As Muslims see it, there are not "Three Great Abrahamic Faiths", but rather Islam, and the—in the case of Judaism—deliberate falsification of Islam, and in the case of Christianity, the mistaken and ignorant misrepresentation of Islam.

The Muslim take is that Jews strayed from the "right path"—the Path of Allah-out of sheer vicious perversity, and Christians strayed from the right path because they were just too stupid to avoid straying.

more:

This historical appropriation, which is far from the first of its kind, is of a piece with that delegitimization. Not only were Mary (and Jesus) Muslims, but they were "Palestinians." So now a nationality invented in the 1960s for the purposes of political manipulation is fitted out with some historical heroes.
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Yes. If you Google "Jesus was a Palestinian", you get *2,290,000* hits.

They include this semi-literate gem, from Yahoo! Answers:

Was Jesus a Palestinian?
the land of the braves brought us the man of courage. Thank you Palestian (sic). Thank you Palestinians
......................

One might ask why Muslims would have any interest in claiming Jesus and the Virgin Mary, whose every stance and action presented a religious and philosophical view that was the polar opposite of everything Islam stands for?

Only because Judaism and Christianity had such influence in Medieval Arabia. If Islam had developed in India or Persia or China, I'm sure they would have appropriated Shiva and Parvati, and Ahura Mazda, and have proclaimed Confucius a "Muslim prophet".

The Muslim "Jesus"—"Isa"—is *nothing* like the Jesus of the Bible. One of his main roles in Islam is to return in the last days and *kill Christians*.

Remember that at the next "Interfaith Night" at the mosque, when the oily Imam makes some reference to how much Islam "reveres" Jesus.

Kepha,

I really don't know what you're talking about.

It could be that you're translating from the Greek vernacular you use. It could be that you've spent too much time reading old dusty Greek texts while working too many hours in Ptolemy's library.

I dunno.

The quote that is used from the Quran (3:67) is a false translation of the Arabic of the Quran.

There are no Arabic words in the Quran that honestly translate "Christian" or "Jew" and the words that are used for Christians and Jews translate Helpers and Penitents so that the Quran definitely does not say that Ibrahim was neither a Christian nor a Jew but that he was not a Helper or a Penitent and Helpers and Penitents were of the Bani Israil.

The Quran never mentions Christians and Jews in any language.

The same goes with "Mary" and "Jesus" that these names are never mentioned in the Quran and Isa does not translate Jesus and the name of the mother of al Masih is Mariam in the Quran.

Muslims who place Jesus and Mary in the Quran use the Bible as their Scripture and the Quran also never mentions Bible nor Gospel so that the concept that the article above seeks to promote is totally false and has no Islamic ground whatever.

The Bible and the Quran never mention Judaism or Christianity as religions and the Quran describes all mention of the crucifixion of the Messiah as false and confirms that there was a hoax in the crucifixion and that all that come with this hoax are equally deceptive, which makes Christianity and the Bible parts of the Hoax.

The Quran puts its confirmation in the words of the translation as, "That they said, we killed the Messiah Isa, the son of Mariam, the Apostle of Allah, but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for a surety they killed him not" Quran 4:157

Mary and Jesus form part of the Hoax of the crucifixion of Jesus and Jesus, according to the four Gospels of Matthew and Mark and Luke and John, is the name that was given to the two crucified thieves as inscribed on their crosses after the Messiah was declared innocent and set free.

Matthew and Luke together take the name of Jesus back to the child of Mary but together they clearly demonstrate that the name of Jesus is as much a hoax as the crucifixion with their introduction of Joseph and the angel and with the charge of adultery that is wickedly suggested against Mary.

The Age Of Reason, by M A Raheem and Mervyn C Charles(available at www.xlibris.com), explores the Scriptures for the Hoax of the Crucifixion that brings the Bible in total agreement with the Quran about the Hoax, but Muslim and Christian scholars are extremely fearful of facing the truth of the Scriptures and continue to mislead readers with their false translations and misinterpretations.

Good God.

Anyone want to even begin to comment on the absurdities posted by one 'Mervyn C Charles', janissary of Jihad, demented ?Islamochristian? or else Mohammedan-in-mask, above?

Any attempt, such as he has just made, to force the sober text and testimony of the Christian scriptures and of the historical witness of the first four centuries of Christianity (together with that of the major contemporary external witnesses) into the procrustean bed of the Qur'an, is simply...mad.

Anyone who wants to claim that the Quranic account of 'Isa' is the truth and the New Testament account of Jesus of Nazareth is a hoax (and note that this repeats the traditional Muslim claim that any part of Jewish and Christian scripture that contradicts the Quran does so because those scriptures have been deliberately corrupted or falsified) is engaging in a blatant attempt to reverse reality.

It's as if someone were to write a foe-fic plagiarising (and not only plagiarising, but grossly distorting and garbling and indeed completely *reversing* the core meaning of) 'Harry Potter' and then had the hide to claim that *his* ugly and amateurish foe-fic was the true, original version of the story and that J K Rowling was a plagiarist and slanderer because her version was so very different from his.

Kepha - do you want to have a go at Mr 'Charles'?

The one thing upon which the very earliest Christian witnesses, and the hostile Jewish witnesses and quite a few contemporary and near-contemporary pagan witnesses agree, if my memory serves me correctly, is that there was a historic person whose name comes into English as 'Jesus' (from something like Yehoshua or Yeshua - he would have originally borne the same name as, and been named after, the great hero whose name has come into English as Joshua) and that his Jewish mother's name was Mary/ Mariam/ Miriam, a very common woman's name in first-century Judea, and that he was executed by crucifixion, on a charge of subversion, and DIED.

Neither the bitterly hostile Jewish sources nor the Christian sources represent there as being any doubt at all about the way he died, and that he died. No reprieve, no substitution, no mistake. DEAD.

Post scriptum: I learned Greek and can read the Christian scriptures in the original koine Greek, which manifestly dates from a time some *six hundred years*, at least, before ever the mad and malevolent mish-mash of the Qur'an was cooked up by 'Mohammed' or his successors.

The Qur'an reads as though 'Mohammed' never met a semi-Christian - or semi-Jewish - heresy (not to mention all kinds of bits and pieces from Arabian paganism and from the Zoroastrians) that he didn't like. And it's totally surreal and chaotic.

The Gospels are full of the light of common day: a very good read, coherent and solidly grounded in space and time, full of the kind of historic and geographic assumptions taken-for-granted that could only be explained by their resting on the testimony of people who had personal experience of first-century Judea, Galilee and Jerusalem.

I recall a friend of mine who teaches comparative religion. She had a girl in her class with a religious Jewish background. The girl had never read the Gospels. My friend set her students this task: read the Gospels and identify those portions of it which are clearly pagan in origin. The Jewish girl went off and read the Gospels and came back and told my friend, in tones of some perplexity - 'I can find nothing here that is *not* Jewish'.

I have no difficulty at all visualizing Mother Mary as a Jewish momma, terribly terribly proud of her son...

All one has to do is read the account of the Wedding at Cana.

The wine has run out. Mother Mary, who seems to be involved with the catering, *knows* that her boy, who has probably been the go-to person in the extended family for at least ten years, can fix *anything*. As soon as he arrives, she runs straight to him to tell him the trouble - 'they've run out of wine!'. He gives her an sharp and enigmatic answer, a seeming refusal, which she serenely ignores, for she hurries off to tell the servants - "do whatever he tells you!" And he *does* fix the problem for her, and the servants do what he tells them, just like *she* said (most likely because they didn't *dare* not). And there is lots of wine, and everybody can go on being happy.

It's a delightfully human exchange.