One thing you have to say about these Islamic supremacists: they are supremely skilled liars, and are especially adept at feigning the moral high ground and accusing their opponents of lying while telling a whopper themselves. "Iran's Ahmadinejad: Sept. 11 attacks a 'big lie,'" by Ali Akbar Dareini for Associated Press, March 6 (thanks to all who sent this in):
TEHRAN, Iran - Iran's hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Saturday called the official version of the Sept. 11 attacks a "big lie" used by the U.S. as an excuse for the war on terror, state media reported.Ahmadinejad's comments, made during an address to Intelligence Ministry staff, come amid escalating tensions between the West and Tehran over its disputed nuclear program. They show that Iran has no intention of toning itself down even with tighter sanctions looming because of its refusal to halt uranium enrichment.
"September 11 was a big lie and a pretext for the war on terror and a prelude to invading Afghanistan," Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying by state TV. He called the attacks a "complicated intelligence scenario and act."...
Liar-In-Chief, AKA, Thug-In-Chief
In the third chapter -- "Ketman" -- of "The Captive Mind" Czeslaw Milosz quotes Gobineau, who was the French minister at the legation in Tehran for several years in the late 1850s and early 1860s, and the description of the Persian adepts of deception (the word "ketman" is obviously a versin of "kitman" but the deception described by Gobineau is really ot "kitman" (mental reservation) but the wider category of deception about the Faith practiced by Muslims (and originating among Shi'a Muslims protecting themselves from Sunnis) known as Taqiyya.
If I can find the book on some bookshelf I will put up Gobineau's description of taqiyya here. The point is this: the wilderness of lies, of lies that Muslims tell not only Infidels but each other and even themselves, creates an alternative mental universe, full of the most incredible conspiracy theories and misapprehensions of the real world, and one does not know when the speaker begins to half-believe his half-lies, or fully believe his full lies, or what. It's all so crazy, and Westerners who have managed to keep their sanity in that world -- rather than begin to sink into it, and make allowances for it, and forget what reality is themselves -- have returned from their total immersion in a world of nonsense and lies vowing never to forget it. And then there are those -- I know some -- who have worked for decades in Muslim lands, for NGOs or various aid groups, and it has taken them much of that time to slowly, but inexorably, come to realize just how crazy those who grow up in societies suffused with Islam really are, crazy and malevolent. It takes a long time, for some, but when they finally arrive at the dismal truth, and yet their jobs still require them to visit these places, live in these places, pretend to take these people seriously or even go through the motions of treating them with respect, it becomes quite hard on them. More and more Westerners, I believe, who work in such environments have come to the right conclusions, but this is a recent phenomenon -- it's just that the outrages against non-Muslims in such places as Pakistan or Afghanistan or the Arab countries have simply become too well-known, and too disturbing, to any longer ignore.
You've got to be joking me! Incredible. Evil.
"...just how crazy those who grow up in societies suffused with Islam really are, crazy and malevolent."
Boy is that right. And they're bringing that insanity and malevolence with them to the West.
Worst of all, had the US not intervened in Afghanistan, the Thug-in-chief would be boasting about how Muslims humiliated the paper-tiger-great-Shaitan. Now, with his country seeing US soldiers on two of its borders, he's whining that it was a plot of the US Government itself and, of course, the JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZ.
But, could it be that this Muslim unwillingness to face truth is one of the things that will ultimately bring the whole lying ediface that is Islam crashing down about everyone's ears?
This is not the first time Ahmadinejad has denied 9/11. From 2008:
"Ahmadinejad: 9/11 'suspect event'"
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has described the 9/11 attacks on the Twin Towers in New York as a "suspect event" and queried the death toll.
"A building collapsed and they said 3,000 people had been killed but never published their names," he said in a speech in the holy city of Qom.
........................
This of course is entirely false. I have a published copy of the 9/11 by the San Francisco Chronicle from a few weeks after the atrocity. I have attended two memorials where the names were read—there have been similar events at anniversary memorials at Ground Zero. Not that any array of facts would matter to Ahmadinejad, of course.
The odd thing is, that if things were just a bit different politically, he would likely be touting 9/11 as a great victory for Islam.
Lying, also taqiyya, seems to be in the Islamic blood. They have no conscience.
Ahmadinejad appears to be a combined Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels and Goering reincarnate. Evil man.
"September 11 was a big lie and a pretext for the war on terror and a prelude to invading Afghanistan"
"Incredible. Evil."
Agreed, darcy ...and what's even more incredible are the evil folks that believe this preposterous LIE.
The odd thing is you will find Muslims on one hand praising 9/11 among their fellow believers, yet claiming it was the Jews who were behind it when speaking the kuffar.
this liar displays so much confidence at using falsehood that he would dispute with his father-at-heart. is he in for a surprise.
the moral equivalence folks should really do a study on truth and integrity (as in the Unique God), but;equivalence is a falsehood in this arena. no hope for them either.
we are facing a demon of a man, personifying evil.
Here's the story I cited in my last post:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7350830.stm
You know I always wondered about those attacks. It was nice of him to clear everything up for me.
Monkeyman says these things to be quoted in the msm. For if he said sane, rational things, the msm would ignore him.
Pretty soon he and his country will get what is coming to them. You can scream outrageous lies for only so long before they are believed and you get hit in the nose for them.
Musta been Hollyweird then.
This mental disease is spreading, though.
Malaysia's loony ex PM Mahathir Mohammed said similar things just a month ago, citing the movie Avatar: those who can create such illusions can also fabricate 9/11...
So there you have it.
More Muslimthink.
Even President Bush admitted in Delhi in November , 2009 that the US would have attacked Afghanistan and Iraq had there been no 9/11.
He also mentioned that a group of intellectuals like Irvin Kristol etc had already made up their mind about attacking Iraq.
Lies by nature can go many ways were truth only has one way.
If you asked for the time from this pretender I would question the answer. Lies have a nasty habit of contradicting themselves.
He is just acting like our own government leaders. Frankly I think our politicians are better lairs. The MSM is a close second however. Ahmadinejad is a minor leaguer in this area because we have more information and can quickly see through him.
John 8:44 You are of [your] father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [resources], for he is a liar and the father of it.
يوحنا 8:44 انت من [ك] الأب الشيطان ، ورغبات والدك تريد القيام به. انه قاتل من البداية ، وليس الوقوف في الحقيقة ، لأنه لا يوجد في الحقيقة له. عندما يتحدث كذب ، وقال انه يتحدث من تلقاء نفسه [الموارد] ، لأنه كذاب والده له.
Virgil wrote:
The odd thing is you will find Muslims on one hand praising 9/11 among their fellow believers, yet claiming it was the Jews who were behind it when speaking the kuffar.
....................
Very true, Virgil. In many cases, if Muslims believe an event reflects well on Islam, they will take credit for it—if it reflects poorly, or causes them inconvenience, then it is the action of the filthy kufr, trying to make Muslims look bad.
Objective facts don't seem to be a concern. Some Muslims seem to *simultaneously* consider atrocities like 9/11 to be *both* a great victory for the Mujihedeen *and* a perfidious act by Mossad and the CIA.
I first observed this bizarre cognitive dissonance when, shortly after 9/11, I saw a clip of a journalist interviewing a group of men and boys about the act of terrorism (I think it was in Indonesia). One of the men was—as usual—claiming that Muslims had nothing to do with 9/11. The men around him were vociferously agreeing—including the boy wearing a t-shirt *with a picture of bin Laden juxtaposed with the burning towers*.
Even President Bush admitted in Delhi in November , 2009 that the US would have attacked Afghanistan and Iraq had there been no 9/11.
He also mentioned that a group of intellectuals like Irvin Kristol etc had already made up their mind about attacking Iraq.
I like Hugh's explanation of why I'm-a-Nut-Job got how he is nuts.
As much as I am deeply concerned about Islamofascism and the spread of Islam in the West, I must point out that the recent utterances re the September 11th attacks from "Thug-in-Chief" are very close to the truth.
There is no way the impacts and subsequent burning kerosene ["A1 jet fuel"] could have brought down the Twin Towers. It was nanothermite! I have the official "9/11 Report", which doesn't even mention "WTC BUILDING 7", which also collapsed! Just this fact alone should make Americans think about actually happened! Like the Twin Towers, WTC 7 was imploded, using nanothermite! Then, there's the Pentagon, Shanksville crash, etc.
Do some research!
Bush and Cheney should be brought to book by the American people and, hopefully, they will be in due course.
I am most grateful for Robert Spencer's work in exposing Islam for what it really is: a socio-political fascist sytem - not just "a religion".
Good to see no one feeding the thing the Three Billy Goats Gruff got to deal with -- despite double provocation...
Did that last night. Complete waste of time..
Trufer removal, puleeezze!
Oi,lunatic, the US Government didn't carry out the 9/11 atrocity. No US Administration would have dared to do such a thing. That was a wicked atrocity carried out by Muslim terrorists. The last thing the West needs is cranks like yourself. You belong in a mental asylum, along with the rest of the troofers.
Utterly absurd and preposterous. Not worthy of consideration by intelligent life. Appropriate only for those desperate for a conspiracy. Crackpot-ism at its worst. Useful only to the enemy. Laughable. Pitiable. Not deserving of further comment.
Please make haste to your nearest mental health facility.
Ahmadshithead always blames the West in general and the Jews in particular for anything that goes wrong on this planet. If there is a traffic jam in Tehran, it's probably the Mossad who played a dirty trick. Ahmadshithead is addicted to his conspiracy theories, he needs them like other pepole need the air that they breathe, that's nothing new. He's a moron, his IQ is a little bit above absolute zero, but the companion of his moronism is his evilness, a very dangerous combination. Fortunately his face betrays his evilness, it's plain to see for everybody.
"Ahmadinejad's comments, made during an address to Intelligence Ministry..."
"Ahmadinejad's comments, made during an address to the Ministry of Truth..."
There. Fixed it.
Iran's thug-in-chief did not originate this idea. Our own domestic conspiracy nuts have peddled this. The Left and extreme elements on the Right come up with anti-American scenarios that the Mideast crazies latch on to and promote.
Obviously your 'research' is based on fantasy, right wing conspiracies and other such garbage thinking. If you knew anything about basic science and materials, the following would be obvious:
1. The jet fuel burned almost within seconds, it only started the fire, it did not cause the inferno following which was really caused by paper, carpets, ceiling insulation, etc;
2. The impact was sufficient to weaken some structures mainly the outer steel skeleton, however it is obvious these did not cause the actual collapses;
3.As the fire burned, the steel started to sag, since steel does not have to melt in order to reach a state of plastic deformation; once one level collapsed on top of another, a phenomena of all matter called momentum (which you do not seem to understand) created a cascade, each collapse adding to the mass and consequent momemtum, eventually even the intact floor beams' strength exceeded the load, and the rest is history.
You obviously have too much time on your hands, have been reading too many conspiracy websites, cant think your way out of a paper bag, or as suggested, need to get serious help.
"Fortunately his face betrays his evilness, it's plain to see for everybody."
Oh yes, that's obvious. A minion of satan.
For starters, please tell me what caused WTC7 to collapse? If you can't come up with an answer, go to http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646.
Whomever was behind the September 11 2001 attacks, you can be sure it wasn't a raghead and his mullahs in a cave in Afghanistan!
Nonetheless, Jihad Watchers, I'm 100% with you in keeping an eye on encroaching Islamism, especially in in Europe and the USA, and if our Iranian "Thug-in-Chief" threatens Israel in particular, or the West in general, he should be reminded that Mecca could easily be nuked!
I can assure you, Jose, (and Darcy, George and "Spirit of 1683, as well) that I'm no conspiracy-theory left-wing geek with too much time on my hands. I am both an engineer and a thinker and I believe I know the real truth about what really happened on that terrible September day, almost 9 years ago.
However, I will change my tune, if SOMEONE, perhaps even you, Jose, can come up with an explanation as to how WTC7 collapsed into a pile of rubble, even if 2 smallish airplanes did, in fact, bring the massive Twin Towers down! And, do keep in mind that these buildings were designed to withstand the impact of much larger airplanes, eg the Boeing 707, the largest passenger airplane at the time of the buildings' design.
Do check out THE TOP 40 REASONS TO DOUBT THE OFFICIAL STORY OF SEPTEMBER 11th, 2001 and put your thinking-cap on!
With much respect and best wishes.
Rick Spencer
So America decided that Shah of Iran had to go in 1979 right? and now complain about the taste of their own Medicine ? get used to it and read a very good book called : HOSTAGE TO KHOMEINI by Robert Dreyfus .
I'd say 60-70% of the middle east believes that 9/11 was a US CIA conspiracy or that Israel was behind it.
To the 9/11 conspiracy people, tower 7 fell as a result of fire. Ask any of the firefighers that were at the scene. They will tell you that the fire was overwhelming even if it was not captured that way by TV. Even if I wanted to believe 9/11 was a conspiracy, I couldn't believe it. I'm a person who looks at the evidence at the evidence for a conspiracy just isn't there. It would be far too hard to pull off. The government can't even keep small things a secret.
Good on you Rick for questioning the official conspiracy theory re 911. Brave man! 'I'madinnerjacket' may not be right on much but he's close on some of his 911 comments. Like you Rick I am utterly opposed to Islam and am extremely grateful to Robert and co for this site - read most of the stuff each day, and have read most of Robert's books. However I do not accept 911 was a Jihad attack.
It's interesting and disturbing to note the level of animosity, and name calling that is expressed against anyone who questions the official conspiracy idea. It appears to me that many of those who have commented in such vein cannot have done any critical research into the matter. The collapses of WTC1 and 2 (explosive collapses), and 7 (implosion) could not have been caused by the planes or subsequent fires, rather bear all the hallmarks of planned demolition. Now that nanothermite and remnants have been discovered in the dust, that should begin to make at least some official story believers begin to doubt. And regarding the dust, how come all the the thousands of tons of concrete got turned to dust and blown away? Why didn't it all end up in a heap on the ground if it was just a regular collapse?
The best sites I have found to objectively look at the whole issue is http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html and its companion site http://911review.com/
Hi Sonshine... Indeed, you have brought up some good points. To the others, those who do not want to open their minds to the truth, I say with you: "VERITAS VOS LIBERABIT".
Lets not forget this ....
Osama Bin Laden Admits Planning 9/11 in Meeting with Egyptian Terrorist, taped by Al Qaeda @ 5:30:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qloshSGAJ1s
champ: Why don't you have a look at those two sites I mentioned to you? You would come to realise that it is a lot more complicated than you seem to think, and that an acceptance of responsibility for it doesn't come anywhere near addressing that complexity. For sure such statements need to be assessed, but in the overall context. The deciding issue is not what this or that person said, or may have said, but the collapses of the buildings. I will repeat, there is simply no way the planes or the fires could have even caused the buildings to collapse, let alone collapse in the way they did. Thus the logical conclusion is that it was explosives inside the buildings (which is very strongly supported by all the video/photographic, and much eye-witness evidence)...which then leads on to 'who planted them and how, and why?' etc.
I have said before, I would far prefer to accept the official conspiracy story as it makes the world a far simpler place. However the official conspiracy story is shot through with inconsistencies and anomalies that render it untenable. I do not have, and no one has, a handle on it totally, but one thing is clear, the official conspiracy story does not hold water.
Some Americans may have some psychological resistance to questioning the official conspiracy line, and I can understand that. But never the less, that questioning needs to be done.
What is needed is a truly independent inquiry into the cause of the collapses which does not rule out a priori any possibility just because they may lead to unwelcome conclusions.
"Why don't you have a look at those two sites I mentioned to you?"
Fair enough ...I will.
Truthers,
There's nothing to debate here, nothing to discuss. There are obvious engineering answers as to what brought the buildings down.
Even if this were a legitimate, debateable topic (which it isn't), it would be a shame to trash this site with it.
That's fine if you want to believe this nonsense, even if it brings comfort to the jihadi perpetrators. There are no laws against crackpot-ism. So, go ahead and have your fun--somewhere else would be good...
George: Perhaps you should go and have a look at those sites I mentioned also. Hand waving and name calling such as you have done, don't respond in anyway to the very seriously analysis and research which calls into question the official conspiracy theory.
If 'there are obvious engineering answers to what brought the buildings down' as you claim, why have they not been given, either by you or anyone else? Why have a variety of alternatives been offered, then withdrawn? Why did the official reports misrepresent the structures of the towers by leaving out the 47 massive central core columns? And why did the original report not even mention WTC7? And how do you explain the presence in the 911 dust of nonothermite and remnants?
See:
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/thermitics_made_simple.html
and:
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html
Hi George... For "engineering answers", go to 9/11 ENGINEERS & ARCHITECTS FOR TRUTH: http://www.ae911truth.org/
Hi George... For "engineering answers", go to 9/11 ENGINEERS & ARCHITECTS FOR TRUTH: http://www.ae911truth.org/
Guys, (Rick & Sonshine)
Sorry, I've been off for a couple of days here.
I do think this site is not appropriate for this discussion...but...here's a little context:
I'm a manufacturing engineer for 25 years with a Fortune-200 aerospace firm.
In 2002, two of our excellent structural-folks did their own study (on their own time)on the mechanics of the buildings' collapse. They considered every known fact, and with consulting-assistance from our Materials-Engineering group, produced a most professional presentation, within the format of an FMEA (Failure Modes Effects Analysis).
This was also presented as an in-house seminar. All factors, including allowable- loads with margins, building construction, materials and their properties (especially with respect to thermal causes, parameters & effects), energy releases at impact, subsequent preload forces, collapse-mechanics...
I could go on but you get the idea. Not one of the professionals who saw this presentation left the room with any doubts. The only caveat is that this did not include WTC 7 but was limited to towers 1 and 2.
I feel I owe you guys an apology. You've been most polite in the face of my negative comments. I understand that you genuinely believe what you're saying. But...we're not going to change one-anothers minds on this.
I think the best we can do is to agree to disagree & I'm OK with that...
Thanks!
G
Hi George
Thanks for your reply. I agree this is not the greatest site for a discussion about this... and this is not intended to drag it out. However...
...the 2 towers were designed with very large safety margins to withstand a fully laden Boeing 707 flying into them - which are roughly the same size as the 767's that hit them. The second plane did not even hit the centre core of the WTC2 (South Tower) but exited on the other side along with most of its fuel, yet the South tower was the first to fall.
There are two options re the collapses: Either the collapses were designed or they weren't. If the collapses weren't designed - as the official conspiracy theory says - then there is simply no way that that the thousands of tones of concrete in the buildings would be turned to dust. The floors would more or less be stacked up in a heap on the ground - if the collapse was simply due to structural failure. This was not the case. The concrete was all pulverized and blown away.
Further, The central cores of the buildings were immensely strong, consisting of 47 vertical columns anchored to bedrock and tapering to the top. This central core was utterly destroyed/shredded, right to the ground.
Further, sections of the perimeter columns were ejected at high speed (>70mph) from the towers and some stuck in surrounding buildings like arrows.
Further, the collapses were at just over free fall speed, meaning that the massively strong structures of the buildings did not impede the collapses in any way. The towers came down at virtually the same speed as free falling rubble.
Further, no detailed analysis was ever made of the rubble. It was simply scooped up and sent off to China...unbelievable!
Clearly you are a thinking person. These points surely should raise alarms bells that something is not right with the official story.
And then of course there is WTC7 which fell at 5-20pm, straight down at free fall speed onto its footprint - between other buildings. Once again the concrete was pulverized, and the structure of the building did not slow the fall.
For about 3 years I accepted the official story, until I saw a video of the collapse of WTC7 - which by the way I had never heard of till that day. That video showing the 6.5 second collapse, convinced me in the time it took to play, that finger prints were all over this collapse. It was not an unplanned event. But if it was not an unplanned collapse, then it was a planned collapse - which unfortunately means it was an insider job...end of story.
The sites I have pointed you to have an enormous amount of material on them. If you want to see videos of the collapses, there are heaps there - as many as you could ever want - plus still photos galore. The full plans of the buildings are there as well - it just goes on and on and on...plus very sober analysis of all the evidence and the anomolies
Sonshine's eloquent comments are much appreciated and I, for one, thank him for that.
It's time the American people (including "Jihad Watchers") started thinking for themselves and started doing their own research. Evidence of the "inside job", and that it definitely was, can be easily found on the internet.
Hopefully by the 10th anniversary of 9/11 next year the truth will finally come out! There should be much discussion in the printed and electronic media, as well as television, an all thinking people should get on with it!
"VERITAS VOS LIBERABIT"