Lest the truth irk the Turks, Barack Obama rushed to the aid of the Islamic supremacists who deny the Armenian genocide. "Turkey: Armenians; US Gov't Calls For Blocking Resolution," from ANSAmed, March 4 (thanks to Insubria):
(ANSAmed) - ANKARA, MARCH 4 - A few minutes from the beginning of the debate at the Foreign Commission of the American Congress, over the resolution regarding the genocide of the Armenians during the Ottoman empire, the U.S. administration advised the Commission to block the discussion, reports CNN Turk. (ANSAmed).
What's the killing of a few million Christians between Muslims?
Muslims killing almost 100 million in India - no worries.
No wonder Barack keeps winning "Dhimmi of the Year".
There's more on this story in the Turkish newspapers.
http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-203392-obama-urges-congressional-committee-to-hold-off-on-armenian-bill.html
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=urgent-2010-03-04
Both of them appear to originate from the Associated Press.
That pesky genocide stuff just keeps rolling back in like a bad penny.
There will never be a time when this truth will be convenient, but sooner or later it will be acknowledged.
I do believe that the average Turk, raised on a diet of state-altered history texts, and with a Turk-centric view of the world, has no idea of the extent of the atrocities committed against the Armenians. Each one is explained away as an aberration, an exception, an exaggeration,or a deserved retaliation. It doesn't help that the average Turk also has no experience with doing their own research and reaching their own conclusions. They are used to being spoon-fed. Also, they are not used to accepting responsibility in any matters.
Allegations of Turk-sponsored genocide simply don't fit in with their deeply held view of Turkish blamelessness.
When the truth does start to seep out, here and there, it's met with fierce denials, such as "The Armenians killed many Turks too" thereby indicating it was a fair fight; or you'll hear, "The Armenians simply went back to their home countries" abandoning houses, and beautiful churches en masse in their haste to get back to Armenia -- that's all it was -- they wanted to go home; or you might hear, "Many Turks helped the Armenians, took in their children" etc., thereby implying that it wasn't really all that bad; or you'll hear, "Sure some bad things happened, but that was World War I, after all -- bad things happen in wars."
Expect a fierce escalation in denials as the Turkish ego fights to retain its self-perceived spotless image.
Ask a psychiatrist, such as Wafa Sultan, what will happen next, when the awful truth dawns on them.
I hold no brief for either the Turks or their tender sensitivities, but as long as the Incirlik Air Base is as crucial to the supply of American troops in two war theaters as it currently is, such Congressional finger-waggling at them is a luxury in which we ought not to indulge.
Obamas acknowledged sympathy for islam has long been surpassed. Nowadays it’s more like treasonous abetting and support of the enemy, islam.
With the help of the MSM dishonest and bias media, America has elected a President which assuredly history will show, on account of not inexperience, but on account of hardly suppressed loyalty, and ushering in of the Apocalyptic Era. A decline of American power and of leadership in the West and the ascendance of the new Dark Age characterized by perpetual global global turmoil and insecurity brought upon by islamic demographic upheavals, islamic military adventures and ultimately islamic nuclear genocide
Kinneddar, I had occasion several years to see, in a small way, how the Turkish view of history differs from that of the West. It was during a dinner in Barcelona where by chance I happened to be sitting next to a very attractive Turkish lady, and, having just finished reading the book "1453" that described the fall of Constantinople to the Turks, thought that mentioning this would be a good conversation starter. Unfortunately, my lead off included the phrase "fall of Constantinople." She cut me off and with a piercing gaze fairly snapped in an icy tone "Of course, you mean the liberation of Constantinople." By the time I had processed this unexpectedly stiff rebuff the moment had been lost and she had turned her back to me, so we didn't speak for the rest of the dinner.
No genocide took place at all according to the International Law of that time. No evidence or proof where ever found to support than claim of genocide by the Ottoman Empire England and France fail to find any just evidence.
Oh, looks who's back! Our first "troll-sighting" in a long time!
"Obama's acknowledged sympathy for islam has long been surpassed. Nowadays it’s more like treasonous abetting and support of the enemy, islam."
Hussein is a Muslim, and so yes, he aids and abets the enemy, Islam. End of story.
SHUT-UP YOU MOHAMMEDAN.
EVERYONE knows that the Muslim Turks basically exterminated the Christian Armenians. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. GET IT? YOU MASS-MURDERERS. ISLAM SUCKS.
You Muslim jackass. Eff Off, Creep. Bugger Off, Muslim Creep.
Incirlik Air Base, and the listening posts once so important during the Cold War, are not nearly as important as they once were. If the Turks will not allow American forces to use those bases against the present and future enemy -- which will always be the forces promoting violent Jihad (and, if understanding deepens, the forces of non-violent Jihad as well)-- then what good are they? American bases in Bulgaria and elsewhere in the region. Ideally, the Sinai should never have been given back to Egypt, but instead entrusted by Israel to the Americans, together with the three modern airbases that the Israelis had constructed, and Egypt forced to accept this "peacekeeping presence of the Americans" from whom, after all, they have received close to $70 billion that they have done nothing to deserve, not being an organic ally, or indeed an ally at all. But failing that, there are plenty of places. Furthermore, the sustained and relentless assault by the PKP and Ergodan on the secularists of the Turkish Army suggest that that army will not long remain the upholder, and bastion, of Kemalism (that is, secularism) and that, therefore, not only will Turkey have to be kept out of the E.U. whatever the ruling regime may be (because 80 million Muslims cannot be added to Schengenland and allowed the ability to simply move wherever they wish within the E.U.), but very likely, will have to be politely but firmly shown the door at N.A.T.O. if Erdogan and company continue to behave as they have been behaving.
Whenever you hear some apologist for the Turks go into this business of "it was wartime" and "it was feared the Armenians would ally themselves with Russia" bring up the previous mass-murder of Armenians, by both Turks and Kurds (don't forget the Kurds, because that shows more clearly that this was a mass-murder of non-Muslims by Muslims, and not just Muslim Turks), with special fiendish attention to murdering priests and their pregnant wives, in the years 1894-96. It was reported on by horrified American missionaries and books published on "The Massacres by the Turk."
And before that, the Turks, and Musilm Arabs, had massacred Maronites in Damascus, in 1860. The pressure of the West on the Ottoman Porte to treat non-Muslims better led, in fact, to murderousness on the part of those who could not stand to see the Christians daring to behave as if they really could enjoy something like legal equality with non-Muslims in the Ottoman domains.
The end of the nineteenth and the beginning of the twentieth centuries are more accurately described, in that area of the world, as not Turk against Armenian, but has a succession of intermittent massacres, some small and some big, of Muslim (Turk, Kurd, Arab) against Christian (Armenian, Greek, Maronite).
blah. blah. blah.
Defenderofislam; like so many others here before you, your spelling and punctuation skills betray your core ignorance.
If you can't write right, you can't read right. If you can't read right, you fall for whatever your stupid ears hear.
Moron.
"Hussein is a Muslim, and so yes, he aids and abets the enemy, Islam. End of story."
Wholly agree.
Turkey is sliding under the islamic veil and soon will become another cesspoolstan. good for them. Europeans dont want them, and here in North America certainly do not need turks!
Eastview, That's too bad the lady wasn't into two-way discussions.
During my time in Turkey I quickly learned that true discussions were rare: lopsided, incomplete "facts" were presented to me on Islam, the status of Turkish women, or the evil nature of the West. I quickly felt an uneasy sense of having the wool pulled over my eyes.
I wasn't as aware then of Turkish/Muslim history as I am now and so didn't know enough to ask pointed questions when viewing abondonned Armenian and Greek buildings, or when the question of genocide was mentioned, or when the issue of Western colonialism was angrily brought up, or when the EU was disparagingly referred to as a "Christian Club" or when the Hagia Sophia was proudly pointed out.
I listened, I observed, and I started to read -- and if I ever return there I'll be ready with a long list of relevant questions. But I still expect that the answers will be vague and oblique.
Interesting comments from people who still celebrate "Columbus day". Yes, we should recognize all genocides, all of them.
Of course all genocides should be recognized. It's just that muslims are SO much better at them. Not to mention, genocide-by-muslims continues to this very day, while Western atrocities primarily occurred in our less civilized past. You see, unlike muslims, WE have advanced.
There is no evidence that YOU exist. Your opinions are just that opinions, and everybody knows that EVEN A BLACK DOG HAS AN OPINION!!
The Turks are and were the murderers of MILLIONS of Greeks, Serbs, Romainians, Bulgarians and Armenians and that is FACT not opinion!
The Turks are early nazis.
Now get otta' here, turk-troll!
Stop changing the subject!
THE SUBJECT IS THE GENOCIDE THAT THE TURKS DID TO MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.
IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS COLUMBUS AND THE NATIVE PEOPLE OF THE AMERICA'S....
START YOUR OWN DARNED BLOG ON THAT SUBJECT, YOU FOOL!
On the subject of genocides in the Western, and/or Christian, world, it's important to point out that these evils were widely criticized by Westerners and Christians at the time, and were ultimately ended by Westerners and Christians. Thus the Nazi Holocaust was fiercely resisted in many countries, and tens of thousands of Jews were rescued by opponents of the Nazis. And of course, it was Western arms that fought the Nazis and destroyed them.
In the case of the Afrioan slave trade, the trans-Atlantic trade existed for only a fraction of the time that the Moslem African slave trade did, and was conducted with much less gratuitous cruelty. It met criticism almost from the start, and was ultimately ended by the actions of the Western Powers, particularly the British.
On the other hand, Islam never saw anything wrong with such crimes, and there was no Islamic effort to end them. The Moslem African slave trade was only ended by the intervention of the Western colonial powers, and now that they are gone, it has revived. Likewise, the Islamic world never condemned the Armenian genocide. It indulged in the mass-murder of non-Moslems before the Armenian affair, and has continued to do so since then -- in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Iran, the Sudan, Nigeria, Algeria, and elsewhere.
Sonsuz, with his (or her?) remark about Columbus Day, is likely referring to the mass decline of the American Indian population following European contact. Unfortunately for his argument, this was caused almost entirely by microbes, not men. The American Indians were hit by a whole series of Old World epidemic diseases, to which they had never been exposed, and to which they had no resistance. Smallpox was chief among these, but by no means the only one. In addition, tropical diseases such as yellow fever and malaria made the Atlantic crossing in the bloodstreams of sailors and slaves and found New World mosquitoes that could transmit the diseases as well as the Old World ones, making the American tropics into fever zones for centuries.
Interestingly, smallpox had a similar effect on the Europeans when they were first exposed to it in the late 2nd c. AD: it killed 20% or 25% of the population. Fortunately for them, they were hit by just one new disease; the American Indians were hit by half a dozen or more, all at once.
just for sonsuz:
Curiously certain other aspects of the story you leave out, such as the little known practice of mass human sacrifice perpetrated not on volunteers or willing particpants by both the Mayans, and not to neighborly Aztecs. What about forgetting about the little genocide of the Toltec’s at the hands of the Chichimecas. More recently what about the slaughter and enslavement of the Tarahumara by roving bands of Apache, no disrespect to Geronimo. What do you have to say to this mohamedan?
Sounds like you are typical brainwashed mohamedan and as usual is trying out your historical
grievance tactic used on incarcerated felons, stupid simpletons to incite them to hate America, and Christianity
Spencer, I love you man but you got it totally wrong here.
70% of all our supplies for military in Iraq and Afghanistan go through- where else? Turkey!
Yes they are assholes and yes, they are genocidal scum and yes, they did inspire Adolf Hitler to conduct the Holocaust.... but on the same hand we can't endanger the lives of our soldiers to state that a fact is a fact.
HOWEVER- that doesn't mean I like it! The Turks are assholes!
My advice- ARMENIANS NEED TO STOP PRESSURING GOVERNMENTS AND GO AFTER FOREIGN MEDIAS!
Sure, Turkey can through it's genocidal weight around and bully all the world's governments because of it's neverending "influence in the region" but Turkey can't, say, force Esquire Magazine or Newsweek not to report on the Armenian Genocide.
Spencer, tell the Armenians they need to pursue the people directly- any governments they criticize will -always- get bullied by Turkey into lying so they need to build up support from the peoples themselves.
Perhaps they weren't committing genocide, they were bringing the gift of Islam to the those who had been led astray.
"Turkey, a NATO ally with a pivotal role for U.S. interests in the Middle East and Afghanistan, has warned the resolution could jeopardize U.S-Turkish cooperation and set back negotiations aimed at opening the border between Turkey and Armenia."
Every trite, formulaic point made in this sentence epitomizes the laziness of journalists. This is the standard pro-forma description put into almost every mainstream media report on news from Turkey. It is as predictable as a sportscaster saying after a tragedy that "it puts the games into perspective" before returning to hyping the next event, inning, game, shot as the most momentous thing that ever happened.
Moreover, all the points are false.
1. "Turkey, a NATO ally"
Turkey is a member of NATO, but it is not an ally, and the actions and statements of the current government of Turkey over the past decade make that clear to anyone paying attention.
2. "..with a pivotal role for US interests in the Middle East"
Turkey's role is not pivotal for the U.S. for two reasons: The first is that the sentence overstates Turkey's influence in Arab and Persian affairs. The second is that it implies that Turkey could potentially be a major help to the U.S. in achieving its objectives in the region. In addition to overstating Turkish influence, it ignores the fact that the current Islamist government in Turkey is ideologically bent against helping infidel America regardless of whether we are considerate of their need to pretend the Armenian genocide never happened.
3. "and Afghanistan"
The Soviet military machine failed to control Afghanistan and make it into a functioning country, but an Islamist Turkish government is going to take an active role in opposing the implementation of Sharia by the Taliban and help an infidel nation in its occupation of Muslim land? And if the U.S. ever figures that its interests would be better served by leaving Afghanistan to its miserable self--backward, divided, illiterate and full of clan, tribal and ethnic rivalries--than wasting our money and young people trying to build up a successful, functioning Islamic republic with a unified military and educated populace that is more capable of attacking infidel interests and better organized to fight in the path of their faith.
4. "has warned that the resolution could jeopardize U.S.-Turkish cooperation"
What cooperation? If we pass the resolution, will they do us a favor and leave NATO, so an agent of the enemy is no longer ensconced in an institution supposedly dedicated to defending the free world from totalitarianism?
5. "and set back negotiations aimed at opening the border between Turkey and Armenia."
One thing I have long observed is that whenever infidels defend themselves or assert their values, the Muslims usually have a story that prior to the "provocation" they were open to the idea of "making peace," "opening a border," etc. (If not for our Gitmo, America would still be a seen a just country by Muslims. If Israel didn't kill that terrorist who was about to carry out an attack, Hamas was minutes away from agreeing to a cease fire. Israel building the wall was the final nail in the coffin for the peace process...at least until the War in Gaza was the final nail...until building in Jerusalem became the final nail...You get the idea.) Besides, wouldn't pro-Armenian legislators in the U.S. back off from pushing this resolution of the Armenian community believed it was an obstacle to some type of new relationship with Turkey?
As I recall defenderofislam, the last time I saw you was when you were telling us all about how mo didn't have sex with Aisha when she was 9.
You said something like, "I did some research" and he didn't either have sex with her when she was 9...blah, blah..
Then you got hit with a flurry of posts with quotes from islams best and brightest that proved you wrong...and you vanished, like a jinn from the koran!
Now, here you are again, offering up your weak defense of the religion of Blood and Death.
Let me look in to my crystal ball...gazing...gazing...ah.
I see you getting intellectually body slammed over and over...then...you crawl away. Truth chased you away last time. I think it will again.
islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.
Wow...I used the blah blah blah thing in my post to the incredibly inept defenderofislam before reading your reply to him.
Great minds and all that...
sonsuz drops a turd and runs...
I think this guy is a blast! He's nothing but comedy relief from the usual trolls we get here. He calls himself defenderofislam, yet he could not punch his way out of an intellectual paper bag.
Like the guy that brings a knife to a gunfight, defender man is bound to lose any debate he gets in to.
We should not discriminate against the mentally challenged/handicapped. HA!
At least he had the sense to shut up and run away the last time he was gettin' his clock cleaned.
On the other hand, I know exactly how you feel as I have felt that way many times and expressed as much. I'd kinda like to kick his ass a little before he leaves though...
I'm sure others will do the job just as well though...better in fact in most cases.
islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.
"you will know them by their works". Jesus...The Christ!
Isn't about time for this traitor to have an accident?
The Armenian Massacres was not a genocide. Genocides are not defined merely by order of magnitude. The issue is debatable amongst qualified historians, but it is hardly resolved. I don't think the U.S. Congress constitutes qualified historians nor is it a useful venue to do anything useful except mess up relations with Turkey even more.
I find it interesting to note that people who used to defend Turkey on this matter are now using it as a political bludgeon just as the Left did during the Cold War. I shall once again warn the counter-Jihad: don't sacrifice the truth for our agenda. Let the Left do that for their agenda as this will cause them to fail.
The Armenian Massacres were always used to drive a wedge into US/Turkey relations by the Left. Nobody EVER mentioned the Arab participation in the massacres because that didn't fit the Left's agenda. It still doesn't.
Believe it or not, this issue isn't the counter-jihad's fight. Rather, the fight is against the Left's hypocrisy whereby they attack yesteryear's barbarity of a U.S. Muslim ally while ignoring the ongoing genocide campaign against the Jews going on today.
In the end, we should stand with the truth and put it in the proper perspective.
"In the end, we should stand with the truth and put it in the proper perspective."
You mean, the country of Turkey committed genocide against it's Armenian population......?
Agreed, AlaskanInfidel! #:-)
(yeah, i'm having a kinda crazy hair day)
I do not apologise for raising the issue again, that the Anointed One, who claims not to be a Muslim, could not conduct his affairs more in support of Islamic supremacy if he were.
I fear he has installed for the US, and through it the rest of the free world, a future the likes of which will have decent people look back to 911 with a shudder, not for the carnage and the definitive changes it brought to free societies, but that it was not enough to awaken the previous generation from its big snooze.