SIOA nationwide ad campaign kicks off in Miami:
"Leaving Islam" bus ads hit the streets

Ah, yes, showing the quality of the fan base...

Uhh... that was "brilliant" ad campaign... fingers crossed. :-)

Free will, like democracy, equality under the law and the right to criticize any religion are incompatible with Islam. One knows this or should know it. BTW, you never did answer my challenge on a thread from yesterday about anything Islam has which is good which cannot be found in other religious or ethical systems. Of course, there is much rot that is in Islam, such as death for apostasy or treating non-believers as pure second-class human beings in this world, which cannot be found in other faiths. Finally, know full well that your criticisms of those who criticize Islam are no more meaningful than if you took people to task for criticizing Nazism or Marxism. It's not hateful, you know, to excoriate a hateful ideology----like Islam.

A person who commits a crime is a criminal, a person who abides by the law is not.

I can see from your interests you are a very sick person.

Is it "free will" as Muslim style ? Meaning, the upside down ? Because as we are supposed not to understand Arabic, you are supposed to switch a couple of words in English, like "peace" for "cutting throat with a dull knife", like "believers" for "assassins", like "having faith" for "fear of cutting limbs" and so on.. we are catching up on you, with your word-twisting..

I feel you are incapable of understanding that there is a way to criticize anything in Islam even from the position of a common believer to that of a scholar…it is the intention of the criticism that is key.

Sorry, I missed the “challenge”…here’s your answer: One God, absolute in power, infinite in wisdom, free from all want. Any other brain busters?

It is the essence of the message that you miss….take your blinders off and use your mind….plenty can be found in every other religion to fit into your pet peave “the other is second class”…ever consider Hinduism? Christianity? Judaism? Zorastranism? Etc. Yeah, there’s plenty there that can be isolated and pointed out that is exploited by those in the faith to do just that, put down others as sub-human.

The “rot” you mention is only humanity…everything in Islam is in perfect balance, only, you choose to look at what you perceive to be the negative side…I could pretend to the exact same "rot" and assign it to the majority faith in whatever society I choose and find verse and scripture to back it up from their own books...once again, intention...I have no intention of twisting things like that.

As far as your “Finally, know full well….” comment, criticism properly aimed that hits the mark is valued more than gold to the pure soul.

But what you and most point out here on this blog, authors as well as the commentors, seems to have nothing to do with Islam, or faith, or religion, or kindness to humanity…none of it…it is plain as day that what is highlighted is criminal behavior in rejection of any person who is God-Conscious

“No dice.” Sorry, those who abide by the law are not lawless. The unjust are criminals and it is criminal behavior that we mutually find disgusting and it is an aberration to the natural state…thus your hatred is righteous, only the assignation of it’s source is erroneous…it is not “Islam” that you and I mutually hate, it is evil…and no, faith in and obedience to God is not evil, violation of the orders of God is evil…and we both recognize that.

Take your fellow commentor “Isabelthecrusader”… on another post she justifiably is upset about something….real or imagined, I know not, but what she wrote was pretty disgusting behavior in a human being, but it was not “Islam”…but what then is she in an uproar over?

She is in an uproar over her hatred of Islam based upon what she thinks “Islam” is...but absolutely not based upon the truth.

I never heard of this happening in the Animal Kingdom. I never heard of a bitch being killed in doing.. this with all the neighborhood dogs.. Animals know when it's time. Animals never waste time, 'cos their time is short. But they don't do such things. They don't hurt each other like this. This is far beyond animal. This is far below animal. Is the Human Race going below Animals ? Muslims have a say on that.

"Kegner Bifresye" wrote:

A person who commits a crime is a criminal, a person who abides by the law is not.
.....................

What law would that be? It is illegal to murder an apostate here in the West. Under Shari'ah it is mandated. Do you want to see Shari'ah law imposed here in the West, with all its attendant barbarities?

"Kegner Bifresye" in response to Isabella the Crusader:

I can see from your interests you are a very sick person.
.....................

Concern over the brutal rape and murder of a little 13-year-old girl represents a sick interest in your view? Well, yes—I suppose in Islam her death would be quickly passed over, as the husband trolls for new victims.

What happened to this little girl would be a crime in the West—indeed, in most parts of the world. It is unlikely that the killer will be prosecuted for his savagery in Islamic Yemen. Do you consider this just?

Pontifical questions are usually invitations to an arguemnt for arguements sake...but as well, pontifical answers are mostly fuel for the fire.

But you can answer yourself, you already know the answer. Freewill, remember?

One cannot, in claiming obeidence to God, force any human being into a marriage against their will.

Does forced marriage happen? Yes. Do some people try to claim righteousness in it? Yes.

Is it?

Once again, you know the answer....in whatever legal system human beings apply themselves you will find evil people who exercise their own evil intentions that have nothing to do with obedience to God...this is not specific to Islam, Christianity, etc. any legal or moral system that is set up you will find evil people trying to find a way around it so that they can have what they want, not necessarily what is right, or just, or obedient to God.

“A person who commits a crime is a criminal, a person who abides by the law is not.”

Any person who holds racist, anti democratic supremacist views but has not acted on his sick convictions by committing a crime is not a criminal YET.
However, it would be prudent to keep an eye on those people. Neo Nazis, white supremacists and Muslims (Followers of an Arab supremacist, violent, hateful, totalitarian and backward ideology) can all legally hold their Nuremburg rallies in the USA. While you (still) have the right to follow your Fuhrer, being a member of such a club will make you a supremacist, violent, hateful, totalitarian and somebody who is not to be trusted, never.
It would only be right to treat a follower of Mohammed the same as he would treat a jew, Christian, Hindu Buddhist, kafur........
“O, you who believe, do not take Jews and Christians as awliya'
“The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land.”

It depends on the law. What is a rightful executioner under
Sharia, is a vicious torturer under any other law. Hm. The law of the killers and vicious torturers. Who says this is even a law after all ? Mohammed ? This is a vicious serial killer. What allows him to set any law ? Could any vicious serial killer start his own religion justifying his murders ? Like Mohammed did ?! Because he is nothing but a mass murderer starting a Religion of murders to justify his murders. Enough of misunderstanding of Islam. We have enough to Understand Islam. In all it's filth. We have enough evidence to condemn Islam as the worse ideology far worse than Nazism.

That you ask these questions in this manner is, unfortunately, evidence that you do not understand Islam at all...I am sorry if that reads as rude, it is not intended to be.

I have no idea the truth or fantasy of what she wrote...that she thinks this is "Islam" is the evidence that she is a very sick person.

'Take your fellow commentor “Isabelthecrusader”… on another post she justifiably is upset about something….real or imagined, I know not, but what she wrote was pretty disgusting behavior in a human being, but it was not “Islam”'

Of course it is Islam that permits this. Whenever an attempt is made to change the laws of a nation that allows child marriage, Islamic clerics arise to object.

“A person who commits a crime is a criminal, a person who abides by the law is not.”

So what you are really saying Kegner is that Muslim men who rape to death, beat, maim, disfigure or otherwise murder the women in their orbit are not criminals because they are abiding by the law. That's exactly why you have no business discussing the lofty concept of hate since you live, eat and breathe it in your selfish insistence that you are above all this and a law abiding citizen.

Hypocrite.

"Kegner Bifresye" wrote:

Pontifical questions are usually invitations to an arguemnt for arguements sake...but as well, pontifical answers are mostly fuel for the fire.

But you can answer yourself, you already know the answer.
.......................

Unfortunately, I do have a good sense of what your answers would be here. Your reference to free will here loses all meaning when it involves threats and coercion of other people, as Islam so often does.

More:

One cannot, in claiming obeidence to God, force any human being into a marriage against their will.
.......................

Despite the "Prophet" Muhammed's claim that "silence equals consent", an under-aged child cannot consent to marriage. In addition, this poor child seems to have been anything but silent—hence her "husband" requesting tranquilizers from the clinic and finally resorting to tying the poor girl up before raping and murdering her.

Recently, a group of Yemen's highest Islamic authorities declared those supporting a ban on child marriages to be *apostates*. In other words, that anyone disagreeing with forced child marriage is subject to legal murder.

"...that she thinks this is "Islam" is the evidence that she is a very sick person."

Hey Kegs,

Guess the term "law" is relative, eh? Especially "shariah law," where it's OK to
KILL YOUR RELATIVES!

But being the egalitarian guy (?) you are, I'm sure you're thrilled with this ad-campaign, right? Finally we get to put it back--publicly--to the mendacious muslims, right in their faces! Or, as you so eloquently put it on another thread, "Put the dog's face in the puppy-poo!" I would never question your expertise in THAT area!

G

One can think whatever one wants to, but whether it is fact or fiction remains to be proven.

The error is in one looking at an action of an individual or group and then claiming it has a basis in the religion, through whatever editorial gymnastics or erroneous contextualizing one does, and then demonizing the whole of the religion based upon that factual error in understanding.

Kegner - If this is not Islam, then what is it ? It seems to me that her response is that of a normal human being. The ones who are "sick", are the ones who commit these vile acts, and the ones who either apologize, or are silent, and make excuses, are equally " sick ".

Islam is as inimical to America and its Constitution as are Communism and Nazism and thus anodyne articles about how peaceful and productive a Muslim is here in America, with that terrible FBI annoying the poor dear, means no more to me than if the article dealt with peaceful and productive Marxists or fascists. Islam, Marxism and Nazism are all totalitarian ideologies and, yes, they enjoy the luxury of being able to function fully in free societies, something these ideologies do not accord to other belief systems, but that doesn't mean I have to conclude they are innocuous or beneficial.

Dear Muslim,

It is YOU who is the "very sick person."

Not Isabella! She's healthy as all-get-out!

Brava Isabella the Crusader! Tell it like it is about SICK Islam.

"Islam got all the answers, but don´t allow all the questions."

lol! Good one, Ipso!

How true ....

Ah, let's see here. First comes your boilerplate statement that I'm incapable of understanding. Typical. As for my "intention" in my criticism being the objection, does this mean that someone must have the "right intention" before he criticizes, say, Nazism or Marxism? You see, the intention doesn't matter but rather the substance of the question does. Motive is irrelvant and a query should stand (or fall) on its own merits irrespective of intention.

Regarding any faults in other religions putting down certain human beings, again you reveal your ignorance. No religion but Islam has in its theological blueprint that the non-believer is to be a second-class citizen in this world. Islam is alone here with such things as treating non-believers as the equivalent of human waste and disallowing non-believers the same rights to convert a Muslim as a Muslim has to convert a non-believer. And you can't provide a single example to disprove what I have just averred.

Third point. No, the rot isn't humanity. It's Islam. You know or should know that Allah is an Orwellian tyrant and if Islam is the true religion, which I would bet my life on that it isn't, then this is a very creepy universe and God is a monster. Nope, not humanity. Islam.

Fourth point. What many here at JW mention has nothing to do with Islam? Huh-uh. How about Mohammed bedding a nine-year old girl or ordering thousands upon thousands to be executed? What about the Islamic doctrine that says that a Muslim should be killed if he leaves Islam for another religion? And then there's that damn Koran, which is the most highly repetitive, disturbing, often silly and sometimes downright factually incorrect religious work of all time. Remember my example I gave to you yesterday, of Alexander the Great living to an old age? Well, he died at 33 and the Koran, which Muslims believe is the infallible word of Allah, got it WRONG when it says he lived a long life. Care to explain this one? You see, many who post here at JW know exactly what Islam is about. They've read the Koran, at least some of the Hadith and Sira, studied the sorry-ass record of Islam over some 1400 years and have come to the conclusion, not a hard one to come to, that Islam is putrid. BTW, belief in one God is not unique to Islam. Judaism and Christianity have the same monotheistic belief and so you didn't meet my challenge that there is nothing good in Islam which can't be found elsewhere. In fact, old Mo kinda' stole a belief in one God from the Jews and Christians, plagiarist that he was, though many do think, not without reason, that Allah is not the same deity as the transcendent, ineffable deity of the Bible.

As for the rest of the pap you spouted, no further reply to it is necessary except to say that you prove to so many here at JW that you've drunk the Islamic Kool-Aid and are brainwashed probably beyond redemption. Remember what I said above in my first post, it's not hateful to hate hate and Islam is full of hate and intolerance and possessed of no understanding of true freedom or equality under the law. Now, go bang your head again in the direction of Mecca. I'm done here.

What law ? Whose law ? Laws are made by people, you know. There are Pirate's laws. Which laws would you abide ? Aztec's laws ?
Democracy ? Democracy was 2 millenia ago between the Greek people. It did no apply to their enemies. Do you understand that ? Democracy never applied to enemies.
Don't you even think of applying Democracy to Muslims. They are not a Democratic people. If all they want is to kill or convert us, well we want to kill or convert them. Many Muslims have had enough of Islam. Many of them are coming to the West just to get rid of Islam. To get to breathe. It is hard for them to leave Islam, but they are here just for that. You should identify them and you should help them. Any people wanting to get rid of Islam, is capable enough to be with us. Take them in, because if they are sick of Islam, they are our own.

My God Jesus - the "viral hatred" that is Islam.

Just think how wonderful the world would be without Fascism, Nazism, and Islam. The evil trio.

622 AD - when the world became infected by the virus that is hate-filled, mass-murdering, evil, Islam. By a false prophet Warlord pretending to be "allah," an Arabian pagan moon god.

"Kill non-Muslims wherever you find them. Lie in wait and ambush them, seize and capture them using every stratagem of war." - Qur'an 9:5

Islam sucks. Islam is evil.

True, Jane Smith! ...hear, hear!

Dear Musselman,

Islam is not a "religion." It's a supremacist, totalitarian, 100% intolerant 7th century AD Fascist mass-murdering political ideology.

The Warlord threw in "allah" (that doesn't exist) to give his Fascist ideology religious status. But, like Scientology, it's not a religion. Except that Scientology, as idiotic as it is, doesn't kill people. You do. Islam does. Islam is evil. Scientology is just stupid.

If only Islam was just stupid. But, it's evil. It kills innocent people. It makes girls and women into slaves of men. Islam is disgusting. Islam needs to be eradicated just as the Bubonic Plague was eradicated.

Hi, Isa!

islam makes me sick, so does its founder: muhammad. The more I learn about evil muhammad and his followers, the sicker I get; so I guess that makes me a "very sick person", too, lol ....

"The error is in one looking at an action of an individual or group and then claiming it has a basis in the religion"

An action could be purely-incidental (murderers exist in all faiths I think we agree), or it could be driven by the religion or the belief system.

In the case of the Islamic radicals, their "actions" have taken place since day one of Islam's existence, bringing about the most rapid expansion of an empire in history (perhaps Alexander's Macedonians being the only rival).

Moreover, those individuals themselves insist their actions have a basis in religion, and are guaranteed to get them 72 virgins in paradise (or boys of everlasting youth, like for the Fort Hood major).

Still an "error" to claim their ways have a basis in religion?

"...that she thinks this is "Islam" is the evidence that she is a very sick person."

BWAAWWAAAWWAAAA!!!!!! Hilarious!!!!

You are so blind it's funny.

R U 4 Real?

Oh wait, don't answer that ....

"Where is Kegner Bifresye gone....?"

Yeah, where'd that sick Mohammedan go? Turned tail and ran! Just like all bullies....

No bully like an islamic bully. Just emulating his Warlord - hate-filled Bully mass-murderer Mo.

Kegner said: "A person who commits a crime is a criminal, a person who abides by the law is not."

Nice, so you eblieve the muslim who viciously raped his underaged bride causing fatal internal injuries was not a criminal? According to islam, he broke no laws.

So,do you condemn this specific act of an adult muslim male forcibly raping his underaged wife?

Kegner also said: "One cannot, in claiming obeidence to God, force any human being into a marriage against their will."

Muhammad did. He married a 6 year old who was clearly too young to consent, much less understand what marriage was. Are you saying muhammad was disobedient to God or is his un-consensual marriage an exception?? Or maybe you are saying aisha wasn't a human being. She was after all, just a female, considered in islam to be a lesser being than a male muslim.

Also,muhammad said if a girl was too shy or too afraid to consent, her silence equals consent. Do you agree with that? Do you agree that if a bride-to-be fears rejecting a potential husband, her silence is consent?

I look forward to your direct, un-evasive answers.

Those are all great, Eleanor! ..lol :)

Thanks Champ! I think my fave is "Islam - Wouldn't you really rather have a Buick?" LOL

Nice idea. Witty one liners do have a considerable impact on people. I remember GW's rather witty one liners severely damaging John Kerry's campaign during the 2004 elections.

Here are some of my own suggestions;

No Islam, no party! (Martini)

Islam - We know why you fly! (American Airlines)

There are somethings Jizya cant buy. For everything else there's MasterCard! (MasterCard)

Islam - We try harder! (AVIS)

Islam - Fair and Balanced! (FOX News. My favourite!)

Mecca - “The happiest place on Earth” (Disneyland)

The intention of criticism should be the discovery of truth. I feel you are not interested in the truth, and your point is argument and opposition for the sake of forcing your opinion onto others…you reject the truth, you do not pursue it…criticism should be an academic pursuit, not a degenerate process we find here most of the time...there is Islam and what you mostly detail is not it.

Wellington: “No religion but Islam has in its theological blueprint that the non-believer is to be a second-class citizen in this world.”

Hinduism, “untouchables” go learn something before you make ignorant comments like that.

Wellington: “ And you can't provide a single example to disprove what I have just averred.” ***

Once again your ignorance is displayed, the order is in the Quran not to insult other’s beliefs and to invite in the best manner, furthermore, there are orders in the hadiths for maintaining and respecting their places of worship under Muslim rule, orders not to harm clergy, orders to respect the wishes of a wife from among the people of the book even to the point that a Muslim must take her to her place of worship when she asks…I’d say that pretty much trumps your comment.***

Wellington: Third point.”…”
Non sequitur.

Wellington: Fourth point. “…ordering thousands upon thousands to be executed?”

An absolute lie. History proves you wrong here…less than 3,000 people died during the prophethood in all conflicts combined…even the liberation of Mecca only saw about 20 Pagans who fought back being killed.

Wellington: “What about the Islamic doctrine that says that a Muslim should be killed if he leaves Islam for another religion?”

I’d say your pulling a ruling out of context, and I point to the fact that those I know of entail a punishment of death for high treason …and many secular nations have this same punishment for high treason including the United States.

Wellington: “Remember my example I gave to you yesterday, of Alexander the Great living to an old age? Well, he died at 33 and the Koran, which Muslims believe is the infallible word of Allah, got it WRONG when it says he lived a long life. Care to explain this one?”

Alexander the Great is not named in the Quran. If you say so, prove it. You will never be able to.

There is an unidentified ancient king, and no firm definition about whom the ancient king was…but then again, that isn’t the point of the verse is it? No need to answer, you are incapable of it…people like you are mentioned in the Quran itself…always getting caught up in the minutae never paying attention to the message.

Wellington: “BTW, belief in one God is not unique to Islam. Judaism and Christianity have the same monotheistic belief and so you didn't meet my challenge that there is nothing good in Islam which can't be found elsewhere.”

Again, your lack of understanding…Judaism describes a “god” that became tired and needed rest and was outwrestled by a human being, a prophet, as well as a “god” one that was seen physically by a human being…and Christians worship a man…so no, you are not talking about the same thing. My statement stands and it is absolute: One God, absolute in power, infinite in wisdom, free from all want.

If you unable to learn a basic truth, you can never take the next step and ever end up at the destination…you will always be lost.

Wellington “ I'm done here.”

Yeah, you made your point about as successfully as I feel you are able.

I noticed that you did not respond to my earlier question - " Is this Islam, or isn't it ? I keep an open mind, so a response would be appreciated. If you make a point, I will be the first one to acknowledge it.
As my little boy said on his first day of school, " I'm ready to be teached ".

Oh look - the "very sick person" has returned.

Guess we're just lucky.

AWESOME!! This one's my fave!

"There are somethings Jizya cant buy. For everything else there's MasterCard!" (MasterCard)

English is dying,
DefenderOfIslam is killing it.

True that, Weav02. Kegner certainly seems to have come unglued when the threat of Islam being exposed became a reality with this bus advertising campaign. Any person who believes in freedom of speech should not have a problem with this tit for tat, unless he has something to hide. Funny how many Muslims don't like it at all.

I on the other hand, love disinfecting sunlight.

Sorry to have overlooked your request...it is an odd one...there are volumes on the proper treatment of spouses both from the male and female perspectives...if you were aware of the rights afforded a Muslimah by her husband you'd laugh...the list is very long, and the sister fortunate enough to marry a Muslim well educated in Islam knows it and appreciates it. A sister commented to me once that when the Imam gave her the course material for her marital rights over him she said she felt sorry for her husband because her rights were defined on about eight volumes to his which I think was only one volume. The error is in taking the example of a savage idiot such as Isabellathecrusader was salivating over and elevating it and magnifying it and trying to say that it is "the rule" I am sorry, but this opinion is bigoted garbage propoganda...if it is even true, it's just sick criminal behaviour ... But you know the old adage, "the more outrageous and unbelievable the story the more apt the superstitious (reads brainwashed) are to believe."

"I feel you are incapable of understanding that there is a way to criticize anything in Islam even from the position of a common believer to that of a scholar…it is the intention of the criticism that is key."

How I despise that snotty, condescending tone. Do not come here and presume tell us what we're capable or incapable of understanding.

The intention of criticizing Islam is to point out its intolerance, hateful and violent teachings.

"It is the essence of the message that you miss….take your blinders off and use your mind…."

More condescension.

We've read your so-called holy book. We know its teachings about unbelievers, that we are to be converted, subjugated or killed.

We've read about your so-called prophet. He was a murderer and a child rapist.

We do understand your ideology. THAT is why we want no part of it, and will continue to speak out against it whenever we can.

On this, Kegner & I agree:

"The intention of criticism should be the discovery of truth."

The truth is in what Islam teaches. Since many of us here have read your "holy" book and have already read about the life of Muhammad, we know what those teachings are.

"I feel you are not interested in the truth..."

I don't give a rip about what you "feel". What I care about is what Islam teaches. We know what it teaches.

"there is Islam and what you mostly detail is not it."

You're a liar and you know it. We know what your book teaches. We know what your warlord, child rapist prophet was and did.

Sorry you feel it is condescension...not my intent at all.

I imagine, from what I read here, most of you don't make the effort and study Islam beyond more than the " useful sound bites" you look for to pull put of context in support of your own short coming in understanding the message...that, or blindly following the pundits who publish here, who, for all their volumnous eloquent prose so artfully scripted, could not fill a thimble with true knowledge about what they write...but, oh, can they spew propoganda intenyinally misleading anyone foolish enough to take gem at face value.

All I can think it is a whole series of BASF slogans...

Islam - we don't make suicide bombers, we make them deadlier.

Islam - we don't make stones, we make them lethal.

Islam - we don't make pedophiles, we make raping children legal.

Islam - we don't make kufars, we make them headless.

Islam - we didn't invent slavery, we just keep slavery alive.

Thanks for responding to my question, but I take issue with you on the following :

1) I do not think that my original question was " odd ", in any way. It was a straight forward question.

2) Isabellathecrusader is justifiably outraged and sickened, over the rape and death of a young girl. This is not an isolated incident ( I wish it were ). Child marriage is sanctioned in Islam - witness Indonesia.

3)I'll take your word about the Muslim woman who felt sorry for her husband, because of the great marital rights she enjoys over her husband. But it is not a satisfactory answer to me, because of the numerous cases of wife beating and spousal abuse that I read about daily.And they are all sanctioned by Islam - there's no getting away from it.

4) I'm glad that you consider this sick, criminal behavior - because it is. But this sickness is written directly into the Koran ( followed by 1.2 billion human beings ) - once again, there is no way around it.

As I said earlier, I do keep an open mind about all things. But I remain unconvinced by your response.

KB - islam is inimical to the truth. A mohammedan writing about truth and knowledge: preposterous.

The Islamic principle of abrogation - your principle - violates the fundamental law of logic: non-contradiction. Allah is arbitrary. God, the real God, is the embodiment of truth and He cannot deny Himself.

We have nearly 1400 years of evidence of the primitive, violent nature of this wicked ideology. Your mendacious responses in defense of this evil religion will not avail you.

I cannot help but notice how the oily slick nature of your discourse mirrors that of the serpent. No surprise since that is the one whom you worship.

We're on to your taqiyya.

Islam is an affront to God.

"The error is in taking the example of a savage idiot such as Isabellathecrusader."

Oh, that is rich. Let's get something straight here, shall we? It is you who is the savage idiot. Capische? Apparent in every comment as you spew your rubbish.

And, as far as calling her views "bigoted garbage propaganda" - Wrong, again. Actually, that's a good description of Islam. Hey - thanks for providing that! You contributed something useful, Musselman!

Good ones! The only exposure to I ever had to BASF were the cassette tapes. They were junk IMO. And the way they advertised was so "mysterious," at least to me. I always thought 'if they didn't make any of the products, they just made them better, what did they do?? How did they make them better??'

No one could ever tell me (and my growth was stunted as a result, I'm sure)!

LOL.

Of course we didn't have any way to instantly look things up way back then (late 70's).

English is dying,
DefenderOfIslam is killing it.

Here's another ad slogan for Islam:

Absolut Crap (Absolut vodka)

"I cannot help but notice how the oily slick nature of your discourse mirrors that of the serpent. No surprise since that is the one whom you worship."

Good point, Paladin! ...and if KB knocked on my door trying to sell me on the idea of converting to islam with the kinds of statements that he's making here, then I would slam the door in his face. I mean if he's suppose to represent what's 'good' about islam, then God help us ....

Garbage in, garbage out.

'The error is in taking the example of a savage idiot such as Isabellathecrusader was salivating over and elevating it and magnifying it and trying to say that it is "the rule" I am sorry, but this opinion is bigoted garbage propoganda...if it is even true, it's just sick criminal behaviour ...'

Oh dear, you have a problem here Kegner, don't you. Because there are thousands and thousands of dead Muslimas and thousands and thousands of their Muslim fathers/brothers/husbands/uncles who are there murderers. You don't really think anybody is going to buy into your B.S. do you? We aren't buying that the pathetic coward Muzzammil Hassan was so abused by his 90-pound-soaking-wet wife that he had to, just had to, kill her and cut her head off. Not buying. Hassan is a Muslim and so was his wife.

Then there was Banaz Mahmod who was murdered by a man her father and uncles paid to kill her. The guy was said to have stomped on her neck and was frustrated because she just wouldn't die. (Dang!) All Muslims, in stereo. Not buying.

Then there was Abdalla Yones who stabbed his daughter, Heshu, at least 11 times and cut her throat with a kitchen knife for having a Christian boyfriend and dressing in western fashions. He was horrified at what he regarded as a stain on the family’s name and, desperate to restore his honour, stabbed her to death. He and she were in fact, both Muslims. Not buying.

Then there was Garfar Kirimov, A Muslim of St. Petersburg who told police he paid gangsters almost $3,000 to shoot his daughter after she refused to wear traditional Muslim attire for women. He had asked her to stop wearing make-up, tight tops and short skirts. The 21-year-old girl was shot and killed by the hit men as she left her medical college. Dad and daughter were both Muslims. Not buying.

Then there was Mehmet Goren who murdered his daughter Tulay because she had a boyfriend he did not approve of and because he feared she was pregnant. Tulay's mother testified against her husband and has received death threats from the family's Turkish Muslim community. So much for all those women's rights under Islam. Not buying.

Then there is the one about the 16 year old Muslim girl who was buried alive by her Father and Grandfather and found last December in Southeastern Turkey. Apparently, according to the girl's insecure Muslim father, he was upset that she had male friends. Dad and grandpa are Muslims. The dead girl was Muslim. tell us again how this story has been blown out of proportion. Not buying.

Then there was Rofayda Qaoud who was raped by her brothers, Fahdi, 22, and Ali, 20 and became pregnant. Her Muslim mother didn't like this and "suggested" Rofayda commit suicide (I know, I know, not allowed in Islam) but she refused. So mom wrapped a plastic bag around her head, slashed her wrists and hit her in the head with a stick. Voila! No more embarrassing Muslim daughter in this devout Muslim family. Sorry Keggie, not buying.

Then there was this unfortunate Muslim murder. In November 1989 in St. Louis, the FBI inadvertently tape recorded the entire episode of a teenage girl's being killed by her Palestinian father and Brazilian mother (the Feds were looking for evidence of terrorism, which they also found). In a ghastly eight-minute sequence, Zein Isa stabbed his daughter Palestina thirteen times with a butcher's knife as his wife held the girl down and responded to Palestina's pleas for help with a brutal "Shut up!" The killing ends with Zein screaming "Die! Die quickly! Die quickly! . . . Quiet, little one! Die, my daughter, die!" By this time, she is dead. You can read all about it yourself in a book called "Guarding the Secrets: Palestinian Terrorism and a Father's Murder of His Too-American Daughter" by Ellen Harris. Dad and daughter were both Muslims. Will buy the book but not buying Kegners lies about isolated incidents involving Muslims.

Then there is the Muslim man from Morocco named El Ketawi Dafani who is facing murder charges after being arrested for allegedly killing his 18-year old daughter last fall. He slit her throat because she was planning to move in with her 31 year old boyfriend and dad did not approve.

Anyone else beginning to notice a pattern here that Kegner does not want anyone to notice? Muslim dad's killing (and sometimes Muslim moms) Muslim daughters for a) not acting Muslim enough b) for dating or wanting to marry non-Muslim men or boys or c) for dressing in western clothes while living in western countries (that one's a shocker.)

Nice try Kegner but do a Google search for "Muslim murders daughter" and you'll get 2,000,000 hits. That's 2 million hon. Sorry, you can whine and lie an d change the subject all you want to but Muslims murder their daughters in honor killings at an alarming rate and no one is buying your B.S. here. Maybe you could peddle it over at the CAIR website.

I thought you might reply in the ignorant manner that you did and you didn't disappoint. To begin with, I figured you might mention the untouchables in Hinduism. I do indeed find this doctrine unacceptable to say the least, BUT this applies not to non-believers but to other believers WITHIN the Hindu system. My point was that no other religion treats with non-believers as Islam does, i.e., the equivalent of human waste. So wise up and read more carefully next time. And, of course, my challenge still remains, a challenge which you have not met.

As for the Koran instructing Muslims not to insult other peoples' belief systems, you've got to be kidding. The Koran is full of disrespect for Jews, Christians, polytheists and everyone who does not accept Mohammed's view of things. And let's not forget all the destruction of Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, etc., religious structures over the centuries by Muslims. I'm sure you'd be awfully popular telling a crowd of Hindus or Buddhists that Islam respects other religions. You're either lying here or are deluded. There is no third alternative.

Yeah, I've heard the high treason argument from Muslims before as a way of obviating the death for apostasy provision in Islam but it doesn't wash. If it did, then why do so many Muslims worldwide want a convert from Islam to another faith dead? Remember the guy in Afghanistan several years ago, the one Karzai had to spirit out of the country because he had converted from Islam to Christianity and polls taken in Afghanistan showed that over 90% of Muslims thought he should be killed. As Robert Spencer has pointed out innumerable times, if Islam is so tolerant and peaceful, how is it that so many Muslims misunderstand their own religion? Nice try with the old treason excuse but it's very lame and not convincing in the least.

As for Alexander the Great, he is in the Koran. Try Sura 18 where Dhul-Qarnayn has been identified as Alexander by such sources, as Robert Spencer has noted, as the Tafsir al-Jalalayn. Many Muslims authorities, including Muhammad al-Ghazali, have identified Dhul-Qarnayn as Alexander or at least have asserted that this person is very likely the Macedonian conqueror. Moreover, there are so many other errors in the Koran. Here are a few: In Sura 5 the Christian Trinity is described as the Father, Mother and Son. In Sura 9 Ezra is characterized as the person whom the Jews think is the Son of God. In Sura 20 there is a mention of a Samaritan as one who helped build the golden calf while Moses lived and yet Samaritans didn't exist until about a thousand years after Moses. The Koran is replete with errors, not to mention being a very boring, tedious, repetitive and disturbing work.

Finally, if you don't comprehend that Judaism and Christianity are monotheistic religions, that's your problem, not mine. Don't indulge yourself by pathetic reasoning, such as thinking that because Christians believe that God came down to earth in the form of a man for some third of a century that this means that Christians don't believe in on God. They do. I'm not religious in the least but anyone who says that Christians don't have monotheism as the basis of their faith is an ignoramus, which would probably include all Muslims. After all, if God exists and is all powerful, why couldn't He take the form of a man if He wanted to? Think it over-----if you can. Done here.

Champ,
Or consider the color spectrum: all the colors flow without any break into one another. The rainbow is one, yet somehow many; many, yet somehow one.

The notion that unity must always exclude multiplicity, and vice versa, is a materialistic prejudice. If one is considering only the physical aspect of the physical world, two objects cannot occupy or overlap in the same space at the same time -- in that case, unity and multiplicity do exclude one another (though even there, the mutual exclusion is not absolute). But in non-physical realities, and in physical realities that sufficiently incarnate non-physical realities, unity and multiplicity do not exclude one another. Thus to say that the Trinity is monotheistic need not be a contradiction, unless your thought is totally dominated by the physical aspect of the physical world.

Good point, Traeh :)

"Is anyone else having difficulty using the "donate here" link provided by Robert Spencer in the above article?"

Yes, when I click on "donate here" this message pops up:

"Sorry — your last action could not be completed"

Champ, thank you for that confirmation. So it's not just my computer. Something is wrong with the donate link. I'll send a note to Robert Spencer.

Hinduism, “untouchables” go learn something before you make ignorant comments like that.

It's time for you to learn something, before you make ignorant comments yourself. Untouchability was a social practice in India, that has spanned the entire spectrum of society. Yes, it may come to you as a surprise that even the so called "lower castes" practiced untouchability, while the "upper castes' have got all the bad press. Incidentally, no Hindu scripture sanctions untouchability and there are just two verse in Manu-smriti, a fat medieval law book, not a holy scripture, popularised by the British in the 19th century, which describes only corpses, handlers of corpses and menstruating women, as those that may not be touched, not an irrational view by any means.

slothy, that's a very good point. Hinduism is not a revealed religion with any specific text that's mandatory for its followers. Its scriptures usually focus on self-mastery,non-violence, simple living and benevolence to all others. Most importantly, it is a constructive, life affirmative world view, not a destructive death cult like islam.

And in the US and a number of Western Societies, muslims who support and practice child marriage are plain and simple criminals. Pedophiles, muslim or catholic priest for that matter, deserve lifetime incarceration if not the death penalty as the evidence points to little help of reform for these individuals.

The ideology of islam that perpetuates these atrocities is disgusting. Allah, using the pure translation that Arabic Christians used before Mohamy's thugs slaughtered and suppressed them in the 7th century, weeps at these crimes committed in his name.

The core tennets of your islamic ideology are repulsive and you should just flat out state them. Oh that's right, one of your core beliefs and commands from your illiterate, pedophile, woman beater "prophet" is to LIE to non-believers.

It's not hatred. It's the repulsion from the vileness of your beliefs that allow these actions to be carried out under the pretext of following God's will and teachings that we express here.

Focus, kegner ....

Not all muslims are terrorists, but why are most -- if not ALL, terrorists MUSLIM?

btw, that was a rhetorical question. I already know the answer ...

I read what you wrote, but it does not read as “open minded” you seem to have preconceived notions that are erroneous:

1) It is an odd question because the incident is so far removed from the rule, that is just a fact. You maay not be aware of the truth – the actual rules, granted, and thus, my knowledge of the rule does make your question sound odd to me.

2) “Rape and death” ...there is no basis or foundation for that in any religion in conduct of a man with a wife, period...it is not "the rule" it is what it is.

3) In America alone there are documented well of half a million violent attacks against women partners per year…there is no sanction in secular law or Islamic law for this practice rather there is legislation restricting it, preventing it, and hadiths that caution against it. It is an existing problem in all societies that still needs eradicating.

4) You have a critical failure in understanding….it is not “written…into Koran” and the Quran is not followed by 1.2 billion human beings…there are those who claim to be Muslim and yet do not even pray…that is the biggest problem…lack of education. Knowledge and action on that knowledge IS the “way around it” as you put it.

You will remain unconvinced until you understand that there is a rule and a command for a proper way of living as a Muslim and then there are the things highlighted here, and other media as well like this one, for propogandic purposes, that I feel, most of you have educated yourselves.

Were I to look at the world society at large, its treatment of human beings across the board, I could condemn and damn all of humanity regardless of what others say by merely pointing out the evil actions of some in a group and then pointing to where I “think” the motive lay, rather than pointing to the criminal and condemning them for their criminality.

I thought you were already “Done here.” ?

The core tennets of your islamic ideology are repulsive and you should just flat out state them. Oh that's right, one of your core beliefs and commands from your illiterate, pedophile, woman beater "prophet" is to LIE to non-believers.

The 'core tennets' of Islam are easily explained at this site:

http://crazyislam.typepad.com/home/muslim-commandments/

Abridged form gives quick read, then dig deeper with some meaningful 'deepening' of those tenets by reading the actual Koranic texts, and adjacent Hadiths. We should urge this of all Muslims visiting here. Though they may not like it, it's for their own good. Insh'Allah. The 'Freedom Bus' is here.

Kegner,
You are right in the sense that human beings have an amazing capacity for cruelty and atrocities against each other and the interconnected world that humanity calls home.

Can't argue that there are substantial numbers of violent incidents against women all around the world. Personally I believe that any man who harms a woman or a child is not really a man at all. How do you explain the cultural anthropologists who have found societies either in the deep Amazon or remote Asian Pacific islands that did not have a word for rape in their societies? Guess what, those tribes certainly weren't muslims!

BUT, islam promotes violence against women and sanctions it in sharia and the haddiths. I've seen it first hand in wonderfully moderate muslim states like Malaysia, Indonesia and the UAE. A woman in Malaysia was going to get caned for choosing to drink a beer. That's her choice if she wants to ignore a religious edict. Unfortunately, the number of good and peaceful muslims who are beating and killing their daughters in the US IS rising. Why is that? What compels these individuals? Why do they often quote the teachings of their ideology as justification for their actions?

Also why is it that I'm not reading lots of news stories of Christian men beating and killing their daughters for dating a non-Christian or wearing "inappropriate" clothing?

Keeping apologizing for the brutality of your ideology and cult. It makes for interesting reading while I think about how I'm going to protect my daughter and wife from your jack-ass fellow believers the next time we want to go explore the natural wonders in some moderate islamic state.

Your belief system is based on the ramblings of a pedophile, illiterate thug. Your book was compiled by the associates of those who murdered your prophet. Your religion has been used to justify the destruction of cultural artifacts, and hey you know what, so has my Christian faith. But that is the perversion that mankind brings to God's teachings. However, I can read my holy texts and find the tenets of real faith, of peace, love and the forgiveness of sins. My spiritual journey is mine and my God's. It is not up to you to change that for your version of faith and spirituality. That is the beauty of the separation of Church and State enshrined by Thomas Jefferson and the other founding fathers.

Done with a statement but never done addressing the many errors, idiocies and barbarities found in Islam. Disillusion yourself of at least one of your many errors and it's this: Many commenters here at JW despise Islam not, as you allege, because they don't know the true Islam, but precisely because they do. It is futile to continue to maintain that people who have read the Koran, Hadith and Sira and have studied Islamic doctrines and have watched Muslims in action (e.g., the over 15,000 Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide just since 9/11) and who are repulsed by all they read and see don't know Islam. Defend Islam if you must, why you would is your businsess, but don't tell us anymore that we are ignorant. We are not. We know exactly what Islam is about and how despicable a human being Mohammed was. No more crap about proper context or improper intentions and all that rot. What you find acceptable we find repellent. Deal with it.

Thanks, Isabella. Yeah, ole Kegner is a persistent little taqiyya practitioner. I know some think that someone like him should not be responded to, and there's validity in this point of view, but now and again I think it helps to take on a Mohammedan, just to let him or her know we know what their religion is really about and that we're not going to budge. Ever. Hope you're well and my thanks to you for playing.

I fully agree with you and enjoy post from you, Isabella, Hugh, Elanor and so many more here.

Keep up the good work in standing up to tryanny, lies and taqiyya.

Best Wishes all.

Dear Foolster41

reading your comment took any chance for discussion, if its true what you say then you are encouraging every one around to start preparing for war, wow

i thought i know about the West enough to say that i have a half Western mind and life style, guess i've been wrong.

what i said was what i keep repeating cause i defend the woman rights so thanks alot for the way you described me :)

and one last question, how can you be sure that you understand this kind of Quran translation,
what if i will come and ask about this
(kill all the infants)
isnt this is the Bible, what if i will take it and say to every Muslims that the Bible is asking Christians to kill.

this is not the way to reach a better understanding or to live in peace, guess we wont ever live in peace.

thanks a lot again for opening my eyes, i really appreciate that :)

bye4now

oops
i forgot to add a link in case you dont read the Bible so maybe this will refresh your memory and of course am sending the link to everyone who participated in this discussion

you say you know enough about Quran and you know what does it mean "kill the unbeliever where ye find him."

so as long am not a Christian what do you expect me to understand from "kill all the infants"

take a look at the Bible and i'll be waiting

http://bible.cc/numbers/31-17.htm

Dear Foolster

i've been busy in the last couple of days and before i answer you i would love for some more about this

"subjugate and rape unbelievers"

will you plz provide me where is this mentioned

hope you gonna check this page read and answer my question.

bye4now