Perhaps predictably, the Landmarks Commission hearing today to consider landmark status for 45 Park Place, the proposed site of the Islamic supremacist mega-mosque overlooking Ground Zero, was about much more than just whether the building at 45 Park Place merited landmark status or not. It quickly became a public forum on Islam, Muslims in America, and the appropriateness of a huge mosque at Ground Zero.
The moderator of the hearing, Robert Tierney, explained at the outset that this was a hearing to give people a forum to speak on whether 45 Park Place should be designated a landmark. He read from the relevant law, which stipulated that a property had to have special architectural or historical value to be designated a landmark. Then an aide read a summary of the building's history and features, clearly situating the Commission hearing as a consideration of the question of whether the Renaissance Italian palazzo-style features of 45 Park Place warranted landmark status. Tierney explained that no decision would be made today, but that those who had signed up to speak would be heard, and that others who didn't get to speak could submit statements to the Commission by mail, email or fax by July 20. (Landmarks Preservation Commission, Municipal building, 1 Centre Street, 9th floor, New York City, N.Y. 10007.)
Tierney announced that Shelly Friedman, the counsel for the owner of the property (i.e., the group behind the mega-mosque), would speak first, followed by some people he had lined up to make presentations. Friedman noted that although the property had been designated for consideration as a landmark in 1989, the owner hadn't understood that when he bought the property. That's why, Friedman said, they had asked that a hearing be put on the calendar and landmark status considered and rejected. He asserted that the Commission had considered 45 Park Place for landmark status many times since 1989 as part of various historical districts, but that it was never ultimately included in any of them. He said that the building shared many architectural features with other buildings in the area, and thus was not unique.
So far the meeting was still on topic. But Friedman was just the first speaker. He was followed by Sherif El-Gamal, who identified himself as one of the site's owners "since 2009." He said that there had been no evidence of the Commission's interest in the property in the five years that it took him to buy it -- and that he bought it for the purpose of replacing it with another structure. I thought that was interesting; apparently plans for this mega-mosque go back to at least 2005.
Anyway, after that El-Gamal ran the meeting off the rails. "As a Muslim American and a businessman," he said, "I am proof of the American Dream." He spoke about the need for a place in New York for people to learn about "Muslim heritage." And he said, "Being a Muslim and serving our fellow citizens goes hand in hand," which, given the dishonesty and pro-Sharia elements behind this mosque initiative, reminded me of the old Twilight Zone episode, "To serve man" (but I resisted the impulse to shout out, "It's a cookbook!").
El-Gamal's exercise in Islamic civic boosterism opened the floodgates, turning the meeting into a public discussion of the appropriateness of building a triumphal mega-mosque at Ground Zero, rather than a narrow discussion of the appropriateness of landmark status for 45 Park Place. El-Gamal was followed by another one of Friedman's speakers, Nathan Riddle of the AKRF Environmental Consultant Firm, who asserted that 45 Park Place had no unique history and no unique design, and thus did not merit landmark status, but then it was back to more on Islam and Muslims from Mufazzar Chisti of the NYU School of Law, who announced that he was married to a Jewish woman and had two children who considered themselves both Jewish and Muslim, and that New York needed Cordoba House (the name of the proposed mega-mosque) as a place where people of all faiths could gather.
Since Friedman's speakers had already gone off-topic and raised the question of Islam and the appropriateness of a mega-mosque at Ground Zero, turnabout was fairplay. Sam Nunberg of the American Center for Law and Justice, Attorney Jack Lester, and the redoubtable freedom fighter Barbara Paolucci from Staten Island argued that the site should be a war memorial, since the landing gear from one of the 9/11 hijacked planes crashed into the roof there, and that a building very similar to 45 Park Place, 311 Broadway, had been designated a landmark, so why not 45 Park Place?
Then I spoke. I started by saying that I shared the view that some others had already enunciated, that this was supposed to be a hearing on the landmark status of 45 Park Place, not about what good citizens Muslims were and how much New York needed an Islamic "interfaith" center. But since that discussion had not been stopped and was thus apparently deemed relevant, it was also relevant that the Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, leader of the mega-mosque project, was pro-Sharia -- a system of law that mandated discrimination against women and non-Muslims, and extinguished the freedom of speech and freedom of conscience. It was also relevant, I said, that he had been dishonest about his funding sources, saying in English that the mosque would be funded by American Muslims, and saying in Arabic that funding would come from Muslim nations. It was further relevant that he had declined to denounce Hamas as a terrorist organization, and that he had helped fund the jihad flotilla that was trying to take arms into Israel. I closed by pointing out that Riddle had said that the building had no unique historical value, but that it did, because it was the only building into which part of a 9/11 plane had crashed, and as such should be a war memorial. A Communist (really! At the Staten Island mosque hearing he actually shouted, "Workers of the world, unite!") started shouting that I was a bigot, to which I responded that it was not bigotry to point out dishonesty and subversion, and that the Commission should consider carefully whether or not it was being lied to by the mosque proponents.
Another speaker claimed that opposition to the mosque was simply "Islamophobia," drawing an angry reaction from the crowd (about 200 people were there, with about 70-80% opposing the mosque). Other speakers began to grow repetitive, so I got up to leave. There was another interesting incident before I left, which I will relate later, but it was tangential, albeit revealing. The hearing had all the appearance of a polite charade designed to satisfy legal niceties on the way to a foregone conclusion. Probably the only thing that can stop the mega-mosque now is the power of public opinion, brought to bear against the dhimmi authorities who have no idea what they're getting themselves -- and New York -- into.
The hearing had all the appearance of a polite charade designed to satisfy legal niceties on the way to a foregone conclusion.
Exactly what I was expecting.
Let's just wait and hope for the best, I guess.
" . . . and that he [Feisal Abdul Rauf] had helped fund the jihad flotilla that was trying to take arms into Israel."
Interesting. Do you have a source for that assertion?
Thank you for Jihadwatch!
livingengine:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/imam_unmosqued_0XbZMwCvHAVdRZEKgx29AK?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=
Thank you, Robert and Pamela.
I second that.
Since the topic of Sharia was introduced in this hearing and this thread, I thought readers should be aware of this interesting developement from Europe.
The Baron at GOV has a recent posting on a movement with an interesting new approach, Alliance to STOP Sharia.
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/07/alliance-to-stop-sharia.html#readfurther
Here is an excerpt,
[begin]
Q: You seem to assert that a ban against Sharia will be a force for the liberation of Muslims, as well as for non-Muslims. Is this correct ?
A: Absolutely! In a democratic country each citizen is granted a full array of rights and liberties, he has the right to live his life as a free human being provided that he doesn’t threaten others’ right and liberties.
Why should we tolerate that Sharia preachers/activists actively work at the destruction of our neighbours’ rights and liberties by indoctrination, social pressure, and more often than not physical violence?
The “Muslim community” (umma) is a Sharia-derived concept binding individuals in a “community” with specific customs and obligations (sharia law). This concept has absolutely no validity — either you are a citizen or you are not; all the rest is irrelevant.
A total ban on Sharia will help to protect citizens of Muslim faith from those who insidiously try to bind them to the Sharia’s mental slavery. Our democratic societies are offering the fabulous gift of freedom to every citizen of Muslim faith willing to accept it. It’s our collective duty to maintain the conditions allowing ourcitizens to break the yoke of an alien and barbaric law.
Getting rid of Sharia will protect us too, because Sharia concerns non-Muslims too.
Sharia heavily promotes discrimination, hatred, deception, and violence against non-Muslims, kuffar. Sharia creates social unrest and tensions leading to urban semi-insurrectional situations when mixed with social and immigration issues.
Everyone will enjoy a better life without Sharia, everyone.
[end]
When more Americans know more about Sharia, the more we will appreciate the far-sightedness of the Oklahoma legislature which has authorized for its Nov.2010 ballot a measure asking OKies if they wish to change their state constitution to expressly deny the application of Sharia. The sponsoring legislators are truly doing freedom's work.
More states need to inoculate themselves as well from Sharia and its thin wedges. I will begin the process here in my own, incredibly liberal state.
Probably the only thing that can stop the mega-mosque now is the power of public opinion, brought to bear against the dhimmi authorities who have no idea what they're getting themselves -- and New York -- into.
There's two other things that could also stop the thing from being built.
All trade unions refuse to work at the site, preventing any non-union personnel from entering as well............ Yeah, right. Like that's gonna happen.
The additional way, well..... I'll leave that to your imagination.
Kenny Solomon
Senior Expediter
The 72 Virgins Club Travel Agency
Offices throughout all 57 states.
"and that New York needed Cordoba House (the name of the proposed mega-mosque) as a place where people of all faiths could gather."
So you want a place where all faiths can gather together, right? That's important to islam is it? These people should win an award for being disingenuous. Mecca? Medina? These cities ringing any bells? You know, islam's two holiest cities, the ones with prohibitions against non-muslims even visiting there?
I don't know what makes me more angry: the fact that they are trying to build the mosque at all or that they think we are so stupid as to believe all this islamic kumbaya balderdash!!
Thank you, Mr. Spencer for replying to my comment. I know you are very busy.
Although, it would not surprise me if Feisal Abdul Rauf helped fund the flotilla, the NY Post story does not say that. It only says he is a member of the Perdana Global Peace Group.
Feisal Abdul Rauf’s disarming manner, but fundamentally hostile message is creepy, and at this point I am ready to believe almost anything about him, but as far as I know, there is no proof he funded the flotilla.
BTW -- Do you know if Roland Shirk will be doing a piece on Feisal Abdul Rauf? May I suggest a dialogue between the Imam, and Santa Claus where FAR is explaining how Christmas is just like Ramadan, if you only think about it in the right way.
Thank you for your reply. Thank you for what you are doing.
All the best.
I love the Twilight Zone reference, and have used it my self when discussing the Islam, the Quran and the MC/PC ideology. I admire your restraint, and imagine your tongue resembled steak tartare after the landmark meeting.
livingengine:
Well, you're reading it and I'm reading it, but that looks like funding to me.
So sad this atrocity is actually happening. I feel a very strong Swiftian outrage at human folly coming on.
Here is the "Contact the Mayor" form (Bloomberg) if anyone's interested in doing so:
http://www.nyc.gov/portal/site/nycgov/menuitem.bd08ee7c7c1ffec87c4b36d501c789a0/index.jsp?doc_name=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nyc.gov%2Fhtml%2Fmail%2Fhtml%2Fmayor.html
And thank you for your report from the front lines, RS.
Are there enough people opposed to this monstrous thing, to be able to take turns sitting-in outside the proposed mosque site, if necessary, 24/7?
To vary the protest, get up and walk around the block containing the site, if that is possible. Even if, at any given time, it's only one person with a sandwich board or placard or banner, or with a folding chair and a basket of leaflets, it will make an impression if it happens *at the same time every day*. Even if it's only a few New York City jihadwatchers who work within easy striking distance, using their lunch hour to stroll or ride there, sit for ten or twenty minutes politely engaging with passers-by, or doing the 'walk around', then beetling off back to work: day after day, it will get attention. If you're a New York jihadwatcher who is not tied to a 9 to 5 schedule - you're a mum at home, you're a retiree, you're a disabled veteran (veterans would be excellent publicity value) - you could take part. If you have a dog, take your dog along. Put a sign on your dog's jacket - a few suggested one-liners - 'Mohammed hated dogs. Muslims hate dogs. Sharia says 'no dogs as pets'.
Those of a praying sort could pray, and occasionally sing, conspicuously: Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, thus violating sharia which prohibits non-Muslims from praying or singing in public in the hearing of Muslims. Catholics could have a little bell and ring it for the Angelus. On the weekend, have a public reading aloud of Oriana Fallaci's 'The Rage and the Pride'.
Make a point of visiting the site of St Nicholas's, and the little Episcopalian church, St Paul's Chapel
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0209/st_pauls/online_extra.html
which is not far away; perhaps even meet at either of those two sites and walk to the mosque site.
Have ready, to pass out to passers-by, copies of the 'Pact of Omar', with suitable annotation; hand out copies of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and of the Bill of Rights, placed side by side with the 'Cairo Declaration of Human Rights [sic] in Islam' (suitably annotated/ highlighted to show how any 'rights' it recognises are trumped by sharia which prescribes the deliberate oppression of all non-Muslims and of all women). Be sure to highlight the fact that Islam prohibits apostasy and punishes it by the death penalty...and that Imam Rauf has NOT signed the 'freedom pledge' that was sent to him by Former Muslims United, a document that requested him to affirm the right of those who leave Islam, to do so without fear for their lives.
Perhaps Davegreybeard could send Pam Geller or Mr Spencer copies of the little leaflets that he uses to raise the alarm about Islam (I have read them, and they are very good), to be printed off by the sackful;
also, at the 'Australian Islamist Monitor' site,
http://www.islammonitor.org/uploads/docs/aimbrochure.pdf
you can download a brochure. Although it was intended for Australian readers, it would be dead easy to adapt it for an American audience by a few trifling alterations in the wording. Copies could be printed off, and then handed out to passers-by in New York City every day from now till September 12th.
One could also invite people to fill out Lorna Saltzman's 'Islamophobia Test'.
You'll find it here, at Phyllis Chesler's blog -
http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/08/26/are-you-an-islamophobe/
PHYLLIS CHESLER: CHESLER CHRONICLES
August 26th, 2009 10:17 am
"Are You An Islamophobe?
Take This Test To Be Sure".
Robert, thanks to you and Pam and that 70-80% opposed for being there and continuing to expose "Cordoba House" for what it is. If that building really is the only one where aircraft gear landed, then war memorial status might well be a promising avenue to explore.
There was a time when we could count on the NYC construction unions not to go anywhere near an abomination like this. Sadly, that time was long ago.
"and that New York needed Cordoba House (the name of the proposed mega-mosque) as a place where people of all faiths could gather.:"
just like any other mosque....right?....
From the NY Post article:
Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is a key figure in Malaysian-based Perdana Global Peace Organization, according to its Website.
Perdana is the single biggest donor ($366,000) so far to the Free Gaza Movement, a key organizer of the six-ship flotilla that tried to break Israel's blockade of the Hamas-run Gaza Strip Monday.
"...as far as I know, there is no proof he funded the flotilla."
Perdana's website lists Rauf as a 'Perdana Role Player and Contributor.' Perhaps Robert can chase down a copy of the canceled cheques...
Mr Spencer (and this is intended for Ms Geller, as well) -
is there a Post Office Box address, say, to which persons outside the USA can send a mini-flag of their home country, plus a personally-signed postcard addressed to the Mayor of New York, expressing their opposition to this horrible mosque?
All such flags and postcards to be displayed in the next big public rally, to show that not only Americans, but also people from all over the free non-Muslim world *do not want* a mosque anywhere near Ground Zero? I don't want a mosque. There were Australians, not many, but some, who died on September 11 2001, murdered right along with their American friends and allies and co-workers and hosts. So also died Canadians, Britons, Indians, Filipinos...Their flags should be flying in the protests, along with the Stars and Stripes.
The postcards could be gathered up afterward and handed to the Mayor of New York, all at once.
(Any Muslim Hate Mail that was also sent to the P O Box, could be ceremonially burnt in a suitable bonfire...).
My daughter's best friend is visiting New York City, with her mother, for two weeks, right now. I don't know if they're going to make the pilgrimage to Ground Zero.
But I know that, were I to visit the United States, it is - now - the first place I would visit, to pay my respects; and there is NOTHING I would find more horrible to see, anywhere near that place, than a mosque, **the** symbol of Muslim aggression, supremacism, and conquest.
If you are a key figure of anything, you would certainly be knowledgeable of a $366,000.00 contribution to anything and you would be one of the select few who could authorize such a sizeable contribution.....
sounds like funding to me.......
The chairman of the Perdana Global Peace Organisation (PGPO) is non other than the Jew hating conspiracy lunatic Mahathir Mohamad, the former prime minister of Malaysia.
He is convinced that 9/11 was an inside job and that there was strong evidence the US faked the September 11 terror attacks as an excuse to go to war against Muslims.
If US Could Create 'Avatar', It Could Fake 9/11 Attacks
Guess what the chaiman (Mahathir Mohamad) had to say about Jews;
He added Jews had always been a problem in European countries. They had to be confined to ghettoes and periodically massacred. But still they remained, they thrived and they held whole governments to ransom...
Even after their massacre by the Nazis of Germany, they survived to continue to be a source of even greater problems for the world.
The former premier blamed Jews for hindering progress in US foreign policy. Voicing his disappointment that Barack Obama had not yet ended the war in Afghanistan or closed the US terror detention center at Guantanamo, he explained that “there are forces in the United States which prevent the president from doing some things. One of the forces is the Jewish lobby.
This is so deja vu from the hearing to expand the Islamic Saudi Academy last year just outside our nation's capitol. A foregone conclusion, officials in the pockets of the Muslims, all kinds of honey and molasses to make us think that Muslims are just like us. and in the end, approval.
We need to follow the money trail and find out which New York City officials have been paid off by Saudi (Wahhabi) and Muslim "charity" money and expose the heck out of them. We are working on that down here in Northern Virginia and Congressman Gerry Connolly, who took over $18,000 of Saudi money and CAIR officer's donations two years ago for his election campaign, while at the same time verbally abusing opponents of the school's discriminatory and incitement-to-murder textbooks and overlooking ecological considerations that put the kabash on the previous Christian owners' request to simply rebuild a building that burned down, is going down. Time to take some of those NY officials with him.
common fucking sense!!!
you don't put up an islamic mosque in the same location where three thousand americans were murdered because of islam.
am i not seeing somthing here?
Pulsar
you could always send Mayor Bloomberg a copy of that story which appeared here only a little while ago - the one about the Muslims in Pakistan who rioted because a Hindu boy *dared* to drink from a water cooler outside a mosque.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/pakistan-hindu-boy-drinks-from-water-cooler-near-mosque-outraged-muslims-drive-hindus-into-cattle-pe.html
"In an incident which showcases the brutal hatred with which Hindus are seen in Pakistan, at least 60 members of the minority community, including women and children, were forced to abandon their house[s] in Karachi's Memon Goth area just because **a Hindu boy drank water from a cooler outside a mosque**."
This is eerily reminiscent of the Fairfax Va. council/mosque expansion hearings where alot of people,80 to 90 percent opposed to it,spoke out against it to no avail. It was a moot gathering as it was the State Department's decision to make and not the Council's. I smell a State Dep't rat here again..and I'm Canadian..
Just curious tho..What was their explanation for the last nano-second locale move I wonder..or was there any at all?
Glad to hear they actually let you speak Robert..simply amazing..Thanks..Again!
If they get another mosque on Boardwalk and start building hotels, it's over for us. :D
"A Communist (really! At the Staten Island mosque hearing he actually shouted, "Workers of the world, unite!") started shouting that I was a bigot, to which I responded that it was not bigotry to point out dishonesty and subversion, and that the Commission should consider carefully whether or not it was being lied to by the mosque proponents."
A very good retort by Mr. Spencer.
Mayor Bloomberg is selling out those who voted him to office. But New Yorkers are too soft to even feel the betryal.
Well, welcome to Al-York of Maghrib.
Always good to hear and consider what the Muslims themselves have say about their religion and its implications for society. It is so very interesting because it is always ultimately bullshit due to their total lack of understanding about what Islam really is >>>
~~~~~~~~~~
“…Anyway, after that El-Gamal ran the meeting off the rails. "As a Muslim American and a businessman," he said, "I am proof of the American Dream." He spoke about the need for a place in New York for people to learn about "Muslim heritage." And he said, "Being a Muslim and serving our fellow citizens goes hand in hand,”
“…then it was back to more on Islam and Muslims from Mufazzar Chisti of the NYU School of Law, who announced that he was married to a Jewish woman and had two children who considered themselves both Jewish and Muslim, and that New York needed Cordoba House (the name of the proposed mega-mosque) as a place where people of all faiths could gather”
~~~~~~~~~~
As for handsome old underhanded New York Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf - he has simply perfected his image of the “mysterious and knowing Muslim mystic” and is playing that shit for all its worth thinking he’ll gain paradise for his efforts. That guy has actually been around for a very long time. I vaguely remember him working his shtick in various media over the years. During my days spent in Islam I hung out briefly with several of these “pious Sufi types”. It all gets pretty ridiculous after awhile and makes you question things even deeper despite the fears of hell that stand in your way for doing so.
I am an ex-Muslim with a website. http://www.considerationsofacanadianex-muslim.org
Personally, I am not going to use this argument because it leaves me vulnerable to a charge of "falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus".
It is not clear to me exactly what his relation to Perdana is at this point.
If you listen to the Aaron Klein interview, Feisal Abdul Rauf says that he has no relation to Perdana outside of a one time lecture.
This is not exactly true. He signed a petition, and took a political position against the US invasion of Iraq, and against Israel, in general.
He didn't just "forget" this.
Why he got overly defensive when asked about Perdana is a good question.
Maybe he was anticipating the need to renounce Mahathir, and the other signatories.
Or maybe he is just plain lying. He gets very hot under the collar about this subject.
It is not proof, though.
It is like a lot of things with this guy, there is a lot of smoke, somebody has to find the fire.
In this fight, or war, if you will, the difference between right, and wrong is so clear cut you don't really have stretch the facts.
Just shoot straight, that will take them out.
livingengine@yahoo.com
"This is eerily reminiscent of the Fairfax Va. council/mosque expansion hearings where alot of people,80 to 90 percent opposed to it,spoke out against it to no avail. It was a moot gathering as it was the State Department's decision to make and not the Council's."
Even if the mosque proponents get their way, what I see in such a scenario is the opportunity for Christians to share the gospel with the Muslims that will go in and out of that mosque.
I am of the opinion that only the light of the gospel of Christ and the grace of God can vanquish all that is dark and evil in Islam.
But I must qualify that statement by saying that Allah/God Himself ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah ) is not evil simply because Muhammad put the Devil's words in Allah's/God's mouth in founding Islam. Allah/God is not responsible for all the evil commandments attributed to Him in Islam by the Devil's false prophet Muhammad.
Ah, Alert - such painful words you write about my beloved New York.
'...New Yorkers are too soft to even feel the betryal.
But yup; 'tis true - so true.
Medina and living engine,
Both of you brought additional clarity to the story. Living engine qualified Robert's statements, and Medina qualified living engine's. That attention to detail is useful.
"Even if the mosque proponents get their way".. They won't,will not,never in a hundred years, get their way..They might as well fugeddaboudit..Don't be gettin' no idee-ers now..Remember that old saying? Devil make care? (funny,works for cair too)..Ha Ha Ha..
"the need for a place in New York for people to learn about "Muslim heritage."
That's a great idea!! and there's so much to tell.
(threat level orange is just too vague)
The story about creatures interested in "serving man," who turn out not to be humanitarians, but rather anthropophages with a recipe on how to serve man as a delicacy at table, appeared as a chapter in C.S. Lewis' The Silver Chair (one of the books of the Narnia Chronicles) before it was on the Twilight Zone. And the basic story exploiting the double meaning of the phrase "to serve man" may precede Lewis, as well. Of course Lewis gave the theme his own brilliant touches...
fscarn,
Thank you for that link to the Alliance to Stop Sharia interview. That is an approach Robert Spencer has advocated: to stop Sharia, and leave Islam as a private religion alone. Spencer has used as an example the approach the U.S. used in Japan at the end of World War II, namely, uprooting and destroying all political aspects of Shinto, while allowing Shinto as a private faith to remain.
I'd like to extend my thanks to Robert and Pamela for the effort they put forth toward resisting this mosque. Your time, expenses and work have not gone unnoticed and you are both patriots. Thank you.
>> The hearing had all the appearance of a polite charade designed to satisfy legal niceties on the way to a foregone conclusion.
As much as we all hate this odious mosque, the sad reality is that mainstream America is going ahead with allowing this mosque. Even the significance of the name - Cordoba House, has not dawned a majority of Americans.
I am getting the same feeling that right thinking Americans get at dhimmi Indian behavior with respect to it's own Muslim population, such as when books are banned in the face of murderous threats by Muslims or Taslima Nasreen being harassed in India because Muslim politicians don't like her.
Just as the US - British alliance had stopped and destroyed the Nazis, I think an Indo - US alliance will be needed to destroy Islam. But right now, we see no signs of the right kind of leadership emerging in either country.
Sanjay
errata in 2nd line of 1st para: Even the significance of the name - Cordoba House, has not dawned ON a majority of Americans.
I suspect , as usual, the bevy of useful fools & dhimmi dummies won't realize the magnitude of the "occupation" and "conquest" that this mosque represents until it is built. Then it will be too late.
I thought the people of New York were smarter, and more loyal than this. My mistake.
Pardon me while I go seethe. (I've been forced to do far too much of that lately)
I think that the 'Cordoba' signature is part of the revisionism I'm seeing on boards I surf. God's Crucible is being pushed by self described anti-religionists as a definitive history of islam. It all comes down to what they want you to believe about life as a Christian or Jew under muslim rule in Spain.
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/07/pirenne-and-his-detractors.html#readfurther
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/06/fjordman-refuting-gods-crucible.html
Have these links handy when you are in Lieberal's comment thread territory... Don't let them soft sell islam to the unsuspecting masses...
Hot off the press from the NY Times :-)
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/14/nyregion/14center.html
“Americans have always been open toward religion and prayer and people’s faith as a private space,” Ms. Haddad said. “But building mosques makes a statement that ‘we are here and we are here to stay,’ and some people would like to wish them away.”
Mr. Haddad, we remember a country where you didn't have to take your shoes off at the airport, bomb sniffing dogs at stadiums. We are tied of this crap we don't want it. It is just a fact that Muslims, and American converts to Islam gain foreign allegiances, and we Americans want our country back. There is a problem here, and it is Islam.
Hot off the press from the NY Times :-)
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/14/nyregion/14center.html
“Americans have always been open toward religion and prayer and people’s faith as a private space,” Ms. Haddad said. “But building mosques makes a statement that ‘we are here and we are here to stay,’ and some people would like to wish them away.”
Mr. Haddad, we Americans remember a country where you didn't have to take your shoes off at the airport, a country where bomb sniffing dogs were not required at stadiums. We are tied of this crap we don't want it. It is just a fact that Muslims, and American converts to Islam gain foreign allegiances. We Americans want our country back. There is a problem here, and it is Islam. Take a hint, you aren't wanted.
Contacted ... from Canada. "The world IS watching". I for one stand with my American friends.
Hi SaleemSmith, had a quick look at your site and read your story. Bravo! How can we get decent muslims to leave Islam?
I think it maybe important why reaching out to them, not to get their backs up. Its like a club. You dont believe in it anymore but you fight for the club.
Haddad sounds like a lebanese Christian. But that centre fot "muslim christian understanding" is founded by Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, a saudi prince. He msut have bought the christians in his centre. The Christians should understand that they must live in servitude to the muslims.
Every time Mr.Spencer uses the term "freedom fighter" I'm reminded of the George Carlin line: “If crime fighters fight crime and firefighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight?”
Violent Islamic activists working to establish the glory of Islam and the imposition of sharia on non-Muslims hijacked passenger planes on 9/11 and crashed them into buildings, with the intention of killing as many non-Muslims as possible, as well as inspiring budding jihadists worldwide.
Islamic activists use the offensive jihad surprise attacks of 9/11 as a reason to set up a mosque on/in the near vicinity of the site of those attacks.
Islamic activists then hijack a discussionthat was about the possible landmark status of a building struck by the landing gear of an aircraft used in the 9/11 attacks to talk about...the goodness and greatness of Islam.
Hello Jihadwatch readers:
I would inform all the people I know about the mega-mosque and its negative effects. I would further post onto Yahoo Buzz against the mega-mosque. I have done that already and I suggest you do also. Let's wake up America about the mega-mosque. Thank you.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100714/ap_on_re_us/us_ground_zero_mosque;_ylt=AsYZIRlNKuwEHjLAga9zu9ph24cA;_ylu=X3oDMTNhaWh0dTR1BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwNzE0L3VzX2dyb3VuZF96ZXJvX21vc3F1ZQRjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzUEcG9zAzUEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNvcHBvbmVudHNwYWM-
You can post to this article above about the mega-mosque.
Well done, Robert. I am glad you endeavoured to keep to the subject rather than be distracted by Islamic disinformation. I am writing from the UK. A friend of mine who lives in New York State didn't even know about this controversy – your media has been quiet about it.
What is happening to America?
Well done, Robert. I am glad you endeavoured to keep to the subject rather than be distracted by Islamic disinformation. I am writing from the UK. A friend of mine who lives in New York State didn't even know about this controversy – your media has been quiet about it.
What is happening to America?
I for one stand with my American friends.
That's good to hear. I have talked with a lot of people from Canada on this issue and most have the same attitude that many Europeans have — America bad, political correctness and multiculturalism good. Most side with anybody, just so long as they aren't Americans.
What is happening to America?
The same thing that is happening in the UK and the West in general — political correctness and multiculturalism run amok. The US isn't even as far gone as other European countries, but damn it, we're trying!
Perhaps someone could do an artist's conception of the Mega-Mosque with with a bomb vest strapped around it and then perhaps the Mayor and Commission would get the point.
Thanks for giving sane voice to our concerns Robert!
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FYI:
Yvonne Haddad, a professor at the Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University:
“Americans have always been open toward religion and prayer and people’s faith as a private space,” Ms. Haddad said. “But building mosques makes a statement that ‘we are here and we are here to stay,’ and some people would like to wish them away.” (NYT)
Check out this link and spot the taqiyya:
December 28, 2006 she "was not a Muslim:
DI: Tell me something about yourself:
YH: First of all, I’m not a Muslim — a lot of people make that mistake. I grew up in Syria and my husband is Jordanian. I came to the United States in 1963. I’m a Presbyterian.
Fast forward:
“But building mosques makes a statement that ‘we are here and we are here to stay,’
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/14/nyregion/14center.html?_r=1
I'm glad Robert and Pamela are on the right side...imagine if they were on the wrong side...
Well, if it isn't a landmark site now, it will be one after the mosque is built there.
"...I am of the opinion that only the light of the gospel of Christ and the grace of God can vanquish all that is dark and evil in Islam..."
I agree with you one hundred and fifty percent, Living Stone.
But, I think one problem with this Ground Zero Mosque is that once it's in place and we try to witness to Muslims who are coming and going, Islamicist supremacy will kick in, and well-funded backers will pull a Dearbornistan on us. Given that New York is one of the most liberal and PeeCee cities in the land, I'm sure its judges will rule against us as being "provocatory".
RS wrote: "The hearing had all the appearance of a polite charade designed to satisfy legal niceties on the way to a foregone conclusion...."
I am not optimistic about the long term prospects for this nation. By and large, conservative talk radio will not touch this topic. I have heard a few callers on our north-central Fla. radio station bring it up and then the host quickly moves on. The day after Nidal Malik Hasan murdered and maimed better than 40 servicemen and women at Fort Hood, a few callers wanted to discuss his Islamic faith. The host ended the discussion. No more calls were allowed on Hasan. I've not heard Limbaugh mention this mosque. Maybe I missed it. Perhaps there will be a voter push back this coming November and again in 2012, but it will be because of the economy; not because of this president and his supporters in Congress - their outreach to the Muslim world and their trashing of Israel. I do not trust the judgment American people anymore, long term. How can better than 40% continue to support this dangerous man?!
perhaps I missed it in the comments but don't forget "mosque" means "place of battle" in Arabic
The "Tribecastan" scenario for that part of lower Manhattan is not far off the mark. With two mosques, one of them a mega-taqiyya Sharia-promotion center, operating in that relatively small area, the opportunity for influence over the neighborhood -- which was barely even a neighborhood at all 30 years ago -- is a legitimate concern. They will sure as hell do everything they can to turn it into "Cordoba". And don't be sure you will be able to "witness" -- or that in fact any of us will be able to protest in any way whatever -- once that area becomes a PC/MC "no-go" zone.
And don't forget the Islam-linked financial involvement in the new WTC complex itself.
I'm not denying this is true. Do you have a good resource for this? I have read that "mosque" literally means a place of prostration, which is this case could be every bit as worrisome. Something about the idea or ideal of one being a "slave" to Allah is unnerving. In the Hebrew Bible there is the concept of God's "servant." Moses was God's servant. Slavery is a bit much in my view.
New Yorkers:
You guys don't realise what you have let yourself in for.
A mosque means a refuge for all sorts of muslims.
And don't for a minute believe that this 'cordoba house' is going to be a multi-faith place of worship. Non-muslims will be actively discouraged from entering this mosque except on designated days when MSM will be out in full force witnessing the inter-faith dialogue held between dhimmi non-muslims, dhimmi reporters and sharia-complaint muslims.
What a colossal shame.
Kushi, you are so right. A mosque of that significance acts as a magnet, and within a few short years New Yorkers will find to their horror that the ENTIRE area will metamorphose into street scenes reminiscent of any Arab-dominated downtown you care to pick. The same has happened over recent years here in London and the pace has increased markedly over the last 48 months. The Islamic Centre of Great Britain, not far from the Regents Park mosque, has transformed the Edgware Rd, Paddington and Kilburn areas beyond recognition. Hookahs are dè-rigueur outside street cafés, all the grubby grocery-stores halal..and the real in-yer-face stuff comes at school-closing time, when anyone with a mind to think beyond today realizes that they are in the near future going to be existing in a Muslim-majority area, with all trappings that that scenario forbodes.
A Communist (really! At the Staten Island mosque hearing he actually shouted, "Workers of the world, unite!") started shouting that I was a bigot.
I remember when there used to be a debate in here over whether leftists (i.e., Marxists, aka socialists, aka Liberals, aka Democrats) were aligned with Moslems.
*** Bukhari Vol 2 Bk 24 Nbr 555 ***
No more. That argument was settled long ago. The squelching of free speech by university administrators (aka Marxists) in response to the Horowitz-Spencer inspired Women in Islam seminar series to be held at dozens of colleges across the country settled that.
*** 92:8 ***
And that's progress.
As has been pointed out, the mosque will be 600 feet north of the WTC site. It will be one block over and one down from New York City Hall. Only a few blocks from the Financial District, the Brooklyn Bridge, the Holland Tunnel, the Staten Island Ferry terminal. If jihad is going to be plotted in "Cordoba House" it could hardly be in a more "convenient" location. They might as well allow a time bomb to be set in the middle of Lower Manhattan. Doesn't matter what sort of "bomb" or how long is the fuse. Sharia, jihad, intimidation, corruption, blackmail, and treason will have their own protected enclave in which to grow.
Well, you're reading it and I'm reading it, but that looks like funding to me.
It seems that nowadays one must have a certified, notarized, ink-signed affadavit swearing to a fact before it can be accepted as a fact. If the dude's on the board of an organization that gave $360K to the Terror Flotilla, but didn't sign an affadavit to that effect, then he's off the hook.
For this we can thank our collapsed university system, especially our law schools, and of course our news entertainment media.
*** 5:101 ***
And that's a fact.
"If the dude's on the board of an organization that gave $360K to the Terror Flotilla, but didn't sign an affadavit to that effect, then he's off the hook."
All we have to do is substitute a PC hot potato (as opposed to a PC demon, Israel) -- thus, imagine:
It was reported that the Reverend Franklin Graham is on the board of an organization that gave $360 thousand to support a KKK rally that called for a revival of lynchings against blacks.
No need for further "evidence". Rev. Graham's career and public influence would be toast forever.
You wrote: "It was reported that the Reverend Franklin Graham is on the board of an organization that gave $360 thousand to support a KKK rally that called for a revival of lynchings against blacks."
Hesperado, are you responding to a post on this site?
Does Imam Rauf really want to build bridges? Or is he only interested in selling them? If he is serious in his expressed goals, why doesn't he donate the $100M allocated for his Cordoba House to the rebuilding of the WTC? This would be a tangible demonstration of his desire to undo the evil done in the name of Islam, truly reaching out to the American people. Why didn't this occur to him, I wonder?
In the mean time, since it is increasingly evident that US citizens cannot depend upon their "representatives," every effort must be made for US citizens to organize their opposition and to uncover those officials who are helping to put in the fix. That's you and me folks, people who have lives to lead and bills to pay. But certain things are non-negotiable...for instance "Don't tread on me."
This isn't over.
I would add that after Mr. Spencer left, Rick Lazio spoke against the mosque and has, thus, earned our votes and/or support for his run for Governor. Also the disruptive Communist, who looks like he has been in a time warp for the last 40 years, was escorted from the meeting. He was clearly off his meds.
The turnout for the meeting was not nearly large enough, however, our side was more numerous and had an emotional intensity that cannot easily be captured in a written account. I expected it to be a rather dull consideration of technical landmark issues and, like Mr. Spencer, was surprised at the turn it quickly took into the real important issues.
Re the twilight zone reference, there was also the Star Trek episode where a Borgified Captain Picard asks with puzzlement "Why do you resist us, we only want to improve the quality of life for all species?" Muslims are the present day Borg.
Chatillon:
'why didnt he donate to the rebuilding of WTC'. Exactly
Beachhead established.....!
Enjoy NY :-)
Maybe we could celebrate Everybody Burn the Koran Day on 9/11/10 at the site of the proposed Cordoba House, just to make it crystal clear to these vile devils that we are on to them and will not give them one more inch.
Hey, David, that's one HELL of a great idea!
Speaking of hell, here's a picture of muhammad enjoying an eternal swim in the lake of fire ...
http://thisfragiletent.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/hell-lake-of-fire.jpg
Excellent idea! If one is unable to burn the quran in person @ GZ, feel free to upload the photos.
I'll even roast a bratwurst over the flaming mess...
If this monstruosity is aproved, I'll have to tell my son that his tours in IRAQ have been for NOTHING. It's beyond me how anyone could think that building a Mega- Mosque near the WTC site is needed to promote "interfaith understanding".
The only understanding we need to have is that Islam demands that ALL other faiths UNDERSTAND and ACCEPT the premise that Islam is the ONLY true faith; no others need apply. As long as everyone understand that fact, there will be "interfaith understanding". Although it would be even better if ALL other religions were ELIMINATED from the face of the earth.
If you want to be part of a petition against SHARIA LAW in the United States sign this petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/gty65nde/petition.html
Americans have to preserve the best idea ever:
SEPARATION of Church and State. Oil and Water Don't mix no matter how much you shake it.
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER give up your FREEDOM!
Here is the video of Bloomberg giving his views on who the Times Square bomber may be, before it was discovered who he was.
Guess who he would put his money on -
1. a homegrown or accepted moderate muslim? - You must be joking.
2. A homegrown guy who doesnt like the political agenda? The Health care Bill? - Give yourself 10/10 if you guessed that.
http://the-right-guy.blogspot.com/2010/05/times-square-bomber-not-tea-partier.html
I wonder what percent of Americans want this mosque? I wonder how many in New York will vote against politicians who permit it?
wildjew,
I was responding to the guy who wrote the quote I began my comment with, Alarmed Pig Farmer:
"If the dude's on the board of an organization that gave $360K to the Terror Flotilla, but didn't sign an affadavit to that effect, then he's off the hook."
His comment just indirectly inspired my observation.
Hi Champ and Medina!
Thanks for your support! Champ: that picture was truly excellent, but which one was Mohound?
I posted the following on Yahoo, in reponse to an article about Arab coverage of the Times Square fail bomber -- please let me know how I can improve. Thanks in advance!
19 users liked this Don't Tread on Me 8 hours ago
I declare September 11, 2010 to be the first annual Everybody Burn the Koran Day. It should be celebrated on the site of the proposed "Cordoba House" in NYC, and will let the vermin know that we are on to them and will not tolerate what they are trying to impose.
Hi David! ...your Yahoo posting is great! Count me in. And mohound is the one wielding a knife, lol ...
I'm glad you put your reasonable objection on the record and educated the authorities regarding the true nature of the situation. Obviously, one of the reasons for obtaining that building was because of the piece of the plane. We just needed to decide which kind of war memorial it was going to be.
This is from the first post from Allah Snackbar
"Let's just wait and hope for the best, I guess."
Well America, that attitude is the problem in a nutshell!!!!
Hi traeh,
In what way did Medina qualify my statement?
He hasn't even bothered to read the NYP article?
He basically said nothing.
I know you are a hard worker - keep up the good work.