Turkey: "Insanity" defense of man accused in bishop's murder questioned

More and more people, still possessed of their common sense, are coming to the understanding that adherents of Islam all suffer from some sort of mental illness, the extent of which is directly proportional to the depth into which the individual has descended into the pit of Islam.

US and UK "leaders" so-called, as well as the "leaders" of other western nations ("John Brennan, we're looking at you," after your recent boneheaded remarks on jihad) may continue to stick their collective heads into the sand, but more and more of us are deciding that we will not be following.

If these "leaders" are leading anywhere, it is smack-dab into the insanity of Islam. Fortunately more and more of the citizens of western nations are becoming aware of the Islamic monster.

After hours of questioning, the police confirmed the insanity of Murat. AsiaNews sources had said yesterday that Murat was "depressed, violent, full of threats."

He is definitely mentally ill, just like the rest of the "Islamo-paths". Sociopathology is rampant among Islamists. There is no known cure. Drugs, thereapy don't help. This is going to be a common thread in future cases, just watch. It started with Maj. Nidal Hasan and will continue to be the Islamic excuse for killings of Christians, Jews and other Infidels in the name of Jihad.
They are all sociopaths and cowards and will use every method to get their dirty jobs done legally.
"Dirty-Deeds Done Dirt-Cheap".

Just more Christians being killed by Muslims. This time it was a bishop. Turkey says the killer was deranged. Aren't all the Muslim killers deranged? The entire culture of Islam is deranged and steeped in killing. Yet this is accepted as a fact of life and no one is supposed to call attention to it. The UN doesn't care to inquire and neither does the media. So it becomes a non-issue. There is a type of triage going on in the media world. Muslim crimes are given low-priority news treatment. If they are reported at all they are reported with any number of off-the-shelf justifications and excuses. Deranged Muslim. Victimized Muslim who snapped. Etc. Meanwhile, someone swats a fly in Israel and it's page one news across the globe.

Here are the latest videos on the Gaza flotilla episode:

http://camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=52&x_article=1859

Another Italian Catholic killed by the jihadis and Italy and the Church will "forgive" sans any repentance from the islamists and stupidly FORGET as well.

No mention of it here in our Chicago press cuz it is ONLY an Italian priest. But having been raised on Chi town's SW side (and survived it), I can tell you that if Israel so much musses one red hair on the heads of those Celtic "peace activists" is is THESE Irish posseurs who will be portrayed as poor, dear martyrs.

Was the killer a Muslim? I heard some saying he was Christian.

From the Archives:

Fitzgerald: Are Muslims who kill Infidels "insane"?

When a Jordanian soldier shot and killed Israeli third-graders who had come from their school to visit a "Peace Garden" planted on both sides of the Israel-Jordan border, he was described as "insane." When an Egyptian soldier, on the other side of Israel, opened fire on a group of Israeli tourists and killed men, women, and children, he was described as "insane."

Now if you do not know what texts the killers had read, what they believed, and the atmospherics of their existence, then you would of course describe both men as "insane." And you might also think them “insane” if you did not know about Islam, and had been very careful not ever to find out it, because then you might have to warn your people, and in warning them you might feel you were not so much arming them as depressing them, lowering their morale. For they would have to come to grips with the awful truth: that the Lesser Jihad against Israel is permanent, that it is rooted in Islam, immutable Islam, and that nothing Israel does, no further surrenders of territory, will assuage the Muslim Arabs. A state of permanent war (though not always of open warfare, as long as deterrence can be made to work) will simply have to be endured.

Abdul Aziz Yahya al-Abdi, murderer of an innocent man, a Jew, in Yemen, is clearly an upset man. Something has gone wrong with his life. He murdered his wife two years ago. Of course he wasn’t punished for that. Perhaps he murdered her because he had lost his pilot’s job and he had to take it out on someone. Or perhaps he lost his pilot’s job after he murdered his wife because, even though he suffered no other punishment, the air transportation company that had employed him became a little alarmed about his reaction to stress. But is Abdi, was Abdi when he killed that completely innocent Yemenite Jew, “insane”?

Was Abdi, that is, who killed a Jew because that Jew insisted on remaining a Jew, and even on remaining in Yemen, really someone whom the Yemenis in their own milieu consider “insane”? Or do they prefer to characterize him as “insane” only for the world’s outside Infidels, so as to protect the faith of Islam, so as not to have to make clear that he was behaving as Muslims can, with such impunity, because of the Shari’a? Was not the government of Yemen merely acting in the same way as the Jordanians do when they described that Jordanian soldier who murdered the Israeli schoolgirls “insane” and the same as the Egyptian officials who called that Egyptian soldier who murdered the Israeli families on a holiday in the Sinai “insane”? No, the Jordanian soldier, the Egyptian soldier, and Abdi the Yemenite were not insane. They were, possibly, simply unable to hold in their natural impulses, impulses which, you can be sure, on many occasions, over 1350 years, many Muslims have freely indulged in – killing Jews, or Christians, or Hindus, or Zoroastrians, with impunity, with no fear of being punished and no punishment, save that which fellow Muslims might mete out if, as in the case of the Jews of Yemen, they were considered chattel, property whose loss was felt and could, therefore, be avenged by destroying the property of the tribe of the killer.

And because in the fastnesses of the Yemen the pressure of European power, the presence of Europeans, never had much influence, the old ways continued right up to the last few decades. To understand just how unimportant the life of a Jew in the Yemen has been, right up to the middle of the twentieth century, the excerpt by the British scholar R. S. Serjeant, quoted in Andrew Bostom’s anthology, The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism, pp. 658-659, may be instructive:

...Judging by Arabic sources, the Jews of South Arabia were...dealt with...in fairly strict accordance with the shariah relating to the protected faiths...[for example] Outside the centralized Yemenite administration the Jew was protected by the Sultan, or even by the individual tribe; such was the case on the Habbanis. The protector would of course, be of the arms-bearing classes or perhaps of the religious aristocracy. In South Arabia it is shameful to kill a Jew, as it would be to kill a woman. An excellent example (emphasis added) of this form of protection ...is to be found in a passage from the Fakhir of al-Mufaddal b. Salamah. A protected Jew of al-Husain, the Sayid of the Banu Sahm, was murdered by the Banu Sirmah, so the Sahm in turn slew a protected Jew of the Sirmah...the Sirmah came to al-Husain to discuss the matter. Al-Husain replied, “You killed our Jew, so we killed your Jew,” adding that it would be a pity if two tribes closely related should actually engage each other in war.

And that is the end of the matter, even today, for most Muslims. Where do you think that Jordanian soldier or that Egyptian soldier are today, the ones who murdered the Israeli schoolgirls and families on holiday? Do you think they are still in prison? How long do you think they stayed in prison? Do you think they were ever seriously treated as if they were “insane”?

Don’t be crazy.

[Posted by Hugh on December 26, 2008]

Crazy,
I'm crazy for killing you
I'm crazy, crazy for feelin' blue
I knew you wouldn't understand why
And someday I'll have to kill some other guy
Worry, why do I let myself worry?
Wond'ring why the world let's me do it?
Crazy for thinkin' it isn't Islam
I'm crazy for trying and crazy for dying
Crazy for lovin' Islam
I'm crazy for thinkin' you won't notice
I'm crazy for lying and crazy for dying
Crazy for lovin' Islam

With heartfelt apologies to Willie Nelson..........

Good one, tanstaafl!

"depressed, violent, full of threats." That´s not insanity, its Islam taken literally!

The German newspaper "Die Welt" reported online the man was screaming "Allahu Akbar" while killing with two fruit knives he was carrying:

Beim ersten Messerstoß brach die Klinge. Der Mörder setzte seinem Opfer in den Garten nach und rief dabei „Allahu Akbar“, packte Padovese von hinten und schnitt ihm mit einem zweiten Obstmesser den Hals durch. Das Obduktionsergebnis bestätigte, dass der Bischof an einem Schnitt durch den Hals starb.

Translation: During the first stab the blade broke. The murderer followed his victim into the garden yelling "Allahu Akhbar", grabbed Padovese from behind and cut his throat. The post mortem confirmed Padovese had died from a cut through his throat.

http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article7909574/Der-erschuetternde-Tod-des-Bischofs-Luigi-Padovese.html

After hours of questioning, the police confirmed the insanity of Murat. AsiaNews sources had said yesterday that Murat was "depressed, violent, full of threats."
..................

Now, I believe that the insanity defense is rather too widely used in the United States—but, at least, a defendant's insanity must be proven in a court of law—before a judge or judge and jury, following a battery of psychological tests, observation by psychiatrists, sworn testimony of accredited doctors, and his presented case history.

But the insanity of this killer of a Catholic Bishop was apparently "confirmed" here by the police of a small Turkish city.

Sounds rock solid to me...sarc/off

Why didn't he hire a Christian driver ?!

TURKEY: MSGR.PADOVESE; DRIVER CHARGED, LED BY DIVINE VOICE
(ANSAmed)
ANKARA, JUNE 4
Murat Altun, the 26-year old Turkish driver, was this morning formally charged by a court in Iskenderun in connection with the murder of Monsignor Luigi Padovese, the vicar apostolic of Anatolia, who was knifed to death in his garden yesterday. So reports the private broadcaster NTV, though the exact nature of the charge was not specified. The suspected murderer, who had served at the high prelate for over four years, had converted to Christianity but in the last few years, as relatives and collaborators of Monsignor Padovese confirmed, he had shown signs of mental instability and was undergoing treatment. During police questioning, according to today's Miliyet, is reported to have claimed that "a divine revelation" led him to kill Monsignor Padovese. (ANSAmed).
2010-06-04 15:01

The Divine voice said "And slay them wherever ye find them"

And don't forget the most notorious of the Turkish would-be murderers of Catholic prelates—in this case, the shooter of Pope John Paul II—who was also widely referred to as "mentally ill". Of course, he's out now, and trying to sell his "story":

"Mehmet Ali Agca: Deranged, but in which way?"

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2010/01/25/mehmet_ali_agca_deranged_but_in_which_way/

Pope: no political opportunism in tragic death of Bishop

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-49046820100604

Jihad Watch (rolls eyes)...

http://www.alertnet.org/db/blogs/29542/f2f1dc1fcdaeb24dee302b4c69f8defa.htm

Hey Jonathan! There it is again--that little "Allahu Akbar"-thing! Is that amazing or what? What a coincidence, nicht var?

Please, can somebody clarify, with references, to me if there are provisions in Shar'ia Law for the insanity defense? When, outside of instances of secular government pleas not to kill an apostate, was the "mentally unstable" allowance made?

Considering that it was a Catholic prelate that was murdered, I'm surprised that no one has suggested what the prosecutor and the judge in one Rumpole case called "the guardsman defense".

IN light of the information presented by Buraq - that the murderer shouted Allahu akbar, and appears to have attempted to behead his victim - and the information provided by 'Andy' -

"[Murat] had converted to Christianity but in the last few years, as relatives and collaborators of Monsignor Padovese confirmed, he had shown signs of mental instability and was undergoing treatment. During police questioning, according to today's Miliyet, is reported to have claimed that "a divine revelation" led him to kill Monsignor Padovese" -

it seems to me that at the time of the killing the murderer acted as a Muslim.

This means either that his alleged conversion to Christianity had been real but only 'skin-deep' (i.e. though possibly sincere to start with, he had not undergone a thorough-enough 'cult deprogramming', thus leaving him liable to suddenly 'flip' back into 'Muslim mode'); or that it wasn't real at all - i.e. that he may have feigned conversion in order to infiltrate the Christian community, perhaps with a long-term view to ultimately doing what he did, namely, assassinate the bishop.

Whatever "mental instability" was probably the result of someone having at some point dared to leave Islam -- a most dangerous thing -- and then, perhaps, found himself in a situation of perpetual pressure from Muslims (relatives, friends, acquiantances, strangers, the circumambient society) who insisted that he convert, or "revert," back, and made him feel that he had to do a deed to prove he was indeed, again, a faithful Muslim. And what better proof could he offer than to slit the throat of the Christian bishop who had employed him and no doubt encouraged him in his new Christian faith.

As a new member of a gang, the Bloods or the Crips, has to prove himself by committing some atrocity, so an ex-Muslim who wants full re-instatement into Islam may have suggested to him, or his inner voice may have suggested to him, that a deed such as kililng a Christian bishop might be just the thing to prove he was indeed, again, beyond question, a good and faithful Muslim who had had it with Infidels, with Christians, with his own Catholic employer.

These muslims aren't even offering terms, they're bypassing conversion and moving right to the slaughtering.
In Africa they still make some attempt at the offering of islamic bliss. The Nigerian Pastors held last summer by an islamic group were asked to accept Islam. One Pastor said over his dead body and began to preached Christ to his captors. It was then and only then, that they were all beheaded to the shouts of Allahu Akhbar. Sheesh young turks.

Islam is the cause of the driver's insanity.

The Bishop deserved it.

At least that's what this (suspected Mohammedan) poster thinks, here:

http://sheikyermami.com/2010/06/04/the-driver-who-was-muslim-had-always-seemed-“devoted”-to-the-bishop/

A bit of a departure from the Turkish topic at hand but this video is an absolute riot! (pun intended) And it is spot on about the bigger picture in Turkey and elsewhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg

There is an accompanying article from the NYT as well:

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/04/israelis-explain-and-mock-flotilla-clash/

Robert, this song really gets straight at some of the themes and sources of your frustration over the years, maybe worth a link on the main page?

When you think about hiring Muslims...you should really think....

....and read...and study....and ....

Henry the unpopular wants to point out that when one is rooting for a Murderer to succeed, but the murderer gets caught, and one is looking to die for Allah for the wonderful rewards of almost infinite sexual intercourse, one can say anything one wants to say in order to keep one's friend and fellow murderer safe from the execution chamber. Who is going to argue with a man who has the equivalent of a suicide bomb pack constantly strapped on and ready to go? "You say it was sugar made him do it? Ok, I believe you." But, If we don't want to live like a prisoner acting like a fool and giving the figurative suicide bomber what ever he wants - apply this formula: When an enemy of yours has a Bible that says Murder against you and yours is a holy and good thing to do, and if you do it God will love you by giving you unlimited, disease free, loose women, THERE IS ONLY ONE THING LEFT TO DO! DEVELOP A DOCTRINE THAT WHEN THE ABOVE CONDITIONS APPLY TO YOUR ENEMY, YOU WILL RESERVE THE RIGHT TO POSSESS FOR ALL TIME THE RIGHT TO USE PREEMPTIVE SELF DEFENSE

Under Shariah law, a Muslim cannot be executed for killing an infidel. Under Shariah law, jihad must be deemed defensive (i.e. in defense of Islam, Muslims, Muslim "honor," etc.), which is why in jihad the blatant aggressors are always somehow portrayed as the victims. Under Shariah law, a mentally ill person cannot be prosecuted for crimes.

Hugh's analysis here is spot-on.

About the Dink murder, I think it important to point out that a large number of Turks actually protested the assassination. This was verified by a Turkish friend, now living in the US, who was home on a visit at the time.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/5810491.asp?gid=74&srid=3289&oid=2&l=1

There are at least some sensible people among the Turks.

There are at least some sensible people among the Turks.

That might amount to the 0.5% non-Muslim Turks and less than 1% of the Muslim Turks.

In Italian (June 7): Killer of Padovese perfectly sane, cried "Allahu Akbar" and attempted to islamically decapitate Padovese:

AsiaNews: «Monsignor Padovese è stato vittima di un omicidio rituale islamico»

L'agenzia del Pontificio Istituto Missioni Estere: dopo averlo decapitato Murat gridò «Allah Akbar»

MILANO - Monsignor Luigi Padovese potrebbe essere stato ucciso nell'ambito di un omicidio rituale islamico. «Nuovi e agghiaccianti particolari» sull'uccisione del presidente dei vescovi cattolici turchi, sono stati rivelati da AsiaNews, agenzia del Pontificio Istituto Missioni Estere, che sostiene la tesi di un «omicidio rituale», dunque inquadrabile nella visione dell'islam fondamentalista [?] e ritiene che alla luce dei fatti siano «da rivedere le dichiarazioni del governo turco e le prime convinzioni espresse dal Vaticano, secondo cui l'uccisione non avrebbe risvolti politici e religiosi, fermo restando che, come ha detto Benedetto XVI nell'aereo in viaggio per Cipro, questo assassinio «non può essere attribuito alla Turchia e ai turchi, e non deve oscurare il dialogo».

LE TESTIMONIANZE - «Testimoni - scrive AsiaNews - affermano di aver sentito il vescovo gridare aiuto. Ma ancora più importante, è che essi hanno sentito le urla di Murat subito dopo l'assassinio». Secondo le fonti citate dall'agenzia, egli è salito sul tetto della casa è ha gridato: «Ho ammazzato il grande satana! Allah Akbar!». «Questo grido - sottolinea Asia News - coincide perfettamente con l'idea della decapitazione, facendo intuire che essa è come un sacrificio rituale contro il male. Ciò mette in relazione l'assassinio con i gruppi ultranazionalisti e apparentemente fondamentalisti islamici che vogliono eliminare i cristiani dalla Turchia». Secondo Asianews, «la presunta insanità del 26enne che da oltre quattro anni viveva a fianco del vescovo è ormai indifendibile». «Sono in pochi a credere allo squilibrio mentale dell'omicida», ha dichiarato da parte sua padre Domenico Bertogli, vicario generale di Anatolia. «La cosa non appare così semplice - ha spiegato il vice di Padovese in un'intervista diffusa dal Servizio Informazioen Religiosa - come si potrebbe pensare. Per questo abbiamo chiesto che si faccia piena luce su un omicidio che non può essere subito archiviato come opera di uno squilibrato. Un clichè che ricalca quello già visto in altri fatti analoghi». Ercan Eris, l'avvocato della Conferenza Episcopale Turca, sostiene che l'omicida non può essere diventato depresso in un giorno e che non esiste nessun rapporto sanitario che lo dichiari tale. Ormai è certo che il giovane è sano di mente. «Non c'è alcun certificato medico - riporta AsiaNews - che attesti la sua invalidità mentale. Negli ultimi tempi egli stesso diceva di essere depresso, ma ormai si pensa che questa fosse tutta una strategia per potersi difendere in seguito».

NUOVA TESI DIFENSIVA - Ercan Eris, l'avvocato della Conferenza Episcopale Turca, sostiene che l'omicida non può essere diventato depresso in un giorno e che non esiste nessun rapporto sanitario che lo dichiari tale. Ormai è certo che il giovane è sano di mente. «Non c'è alcun certificato medico - riporta AsiaNews - che attesti la sua invalidità mentale. Negli ultimi tempi egli stesso diceva di essere depresso, ma ormai si pensa che questa fosse tutta una strategia per potersi difendere in seguito». Secondo voci nella polizia inoltre, sembra che Murat ora stia offrendo una nuova giustificazione del suo gesto: monsignor Padovese sarebbe un omosessuale e lui, Murat, 26 anni, sarebbe la vittima, «costretta a subire abusi». La strategia difensiva dell'omicida è indirizzata cioè a sostenere l'ipotesi di un atto di «legittima difesa». Secondo esperti del mondo turco citati da AsiaNews, l'uccisione di monsignor Padovese mostra un'evoluzione delle organizzazioni dello «Stato profondo»: è la prima volta che essi mirano così in alto.

«TURCHIA, TERRA DI MARTIRIO» - E Ruggero Franceschini, vescovo di Smirne, che ha presieduto i funerali di monsignor Padovese oggi a Iskanderun lo ha definito «un martire». Nel corso dell'omelia, monsignor Franceschini ha affermato: «La tragica notizia della morte violenta di Monsignor Luigi Padovese ci ha lasciati sgomenti, incapaci di capire come potesse essere accaduta una cosa così orribile, soprattutto nei confronti di un Uomo di Chiesa, un Vescovo molto amico dei Turchi e della Turchia. Questa terra si conferma così, ancora una volta, luogo di martirio anche per chi la amava tanto».

CASTELLI: «IL CORAGGIO DELLA VERITA'» - Non mancano le reazioni dal mondo politico alle dichiarazioni dell'agenzia. Il viceministro della Lega Nord, Roberto Castelli sottolinea come AsiaNews sia la sola fonte di informazione ad avere «il coraggio di dire la verità» sulla morte di monsignor Padovese. «Invito a leggere attentamente il rapporto della agenzia Asianews, l'agenzia del Pontificio Istituto Missioni Estere, sulla uccisione del vescovo cattolico, monsignor Padovese. La ringrazio perché è l'unica voce che ha il coraggio di dire la verità», afferma Castelli.