While so many captives to wishful thinking in the West continue to place their hope in Islamic reformers gaining a wide following, this is generally the fate of those who actually question Islam's tenets. Islamic Tolerance Alert from the Kingdom of the Two Holy Places (and more on this story): "Head of the religious police in Mecca, men and women can pray together," from AsiaNews, April 27 (thanks to Block Ness):
Riyadh (AsiaNews) - The Saudi official news agency, SPA, had reported his dismissal only to delete all reports a few hours later, a fatwa says "he should be killed," the Grand Mufti has denied his authority to speak about Islamic law. He, Ahmed al Ghamdi, head of the religious police in Mecca, the first holy city of Islam, confirms his convictions: men and women can pray together and meet freely, even if only in public.The episode has been strictly censored by Saudi Arabia, monitored by the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, the official name of the muttawa, the religious police. Of which Ghamdi is a senior official.
The question of the possibility of men and women "mixing" - in public, never in private - has for weeks been at the centre of a debate between scholars and politicians. Thus, the Saudi newspaper The National, has devoted a long article to the story, recalling the words of the Justice Minister Muhammad al Issa who warned against confusing public promiscuity, which he believes is allowed by Islam, with meetings in private between men and women who are neither married nor related by kinship, which is prohibited.
The problem is not merely one of religious tradition, it also has economic implications. The ban has in fact heavy negative influences on women's employment and foreign investment since it requires gender division even in the offices of international companies.
So, since December, when Ghamdi first spoke out on the issue, the question has occupied newspapers and television programs. A debate which is due to the climate of moderate reforms that King Abdullah is introducing into the country in an attempt to modernize it.
But the reaction of conservatives has been very hard. If Ghamdhi argues that the division did not exist at the time of Mohammed his opposers cry of violations of Sharia and apostasy.
Memo to Asia News: "conservatives" generally do not advocate the strict separation of the sexes, or call for the murder of those who oppose that separation.
Sheikh Abdulrahman Al Barrak has issued a fatwa which says that promiscuity "as supported by modernists" is prohibited because it allows "the sight of what is forbidden and prohibited conversations between men and women." Anyone who facilitates such promiscuity is an infidel", and if not retracted "should be killed". And finally, anyone who allows his daughter, sister or wife to work with men or to attend a mixed school is guilty of "a kind of prostitution"....
Silence I kill you.
The Qur'an cannot be abridged, interpreted or changed. The original is in Heaven.
The implication of this belief is plain. No matter who challenges Islamic orthodoxy, they have no standing in Islam. It is fundamentalism run amok. Islam lurches along, a dead monster from the sands of time, crushing all attempts to reform it.
It is easy to see that the first victims of Islam are the Muslims who believe in it. As victims, it is easy for believers to turn on the kuffars (who are not people in the Qur'an) and take out their anger on mankind.
It will be a long war, but we must never submit.
Anyone who facilitates such promiscuity is an infidel", and if not retracted "should be killed".
..........................
So—Ahmed al Ghamdi has been declared apostate for his views, and the penalty for apostasy *is death*.
How could Ahmed al Ghamdi—*the head of the Muttawa in the city of Mecca*—not have known the response he was likely to elicit in "the Kingdom of the two Holy places"?
Another important question is this—if someone with the Ialamic bona fides of *the head of the Meccan Muttawa* can be declared apostate for suggesting Muslim men and women might pray together, what hope is there for any other reformer in Islam?
I imagine this Fatwa gives the answer to that.
They are all equal in the eye's of Allah...
But some are more equal than others...A while back I read a news article about an escaped female household slave who was captured and raped, by forty six (46) men (all Mahoundians), including the policeman who arrested her...This happened in the sterling city of Mecca...Right under Allah's nose...
Since Allah had no comment, and no fatwas were issued on the rapists, it would appear that mass rape in Mecca, is just fine...At least they can't blame the joo's for that...
Anybody have Ahmed al Ghamdi's email? I would like to send him a bible for christmas.
He sounds like hes prime for the picking.(sacasm intended)
"Islam lurches along, a dead monster from the sands of time, crushing all attempts to reform it."
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For as evil and malignant as Mo and the subsequent Caliphs were, they were certainly not stupid. I am constantly amazed and frustrated by how many (endless?) safeguards against any change were built into Islam, right from the very beginning. It's almost as if they'd said "we will spend our lives developing this perfectly unalterable ideology -- one that is, in almost every conceivable way, impervious to reform or revision."
Of course, that's the beginning of the movie, but by the end, you know the good guy's are going to find the cracks, exploit them, and bring the "perfect ideology" crashing down onto the heads of Dr. Evil and mini Mo.
Note to Robert: your definition of "conservative" is parochial.
Australia's sheik Fehmi, (catmeat sheik Hilali's sock-puppet) promised to end segregation in mosques.
I marked the day on my calendar.
Now, one and a half year later it seems to have fizzled, nobody ever heard anything about it:
http://sheikyermami.com/2009/12/08/sheik-fehmi-one-year-later/
"Note to Robert: your definition of "conservative" is parochial."
Not at all.
Since when are conservatives in Western society just like "conservative" Muslims in Teheran or Sowdi Barbaria? This is deliberate distortion of language by the leftist media. Robert is 100 % correct rejecting this nonsense.
For keeps:
If language is not correct, then what is said is not what is meant; if what is said is not what is meant, then what must be done remains undone; if this remains undone, morals and art will deteriorate; if justice goes astray, the people will stand about in helpless confusion. Hence there must be no arbitrariness in what is said. This matters above everything.
—Confucius
What Confucius said. To name is to know, to know is to control.
*** 8:7 ***
The name of Islam = Submit, and that's used in the active voice, not the passive.
*** 33:21 ***
So these people, these Moslems, such as they are, have clarity. They have purpose. They are purpose-driven. They lead purpose-driven lives.
That's I "keel" you! :)
Have you noted the low quality of apologist we've been experiencing lately?
Not only are they of low quality, but they have been mostly recycled banned apologists that can't get enough ass whoopin'.
There just don't seem to be that many good muslims out there that are ready to step up and defend their chosen "religion".
Kinda hard to defend the indefensible I guess.
islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.
The only thing that surprises me is that they waited so long to do issue the fatwa.
I'm surprised the head of the Saudi religious police wasn't already dead by the time we heard about his opinion that men and women could pray together.
Hey Robert, maybe someone could buy some advertising space on Saudi buses?
To call for mixed prayer: Death!
To apostasize: Death!
To be gay: Death!
Commit adultery: Death!
Refuse to convert or dhimmify: Death!
Blaspheme: Death!
Oppose Jihad: Death!
Eat catfish stew: Death! - Well, I'm not sure about that one.
In any case, I'll let the experts continue the list. Man, Islam sure is rough on the life insurance industry.
Mww, sheik yer'mami, made his elementary mistake because he can't distinguish between 'conservative' and 'reactionary'. This is a common error made by those on the Left and they rarely learn, but then they rarely learn about a great deal of things, for instance that political correctness and multiculturalism are total crap, and so nothing's new here. Nonetheless, you were right to call him out on this, though I doubt he will profit by it.
The Koran is a farrago of plagiarized misquotes from the Old and (gnostically-tinged) New Testament, grab-bag Arabian myths, and the slimy personal revenge fantasies of one very sick man.
Belief in it shows a mind that will not think, but only cower.
The sooner this death cult dies out the better our world will be.
While it is understandable that self-described conservatives such as Robert, Sheik-yer'mami and Wellington might want to preserve the purity of their particular definition of the word "conservative" by trying police its usage, they would do well to bear in mind that the English language is much (much) bigger than they are, and will pay them little heed.
Get a dictionary, and deal.
Is mww the self-appointed heir to William F. Buckley Jr.?
While so many captives to wishful thinking in the West continue to place their hope in Islamic reformers gaining a wide following, this is generally the fate of those who actually question Islam's tenets.
I don't hold out much hope either, but we should remember that this was often the fate of the Christian reformers as well.
And, as I've pointed out many times, Muslims fundamentalists may not be Republicans, but they definitely are conservatives.