"Only by accepting the Palestinian narrative - that all of Jerusalem belongs to the Palestinians - could anyone possibly envision the suburb as future Palestinian territory"

Of course, Obama does accept the Palestinian narrative. In "The President's Middle East Playbook" at The Intermediate Zone, March 17, Avi Davis provides some important background on Obama's current bullying of Israel:

[...] Almost anyone who lives in Jerusalem knows that the area in dispute, Ramat Shlomo, is a Jewish neighborhood and has been so for thirty years. It is surrounded by other Jewish neighborhoods and no Israeli in their right mind would consider surrendering it in any final peace deal with the Palestinians. Giving up Ramat Shlomo would be the equivalent of giving up the world famous Hebrew University on Mount Scopus, the tony Jerusalem suburb of French Hill and even the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem's Old City. All three are just as integrated into the Jewish identity of Jerusalem as Ramat Shlomo. Only by accepting the Palestinian narrative - that all of Jerusalem belongs to the Palestinians, could anyone possibly envision the suburb as future Palestinian territory.

The punditocracy is awestruck by the apparent petulance of it all. What, they are all asking, did he hope to gain? Was the intention to dress down Netanyahu and bring him into line? Well, the Israeli prime minister is defiant and there is no sign whatsoever he will accede to the administration's demands that he cancel the permit. This stance has rallied much of the country behind him. Rather than weakening the Israeli leader, as Obama might have hoped, he has only added to his political capital.

The Palestinians watch in delight as they wait for the Americans to deliver Israeli concessions without having to do anything but chew on their falafel. They win either way. If the peace process continues to stall they can continue to wait, which is their modus operandi anyway. If Obama finally gets Netanyahu to say uncle, they will be dealing with a castrated Israeli leader viewed as unable to control his own foreign policy.

The Arab League, those irredentist potentates, are no doubt rolling around on their palace beds in glee. They had made clear to Obama that there could be no further progress in Middle East peace without resolving the grievous wound to Arab pride caused by the Arab-Israeli dispute. Ramat Shlomo has become their poster child for Israeli transgression and so now they are winning too, convincing an American president to do their bidding....

Read it all.

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Obama is an enemy of Israel, not the overt death-to-Israel type like Hamas and their ilk, but the subtler kind which is actually the potentially more lethal kind. Israel should ignore Obama as much as diplomatically possible until Obama is out of office, which hopefully will be in 2013 and not 2017. Four years of the Anointed One will be quite enough for all those who cherish freedom, know that freedom isn't free and understand that barbarians must be treated accordingly.

And thanks again for nothing for all those in America who voted for Obama. In your own stupid little way you did a lot of damage. McCain would have been no great President by any means but he would have been about average and right now average, even somewhat below average, is looking pretty damn good. McCain, whatever his faults, would not have appeased tyrants and left allies like Israel and Poland in the lurch. Wouldn't have run up the national debt by two trillion dollars in his first year in office either, but I digress.

I just pray for the day Israel owns all of the land promised to it by God and the temple is rebuilt.

The Muslims need to pack their bags and move into their homeland, Jordan.

The offensive monstrosity sitting on the temple mount needs to be dismantled and moved to SA.

I am pretty certain that Netanyahu won't allow Israel to be bullied by Obama. Netanyahu knows who Obama is. He won't play his game of Muslim charades.

New bible college in London- Headed by Roberts Liardon and Colin Dye- Come and be equipped with the Word of God to face the challenges of this century.
Included special training to defend your faith -Apologetics-
Learn how to answer muslims and be stronger to face the threat of Radical Islam.

http://www.ibiol.org/

In 2008 I voted my fears, while 78% of American Jews voted their hopes, and their gut-level hatred of G. W. Bush. Sorry to say, I have been vindicated.

You can't sit for 20 years listening to the demented rantings of a Jeremiah Wright, watch the award ceremony for Louis Farrakhan, and still come away with a positive attitude towards Israel and Jews.

We now learn that at 21 Obama made a visit to Pakistan! Last time I checked that was not on the list of college vacation hotspots. What was he doing there?

In the obituary for former Manhattan Borough President Percy Sutton, an African-American, it noted that he had claimed Obama's Harvard Law education was financed by a radical Islamic cleric. Anyone have confirmation of that?

He needs to be defeated, and the hope he engendered of racial peace in America will have been shattered, as our first Black president turns out to have been an unmitigated disaster.

Kaufman

there is another black American, a former soldier, a *real* born-and-bred-in-the-USA black American - Col. Allan West, ret. - who is throwing his hat in the ring.

He knows what Jihad is and where it comes from: he recently gave a stirring speech referring to some of the West's historic warriors, such as Charles Martel and Jan Sobieski, who fought against Jihad. Sounds like he's been reading up on un-PC-filtered military history.

Keep an eye open for him.

McCain, whatever his faults, would not have appeased tyrants and left allies like Israel and Poland in the lurch.
.............

Agreed, Wellington. There is a great deal, sadly, that John McCain does not understand about Islam, and I'm sure that would have evinced itself in his foreign policy, as it did with George W. Bush.

But he recognizes ugly agression when he sees it, and would not be bowing to the tyrants of the world, while throwing our staunch allies under the bus.

In addition to my somewhat mixed metaphor above, I managed to misspell "aggression".

"Almost anyone who lives in Jerusalem knows that the area in dispute, Ramat Shlomo, is a Jewish neighborhood and has been so for thirty years.”

I lived in Jerusalem and remember the time when 70% of Jerusalem belonged to the Palestinians and there was not a single Hebrew speaking person living anywhere outside the extreme western suburb of Jerusalem.

Re 'Abraham Mahfouz'.

Let everyone remember Isabellathecrusader's dictum: "Muslims lie".

Yes there were no Jews in what once was the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem, nor in any other part of the Old City, between 1948 and 1967, that is only because the Arab Muslims had driven them all out in the clothes they stood up in, and Muslim Jordan occupied the place and did not permit any Jew even to visit.

As for 'Palestinians': it is a geographical designation, not an ethnicity. There are the local Arab or Arabised Muslims, some Beduin, some with ancestors from Egypt, North Africa, Bosnia, and god knows where, but whose primary culture and identity are now...overwhelmingly Arab and Muslim, like that of all others who call themselves Arab and Muslim. And there are the Christians, of mixed origins, heavily Arabised, de facto dhimmis, whose numbers in Jerusalem dropped nearly by half during the period of Jordanian Muslim rule, so severely bullied were they under their Muslim overlords; as, indeed, they are bullied now, by the Muslims, both in Gaza and in Arab-Muslim-dominated Judea and Samaria.

Dumbledo asserts:
"Yes there were no Jews in what once was the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem, nor in any other part of the Old City, between 1948 and 1967,"

Nor were there any in any outside the walls of Old Jerusalem. None of the southern suburbs of Katamon, Upper Baqa, Lower Baq’a, nor Musrara in the center, as well as Sheikh Jarrah , Babal Amoud in the south.
As for people leaving that area it is because of the harsh Israeli treatment of Palestinians, both Muslims and Christians. When the Israeli gangs forced my family out of our home in Lydda,and condemned us to live in a refugee camp in Jordan they did not ask us if we were Muslims or Christians.

To Mahfouz...Let's tell it correctly. Even if you are among the 40,000 Arabs actually forced out by the Israelis, about 10% of the accurate figure of 444,000 original refugees, and yes, they were from the strategic area of Lydda, don't blame the Israelis for the fact you ended up in a refugee camp. No Arab was put in a refugee camp by Israel. That was a treat from your Arab "brothers" who wanted to prolong and increase the suffering of these displaced persons for propaganda purposes.

Contrast that with the documented expulsion of 850,000 Jews from Arab lands after the Arab defeat in 1948, many of whom could trace their ancestry to the Babylonian Captivity of 570 BCE. Israel took in 600,000, almost as many as there were Israelis at the time. They were helped by funds from Jews around the world, not the UN, and were placed in housing and jobs as soon as it could be done.

A poll in 1840 by the British found Jews to be the plurality in Jerusalem, and that did not change until the expulsion by the Arabs in 1948.

Get your facts straight!

"I lived in Jerusalem and remember the time when 70% of Jerusalem belonged to the Palestinians and there was not a single Hebrew speaking person living anywhere outside the extreme western suburb of Jerusalem." -- Abraham Mahfouz, posting above

Yes, it was wonderful then, wasn't it? All 37 (or was it 38) of the ancient synagogues in the Old City could be, and were, blown up, and the ancient Jewish tombstones pulled up from the cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and used to line Jordanian army latrines. And Jews could be kept out of the Western Wall, so there was no need to hurl rocks down on them from the Temple Mount, rocks that would have had to be laboriously carried up since there are no rocks naturally occurring, to be picked up and hurled, on the top of Temple Mount.

Yes, Jerusalem was a great place then, from 1948 to 1967.

But here's a question: if it was such a great place, why was its population steadily falling, and why, if it was such a great place, though the Arab Kingdom of Jordan made it officially one of the two co-capitals along with Amman, did no Jordanian government offices establish themeselves there.

And finally, why did not a single Arab leader, not a single Arab of note, ever bother to visit Jerusalem (which was part of the territory assigned by the League of Nations to the Mandate for Palestine, created for the sole purpose of the establishment of the Jewish National Home) during that entire period? Isn't it curious that, for example, no Saudi clerics, no Iranian ayatollahs, no Sheikh al-Azhar, felt like visiting this city "so important" to Muslims?

The only time that free exercise of religion (which does not include the freedom to rain rocks down on inoffensive Jewish worshippers below) has been scrupulously maintained is under Isrraeli rule. The Arabs, that is the Jordanian Arabs (who can hardly be distinguished from the "Palestinian" Arabs) might have done things differently during the period 1949 to 1967. But they didn't. And they, and the Muslim Arabs, are to be judged accordingly. How else can we make educated guesses as to what would happen to those parts of Jerusalem that might, in a fit of madness (and the Israelis really are insane in their inability to make their case, to explain the Jihad against them, and it is they who make rhetorical and other concessions and in so doing, weaken themselves, and also damage the rest of the West by confusing it about Islam)possibly once again be allowed to be controlled by Musliims of the likes of Hajj Amin el Husseini, Yassir Arafat, or the nobody-here-but-us-accountants Abu Mazen.


Tell us all about it.

Mr Hugh’:
70% of the land on which Jerusalem was built was owned by Palestinian Arabs before 1948. Between 1948 and 1967 it was occupied by Jordan and no one should blame their shortcomings, if any, on the Palestinians.
I let an Israeli by the name of Gideon Levy explain to you as he did for the rest of his countrymen in his today article in Haaretz how the demography of that city was changed.

“Even the new magic and foolish solution of the greatest master of words, President Shimon Peres, has persuaded no one: Israel, the president now tells his guests from abroad, has the right to build in "Jewish neighborhoods." And how, Mr. President, did they become Jewish, all of them on Palestinian land, if not by massive, illegal settlement, just like in Ariel, Ma'aleh Adumim and Gush Etzion, which are now within the "consensus" we invented for ourselves? Consensus? Only in Israel. And to a great extent this consensus, too, has been fabricated.”

From a poster above "...it [the Old City of Jerusalem, including the Mount of Olives, Kotel, Temple Mount, and historic Jewish Quarter] was occupied by Jordan and no one should blame their shortcomings, if any (!!!!), on the Palestinians."

'Jordanian' Arab Muslims.

'Palestinian' Arab Muslims.

A distinction without a difference.

Arab Muslims. Maybe, to be precise, 'Arabised' Muslims, given the influx into the region of such persons as Muslims of Slav ethnicity fleeing the Balkans after the Bulgarians and Serbs and Greeks had freed themselves from the Muslim imperial overlords who had tormented them viciously for centuries (more Bosnian Muslims entered the region after World War II, all fired up to join the Jihad against the Jews).

Maybe 'Abraham Mahfouz' above is an Islamochristian janissary of Jihad, rather than a full-fledged Muslim. Maybe not; maybe he's just a Muslim *pretending* to be such an Islamochristian, a good obedient dhimmi parroting the Arab Muslim line.

The late unlamented George Habash, born to a dhimmi Christian family, ostensibly a marxist, but an Arab supremacist and janissary of jihad to the backbone, made it abundantly clear to Oriana Fallaci, when she interviewed him decades ago, that the destruction of the Jewish state of Israel was not his or his allies' final goal but was, rather, intended to be the merest aperitif, or hors d'oeuvre, in the grand Muslim imperial project of Total World Conquest and Domination. Islam, Islam, Ueber Alles...One finds the same grand project, the same overweening global ambition in the pronouncements of Hamas. The land of Israel is a tiny fraction of what the Jihadis' greed encompasses.

The Muslims screech and wail about the supposed imperialism of the Jews; and in so doing all they do is reveal that they are projecting onto the Jews their own mad Muslim lust for World Domination.

http://www.islam-watch.org/AnwarSheikh/Islam-Arab-Imperialism7.htm

Dumb something or other pontificates thus:

"The late unlamented George Habash, born to a dhimmi Christian family, ostensibly a marxist, but an Arab supremacist and janissary of jihad to the backbone, made it abundantly clear to Oriana Fallaci, when she interviewed him decades ago, that the destruction of the Jewish state of Israel was not his or his allies' final goal but was, rather, intended to be the merest aperitif, or hors d'oeuvre, in the grand Muslim imperial project of Total World Conquest and Domination."

George was a nationalist and never called for a Muslim Caliphate. He fought for the right to go back and live in his ancestral home of Lydda.In order for you to maintain a shred of credibility reference your claims by something more specific than “made it abundantly clear to Oriana Fallaci”.

"The enlightenment came in Beirut when I interviewed his [Arafat's] rival, George Habash...Because, while a conscientious bodyguard protected him by pointing his submachine gun at my head, with absolute clarity Habash explained to me that the Arabs' enemy was not Israel alone: it was the whole West. America, Europe, the West.

"Among the targets to hit he cited, in fact, Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland.

"And now read carefully, please, don't miss a word of what he said. "Our revolution is a part of the world revolution. It is not confined to the reconquest of Palestine", he said, "The time has come to admit that we want a war like Vietnam. We want another Vietnam and not only for Palestine but for all the Arab countries."

'Then he said: "The Palestinian problem is not an aside problem. A problem separated from the Arab Nation's realities. Palestinians are *part* of the Arab Nation. Therefore the entire Arab Nation must go to war against Europe and America. It must unleash a war against the West. And it will. America and Europe don't know that *we Arabs* are just at the beginning of the beginning. That the best has yet to come. That from now on there will be no peace for the West.:

'Finally he said, "To advance step by step. Millimetre by millimetre. Year after year. Decade after decade. Determined, stubborn, patient. This is our strategy. A strategy that we shall expand *throughout the whole planet*". {And he, poor dear George Habash, Arab supremacist, *only* wanted to go back to Lydda, according to the Muslim spin-doctor above? - Pull the other one, mate, it's got bells on - dda}.

'Oh yes, (says Fallaci), my eyes opened because of George Habash. The trouble is that they didn't open completely, and know why? Because ...I believed that Habash referred only to the terrorist attacks, to the massacres. I didn't understand that talking about the war on the West, about the strategy-to-be-expanded, he did not mean the war waged with weapons and that's all. He also meant the cultural war, the demographic war, the religious war waged by stealing a country from its citizens...'.

Oriana Fallaci, 'The Force of Reason', pp. 131-132.

And as for the devouring ambitions of Muslims, whether Arab or non-Arab, all one has to do is to read the chapter on the Muslim Brotherhood (that Muslim Brotherhood which is the godfather of Hamas) in John Roy Carlson, 'Cairo to Damascus'. Hamas clerics and the Hamas Charter make it quite, quite clear that their ambitions extend far beyond eretz Israel. Even the PLO Charter is, as Jacques Ellul pointed out decades ago, "a perfect expression of the Jihad".

I observe, by the way, that the Muslim (or janissary of Muslims) above, while sneering at my reference to Oriana Fallaci's interview with George Habash, is very, very quiet about the link I gave to a particularly telling chapter of the book in which an apostate from Islam, Anwar Sheikh, discusses how Islam functions as a vehicle of Arab Imperialism.

Upon encountering all variations of the 'Palestinian narrative', or for that matter, the various 'narratives' spun by voluble and seemingly hard-done-by Muslims in other parts of the world far, far from the land of Israel, the points made by the article I link below, should be borne always grimly in mind.

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war


“He (George Habash) also meant the cultural war, the demographic war, the religious war waged by stealing a country from its citizens...'.”

Now who is stealing the country from its citizens? The instant you and your ilk comprehend this fct then you can go further and see who George was struggling against. He was not trying to invade anybody’s lands. He was struggling against occupation of his homeland; a right guaranteed by all international laws for people whose lands are occupied.

Observe the turnspeak instantly deployed by the Muslim? Oriana was speaking of Eurabia; the hegira technique, the MUSLIM infiltration of Western Europe.

Observe 'Mahfouz' attempting to turn it around and claim that *Jews* in Jerusalem, *Judea*, in *Samaria*, in all of tiny eretz Israel, in places that Jews inhabited for centuries before ever an Arab Muslim, or Turkish Muslim, ever set foot there (and where Jews hung on by teeth and toenails *despite* the vicious cruelty of their Muslim overlords) in places that contain all the most ancient and holy Jewish sacred sites (sites venerated and visited for CENTURIES before Muslims set out to steal same) are - as the Arab Muslims were in all places which they invaded and occupied from the 7th century onward, and as the Muslims of all ethnicities are today in Europe - enemy aliens in the land of Israel, doing to the Poor Palestinians [tm] what the Muslims did in, for example, Spain, the Balkans or India.

I repeat: upon encountering all variations of the 'Palestinian narrative', or for that matter, the various elaborate 'narratives' spun by voluble and seemingly hard-done-by Poor Persecuted Muslims in parts of the world far, far from the land of Israel, the points made by the article I link below, should be borne always grimly in mind.

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war


http://www.islam-watch.org/AnwarSheikh/Islam-Arab-Imperialism.htm

The Arab Muslims in and around Israel are maddened by the very idea that Jews - who they are taught to view as dirty creatures destined by allah for HUMILIATION and punishment - should snatch back a small portion of what was originally stolen from Jews by the Empire of Islam, and should live upon that tiny territory as free people, bearing arms, building new synagogues and repairing old ones, drinking wine, and generally doing all the things that dhimmis are strictly forbidden to do, if living under the dominion of Muslims. Those Arabised Christians who cannot bear the thought of having to live as equals with Jews, within a Jewish state (and would, presumably, prefer to be dhimmis under the boot of the Muslims in an Arab Islamic state of 'Palestine') merely reveal by that, that the ferocious Muslim zero-sum-game shame/ honor paradigm - "If a Jew is my equal and I cannot rule over him, I am HUMILIATED' - has trumped their Christianity.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for the rage and frustration of those Muslims who weep and gnash their teeth in supposed 'humiliation' because the Jews - who qua Jews were, to their (the Muslims') minds, mere objects to be crushed beneath the Muslim boot, pelted with rocks and curses, robbed, raped, humiliated and murdered according to Muslim whim, now walking free in the sunlight and able and willing to defeat any attempt to reimpose upon them the seven hells of dhimmitude from which they have escaped. (Half the current population of Israel is composed of Jews originating from regions within dar al Islam, such as Egypt, Morocco, Algeria, Yemen [where they were treated as chattel slaves, as also they were treated in Kurdistan], Iraq, Lebanon, Syria and Persia; in all those regions the Jewish communities had long predated any Muslim presence).

I do not sympathise, either, with the Muslims of Pakistan, some of whom openly fantasise about once more subjugating all of India to Islam, so that every Muslim will be able to lord it - as cruelly as he likes - over Hindu slaves.

"Those Arabised Christians who cannot bear the thought of having to live as equals with Jews, within a Jewish state."

All the so-called Palestinian Arabs are Arabised Canaanites. They adopted the Arabic language and many of them the Muslim religion. A recent DNA research bore that out. Therefore those present day Palestinians are the descendents of the original inhabitants of the land. They were there before a certain Hebrew tribe wandered in there, during the stay of that tribe there, and after those Hebrews wandered back out, over two thousand years ago. Most of those calling themselves Israelis are Europeans who have no link to the land of Palestine; not even faith since most are atheists. The minority Eastern Jews living there are Arabs of the Jewish faith, and are discriminated against just like all other minorities there.

I repeat, re. anything posted here by 'Abraham Mahfouz',


http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war


Those Arabised and Islamised persons in and around Israel, some of whom may be descended from the Jewish and Aramaic and Byzantine Christians who inhabited the Land at the time when the Muslims took it over, but adopted Islam out of folly, fear, despair or moral corruption, are just like those Muslim persons with Indian genes (how many of those, I wonder, are descended from Indian Hindu minor girls seized and raped and spiritually 'broken' and used as sex slaves in the harems?) who now inhabit Pakistan and Bangladesh. That is: they are now utterly severed from their pre-Islamic history (any such connection is only brought up now to sway the minds of Westerners who *do* value pre-Islamic history), identifying with the totalitarian program of their Muslim imperial conquerors, and thus a menace to each other, to those of their kin who refused to convert (whether Jews or Christians) and so (to the mind of the Muslim) have no rights at all, and to the world, because of their subservience to, and wholehearted furthering of, the global Jihad of the Ummah, or Mohammedan Mob.

Many who now think of themselves as Egyptian 'Arabs' are probably descended from Copts. But they are now, to all intents and purposes, 'Arab Muslims'; they are wholly absorbed within the Muslim Mob, and are murderously persecuting - and will eventually, if not stopped - annihilate and erase from Egypt forever *their own genetic kin*, the remnant Coptic Christians who refused to submit to Islam. The rape gangs who target young, beautiful Coptic girls, and seize and rape and drug and forcibly 'convert' them to Islam and marry them to their rapists and forcibly impregnate them, may well contain young men whose genes would declare a Coptic rather than an Arab ancestry. But so what? They are now servants of an alien and monstrous ideology, sacrificing their own kin (whose kinship with themselves they no longer recognise, it has been cancelled by Islam) to the black rock in Arabia.

Or those persons of Malay descent, formerly animist or Hindu or Buddhist, but now Muslim, who inhabit Indonesia and feel themselves entitled, because of their being Muslim, to RULE over and destroy and dispossess the remnant of their own kin (e.g. the Hindus of Bali, the Christians of the Moluccas) who did not convert to Islam but rather retained their own ancestral faith or adopted something other than Islam.

Or those persons of Slavic ancestry, descended from those who for reasons of expediency, or despair, or because of having been seized and brutalised and brainwashed as children or young women, now seek to domineer over their Slavic kin who did NOT become Muslim, in the Balkans.

Those who become Muslim become traitors to their own ancestors and to their history and enemies to their own kin.

See V S Naipaul, "Among the Believers" and "Beyond Belief" for a devastating series of insights into what Islam does to those whose souls it devours.

Why should those whose souls have been eaten have a right to rule over those of their kin who refused so to be eaten?

A small correction to the above (comes of posting too early in the morning):

For "Those Arabised and Islamised persons in and around Israel, some of whom may be descended from the Jewish and Aramaic and Byzantine Christians who inhabited the Land at the time when the Muslims took it over" read

"Those Arabised and Islamised persons in and around Israel, some of whom may be descended from those Jews - and from those Aramaic and Byzantine Christians - who inhabited the Land at the time when the Muslims invaded and took over...".

Islam - once introduced into any society - can only produce civil war to the death between those who submit to it (willingly or unwillingly) and those who refuse it.

For those who submit to it, whatever their ethnicity or pre-Islamic history, henceforward renounce - and indeed, most often, actively show contempt and disgust for - that ethnicity and history, all of it so much jahiliyya, 'ignorance', and at bottom acknowledge only one loyalty - to the Ummah, the Muslim mob; and they acknowledge only one final and valid source of entitlement to life and property..namely, Islam.

The lands *and persons* of those who reject Islam are viewed as the lawful property of Muslims...there for the taking, to be taken at the first opportunity, by any and all means necessary. Muslims are taught by the texts of Islam to view themselves as the only rightful owners not just of this or that region that currently has a Muslim population (who may or may not be the same genetically as any surviving non-Muslims there), but of the entire world; the very existence of non-Muslims living free under non-Muslim laws, in non-Muslim nation states, is a mortal offence to the Muslims who, forsooth, regard themselves as the allah-ordained owners of everything and everybody.

If Mahfouz, above, is a 'Palestinian' Christian he should know this, and in here promoting the Arab Muslim jihad against Israel, which jihad is merely a subset of the 1400 year global jihad against all non-Muslims everywhere, he exposes himself as a tool, a janissary of jihad, seeking to extend and perpetuate the rule of the Muslims, of the oppressors of his own Christian dhimmi ancestors. His life as de facto or actual dhimmi in an Islamic Arab state of 'Palestine' would be worth exactly nothing; he would live at the caprice of his Muslim overlords who would feel free to seize his children or his property or his wife, at any moment.

If he is a Muslim, he most certainly knows it, and knows that under Islam, what belongs to Muslims is Muslim and what non-Muslims have, is ALSO held to be in reality the property of Muslims also, to be taken by Muslims whenever that can be managed.

If he's a Muslim he doesn't really give two straws about any claims that might be based upon pre-Islamic history and genetics; all that matters, if he is a Muslim, is whether or not a person is Muslim, here and now.

If he's a Muslim, then a 'Palestinian Arab' Muslim who apostasises and becomes a Christian, or (horrors!) a Jew (thereby, if the genetic argument is correct, merely recovering their ancestral affiliation, bringing their faith into line with their genetics) is in his eyes a nonperson, to be disowned, dispossessed (all property rights forfeited, all relationships - such as marriage - dissolved, any children taken away), and executed as a traitor to the Ummah. Same thing if an Egyptian Muslim (quite probably with Coptic foremothers) apostasises and joins the Coptic Church; that Muslim's own kin (themselves quite probably have some 'converted' Copt ancestors) will try to kill him.


Dumbled shows her concern for my wellbeing thus:

“His life as de facto or actual dhimmi in an Islamic Arab state of 'Palestine' would be worth exactly nothing; he would live at the caprice of his Muslim overlords who would feel free to seize his property or at any moment.”

It is too late for me to worry about this since the Israelis had long ago expropriated everything I and my relatives owned.

IF 'Abraham Mahfouz' *is* as he claims to be, descended from a dhimmi Christian family displaced in the course of the 1948 war (which was initiated by the Arab Muslims, so in fact he should blame the Muslims for his family's displacement), then he should read Patrick Sookhdeo's, 'Global Jihad' and find out how Muslims view the ownership status of all lands over which they have gained and hold, or have at any time gained and held, dominion; not to mention, the way they view everything else on earth.

Had the Arab forces - overwhelmingly Muslim, and motivated by murderous Muslim motives (just read Carlson, 'Cairo to Damascus', and what he heard people saying in Cairo, before they galloped off to wage Jihad against Israel) - achieved victory in 1948-49, or in 1967, or in 1973, the Arabised Christians would have been shoved to the bottom of the heap right along with any surviving Jews, and their rights to life and property would have been similar to the 'rights' that groups such as the Copts in Egypt or the Assyrian Christians in Iraq possess today...in practice, virtually nonexistent. It should be noted that in Gaza there are exactly 3000 Christians left and they are under increasingly heavy pressure from the Muslims. For example, they do not dare to ring their church bells.

Antoine Fattal, and Bat Yeor in her book 'The Dhimmi: Jews and Christians Under Islam' offer a searing analysis of what it was like for dhimmis: a condition of degradation, humiliation and constant physical insecurity (for the Muslim Mob could be unleashed against you at any moment). Property rights? Land rights? Right to life? Fuggedaboutit. Pay the (extortionate) jizya "protection" money, pay the (extortionate) kharaj and HOPE that your hairtrigger-tempered Muslim overlords don't decide all of a sudden to accuse you of breaching the dhimma anyway and descend on your whole community in a murderous horde one Friday evening, to punish you for your (pretended) crime.

In a nutshell: classical Islamic teaching is that everything in the world belongs to allah, which really means - in mundane, this-worldly terms, that everything is viewed as already belonging to MUSLIMS. And that includes the lives, persons and goods of Infidels. (Which throws light on why a Muslim who kidnaps the wife of his Jewish, or Christian, or Hindu neighbour, in a jihad raid, and rapes her, even though he has not managed to widow her by murdering her husband, does NOT regard himself as committing adultery, even though he is having sex with someone else's wife.

And now for a reality check, re. the Poor Palestinian Refugees.

From the text proper, p.p 234-235 of the 1951 edition of 'Cairo to Damascus'.

'Some fifty thousand Arabs had fled Jaffa'.

CARLSON'S FOOT-NOTE:


"This flight-psychosis, which prevailed among the Arabs and ultimately resulted in the frantic exodus of many Moslems and Christians, is a difficult phenomenon to explain.

' It was a mass hysteria induced by poor morale *and by fear of revenge and retribution for the Arab massacres and lootings {carried out against Jews, by Arab Muslims - dda} from 1920 on* {my emphasis added - dda}.

'Arab leaders - particularly in the Mufti's Higher Committee - urged residents to clear the fighting areas, promising them that Palestine would be cleared of Jews within thirty days after the Mandate ended.

'After the Jews had been pushed into the sea, Arab leaders said, Palestinians could return to their homes and at the same time share in Jewish booty.

' *They implied that those who refused to leave were pro-Zionist; such people were threatened with retribution.* {my emphasis added - dda}

'In contrast, I [Carlson] know of instances where the Jews begged the Arabs, particularly the Christian elements, to remain, guaranteeing their safety and full respect for property.

'These Christians, however, joined the fleeing Moslems, *fearing the promised retribution following the promised Arab victory* {my emphasis added - dda}.

'As an instance, the Armenians, who had always got along well with Arab and Jew alike, joined the panicky Moslems, *horror-stricken by the memory of the Turkish massacres* {my emphasis added - dda}.

'Wealthy merchants, physicians, bankers, politicians and other leaders were the first to leave.

'Later came the poorer elements until, by the time the Mandate expired, those remaining were largely only the ill and the aged, *the looters*, and the innocents.

'The exodus figure of 750 000 or more Arabs is sheer propaganda, a fictional number that cannot be supported by the facts.

'The populace in the country from Jerusalem north to Jericho was not disturbed by the fighting, nor were the Arabs and Christians resident in the congested areas within the quadrangle formed by Ramallah, Tulkarm, Jenin, and Nablus - Palestinian territory now annexed by Jordan.

'It must also be pointed out that many of the Moslem so-called refugees were homeless, nomadic wanderers in the first place.

'*Poor, nonrefugee Arabs, such as those in Gaza {NOTA BENE - dda}, have claimed refugee status in order to qualify for American aid* {my emphasis added - dda}."
END QUOTE

And it should be repeated that the number of *Christians* resident in the Arab-controlled part of Jerusalem during the Jordanian Arab Muslim occupation, declined by nearly half between 1948 and 1967; that is, during the time *before* the 1967 war broke out. That decline cannot in any way be blamed on the Jooz, but must be seen as prompted by Muslim bullying.


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