Rep. Hoekstra: Connection between Times Square bomber and Pakistani Taliban would be a "game-changer"

It ought to be, and it would be long overdue with regard to American tolerance of Pakistan's foot-dragging, highly selective approach to addressing jihadist groups within its borders, and the frequent complicity of the Inter-Services Intelligence with those groups' activities, whether involving Kashmir or the western frontier provinces. "Congressman cites probable link between Shahzad, Pakistani Taliban," from CNN, May 6:

(CNN) -- The ranking Republican on the House intelligence committee says "there probably is a strong link" between Times Square car bombing suspect Faisal Shahzad and the Taliban in Pakistan.
Rep. Peter Hoekstra told CNN's American Morning on Thursday that he has drawn that conclusion from a number of sources.
"If this is accurate, it would be a game-changer," Hoekstra said.
"We're going to get much more aggressive and perhaps more creative in terms of how we gather intelligence to find the plots and find individuals to stop them," he said.
He said his committee, the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, will be getting an official briefing later Thursday.
According to a law enforcement source with knowledge of Shahzad's questioning, the suspect made a practice run in Manhattan the day before he allegedly tried to blow up a car bomb in Times Square.
Last Friday, Shahzad drove his white Isuzu from Connecticut through Times Square, where he staked out potential locations for the following night's planned attack, the source said. He then parked the Isuzu several blocks away from Times Square, though the precise location was unclear, and took a train back to Connecticut, the source said.
Separately, authorities in Pakistan have rounded up a number of people for questioning, as U.S. law enforcement officials sought Wednesday to piece together Shahzad's actions and motivations.
Iftikhar Mian, the father-in-law of the suspect, and Tauseef Ahmed, Shahzad's friend, were picked up in Karachi, Pakistan, on Tuesday, two intelligence officials said.
An intelligence source said Wednesday that Muhammed Rehan, an associate of Shahzad, also was detained Tuesday.
New details began to emerge on how Shahzad made his way to Times Square on Saturday night.
With his recently acquired Pathfinder loaded with his makeshift explosives, Shahzad drove southbound along Manhattan's East River on FDR Drive to the 49th Street exit, the law enforcement source said.
Shahzad then pulled over and reached into the Pathfinder's rear compartment where he attempted to set into motion the process needed to set off the homemade bomb, the source said.
The source, who did not explain how Shahzad had attempted to set off the bomb, said he then took a number of turns and wound up entering Times Square by driving south down Seventh Avenue.
It's unclear why Shahzad left the Pathfinder's engine running and hazard lights blinking.
But because of an incredible goof, Shahzad couldn't use his escape car. He had accidentally left the keys to that vehicle in the Pathfinder that he thought was about to blow up, the source said....
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If he'd just parked it and walked away, people in the area would have confronted him right away and told him he couldn't park there.

He left the engine running and the 4-ways on so people would think he'd be right back, and not see the vehicle there as a driving nuisance or an explosive threat.

Smart.

Connection between Times Square bomber and Pakistani Taliban would be a "game-changer"
......................

Well, yes—it should be. And yet, the current administration has urged—even admonished!—India to "keep a dialog going" with Pakistan, despite Pakistan's being behind the horrific Mumbai attacks.

So—will this be a "game-changer" in our relations with that meretricious and Jihad-minded place? I hope Rep. Hoekstra is correct, but I fear relations with Pakistan may not just remain the same—bad enough—but that they may well inveigle even more money and favors out of the United States in order to better "fight terrorism".

In India, people think USA is very stupid.

USA is enabling its own destruction by giving pakistan more money, more weapons and more sympathy than any other nation.

Pakistan prepares more jihadis, has more jihadi-trainers, has allotted more space for jihad-training purposes than any other nation in the world and it has, in addition, a whole institution - ISI - providing support to jihadis - which no other nation has.

AND YET

USA keeps giving more funds and more weapons and more help to pakistan. If that is not stupid than I don't know what is.

Leading Project Jihad is the notorious intelligence agency of Pakistan, the ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence), staffed by serving officers of Pakistan’s military on a rotational basis. Almost every major Sunni Islamic terrorist entity—Al Qaeda, the Taliban or Lashkar-e-Taiba—owe their existence and operational capabilities to the support received from the ISI. When the Taliban, a brainchild of the ISI, overran Kabul fifteen years ago the administrative support to run the country — arms, fuel and financing — flowed from Pakistan.

There was no way al-Qaeda leadership could have taken root in the Taliban-controlled Afghanistan without Pakistan’s tacit approval. This was despite the open knowledge that well before the 9/11 attacks the United States had implicated Bin Laden and al-Qaeda in terrorist attacks on its interests. Pakistan also allowed local charities to funnel funds to Bin Laden’s group in Afghanistan. Moreover, the al-Qaeda rank and file who used the Pakistani port city of Karachi as a transit point to enter landlocked Afghanistan could have been stopped had the Pakistanis wanted to.

Yet, Pakistan’s intent toward the United States has been misconstrued.

> "If this is accurate, it would be a game-changer," Hoekstra said.

"We're going to get much more aggressive and perhaps more creative in terms of how we gather intelligence to find the plots and find individuals to stop them," he said.

I like to believe what Hoekstra says!!!
Yeah, we will now give 20 billion dollars a year to Pakistan instead of 10B$.

It will be business as usual since the PC minded US politicians and the media are totally gutless and have lost even the natural instincts of any living being to defend themselves!!

Yea, what Khushi said.

US administration and citizenry at large will immediately blame themselves for the actions of this man and will send billions of dollars to Pakistan (a wouldn't be surprised if Air Force One is on its way as we speak) to show how sorry Americans are. The billions will then be used to kill Indians. US helps in killings of Indians.

Not that anybody gives a flying…

@ Khushi

"In India, people think USA is very stupid".

And in India there are still many more who think US is their friend and line up for the Green Card! They're the real stupid ones, mate.

I agree with you - MoorthyM!!!

Pakistan is the terror central of the world and ISI the main jihad morphing machine. Unfortunately, the US politicians are just too dumb to understand or admit and still keep playing with those lying and cheating taqiyya toting Pakistanis.

Red flags should have gone up when after 9/11 Pakistan was forced to help us and their President Musharraf gave a speech in Urdu to his countrymen saying, Pakistan is considered the fort of Islam and whatever he is doing is good for Pakistan and Islam(I paraphrase his words. Of course he had no intention of helping US to eliminate the root cause of the problem because he and his ISI were at the roots. But to appease US Pakistanis have to produce some al Qaeda leaders to US so that the politicians here remain calm but rest assured Pakistan would never ever wipe out those jihadis, al Qaeda and Talibanis, from it's soil. US politicians are living in a dream world if they believe in Pakistan to do this job!!!

Despite being thousands of miles away and money poured down its throat, if Pakistan can be such a pain in the backside for the west, one can only imagine how dreadful it must be for Indians to have this ungrateful, US sponsored, islamic terrorist state on its doorstep.

Americans are lucky this guy is such an idiot ...But the intelligence agencies in the US are waking up to the problem that is Pakistan .
From TIME magazine "But these days, says a top counter terrorism official, "when I hear of a terrorist plot, I can count back from 10, and before I get to zero, someone will bring up the P word." The P word being Pakistan .

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1987395,00.html

The present administration should seriously reconsider its policy towards Pakistan . It has turned into a hell hole .

Rep. Hoekstra: Connection between Times Square bomber and Pakistani Taliban would be a "game-changer"

Yes indeed, a game-changer: exchanging one game for another.

What Hoekstra, through the myopic haze of his non-Leftist Republican PC MC (which differs only in flavoring and coloring from the Leftist variety), seems oblivious to is that we need to stop playing games.

And in India there are still many more who think US is their friend and line up for the Green Card! They're the real stupid ones, mate.

People all over the world line up for the Green Card not because they think US is their friend, but because of the opportunities the green card provides. Show me one mohammedan from some islamic shithole state, who would let his loathing of the US interfere with his dream of getting the Green Card. They may be totally immoral, but they are certainly not stupid.

Indians may think America naive, but at least they generally don't hate it as mohamedans do.

Khushi said: "In India, people think USA is very stupid."

They've certainly got good reason to think so. In the USA, too, lots of people think we're very stupid. But not enough of them, unfortunately.

This guy's not an idiot.

There are two things that caused his attempt to fail. One was his fear of dying, ergo his having walked away from the bomb. The second thing I won't cite here.

He was one spark away from his version of success.

Hermit,
Please look away from my reply above. I completely misconstrued your comment. I'm sorry.


While you were out, Rep. Hoekstra...

9/11 was a game-changer. Fort Hood was a game-changer. The erstwhile underwear-bomber was a game-changer. Now you say THIS one is a game-changer? But just in the context of Pakistan as the "game?" You're not seeing the whole playing-field, sir. That's OK, as the poster-child for "Muslims Gone Wild," it's a perfect place to start. Perhaps your nose will lead you to the rest of the islamic human-landfill. So please GET THE HELL BUSY AND CHANGE IT, ALREADY!

The US and the west is full of Shahzad's and in ever increasing numbers. What could possibly go wrong with that? That should be a game changer, but it won't be.

Being aggressive requires eliminating all of the Taliban strong holds and training centers in Pakistan.

Yes a daunting task it is, and there should be a declared war on them from Pakistan,Nato,the UN Security Counsel, and the United States as well as securing or removing the nukes in Pakistan--

Until this happens the threat will continue to grow exponentially greater

"We're going to get much more aggressive and perhaps more creative in terms of how we gather intelligence to find the plots and find individuals to stop them," he said.

How about a FULL audit,of ALL activities,of ALL "religious" organizations,that wish to continue to enjoy no-tax status?

Oh?Too"aggressive",you say?

Tough cheese!


The change will be more appeasement for Musselman. More money to Mohammedans and concessions at the expense of non Muslims. It is the same story, a Mohammedan plots an Islamic terrorist act, and is caught, after which a myriad of nonsensical explanations by MSM and apologists, but nothing is done concretely to stop Islamic Jihad both stealth and the violent.

"If this is accurate, it would be a game-changer," Hoekstra said.

Well...

There's game-changers, and then there's game-changers.

Even if the US Government were to suddenly realize that Pakistan is our enemy, and drastically alter our foreign policy posture towards that country (even this is highly unlikely, considering the fact that the US has a Chief Executive who is firmly in the enemy's camp), there would still be no attempt to address the underlying issue: Pakistan is not the problem; Islam is the problem.

Declaring Pakistan to be our enemy, and taking steps to protect ourselves from Pakistan, would be comparable to the US, in 1941, declaring war on the city of Osaka, rather than on the Empire of Japan.

Unless and until we get some national leaders who at least have the courage to truthfully describe the problem, any attempts to deal with the problem are at best useless, and at worst, treasonous.

"there probably is a strong link" between Times Square car bombing suspect Faisal Shahzad and the Taliban in Pakistan.

No kidding, whooda thot it...A nice Mahoundian boy like that?
The FBI found a Quran in his house...you don't suppose he had been reciting that do you? There's something about the Quran that drives men mad...Every one of these terrorists own one and recite it frequently...I know it's not PC to bring the Quran into question, and I don't want to hurt any Mahoundian feelings, but I'm starting to think the Quran is not a good book...it may even be evil...I bet Faisal's Quran was open to sura 9:5...

"In India, people think USA is very stupid"

Kushi, I don't think 'USA is stupid' nor do most Indians. Today's Indian Express had a tongue in cheek headline that went 'Time to catch a terrorist: 53 hours". WHEN HAS OUR GOVERNMENT EVER BEEN THIS PROMPT IN APPREHENDING TERRORISTS? Even the terrorists who rigged the stadium in Bangalore are still running around plotting their next.

Indians are sitting ducks of the weakest kind. Remember Mumbai? Do you think the US would have faced such losses from a dozen inept armed young men? NO WAY. Let alone the special force officers and the police (who failed dismally), the citizenry itself would have got these fellows before they inflicted too much damage.

India has a lot to learn from the US and Israel. Indian policy is just as 'stupid' as American policy. I read a few days ago that visa rules were being eased for Pakistani students coming to India. How clever!

New York City approves giant mosque at WTC site:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/05/06/2010-05-06_plan_for_mosque_near_world_trade_center_site_moves_ahead.html

Some of the families of the fallen are quite naturally mortified. Makes one want to upchuck.

MoorthyM, I'm glad to see you posting here. Your book "Defeating Political Islam: The New Cold War" is superb. Along with arguably the best description to be found anywhere of the situation in India, it likewise contains the most clear-eyed assessment to be found anywhere of what it will take to stop Islamic expansionism in its tracks. Very highly recommended reading for everyone.

@swami

There are two aspects in this war. As I have said before there is the physical or this world aspect and there is a spiritual aspect as well.

We are witnessing faint glimmers of hope at the worldly level. And I applaud everyone of them no mater how small they maybe. However on the spiritual side of the ledger it is a very dark place.

What people hear and read effects their world view and the Koran is well suited at creating more darkness and as you say drive men mad. Our godless culture of the west offers no defense and is some ways just as mad. To name a few example the destruction of the family, whole sail disrespect of authority and moral decay of our local and national leaders. These are symptoms of the problem. The antidote is the Word of God which we have abandoned and have no defense to counter that which comes from the pit.

Ugh..that does make me want to vomit. How can this be approved? To me, Ground Zero is sacred ground. Who thought this brilliant idea up?
Morons.

"...despite some loved ones of 9/11 victims finding it offensive."

I didn't lose a loved one on 9/11 (but a friend of mine did) and even I find this building project offensive. muslims don't care one whit about the victims of 9/11 or their families ...

Good god, this is outrageous!! Hopefully the good people of New York will take appropriate action to reverse the decision to permit the creation of this obscenity. But, wait...maybe there is a parallel plan that's been approved that we haven't heard about to build a giant Christian cathedral or Jewish synagogue two blocks from the Grand Mosque in Mecca? Somehow I doubt it.

The advantage that India has is that it has already been subjected to Islamic terror for several centuries. We in the US are unfortunate in that we are poor subjects of history and currently ruled by Politically Correct masters.

Very disgusting to say the least. How appalling to let the barbaric Mohammedans build a stupid Mosque. If I am correct it is another one of those signs of superiority. As in the days past when Mohammedans conquered parts of non Muslims lands they razed Temples, Synagogues and Churches, and on which they built a Mosque. This is true for what they are doing at the 9/11 site. Mohammedans destroyed the symbols American economic might and want to build a Mosque to symbolize the victory of Islam.

Those "Americans" never quit, do they? Yet another "American" going out of his way to commit a mass-murder of Americans ... .
Betim Kaziu, a Kosovar Albanian plotting to kill American soldiers as "thanks" for their waging jihad for him on Serb Christians, other Albanians plotting a MASS-MURDER of American soldiers at Fort Dix, the very Fort Dix where Clinton, Albright, Gore, Clark and other American war criminals held a pompous ceremony in 1999 "welcoming Kosovar Albanian refugees" and boasting of murdering Serb Christians "for a humanitarian cause". Nidal Hasan, a "Palestinian", succeding at Fort Hood where the Albanians failed at Fort Dix. A group of other "Americans" (US Army Arabic linguists) plotting to poison food at Fort Jackson, SC, which is exactly what Kosovar Albanians tried to do in the Yugoslav Army as early as 1985. A Bosnian Muslim Suleiman Talovic going on a shooting spree at a shopping mall in Salt Lake City shouting "Allahu Akbar!". Only because he was himself shot dead by an off-duty cop he killed "only" 5. But he was loaded for hundreds. And our abominable media immediatelly tried to explain this away, saying that the "poor kid" Talovic is from Srebrenica where he was "traumatized" by the "Serb atrocities". Even for this they tried to direct the blame against the Serbian people whom they helped to crucify. Lowly, cowardly Goebbelses. Walter Lippmans.
And our State Dept. criminals keep importing those "Americans" by hundreds of thousands every year.
And who went Satanic teaching every Muslim walk-in how to make bombs out of houshold materials right there in Pakistan where Shahzad and other "Americans" trained? Who else but our Criminal Imbecile Agency.
Media Goebbelses, State Dept. sociopaths and the CIA criminals should be marched to a treason trial with gallows.

Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

Enraged,

Good points, interesting style but stop doing too many lines OK?

If true, I would think the guy who was worried about the backlash against Muslims and he won't tolerate it would be the prime suspect in approving such an outrageous and sacrilegious act!!!! It pains me to hear this. Have we lost all sense of decency in allowing this atrocity once again to perpetrated against us.

New York city council/Mayor have gone mad or what. These are the sacred grounds near which there should never be any Mohammadan symbol of aggression should be allowed. Muslims will celebrate this mosque as a symbol of their victory against the great Satan that USA is. This must not be allowed to happen, no matter what!!!

Muslims have done this throughout the world wherever they have invaded, for example, Temple Mount, the Jewish holy site in Jerusalem has Al-Aqsa mosque on it, Ram Temple in Ayodhya, India had Babari masjid built over it, Krishna Birthplace temple in Mathura, India has a mosque built adjacent to it, Shiva Temple in Varanasi, India has a mosque built adjacent to it. Muslim invaders razed thousands of Hindu, Buddhist temples throughout India. Somnath Temple in Dwaraka, Gujrat India was one of the first Hindu temples to be destroyed by Muslim invaders - first in the 8th century and then again and again six more times by the later invaders, Mahmud Ghazni, Allauddin Khilji, Aurangzeb, etc. The last one built a mosque over the temple site using much of the construction material from the ruined temple.

So this is not new Muslims!!! They have done it for 1400 years and now they are doing it in New York City!!! They get a perverse pleasure in destroying the sacred sites of infidels. And that is what they want to do by building a mosque near the World trade center site. Will America wake up or we have handed over the country to Muslims already!!!

Of course, I forgot to mention the churches of Europe and Turkey that were destroyed/converted to mosques by Muslim invaders following the same tradition that were followed by their counterparts India!!

If this is accurate, it would be a game-changer.

The fact that he used the conditional if demonstrates that the game won't change at all.

He's in hopeful denial, not unlike the parents in that South Park episode a few years ago where they all buried their heads in the sand to avoid a confrontation with angry Moslems if they made the mistake of seeing Mohammed.

*** 92:8 ***

It'll be the same expensive Sleepwalk Kabuki dance it's been since the kickoff of the Global Jihad way back in 1996.

I couldn't agree more. We give aid to Pakistan, and they use it to kill our troops.

To quote Forest Gump, "Stupid is as stupid does."

"New York City approves giant mosque at WTC site"

That is un-effing-believable. I can't believe it. What's wrong with you, America??? This is evil.

People - A "Stop the Mosque at WTC" petition needs to be started. This is serious. This is seriously unbelievable.

Who can start such a petition?

I don't believe it. I've never heard such an outrage. A MOSQUE on the ashes of the 9/11 victims? That is SACRED AMERICAN GROUND. There was NO opposition? AMERICAN charities are going to PAY for it? WTF? The killers were all MUSLIMS, you F**KING idiots! Have we lost all pride and sense? This CANNOT be allowed to happen!

Sorry, this is just stunning and saddening.
I'm not a cryer but it makes me want to cry in rage...

It's an OUTRAGE.

It's like letting Nazis build a structure over Auschwitz.

It's unbelievable. I still can't believe it. Is it really true?

If so, there has got to be a GIGANTIC protest.

Our Mohammedan President Hussein removed Faisal Shahzad from Terror List:

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/

I agree, George ...yeah muslims are dancing on the innocent graves of those that were murdered in cold blood that day, so there must be some way to stop these heartless & soulless muslims from desecrating Hallowed Ground. This is sooo evil ...

A Mosque on ground zero...Evil comes our way...I think they made a movie about that...Financed by who... 'donations from prestigious groups such as the Ford Foundation and the Rockefeller Brothers Fund'?...Do they sell any products I can boycott?

9/11 was a game-changer. Fort Hood was a game-changer.

What we need is a name changer. Change the name from terrorist to Moslem activist and see what an enormous diff that would make in how things go.

*** 92:8 ***

Change the name from religion to religio-political belief system and see what that would do.

*** 7:3 ***

To name is to know, to know is to control. Our elites who use the wrong names do cuz they don't wanna know, they couldn't stomach to know. Oh no!

What Hoekstra, through the myopic haze of his non-Leftist Republican PC MC (which differs only in flavoring and coloring from the Leftist variety), seems oblivious...

Hesp, the whole en masse sleepwalk we're on is all about self-imposed oblivion. What we're seeing here is the most spectular effect mass media has ever had.

If they could be here, McLuhan's jaw would be on the floor, Orwell would be watching TV, noting how it turned to be this new-fangled invention called somnoprop acting where he had forecast agitprop.

*** 92:8 ***

Sure, such behavior would be diagnosed as "mildly suicidal" but doggone it it's a mild suicide now ain't it. And it's our suicide, and nobody can take that away from us.

I've just read this article.
My brain is going into meltdown!
How dare they!
The amount of utter stupidity coming out of that committee is breathtaking.
It's going to be 130 stories high with lots of goodies inside and all New Yorkers are welcome - I bet!
Forget protest - get 1 million emails+ into Blomberg he might just take some notice.
IT IS AN UTTER BETRAYAL OF THE VICTIMS OF 9/11 (inc. some Brits)
STOP IT NOW

English

You have got to freakin kidding me!!! This is the most outrageous thing I have heard in a long time!! This makes me want to throw up!! Something has to be done to stop this bullshit from happening!

Rep. Hoekstra: Connection between Times Square bomber and Pakistani Taliban would be a "game-changer"

Oh RIGHT!!!- in less than two weeks, we gonne forget P-stani-Talibani. As usual Pakie-Spin-Docs are already working on a next plan by Al-ISI in some place like New delhi-India. Of course we will tell India not to attack our best terrorist Alli aka P-Satan.

Its the business as usual- NO ONE IN THE ADMINISTRATION IS YET SERIOUS ABOUT changing the game. That can't happen while Husain is our 'Guardian'.

What a twisted world we live in since Hussain has been elected.

The only "game changer" will be when those in our government and mass media finally read the damned Koran.

If 9/11 failed, only a serious grasp of the dismal dogmas of Mohammad, or something 10 times more terrible than 9/11, will work.

(I prefer people cracking open the "Mein Kampf" of Mohammad over Muslim mass murder.)

The only "game changer" will be when those in our government and mass media finally read the damned Koran.

A man can dream, Beard, and you have a noble dream right three.

*** 92:8 ***

But nobody reads anymore. Except our elites, who act like they read. But maybe they're not reading cuz they always having this recurring hallucinatory dream. They can get away with such poor performance cuz they're officially designated as being smart enough to be stupid, a royal prerogative that these elite dreamers have no choice but to exercise.

Cornelius, I echo Momof2's comment. It seems that NYC is letting the fox lead the mourning for the dead hens.

Cornelius, thanks for posting that link. I'm surprised by how many people—*even here on JW*—were not aware of this appalling proposal.

From the article:

A proposal to build a mosque steps from Ground Zero received the support of a downtown committee despite some loved ones of 9/11 victims finding it offensive.

The 13-story mosque and Islamic cultural center was unanimously endorsed by the 12-member Community Board 1's financial district committee.

The $100 million project, called the Cordoba House, is proposed for the old Burlington Coat Factory building at Park Place and Broadway, just two blocks from the World Trade Center site.
........................

There are a number of factors here—notice the disgusting name—"Cordoba House"—which conjures images of the "Convivia" of Muslim "Al-Andalus" among the sentimental and ill-informed, and alarm bells for the rest of us.

Notice the reference to the "old Burlington Coat Factory building"—from this, one would likely assume that the business had simply moved, or was—at worst—a victim of downsizing in the recent economic downturn. Not so.

The building was so badly damaged by the landing gear from one of the hijacked planes falling through the roof and falling debris from the WTC that the building was condemned and torn down. There were—thankfully—no deaths at the Burlington Coat Factory building—but it is still false to refer to it as being "near Ground Zero"—it is *part of Ground Zero*.

"It’s Been Almost 10 Years Since 9-11-01 and There Will Finally Be Something Built Near “Ground Zero” … A Mosque"

http://www.infidelsparadise.com/?p=25579

Jihadwatchers,

Your outraged responses are entirely appropriate...Kim's analogy to a Nazi monument over Auschwitz was particularly salient. It's frigg'n heartbreaking. Relatives of the victims of 9-11 MUST take the lead to shoot this thing down!

Hi Champ & Kim,

OK, somewhat calmer here. But I wouldn't suggest that any muslims knock on my door just now. Or ever, for that matter.

I wish Cornelius would come back & tell us that this was actually taken from the Onion.
It's preposterous enough to qualify as Onion satire. The closest I can come is, "CAIR Given Green Light for Arlington National Cemetery Memorial to 9/11 Jihadist-Martyrs."
Hey, maybe they can invite Osama Bin Laden over for the gala ribbon-cutting? That's the level of absurdity we're dealing-with here.

This is NOT just about New York. The United States of America was attacked, on our own soil. This is about the dignity of those 3,000 victims and respect for their thousands of loved-ones and friends; all slaughtered or subject to life-long grief and loss by Allahu Akbar-screaming muslims. We should ALL have a voice in this. And if this doesn't piss you off, check for a pulse.

OK, no more ranting here, and it's OT, too.
I apologize to all. I'll go away and simmer-down about this now. But this travesty MUST NOT HAPPEN. Whatever it takes, this MUST NOT HAPPEN.

Game changer:

A Muslim saved NYC

"US media ignore Muslim prevented NY bombing"

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-209547-100-us-media-ignore-muslim-prevented-ny-bombing.html

Where would we be without our saviors..?

The "gamechanger" would be a swift end to all Pakistani aid.

As for NYC Mayor Bloomberg, who surmised that the TS bomber must be "someone unhappy with Obama's health plan," loading an SUV full of trans fats would have been a far worse offense than planting a bomb in his warped world.

Allowing a 13 story mosque, the definitive symbol of supremacism and suppression, on the site of their Qu'ranically inspired massacre, is unbelievable dhimmitude.

"But this travesty MUST NOT HAPPEN. Whatever it takes, this MUST NOT HAPPEN."

Everyone, you must write Bloomberg, Office of the Mayor, City Hall, New York, NY, 10007.

I still can't believe this is happening. The insanity of it all I simply can't grasp.

Let them build their pigsty. It won't ever be used for the purpose it was built for.

"If this is accurate, it would be a game-changer," Hoekstra said.

Why is it that those words don't fill me with warm fuzzy feelings of safety and confidence.

Hi, George ...

I understand how you feel, and you and I are very likeminded on this and many issues, as are many others. I mean it would be odd if we weren't angry ...

Hey this could qualify as it's own thread, right? ...maybe it will.

Take care, my friend :)

Oops ...Hey this "topic" could qualify as it's own thread, right?

Re. the mosque that is proposed to squat right next to Ground Zero, sneering and spitting upon the grief of Americans and flaunting Moslem supremacism:

Time to revisit the flaming words of Oriana Fallaci.

This link will take you to the text of 'La rabbia e l'orgoglio', 'the rage and the pride', in English translation and also in Italian.

http://italian.about.com/library/fallaci/blfallaci01i.htm

Her description of the beginning of the attack, in Italian:

"Ero a casa, la mia casa è nel centro di Manhattan, e alle nove in punto ho avuto la sensazione d'un pericolo che forse non mi avrebbe toccato ma che certo mi riguardava.

"La sensazione che si prova alla guerra, anzi in combattimento, quando con ogni poro della tua pelle senti la pallottola o il razzo che arriva, e rizzi gli orecchi e gridi a chi ti sta accanto: "Down! Get down! Giù! Buttati giù."

"L'ho respinta. Non ero mica in Vietnam, non ero mica in una delle tante e fottutissime guerre che sin dalla Seconda Guerra Mondiale hanno seviziato la mia vita! Ero a New York, perbacco, in un meraviglioso mattino di settembre, anno 2001.

"Ma la sensazione ha continuato a possedermi, inspiegabile, e allora ho fatto ciò che al mattino non faccio mai. Ho acceso la Tv.

"Bè, l'audio non funzionava. Lo schermo, sì. E su ogni canale, qui di canali ve ne sono quasi cento, vedevi una torre del World Trade Center che bruciava come un gigantesco fiammifero. Un corto circuito? Un piccolo aereo sbadato? Oppure un atto di terrorismo mirato?

"Quasi paralizzata son rimasta a fissarla e mentre la fissavo, mentre mi ponevo quelle tre domande, sullo schermo è apparso un aereo. Bianco, grosso. Un aereo di linea. Volava bassissimo. Volando bassissimo si dirigeva verso la seconda torre come un bombardiere che punta sull'obiettivo, si getta sull'obiettivo.

"Sicché ho capito. Ho capito anche perché nello stesso momento l'audio è tornato e ha trasmesso un coro di urla selvagge.

"Ripetute, selvagge. "God! Oh, God! Oh, God, God, God! Gooooooood! Dio! Oddio! Oddio! Dio, Dio, Dioooooooo!"

"E l'aereo s'è infilato nella seconda torre come un coltello che si infila dentro un panetto di burro."...

Now, in English:

"I was at home, which is in the center of Manhattan. At exactly nine o'clock I had a sensation of danger, of a danger that perhaps would not touch me, but that undoubtedly concerned me.

" It's the sensation you feel in war, or rather in combat, when every pore of your skin feels the bullet or the rocket as it approaches, and you perk up your ears and yell at the person next to you: "Down! Get down!"

"I pushed it away. It's not like I was in Vietnam. It's not like I was in one of the many wars, those fucking wars that have tortured my life since World War II. I was in New York for God's sake, on a marvellous September morning in 2001.

"But the sensation still possessed me, inexplicably. So I did something I never do in the morning and turned on the TV.

"The audio wasn't working. The screen was. And on every channel—and here there are almost a hundred—you saw a tower of the World Trade Center burning like a giant match. A short circuit? A small plane gone off course? Or an act of deliberate terrorism?

" I stayed there almost paralyzed, fixed on that tower, and while I fixed on it, while I asked myself those three questions, another plane appeared on the screen. White, huge. An airliner. It was flying extremely low. Flying low, it turned toward the second tower like a bomber who draws a bead on a target and then hurls himself at it.

"That's when I understood. I also understood because in that same moment the audio came back on and transmitted a chorus of primal screams. Repeated and primal. "God! Oh, God! Oh, God, God, God! Gooooooood!"

"And the plane went into that second tower like a knife going into a stick of butter."
END QUOTE.

People here have spoken of inundating the Mayor of New York City with emails and letters.

Don't just do that. You *have* to come out on the streets, in and around Ground Zero, not in dozens, or hundreds, but in thousands; and not once, but many times.

And I suggest that when the first protest rally is held, right at the site of the proposed mosque, part of that protest should involve the reading aloud of Oriana Fallaci's 'La rabbia e l'orgoglio', with intent, in Italian and in English, paragraph by paragraph. Find readers who will give it all they've got; readers who will say it the way Oriana might have said it, at such a protest, had she lived to see this day.

Note also: the Muslim fort and war bunker is proposed to be built on the site of the old Burlington Coat Factory, which was so badly damaged by the parts of the plane falling on it, that it had to be demolished. So presumably there is a 'vacant lot' there at present? Fenced?

Maybe protesters should think about the way in which the EDL protested against the Dudley mosque. There is, of course, no rooftop to occupy. But there are surely all sorts of creative things that could be done, ways for non-Muslims -especially the families of those murdered in that mass-murderous jihad raid - to express their absolute refusal to accept the building of a mosque on an area that would not have been available for building, had it not been 'cleared' by an act of jihadist terror.


"If this is accurate, it would be a game-changer," Hoekstra said.

It seems to me that this statement is for the scared domestic freedom loving sheeple's consumption.

As long as there is a real possibility of both Oil and LNG pipeline from Central Asia via Afghanistan-Pakistan to a port in the Indian Ocean and by Russian estimates some $400 billion a year to be made in opium and heroine narco trade to Europe, it is not worth upsetting the Pakistani Islamic Terrorist apple cart for a mere 3,000 butchered on 9/11 in NYC or 166 butchered in Mumbai. Why be surprised at the zero response and non-action of the US on the thousands of Hindus killed in the Kashmir Valley by Pakistanis.

Right after 9/11 Bush yelled " You are either with us or against us" and Pakistan peed on his leg giving him a warm and fuzzy feeling, and Bush rewarded Pakistan with more Billions in free aid.

Then there was Richard Armitage to Musharraf "Be prepared to be bombed. Be prepared to go back to the Stone Age", and once again Pakistan peed on his shoes and gave him excuses, and the State Dept. sent more US taxpayer's money, military equipment and warnings to India not to attack the Pakis.

The Islamic world is taking Osama's word for granted that the US is a "paper tiger", that the US is all bark and no bite. Is it any wonder that "forces" in Pakistani are poking their IED ladden Pathfinder finger into uncle Sam's Time Square chest? A brazzen move indeed! You heard their FM
boldly warning the US and Obama, "This is retaliation. And you could expect that."
Why is a 3rd world banana republic warning the sole superpower? Because Pakistanis actually believe Osama is right and are more than convinced that the Americans are pussies. They are sure that the US can never ever afford to attack Pakistan with an ever increasing number of Islamic radicals ready to seize power with and unstable civilian government and this is exactly why their military is backing and multiplying terrorist camps and Jihadists.

I sure hope I'm wrong, but it looks to me like there is no real game-changer here Mr. Hoekstra!

OT

Snowy and Leon were removed from the roof by an armed response unit, and were tasered. One of them has a broken arm, the other a black eye. They were clearly punished for their protest. Hardly the treatment Fathers 4 Justice got from the police and courts, is it?

They are being charged with burglary and "religious hatred". They are being held on remand in a segregation unit, presumably for their own protection from the muslim gangs who are making prisons a recruiting ground leading the violent dregs of society into jihad.

Already in the US violent criminals are converting, then leaving prison to go off and fight jihad in Somalia. Those who don't get killed will be returning to their countries in the west trained as guerillas.

EDL leadership thinks that £12,000 is required to get Snowy and Leon the counsel they need to get justice. I'm asking everyone I know in the counter-jihad movement to make a donation. Snowy has a wife and kids, and without the proper defense he could be sent down for a few years. If you can make a donation, there is a paypal link on the front page of the main EDL website.

http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/

Snowy and Leon took risks I would never take. And now their liberty is at stake for doing what many of us would not dare to do.

Thanks for that information, Cornelius, about a mosque being approved near the WTC disaster area, a site steeped in tragedy PRECISELY because Islam exists. Did not know. We live in Orwellian times. Damn Islam. Damn Mohammed. And damn Western ignorance of Islam, what could be called the Contessa Brewer Syndrome.

Indeed this incident could prove to be a 'game-changer' insofaras USA's relations with Pakistan are concerned.
So far, USA has been tripling the aid to Pakistan every time such a link has been observed. Now, USA will be forced to at least quadruple its aid to enable Pakistan to counter such threats.

"Contessa Brewer Syndrome"

I like it. It's a different disease than "Stockholm Syndrome" but has a common cause. Will use it in a conversation at the first appropriate opportunity.

Did you know Contessa has her own Wikipedia entry? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contessa_Brewer And did you know that anyone is able to edit Wikipedia entries? Just saying.

It is in keeping with the hegemonic Islamic tradition to raze a holy place, a Synagogue, Church or Temple, after brutally killing those who were defending these holy places with their lives, and then build a magnificient Mosque on or surrounding the razed infidel structure after all items of worship e.g. Torahs, Crucifixes, Idols, Rosaries etc, are buried under the foot steps at the door of the Mosque, so that muslims step onto the fallen each time they enter the Mosque.

For the families, WTC area are hallowed grounds, a place of worship for the 3,000 martyred innocent lives whose blood and hopes drenched the very ground where WTC stood and farther where the dust of their ashes settled and blessed the ground.

Their is ample room available elsewhere, curious why the muslims are so so bent on building a mosque in the WTC area?

To allow a Mosque to be built there will be an ultimate insult to the fallen heros and signal a resounding defeat of America's resolve. Worse, it will give the visiting radical imams an oppotunity to gloat during the Friday sermons about how allah destroyed the evil infidels and "established Islam" in its place, right here where the infidels once roamed free without fear of allah's wrath.

How about we ask our Manhattan planning board to make a deal with Saudi Arabia, get us permission to build a Synagogue in Mecca in memory of the Jewish holocaust? Do they have the balls to get us a legal writ?
Yet they bow down like Obama at every muslim whim and demand.

Personally I think building a mosque anywhere in the world is an abomination, let alone on the hallowed grounds of ground zero. But hey, US is a democratic country, keen to spread democracy to the four corners of the world, teaching the uncouth and the illiterate dregs of this world the benefits of this fantastic form of governance.

So, if the building meets all the planning regulations, then why ever not? In a free and democratic country, all its citizens have a right to practice their faith in a way they see fit, so why not US citizens who happen to be muslims? Also it appears that US is keen to strengthen its ties with the muslim world, therefore undoubtedly those burning US flags and effigies on the streets of muslim capitals will be pleased.

To me however, it will be a permanent reminder of US capitulation to islam and a symbol of its friendship with the muslim world and Pakistan in particular. Just for that alone it is a must. Anything less would just be hypocritical. An OIC headquarters and a Pakistani embassy could also be incorporated in the design. Nice.

I am assuming you simply forgot to put the /sarc tag at the end of your comment, Hermit.

BTW, I wonder if anyone has considered what the effect of this "loveliest" sound (Obama) blaring across lower Manhattan five times a day would be on the locals?

'If you build it they will come'...in the case of NY, they are already there...A mosque anywhere is a victory monument, especially if it had minarets...The mosque near ground zero will be large and mostly made of glass...Glass has this annoying quality of being easily broken...you know what they say about people who live in glass houses...
This is an abomination...I wonder how long it will take before we hear of pig product contamination of the site?

I've got an idea ... a couple of protesters, we could call them the "New York 2" could go out to the site, play the Islamic call to prayer over ground zero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_9z4KJfc4A&feature=related

I don't know though even as a protest this would be offesnsive to the 9/11 families.

I don't mind the building of a mosque at Ground Zero: It will just give us a juicy target to destroy the day we finally wake up.

Regarding all of this NY activity, there is a common cause in fighting islam, whether here, or on foreign soil. This has to occur on a civilian level. The U. S. military and government has its own self-seeking motives. Our armies are used in the service of benefiting the goals of profit and power, not in the service of protecting U. S. citizens. Sharia is also global in its goal, not just state or country. I also wonder what will happen when the derisive liberals in New York have their own families slaughtered and raped more and more. The Americans who are still living in a dream world because it rattles their cages too much to start living in reality are our main problem. The Brits are really putting their arses on the line now and showing some real resistance because the horror of sharia is hitting home too much. Europeans are much closer to having had fairly recent, WWII massive war tragedies in their homelands than we are, so they are better honed than we are. Eventually, we will have to do this too. We can consider the WTC annihilation to be our London Blitz and stop pretending that we are different from our European allies. For whatever the reason is, be it the self-serving motives of our world-leaders, or the manipulation of foreign countries who are using the U. S. for their own political advantage, the problem is still now on our doorstep. It is much easier to look to the "reasons" out there than it is to directly confront the enemy. We can take care of the opportunists, provocateurs and instigators later.

They will build the tower of isalm and then the whole community will be taken over by the muslims. It will be a victory because they destroyed it and then they will take it over.

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