MAJOR VICTORY FOR FREE SPEECH AND RELIGIOUS FREEDOM: SIOA BUS ADS ARE GOING BACK UP

"Oh Happy Day!!! What good news :)"

Ditto! SO ditto! Bravo!

When I see people like Spencer and the rest of his "supporters" working their hardest and spending a lot of time and effort to debase Islam and Muslims, one verse from the Qur'aan comes to mind, very amazing how it spells out things so clearly:

And Muslims dont?
Do you have any idea how much CAIR spends promoting Islam and all the evils it stands for.
This oppressive sickness called Islam will never defeat the free will of men/women in this country.

"CAIR being slapped down by a lawyer with a Jewish-sounding name. Gotta love that eh?"

YES! Bravo Jewish lawyer David Yerushalmi! Defeat "cair," the Islamic Barbarians.

"Kill non-Muslims wherever you find them. Lie in wait and ambush them, seize and capture them using every stratagem of war." - Qur'an 9:5

DEFEAT JIHAD!

I don't usually feed the trolls, but it's been a while...

Did he spend his wealth for those in Haiti for example?

I can't speak for Robert, but millions of us did spend our "wealth" (ya right) to help those in Haiti. How much did you send?

Are ALL Muslims somehow CAIR?

What are your and the others here obsession with CAIR?

I'm wondering why is CAIR the center of your attention when this ad is about Muslims, not CAIR.

Bug off, stupid Muslim Troll.

I didn't ask HOW MUCH, seriously do you even read your own bible?

Matthew 6

2. "So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
3. "But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,

I spent my money and how much is not your business or anyone else's. That's with me and God.

What I've asked is, why do you people spend your money, when people are suffering, people are now becoming more and more homeless, jobs are being lost, etc. etc. (YES IN MY COUNTRY --- the USA!)

Don't you think it's wiser and more sensible to spend your wealth that God GAVE you on helping people?

Granted, you detest Islam, but somehow you have this delusion that you can stop Islam? I mean seriously, people have been trying this for centuries, you can't stop it.

So, spend your money on something worthwhile. Feed the poor and help the homeless.

Bugger off, Caveman!

Me no like haters of cair. why be mad to cair? muslims not all cair. cair say all muslims be cair. cair lie and threaten but allah say good. allah say ok. allah and profit best. listen to profit or die. Smite! O believer, smite!! drag aisha to bed. good. so good. Aisha 9. 9 good. Hadith say 9 good. hamas like 9 to hide behind. profit just like 9 behind. allah say good.

Wrong-o,

This ad is about the freedom to LEAVE Islam, with out the normal persicution that they would face from their family, and community.

Every time a Moslem posts a line of false scripture it makes me think of this verse. Also in reference to the false prophet Mohammed. (There is no peace in hell.)

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Jhn 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Islam is a false religion, created by the greatest deciever. Satan.

You are decieved.

"Granted, you detest Islam, but somehow you have this delusion that you can stop Islam? I mean seriously, people have been trying this for centuries, you can't stop it."

Oh yes we can. Just as we stopped Fascism and Nazism.

Capische? Good can stop evil - get it?

We can't stop Islam? Oh yes we can. Islam is doomed because it rests upon false assertions by its fraudulent, psychopathic founder. Every year more and more millions across the world awaken to the fact that Islam is not just a religion but a supremacist, totalitarian ideology as well. Just think about how many untold millions of folks across the world detest Islam who didn't just a decade ago. These numbers will rise precipitously with each passing decade. Islam has become the most despised religion on earth and with good reason. The more one knows about Islam and Mohammed, the more disgusted one is with both. As AlaskanInfidel has posted innumerable times, Islam is a lie and truth is killing it.

"They will burn in Hell with the neo-cons Jooooz who have no respect for the Religion of Peace! I kill you! I kill you!"

Funny. Sounds like an Eric Cartman rant.

This is good news.

I'll be looking forward to seeing the results. If we can help even 1 convert, that's worth the effort.

What city will the adds go up next. Might I suggest Columbus Ohio?

Long live freedom!

"Islam, the so-called "religion of peace"

That's like calling Nazism the Ideology of Love.

I must admit that I, too, feared the complaint would fail. I allowed negative and depressing thoughts about the chances of a reversal overwhelm me. I am so glad I was wrong! Seems that sometimes, just when you feel an opponent is very strong, that opponent may actually prove to be very weak.

Chalk one up for the good guys!

"idiot" like post, by the way.

Makes no sense whatsoever.... go back to school under that rock in yemen.

"Islam is a Religion of Peace in the same way that North Korea is a People's Democratic Republic."

-Pat Condell-

Phobia;
I'm working on the assumption that you are a Muslim, not an apologist.
CAIR says one thing here in America and another on the other side of the world.
They are deceiving the American government and the American people.
Yankel is correct that few Americans no the evils of Islam and Alaskan Infidel is correct in the Truth is killing it.

And I made a donation as well. Money well spent!

Eleanor,

OOOHHH you made me laugh so hard with your caveman bit. Thank you so much for that, it was brilliant.

Lorgan,

You are right. Fighting against Islam is like the ultimate humanitarian charity, considering what you have said how could you even think of contributing to another type of philanthropic effort? It is like ... as the saying goes killing two birds with one stone, but in this case 1,000 birds (social injustices) with a single stone.

We should give Islamophobia, and those like Islamophobia, a break. A very lengthy break. All their lives they've been steeped in the creed of a madman; a 7th century bi-polar, epileptic, sociopathic, pedophilic, misogynist blasphemer and dromedary-excretions recommending demagogue.

So, with the example of such a role model to follow, the "Perfect Man," al-insan al-kamil -- Muhammad -- how can his worshipers possibly ever go right?

And they do worship him. They say "no, it's Allah," but I don't buy it. There are effectively two "gods" in Islam, and the "greater" of the two is Muhammad.

Islam is a de facto polytheistic "religion."

You're welcome! Just occassionally, I like to drag "Mo the Islamic Caveman" out to give him a break from all that arsewagging in the dirt. LOL.

LMAO. Everytime someone comes into this site on the pro Islam side its like their jumping into a pool of starving Pirannas.

>>Please explain what is offensive about the ads. No doubt there are some Muslims who *are* able to openly convert to another faith, or to become open atheists or agnostics, without experiencing death threats or other severe pressure from fellow Muslims. However, as you surely are aware, many Muslims *cannot* choose to stop being Muslim, at least not openly, for fear of violent retaliation.

I myself have family members who are OPENLY Christian, who OPENLY left Islam. For example, my aunt married a Christian man after her divorce of a Muslim husband. She subsequently became Christian as we're all still family. I mean, she's a Christian in the sense of a real Christian, not the hate mongers on this site who give a really bad reputation of true Christians. Seriously, just look at some of these comments. What would Jesus say?

As for the ads being offensive, I could care more or less about he ads, I'm simply stating that it's a waste of finances, which could go to better use. I would say the same thing about Muslims if they posted an ad "Leaving Christianity..."

>>Why would you not want those being threatened, or fearful of being threatened, to seek help?

I would want them to see help, however, I hardly think anything associated with Spencer is about helping people. Again, the records speak for itself. A living example is this site and the hatred it spews.

>>Is it because you believe, as Islam mandates, that apostates must be killed?

I've debunked the myths of this apostasy with one of your fellow JWers, see here:
http://www.islamophobia.org/news.php?readmore=564

See the comments as well.

>>If you do not, what is the basis of your objection?
I am not objecting as much as simply stating that you are all wasting your time and resources which can be better used to serve HUMANITY, by doing humane deeds such as feeding the poor, helping the needy, etc. etc.

This Information age and the integration of islam into democracies is truly going to expose Islam for what it really is, an oppressive system.
Islam will never be able to stand up to the scrutiny of the American people (maybe the politicians but not the people)and the Koran and Hadith's are readily available in this information age, all one has to do is read them.
The information available along with our rights to free assembly and speech will doom Islam.

Pamela Geller said "Truth is the new hate speech."

Alaskan Infidel said "Truth is killing Islam"

Phobia, thanks for the info on the link.

#1."You will notice that throughout all of Spencer's videos and books, he'll make a subtle but direct links between the behavior of some Muslims and a correlation with the teachings of Islam, when in reality, not all Muslims practice ISLAM AS IT SHOULD BE. This is not untrue for any other faiths, such as Christianity and Judaism. Each member of their respective faith oftentimes practice their faith according to their own interpretations or at some level, obtain their practices from their families, friends or spiritual leaders, which may or may not be in conformity with the actual teachings from their respective scriptures."

#2. "First of all, to take this CHILD'S hysterical words as factual without going through the normal process of the legal system to verify if they are indeed true should be a red flag for the average intelligent viewer."

Phobia, I stopped there.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!
YOUR NOT A MUSLIM!!!!!!

re: #1. There is no half way. You either beleive the Koran is the infallable, unquestionable word of god or you dont.

re: #2. Muhammad was banging a 9 year old. Rifqa is soon to be 18.

Any muslim who would say or back such words in the middle east would be punished. In Islam there is no halfway, you either beleive the Koran is the infallable word of god and consider Muhammad the perfect example of man or you dont.
There is no halfway.

"...you have this delusion that you can stop Islam..."

Sorry, pal, the delusion is on your side. The West stopped Islam before, but at the time didn't have the means to finish the job as it should have, and in the intervening years got distracted by other things, like inventing the modern world. But you're coming back into our radar again with the same old crap you've been pulling for the last 1400 years. This time we'll do a better job. We're smarter, and have better weapons, whereas your side is still stuck trying to replay the 1683 thing hoping the results will turn out different. It won't.

Islam got a temporary reprise from its terminal decline with the discovery of oil, but they're squandering the money on resurrecting its mad scheme to conquer the world. But the tides of history are moving strongly against it, even though Muslims are in denial about this. Its eventual disappearance as a political force is inevitable, although it'll flop around noisily as it dies and is very likely to leave a big mess behind, as it is already in the process of doing.

You remain as clueless as ever. Yes, there are a few who post here at JW who hate all Muslims but the vast majority at this web site, myself included, hate Islam, not all Muslims. As Abraham Lincoln observed, one can hate the sin (in this case Islam) without necessarily hating the sinner (i.e., Muslims). What you can't seem to get through your head is that Islam is perceived increasingly as an aberrational religion. Deeply, profoundly so.

Islam, for many who have studied its history and doctrines, comes across as a very sick, supremacist, freedom-crushing ideology. It's not nearly good enough to just dismiss all those who find Islam reprehensible as haters. Why don't you address many specific criticisms, such as the founder of Islam having sexual intercourse with a nine-year old girl when in his fifties, the Sharia doctrine that asserts that a woman must produce at least four male witnesses to substantiate a charge of rape and the Islamic dictate that all constitutional and legal systems must eventually be replaced with Islamic religious law? While you're at it, tell me why it's OK for Muslims to come to Western countries, preach their faith, seek converts and build their houses of worship, but it's not OK for non-Muslims to preach their faith, seek converts and build their houses of worship in Muslim lands, starting here with Saudi Arabia. Get my drift or are you only going to go back to the tired old mantra that those who find Islam very disturbing are merely hateful people?

Not just a "Jewish sounding name". Yerushalmi means "of Jerusalem". (Wow, that's gotta' hurt!)

Read your link about debunking the myth that apostates from Islam should be killed. Aside from the fact that you take cheap shots at Robert Spencer in your screed, what you don't get because you live in "cluless land" is that no other religion has a debate about whether apostates should be harmed or killed. Don't you see that by discussing how some Muslims think apostates should be dealt with severely and others think otherwise, that you unwittingly condemn Islam? Can you imagine Methodists or Orthodox Jews sitting around a table and debating whether someone who leaves the faith should be harmed or terminated? Wake up, if you can, which I kinda' doubt is possible since you've been brainwashed by a totalitarian system that goes by the name of Islam.

Pamela Geller said "Truth is the new hate speech."

Alaskan Infidel said "Truth is killing Islam"

DefenderOfIslam said "Who ever killed than human being except by the way of Justive or touble maker in the land and the autherity is as he killed all of mankind. It is than poor translate of the Arbic word."

English is dying,
DefenderOfIslam is killing it!

"I've debunked the myths about this apostasy with one of your fellow JWers..."

Oh you did, eh? It's interesting, then, that so many of your "islamic scholars" aren't convinced of your "debunking" job.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/apostasy.htm

I also read the article per your link. The author says that execution for apostasy is only for "traitors" in time of war. But there's NOTHING there to support that interpretation! (though there was plenty of space for ad-hominem attacks on Mr. Spencer) So where does it say that?
Or is that just a chocolate-covered taqiyya-sunrise version when the truth is just too shameful?

Do you deny the stories reported by Mr. Spencer?

Do you deny the Arizona muslim father who ran over--and killed his daughter?

Do you deny the killing of Amina & Sarah by their muslim father for being too "Western?"

Do you deny the beheading of the wife in Buffalo, NY following separation from her muslim husband?

And so many more...

And what, again, is the percentage of muslims in America? And these crimes are ALREADY surfacing? And you blame US for not wanting this pestilence to fester in our society? And we were kind enough to allow these people into our country? A bitter harvest, methinks!

Go ahead, try to sugar-coat the turd with your fast-lane, "Western," benign, "Hey, we're just a bunch of reasonable folks," caricatures of the truth. In fact, you should try to sell this down at your local mosque. You may want to double-check your life-insurance first, though...

Wellington : ...the vast majority at this web site, myself included, hate Islam, not all Muslims.

Sorry, but here I have to disagree with you, sir.

I detest any group of people who willingly embrace such hateful tenets and inflict such misery on so many.

Without moslems there would be no islam.

Kinana of Khaybar : This is a major step for freedom of expression and freedom to change religions.

Ahem.....or better yet to ditch religion altogether.

"I've debunked the myths about this apostasy with one of your fellow JWers..."

Oh you did, eh? It's interesting, then, that so many of your "islamic scholars" aren't convinced of your "debunking" job.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/apostasy.htm

I also read the article per your link. The author says that execution for apostasy is only for "traitors" in time of war. But there's NOTHING there to support that interpretation! (though there was plenty of space for ad-hominem attacks on Mr. Spencer) So where does it say that?
Or is that just a chocolate-covered taqiyya-sunrise version when the truth is just too shameful?

Do you deny the stories reported by Mr. Spencer?

Do you deny the Arizona muslim father who ran over--and killed his daughter?

Do you deny the killing of Amina & Sarah by their muslim father for being too "Western?"

Do you deny the beheading of the wife in Buffalo, NY following separation from her muslim husband?

And so many more...

And what, again, is the percentage of muslims in America? And these crimes are ALREADY surfacing? And you blame US for not wanting this pestilence to fester in our society? And we were kind enough to allow these people into our country? A bitter harvest, methinks!

Go ahead, try to sugar-coat the turd with your fast-lane, "Western," benign, "Hey, we're just a bunch of reasonable folks," caricatures of the truth. In fact, you should try to sell this down at your local mosque. You may want to double-check your life-insurance first, though...

Sorry for the double-post--the first try got me a message that it had "failed..."

Well, QE, we agree on most everything but not here. This is my case: Deluded people are indeed a menace to freedom but many deluded folks need not be hated, even though their ideology should be. Hating both the person and what they believe in is ultimately counter-productive much of the time. Think about many members of the KKK, the Communist Party here in America (during the Cold War especially but even now), Neo-Nazi organizations and so on. All of these people are confused but most should not be hated precisely because they don't have a clue about where truth and ultimate reality lie.

Moreover, I remain optimistic about winning over many confused and deluded people to a better sense of things. If you demonize all of them (of course, some should be demonized), you make it far less likely that you will bring many over to a sensible way of thinking about the world. I'm not a Christian but the Christian ethic of forgiving the sinner while still hating the sin has much merit to it. And so it is with many Muslims. Besides, if Islam is to eventually be assgined to the trash heap of history, it is imperative that millions of Muslims realize they've been had and this is less likely to occur, significantly so in fact, if all are backed into a corner in a game of us versus them. Not only divide and conquer but appeal to and rescue. Well, there's my case.

"I myself have family members who are OPENLY Christian, who OPENLY left Islam. For example, my aunt married a Christian man after her divorce of a Muslim husband. She subsequently became Christian as we're all still family. I mean, she's a Christian in the sense of a real Christian, not the hate mongers on this site who give a really bad reputation of true Christians. Seriously, just look at some of these comments. What would Jesus say?"

I think the better question here is... what would MUHAMMAD say? You have family members that abandoned Islam and embraced Christianity, and you haven't killed them yet? What kind of Muslim are you anyway? If you were in one of the Islamic countries, you'd probably be killed for not obeying your Quran'ic duty to kill the apostates in order to restore your family's honor.

"As for the ads being offensive, I could care more or less about he ads, I'm simply stating that it's a waste of finances, which could go to better use. I would say the same thing about Muslims if they posted an ad "Leaving Christianity..."

Why don't you get on the Saudi Arabia's case about how they spend their money? Here they are spending BILLIONS every year, training and shipping out violent imams around the world in order to spread your toxic religion. I'm sure that money could help a lot of people around the world, but it ultimately hurts people when they fall victim to a terror attack or another Islamic related attack.

"I would want them to see help, however, I hardly think anything associated with Spencer is about helping people. Again, the records speak for itself. A living example is this site and the hatred it spews."

The only record that speaks for itself is Islam's bloody history, past and present. Robert is helping to remove the shackles that this sick, twisted religion has on people, and he deserves the support of freedom loving people. You, being a Muslim, obviously aren't one of those people, so of course you can't see the good he is accomplishing.

"I've debunked the myths of this apostasy with one of your fellow JWers, see here:
http://www.islamophobia.org/news.php?readmore=564

See the comments as well."

Nice taqiyya. If you really believe what you are saying, go to Saudi Arabia and talk to some of the imams there about your views. See how that goes.

"I am not objecting as much as simply stating that you are all wasting your time and resources which can be better used to serve HUMANITY, by doing humane deeds such as feeding the poor, helping the needy, etc. etc."

Again, tell that to Saudi Arabia. They give very little to charitable causes. How much did they give to Haiti, by the way, compared to the United States? Muslims shouldn't lecture about giving to the needy, that's more of a Christian thing. Islam is more about jihad, murder, torture, and cruelty than it is about being benevolent. After all, Muhammad was a sick bastard, so how can we expect *his* religion to be any better?

Granted, you detest Islam, but somehow you have this delusion that you can stop Islam? I mean seriously, people have been trying this for centuries, you can't stop it.

Islam has been stopped and it will be stopped again. Remember the gates of Vienna? What really irks me is that so many Westerners have such short memories and are so ignorant of history. Muslims carry on like the Crusades happened last month and are furious and resentful that the Christians had the audacity to defend and attempt to reclaim their holy lands after they were invaded by barbaric muslim savages. On the other hand, Westerners are largely oblivious to the fact that islam is a predatory death cult that took by force every geographical area considered 'islamic' today.

The most irrational, stupid thing the West ever did was allow massive muslim immigration. That was comparable to importing millions of deadly vipers to lie in wait to strike and then spending a fortune on anti-venom---a lose- lose proposition. But that's what happens when people are ignorant of history and when liberal multiculturalists have free rein. They're too ignorant to understand that islam is not interested in multiculturalism; muslims want monoculturalism--- the archaic, corrupt, sex-obsessed, misogynist culture that is part and parcel of islam. Islam is a supremacist, intolerant, anti-democratic, medieval travesty masquerading as a religion and you are a fool if you think it can't be stopped. The next time it is stopped will make the first time look like a day at the beach.

Question_Everything!,

Yes, I probably should have wrote "...freedom to criticize Islam and to leave Islam," since we already have in the West freedom to criticize religions and leave religions besides Islam.

Wellington,

Very well said, old friend. Your humanity is unquestionably in tact.

I personally must admit to feeling a great ambivalence towards the Muslims I see. As one poster above said, without Muslims, there is no Islam. Often, when I see a bearded Muslim man or a Muslim woman wearing the hijab, I recognize unequivocally that I am looking at the enemy.

Nonetheless, when a Muslim says hello, I always respond in kind. When one asks me for help, as occurred the other day in the super-market, I respond positively, as I would to any other human being.

I simply can't hate them for what they are. I reserve my hatred for what they do.

The poster "islamophobia" says:

“When I see people like Spencer and the rest of his "supporters" working their hardest and spending a lot of time and effort to debase Islam and Muslims,”

Raising awareness about the dangers facing those who wish to leave Islam publicly is “debas[ing] Islam and Muslims”?

Is there any form of criticism of Islam, that is carried out by non-Muslims, that you consider legitimate? Are there any critics of Islam you consider legitimate (i.e., name them)?

“…one verse from the Qur'aan comes to mind, very amazing how it spells out things so clearly: Al-Anfal (The Spoils of War)”

It’s interesting that a bus ad about apostasy from Islam would bring, to your mind, a verse about warfare and the spoils of war.

“The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell;”

Posting a bus ad about apostasy is “hindering” people from “the path of Allah?”

It appears to me that you are making a not-so-subtle threat against Spencer and his supporters who want freedom for apostates of Islam.

“#1. They spend their wealth to HINDER man from the path of God. Does Spencer spend his wealth on anything good? Did he spend his wealth for those in Haiti for example?”

Apostates are at risk of being killed, suppressed, threatened, and punished in various ways by some Muslims. Spending on raising awareness to help apostates is good.

Raising awareness about the plight of the apostates from Islam does not "hinder" people from the "path of God"; the goal is to free them and make conditions safe for them so that they can either believe in a different God or gods, etc., or in no God/gods, and most importantly, so that they can states these views publicly.

“#2. That they will CONTINUE to spend (interesting for Muslims to think about). An interesting note here is that they will CONTINUE, which means you will never be successful and will have to spend and spend, but God guides to truth and truth always and will always demolish falsehood. :)”

Doesn’t the Quran tell Muslims to struggle and spend in the Cause of Allah, and to continue to do so? By your logic in the above quote, Muslims would never be successful! Surely you didn’t mean to suggest that?

Your statement about “truth” demolishing “falsehood” is based on the Quran, truth = Islam, and falsehood = disbelief of Islam. So you mean, but don’t spell out, that you think or at least hope that Islam will destroy disbelief (i.e., everything that is contrary to Islam), as per 8:39, 9:33, etc. From someone who quotes approvingly from the Quran and the Sura The Spoils of War, in response to the issue of a bus ad about apostasy, your statements are hardly reassuring to non-Muslims generally or to apostates in particular.

Sorry to disappoint you, Isabella, but I'm not. But not being a religious man does not stop me from admiring or accepting certain elements of particular religions. The Judeo-Christian ethic is a good example here of something religion has produced which I both admire and accept. Just as I think it was almost inevitable that a major religion would come along that was fundamentally flawed (it did; it's called Islam), so too I would maintain that it was almost inevitable that a major faith or two would produce an ethical system that would go very well with democracy and freedom. We got such religions in Judaism and Christianity. No offense to other religions (Islam excepted of course), but these two Western monotheistic faiths are the best structured to go hand-in-hand with democracy and true liberty because they put such an enormous emphasis on the dignity and worth of the individual. These two religions also place a heavy empahsis on personal responsibility, which also must be present so that freedom is not abused. Unfortunately, since the 1960s the abuse of freedom has been a significant contributor to the breakdown of Western societies and the fundamental unit of these societies and every society----the family. Devout Christians and Jews, after all, are not that portion of the population which is responsible for so much rot and stupidity in modern life. As another skeptic, Ben Franklin, observed, if man is bad with religion, imagine what he'd be without it. The history of man's last hundred years bitterly proves his point, Islam again being the exception to the rule. So, this is part of the reason why this old skeptic takes the position on Christianity that he does. Hope you and yours are well.

Thanks for your comments, old friend. I too feel as you do. I'll take each Muslim as they come and deal with them on an individual basis, but when I see a Muslim woman covered from head to foot I can't help but reflect on the fact the ideology her clothing represents could have never built America or Britain or The Netherlands or....

Response to: Jane Smith April 21, 2010 1:58 PM

>>"Kill non-Muslims wherever you find them. Lie in wait and ambush them, seize and capture them using every stratagem of war." - Qur'an 9:5

DEFEAT JIHAD!

A response to that propaganda can be found here:
http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/kill_the_infidels.asp

As a side note of cherry-picking verses out of context, try a little to do some basic research please.

Yeah, I'm delusional :)

Fast-growing Islam winning converts in Western world
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/

My delusions deals with facts and reality, yours deal with?

Responding to: Wellington | April 22, 2010 4:49 AM

>>Thanks for your comments, old friend. I too feel as you do. I'll take each Muslim as they come and deal with them on an individual basis, but when I see a Muslim woman covered from head to foot I can't help but reflect on the fact the ideology her clothing represents could have never built America or Britain or The Netherlands or....

Hmm...What do you think of this cover?
http://www.kurskroot.com/nuns-sm.jpg

http://www.kurskroot.com/orthodox_nuns.html

Responding to: Dendrite | April 22, 2010 12:52 AM

I appreciate your polite and kind response, this is the very process in which civilized human beings should strive for, even if we disagree on matters.

While I myself believe there are SOME Muslims who have a distorted view of what Islam is, ie the totalitarian ideology/mentality, the vast majority do not hold this view, especially those Muslims who are educated.

Again, I am not saying there are some Muslims who are bad people, we have our fair share, but to deny this to other faiths such as Christianity and Judaism to name only two, would be rather disingenuous.

>>Islam has not appeared as a teaching speaking about the relation of man/woman with God but as a political system, from the very beginning.

Actually, in the very beginning, the teachings of Islam in the so-called "Meccan" period dealt precisely with the relation of man/woman with God. Had nothing to do with politics whatsoever. I'm not sure of any historian who would say otherwise, even from your sources.

Now, you can make a case during the so-called "Medina" period, but I can also deal with that situation as to why. Maybe I can write an article about this later.

>>It can be said quite fairly that it is a political system trying to justify itself with religion.

Actually, I would say it's a complete system, which incorporates a political system. This country (the USA) as some people think I live outside the usa or that I am not "part" of the USA, has a system claiming to be outside the religious sphere, but in reality, it's operations are mostly influenced by two main faith groups with agendas: Zionist Christians and Zionist Jews.

I make a distinction between peace loving Jews and Christians from those who are Zionists. I'm not saying all Zionists are bad, there could be peace loving ones, I just haven't met any yet.

>Violence is inherent to its essence.

I think violence is a necessary evil at times, you can find references within the Bible also.

I have to cut short now, but again, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Response to: Jane Smith | April 21, 2010 2:39 PM | Reply

"Granted, you detest Islam, but somehow you have this delusion that you can stop Islam? I mean seriously, people have been trying this for centuries, you can't stop it."

>>Oh yes we can. Just as we stopped Fascism and Nazism.

>>Capische? Good can stop evil - get it?

Let me know how that works out for ya, ok?

Response to Isabellathecrusader | April 22, 2010 10:28 AM

I guess the crusade mentality is in full swing.

>>You are referring to Orthodox nuns. You can't possibly be that stupid, can you? Perhaps you don't understand the concept because it is so foreign under Islam.

If I were stupid, I'll be with the right company. And perhaps your bigotry and utter ignorance has an impeding effect on understanding the concept of hijab in Islam?

>A nun has a calling from God to remove herself from the world and devote herself to God. Because God gave her freewill she may freely choose to follow that calling or reject it (and God won't kill her for it if she does reject it.)

Same thing when it applies to Muslim women who choose to cover themselves modestly and not become some sort of men toys, going through countless surgeries to have this nipped and that tucked. But hey, if that works for you, all the better. I say go a step further, get brain surgery also.

>If she decides to become a nun she trains for several years and has several times where she makes vows regarding her choice.

Well, again, the Muslim females AND MALES are also trained to be modest, some from a very young age.

>She does not make final vows until she is positive this is the life she wants to live.

And the Muslim women also have this choice, to take off or put on the veil when they wish.

>When she agrees to live and train as a nun she agrees to wear a habit. SHE AGREES TO WEAR THE HABIT. It's like being on a baseball team. If you want to play you have to wear the uniform. But just like no one forces a baseball player to play ball, no one forces our nun here to be a nun.

SAME THING with Islam, if they choose to wear the hijab, then so be it. If they choose NOT to, then so be it.

>Unlike in Islam, where insecure Muslim men who can't keep it in their pants insist that women cover up so as to keep women from getting raped.

I'm not sure about these insecure Muslim men, but I hardly think they're the rapists, child molester as we see in your churches, etc. etc., but I digressed. The women have a choice, to dress modestly or dress like a street corner prostitute. Now, I wonder how many of your Christian fellows would pick up a woman in hijab as to compared to a short skirted half shirt prostitute?

>Too bad that doesn't seem to work since so many Muslim and non-Muslim women alike get raped by Muslim men.

LOL, now that's a good one! Like I advised, brain surgery as well. Thanks for the laugh. It was worthwhile coming here today just to get that one.

>So maybe it isn't a woman problem. Maybe it's a Muslim man problem. And maybe we all see it for what it is, no matter how many times you guys try to cover it up.

It could be a Christian man problem from what I'm seeing. I'm sure there are a few cases of Muslim males doing such disgusting acts, however, I think you will find that most of the rapists, fornicators, molesters, etc. etc. are of your faith. Of course, the "news" papers wouldn't mention CHRISTIAN this or JEWISH that, oh no...can't be.

>Please, keep the excuses coming. I could answer this stuff all day. I'm running to a Nat's game right now but leave a message here and I'll catch you later.

I do have a full time job, but I will stop by now and then for more of your good christian reasoning and attitude.

Isabella has already answered you but I would just like to second her assessment, especially the part about you not possibly being that stupid (but apparently you are). A nun's clothing is not representative of a supremacist ideology. The glorified potato sacks that many Muslim women wear most definitely are. Huge difference. Couldn't be any bigger. When I see nuns I see no threat whatever to democracy, freedom, equality under the law, real tolerance and the Golden Rule. Conversely, when I see women in black pototao sacks I see followers of a wicked religion that would shut down all those things I just mentioned above if only it got the chance. Let me put it another way, even though I'm not religious in the least-----Islam is awful and Roman Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity aren't. Clear enough? Something else, Catholic and Orthodox men don't need women to cover themselves so they don't act badly. Muslim men do need this and it's so damn pathetic that they do.

Yeah, the beautiful all black looks so much more impressive than the muslim "potato sacks".

Bigot!

islamophobia, you SHOULD be afraid of islam -- very afraid, in fact. Following a lie and a liar is foolish, even on a good day.

So ....

It's time to face your fears and see muhammad for what he truly was: an evildoer. You can run, but you cannot hide from the truth. Remember, the truth will set men free.

Did I ever say the nuns' outfits looked beautiful? My main point, which you did not address, was that the clothing worn by women of one religion is representative of an ideology which does not threaten freedom, democracy and other good things. The clothing worn by women of the "other" religion most definitely is representative of an ideology (and frame of mind) which does not allow for true tolerance, real freedom of speech, unadulterated democracy and other good things. Why don't you stick to the topic raised rather than bringing up ones I didn't mention and then attributing them to me?

As for calling me a bigot, someone telling me I'm a bigot because I despise Islam means no more to me that if I were called a bigot because I indicated that I loathe Nazism or Marxism. You see, Islam is as bad as these other two, argubaly even worse because it has more staying power due to the fact that it can hide behind its religious veil (just knew you'd love the clothing metaphor) and because it has a veneer of good things in it borrowed from Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism. After all, something 70% rotten is arguably more dangerous than something 95% putrid because of the deception element involved. Look, get use to the fact that Islam is considered wretched by untold millions across the world (and this number is growing exponentially with each passing year) and also know full well that Muslims should know full well that there are legions of folks out there like me who find Mohammed a disgusting, repulsive figure. I mean that guy wreaked of fraud, perversion, a control freak nature and brutality. The more I study Islam the more appalling it becomes to me and I don't give a damn if you don't like this.

To Wellington and Cornelius:
Apart from distinguishing the sin from the sinner, and hating the sin not the sinner, there is another reason not to hate all Muslims: a lot of them apparently don't know what their own religion teaches. They don't read the Qur'an in their native language. They recite it in Arabic they don't understand. They don't read the Hadith or know the details and warts, shall we say, of Muhammad's biography. For them, Islam is almost less a belief system or ideology, than it is like a family or tribe. It's almost like an ethnic identity, yet with a religious DNA. That is one of the chief inversions of Islam: though it is an ideology or form of spirituality, and should therefore exist in some sort of at least nascent relationship to developing consciousness and freedom, instead it camouflages itself and acts almost like a racial identity, i.e., something that is not a matter of choice, something that binds families and peoples like an ineluctable destiny. We hear something like this from Muslims frequently. To escape Islam is often hardly more thinkable than to escape a racial identity. To escape would be like betraying your family and abandoning your blood, not like leaving a mere religion or ideology as non-Muslims understand those. That Islam has succeeded so well in subjecting people's minds to a necessity so unquestionable and imposing that it seems almost biological, tribal, genetic, familial -- that is an indication of the depth of Islam's totalitarianism. This aspect of Islam also seems to have some sort of Alice-through-the-looking-glass mirror relation to Nazism. Nazism made race ideology. Islam makes ideology race.

Dear friend... I too thank you for responding in a polite manner (politeness is a rare thing indeed, nowadays). But I do see that the Islam you are referring is an imaginary construction of your need to see it so. It is not Islam as it is in its most foundational texts and beliefs.

I myself am a victim of persecution against non-Muslims in Islamic environments. My whole family has been forced to leave Turkey for those reasons (as nearly all the other Christian population of this country). A place where our Christian ancestors have been there for more than one and a half thousand years. It was clearly the justified, from Islam's core teachings policy, of the Turkish state. And, let think that Turkey is considered one of the most secularized Islamic tradition having countries.

I do know well, from first hand experience, that there are men/women of goodwill between the Muslim Turks but, simply, this is so because of their personal humane inclinations and because they are not strict Muslims. They just happened to be born in a Muslim country. So many times they become astonished when hearing so violent words from Quran itself, for example. They become shocked.

And, really, some verses in Quran and some passages in the hadiths and the most authoritative biographies of Muhammad are unacceptable to any sane mind, even if you have all the vast tolerance to see them in the broadest possible context. Let put your hand in your heart, see the facts and be sincere, please. You can not say lies to yourself so much. There is no a 'necessary under some very special conditions' use of violence, as you suggest but a clear cut cruelty and revenging spirit in those narrations (even for cases of simple speech criticism). And do you believe, really, that all this mob mentality in today's Muslim countries has nothing to do with all those original teachings...

Yes, there is violence in the Old Testament also, although it has not this cruelty someone may find in Islamic texts. But, again, as a Christian I can easily say that the Old Testament period has been finished with the New Testament, where there is no even a trace of a mentality relying on violent solutions. Quite the contrary: there is a self sacrificing mentality, in the name of establishing lasting, authentic peace. Quran takes us so back again...

Do not forget also that our Western secularism, that we too, now, here, are able to express openly our views, is based clearly on this New Testament's world approach, even if after many historical adventures.

I have no any objection to read your 'Medina period' article you say... but you too go and see sites as 'Faith Freedom'of Ali Sina please. You may have very precious insights by visiting them.

As to Zionism... Jews have a right to have a home of their own. It is totally unjust to want to sweep them out of this world or leaving them homeless, so that they may not have a shelter to go in any dangerous for them condition. Do you not agree with this?...

Wishes for goodness and understanding...

I agree with you, traeh, that this is a very sound addtional reason for not hating all Muslims. Many Muslims are simply ignorant of much of what their faith asserts, just as many folks from other religions are likewise not well informed about the religion they adhere to. Of course, no other major faith poses as a mortal thereat to free institutions as does Islam.

Moreover, if Islam is to be assigned to oblivion, it is imperative that a hell of a lot of Muslims leave Islam. The vast bulk of the non-Muslim world eventually coming to an anti-Islam position is crucial but so is desertion of Islam by millions of Mohammedans. Therefore, and ironically, it is important that for many Muslims they actually learn a lot more about their faith so they too can see all the rot in it. Ah, it's going to be a long process until Islam is a goner but I remain confident that it will occur. And again we can see that knowledge is not only power but also a key to real liberty.

I view the muslim slave as I viewed the victims of Jones in Jonestown. They sought to have their spiritual questions answered as man is inclined to do. They, like the muslim, put their faith in the wrong guy and died for it. The muslim still has a choice. Well, most do. Some are selected and groomed to die by their local imam or ayatoilet in some so called martyrdom operation.
the point being...When a field is full of Wheat and weeds, the weeds have to go. The farmer cannot walk around picking the Wheat and leaving the weeds. It all gets plowed under. Unlike Wheat, the innocent can walk away from the wicked and be spared...or stand with it and perish. Let's hope it doesn't come to that here. It has already come to that in other nations where jihadists shoot and cut and rape in the name of the moon god.
I cannot hate the average brainwashed mobot for worshiping the necro-curious, illiterate, child raping, desert bandit as they really don't know shit about him. If they did know all about mo, they would run screaming from that false religion and seek to cleanse themselves of it in some fire.

Those muslims that indulge in terrorist acts are hated by me with good reason.
I can also say that I hate islam and that islam must cease to exist. The Thugees were vanished and islam can be as well.
And who do you think our latest troll is really? We see so many incarnations of such a few trolls that surely this must be one of those rebirths. Any bets? Has Marisol investigated the possibility that this is a returning apologist?
Well...bridges are uninteresting without trolls. No story there. Just some goats traveling.

islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.

but God guides to truth and truth always and will always demolish falsehood. :)

Glad you agree with me...

islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.