This is an attempt to set up a game of legal "chicken" by restricting a woman's movements even more and blaming it on the state's efforts to prevent it... not unlike the frequently encountered, circular argument that fighting back against jihad is the root cause of jihad. Italian authorities, for their part, may want to consider the application of rules on wrongful imprisonment.
"Fined burqa-clad wife will never step out," from Mid-Day, May 5 (thanks to all who sent this in):
The Muslim husband of the first woman in Italy to be fined for wearing a burqa has vowed to never let her outside again, because he doesn't want other men looking at her.
Amel Marmouri (26), was handed a penalty of 500 euros (Rs 2,900) after being spotted by police officers in a post office in the northern city of Novara.
The fine is the first case of its kind in the country.
Cash crunch
But the Tunisian's husband, Ben Salah Braim (36), said she will now have to remain indoors.
"I just don't know where we are going to get 500 euros to pay the fine. We thought as she was going to the mosque she was OK to wear the burqa.
"We knew about the law and I know that it's not against my religion but now Amel will have to stay indoors. I can't have other men looking at her," he added.
Under Italian anti-terrorist laws brought in during the 1970s to fight political activism, it is illegal to be seen in a public place with your face covered.
It had never been fully enforced but, earlier this year, Novara Mayor Massimo Giordano introduced new local laws banning any clothing that 'prevents the immediate identification of the wearer inside public buildings, schools and hospitals'
Giordano said, "I signed the new regulations for reasons of security but also so that people who come to live in our city are aware and respect our traditions. The regulations in Novara specifically cover people wearing clothing that prevents them from being identified in a public place, and a post office is a public place.
"This is the only way to stop behaviour that makes the already difficult process of integration even harder."
Police chief Paolo Cortese said, "The fine was given because the woman was inside the post office at the time, which is a public building."
Muslim support
Muslim groups in Italy insisted that Italian laws must be respected Imam Izzedin Elzir, president of the Islamic Community and Organisations Union in Italy, said, "We are for the freedom of women and against veils of any kind and Italian laws must be respected."
"We as an organisation have always said that we are against face veils in Italy because the law of recognition has to be observed," he added.
Surely he knows better than anybody what a risk that might be.
I mean if your ... was only ...
And if on top of that you ... and couldn't ...
And still you ...
Well, I think you see what I mean.
But, were that the case in your life, would you want your wife to know that other men were looking at her?
"But the Tunisian's husband, Ben Salah Braim (36), said she will now have to remain indoors.
"I just don't know where we are going to get 500 euros to pay the fine."
What I read in some of the other media.....
Unemployed Ben Salah Braim, 36, said: 'I just don't know where we are going to get 500 euros to pay the fine.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk
Unemployed eh...what a surprise (not).
Repay some of the jaziyah bludger!
Interesting that this law was crafted in the era of the Red Brigades to fight terror in general and had nothing to do with any "religion" and probably few if any objected to it at the time it was enacted.
BTW - where is the women's movement? In addition to false imprisonment laws, what about the attitude - women = property, no different than a dog??? The silence remains deafening.
Being forced to wear the burkah is bad enough, being forced to stay behind closed doors is worse...it just goes to show...a Muslim woman has no identity, no face, no freedom....just the way the Muslim male likes it.
http://newstime.co.nz/2010/dhimmi-to-quran-9-29-dr-rohe-dr-thielman-of-the-university-in-erlangen-germany.html
The ultivatives Dhimmi Dhimmi's judge Dr. Rohe & Dr. Thielmann (Germany) who are co-dependent child molesers and pedophile apologizers
He speaks as though he owns his wife. Oh wait, being a Muslim man I guess he thinks he does.
Why do Muslim women wear the Burqa?
im doing a project on muslims at school and i would like to know why muslim women wear the Burqa and how it cab be a positive experience for a woman
It is time to charge these husbands with human rights violations...
Both ideas are good: Prosecute him for imprisoning his wife if he does carry out his threat of not letting her out of the house AND have a feminist group shouting on his landing that he is treating his wife as a piece of property.
The first option requires the wife to admit that he is keeping her inside the house against her will (which she probably won't) but the second option has no such problem.
If this man is so into sharia laws, why is he living in Italy anyway? It is a Christian nation.
It is not a positive experience.
Period.
It is an awful, demeaning garment meant to deny the most basic human rights to muslim women.
Troll alert.
Agreed Kim - troll alert. Barcode returning for another intellectual ass-kicking perhaps? Certainly the desire to 'learn' is reminiscent of Barcode's opening gambit (before it completely lost it and broke out in frothing at the mouth misogeny).
Oh, and on the subject of burqas, this from the Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/7685027/Woman-in-burka-sparks-flight-emergency.html
Seems some beefy muslimah was suspected of being a bloke, and it caused understandable consternation. Guess it was only a matter of time before this happened, but what's the betting this is followed up by an attack of lawfare by the muslimah and her owner...sorry, husband?
"Muslim groups in Italy insisted that Italian laws must be respected .."
Funny.
They don't respect us or our laws, period. But when the wind blows "in an ugly direction" they quickly back off, don't they?
Sad that we don't dig our heels in on every occasion and tell them to shove it.
Does this make sense then:
“If politeness and ceremony be observed toward Mohammedans, they imagine they are feared and become arrogant; but in showing severity and rudeness, they are impressed with fear and respect, and they are supple and manageable.”
–North China Herald,1867
" i would like to know why muslim women wear the Burqa and how it cab be a positive experience for a woman
..how can it be a positive experience for a woman?
You should ask muslim women, your imam, or some islamic webside. Or, better still, put on a burqa and find out for yourself. Please, do come back and share with us the answer as soon as you have it.
The husband now has a choice: Let other men look at his wife without her burqa (i.e., admit that his wife is a human being, a free individual, not under his thumb), or confine her to the home (as he obviously feels he has the right to do) in which case he'll have to do the shopping, run errands, take the kids to the doctors, etc.
The wife though has a bigger choice: Stay home as hubby tells her to and become a recluse, isolated from life outside of her four walls, or (and here the taste of freedom might tempt her) stand up to him and use the power of the state to curb her husband's presumed authority over her.
Will she have the courage for the latter?
My guess is that practicality will rule the day, and this Muslimah will leave home without her burqa and hubby will go along with it, blaming the state.
"I just don't know where we are going to get 500 euros to pay the fine. We thought as she was going to the mosque she was OK to wear the burqa.
"We knew about the law and I know that it's not against my religion but now Amel will have to stay indoors. I can't have other men looking at her," he added.
-- from the article above
Why stay in Italy? It has so many intolerable churches and cathedrals. It has offensive statues -- Muhammad wouldn't tolerate them for one minute -- all over the place. It has museums full of unacceptable painitings and sculpture. It has men and women talking, laughing, flirting, on the streets, in the cafes, in the shops. It's a horrible place for a Believer. Why torment yourself? For god's sake, Tunisia beckons, with your relatives, your friends, your faith (kept in check just a bit by President Ben Ali and the ghost of Habib Bourguiba). Why stay in Italy?
But perhaps you are not the person to ask. Perhaps the Italian government should be asked: why are such people allowed into Italy in the first place? Surely by now everyone in Italy -- land of Oriana Fallaci -- knows that Muslim immigrants are different from all others because they carry with them, in their mental baggage, undeclared, a Total Belief-System that makes them incapable of real loyalty to the legal and political institutions of Italy, or indeed to be anything but hostile to everything that makes Italy Italy.
What does it take to have the government's immigration and naturalization policy reflect that clear understanding?
Hey Italy is a free country and he doesn't want other men looking at her. Leave him alone to practice his religion and way of life
"We knew about the law and I know that it's not against my religion but now Amel will have to stay indoors. I can't have other men looking at her,"
So it's all about him, insecure little bugger...'Macho, Macho man, I wanna be your Macho man'...Fine, but it would help if you grow up first...
........I bet only 0.01% of Italian men would want to look at her anyway...
"Agreed Kim - troll alert. Barcode returning for another intellectual ass-kicking perhaps? Certainly the desire to 'learn' is reminiscent of Barcode's opening gambit (before it completely lost it and broke out in frothing at the mouth misogyny)."
Yeah - it's obviously a fake post, and it's obvious a Muslim wrote it.
Poetcomic1,
I'm guessing you're being facetious.
Here's what I envision, along the lines of leaving Muhammedans to their way of life in free countries: "No go" zones springing up like toadstools, all over the place.
"We knew about the law and I know that it's not against my religion but now Amel will have to stay indoors. I can't have other men looking at her," he added.
How about that, folks? A stated intention to abuse his spouse.
So the Mohammedan husband admits the his wife will be kept under house arrest. Is there an Italian law against false imprisonment?
Is the man an immigrant? If so, it's obvious that his assimilation is incomplete. That should be grounds for deportation.
And evne, why of course the burqa has it benefits! A Muslima can cover all her bruises beneath it, saving her husband from battering charges.
Toting a bomb? Again, a burqa is very useful for smuggling anything bigger than a breadbox. Hope those real-life examples were helpful, dear.
"We knew about the law and I know that it's not against my religion but now Amel will have to stay indoors. I can't have other men looking at her," he added.
It's not against my religion. Hmm. Is he admitting that women don't have to wear the burqa?
"im doing a project on muslims at school and i would like to know why muslim women wear the Burqa and how it cab be a positive experience for a woman"
Smith Evne, (Smith Evne?) if you want to be taken for an infidel you'll have to take a remedial English class. You'll especially want to work on spelling, capitalization and punctuation.
Pulsar wrote:
Being forced to wear the burkah is bad enough, being forced to stay behind closed doors is worse...
.....................
They are both forms of Purdah (seclusion of women), Pulsar. The burqa has been referred to as "portable purdah".
More:
Italian authorities, for their part, may want to consider the application of rules on wrongful imprisonment.
.....................
Indeed. Ben Salah Braim should have much bigger concerns than how he is going to pay that 500 Euro fine. He needs to learn that you can't treat your spouse like a piece of property in the civilized West.
I'm glad to know that Italy has followed the examples of France and Belgium in banning burqas in public places. It's a start in pushing back against the Islamization of Europe.
It's very heartening—I hope Italy doesn't back down over the threats of barbarian Muslims like Braim to make things even worse for "their" women.
"Muslim groups in Italy insisted that Italian laws must be respected Imam Izzedin Elzir, president of the Islamic Community and Organisations Union in Italy, said, "We are for the freedom of women and against veils of any kind and Italian laws must be respected."
"We as an organisation have always said that we are against face veils in Italy because the law of recognition has to be observed," he added. Untill such time as we have the power then we will make the filthy Kuffar pay for this !
Lets face it is bollocks. Kick em out, now.
Good point, Wellington ...abusers objectify women, so you've hit the nail on the head!
"im doing a project on muslims at school and i would like to know why muslim women wear the Burqa and how it cab be a positive experience for a woman"
Try wearing it yourself for a semester ...
That should answer all of your questions, and then please let us know how positive an experience it was for YOU.
"...because he doesn't want other men looking at her."
And I'm certain that her husband doesn't check out other women, right? Right!
I think we also have a Double Standard Alert ...
"Yeah - it's obviously a fake post, and it's obvious a Muslim wrote it."
I agree, Kim ... and I think that "Barquest" might be right, and that smith is recycled barcode using his same ole schtick.
Islam-Italy: Due headscarf, abused woman and child to Egypt kidnapped and raped.
http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdolomitengeisteu-dolomitengeist.blogspot.com%2F&sl=de&tl=en&hl=de&ie=UTF-8
Sorry Link direkt
http://dolomitengeisteu-dolomitengeist.blogspot.com/2010/05/islam-italienwegen-kopftuch-frau.html
1.)
UK:
"Robber uses woman's burkha as disguise"
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Burkha-And-Hijab-Used-As-Robbery-Disguise-Capri-Jewellers-In-Bury-Raided-By-Masked-Gang/Article/201005115626601?f=rss
2.)
Sydney, Australia:
"Robber disguised in black burqa"
http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2010/05/06/Robber-disguised-in-black-burqa/UPI-55401273173145/
Hugh
'Why stay in Italy ? '
It is a terible life for a believer , as you say
But like a lot of people doing something that's not that to their taste , but that brings in an income , the money's good so they stay on and suffer
The money's good. Yes, those state handouts are very generous. So the poor muslims will stay and suffer. How terrible to be forced by circumstances to live with infidels!
Italy is turnly racist I see. May-be the mayor needed to be arrested for human right abuse.
SPELL CHECK: Italy is turning racist, I see. Maybe the mayor needed to be arrested for human rights abuse.
SELF CHECK: Italy is not turning racist, I see, and I am an idiot for thinking so. Maybe the mayor needs to have me placed under arrest for supporting human rights abuse.
...you're welcome :)
Champ!
I was afraid we'd have to call Eleanor in on this DOI case--but I see you have it handled nicely!
Yuor frnd in than hateing,
Geroge
The Muslim husband of the first woman in Italy to be fined for wearing a burqa has vowed to never let her outside again, because he doesn't want other men looking at her.
This is exactly what I predicted would happen with the veil ban. First they would stage mass demonstrations claiming 'human rights' violations and if that didn't work, muslimas would be imprisoned in their own homes. If this trend expands, it would be an ideal opportunity for oppressed muslim women to revolt, assuming they oppose house arrest for life. They are protected by Western laws which forbid false imprisonment. If there is any real desire on the part of muslimas to escape the hell of islam, this might be the best chance they've ever had and if they should happen to rebel en masse, misogynic islam would face a serious challenge to its enslavement of females. Without enslaved females, islam dies.
When muslimas realize they have been condemned to live out their lives in the suffocating confines of 900 sq. ft. apartments, maybe they will rise up and demand the right to fresh air, sunshine, and space, and tell their slave master husbands to drop dead. But I won't hold my breath. Most of them would probably prefer to suffer from vitamin D deficiency and cabin fever. I expect the insanity rate and death rate for muslim females will skyrocket.
As I've said before, you're a perfect example of a brain on Islam.
Kinneddar - I heard (supposedly) that this "man" has three other "wives", so I do wonder how they will all get along. Who will do the shopping since all of them can no longer wear a burqa? I also heard that he said that he didn't actually have four wives, but one wife and three mistresses. What self-respecting Muslim woman would ever want to be referred to as a "mistress"? Wouldn't that shame her and involve adultery? Italy should throw them out.
...thanks, George!
Yeah Elly cracks me up ..and so do you!! :)
Right wing extremist Tony Abbott has called for the banning of the Burqa mimicking France laws. Feminists and left wing groups generally do not support this. Surprisingly, I do - but not in the way that Tony Abbott or any other right wing extremists would have it.
Read more here:
http://bettermillenium.blogspot.com/2010/05/to-burqa-or-not-to-burqa.html
Non-Muslim Italian womanhood; and why it is that Italian culture and society and the hideous Muslim female Slave Mask just do. not. mix.
Sophia Loren.
http://mazeofthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/sophia_loren.jpg
Isabella Rosselini (what happened when Ingrid Bergman married an Italian).
http://images.publicradio.org/content/2006/11/03/20061103_rossellini_2.jpg
A toast to the Ladies, everywhere!
See Virginia! I TOLD you that there actually were moderate Muslim leaders... look closely and be careful not to scare him off; they are very shy and do not tend to live long compared to their fanatical cousins.
GO Izzedin Elzir MY MAN!!@!!!!
http://hereticscrusade.com Home of Anti-Partisan Punditry
Something from youtube that seems to me to be the perfect infidel riposte to this sour-faced Mohammedan enslaver of women.
Sez he: "Amel will have to stay indoors. I can't have other men looking at her."
But we Infidels say:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0cJnVeiMrw
Fitna galore!! Note that the girl in the video has no real fear of her father's even *dreaming* of doing anything bad to her - as he would, were he a Muslim. No shadow of an 'honor murder' hangs over this mini-film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girls_Just_Want_to_Have_Fun
(You will note that the song was originally written by a man from a man's POV:
in which case this verse -
Some boys take a beautiful girl
And hide her away from the rest of the world
I want to be the one to walk in the sun
Oh girls they want to have fun
Oh girls just want to have
if read in a man's voice, is stating in effect that he has no intention of locking *his* woman up in a box as 'some boys' do; instead, he - unlike those other benighted boys - prefers to publicly bask in her reflected glory - "I just wanna walk in the sun").
A small correction to the above.
I quoted a verse of the song and left out a word at the end.
It should have read:
"Some boys take a beautiful girl
And hide her away from the rest of the world
I want to be the one to walk in the sun
Oh girls they want to have fun
Oh girls just want to have fun."
Full lyrics can be found at this link:
http://www.lyrics007.com/Cyndi%20Lauper%20Lyrics/Girls%20Just%20Want%20To%20Have%20Fun%20Lyrics.html
The original composer and author of the lyrics was Robert Hazard and the song first came out in 1979.
From the wikipedia article: "The song was written by Robert Hazard, who recorded it in 1979. He wrote it from a male point of view. For Lauper's version, she changed the lyrics slightly to allow it to be performed by a female and Hazard approved the minor changes."
Post scriptum.
I really should add that it was my *husband* who thought of the song I have just posted, above, and who found the link for me. I had told him about the Mohammedan in Italy who was declaring the intention of shutting his wife up and not letting anyone else look at her; and that was what reminded my husband of the line, "some boys take a beautiful girl/ and lock her away from the rest of the world".
Tanstaafl
you posted, in response to the images of Sophia Loren and Isabella Rossellini, "and a toast to the ladies everywhere".
Let me, in response to *you*, on behalf of the ladies here present, propose a toast to the gentlemen.
Over the past several years, as I have learned more, and yet more, about the appalling way that men generally and routinely treat women - their wives, sisters, cousins, mothers, daughters, and the random women they see in the street - within dar al Islam, I have gained an ever-deepening appreciation of ordinary *Western* men; of the general run of sane, decent, civilised non-Muslim men, who DON'T feel it necessary to lock a woman up in a box or cover her with a sack; and who have learned, most of them, to look, and appreciate, perhaps at most to emit an admiring whistle; but not to grab.
I no longer take for granted my father, my uncles, my husband, my brothers, my son, and the guys I see in the street and at church, or picking up their kids from school; or the old soldiers who march in the Anzac Day marches, they who fought the Nazis and the Japanese imperialists and then, later, the communists in Korea and Vietnam. I *like* them. I admire them. I'm proud of them.
I *like* pretty nearly all the men who post here at jihadwatch: tough soldiers like Kaffir Kanuck, old soldiers like Davegreybeard, academics and scientists like Wellington and Eastview, and ordinary blokes.
And I am most heartily thankful for all those tough blokes who stood their ground in past centuries and fought like lions at places like Malta and Vienna, to ensure that most of western Europe, at least, remained free of the devouring hordes of the Ummah; men whose fierceness in battle meant that my female ancestors would *not* be stuffed into a black sack, locked up in purdah, or forced to put up with a bunch of co-wives.
A toast to the gentlemen, past and present.
Drat. I do sometimes miss the IntenseDebate 'edit' function.
Third last paragraph, on second thoughts, needs polishing a bit. Here's the rewritten version.
"I *like* pretty nearly all the men who post here at jihadwatch: tough soldiers like Kaffir Kanuck, old soldiers like Davegreybeard, academics and scientists like Wellington and Eastview, yourself of course, and so many others, too many to list (though I must give a special mention to duhswami's sense of humour, and AlaskanInfidel's lively portraits of life as a pest exterminator and dog rescuer in the wilds of Alaska...)."