Sharif El-Gamal, owner of the property slated for Ground Zero mega-mosque, explains it all for you

"I want people in New York who are undecided to know we're a part of this city..." -- Sharif Al-Gamal

Fitzgerald: Muslim Triumphalism: "It's Over. It's Over. We're Here. Get Used To It."

Georgie Anne Geyer, known for decades for her anti-Israel and pro-Arab views, has come out with an article on the New York mosque that is not, as one might have expected it would be, a defense of the Ground Zero mosque as an inoffensive and innocent "free exercise of religion," but, she rightly senses, a depiction of the mosque as something more suspect and more worrisome.

She shows en passant that she continues to believe, or at least pays lip service to, the myth of Cordoba, that is, the myth of an Islamic Spain where Christians and Jews lived under benign Muslim overlords, a splendid example of "Convivencia" - and one presumably with implications for the brave-new-world we are allowing to be created, if we do nothing to halt it, in Western Europe.

But is this "convivencia" stuff true? Was Montgomery Watt, the Anglican clergyman who was, as his former student Ibn Warraq testifies, philo-Islamic because he had a horror mainly of atheism, correct in his depiction of Islamic Spain? And what about Maria Rosa Menocal, with her Ornament of the World? You can read about her at this site. Was Cordoba, was Islamic Spain itself, a place where "Muslims, Christians, and Jews" all lived in splendid harmony? Apparently the Christians didn't feel so, because otherwise why would they have spent 500 years in attempting to throw back the Muslim invaders? And what about the Jews, who had no army? Well, consider the most famous of those Jews -- there is a statute of him, by the way, in Cordoba, in the Juderia. What did Maimonides think of Cordoba, where he lived, as a place where under Muslim rule Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived in "harmony"? In his "Epistle to Yemen," Maimonides described his experience. The Jews were treated so well? If so, why did Maimonides denounce the hideous treatment of Jews by Muslims in Spain, and why did Christians tirelessly engage in the Reconquista over 500 years?

But other than that conventional unwisdom about Cordoba, Georgie Ann Geyer appears to have come, at least somewhat, to her senses. It will be interesting to see if she can ever drop her anti-Israel animus. She was offended, and rightly, by the display of arrogance and contempt for the feelings of non-Muslims, demonstrated by the not-quite-as-suave-as-necessary Muslim spokesman who appeared on television to attack those who question the motives, the funding, the goals, the everything, of those behind the Ground-Zero Mosque:

One organization is the Cordoba Initiative, which has a good reputation as an Islamic group that wants to meet with Christians in an atmosphere reminiscent of an Islamic "Y." (It is named after the liberal Islamic caliphate in Cordoba, Spain, ruling from the eighth to the 15th centuries, which respected Christians and Jews -- a good sign.)

But no one has revealed where the $100 million for the mosque has come from, who is behind the idea, or who are the people leading the entire project. [...]

The so-named "spokesman" and "founder" for the Ground Zero Mosque initiative, interviewed on CNN, was far from courteously trying to convince other Americans of his group's good intentions. He was arrogant, smug and derisive of non-Muslim Americans. One came away from his interview feeling that he really wanted to, as the kids rather eloquently say, stick it to us.

Given these chasms of information -- and the attitude of the Muslims involved -- one can only be against this Ground Zero Mosque. The unequivocal fact is that the grounds where so many died so terribly is no place at this moment of history for any mosque....

And she ends her piece thus:

And here's perhaps the most important point. If the planners of this mosque, like the arrogant one on CNN, really consider themselves Americans, they would not bring up such an aberrant idea at such an emotional time, when the United States is fighting two wars against radical Islam, and when American Muslims remain a largely unknown quantity.

Last weekend, for instance, a conference of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community was scheduled to be held at the Dulles Expo Center near the capital, in Virginia, with 5,000 set to attend. The theme was: "Are Muslims required to obey non-Muslim governments?" The radical Hizb ut-Tahrir America (HTA) was also scheduled to hold a conference in Chicago earlier this month to hype the idea of spreading an Islamic state to the entire world, but it was suddenly canceled by the Marriott Oak Brook hotel for reasons unknown.

That these questions could even be asked among people who have taken citizenship oaths to defend the United States, and who enjoy all the benefits of this country, tells you that we must carefully observe the players to be sure we are playing with the same rules.

Keep in mind that there are few Christian churches, much less Jewish synagogues or other religious temples, anywhere in the Islamic world. Until Muslims are willing to provide for others, in countries where they are dominant, what they so arrogantly demand for themselves in the West, it would be the height of folly to allow such a dramatic and intrusive development as the Ground Zero Mosque.

But this note of "no one can say us nay" and "we are here to stay" and "we'll do what we want- if not right now, then soon enough, when our numbers and our power increase," is a theme that Muslims have been sounding for a long time, and quite deliberately. It is only recently that Infidels have noticed this theme, thanks to the Muslims' behavior toward non-Muslims all over the world. This behavior includes the many reported acts (and just how many similar acts do you think are never reported, that we never hear about?) of persecution and humiliation, and attacks on, and even murders of, non-Muslims in lands ruled by Muslims. It also includes the demands, each more outrageous than the next, for changes in the ways of life, in the laws and customs, of non-Muslim peoples and lands, into which - in a fit of nearly criminal negligence, Muslims in large numbers have been admitted and allowed to settle, by those who simply relied on pious assumptions about Islam. They had no real knowledge or understanding of either the ideology of the Total Belief-System of Islam, or of the goals of Jihad. It is only just now that many are prepared to listen carefully, and no longer to overlook such statements, and to begin to grasp how such attitudes arise naturally from the texts and tenets of Islam.

Take that Muslim "scholar" Tariq Ramadan. He is, in truth - see Frere Tariq by Caroline Fourest, which is now available in English -- a sly propagandist for Islam. He has had a chair specially endowed for him at Oxford by Arabs spending some of their oil-and-gas revenues. Oxford has done this to its shame and, one hopes, to its great and permanent dismay, once potential contributors, non-Arab and non-Muslim, find out about this bought-and-paid-for well-upholstered chair supplied to Tariq Ramadan. Listen closely to Tariq Ramadan. One of the things he keeps saying is the phrase: "It's over." Yes, he repeats it too: "It's over. It's over." What does he mean when he says that to opponents? He means that we Muslims are here, and what's more, there is nothing you can do about it, so don't even try to stop us in any way, and don't even think about halting our arrival, or dislodging us, or taking away the benefits we exploit or refusing to meet the demands that we make: "It's over. It's over."

This is a rhetorical weapon, the weapon of the triumphalist bully, attempting to demoralize Europeans into throwing up their hands in despair, and not being able to summon the will to halt Muslim immigration and then even to reverse it, through a series of intelligent, carefully-crafted, and perfectly-justified measures. No other group of immigrants poses anything like the implacable and permanent danger that Muslim immigrants so clearly pose to the political and legal institutions, the art, science, literature, freedoms, of the advanced West. That large-scale Muslim presence has created a situation for the indigenous non-Muslims (and for other, but non-Muslim, immigrants) that is far more unpleasant, expensive, and physically dangerous than would be the case without such a large-scale Muslim presence. No one should hearken to, though we all should listen to, the implied threats and menace underneath soft-spoken, but deeply sinister Tariq Ramadan with his "It's over. It's over."

One year ago, the city was buzzing when the newspapers published a letter by Bouchra Ismaili, a Rotterdam city councilman: "Listen up, crazy freaks, we're here to stay. You're the foreigners here, with Allah on my side I'm not afraid of anything. Take my advice: convert to Islam, and you will find peace."

It is not over. It is just now that people are educating themselves and waking up. Tariq Ramadan does not want that to even be considered as a possibility. He wants - and many other Muslims want - us to believe in historical inevitability, and in the inevitability of their triumph. This is exactly what Hitler and the Nazis believed; it is exactly what the Marxists believed. And it is, I'm afraid, present even among us, with those who obliquely invoke something called "History" as demanding this or requiring that, in that dangerous phrase that Obama likes to use: "getting on the right side of history." There is no "right side" of history. There is one damn thing after another, and some things are much more worrisome than other things, and require different kinds of analyses, a shouldering of different kinds of burdens. The historical inevitabilists, even in the weak or etiolated form of that "getting on the right side of history," are always dangerous, and especially so if they allow the tariq-ramadans of this world to keep the peoples of Western Europe from rousing themselves and admitting that over the past few decades they made colossal errors in their immigration policies, and in their domestic policies that have permitted, and even encouraged, Muslim colonies within the West to expand, and to do so at the expense - in every sense - of the indigenous non-Muslims.

But the halting of any growth in, and the peaceful, legal, and orderly reversal of the size of, the Muslim presence in Europe, is exactly what people are coming to understand has to be achieved. And achieved with or without the understanding, help, and support of the benighted American government, at least as presently constituted. (And Tariq Ramadan's suavity, by the way, can turn to hysteria in a New York minute, and I have seen or heard it happen repeatedly. In this respect he is like a great many of the seemingly smoothest Muslim propagandists, who when challenged by the well-prepared falls apart, and starts to rant, in tel qu'en lui-meme fashion.)

Listen carefully to Muslim rhetoric in this country and elsewhere in the West. It is always not-quite-what-it-seems-to-be: we hear, for example, the phrase "we are here to stay." What does that ambiguous phrase mean? Is that a rousing sign of loyalty to the American political and legal system? Or is it, rather, an aggressive and defiant expression -- we're here, we're not going anywhere, and we will do exactly as we please, in putting relentless pressure on the American legal and political system, on its educational system, on its social understandings, and will never give up, and don't think about trying to stop us -- because "we're here to stay" and the lands that, for now, you possess do not really belong to you, but belong to Allah and to the "best of peoples," that is, the Muslims. You have only temporary possession, perhaps not even a life estate; the fee simple belongs to us, the Umma, the people who received rightly the message, from the Seal of the Prophets, that Perfect Man (al-insan al-kamil), Muhammad. And while some Muslims say no Infidel laws should be obeyed, others, more prudent, think that for now such a demonstration would not be in Islam's best interests. They take a different tack: we will obey your silly manmade Infidel laws insofar as they either do not contradict any part of the Shari'a. And they then add, in a sub-rosa coda meant to be understood only by fellow Muslims: "and only because it makes more sense for now to temporarily do so, in the same spirit of Muhammad treating with the Meccans at Hudaibiyya, that is, insofar as our present relative weakness in the West requires that we temporarily must, in order to bide our time and fortify further our position."

Earlier in July there was a big furor in Great Britain about another planned mosque. There have been so many furors, so much anguish caused by Muslims all over as they conduct their campaign of conquest-from-within, one whose goals the less-prudent or more certain-of-triumph among them have not hidden:

DEFENCE chiefs are fighting plans to build a giant mosque overlooking Britain's top military academy. They claim the new centre poses a security threat to budding Army officers at world-famous Sandhurst.

The building would have a huge dome and two 100ft minarets towering over the soldiers' parade ground.

The minarets will be sited within 400 yards of the Royal Military Academy in Surrey....

Campaign leader Alan Kirkland said: "A lot of people are questioning the size of the minarets which will overlook the whole of the academy."

Local MEP Nigel Farage said: "I am appalled at such an idea. Many fear it could pose a grave security risk."

A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: "Sandhurst has put in an objection on the grounds of security."

Look at the comments by Muslims in any controversy, whether over this or that mosque, whether they are an affront to our sentiments, as with the Ground-Zero mosque, or a real threat to security, as with the mosque-and-minarets proposed to overlook the grounds of Sandhurst. You will find, once the slyly sweet-reason blague is not accepted at once, quite a different tone, one of triumphalism. A Jihad Watch poster ("dumbeldore's army") brought to my (and others') attention the comments that accompanied this article. "Dumbledore's Army" describes those comments thus:

There are plenty from native non-Muslims who have 'woken up' and are most alarmed and angry; but there are also some truly appalling remarks by obvious Mohammedan spin-doctors and brazen liars...as well as sneering Muslim triumphalists, boasting and taunting.

The most telling of those is this one, by an identified Muslim, from which the sneering triumphalism blasts like heat from a furnace. I'm reproducing it here, because it's a classic of its kind.

"get over it. This is multicultural Britian in case you haven't noticed. Muslims are here to stay. If you don't like it, you should leave."

"There are not enough Mosques as it is.

"There are churches everywhere. We should be able to have just as many places to worship as all the other religions have."

"We have the right to do what ever our religion says"

"and there isn't a single thing you can do about it."

Think about that. It connects to Tariq Ramadan's "it's over. It's over." It connects to the predictions made by Houari Boumedienne, the ruler of Algeria, back in 1974, at the U.N., when he said that Europe would be conquered not through outright military conquest, but "through the wombs of our women." That triumphalist theme has been repeated by so many Muslim clerics, Muslim political figures, Muslim journalists, in the press, on the radio, on television - see that indispensable site, www.MEMRI.org, for many examples.

And you who come to this site often, are not surprised. You are not surprised, as perhaps Georgie Ann Geyer was surprised, at the arrogance and contempt shown by that Muslim spokesman on television:

The so-named "spokesman" and "founder" for the Ground Zero Mosque initiative, interviewed on CNN, was far from courteously trying to convince other Americans of his group's good intentions. He was arrogant, smug and derisive of non-Muslim Americans. One came away from his interview feeling that he really wanted to, as the kids rather eloquently say, stick it to us.

Nor are you surprised when you learn, from Geyer's same piece, that the Ahmadiya Muslims - yes, the so-called famously "moderate" Ahmadiya Muslims, who are even considered in Pakistan not to be real Muslims, so unorthodox are their beliefs said to be - held a meeting just outside Washington, D.C.:

Last weekend, for instance, a conference of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community was scheduled to be held at the Dulles Expo Center near the capital, in Virginia, with 5,000 set to attend. The theme was: "Are Muslims required to obey non-Muslim governments?"

No, you know. But you have a task. You must make sure that everyone you know also knows what you have come, slowly, and with effort, to understand about the Total Belief-System of Islam, and that those others, in turn, having properly informed themselves, will begin to inform, and alarm, still others. Our government is not helping. Those who think they know better have so far proven that they are far behind many whom they presume to instruct and protect; they are not helping.

So it's up to you. It's all up to you.

And if you do not accept this task, in the United States, in Canada, in Australia, in the countries of Western Europe, then -- I'm afraid -- "it's over."

Posted by Hugh on July 25, 2010 1

Well one thing about El-Gamal is true-he's as smooth as diarrhea.

A guy named Poonawalla shouldn't be making fun of anyone.

Mr. El-Gamal:

Everything I need to know about Islam I learned at the age of thirteen on September 5th 1972.

Go spit up a rope.

Kenny Solomon
Senior Expediter
The 72 Virgins Club Travel Agency
Offices throughout America in all 57 states.

Boycott all Muhammaden businesses; gas stations, food marts, dentists, doctors, etc.

Putting money into the hands of Muhammadens is treasonous against humanity. We are directly and/or indirectly responsible for financing this crime. We must withdraw our funding from every avenue to prevent the expansion of Muhammadism.

These 'Americans' claim to be so sensitive, so caring, and such loyal Americans but they don't give a damn that the majority of New Yorkers and Americans are opposed to their proposed mosque and shrine to the 9/11 martyrs. If there was an ounce of sincerity in their tepid platitudes and insipid rhetoric, they would crawl off to their reptilian lairs and hatch a new, less grandiose scheme to honor their beloved shahids. But they won't. They are arrogant, supremacist muslims and 9/11 was their first big victory. They shall have their triumphalist shrine to that victory.

They will build their islamic hovel with the help and cooperation of the dhimmis and useful idiots in high places, and they will gloat and rub it in our faces on the tenth anniversary of 9/11. It no longer matters what we, the people, want in America. We are ignored while those entrusted to represent us systematically destroy our country. If 90% of the people in America opposed this mosque, the people who could stop it would not. I expect Obama will be the master of ceremonies on ribbon cutting day, sharing the stage with radical insurgents from CAIR, the muslim brotherhood, and numerous other muslim fifth column revolutionaries in America. It will be a sad and nauseating event.

Interesting comment, Hugh. Do you have a web site so I can read more?

Robert - you're a rock on which Islam will founder.

This is all self-serving (or cult serving) nonsense.

There is nothing that can justify this "Insult Architecture".The people behind this project could have proposed a genuine inter-faith centre with representatives from the Hindu, Judaic, Christian, Buddhist, Bahai and Islamic faiths all controlling its use on a basis of equality. THAT would have shown good faith.

But no - they want to build a Mosque...a big one...right there...pure and simple...call it what they will...a Mosque, directed at the heart of 9-11. Why???

This guy looks like a freaking vampire. I almost expect him to summon a pack of werewolves to bite my face off while Bill Compton starts screaming "SOOKIE!" really loudly.

"Let me say this: I am one of many who believed that Islam was a religion of peace before it was hijacked by terrorists."

Right! Islam was once a religion of peace...before it was Islam...before Mohammad and his gang of terrorist thugs destroyed the 360 gods and goddesses in the Ka'aba and slaughtered the Quraysh people.
The Quraysh peacefully worshipped the sun, the moon, and the stars.
There were 360 minor gods representing the days of the year.
Then along came the terrorists from Medina, forcing their Islamic ideology down their throats or cutting them in the desert. They kept the moon, the Kaaba and their fertility rights but killed, destroyed and erased history in a flash and that's the way it has been for the last 1400 years.
There was peace and then along cam Mohammad(pbuh).

Here here! Spread the good word to the ignorant!

Spencerism is the only force that can combat Islamism!

"serving others"

This is altruistic behavior and therefore immoral in my book. Then again I am an objectivist.

The Saudi Connection

We now return to the remarkable World Economic Forum web page that details Feisal Abdul Rauf’s financial supporters.
http://www2.weforum.org/en/initiatives/c100/Projects/index.html

By now any school boy knows that Feisal Abdul Rauf is funded in part by the odious Saudi prince Al Walid.

The second patron listed at the WEF web site is the Xenel Corporation.

The Xenel Corp. was in the news about 8 years ago in connection when its then CEO Abdullah Alireza was connected to Osama Bin Laden.

The Xenel Corp. was in the midst of developing its Xentury City in Orlando Florida when scandal hit.

Here is how Xentury City describes itself:

“Xentury’s planners set out two decades ago to create a “city within a city,” where luxury, imagination and culture dwell. Careful planning and a commitment to enduring excellence provide the ideal development location and position Xentury | The Global Resort City as the standard for 21st century high-end commercial, retail and resort development.” http://xenturycity.com/index.php?page_id=6

Think Feisal Abdul Rauf’s Cordoba House only on a much larger scale.

It would take twenty years to place all the components of this very ambitious, maybe even ostentatious, development.

As part of the process, when Xentury was approved for the construction of a large convention center, the local Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees Union did a background check which happens “whenever a new hotel project develops in a market where the union has members.”
http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/2002/10/21/story1.html

The background check revealed “information that appears to indirectly tie Xentury's parent company to "less than desirable individuals, businesses and organizations." “

Xenel CEO Abdullah Alireza was linked to Bin Laden as follows:

“• One major shareholder in the Al Shamal bank founded by Osama bin Laden and others is the Faisal Bank.
• A trust holds an ownership interest in the Faisal bank.
• One member of the board of supervisors of the trust is Abdullah Alireza.
• Alireza is also the managing partner and a major shareholder of Xenel Industries, the parent company of Xentury City.”
http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/2002/10/21/story1.html

I know what you are thinking; "How far is far enough? 3 banks?, 7 banks?, 10 banks?"

How close is too close?

To complicate matters, Abdullah Alireza is very well connected, and very wealthy.

The Xenel business was founded in 1973 by the descendants of one of the oldest trading houses in the Middle East.
It is a Saudi diversified holding company for the various businesses of the House of Alireza established in 1845.

Five former American ambassadors to Saudi Arabia, as well, as the Governor of Florida, and the White House interceded on Alireza’s behalf, but it didn’t work.

On December 12, 2002 Osceola County Commission denied Xentury City the right to develop Osceola's Convention Center complex.
http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/2002/12/16/editorial2.html

But, the story continues.

Although Abdullah Alireza has since left Xenel to become Saudi Minister of State, his brother, Kahlid has taken his place as CEO of Xenel.

Both Kahlid Alireza, and the Xenel corporation appear on the “Golden Chain” list

”or a list purported sponsors of al Qaeda that was seized in March 2002 raid by Bosnian police authorities of the premises of the Benevolence International Foundation in Sarajevo.

The list includes at least 20 top Saudi and Gulf State financial sponsors including bankers, businessmen, and former ministers. Part of the list included computer file titles "Tarekh Osama" or "Osama History", but the appellation "Golden Chain" itself is due to al Qaeda defector Jamal al-Fadl, who vouched for its authenticity; the FBI later also pronounced the document as genuine”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Chain

“The Benevolence International Foundation (Benevolence International Fund in Canada, Bosanska Idealna Futura in Bosnia) (BIF) was a purported nonprofit charitable trust based in Saudi Arabia. It was a front for al-Qaeda and is now banned worldwide by the United Nations Security Council Committee 1267. It had already been banned by the US Department of the Treasury.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolence_International_Foundation

Returning to the present we find Feisal Abdul Rauf, formerly an Imam, and undistinguished writer, now a Manhatten real estate developer, is financed by a Saudi Prince who offered Rudy Guillani 10,000$ on condition he admit that America had deserved the 911 attacks.

Feisal Abdul Rauf is also financed by Xenel , and CEO Kahlid Alireza both of which are mentioned in connection with the financing of Al Qaeda.

It is probably because of things like this that Rep. Peter King has called for an investigation.
http://peteking.house.gov/video2.shtml

''...and we cannot forget that we are a part of this city, a MAJOR part of this city...''

Interesting, in the previous thread about the protesting of the mosk, I thought this smug, arrogant creep was the Jewish lawyer Shelly Friedman. My God, how have we let such enemies into our midst? And emboldened them by appeasement and kowtowing? Sorry to say but for this to happen our Western society is very sick and needs mental health treatment. We're in the process of suiciding our culture to the Barbarians, just like Western Europe.

"She was buried in the rubble when the towers collapsed, but she was dug out, thank God, and went right back to work." - Rauf

That's an obvious total lie. She's a "close, Muslim friend," Rauf? OK - then, let's have her name. Let her be interviewed.

RS or PG should ask for this "close, Muslim friend's" name, and catch the Muslim liar in his pathetic lie.

Park51 will be a community center promoting tolerance and understanding through three types of programs: arts and culture, education and recreation.

1.Art...finger painting...

2. Culture...learning why Arabs are the best of people with the best features and the best hair...

3. Education...Basic...Learning how to say Shahada in Arabic...

4. Advanced...Quran studies in Islamic supremacy, the glories of Mahound and Allah's command to jihad...

5. Recreation...Swimming pools and tennis courts for beginners...Firing range...martial arts classes for those who successfully completed 3/4...

I don't trust them, I don't trust them, I don't trust them....a Buddhist temple, synagogue, church, Atheism study center, Jain temple, ANYTHING I would donate money to right now (I'm Catholic), but not this. Please, please, will someone stop this!? Where IS our Churchill?

"Serving others"... sounds like that famous book "To Serve Man"?

You've just entered the Twilight Zone, where we will be 'serving' Muslims in all their demands?

Motives? A 7th century barbaric Warlord's creed to enslave into 'servicing others', especially the women. Don't you want to believe him? It's just a Sharia-cook-book. What's the problem?

To provide "services"? Arts/culture, education...?

Great, sign me up! First, I'd like to see the film "Schindler's List." Then I'd like classes on the Holocaust (given by scholars, with actual surviving footage from the concentration camps), on the Protocols of Zion, and the history of the Quran. Please advise when these classes are available! I can't wait! Thank You.

"we're doing our part as Americans to make our city and country stronger and safer."

So then you'll be locking it from the outside once everyone's inside?

@Courreges W
there is precious little time left to wait for leaders of that stamp, so WE as individuals must ALL re-invest ourselves with the mantle of spirituality, gird our loins and take our stations.

Accommodating the camel led to the Arab being ousted from his tent. On a wider scale something similar has been seen in the "Islamic" zone from Morocco to Malaysia. The long term projections can be quite effectively obscured by posturing in the moment at hand.

GET THIS STRAIGHT ELGAMAL: WE DO NOT WANT YOUR MOSQUE, WE DO NOT WANT YOUR 'MALE ONLY' IDEALS THAT ARE BARBARIC AGAINST WOMEN, WE DO NOT NEED TO BE EDUCATED ABOUT YOUR CULT
THAT YOU CALL RELIGION, WE DO NOT WANT YOU TO THROW SALT ON OUR EXISTING WOUNDS AFTER BEING ATTACKED BY MUSLIMS ON 9/11,
WE DO NOT BELIEVE YOU AT ALL. WE KNOW WHEN RADICAL ISLAM/&
MUSLIMS FEEL THEY HAVE CONQUERED A PLACE-THEY BUILD A MOSQUE
ON IT......YOU ARE PROVING THIS FACT, BY WANTING TO BUILD ONE AT GROUND ZERO, WHERE 'WE LOST AMERICANS, THAT YOUR CULT
AND MEMBERS DANCED IN THE STREETS-CHEERING. SO TAKE YOUR MOSQUE AND BUILD ANOTHER IN 'YOUR COUNTRY' NOT OURS'.
YOU HAVE 2,300 ALREADY(TOO MANY) IN THE USA-HOW MANY OF OUR CHURCHES ARE ALLOWED IN MECCA? HOW ABOUT SAUDI ARABIA?

GET THE HELL OUT OF N.Y. YOU AND YOUR MOSQUE ARE NOT WELCOME AND YOUR BARBARIC TREATMENT OF FEMALES IS APPALLING.
WHAT YOUR CULT DOES TO LITTLE GIRLS IS BARBARIC--SO TEACH YOUR OWN, TO RESPECT THEIR WOMEN/LITTLE GIRLS IF YOU THINK YOU NEED TO TEACH ABOUT YOUR CULT. WE AREN'T INTERESTED.

BTW: You WANT to get a real foothold in the USA, as your cult makes demands JUST as they do in the UK. Hopefully the UK will wake up and realize the "takeover of their country that is being tried"....we here in the US, don't want your 7th century, barbaric ways to be instilled here-
we live in the 21st century. Even though you are awash in cash/oil, you think you can SPREAD your cult/religion(laughable to call it such, as it is a CULT) we will NEVER succumb to your pressure, even though you have one of your OWN in our Whitehouse-a Muslim. He bows to your Saudi King,
but NOT to a White Woman, Queen Elizabeth...says a lot, doesn't it?

As well as protesting night and day against this impending piece of 'insult architecture' (to quote a poster above), I suggest a further, positive course of action.

There were two little churches right next to Ground Zero.

One survived, one was destroyed. Both could become a focus of spiritual resistance to the mosque.

The survivor was the deeply historic Episcopal (originally Anglican) St Paul's Chapel, which survived; it was just far enough away; though it was enveloped in a roaring dust cloud.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0209/st_pauls/online_extra.html

It provided a place of refuge and shelter for mourners and rescue workers and cleanup workers during the days and weeks after the attack.

New York City jihadwatchers should make a point of visiting St Paul's and making a donation to their ongoing ministry; and Christians from in-town or out of town, who are engaging in protests against the mosque, might like to make a practice of meeting to pray at St Paul's, first.

Fill it with life and energy. See if you can find out whether the clergy and congregation are aware of Jihad; if they are not, and if - which heaven forbid - they are dhimmified enough to support the obscene mosque proposal, gently do your best to undeceive them (by, for example, discreetly leaving about the place the informative leaflets re Islam that are put out by The Barnabas Fund).

The church which was destroyed was the tiny and historic St Nicholas's Greek Orthodox church

http://www.nyc-architecture.com/GON/GON002.htm

which was crushed and buried under tonnes of rubble as the South Tower collapsed.

http://www.stnicholasnyc.com/

The photo on that link shows the final moments of St Nicholas's taken by Eric O'Connell only minutes before the South Tower came down, is one of the most haunting pictures of the 21st century.

If you go to this link - a NY Times article - you will find on the left hand side another version of the same picture, which can be clicked to enlarge. (I have an idea I've seen a better version of this, but have not been able to find it yet; this will have to do, for now).

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/nyregion/03trade.html?_r=1&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/B/Bagli,%20Charles%20V

(There is a painting that no-one has done yet - but here's the idea: an image of the collapsing tower, and in the midst of it, rising out of the swirling dust and falling masonry, his feet on the place where his church used to be, the shining figure of St Nicholas in his bishop's regalia, holding out his arms to the people who are falling from and with the tower).

"On September 11th, the entire weight of World Trade Center Tower 2 came down on St. Nicholas Church, completely destroying the building and its contents. Only a handful of damaged icons and religious items were found amongst the rubble.

"Luckily, no one in the Church was hurt when the Towers collapsed. The caretaker and an electrician managed to escape only minutes before the tragedy. "(!!)

The wikipedia entry says - "A report in a Greek-Orthodox newspaper said that before the South Tower collapsed, part of the airplane's landing gear was seen resting atop the church. Also, body parts were spotted on and around the church before the collapse of the tower, presumably the remains of those who had jumped or fallen from the towers."

The congregation intend to rebuild; unfortunately, they were persuaded to sell the original lot (which I for one think is a terrible pity: once the site was cleared and made safe, they should have been *encouraged* and assisted to rebuild, on the very same hallowed ground, as fast as possible, it would have been a perfect gesture of defiance toward the Jihad), and are to rebuild on a site across the street.

I think they should be *flooded* with donations great and small, and receive all possible support and encouragement in their wrestling with the City's bureaucracy.

Christians taking part in anti-mosque rallies and protests should make a point of visiting 1. the intended site of the new St Nicholas's and 2. the original site, to pray and to bless both locations and invoke divine protection and help. And it will annoy the Muslims no end, for they *hate* it when they have to watch non-Muslims practising their non-Muslim faith in public and out loud, instead of cowering and whispering for fear of the Mohammedan Mob.

St Nicholas's *must* rise again; preferably with a very tall bell tower, oh, maybe 15 stories high.

The Muslims are planning to build an enormous mosque.

Well: besides stopping them from doing that, while the Resistance is at it, let's make sure that, even *nearer* to Ground Zero, there will be a magnificent Greek Orthodox Church of St Nicholas. Taller than the projected mosque. Preferably with a LOUD ring of bells! O St Nicholas's, you *must* have bells!

Something else to think about.

There is a protest planned by SIOA for September 11.

There are three other dates that also suggest themselves as times for protesters to gather at and focus on this site where so many died, and for non-Muslims, especially Christians, to affirm publicly who and what *they* are.

1. The Feast of St Michael and All Angels on September 29th. St Michael is often thought of as psychopompos, the one who leads the souls of the redeemed into Paradise.

2. October 31, November 1st and November 2 - All Hallow's Eve, All Saints', and All Souls - the feast sometimes called 'The Day of the Dead' in Mexican Catholic culture. That is the *perfect* day on which to gather at Ground Zero, hold vigil, and defy Evil. It might be worth finding out whether the congregation at St Paul's will be specifically remembering the murdered of September 11 in their services on those three days. Make sure they get a huge roll-up. And light a candle in memory of Oriana Fallaci, whom the attacks galvanised into writing her fiery swan-song - her 'wake up, world!' rallying call and warning re. the Global Jihad, the trilogy 'The Rage and the Pride', 'the Force of Reason' and 'The Apocalypse'.

3. The Feast of St Nicholas, on December 6 (let's remember that New York was once New Amsterdam, and that Nicholas is the patron saint of the Dutch, of sailors, of children; and that one of his legendary miracles involved raising three murdered boys to life; and that the American 'Santa Claus' is from the Dutch Sinter Klaas - he came into American popular culture from the Dutch).

Perhaps a March of Witness could be held on any or all of these dates, in which participants would beat the bounds of the entire Ground Zero site, as close as is officially permitted: beginning at or near the old St Nicholas's site and ending at the new St Nicholas's site, visiting St Paul's en route -and *also* visiting, very pointedly, the proposed Mosque site, at which point the marchers might let their feelings and their objections be made known.

The Mosque will be built no matter how much you Islamistprobic Hater will rally against it. First not to built it would be anti-america.

Why isn't the Ground Zero mosque a binding referendum in New York?
It should be.

Maybe all muslimphobic people should get educated and study what Islam is all about. Islam does not prech hatred or violence towards any one especially innocent people. just because and hand full of stupid people did a crime that is so far from the islamic beliefs and ideologies thoses people involved are not considered muslims. After the 9/11 tradgedy over a MILLION MUSLIMS died over seas. around QUARTER OF A MILLION US, CANADIAN, BRITISH SOILDERS DIED in americas so called war on terror. Who is really winning this senseless war? Iraq and Afghanistan people suffering everyday for a act they did not commit. When will the blood shed stop? when will the world be in peace? answer all you islamphobic people are saying is prob when all 1.5 billion muslims die. If so maybe after the building of this mosque/community center get done you will get the education and views of true muslims and not what you see on all your propganda news stations that you watch and worship teaches you.

Islam is a religion that doesn't allow for tolerance. Case in point ... most if not all suicide bombers today are Islamic.