Omid Safi lies again, claims I threatened to kill him

Robert,

If he fails to retract that defamatory allegation, sue him.

What a #%$@^*, lying, coward this Safi is. Did he ever hear of the terms " Libel ", and " Slander " ? I hope that he becomes familiar with them in the future...

"Of course you are right that we as Iranians had a beautiful civilizations (sic) before the rise of Islam. As a historian of Iran I also think that we have had a beautiful civilization after the rise of Islam."

Right, a beautiful civilization after the rise of Islam. The Islamic era began in 622 AD, Persia was invaded by Islamic armies in 635 AD, and the final defeat of Persian forces came in 642 AD. So the beautiful civilization of Iran lasted only 20 years after the rise of Islam. Then -- to apply Gibbon's words more appropriately than Gibbon himself did -- came "the triumph of barbarism and religion."

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill must have a written policy governing academic conduct. And I'm takinf a wild guess that libelous statements that threaten the academic reputation of the institution might frowned upon, particularly if such statments further threaten the endowment.

HOISTED BY HIS OWN PETARD!

Robert,

Same advice as I gave re: fatwa bus billboards:

Go after his ass legally.

Folks, Robert does not fight fair. He uses facts. He quotes the Qur'an, the aHadith, the Sira and the centuries of Islamic exegesis. In order for a poor Muslim apologist like Omid Safi to make his point, he has to deny the Qur'an.

No wonder he projects his death wish on to Robert. Omid would like nothing better to solve his disagreement in the Islamic manner. Since, like most Muslims, he has a limited imagination and cannot conceive of an opponent who does not deserve to do his opponent fatal harm, it is totally within the Islamic culture for him to assume that Robert would desire a similar solution.

Mr. Spencer, get your lawyers. Time to throw out the trash.

Interesting to see that he has the Molavi(Rumi), Attar, Hafiz and S'adi in his list but not the great nationalist poet of Iran, Firdausi, whose monumental history book, the Shāhnāmah (Epic of the Kings), was originally composed for the Samanid princes of Khorasan, who had revived Iranian cultural traditions in the 10th century after the Arab conquest in the seventh century had turned this once great empire into a cultural waste land.

It is an indication of the power and domination of the Arab ideology that the Iranians retained a frightened and uneasy admiration for their national poet and it was not until Reza Shah Pahlavi's rule, that a mausoleum was built for the great poet at his native Toos, in Khorasan in 1925.

He is a hateful man, who has personally threatened me and my family with death.
......................

Appalling. Ludicrous. Grotesque. Robert Spencer has *never* said anything that would make me believe such a thing.

More:

Then, in a classic example of projection, he charges those who oppose such murderous regimes with doing what they do.
......................

Indeed. Robert Spencer has *received* numerous death threats; he has never issued them. Calumny.

The full tale of how Omid Safi first tried to be hired by Harvard Divinity School, with Leila Ahmed, ably assisted by Diana Eck and William Graham, acting as his agents, and having been foiled by faculty members unwilling to be quite so accommodating and gullible as Ahmed, Eck,and Graham assumed they would be, and then found that he could make his way out of Pittsburg to another destination, in another fashion.

And that fashion was to find a chamnpion who would back him to the hilt in a department where that somebody was the main power, and where others, in other deparmtents, deferring to principles of scholarly autonomy and to the presumed "expertise" of colleagues -- a dangerous mistake, when it comes to the hiring and promotion that goes on in any field connected to Islamic studies -- were unlikely to interfere or object.

At the University of North Carolina, that man was Carl Ernst, one of those whose courses on Islam will teach you, if you are an innocent and unwary student, very little of what Islam, as understood by those who, in the mental and physical freedom of the West -- Ibn Warraq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, Magdi Allam, and many others -- have understood about Islam in relation to the development of the individual believer's mental and moral development, his capacity for free and skeptical inquiry, the possibiities open to him for the enterprise of science and the practice of art, and of course Islam as a Total Belief-System that contains a politics, or a geopolitics, based squarely on a separation of Believer and Unbeliever, Muslim and Infidel, between Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb, that is on the idea that there must exist a state of permanent war (though not always of open warfare) between the two, and that the triumph of Islam is inexorable, but requires patience, and the duty, for Muslims, to engage directly or indirectly in Jihad. And Jihad is not, as some thing, only promoted by violence, qitaal (combat) or by terrorism. It is promoted through the Jihad of "pen, speech" )propaganda, including campaigns of Da'wa) and the Jihad of "wealth" (The Money Weapon) and through the latest weapon, that of demographic conquest, as discussed openly by Houari Boumedienne at the U.N. in 1974, and by Colonel Khaddafy and many others since.

Carl Ernst early on found his own answers, I gather, in some kind of Sufism that he apparently both misunderstood as a dreamy, summer-of-love business, what with Rumi and those love songs; he has apparently not developed very much in his grasp either of Sufis (whose approach to God may be quasi-mystical, but many of whom are taught their duty to promote Jihad, even Jihad through violence, or of Islam in a wider sense.

Carl Ernst was a great supporter of the proposal, some years ago, of forcing incoming Chapel Hill freshmen to read that comically-bowdlerized guide to nothing and nowhere, Michael Sells' "Approach to the Lyrical Suras" -- a book which, for all I know, even Michael Sells may now be embarrassed about. When some parents and students rightly objected to this propagandistic exercise being forced on them, they were depicted, as expected, in the American press and television as right-wing Southern holy-rollers, censorious troglodytes who could be laughed out of academic court (yes, it is these people who are always presented as humorless ideologues, while those forcing propaganda on behalf of Islam are simply brave proponents of "diversity" and "tolerance"), while those who had come up with this propagandizing scheme, by completely misrepresenting the Qur'an and thus Islam, were presented as the objects of would-be censors, when what was objected to was not study of the Qur'an (nor of the Hadith and Sira) but study, rather, of a bowdlerized version of the Qur'an that did not accurately represent its contents and its effect on the minds of Muslims who take the Qur'an to submissive mind and heart. Incoming freshmen could hardly be expected to know enough about Islam to question this "Lyrical Suras" version. But what did Carl Ernst care? Carl Ernst has his own private Islam, and wishes to make sure that that version is the one implanted first, and then becomes so hard to dislodge, in the brains of incoming freshmen.

At the very end of 2008 Carl Ernst flew off to Teheran to accept a prize awarded to him for his “scholarly” work, but that “scholarly” work could not conceivably have contained a syllable of intelligent and informed criticism of any aspect of Islam in order to receive such a prize from the likes of those who run the Islamic Republic of Iran. Ernst himself said there were things about the islamiic Republic that disturbed him, but that it would be unfitting – presumably ungracious – of him not to accept an award for his “scholarly” work. Really? What would we think of someone who flew to Berlin to accept an award from Hitler, or at least from Goebbels, in, say, 1937, or 1938, for “contributions to the dissemination of German culture” for a scholarly book on Walther von der Vogelweide, or Hildegard of Bingen? Would we say – that’s fine, that’s just for “scholarship” (meanwhile, in Nazi Germany, many of the best scholars, as we who received them in this country know, had been dismissed in 1933, while fellow real scholars who were non-Jews, such as the great scholar of Islam Joseph Schacht, resigned their posts in disgust and left Germany). I can just imagine what Joseph Schacht would think of Carl Ernst, or for that matter what a million Iranians in exile, or among the very best people in Iran today, think of Carl Ernst, for accepting that “scholarly” prize from the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Well, there is a lot more to say about Carl Ernst, just as there is much more that could, and perhaps will be said, about Omid Safi. It is a pity that a university as excellent as that at Chapel Hill, and with relevant departments – such as the History Department – that rank at the very top, with some of the best professors to be found anywhere, that a certain naivete allowed Ernst to bring in Safi, and for the “Middle Eastern” studies thus to remain firmly in the hands of the MESA Nostrans. Professors of history who suspect that something is up, but who are held back by a natural professional reserve, who think that they should not express doubts about subjects that are not their field of specialty, might do a little studying on their own, and be just a bit less circumspect. After all, one would not have had to be a professor of German literature in 1937 to wonder about a Department of German whose members did not brook any criticism of Germany, or who went off to Berlin to receive scholarly prizes. All over this country there is a quiet war going on, in departments of Islamic and Middle Eastern studies, sometimes with censorship imposed out of fear of what local Muslims may do (if, for example, there were to be a symposium on, say, the work of Christoph Luxenberg). I suspect the MESA Nostrans are winning, but they have to be checked, and their slow academic conquests reversed.

Which reminds me – I really must put up that MESA Nostra Contest yet again. I never tire of posting,and re-posting, it.

Readers of JihadWatch are aware that MESA Nostra is the professional organization in which, in order to become a uomo d’onore, or a donna d’onore for that matter, no kneecaps need be broken, no nightclubs broken up, no trucks hijacked, no girls put on the streets, no cocaine contraband prescribed by “los medicos” of Medellin be distributed. No, there are only two requirements to become a Made Man in MESA Nostra. The first is easy: you must view the entire Middle East through ideological blinkers, in which Islam scarcely matters, and in which, whatever happens, Jihad-conquest and dhimmitude will be ignored, so that contemporary expressions of millennium-old doctrines, attitudes, impulses will be interpreted without the slightest reference to those doctrines, attitudes, impulses.

That is content.

There is also form.

What would Shakespeare have been like had he not forced himself to squeeze his dramatic verse into the Elizabethan doublet of iambic pentameter? Or Spenser, without the Spenserian stanza? It is not only writers in Elizabethan England who found such constraints productive. How impressive that 20th century French writer who managed to produce a novel without using the letter “e,” or that other one who composed a series of works based on a single device: the beginning and the final sentences of whatever he wrote were phonetically identical, though semantically wildly different, and he assigned himself the writerly task of beating a plausible path through the overgrown jungle of language, a path that led ineluctably from that first sentence to the same-sounding, but different-meaning, last sentence.

Many of those in MESA Nostra may not realize it, but they are akin to Shakespeare and Spenser, Georges Perec and Raymond Roussel. For them it is not a question of verse-forms, or lipograms, or homophonic puns. Their self-imposed constraint consists in limiting their scholarly lexicon to fewer than fifty nouns, and two-dozen verbs. They harness these exhausted nouns, these over-worked verbs, and put them to work, no matter the subject. No matter the subject.

Thus the prose produced by one member of MESA Nostra will sound remarkably like that of another. Here we mean the enthusiastic, full-throated members of MESA Nostra, those whose interests do not stray very far from “Iraq” and “Palestine” and “colonialism” and “empire,” and the obvious ring-changing variants: “occupied Iraq/Palestine,” “Iraqi/Palestinian people,” “Israeli colonialism,” “American empire.” Many members of MESA Nostra membership have a deep and abiding personal and professional interest in these matters, as they do in little else. They can do no other.

But a few members of MESA Nostra are members-in-name-only, who remain different in mental makeup, and distant from the bureaucratic intrigues, the political tendentiousness, the anti-American,anti-Israel, anti-Western themes and variations. These “non-member” members do not write about the “construction of Palestinian identity” nor the “(de)construction of Israeli identity.” Rather, they write about “The Methods of the Mudaddithin,” or “Ephraim of Edessa,” or “Xavier de Planhol and Agricultural Desolation in the Berber Heartland,” or “Yemeni Jews as Chattel Slaves” or “The Destruction of the Coptic Churches of Upper Egypt,” or “Schacht, Jeffery, Gottheil: Three Masters of Morningside Heights” or “Arabic but not Quran’ic: The Evidence of Numismatics” or “Twelver-Shi’ism in Mevlevistan” or “Ibn Battuta, the Rihla, and the Destruction of Hindustan” or “Why There Was No Arab Copernicus or Vesalius: An Inquiry” or “Aisha and Marriage in the Islamic Republic of Iran” or “Quran’ic Memorization and Comparative I.Q. Levels in Post-Independence India” or “Sir William Jones and the Re-Discovery of India” or “The Role of Hadrami Traders in the Muslim Conquest of the East Indies” or “The Story of Thomas Pellow” or “Indo-Persian Miniatures of Jihad-Conquest in the British Museum Collections: A Catalogue Raisonee” or “Table-Talk of a Mesopotamian Judge: A Critical Edition” or “Book-Binding at the Abbasid Court” or “The Role of Hungarian Converts in Ottoman History” or “The War Within Islam: Universalist Claims, Arab Supremacist Doctrine” or “The Treaty of Al-Hudaibiyya and Pacta Sunt Servanda: Muhammad and Grotius on the Law of War and Peace” or …well, you get the idea. But these are not the people whom we have in mind when we discuss MESA Nostra at JihadWatch. We are talking about the other kind.

And it was with that other kind in mind – the card-carrying careerists, the blurb-and-reference swappers, the runners-for-office, the risers-high, the much-interviewed, the solemn dispensers of wisdom to the unwary, the True Believers – that we created the MESA Nostra Contest.

The contest is simple. Below is a single paragraph, itself consisting of a single sentence, transparently written in Mesanostran. Contestants are asked to identify the author.

“In conclusion, I feel that this work of analysis, by focusing on the implications of the phallic hegemony of Wehrmacht-helmeted Israeli troops and their supporters throughout the American empire, both equally unappeasable in their demonstrable need for “the Other,” does what in a quasi-heuristic sense it was intended to do, as it manages to break away from all Eurocentric approaches to discourses of postcolonial subalternity, or even of meta-alterity, and comes so subversively close in its disjunctive interrogation of the counter- or, more exactly, anti-mimesis which is inherently essential to Mesopotamian or indeed to Cairene, Abbasid, Jordanian or Palestinian thought for, as a native of (Amman, Baghdad, Beirut, Cairo, Damascus, Islamabad, Ramallah, Teheran, etc. – choose one) and hence a non-European, I am of necessity self-assigned to that category of people best placed to perform such a mission of interrogating all postcolonialist as well as narrativised specificity, but of equal necessity, not as one obviously intent on de-undermining or rather meta-determining the poststructuralist or post-postmodern universalism, with its customary relativised discourse analysis which seldom lends itself to anticipatory prolepsis, but on the other hand my critique is quite meta-consciously deeply para-rooted within, as well as up-rooted out of, and obviously from, Western thought with its inalienably alien constructions of meta-identity and hypersexuality, which necessarily give rise to post-essentialism which, in a larger sense, serves merely to violate all the strategic critiques of hegemonic historiographical constructions of essences, whether of the Orient or of scholars who deny the self-referentiality of all postcolonialist essentializing.”

The prize for the first correct entry emailed to director@jihadwatch.org will be a nicely framed copy of Professor Hamid Dabashi’s celebrated Poem in Prose to Edward Said, which you may read now by googling “Hamid Dabashi” and “Edward Said.” For many, that will be prize enough.

[Posted by Hugh on January 27, 2005]

Professor Omid Safi wrote: "As a historian of Iran I also think that we have had a beautiful civilization after the rise of Islam....."

I've got a copy of Amir Taheri's "The Persian Night." I wonder how many (of today's) Iranians are true Persians; descendants of Persians. Until the Arab invasion in the seventh century, Iran was Persian. Zoroastrianism was the principle religion. Today there is Zoroastrianism (no more than 45,000) and Bahais, "two surviving made-in-Iran religions" according to Taheri.

The late Ayatollah Khomeini hated everything Persian. He loved everything Arab. He did not love Iran or its heritage. Unlike 'genuine' (my term) Persians, he did not consider the land sacred nor holy.

"Khomeini and his associates regarded Iran as just part of the broader Islamic ummah. They had no particular feeling for Iran as a land and a civilization." Khomeini launched a campaign against the Persian language. Government propaganda presented Arabic as "the language of Allah" or even "the sacred language" (zaban moqaddas), although in the Koran nothing but Allah is described as sacred, according to Taheri.

I wonder how man self-professed Iranians today are actually descendants of the Arab conquerers vs. how many are genuine Persians.

Wow, that's low. I mean, wow.

I see them lying through their teeth all the time, and yet it's always shocking to see someone make claims that are so patently and outrageously false. Especially when that someone is a tenured professor at a serious university in the US.

Robert, you have to sue. You can't let this go.

The most beautiful civilization is Western, the civilization that gave us William Wilberforce, Fredrick Douglass, and Abraham Lincoln, among others. The civilization that has advanced freedom, science, and prosperity far more than any. The civilization that, when abandoned, yields evils like communism and Nazism, but when upheld contains or destroys them. The civilization that must not be abandoned today, lest another -ism should arise.

Well, I have seen pictures of Spencer, and he is a brute, but I doubt he would threaten anyone...Safi is either an out right liar, or he saw a picture of Spencer in his Darth Vader suit and freaked...most people do...At any rate Safi owes Spencer a public apology...but I won't hold my breath...

I don't know, you guys in USA (a litigious society that it arguably is) can sue someone if they so much as look at you askance. So why not you him? If you don't shut him up now, he'll feel vindicated and defame you some more, then some more again until you're maligned beyond repair.

So if you're really a "uomo d’onore" (to coin a phrase), you must sue Safi and sue him publicly.

BTW, what I'd give to see Robert Spencer threaten someone and their family with death. It'd be the funniest thing I'd see in my whole life.

Safi, what a creep.

@Robert & Hugh

In your website the kind of treatment you peter out to men like Tariq Ramadan or Omid Safi , is known to everyone.

See if an uninformed and stupid American after listening to your views about people like Tariq Ramadan or Omid Safi , personally decides to kill someone like Tariq Ramadan or Omid Safi , will you support that ?

And say if someone kills Omid Safi or Tariq Ramadan after reading your views about them in "JihadWatch" should you accept responsibility for their murder ?

It bothers me to see that our universities hire these Muslim professors who sole job is to proselytize the western young minds by mounting the stealth jihad, continuing to lie about Islam and Muslim culture and suppressing the truth about Islam!!!

If our academia and administrators have any sense left in them, they would fire all these professors and save the future of our civilization!!!

... continuing to propagandize his students about "Islamophobia" rather than train them to think critically about the issues of Islam and jihad.

He really has no choice, almost nobody does. To frankly discuss Islam based on acknowledged facts must result in a conclusion so startling and so negative, that such a discourse is verboten before it even gets off the ground.

This has always been so, from the morning after Asma Marwan's murder, or at least since the morning after Khaybar and Kinana. The truth is so disturbing that it is in turn unacceptably disturbing to even think about it, let alone talk about it in any meaningful way.

*** 92:8 ***

It's the world's biggest problem hiding in plain sight, perfectly packaged and kinetic.

@Jaladhi

Your name seems Hindu and Indian to me.

How dare you call American Universities "Our Universities" ?

Bye the bye what do you know about the lives and works of people like Tariq Ramadan apart from gibberish posted here in sites like "Jihadwatch" ?

How dare you talk something without knowing anything ????

@Tom Davies

"The most beautiful civilization is Western, the civilization that gave us William Wilberforce, Fredrick Douglass, and Abraham Lincoln, among others. The civilization that has advanced freedom, science, and prosperity far more than any."

My dear old tommy you are talking like one of those white supremacists ala Hitler. Tell me how can you say that Fredrick Douglass was a product of Western Civilization ?

He was a black slave who was later freed. He was a victim whose victimization was a product of your's western civilization.

Your western civilization is responsible for the biggest mass murders in human history.
Colonization and ethnic cleansing of the native americans, the crussades , the ethnic cleansing of Jews and Muslims after re-conquesta in Spain , Hiroshima and Nagasaki , Vietnam , Iraq are only some instances.

If you praise your civilization even after this then you are a hypcrite and a liar.

Remember Samuel Huntington ? He said the success of wst lies in using pollitical violence in most organized way.

And you talk about science and culture ? Rubbish.

And say if someone kills Omid Safi or Tariq Ramadan after reading your views about them in "JihadWatch" should you accept responsibility for their murder?

What a stupid question. The potential for murder based on profound disagreement is presented only by Moslems. I give you Fortuyn and Van Gogh as examples. Indeed, when in the earliest days of Islam old Mohammed had first Abu Afak murdered and a week later Asama Marwan murdered, he did so because they dared to criticize Islam.

*** 92:8 ***

No other thing has ever needed criticizing more than Islam and its Moslems. But they've sealed off that avenue. So your hypothetical is wrapped in 6th Pillar thinking. Typical Moslem.

@AlarmedPigfarmer

"What a stupid question. The potential for murder based on profound disagreement is presented only by Moslems. I give you Fortuyn and Van Gogh as examples."

Another lie. Pim fortuyn was not killed by any Muslim.He was killed by a non-Muslim Volkert van der Graaf, an animal-rights activist.

Even Rich Lowry from National Review agrees that Americans are a nation of paranoid people. Now these days in America are the days of "Tea Parties" i.e. America is in grip of many unfounded paranioas. Paranoid people , as we know , can do anything and everything like they did in Nazi Germany.

Had I been Omid Safi , I would be fearing from my life after Robert put my name on blacklist.

...my above comment if for JihadWatcher who needs to actually read a book about or by Frederick Douglass before talking snap and moreover, if he or she is going to style itself anti-racist, needs to come into the idea that non-whites can actually be inheritors and champions of the civilizations in which they are born, as Douglass was and can be seen to be if you read any of his speeches.

"He is a hateful man, who has personally threatened me and my family with death."

To Robert Spencer:

I can't speak for North Carolina but in California this is a serious crime to make such a false accusation. It becomes even more serious when they are made over an electronic device 422PC.phone,fax,internet,Etc.and if it can be proven from who it came from. There is very little doubt that Omid Safi has conveyed this accusation to others electronically as well.

The email and its senders information is the "standing evidence" and a police officer should be called in to take a report immediately and then place the email into evidence.

This is libel and it has the clear intention of attempting to marginalize,demonize and discredit Robert Spencer's works.But if Safi conveys this to Islamic radicals this can possibly endanger Robert.

And say if someone kills Omid Safi or Tariq Ramadan after reading your views about them in "JihadWatch" should you accept responsibility for their murder?

'Don't bogart that joint my friend, pass it over to me'...

Anyone who knows Robert Spencer, or is familiar with his work, or follows him on Jihad Watch, will immediately realize how totally ridiculous and unfounded these accusations by "Professor" Safi are.

Wow another liberal/Muslim Liar!

Whem Volkert van der Graaf, made his confession in court he says he killed Fortuyn largely for opposing Muslim immigration.

@tokyobk

"Frederick Douglass was absolutely a Westerner, a Christian"

My Answer : OK so being a Christian is the only criterion to be a westerner ? That's typical Islamophobic racism for you.

Remember someone like Tariq Ramadan or Omid Safi also have been born and brought up here in the west and they have contributed greatly to the modern western philosophical discourse.
But you do not call them westerners simply because they are not christian.

Another point why do you include only Americans as part of western civilization ?

Tell me the name of at least one American philosopher who can be compared with wetsern philosophers such as Plato,Aristotle,Plotinus,Aveross or even from modern day like Cant,Hegel,Marx or Nietzsche ?

If you cannot then how can you call America as part of Western civilization ?

Jihadwatcher enlighten us with your brilliance. Show us why Islam is really a religion of peace. Show us how all those committing violence and intolerance in the name of Allah are really A...holes.

What's this guy JWer talking about?...If I was Larry King, I would say 'What's yer point'...If I was 'the great one' Mark levin I would say...'Get off the phone you big dope'...

@Lady Predator

"Whem Volkert van der Graaf, made his confession in court he says he killed Fortuyn largely for opposing Muslim immigration."

Kindly go through my whole statement. I did say Fortuyn was killed by a non-Muslim and that is right.

That guy alarmedpigfarmer was blaming Muslims for the murder of Pim Fortuyn so I mentioned that he was wrong.

Another lie. Pim fortuyn was not killed by any Muslim.He was killed by a non-Muslim Volkert van der Graaf, an animal-rights activist.

Yeah yeah we all know that. Did he choose Fortuyn cuz he spoke out for beating puppy dogs or because he was widely viewed as a paleo-conservative cuz he dared to criticizze Islam? The latter.

There is ample evidence that it's dangerous to criticize Islam. The cartoon riots is but one example. The OIC's move to force its oil customer nations to make such criticism a felony is another. The high school math teacher in France in hiding. Hyrsi Ali in hiding. Geert Wilders in hiding. Salman Rushdie in hiding. Westergaard in hiding.

*** 33:21 ***

A couple of years ago Horowitz and Spencer came up with a stroke of genius when they organized proposed seminars on women in Islam on American college campuses across America. The uniform response was threats by university officials to expel the on-campus organizers or at least send them up on hate speech charges before star chamber academic courts.

There can be no doubt that the 6th Pillar of Islam pervades the nation.

@duh-swami

I just want to point to Robert and Hugh that in a paranoid nation like the USA it is possible that some one might try to bump off Omid Safi or Tariq Ramadan after the kind of bad press they get from Robert and Hugh.

So Robert should be careful when he personally rebukes someone for their views on sensitive issues such as Islam.

"Frederick Douglass was absolutely a Westerner, a Christian"

My Answer : OK so being a Christian is the only criterion to be a westerner ? That's typical Islamophobic racism for you.

Uh, Watcher. Frederick Douglass was an avowed and active Christian and saw himself as a Westerner which you don't know because obviously you have never studied his life (and I have taught Douglass for 15 years so I know which students have not done the reading). That has nothing to do with whether Tariq Ramadan is French. He is French. Tarek Fatah is Candian. Yusuf Hamza is American.

Wow, anything to call someone an Islamophobe but I guess that is your moniker.

Another point why do you include only Americans as part of western civilization ?

Because we were talking about Frederick Douglass who was an American and a Christian.

Tell me the name of at least one American philosopher who can be compared with wetsern philosophers such as Plato,Aristotle,Plotinus,Aveross or even from modern day like Cant,Hegel,Marx or Nietzsche ?

If you cannot then how can you call America as part of Western civilization ?

Ok, you run with the idea that America is not part of the West, which is completely irrelevant to the point that I was making about 1) your ersatz "liberalism" which is actually racist and 2) specific points about Douglass, who contrary to your 2D assumption about minorities, actually did consider himself a Westerner both when he lived in the US and while touring the continent. Just google some of his speeches, though it may take time away from watching the watchers.

@Homer

"And regarding your other allegations against us: yes, we remove despots and dictators and liberate their subjects. Then we make real peace with the latter and try to build prosperity together."

My Answer : Tell me one single occasion where you removed a despot and liberate their subjects and Then made real peace with the latter and try to build prosperity together ?

The ethnic cleansing of millions of native Americans or Iraq or Vietnam or Hiroshima and Nagasaki ? Do you call it liberation ? You liberated innocents people from their lives.

You are just another brainwashed victim of American exceptionalism.

The tactics of Saul Alinsky--self-projection, repitition of falsehoods, freezing and isolating the target(s)--have been adopted by a Muslim parading as an academic.

And I thought Western Civilisation was lost Muslims, or they on it! I guess the question is who adopted these practices first...

Dragging a mahoud through the legal system should be in order here. We're not in Pakistan. Words mean something, and RS chooses his words carefully. Swear 'em in on a Bible.

...btw Jihad Watcher, since you are so interested in slavery and Frederick Douglass, let's recall that not only did this hero escape slavery, he insisted that the Union use African American troops to put down the Rebellion so that it could never be said that blacks did not earn their freedom. This was in the 1860's. Good thing he did not live in the Middle East or Africa. Let's review the last states to abolish slavery:

1952 Qatar abolishes slavery
1959 Slavery in Tibet is abolished by China after the Dalai Lama flees.
1962 Saudi Arabia abolishes slavery
1962 Yemen abolishes slavery
1963 United Arab Emirates abolishes slavery
1969 Peru abolishes the encomiendas regime through a land reform Land reform#Latin America ending de facto slavery in the country.
1970 Oman abolishes slavery
1981 Mauritania abolishes slavery

(That Dalai Lama think might also through simplistic liberal narratives a bit as well)

@tokyobk

See just comparing some so-called "Islamic" regime's slavery abolition time line to that of the American civil war does not prove any point.

Prophet Mohammad personally freed many slaves. In fact one of the prominent Muslims from the early days of Islam was Hazrat Bilal , a Ethiopian slave.

In Islam there is a provision that if you commit a murder , then your sins can be forgiven on the last day if you free a slave and repent.

@Homer

I do not want to make it against any race or religion.

My issue with you people is that why you do consider everyone else but Muslims as a normal part of US discourse ?

Is not that a racism from your side ?

That's an interesting list, tokyobk.

*** 33:51 ***

Even better, Oprah did an expose on white slavery in Arabia, which is of course sex slavery, and then there's the trade going on even today in black sub-Saharan Africans as house workers. Then there was that Arabian couple in Denver who got caught with a slave. They of course got only a slap on the wrist cuz the were actual Moslems, but it was bad press that they were in the habit of slapping their poor slave around from time to time.

Islam is so great. Gotto luv it, what a barrrel of monkeys!

As much as I'd like this Safi bozo to get sued, it might be a tough sell.

As a "limited public figure" Robert would have to prove Safi sent the email with "actual malice". If the email was sent to just one person and Safi never intended it to be sent to others, the elements of proof would not be met and Robert could lose.

Losing in court would give Safi and others the opportunity to boast ~ falsely ~ that Robert lost because he actually did make the death threats and that would make the situation much worse.

Prophet Mohammad personally freed many slaves.

For every manumission by the Holy Prophet (as the late, great Tim Russert like to call him), he took a hundred slaves. Mohammed never denounced slavery, indeed he was one of the greatest slavers of all time.

*** 33:21 ***

Especially in the sex-slavery category, where at Banu Qurayza alone he took two or three thousand sex-slaves, many of them young Jewish girls at the ready for forced pedophilia sex with his hairy sexy Companions. Bravo. Enough to make any good Moslem's chest swell with Islamic pride, eh Jihadwatcher?

There is no point trying to be rational with Banerjee...No one can reason with a Mahoundian in heat...

@JihadWatcher

No one's talking about murdering anyone, except the fiend and liar Omir Safi.

And you!!!

You have falsely accused Spencer here of encouraging violent retribution against his critics.

In so doing, you are planting the seeds of a plot to bring violence against certain critics of Spencer in order to blame it on Spencer.

And for doing that I am now reporting you to the FBI.

You need to be watched.

But you know he is proud of all that sex-slavery, Swami. And he's proud of the Aisha affair too.

@Homer

"So, islam as an ideology that threatens our very existence as free societies should be studied and discussed, but it should not be a normal part of US or world discourse in the sense intended by you."

O Homer!!!!! I want to emphasize that Islam does not want to threaten you or your style of life. In fact I believe Muslims in USA can preach and practice their religion more freely than in a country like Uzbekistan.

My problem is that somehow your minds about Islam have been poisoned so much that you cannot withstand anything Islamic.

I repeat Islam does not want to kill you. Islam doesn ot want to dominate you.

Muslims want to live peacefully and contribute to the future discourse of the western civilization.

I do not understand why do you consider Muslims alien to Western civilization ?

But you know he is proud of all that sex-slavery, Swami. And he's proud of the Aisha affair too.

A question for the Moslem troll?

Which one ot the three always needs a bodyguard when speaking in public?

1. Tariq Ramadan
2. Omid Safi
3. Robert Spencer

So much for the BullSh*t, eh Moslem?

Prince charming... The rapeist.

http://specials.msn.com/A-List/Manohara-Odelia-Pinot.aspx?cp-documentid=24000021&imageindex=1

Notice the name of the suspect. (heh)

P.s. Wsup "Mikey?" you silly little pillow biter.

JihadWatcher:

Your answer to to why we refer to Western Societies for the most part as Christian is a very simple one. Judao/Christian teachings and values predate Islam by over 2000 years and the new testament of Jesus Christ by over 600 years and yes their roots come from the Middle east long established before Islam in Saudia Arabia.

Christianity found its way into Western Europe and the UK long before Islam was even formed by Mohammed in the 6th century.

@KrazyKaffir

Again you are misunderstanding Islam.

See I again repeat no one has talked about killing Robert.

He is entitled to free speech.

But what I want to mention here that Muslims do not want to change your way of lifestyle here.

Muslims do want to contribute to your society in a positive way.

@Mackie

See I know that Judeo-Christianity did have impact upon the West in a great way but my point is that why you do not want to give the chance to Muslims to contribute to the future development of the West ?

Or do you believe that since West has Judeo-Christian roots , it should always consider Islam as an alien and outsider ?

LOL, there's my favorite word again, " misunderstanding " !

Banerjee...But what I want to mention here that Muslims do not want to change your way of lifestyle here.

Yes they do...

Banerjee...Muslims do want to contribute to your society in a positive way.

No they don't...

That's two strikes, you still get one more...

[>> But what I want to mention here that Muslims do not want to change your way of lifestyle here.]

Hmmm....let's see...

From Omar Ahmad
Co-Founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations
President and CEO of Silicon Expert Technologies.
Former Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP) Officer.

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to
any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth"

Sure sounds like Muslims trying to change our lifestyle...

Jihadwatcher wrote:
"But what I want to mention here that Muslims do not want to change your way of lifestyle here.
Muslims do want to contribute to your society in a positive way."

Translation: Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

@AJack

Omar Ahmed is not the representative of all the Muslims in America.

Look at people like Mohammad Ali , Malcolm X ,Sheikh Hamza Yusuf, Yusuf Estes , Salman Ahmed.

Surely these Muslims are making a positive contribution to the western society.

@pr126

Gee you are interpreting my words in a wrong way.

What I want to say is that Muslims have been living in the West for quite sometime now and they do want to contribute to the future discourse of Western civilization.

Unfortunately people like you do not highlight the positives the Muslims are doing in the Western world.

@George

I believe in free speech and the right of any one to criticize anyone or anything.

What I want to say that if you accuse someone of something which he is innocent of , then that accused person is going to feel hurt.

Understand ?

Keep looking, slave.

Searching for all those possitive things, eh chump?

Muslims never, never contributed positively to anything in the world here or elsewhere in the history of mankind.
'Jihad watcher' you're a cartoon on 2 legs,not even Funny only a Filthy disgustingly dirty Liar mahomedans. BIZOU XXX

To all, and especially Homer and tokyobk, thank you for your defense of Frederick Douglass. He is such a hero in our history. Those who would deny his Western heritage should explain how he managed to have such a reception on the Western mind.

"I have not looked at Spencer's latest piece of trash, but I have to caution you against taking what he says seriously. He is a hateful man, who has personally threatened me and my family with death." -- omid's lying letter

You are the lying piece of trash, omid. You are a liar, just as your prophet muhammad (perdition is upon him) before you was a liar.

"I just want to point to Robert and Hugh that in a paranoid nation like the USA it is possible that some one might try to bump off Omid Safi or Tariq Ramadan after the kind of bad press they get from Robert and Hugh."

A Mohammadan argument. And only Mohammadans respond to this sort of subliminal messaging.

How fearful they must all be of freedom of speech. And yet, they have no fear of the consequences of running over their daughters with a vehicle, strangling them with a hijab, shooting them point blank in a cab or cutting their head off in a TV station promoting moderate Islam. All done right here in "paranoid" little old America, in the name of that Islam this guy keeps talking about.

Jihadwatcher said:

"What I want to say that if you accuse someone of something which he is innocent of , then that accused person is going to feel hurt.

Understand ?"

Wittle huwt feewings of Muswim men.

And that is what will beat you every time, sweet pea.

I repeat Islam does not want to kill you. Islam doesn ot want to dominate you. Muslims want to live peacefully and contribute to the future discourse of the western civilization. I do not understand why do you consider Muslims alien to Western civilization.

*** 66:2 ***

Oh yeah? Well here's a quote from a very important and authoritative Moslem:

I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future.
-- Hoop from CAIR in an interview in Minneapolis in 1993

And Hoop even wears one of those doily caps and has a scraggly beard and everything, and that means he's a real important Moslem. I think.

Carl Ernst has his own private Islam, and wishes to make sure that that version is the one implanted first, and then becomes so hard to dislodge, in the brains of incoming freshmen.

The various Islam holograms (all variations on the same theme) purveyed in MESA Nostra only become so hard to dislodge from the brains of students because in our general Western sociopolitical culture that surrounds MESA Nostra there is already in place the PC MC paradigm, into whose grooves and sockets those holograms fit snugly and indeed find convenient power strips to run on.

Were there no PC MC paradigm in the general society around Academe -- and indeed were that paradigm replaced by the more rational worldview that enjoyed dominance in the West some 75 years ago -- MESA Nostra would be swimming desperately upstream barely able to maintain a foothold, if not unceremoniously shown the door.

I can't remember Hesperado, was it the Texas Traitor?

"Gee you are interpreting my words in a wrong way.

What I want to say is that Muslims have been living in the West for quite sometime now and they do want to contribute to the future discourse of Western civilization."

Yes, yes. Parvez Ahmed, that POS co-founder of CAIR Hezbollah lova' is worming his way onto the human rights commission down in Jacksonville, Florida. From a World Net Daily article we can see just what kind of a contributor he wants to be.

"Most recently, Ahmed was criticized for a 2008 speech in which he argued the U.S. government should treat federally designated terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah as part of the political process towards peace.

According to the bestselling new book, 'Muslim Mafia,' which exposes CAIR and other terrorist front groups, Ahmed huddled with CAIR's in-house lawyers to consider suing the U.S. and Israel on behalf of Hezbollah, following Israel's military counterstrikes against Hezbollah terrorist positions in Lebanon in 2006.

Also, during a $50-a-plate CAIR fundraising dinner in 2007, Ahmed presented an award to the founder of Bridges TV – Muzzammil Hassan – who recently confessed to murdering his wife by decapitation, in what authorities believe was an honor killing based on Islamic law, or Shariah. The Islamic legal code is enforced by religious police in Saudi Arabia and by the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=143545

Maybe, sweet pea, you can sell it to the Martians.

Were there no PC MC paradigm in the general society around Academe -- and indeed were that paradigm replaced by the more rational worldview that enjoyed dominance in the West some 75 years ago...

It is very difficult to dislodge a Fictive Reality once it has taken hold. In fact, I'm not sure one has ever been dislodged.

*** 8:12 ***

The Islam Fictive Reality is particularly intractable for two reaons: 1) the pervasive and persitent threat of personal violence and/or ruination it makes (the 6th Pillar of Islam, and 2) it has melded with the Race Fictive Reality, perhaps the single most powerful one in operation in America today.

@Jihadwatcher

I never understand one thing.

You people talk freedom of speech and freedom of expression in one hand and want to ban someone who do not agree with your viewpoints on the other hand.

You are what Charles Pierce calls in his best selling new book
"Idiot America".

"He is a hateful man, who has personally threatened me and my family with death."

Use of the word "personally" is explicit and unambiguous...and can't be rationalized within a larger context of possible threat emanating from other sources.

I meant to say @Jihadwatchers

"You people talk freedom of speech and freedom of expression in one hand and want to ban someone who do not agree with your viewpoints on the other hand."

Not just "someone" but banned lying moslem trolls that try to sneak back in using a new nick.

@Hesperado

No rational argument will suffice you people.

You people have been brainwashed to irrationality.

It is time for you to make a rational point against Tariq Ramadan instead of idiotic nonsense.

@duh_swami,

But what really baffles me is that this guy won't accept your gracious offers for dating tips! Damn, I was looking forward to those pickup-lines...

@Krazykafir

That again proves my point. All of you are sadist , hypocrite trolls who should be put into Guantanamo bay.

I wonder why Obama is waiting ? He should have put FBI on notice against you people a long time back.

What point it that troll, that you can't stand being banned as a troll, and you're too transparent to get away with your current sockpuppet? Look on the bight side, you will be able to devout more time to revering your child molesting false prophet.

"I wonder why Obama is waiting? He should have FBI on notice against you people a long time back."

Easy one, muslim: Because the FBI is too busy investigating HIM!

I wonder why Obama is waiting ? He should have put FBI on notice against you people a long time back.

Well, you have a point here. As a born Moslem out of Kenya and then Indonesia on his way to Hawaii, I'm sure that Prez Osama has contemplated taking such an action during his darker moments.

*** 92:8 ***

But Barack is a complex and nuanced man. His top priority is conversion of the U.S. to a globo-socialist political economy, and he's halfway there.

*** 92:8 ***

So you Moslems must have patience, JihadWatcher. Before Prez Osama can free more Moslem Activists and transfer more wealth to you and grant you more prerogatives, he must complete the Conversion.

And I ain't talking to Islam. Based on the tone of that church on the southside of Chicago, I don't think he ever converted from Islam. Just went all taquiyya is all.

Slavery still seems to be shallowly lurking just beneath the surface of Islam. Given the chance, slavery will likely bubble back up.

Not surprising since there does not seem to be any way for Islam to truly evolve and adapt from its roots.

If Islam should become more powerful, be prepared to see slavery return (overtly -- it's still there covertly!)

Do some Googling.

For a quick example, see Wikipedia, e.g., "Islam and Slavery".

(BTW, I'm not a big fan Wikipedia -- way, way too much PC censorship. But, sometimes it can be a start for doing a little research.)

One sample of text from the section "Slavery in the contemporary Muslim world:"

In recent years, according to some scholars, there has been a "worrying trend" of "reopening" of the issue of slavery by some conservative Salafi Islamic scholars after its "closing" earlier in the 20th century when Muslim countries banned slavery and "most Muslim scholars" found the practice "inconsistent with Qur'anic morality."

In 2003 a high-level Saudi jurist, Shaykh Saleh Al-Fawzan, issued a fatwa claiming “Slavery is a part of Islam. Slavery is part of jihad, and jihad will remain as long there is Islam.” He attacked Muslim scholars who said otherwise maintaining, “They are ignorant, not scholars ... They are merely writers. Whoever says such things is an infidel.” At the time of the fatwa, al-Fawzaan was a member of the Senior Council of Clerics, Saudi Arabia’s highest religious body, a member of the Council of Religious Edicts and Research, the Imam of Prince Mitaeb Mosque in Riyadh, and a professor at Imam Mohamed Bin Saud Islamic University, the main Wahhabi center of learning in the country.

According to multiple sources, religious calls have also been made to capture and enslave Jewish women. As American journalist John J. Miller said, "It is hard to imagine a serious person calling for America to enslave its enemies. Yet a prominent Saudi cleric, Shaikh Saad Al-Buraik, recently urged Palestinians to do exactly that with Jews: 'Their women are yours to take, legitimately. God made them yours. Why don't you enslave their women?'"

More on the page, and much more in the Googlverse.

response to @JihadWatcher

If you have been able to catch on to Jaladhi as being a Hindu/Indian name, I can safely assume that you are a Bengali speaking Muslim.

How about this - nobody likes Muslims, no body wants any Muslim contribution to any society. (adding to the population is not a contribution). The reasons are many:

Muslims have a superiority complex and believe that they are doing the host Western nation a favor by bringing Islam with them. Combine this with the confrontational attitude and the audacity to expect host communities to alter practices because they go against Islamic belief.

Muslims have rampaged, pillaged, plundered enough for 1400 years and it is Karma payback time. And Israel is the manifestation of Karma. All the bravado about being warriors and conquerors comes to naught against a people who are willing to fight back (Jewish people of Israel). Muslims have had it very easy against the Hindus and Buddhists of the sub-continent.

Jihadwatcher, I will suggest that you reconnect with your Vedic heritage. Being a South Asian you will at best be a second class Muslim in the eyes of your Arab co-religionists.

I have worked in the Middle East and one of my Arab employer wanted to employ a Christian/Hindu/Sikh to look after his company's finances - as he said - to guard against the propensity of Muslims to indulge in TAQUIA.

And please, Muslims are not part of Western Civilization and will never be. A few pompous scholarly folks and a few Silicon valley types do not qualify.

Before Muslims can claim to be become of Western civilization, they must learn to become indistinguishable and respectful of the host nation. And this does not imply having to give up your faith.

@Hesperado

Give me a link in English.

I am still learning french.

"Easy one, muslim: Because the FBI is too busy investigating HIM!"

And CAIR. Don't forget they're investigating CAIR.

"It is time for you to make a rational point against Tariq Ramadan instead of idiotic nonsense."

Okay I'll go slow, so pay attention. Tariq Ramadan is the grandson of Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna. We all know he brother Tariq is a supporter of his granddad's plan to overthrow our U. S. Constitutional law and replace it with your damned Sharia.

Al-Banna's vision on the rule of Jihad for the Ummah in a citation of the Five Tracts of Hasan al-Banna in which he goes back to the Hanafi-rules goes as follows:

"Jihad in its literal significance means to put forth one's maximal effort in word and deed; in the Sacred Law it is the slaying of the unbelievers, and related connotations such as beating them, plundering their wealth, destroying their shrines, and smashing their idols." and "it is obligatory on us to begin fighting with them after transmitting the invitation [to embrace Islam], even if they do not fight against us."

See, we have a problem with that kind of thinking and we understand that you, and your bud Tariq, are allowed to do all sorts of things to promote the above vision, including lying and pretending to fit in with Muslim by going against your sacred practices until you are strong enough to take us over. Sorry sweet pea, not buying.

I do not understand why do you consider Muslims alien to Western civilization ?

This form the a$$hole that calls us, "You people"...

wotta twit...

Vicram Singh

"If you have been able to catch on to Jaladhi as being a Hindu/Indian name, I can safely assume that you are a Bengali speaking Muslim."

You do not need to be from a particular country to understand all these things.

Yes I know that "Jaladhi" means sea.

My trouble is that you Sikhs (I understand you are a skih from your title Sing) also have been brutally oppressed during the British colonial rule in India. So why you do support your former colonial masters ?

I've been reading Jihad Watch for a few years now, and I don't believe RS would threaten anyone, much less "personally" send death threats.

And amazingly, muslims not only send death threats on a daily basis for whatever offense, they routinely carry out those threats, often in the most gruesome and inhumane manner.

But you don't hear the likes of Safi condemning - or even acknowledging - that.

Muslims are the worse of hypocrites.

... "most Muslim scholars" found the practice "inconsistent with Qur'anic morality."

Two things here irk me. First of all, the next time I see the word "Moslem" used with the word "scholar" I'm gonna have to go ahead and puke.

*** 92:8 ***

Second of all, when I read the term "Koranic morality" my eyes roll in their sockets and my head spins around on my shoulders like a lurid scene from an exorcism gone bad in one of those teen horror movies.

Robert:

If you can really attribute the email to the man, I hope you'll sue him. Ask your attorneys what it'll cost and start a fund drive. I'm good for fifty bucks.

My trouble is that you Sikhs (I understand you are a skih from your title Sing) also have been brutally oppressed during the British colonial rule in India. So why you do support your former colonial masters?

Uh, finally being released from the terror regime of their Moghul masters before that maybe?

Isabellathecrusader

I have plenty of patience for folk like you.

"Okay I'll go slow, so pay attention. Tariq Ramadan is the grandson of Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna."

OK the biggest crime of Tariq Ramadan happens to be that he is the grandson of Hassan al-Banna. Then it should be a crime to be relatives of Harry Truman because this man took more innocent lives than any one during the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

"We all know he brother Tariq is a supporter of his granddad's plan to overthrow our U. S. Constitutional law and replace it with your damned Sharia."

What is your proof that Tariq Ramadan wants to replace U. S. Constitutional law and replace it with Sharia ? Can you show any statement of Tariq Ramadan on that regard ?

What bold faced, vile liars these people are.

Take every legal action you can against him, Robert. And remember, the truth will win out!

If the noose fits. . .

http://www.georgetownbookshop.com/display2.asp?id=8

Jihadwatch is Debanjan Banerjee.

NOT, abdullah (aka "My Name is Kegner") abdullah "biff" mikhail, the paid misinformer from CAIR Dallas.

Jihadwatchers

From all your rebukes against me I understand that you are deeply paranoid about my ideas.

I just want to know why ? Why you do not like my ideas ?

Why are you paranoid about my ideas ?

@Mo

See you talk about freedom of speech and you want to remove me from telling truths.

You hypocrite. If you remove me it will be a proof that you people are tyrants who cannot tolerate any opposing ideas.

Bannerjee...From all your rebukes against me I understand that you are deeply paranoid about my ideas.

That's right...

Bannerjee...I just want to know why ? Why you do not like my ideas ?

Because you are wrong...

Banerjee...Why are you paranoid about my ideas ?

Paranoia is called for...

Hey Debster.........

Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean you're not out to get us, does it?

*pushes the button*

It's not because we have a problem with dissent, Banerjee. It's because you're hostile, overheated, you post waaaayyyyy too much on a single thread and you've repeatedly derailed entire discussions.

"{omid safi - a satanic ignoramus. Isn't that right, "jihadwatcher?!"

Like you!"

True, Jane ...and the only "hate" found on Jihad Watch is coming from those two.

>> "Why are you paranoid about my ideas ?"

Let us know, when you do come up with an "idea" - we'll take a look a look at it and get back to you.

Jihadwatcher needs to "watch" his own comments.

Jeez, does he own a mirror?

He is the liar and the hater with murder on his heart and mind. He has double-standards up the wazoo ...

Audience: Ohhhhhhhhhhhh...

MC: Awwwww, looks like you lost, Debanjan. But thanks for playing "Stump the JW" today--and for being such a good sport we have a lovely parting gift just for you:

Curtain sweeps open, audience gasps...

That's right, this lovely hand-blown glassware set, direct from Saudi Arabia, inscribed with suggestive images of pre-pubescent virgins and autographed by Professor Safi himself! Let's have a nice JW hand for loser Debanjan Banjeree!

Polite applause, fade to commercial...

response to @JihadWatcher

"My trouble is that you Sikhs (I understand you are a skih from your title Sing) also have been brutally oppressed during the British colonial rule in India. So why you do support your former colonial masters ?"

JihadWatcher - you would rather have me support an EVIL, DESTRUCTIVE, RETROGRESSIVE cult just because a few generations where colonized ? I shudder to think about the fate of Humanity if Islam comes to ascendancy in the Western world.

About the oppression by the British thing - we fought the British, got out-classed, out-maneuvered, out-gunned and colonized. Our bad, was just not our time in history.

Rats!! I missed all the troll action today because I was out parading around in provocative clothing trying to cause an earthquake. Or...as Naseem would say, dressed like a slutty women :)

By the way, no shaking yet....

A cost-benefit analysis of the effect of Apologist-Trolls:

Benefit:

Their posts arouse us to marshall arguments against them, keeping us in practice and sharpening our debate skills.

Cost:

Their posts have the effect of generating, and are likely calculated to generate, a cloud of obfuscation in the form of a thousand different tangents causing 20 to 30 of us to go scrambling around put out little brush-fires -- and each time we put one brush-fire out with a counter-argument, the Apologist-Troll uses this as an opportunity to generate a few more tangents, thus multiplying the obfuscation. The overall effect of this may be that any single point among the 1,000 being agitated gets lost -- particularly when its analytical adjudication perforce acquires evidentiary sense usually only in multiple back-and-forth responses and counter-responses separated by dozens of other sub-points simultaneously conducted by others who have become mired in tangling with the Apologist-Troll.

Thus the Apologist-Troll takes advantage of a milieu where multiple responders can unwittingly enable the multiplicity of obfuscations.

Apologist-Trolls also do this even one-on-one: one sees this, for example, in any given debate Spencer has had with an Apologist, from reading the transcripts of them. The Apologists never fail to demonstrate an inability to stick to one point. This cannot be a coincidence, a universal trait among them by accident: it is more likely to be a conscious tactic. That's why I have argued that when debating Apologists, we should follow this rule:

Stick to one point and do not allow the Apologist to go off on tangents, until that one point has been addressed to your satisfaction.

The Apologist should be informed of this rule beforehand, so he has fair warning. If the entire debate must revolve around only one point -- because the Apologist keeps squirming and dancing and trying to go off on tangents but you won't let him -- so be it: Better to expose him on one point, than to allow him to obscure all the points under a fog of obfuscation.

I also did my part to try and "cause" an earthquake.

So far, nary a tremor in Marisol-Land.

musical interlude: a piranha song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Op4qMXBZg&feature=related

There are so many good things about the people of Iran but it is not because of Islam, it is despite it.

Bnajoboy was banned for making unwanted and purely hostile advances towards one of our ladies here.
He then reincarnated himself to continue disrupting and hijacking threads. Sexual harassment was just around the corner I'm sure.
Having been banned, he sneaks back in under another name, coward that he is, and asks why we don't want to put up with his crap.
If you had kept a civil tongue in your head you would not have been banned twit. Now?....Poor, poor victim...when it suits him/them. The rest of the time they are superior in all things and victorious. Kinda like Pelosi and gang come to think of it.

islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.

gymgal, DDA, Marisol, et al,

Your time was not wasted! You have shown this nimrod cleric to be the BIGGEST BOOB of all!
You have exposed islam! And this could trigger a cleavage in islamic scientific circles! Let's stay abreast of the latest developments--perhaps he'll confess to this udder, unsupported nonsense! You've put him in a pendulous position!

And, yes, I am ashamed but I couldn't resist...

(Beatles, Maxwells Silver Hammer...)

Bang!Bang! Mar-i-sols Banhammer came down upon his head!
Bang!Bang! Mar-i-sols Banhammer made sure that he was dead!

heh...

Damn...that's spoda be Banjoboy...

Some google fun - google "banna nazi" without quotes...

Or click link, which is same search:

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=banna+nazi&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Marisol and gymgal! This nabi wishes to inform you that there WAS an earthquake off Taiwan earlier this morning. Just saying...

nabi ZK (pbum)

Jihadwatcher wants Robert Spencer to take responsibility if some nut decides to up and shoot Tariq Ramadan. Would Jihadwatcher maintain consistency and apply the same logic to Revolution Muslim? If someone kills Trey Parker or Matt Stone, should Islam take responsibility? Because Revolution Muslim directly quote Islamic scripture, and I have yet to see any so called moderate Muslim refute that from a theological basis.

Robert, I hope you'll use this excellent opportunity to give this man a taste of CAIR's so oft used medicine.

SUE HIS PANTS OFF!........... DEMAND A PUBLIC APOLOGY!

Hopefully he'll lose his job too, there are far too many of these university vermin polluting innocent young minds.

This joke of an academic is another good reason for me to not donate to my alma matter of Colgate even though he is no longer there.

My European Military history professor often spoke of the similarities between fascism and islam in my senior independent study. He wasn't very popular with his fellow academics there but he was a brilliant professor.

Speaking of Academe and ways to improve the whole province of Middle Eastern Studies, imagine all the various Ph.D. theses grad students fishing around for a topic could tackle:

1. A refutation of Snouck Hurgronje's thesis that Islam overtook Indonesia by peaceful osmosis (a thesis that has been allowed to be the last word on the subject ever since, no doubt powerfully aided by the fact that it so neatly dovetails with currently dominant PC MC, which always seeks out new ways to whitewash Islam).

2. An investigation into the original conquest of the Philippines by Muslims, and the role the Catholic Spanish played in their own later conquest of that same region, and a comparison of these respective conquests in terms of benefits to the aboriginal population and societies.

3. A re-examination of the supposedly discredited thesis of Henri Pirenne, that Muslims violently shut down the Mediterranean turning it from the vibrant and dynamic nexus for intercultural trade and influences it was prior to the Muslim invasions, into a hostile wall that among other things, eventually motivated the West to seek out other ways to trade with the Far East (including the serendipitous discovery of America).

4. A re-examination of the Spanish Inquisition in light of its context -- namely of a society painfully trying to reconstitute itself after having been occupied for centuries by a hostile and brutal alien society -- and a presentation of arguments justifying the Spanish Inquisition, particularly in terms of the continuing danger posed to post-Reconquista society by Muslim spies of one sort or another, as well as real threats to reverse the Reconquista.

5. An investigation into the Islamic concept of inghimass -- the military tactic of "plunging headlong" into battle in a suicidal-homicidal mania in order to be delivered to Paradise. Trace its importance throughout the arc of Islamic history, and its influence on current mujahideen today.

@Jihad Watcher

Why is this man being repeatedly called an "animal rights activist"? The label that should be used is an environmentalist extremist or simply murderer. Let's not hide the truth about who this man is by using "nice" terms to describe him.
Fortuyn was assassinated during the 2002 Dutch national election campaign by Volkert van der Graaf, who claimed in court he had murdered Fortuyn to stop him from exploiting Muslims as "scapegoats" and targeting "the weak parts of society to score points" in seeking political power. (In other words, his animal rights status had nothing to do with the murder.)
One of Fortuyn's fears was of pervasive intolerance in the Muslim community. In a televised debate in 2002, "Fortuyn baited the Muslim cleric by flaunting his homosexuality. Finally the imam exploded, denouncing Fortuyn in strongly anti-homosexual terms. Fortuyn calmly turned to the camera and, addressing viewers directly, told them that this is the kind of Trojan horse of intolerance the Dutch are inviting into their society in the name of multiculturalism."
Fortuyn was the centre of several controversies for his views about immigrants and Islam. He called Islam "a backward culture", and said that if it were legally possible he would close the borders for Muslim immigrants.
(Source: Wikipedia)

Had I been Omid Safi , I would be fearing from my life after Robert put my name on blacklist.

Of course YOU would, because that is what YOU would do.

duh_swami

And say if someone kills Omid Safi or Tariq Ramadan after reading your views about them in "JihadWatch" should you accept responsibility for their murder?

WE don’t talk murder/hate. Just because we point out that someone has done something wrong, why do you jump to the conclusion we mean them physical harm? Verrry interesting…

“Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the two shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God’s great Judgment Seat…”
(Kipling is lamenting the gulf of understanding between the British and the inhabitants of the Indian subcontinent who had been under muslim control for the previous 300 years or so.)

"Bye the bye I believe there are plenty of Evangelist Christians (including someone like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell) who believe that a woman is not anyways equal to a man."

They NEVER said anything like that. Why do you make up absurd statements and think people with brains are going to believe your lies?

I have lived among muslims for many years and one thing I have found: the bigger the lie, the faster they believe it. If they hear the truth, they don’t/can’t believe it. WHY IS THAT?

In a posting above, Hugh Fitzgerald discussed Carl Ernst, but did not give him the full treatment.

Here, for the entertainment and instruction of those new to this forum, is Mr Fitzgerald's "A Tribute to Carl Ernst".

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/09/fitzgerald-a-tribute-to-carl-ernst.html

At the end of that 'tribute', written in 2006 you will note, Mr Fitzgerald sarcastically suggests Mr Ernst as a suitable recipient for the 'King Faisal Prize For Services to Islam'.

Well: I think Mr Fitzgerald should be recognised as a prophet. For - as was mentioned in Mr Fitzgerald's remarks upon Carl Ernst in this thread, posted on April 26, 7.03 am - in 2008 Carl Ernst did indeed receive a prize from the Big Bosses within the Empire of Islam. Not from the Sunnis, but from the Shiites: a prize awarded by the Islamic Republic of Iran.

I emailed UNC about this, would you believe I'm still waiting on a response?