Pakistan's efforts to wrest its frontier provinces from jihadist control may be compared to a child who is trying to get out of cleaning his or her room by doing as half-hearted a job as possible: Put a few things away; how about now? No? Straighten up a few more things; now? No? And the reluctant participant actually starts to look serious for a while, but nonetheless keeps his or her eye out for that magic milestone of progress known as "good enough for now."
Of course, the analogy breaks down where the hypothetical youngster probably isn't crafty enough to keep demanding more resources, purportedly for the task at hand, but not entirely. "Pakistan under pressure after NY car bomb," by Chris Brummitt for the Associated Press, May 10:
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - U.S. claims that the Pakistani Taliban were behind last week's failed car bombing in Times Square add pressure on Pakistan's government to attack the militant sanctuary of North Waziristan close to the Afghan border, but few expect its stretched army to rush into any operation there.
New calls from Washington for the army to move into North Waziristan could backfire because they would create the impression the force was acting on the orders of America -- a perception that would undercut the public support needed for such an operation to be successful.
Aside from U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton's warning over the weekend of "severe consequences" if an attack on U.S. soil is traced back to Pakistan, most U.S. officials have been careful not to criticize Pakistan in their public comments since Pakistan-American Faisal Shahzad was arrested soon after the terror attempt in New York.
America is limited in what it can do to tackle the threat coming from Pakistan's tribal regions.
It is seen as highly unlikely that nuclear-armed Pakistan would ever allow American troops to operate there, meaning Washington must try to work through the Pakistani army, which has received billions of dollars in U.S. aid since 2001.
The Pakistani Taliban, which have previously not conducted attacks on U.S. soil, have been the target of several Pakistani army offensives over the last two years and been battered by scores of American missile strikes. They are allied to al-Qaida, which has also found sanctuary in the northwest, and the Afghan Taliban just across the border.
A suspected U.S. missile strike early Tuesday killed at least three people in the Doga area of North Waziristan, two intelligence officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.
The identities of those killed were not immediately known.
Pakistan officially protests the strikes on its territory as violations of its sovereignty, but it is believed to aid them. The U.S. rarely discusses the unmanned-drone-fired strikes, which are part of a covert CIA program.
The army has not moved into North Waziristan, in part because powerful insurgent commanders there have generally not attacked targets in Pakistan. In recent months, however, fleeing fighters and commanders from the Pakistani Taliban -- which have launched scores of bloody suicide attacks around the country since 2007 -- have moved there.
Even before the failed Times Square bombing, many security analysts had said that the army would need to move into at least some areas of the region if it wanted to deal a decisive blow against militancy in the country.
The army has said it cannot spare the troops for a full-scale offensive this year and needs to consolidate gains elsewhere against militants, including in neighboring South Waziristan. It says it is carrying out small-scale, targeted missions in the north against insurgents, but Associated Press reporters who have visited recently say it is under militant control....
Pigman was here.....
Brietbart claims Mullah Omar was captured over a week ago....
http://biggovernment.com/bthor/2010/05/10/exclusive-mullah-omar-captured/
Pakistan under pressure!! Haven't we heard it before? Actually it is USA under pressure. It is too late for USA to admit before its citizens and the rest of the world that it has been taken for a ride by Pakistan. It will require guts to admit that US Taxpayers' money was being used to finance Jihad, and change the game. We cannot expect it from Obama. In fact we could not expect it from a Bush or a Regan! All US can do is to enhance the aid to Pakistan. Just wait and watch.
Article - America is limited in what it can do to tackle the threat coming from Pakistan's tribal regions.
And this truth has been known by one and all. Even our Jawans struggle there and it's our yard. We have been asking for the tranfer of drone technology to Pakistan so that we can help you here and there with that.
Article - "Pakistan under pressure". This statement is incorrect - it is us the citizenary of our country who are and feel the real pressure.
Our politicans have to deflect and not deliver, Hillary has to work her gums and her considerable hips.
The terrorists melt, go and hide or go home - leaving us to take the heat and suffer the possible retribution that American Joe throws every so often.
You than follow this by placating the generals by giving them more money - your policy is laughable if it wasn't real.
After WWII America sough to spread democracy around the world using 3 instruments:
1) Money.
2) Political will.
3) American Military Forces.
And you have been successful closer to home on peoples who do not have strong self confidence and weak cultures. The South American continent comes to mind here in particular. Those are weak people who bend and dance to American music.
Where American Joe has been unsuccessful is where countries have been blessed by God SWT.
We do not have a lot of money - so you keep giving more.
Islam (as you people know) is a religion but also has a strong political undercurrent with it's own laws. American Joe has not been able to exercise it political will on us and therefore can Never be successful.
The reason for is is not Islam - but the fact that your genorisity does not filter down to the people. Until this changes Hilary's gums must keep going - warning us and asking your own people to remain vigilant.
Your own people then blame the whole of Pakistan i.e. us, but the generals and the militants are too busy counting your money to notice.
Rather than giving the generals money, why not concentrate on the citizens of Pakistan. Don't give money, but pick common citizens (say 10,000/year) to come to Joe America for work, education, marrige and live.
THAT is how you will win the people's favour.
Ali is right. No American aid should be given to any Islamic country. Let them simmer in their own stew and destroy themselves under the tenants of their prophet and the barbarism thus produced. The problem is part of the tenants of the religion is to spread the disease until it infects all of mankind and not just the population that bows before it. So was the process of the Nazis and the only cure for the disease is for good men to stand up and surgically remove it from the soul of human civilisation and not to partner, appease or enrich the foot soldiers of the ideology no matter what guise they operate under.
Do you know what I see coming?
I see "the military decides its an unwinnable war and they cannot shoot their fellow jihadists and over throw the government in a coup d'etat and replaces it with a Taliban government. Then we have a Taliban in control of the nukes and all-out nuclear war with Iran, N. Korea and China all working together against, first Israel, and then Europe, and then the U.S.
Bosch, Glad to know that the pigman is rooting out the problem of jihad.
Pigman for POTUS!!!
'Rather than giving the generals money, why not concentrate on the citizens of Pakistan. Don't give money, but pick common citizens (say 10,000/year) to come to Joe America for work, education, marrige and live."
That idea sounds suspicously like an avenue to bring more of the same threat to America.
"Islam (as you people know) is a religion but also has a strong political undercurrent with it's own laws. American Joe has not been able to exercise it political will on us and therefore can Never be successful."
IMO that is because Islam, the ways of Mohammad and the Koran has be programed into the minds of Muslims from the day of their birth and the only way to truly combat the hatred for the kuffar is to change the way Islam is taught to the youth from the very start of their lives. This is an incredible task that any military campaign can never acheive. The indoctrination of Islam has been an ongoing 14 century process and cannot be undone in a single generation much less overnight.
"The reason for is is not Islam -"
I completely reject this statement. As stated above it is Islam and the continued indoctrination (brainwashing) that exists in the madrassa's of the region.
The saddest thing about this whole campaign in the fight against terror is that American leadrership cannot or will not adnmit the truth, whether they beleive it or not I do not know. By admitting the truth that we are in fight against an ideology would be to admit that for the last 10 years we were wrong and we all know how politicians feel about admitting they were wrong.
The Pakistani army has attacked, belatedly and not enthusiastically, targets in South Waziristan because the various "insurgents" or terrorist groups -- Taliban, etc. -- there are dangerous to the Pakistani order, to the generals and zamindars. They do not attack targets in North Waziristan because the various "insurgents" or terrorist groups -- Al Qaeda, Pakistani Taliban, Lashkar-e-Toiba, and a dozen others -- are not making Pakistanis, but rather Infidels, their target. This is something the Pakistanis care as little about as the Saudis do about those in their own midst who prepare attacks against Infidels (while "re-educating" some who mistakenly regard the Al-Saud as Infidels themselves).
Why would the Pakistanis, military or civilian, care one whit if the targets are Americans or Indians or other non-Muslims? Who would expect that of them? Only an American government that keeps refusing to understand minds on Islam.
Not. holding. my. breath.
I hope that there are sensible people in the security establishments of both India and the USA who are drawing up plans to take out Pakistan's nukes if things really get out hand (say, terror strikes in the heart of USA or a repeat of Mumbai attack).
One of our non - dhimmi, courageous leaders - LK Advani, after visiting USA when he was Home Minister of India, said something to this effect: I hope it does not take another 9/11 for the USA to understand where the real security threat lies and to act on that threat.
All indications are, that IS what (most unfortunately) it will take the USA to take the right action.
And that right action, look at it whichever way you want, is to strip Pakistan of it's nuclear arsenal and to debiliate it in respect of owning nuclear weapons again. Once that is done, there will be a permanent sword on their heads (India attacking and giving them a drubbing in a conventional war) and all the terror problems will disappear.
Sanjay - Strip Pakistan of it's nuclear arsenal and debiliate it in respect of owning nuclear weapons again.
Once that is done, there will be a permanent sword on their heads (India attacking and giving them a drubbing in a conventional war) and all the terror problems will disappear.
Sanjay, I told the people on this site that India does not want peace with Pakistan. India (as you put it) wants a permanent (Indian) sword on Pakistani heads.
Ofcoure India could never (even try) disarm the Pak nucleur deterent- why do you think Joe America would be any more successful.
India could not take any action on the Mumbai atrocity as it could not prove to Pakistan beyond doubt that we were responsible (although the rest of the world didn't even need proof).
What stopped all out war was our deterrent (and probabaly some American intervention).
- else many thousands of Indians could have died ( and probably a few hundred Pakistani Jawans).
Sanjay, I don't think that America is much worried about causalties in our region provided they are not American.
Why do you rely so much on them? Is it becuase you know that there are sons of Mugals in Pakistan who ruled over India for so long and you want America to ensure it does not happen again?
It is easy to answer you, Ali.
But it is no use. Like a usual Muslim, you will not understand.
There is no peace right now. Terror attacks take place with impunity.
Once the existential threat to terrorists is real (like an Indian sword hanging over the head of the terrorist state), the attacks will stop and real peace will come.
We can do it ourselves, but we would prefer American help because special ops capabilities of this kind in such a risky situation should be top class.
Moghuls ruled India ? And you Pakistanis are sons of those Moghuls ? Why don't try finding out who was the last Indian ruler at your city when the British took power. Chances are you will find someone with a turban, a beard and an iron ring on the wrist and your "moghul" ancestors lived in terror of those men.
Sanjay
Sanjay - Why don't try finding out who was the last Indian ruler at your city when the British took power. Chances are you will find someone with a turban, a beard and an iron ring on the wrist and your "moghul" ancestors lived in terror of those men.
Ah - you are talking about the Sikhs. Certainly they were and are a fine people and their ruler Maharaja Ranjit Singh is still thought about fondly in Lahore where he was born.
They got respect through bravery and fairness and in they have done very well albiet being a minority.
The shame for India though is that the MAJORITY should have done something - rather than leaving it all to a minority martial race.
What were you Majority Hindus doing whilst the Sikhs were laying down their lives on your behalf? For me this is a fundamentally important question for it defines what you are about!
Don't know - well let me tell you.
Serving the muslims, serving the Sikhs and serving the British and serving the Portugese, and serving the French in Pondicherry - do you need me to continue?
This is the real reason why you need American help isn't it
- come on - don't beat about the bush - hindus need to grow some but simply have not been able to do so over the centuries. There is simply no hope for India whilst Hindus are the majority there.
Pigman was here.....
.................
Excellent, Bosch. I know we're all waiting with bated breath for the first issue of The Infidel!
You need to know the history of Sikhism, especially how it developed.
You are a sick man like your brethren.
Once again, it is easy to reply you but I have replied your ilk a hundred times and it gets nowhere because you are better at racial or religious abuse rather than logic, maybe because Islam has killed all your reasoning faculties.
In fact I can bet that you have nightmares about surrender to Hindu India that you hate and, shorn of the ability to do anything to harm us, either gloat in the "success" of terror attacks or come to websites and write comments like these to release that hatred.
Ah, and I was forgetting - right now, it is Pakistan, "sons" of "brave moghuls", that is serving the Americans, not India. We don't have to suffer the indignity of renting out our army and making our soldiers die for the dollars handed out by another country that we hate !
Sanjay
We don't have to suffer the indignity of renting out our army and making our soldiers die for the dollars handed out by another country that we hate !
Sanjay
That's a good line...short, sweet and to the point...
A Pakistani poster above writes, somewhat confusingly and confusedly:
"And you have been successful closer to home on peoples who do not have strong self confidence and weak cultures. The South American continent comes to mind here in particular. Those are weak people who bend and dance to American music.
Where American Joe has been unsuccessful is where countries have been blessed by God SWT.
We do not have a lot of money - so you keep giving more.
Islam (as you people know) is a religion but also has a strong political undercurrent with it's own laws. American Joe has not been able to exercise it political will on us and therefore can Never be successful.
The reason for is is not Islam - but the fact that your genorisity does not filter down to the people. Until this changes Hilary's gums must keep going - warning us and asking your own people to remain vigilant.
Your own people then blame the whole of Pakistan i.e. us, but the generals and the militants are too busy counting your money to notice.
Rather than giving the generals money, why not concentrate on the citizens of Pakistan. Don't give money, but pick common citizens (say 10,000/year) to come to Joe America for work, education, marrige and live."
He understands, and admits, that American aid to win hearts and minds when those hearts and minds are Muslim, can never work. But then he suggests that, after all, there is one way to win those hearts and minds, not of the rulers, but of ordinary Pakistanis, and that way, amazingly, includes inviting Pakistanis to come live in our countries. But they already here, and many of them quite clearly have not been won over, in hearts and minds, and cannot be, because of the ideology of Islam. The lesson to be learned is: don't invite them in, don't allow them in, stop all aid to Pakistan, let it sink into its own squalor, and let it be made known that we in the West understand that the reasons for the many failures -- political, economic, social, intellectual, and moral -- of Muslim states and societies, including Pakistan, are due to Islam itself.
Ataturk understood this. There are some glimmers, here and there, at the edges, of some understanding by a very few Muslims today. But we don't have to wait for them, for we are not tied down mentally or in other ways by Islam. We are free to recognize this truth, and to state it to others. And to allow Muslims to eavesdrop, and being to ponder the matter for themselves.
Aadeesh Ali wrote, among other crap:
After WWII America sough to spread democracy around the world...you have been successful closer to home on peoples who do not have strong self confidence and weak cultures...
Where American Joe has been unsuccessful is where countries have been blessed by God SWT.
.....................
First he tells us that Muslims don't accept democracy, because they are not "weak". Then he thanks Allah for having "blessed" them with tyrannies.
He goes on to further brag about how Muslims will never give up their barbaric, undemocratic ways.
But much as he likes to tout Muslims' supposed strength, he cannot help but throw in a demand for Jizya along with his defiance:
We do not have a lot of money - so you keep giving more.
Islam (as you people know) is a religion but also has a strong political undercurrent with it's own laws. American Joe has not been able to exercise it political will on us and therefore can Never be successful.
The reason for is is not Islam - but the fact that your genorisity (sic) does not filter down to the people. Until this changes Hilary's gums must keep going - warning us and asking your own people to remain vigilant.
Your own people then blame the whole of Pakistan i.e. us, but the generals and the militants are too busy counting your money to notice.
Rather than giving the generals money, why not concentrate on the citizens of Pakistan. Don't give money, but pick common citizens (say 10,000/year) to come to Joe America for work, education, marrige and live.
THAT is how you will win the people's favour.
.....................
So, let's see—Muslims don't believe in democracy, will never accept it, are proud to be undemocratic, blah blah blah—but we should not only give them more and more Jizya, but *invite hordes of these barbarians to "Joe America"* where they can practice Jihad terrorism, polygamy, forced marriage, child marriage, "honor killings", crime Jihad, and pressure us to impose Shari'ah...let's see, did I leave anything out?
We will have imported and funded a hostile, alien cohort into our midst—but, hey, we will have won "the people's favour"—do I have that right?
I see Hugh and I made essentially the same point...
Thanks to duh_swami.
Guys, I strongly suspect this Ali is none other than Wenti. He is displaying an identical mindset.
The best way, IMO, to handle this kind is:
1. Let them post unless they really start using foul language, e.g. four letter words. If they are barred, they will crow to the world that the believers in freedom of speech do not observe their own principles.
2. We should respond to them. Not refuse to take cognizance of their existence. Because then, we will also be guilty of de - humanizing them, like they have done to themselves.
3. Make our response as dignified and to the point as possible.
4. Stop responding after a point. After all, once we have made our points, there is no sense in simply dragging the discussion. Ignoring them after a certain time would be the right thing.
Sanjay
@Aadeesh - "Serving the muslims, serving the Sikhs and serving the British and serving the Portugese, and serving the French in Pondicherry - do you need me to continue?"
The "serving the Sikhs" insert in your list is invalid. Nobody served the Sikhs, Sikhs serve the nation. Sikhs Maharajas NEVER discriminated against subjects. Always remember that Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists and Jains are blood brothers and all of India/Bharat belongs to us collectively - including those areas which are currently under illegal occupation by franchisers of Islam.
The other entities in the list will remind us of the deepest depths a civilized people had descended to.
Running, tripping and falling down, getting up to run again IS THE CHAKRA OF LIFE. Case in point - Greece - once the fountainhead of modern thought has nothing much to offer to today's world; does today's Italy remind you of the mighty Romans ? All nations/civilizations go through this.
So, being a Muslim, you need to decide whether your time to be part of the human experience "will come" or "has already gone by". Gloating about an imaginary past ain't-gonna-do-you-no-good.
Parting shot - it was the Sikhs who put the first nails in the coffin of Islamic rule in India/Bharat.
"Rather than giving the generals money, why not concentrate on the citizens of Pakistan. Don't give money, but pick common citizens (say 10,000/year) to come to Joe America for work, education, marrige and live. THAT is how you will win the people's favour."
I know everyone is talking about the Pakistani (US citizen) TimesSquare bomber - today did you read about another one of your countrymen in Chile -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8676266.stm
A Pakistani man is being questioned after he tested positive for explosives while entering the US embassy in Chile. .........
10,000 Paki to the US per year. No thanks. However, -10,000 Pakies per year will be a very attractive suggestion.
Its been said so many times but still bears repeating. "If you cannot NAME who you are fighting how can you possibly engage and DEFEAT them and how will you know when you have'.
You cant declare a VICTORY over an UNNAMED foe. But just imagine if you did it would have to be in Obambi/Holder DEM moonbat speak "The USA has been victorious and will hold a Victory Parade to celebrate the defeat of the irrational Obambi and Bush haters, the Debt dissatisfied, the Pakistan Drone worriers, the self defining Racially abused, the unhappy LBGT'ers, the Jews **, the Tea Party radicals, members of jealous countries, angry White middle class men *, the poor downtrodden Illegal Immigrants and last but by no means least the MISUNDERSTANDERS of a CULT we cant mention and other moonbats in general"
In Obambi/Holder la la DEM land speak off course its not RACIST to be anti WHITE * and the JEWS are allowed to be vilified openly with no fear of censure **.
Hugh is informing and serving us well.
There seems to be at least a triangle; Al-Qaida + the 2 Talibans firmly at war with America. And at best the Pakistani army, so powerful in Pakistan, in between. Because of huge sums of money now fighting a civil war with the Islamists in Waziristan, but allowing them to stay in business against the Americans.
What a delusional policy the USA is following it seems to me. Still ignorant of or ignoring the true anti-democratic nature of Islam and allying itself with decidedly hostile people (at least in big part), alienating potential warm friends, the Indians (the Asian Indians). And America is supposed to fight for democracy. And if it fights for ulterior motives, well, then these would be quickly pointed out by it's enemies.
In the past, when fighting the equally dictatorial system of Communism, which was very powerful, it may have made sense to let the enemies of USA's enemies be their friends, even although these new friends were very anti-democratic, very anti-women-rights. But why still now?
I can only think because of the nukes. But what, are the Pakistani generals blackmailing the US with them? Like in: "Give us the money or Al-Qaida gets the nukes?!"
That might happen anyway. And a terrorist organisation won't seem to be much susceptible to MAD, Mutually Assured Destruction.
But it might be considered that "Islam will be considered guilty until proven innocent" when a "mysterious organisation" explodes nukes in Democratic nations.
Or else the demise of most of Democracy mighy be considered, but is that the most noble course of action? For the long term?