"They can neither eliminate the mujahideen nor jihad, nor they can harm Islam."
Can't harm Islam? Not even with cartoons? "Pakistani Taliban say America will 'burn'," from Reuters, May 14:
(Reuters) - Pakistani Taliban militants have warned America that it will soon "burn" while calling for Pakistan's rulers to be overthrown for following "America's agenda".
The United States is convinced Pakistani Taliban militants allied with al Qaeda and operating out of northwestern Pakistani border regions were behind an attempted car-bomb attack in New York's Times Square on May 1.
The Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility for the attempted bombing. If confirmed, it would be the first time their members were involved in an attempted attack in the West.
A Pakistani Taliban spokesman, in a video message obtained by Reuters, repeated a claim of responsibility, saying:
"The movement proved what America could not have even imagined ... It was just an explosive-laden vehicle which did not explode.
"But it (America) will see, all imperialist forces will see that it will explode also and America will also burn," said the spokesman, Azim Tariq, sitting cross-legged on the ground in front of a rock face and speaking in Urdu.
America's allies would meet the same fate, he said.
"They can neither eliminate the mujahideen nor jihad, nor they can harm Islam," he said, referring to Muslim holy warriors and holy war.
"Instead, they will have to die themselves, they will be burned themselves, they will have to dig their own graves," said the spokesman, sporting a long black beard and turban.
Pakistan has been battling its homegrown Taliban, who are allied with the Afghan Taliban, and who have been accused of numerous suicide bombings killing hundreds of people across the nuclear-armed country.
But Tariq denied responsibility for bombings in public places, saying authorities wanted to malign the militants with such attacks.
Tariq spoke of fighting in various places in Pakistan saying his men were holding their own and the security forces, which he said were being paid with U.S. aid money, were suffering significant losses.
"They are being defeated," he said.
Tariq did not refer specifically to any attacks abroad, but said mujahideen "wherever they were, in any part of the world" were supporting each other.
Analysts have long doubted the Pakistani Taliban, operating out of remote mountains along the Afghan border, had the sophistication to plan and execute a bomb attack in a Western country on their own.
They can, however, support and train people who are able to travel to the West and carry out attacks. Tariq said the Pakistani people were being sacrificed for the sake of the United States by their own government, which he called un-Islamic.
"Now is a time to remove them from power as soon as possible. All their policies are anti-Islam, anti-people," he said.
"Jihad will continue as long as the ruling coterie and the unholy army continue to follow the American agenda," he said....
"Instead, they will have to die themselves, they will be burned themselves, they will have to dig their own graves,"
++++++++++++++
And obama and his coterie still believe islam is a religion of peace.
What will it take to wake them up from their self-imposed slumber of ignorance?
Bring it, dirt-bags.
If you think we're not looking for you a/o won't give our lives to crush you and all your stinky jihadi brothers and sisters, you've got a rude awakening waiting here.
Come and get it.
Nothing but a feeble rant. Every dog has his day. And the day is approaching when that GBU-12 or aptly named AGM-114 'Hellfire' come crashing through the roof.
Inshallah.
The people who can harm Islam the most, if we give them free rein, are Muslims themselves. The American government keeps trying, and trying, and trying, and trying, to make over Muslim polities without daring to examine what effect Islam itself has on the peoples and polities whom we are attempting, so vainly, at such great expense, to help. We have squandered vast sums in Iraq. We are preparing to squander even more in Afghanistan and Pakistan. But the results will be dismal, and we will waste time, and money that might be applied elsewhere, and in our mad emphasis on terrorism we will continue to ignore all the other, much more effective instruments of Jihad, and will fail to recognize that what happens in Iraq or Afghanistan hardly matters to us, but what happens in Western Europe, or Israel, matters very much. No Muslim victories over Infidels can be allowed, real or simply perceived, becasue they will whet, not sate, Muslim appetites. What happens within Muslim countries is largely irrelevant, though the spectacle of Muslims no longer being rescued by the largesse of outside Infidels, and forced to confront their own failures, political, economic, social, intellectual, and moral, and the further spectacle of Muslims fighting other Muslims, because of ethnic, sectarian, and economic fissures that the West has not only had nothing to do with, but has done everything -- as in Iraq -- to discourage, will help to divide and demoralize the Camp of Islam.
And that, from our point of view, the point of view of the world's Infidels, is a good thing.
Let the Muslims in Dar al-Islam alone, have as little to do with them as possible, and work to ensure that the Muslim presence in the West is as small as possible, so that those who use the Money Weapon, propaganda, campaigns of Da'wa, and demographic conquest, as instruments of Jihad -- that is the struggle to remove all obstacles to the spread and then the dominance of Islam -- are checked, and forced to remain within their own lands, lands made wretched, even in those places where because of an accident of geology trillions of dollars have been received, because of Islam itself.
We would not have invited into our countries "refugees" from lands where the Nazis, or the Communists, ruled, not if they brought with them, instead of a desire to alert those who had given them refuge to the real nature and threat of those who worked to promote the ideology, and the worldly power, of Nazism and Communism. But those who flee the wretchedness of Muslim countries -- and so many young Muslims can't wait to get out, but they also have no understanding of what it is that causes their own countries to be places from which they wish to flee. Instead, they bring Islam with them, and attempt, in aggressive fashion, to try to change the societies that have offered them refuge, to make them more, not less, open to slow conquest from within by the forces of Islam.
This is a preposterous situation, and the dereliction of duty, out of ignorance, or stupidity, or a false "realism," or an acceptance of the Idols of the Age (about Diversity and Tolerance, on whose altars there have been burnt offerings, sacrifices, not of traditional incense but rather of common sense), will not by future historians be forgotten. If, of course, there are any future historians. The way things are going in this unappetizing world, one hardly knows -- do one?
I don't know why Americans should worry about this long arm of the Taliban stuff...Rasool Obama will save us...Rasool knows a lot about the Taliban, according to Dr Manning, whose Obama trial in NY starts today, Rasool was a CIA agent dealing with Afghanistan Taliban...I'm not sure about this trial, but what I am sure of is that it's historic, in that no one has done this before...We will see what we will see...
Yes, Hugh, the biggest threat to Islam are Islamists. But their real message is never properly delivered.
If the pathetic media in the U.S. were doing its job, Jihad Watch might be obsolete.
If just ONE article posted here were carried by the mainstream media every day, you'd see a nation of people lathered up like a Paki mosque following Friday prayers.
If.
Pakistani Taliban: America will "burn" ...
"The LORD detests men of perverse heart; but he delights in those whose ways are blameless." -- Proverbs 11:20
"They can neither eliminate the mujahideen nor jihad, nor they can harm Islam," he said, referring to Muslim holy warriors and holy war.
.......................
But I thought "Jihad" just referred to fighting for "social justice"—you know, like a "Jihad against grade disparity" or a "Jihad against polluting in low-income neighborhoods". sarc/off
More:
"Jihad will continue as long as the ruling coterie and the unholy army continue to follow the American agenda," he said....
.......................
What crap. Jihad had cast its baleful shadow over a huge swath of the world for *over a millenium* before America was even founded. Right now, we represent Infidels at their most confident and influential, but Muslims could just as easily rant about "Christendom" or "Rome" as "America"—and indeed, have long done so.
More:
"But it (America) will see, all imperialist forces will see that it will explode also and America will also burn," said the spokesman, Azim Tariq, sitting cross-legged on the ground in front of a rock face and speaking in Urdu.
.......................
Aren't you sick to death of having to pay the least attention to what some vicious moron "sitting cross-legged on the ground in front of a rock face" in some Islamic hell-hole has to say? I know I am.
"Instead, they will have to die themselves, they will be burned themselves, they will have to dig their own graves," said the spokesman, sporting a long black beard and turban.
You see, this is why Islam is not all that popular. Their version of the afterlife involves way too much work.
I've always pictured heaven as sunset on a beach, comfy chair, cool beverage.........
All that dying, burning and digging - way too much physical work.
Our noble leaders' oft repeated "religion of peace" mantra is not working.
They hope if mantra is repeated often enough, it will have a magical effect on Islam, and actually make it peaceful. But so far it failed. It certainly failed the jihadist Taliban, and failed the sharia jihad in Aceh, and failed state jihad in Somalia, or Thailand, or Philippines, or Gaza, or... as it failed all the other 'religion of peace' attacks since 911.
Maybe if they say the mantra louder, screaming it with that same full shrill "allah akhbar!" the mantra will finally set in? Louder... louder... they can't hear you all the way in Aceh... All together now... "the religion of...?"
These primitive idiots sure think a lot of themselves. They have no idea what they would face, if the might of the free world was allied against them.
With the sole aim of annoying every Muslim who reads this: Happy birthday, Israel!
And if anybody's gonna burn, it'll be those foolish enough to attack Israel. But I guess the Medina Mafia will never learn.
America will burn... Korans.
When the people finally read the psychopathic silliness within.
Islam needs to be contained.
So that it can eviscerate itself.
No Shi'ite, that will be a Sunni day.
The Pakistani Taliban spokesman "sporting a long black beard and turban."
Reuters notices the man does have a sense of fashion.
"America will burn..."
Dr Mobamad would like to prescribe some penicillin for that burn.
But first, the Q-tip. Stop struggling...
"America will burn... Korans."
lol! ...hear, hear :)
As funny as your comment is -- they should be burned, since the Koran is nothing more than a manual 4 murder.
Firsly let me start by saying that Mr. Robert's speech is well balanced ,well analysed , and inquisitively had strucked the heart of the matter.
however, after i had read many comments posted in regards to Mr. spencer's speech espacially Hugh's comments which reflects amazingly his deep knowledge in this particular topic i would like to point out some issues wich are or may be subject to debate . Needless to say in this regard that i might present many angles in regards to one topic or other in order to substantiate any given point of view to be analysed from dirrerent perspectives . In this regard i would like to highlight some points and then ask Mr. hugh some open ended questions and closed( yes or no) questions to bear in mind.
1- I presumaly assumed that you have read Daniel Ali and Mr. Robert spencer's book '' Inside Islam : a guide for Catholics 100 questions and answers". In this regard , as i said if you have read this book you could have find arguably that some parts of Mr. Robert's speech had to a certain degree been discussed in this book . for example Question 81:''how have Muslims responded to this call of Jihad over the centuries''? Now, no need to elaborate or cite here the whole answered paragraph, anyhow i would like to quote the last section :'' after the defeat in Vienna , the Jihads vanished into historical memory. The european powers grew to be far stronger than the increasingly decrepit ottoman empire, until finally they were able to colonize larger portions of what had been ottoman domains . The poverty and cultural and technological inferiority of the house of Islam made Jihad impossible .But the thelogy of Gihad was set aside only in practice, not in theory. This theology has never been repudiated by any significant muslim sect.(p.117-118)''
what interests me here as point of discussion is the last sentence in this paragraph.and i would like to question you and Mr Robert spencer : in your opinion is there any possibility in the near future that this theology might be repudiated or even examined by any scholar or any well known moderate muslim or even a moderate one ? and if you believe that there is such possibility or even some basis ground in it do you believe that a politically and as well as non /semi or even governmental collaboration between the western democratic assosiations and these scholars should exist in the first start to define and counter Jihad ? and if yes why such a commitee did not exist so far yet ? bearing in mind that good intention and this hopeful believe should exist between diffreent parties regardless of what their religion is and i strongly believe that such a mutual teamwork must exist in order to habe a cummon base ground to fight Jihad and i sincerly urge you if you can convey this potential strategy to Mr. Robert and in this regard i also solemnly believe that Mr. robert will welcome such strategy .
in this matter , using some quran verses as out of context by the jihadist( 9:29) is the most devastating threat and no need to elaborate more and that's why we need also a political agneda from within the muslim arab world and share with the west that this jihad ideology should be repudiated theologically to strengthen moving heaven and earth to counterfight it in all means possible( ideological, practical , cultural, ect..) bearing in mind that you have to believe that no all muslims are enemies of the west neither they are terrorists ( as mentioned by one of the Commentators who posted hi sopinion in this matter) in which Mr. Robert had repeatedly said . Curiuously enough, i tend to believe majority of the muslims espacially the youth and who are not pious don't even read the quran intensivelyand if they did only for knowlefge and reciting some passages in matter of spiritual gaining.
2- you have to bear in mind on one hand the economic situations in the some of arab world particularly sudan , egypt and saudi Arabia whrein the poverty is increasing simultaneously in which these people due to the misgivings of their situation might be more candidates to jihad ideology not only because they are poor and could be easily motivated by money and spiritual context , not only the psychological effect the recruiters might invoke and i can say brain washing methodology by using many verses in Quran and the reward and here the straw that stroke the camel 's back is using the verses that talk about heaven as a reward for those who'll do jihad, and on the other hand the increasing illiteracy rate wich
corresponds with poverty. Moreover as i commented before on jihadwatch i totally blame arab governments's tyranny and dictatorship( except Lebanon) espacially Syria and Saudi Arabia not to mention Egypt for their tyranny and threfore the absence of any democratic mouvement except some domonstrations every now and then in egypt which doesn not have any serious setback .
3-In one of your points and plz correct me if i'm wrong did you elaborate on describing the moderate muslims from ethnic perspective( kurds , Barbar) and if so are you denying the fact that the arab moderates don't even exist whether in the arab world or outside of its realm?
4- Let me go back to Robert spencer & daniel Ali's book : '' Inside Islam : a guide for Catholics 100 questions and answers" question 82 page 118:'' doesn't the bible ( espacially the old testament)contain violence similar to islam 's command of Jihad? and here in this context in order to make my point clear i have to cite the first part of the answered paragraph and then i'll highlight the lines that correspond with our discussion:
'' Yes and no. the old testament contains a greate deal of violence , much of it committed by men sush as Joshua, who are depicted as heroes. However, the jewish and christian traditions long ago developed historical understandings of God's word; this allowed them to see the priciples embodied in the old testament's violent passages as applicable for one time and place but not universally. The only theological mechanism that approximates this for muslims is, as we have seen, the abrogation theory , but this approach is actually used to support the Koran's violent passages.''
here i would to highlight two lines the first one is this:'' However, the jewish and christian traditions long ago developed historical understandings of God's word; this allowed them to see the priciples embodied in the old testament's violent passages as applicable for one time and place but not unicersally"
now in this sentence what conclusions can we draw here ? don't you agree that part and parcelof solution to this jihad problem is that muslims from within should should emulate what the jewish and christians did before and if so why can this be applied in regards to american/ europian perspective? of course having taking for granted that this was not done yet within the islam communities in Europe neither in the arab world unnless there are measure taking in the process.
the second line i would like to highlight is this :''The only theological mechanism that approximates this for muslims is, as we have seen, the abrogation theory , but this approach is actually used to support the Koran's violent passages''.
again in this sentence what conclusions can we draw here : the vise versa i mean to put midly: can muslims let abrogation be used to or rather use it to support the koran's peaceful passages and again like the jewish and christians to develop historical understandings of God's word and ultimately allow them to see the priciples embodied in the old testament's violent passages as applicable for one time and place but not unicersally in regards to the Quranic violent passages .
5- you named many books regarding this topic and you classified the authors as only moderate because they left islam( correct me if i am wrong please) however i will name for you a few books and i need you feedback if you had read them in advance:
A-Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan and Bin Laden by steve coll
B- Blowback by chalmers jhonson
c- Devil's Game: How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam by Robert Dreyfuss
however, in regards of what you said here i am sorry to disappoint you Mr. Hugh that dar islam or muslums can not be left alone because of the oil reserve . however, let's play your game and let the arab world precisely to be left alone do you think that this gonna stop gihadists or did you forget the taliban/Pakistan and their involvbement in time square. no i think USA with the help of Moderates muslims or whatever people from differents sects and religions and from all the freethiking world can counterfight Jihad mean USA has the means to stop this madeness called islamic jihad and not europe sorry to tell you this espacially that the threat is ideological rather than physical .
LOL !! I like that.
[sniff - sniff]
Do I smell a (pseudo intelligent) TROLL??
لن استسلم
D
well i think if we consult Mr. Sigmund Freud R.I.P he will agree that there is psycholgal interference with those gihadists and one of thse peudo-maniac oriented problem that is a propability that they are virgins and want to go to heaven by any means to have sex with the 72 virgins in paradise espacially that they could not do it on this earth and guess what! the infidel's blood is needed for the journey!
Yes, pseudo being the operative adjective. And (s)he's a misunderstander of the Bible as well.
"Instead, they will have to die themselves, they will be burned themselves, they will have to dig their own graves," said the spokesman,"
Taliban and Al Qaida may want to reconsider that course of action. In place in America, Europe, India and everywhere there now are websites and media that are closely watching sayings and acts of Muslims. They lie in wait for more "Ammunition" for their cause.
When Muslims keep quiet, ignorance and PCMC-attitudes about Islam abound in the West and appeasement-politicians are in charge. Meanwhile the Muslim presence and percentage in Western countries and India is much on the rise. Time is on the Muslims side, it seems.
But when "America Burns", when "Americans and allies have to dig their own graves" Islam will be recognized for what it is by enough voters to usher into power confrontation-politicians.
Muslims should remember what the Japanese general mused right after Pearl Harbor, when he was told by a subordinate that Japan had won a great victory. The Japanese general replied: "I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant".
Yeah, and that giant thoroughly trounced Japan! I think Jihad Watch, Faith Freedom International and many other Islam-critical monitoring sites and media can act as a deterrent!
I fail to see how anyone can provide a different perspective..
It is what it is. The problem isn't "extremists" the problem is Islam itself. Islam fuels the extremists to act on it's precepts and fuels the moderates to agree with the actions of the extremists because they are being TRUE to Islam. Lying to the kuffar about this simple truth is just another part of the jihad.
I read all the points you brought up and it would appear that you do not understand the theology of Islam, or Judeo Christian teachings.
Your first question touched upon the idea that Islam can somehow be questioned or examined enough to have the idea of jihad removed from it's teachings. And also that as we've heard ad nauseam, the quran verse (9:29)is being taken out of context.
This is simply never going to happen. Have you not seen the reaction of Muslims to those who have questioned or critized any part of Islam? The results have been deadly.
To reform Islam would require a direct change to the text of the quran. Remove the jihad passages and there won't be much of a book left to recite.
What you propose won't happen simply because Islam isn't open to it. It's purpose is to conquer...Until all religion is for Allah..
2. Poverty is no excuse for terrorism. Being poor doesn't justify anyone self detonating in crowds full of women and children, at bus stops, restaurants, schools, etc.
There seem to be PLENTY of Muslims who have made it to the West where they are not 3rd world poor..They attend our schools, are given the same if not MORE opportunity as a "minority", and yet here they are being reported on Jihad watch that they've been recently caught engaging in plans to carry off terror attacks in the name of "Allah" simply because this is kuffar land...
So, no...The poverty excuse doesn't wash.
3. The problem isn't Arabs, the problem is Islam which was born in Arabia has taught generation after generation of Muslims that they are not only spiritually superior as Muslims but racially superior as Arabs who are Muslims.
Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in Allah’s Cause. Killing him is a small matter to us.
Tabari IX 69
Otherwise why is it Muslim insist the Quran cannot be understood unless it's read in it's "pure" Arabic?
4. The simple answer is no. Islam will not undergo a transformation of understanding, simply because the Quran and Allah have made salvation possible by the very acts of violence committed by Muslims. Martyrdom in Islam is killing yourself in order to kill non muslims.
The violence of the Old Testament differs greatly from the violence Islam is once again displaying. Anyone with grade 6 reading skills understands that the Old Testament is about the people of Israel and God's covenant with them. Where it started, during it's time, and the foretelling of the end of that covenant. The violence within was regarding the establishment of the nation of Israel by God's hand. It did not require global domination, or the command to spread the law of Moses by sword. They were to be a set apart nation on ONE piece of land allotted to them. They were set apart because from them God's salvation would come. The law of Moses was not practiced ANYWHERE outside of the nation of Israel by non Jews...Simply because they didn't spread it, they lived by it themselves.
When Jesus came to the Jews, He also opened the door to the Gentiles. Jesus commanded the gospel be spread, gently as a dove. His commands are to love God and love your neighbor as yourself, understanding that ANYONE is your neighbor. Jew/Gentile, Black/White, EVERYONE is to be loved as yourself. As He loved all of us. The law of Moses leads to this revelation of who Jesus Christ is. John 3:16 can't be any clearer as to the nature of God towards man...Love.
On the other hand, Mohammed took both Mecca and Medina by force and the Quran's fundamental lesson within is that Islam must be dominate everywhere for Allah. To the point even war is prescribed for every Muslim. Islam borrows from the law of Moses and grossly distorts to apply in a way that benefitted Mohammed directly as the new "prophet" of this God of Abraham the Jews and Christians follow. It's precepts weren't just for the Muslims of Mohammed's day to follow, but for every generation.
8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Warfare is prescribed to meet this end. Right to the end.
Jesus Christ's teachings are vastly superior..Perfect, He asked no one to kill for Him.
5. Islam's claim to fame is that Mohammed is the final prophet, therefore changing the Quran by removing the Jihad would be to say the prophet was wrong...Never, ever will this happen in Islam. An individual can reach this conclusion. But Islam as a whole collective? No.
You said in conclusion, and I quote.
"let's play your game and let the arab world precisely to be left alone do you think that this gonna stop gihadists or did you forget the taliban/Pakistan and their involvbement in time square. no i think USA with the help of Moderates muslims or whatever people from differents sects and religions and from all the freethiking world can counterfight Jihad mean USA has the means to stop this madeness called islamic jihad and not europe sorry to tell you this espacially that the threat is ideological rather than physical"
No, it's not going to stop them. Admitting we are at war with jihading Islam is the only thing that will do it. They've already admitted it, we are the ones in denial. However, the notion that this threat is ideological rather than physical is naive and ignorant. The list of terror attacks by Muslims today is overwhelming evidence of the physical threat Islam is globally. New York, London, Spain, Africa, Russia, they're even getting bolder in China....
There is nothing, no excuse to justify the violence within Islam. Not religion, poverty, politics, nothing. The violence is simply because their religion demands it. It was pushed back from Europe centuries ago for the EXACT same reason. It will never change. Conquor is the name of the game. Calling it anything else is intellectual dishonesty.
Well put. I am amazed at how the average BOZO here in America sees in the news that about 50% of the problems in the world are caused by Islam and the other 50% by politicians. However there seems to be some mysterious psychological disconnect between cause and effect, and Obama Been Rotten is part and parcel of this.
It is time to say it again;
Under Islam your son must die for god.
Under Christianity God's Son dies for you.
No, it's not going to stop them. Admitting we are at war with jihading Islam is the only thing that will do it. They've already admitted it, we are the ones in denial. However, the notion that this threat is ideological rather than physical is naive and ignorant. The list of terror attacks by Muslims today is overwhelming evidence of the physical threat Islam is globally. New York, London, Spain, Africa, Russia, they're even getting bolder in China....
Excellent point by point refutation to Omar's naive post. Islam cannot hold a candle to Judeo-Christian beliefs, because it is a 'religion' of war founded by a 7th century warlord. Poverty within the Islamic world is self imposed by their doctrines. The scriptural similarities are negligible, and distorted, while the differences are epic. Islam is a warlord's creed, while Christianity is a path to salvation of the soul - worlds apart. Well done!
These stupid hate mongers should be wiped out from the face of the earth. I am a Muslim and I am ashamed that Talibans belong to us.
But the fact is had USA not supported/aided/helped them Against soviet union's invasion of Afghanistan, they(Talibans) would have been in no position to pose any threat to any country.
And no religion allows its followers to kill others in the name of religion. Islam or Christianity or Jews !! Learn to co-exist..
You guys must understand that these Talibans are not the representatives of the whole Muslim world. They kill Muslims too. Infact more Muslims then the rest.
The day is near when all of them will be wiped out. INSHALLAH( God willing)