The headline is at odds with the text of the article -- probably a typo -- over whether Al-Awlaki was addressing Muslims in the U.S., or calling for Americans in general to convert to Islam.
In the latter event, such a call would not be surprising, because Muhammad required Muslims to invite an enemy to Islam before attacking (Sahih Muslim 19.4294).
But in either case, Al-Awlaki continues to operate and incite at will from within Yemen, the jihadist bus station." "Al-Awlaki Calls for U.S. to Embrace Islam, Wage Jihad Against Government," from the Yemen Post, July 19:
U.S.-born Yemeni cleric Anwar Al-Awlaki called for the U.S. Muslims Monday to embrace Islam and wage Jihad against their government.
Al-Awlaki, designated by the U.S. as a key leader of Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula AQAP, said in a videotape Jihad, holy war, is an individual duty incumbent upon every Muslim.
In his letter distributed today, he addressed the U.S. Muslims saying: how your consciousness accepts to co-exist with a country that has committed crimes against your Muslim brothers and sisters.
How you declare your loyalty to a government waging a war on Islam and Muslims, he said, pointing out that the Muslim community in the U.S. is continuously violating the most basic Islamic principles, spying for the U.S. against Muslims.
I was a Muslim cleric and non-combatant activist, but after invading Iraq and with continuous U.S. attacks against Muslims, I can't live and be a Muslim at the same time in the U.S., he said.
The U.S. is a cursed country because of its arrogance and illegal acts including carnage, invasions and occupation, he argued, adding that it will not be able to continue amid its draining wars.
Moreover, he hailed the botched bombing on a Detroit-bound passenger airplane in late 2009 by a Nigerian young man and the shooting at a Texas base by a U.S. doctor from Palestinian origin. The U.S. linked Al-Awlaki to the two attacks.
The U.S. froze last Friday the assets of Al-Awlaki on the ground he is a dangerous leader in the AQAP, sought to encourage his supporters to give money for terrorists and is involved in recruiting operatives.
Days after the move by the U.S. Treasury Department, Yemeni security sources said the hunt for Al-Awlaki and other Al-Qaeda suspects is continuing in Shabwa Province.
The sources said the forces aim to arrest and hand him to the Interior Ministry and judicial authorities in Yemen. They denied there were negotiations for extraditing Al-Awlaki to the United States which ordered this year to bring him dead or alive.
Al-Awlaki was jailed in Yemen in 2006 after he was charged with kidnapping for ransom and released in 2007.
Yemeni security sources said the hunt for Al-Awlaki and other Al-Qaeda suspects is continuing in Shabwa Province.
Kabuki. I wonder if the Yemeni officials consulted with Pakistani leaders on how to do this dance before they engaged with American "leaders."
*** 4:142 ***
Al-Awlaki should focus his efforts on Moslems in the U.S. armed forces. I remember when Hugh Hewitt stated on his national radio show that the presence of Moslems in our military proved that Unicorns exist. He's been quiet with that kinda crazy talk since Major Malik did his mass murder at Fort Hood, but made the statement well after Sgt. Akbar worked his magic in Kuwait. Turncoat Moslem troops is the short route to big publicity and positive news for Moslems worldwide.
*** 8:12 ***
Awlaki should move to Libya, where support for terrorism is out in the open. He could get a rock star reception at the airport, Moammar would surely arrange for that.
All Muslims living in non-Muslim countries are traitors as exhibited by Awlaki's calls to Muslims. Can the US Muslims be far behind in listening to him??? Muslim's only allegiance is to Islam and fellow Muslims and not to any non-Muslim country they live in. While living in dar-ul-harb they continue to work to make it dar-ul-salam, so where can you get them to be patriotic???
We have seen so many Muslim soldiers in the US army killing fellow non-Muslim soldiers and yet our government doesn't wake up. On the contrary the army chief of staff is more concerned that the diversity in the army would be a casualty if steps were taken to weed out these traitors from the army than the life of others soldiers. A dhimmi never learns from the Muslim history and then pays for this mistake with the lives of other patriots.
"Al-Awlaki called for the U.S. Muslims Monday to embrace Islam and wage Jihad against their government."
By asking Muslims to "embrace Islam" -- don't they embrace it already -- what Al-Awlaki is doing is telling Muslims living in America that they cannot ignore their duty to participate, directly or indirectly, in Jihad, even if their perceived self-interest causes them, at this point, to overlook that duty (Muslims not yet being sufficiently numerous, or powerful, in this country to risk the consequences if they were to openly fulfill that duty) and besides, so many of them are conducting Jihad, and quite successfully, through other means -- including the Jihad of "wealth" (the Money Weapon) and the Jihad of "pen, speech" (propaganda). See the building of mosques, presented merely as houses of innocent worship instead of as what they are, what they are used for all over the world (the false papers, and false passports, and explosives, and guns, found in mosques in Western Europe give some hint of what mosques, as centers not only of worship but of meetings for Muslims, who know perfectly well that Islam is a Total Belief-System with a politics and a geopolitics, and the ideal place to meet, unless people suspect they are being watched, is the mosque, to whip up fervor, to bamboozle visiting unwary Infidels, and, of course, to lay plans -- plans however that sometimes gang agley).
If the US were "at war with islam" we would surely begin by locking up every Muslim here in the US. But in fact, most Muslims are very happy here, can practice their religion and enjoy equal rights and prosperity because there is no war on Islam.
"War on Islam?" The US is friendly with Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, and actually fought against Christians in Kosovo to ensure rights of Muslims?
On the other hand, Al-Awlaki has (appearing to speak for Islam) just declared war on the US!
You see obama's reach out and make muslim feel good about themselves is working, see how happily the muslim are now going to wage jihad against the west. They certainly in a good cheery mood. They no longer have to think or feel they are doing anything bad when westerns are killed by them. They know that the Bama is with them not againt them.
Jilhadi: listen sinny, get over your self. I was born and raised a muslim and I do not give a flying...f about Islam or any other religions to thea matter. and there plenty of us around. trust me, I will be the first muslim to pick up a gun and shoot those jihadist who want to destroy our way of life just like my son who is a Marine is doing in Helamnd Province in Afganistan. so get real
I see that the Imam is still girding his loins.
As the Quran says:
"And make ready against them all you can of power, including steeds of war to threaten the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides whom, you may not know but whom Allah does know. And whatever you shall spend in the Cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you, and you shall not be treated unjustly." (8:60)
In his video "Jihadi Fi Sabillullah" he says that Tarbiyyah isn't needed for Jihad and quotes Ayah 2:216
"Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know."
Here is the video of him calling for Jihad.
http://www.youtube.com/user/UnidHali#p/a/f/1/XGXObT9IpzM
"The sources said the forces aim to arrest and hand him to the Interior Ministry and judicial authorities in Yemen."
Kind of like expecting Pakistan to arrest Osama Bin Laden.
Are you a Muslim, miriam rove, or an ex-Muslim? Big difference. If the latter, which I take it you are though you refer to yourself as a Muslim ("I will be the first muslim to pick up..."), then I don't see what disagreement you have with Jaladhi, who has indicated, in effect, that one can't be a DEVOUT Muslim and a GOOD American citizen at one and the same time. It's an either/or.
wellington: the answer to your question is yes a devout muslim can be a GOOD American. I know quite a few. it is just like saying unless you are devout Christain then you are not a GOOD American. however let me just tell you something:
I run the sales for one the most prominent Television Productions in the country. One thing I expect of my people is to make sure they listen to others with their hearts. they may not agree with that person but they should be able to view the world as that indivisual is seeing it. Although I disagree with you, and I can see exactly how you are viewing this. three years ago, I met a Dutch woman here in New York who was a tourist and visiting. we hit is off and started datiing. she does event planning.(we no longer date). she knows Europe like the back of her hand and two summers ago she drove me to 9 countires in Europe, Born and raised a muslim in Iran, I was shocked with what I saw in the european cities. Muslim women draped in Burqa, Muslim men with beard, mosues ever where, those sites turned my stomack. the neathelands for example is the size on NJ and those sites really amplifies even more. I see the black muslims dressed up like that In Newark, NJ and it is not a good site. but I can not just assume they are all terrorists and not good americans. how about the Chrisitan sect thai in Kentucky I think who fo to the funerals of our dead solders and shout " a good solders is a dead solders" because they think we are paying a price for hom sexuality. are they good American? I worry every day about the safety on my soan in Afghanistan.. what if he got killed and those people picketed my son's funeral? you see you need to do a little home work and you will see that you are wrong in some ways. go to LA. they call LA, Tehrangeles! there 500,000 Iranians there. you would not for one moment think that they are muslims,prpoperous, highly educated and yes some of them are devout muslims. the mayor of Hollywood is Iranian! then again he is an Iranian Jew!!! so hopefully you will think about what i just wrote... it is really nasty here in the city today...
Miriam rove is either a conflicted soul or a lousy liar. I am just not sure which yet.
Like their Pedophiles Book says: Lying, cheating, stealing and deceit are OK when dealing with the infidel!
miriam writes: "Jilhadi: listen sinny, get over your self. I was born and raised a muslim and I do not give a flying...f about Islam or any other religions to thea matter."
miriam, just like all other Muslims you can't accept the truth about Muslims. Muslims in the West pretend to be "moderate" and peaceful and willing to accept the laws of the country. But in reality they are anything but, and always pine for imposition of shariah laws, various of your organizations, such a CAIR, etc have leaders who have expressed publicly for US to be more sharia compliant, whatever that means.
So you can pretend anything you want to be or you may be an exception to the rule or you are an ex-Muslim still identifying with Muslims, but that does not change what Muslims in the West really want!!!
I didn't get too much out of your response to Wellington. It seems at best that you are an apostate.
There are warped Christian sects out there, like the one you mentioned. But unlike the Quran, the bible does not command followers to wage war and murder infidels. This is done on a daily basis, by the followers of Mohammad.
It seems to me that you can't have it both ways, as a devout Muslim - you either believe and follow Mohammad and the Quran, or you don't.
"...the answer to your question is yes a devout muslim can be a GOOD American."
A "GOOD" American, eh? Which could mean anything, coming from you, a "devout muslim". And I suppose you also think that islam is a "religion of peace", too.
Uh-huh! ...just as I thought.
I did not offend anyone in my blog. why call me names? lair, conflicted etc... I am here to have an intelegent conversation. I you are just intrested in calling people names and labeling them go to Huff post
I submit to you, miriam rove, that one perhaps can be a so-so Muslim, a bump-on-the-log Muslim and still a good American (and even this I wonder about), but if one is a devout Muslim than that person should want to 1) see Sharia replace the Constitution of the United States of America as the law of the land, 2) would agree that one who leaves Islam for another faith is to be killed, 3) that Muslims and non-Muslims are not equal in this world, including in Islamic courts of law, 4) that non-Muslims are the equivalent of human waste, 5) that all the world will one day become a gigantic dar-al-Islam with no dar-al harb left and other disturbing things along these lines which makes it impossible for a devout Muslim to also be a patiotic American, since a good American would never want what I just listed above. Also, I don't see how a good American could ever admire Mohammed, who clearly was a psychopath, a pervert and a fraud. I would not say this about Jesus, Confucius, Buddha, Zoroaster, Lao-tzu and other religious and ethical founders, none of whom exhibited the many disturbing personality traits that Mohammed did.
And it's nowhere near the same to be a devout Christian and a good American. Christianity doesn't have a legal system that is intended for everyone. Christianity also accepts the separation of the secular from the spiritual, which Islam most definitely does not. No Christian I know of thinks that a person who leaves Christianity for another religion should be killed. Christianity also doesn't provide for nonsense like requiring a woman to produce at least four male witnesses to substantiate a charge of rape or consider a woman's testimony in a court of law to be worth only half that of a man. Christianity doesn't produce violent believers aplenty whenever Christianity is criticized, contra Islam which produces loads of believers who go into hysterics, replete with death threats, whenever Islam or Mohammed are criticized. There is NO comparing Christianity with Islam. The former faith works wonderfully well with the Constitution, democracy and full equality under the law. The latter faith is at odds with the Consitution (e.g. true freedom of religion and freedom of speech), real democracy and legal equality.
BTW, are you a Muslim or an ex-Muslim? Which is it?
... the answer to your question is yes a devout muslim can be a GOOD American.
What the hell?!
*** 8:12 ***
I think somebody's been watching too much Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck, and maybe listening to some Hugh Hewitt to boot.
I recommend that you go back and read the Ko-Ran, the Ah-Hah-Deeth and the Sear-Rah, and then readdress Jaladhi's assertion (with which I totally agree).
*** 4:94 ***
Remember, folks, when the street fighting starts all those millions of Unicorns are gonna activate, herd up, and stampede.
In my third line above it should be "then" and not "than." Hate it when I'm sloppy like this. No excuse.
Greetings Miriam and welcome to jihad watch. I hope your son stays safe in Afghanistan. You know of course he is a legitimate targets for allah’s Warriors.
Lets forget for a moment that you don’t care for islam and that you love America and hate all those shrouded muslim women walking around. The fact is you mentioned you were a muslim. So keeping this in mind I have to ask you a few questions. You can answer them or not it's up to you. what is your opinion of the prophet of islam muhammed? Was he a good man? Was he the perfect man whose messages must be followed by all people? Was he really a god’s messenger? What do you think? Do you think that everything Muhammed did was because he was so instructed by allah? what do you think?
An excerpt on Yemen from the State Department's International Religious Freedom Reports for 2009:
"...the General Election Committee has adopted a policy barring all non-Muslims from running for Parliament..."
Miriam,
Describing you as conflicted was a possible state due to my observations from your words.
You wrote:
"I was born and raised a muslim and I do not give a flying...f about Islam or any other religions to thea matter."
OK, that implies that you are an ex-Muslim, and as Wellington already pointed out, in the same comment, you also wrote:
"...I will be the first muslim to pick up a gun and shoot those jihadist who want to destroy our way of life..."
This implies that you still identify as a Muslim.
Conflicted.
Also, are you a woman, Miriam?
"Jilhadi: listen sinny, get over your self. I was born and raised a muslim and I do not give a flying...f about Islam or any other religions to thea matter. and there plenty of us around. trust me, I will be the first muslim to pick up a gun and shoot those jihadist who want to destroy our way of life just like my son who is a Marine is doing in Helamnd Province in Afganistan. so get real"
You call this barrage of insults @ Jaladhi "intelligent"? Hmm ...
The verbal bullying of miriam rove is nauseating and shows the intellectual shallowness of people like Wellington and others.
As a born Jew, as someone who has lived in Israel, I learned a long time ago that the world is not black and white. The Old Testament enjoins Jews to treat Gentiles as second-class citizens. It's a fact, Jack.
So should Gentiles hate anyone referring to himself as a Jew? Should a Gentile be uncompromisingly intolerant of a Jew who does not openly and in public apostasize from the faith.
I have an Arabic teacher from Tunesia. He calls himself Moslem. He was very understanding when I said I had nothing bit repulsion for Muhammadan texts like Quran but would prefer to read the New Testament in Arabic. He loved the idea and that's exactly what my weekly lesson consists of. I can see that he has very little attachment to Islam and is profoundly moved by reading the NT.
I have a dear, dear, friend who is from Egypt. He's a great, great person and I treat him as family. I recently met his brother -- named Muhammad -- and he's a perfectly darling individual.
I've never felt the need to examine their faith in detail.
When I asked my Egyptian friend about his loyalties to USA and Egypt. He said re: Egypt, "it's a shithole. It's never done a damn thing for me."
I could go on and on and on.
@Miriam Rove
I apologize to you for the idiot posters who have attempted to insult you.
This is a terrific site with many great posters. It's an invaluable source for understanding the Jihad.
But, unfortunately, there are also, frustrated, angry individuals who just want to take out their frustration about the Jihad (which I sympathize with) on anyone who even remotely intimates they might be Muslim.
As for your English: It's fine my friend. And let anyone who criticizes you JUST TRY and LEARN FARSI or ARABIC and write a thoughtful, intelligent post as you have.
Yankel wrote:
"The verbal bullying of miriam rove is nauseating and shows the intellectual shallowness of people like Wellington and others."
Verbal bullying? Asking someone a question of whether they are still a Muslim or an ex-Muslim is verbal bullying?
wellington: thank you for being civil.
1- should sharia law be rplaced with our constitution. Hell no. there are tens of millions of muslims who belive in this. let me tell you a little about Sharia law:
most muslims if they are about to engage in some thing say investment, marital issues etc... they go to their religous mentor and in Iran mostly the ayatollahs and ask for guidance wethere they are doing thre right thing or not religously. do you remmeber ayatollah Montazeri, who just passed away few days after last year's uprising in Iran? he was the succsor to Khomeini. he fell out of favor because he argued for seoparation of church and sate. he was a staunch supporter of it. there are hundreds of ayatoaallahs in Iran who view that the church and state should be separated. unfoutunatly you do not hear from them because theri voices are being muffled and being under house arrest by the murderous Iranian government.
2-would agree if they left Islam; what you are witnessing is a group of fanatical muslims who are interperting some bull sh... muhamad said in the 7th century!!! I am not sure how old you are, I am 52 and I remmeber beck in the early to mid 80's there was a phenomenon in Israel where orthodox and ultra orthodox jews would fan out through the city on Sabath and on Saturday and throw rocks at cars or people who were not adhering to sabath. same thing wihth these f....ing muslims.
3-muslims and non muslims: the same f...ing thing. those a...holes in the fringes think they are the chosen ones. once again this is a very small minority. I am sorry to say but it is true. those people need to be told where the f...to go and also dealt with brute force. this is the only thing they understand. I went to the funeral of for freind whose father passed away in a musque in NJ. traditinally they bring a round dish were 5 or 6 people eat from the same tary. very unsanitary. as a respect, i had a bite and I am a lefty. whils I was eating the Imam who was around 40 years old came to me and asked me to stop eating with my left hand. I asked him if he was married and he said no. I then told him to go and f...himself. you hae to deal with those people with force.
4- non muslims are a waste.. I think you can gather the answer by now.
5- and all the world become a gaigantic.... well they are day f...ing dreaming! don't deny them that!!
as for the rest of your blog, having male children is not a religion thing as it is some f...up notion of males are superior to female. look at China and India hundres of thousand if millions f abortions once they know if the fetus is a female. also remmeber, in those societies males once grown up help the family fainancially.
as Islam goes..it is one f...ing violent religion. no doubt about it. however if one took the time and studied the sociology, economy, way of life etc.... some of the sh... in the Koran made sense then and not now. here are two examples:
Pork: muslims are not allowed to eat pork, because back then they did not know how the f... to cook it and they got sick so they said no more pork!! we now now how to ccok it. I had bacon and eggs this morning!
Alcholic beverages: muslims are not allowed to consume alcholic beverages. the Arabs back then were a bunch of drunks who darnk like a fish and fought like cats and dogs!
so they said no booz! this rule doen not apply today and I am going to have a Dewars on the rocks and a cigar later today!!
May be one more: having muslim men to take 4 wives.this was perefectly understandable back then beacuse there were so many wars going on that the pool of men vs. women was signififantly smaller. this rule does not apply today.
Wellington: last but not least: am i a muslim or ex muslim?
I grew up in a very conservative muslim home back in Iran. my dad was very regois. I had to participate in many islamis rituals against my own will. I escaped that once I came to the states in 1976. there in nothing more that I hate religion. nothing. Islam/ Christianity/Judaism/ budahism you name it. Religoins has killed more people than anything else.
Imagine: if there was no religion, would we be having this conversation now?! I doubt it. be well
Deisdude: thank you. the hardest part is communicating with him. as you know it is the military and you just can't pick up the phone. I have to be hoesnt with you, when I am at whom and when the bell rings, I generrally sh... my pants. I just posted a blog to a repspose from Wellington. please read it. it shouls answer all you questions, if not I will be gld to response agani.
Yankel, I agree with you.
This blog has a lot of great people on it; but there is a small clique of hyenas that go for blood, take words out of context, and use personal insults. Defend yourself and they only sink the teeth in deeper. Insult for sport. Pardon me, but I have to call this one like I see it.
As regards your remarks concerning the Hebrew Bible, I'd have to disagree. There are thirty-eight commands to either love or not wrong a stranger "for you were strangers in the land of Egypt." There are commandments not to hate, despise, or wrong an Egyptian or Edomite, both enemy nations.
The issue regarding the nations that inhabited Canaan is another thing. The fact is, these people largely intermarried with and were absorbed by the Israelite community.
awake: i guess what I am trying to convey is that since born and raised a muslim i know a few things. so you could call me ex muslim. what ever.. read my blog I just posted, hoepfull it will clear a thing or two.
be well
Who ARE you?! ...where is Yankel, and what have you done with him?!!
As I recall, you were once very DOWN on islam ...what the hell happened?
Maybe you're a different poster, I don't know ...
thank you
How in the hell did anything I write to miriam rove constitute "verbal bullying" or "indicate shallowness?" And your referring to me and others as "idiot posters" is itself apparently exactly what you have reprimanded me and others for.
As for Muslims who are good people, I have never denied that this is the case. But that's not the damn point. During the Cold War you could have found Communist Party members from a number of countries who were good in their daily lives with family and friends but this didn't make Communism OK. Ditto for Islam. Islam is the only major faith which is totalitarian in structure and ideology, as Bertrand Russell noted ninety years ago.
It doesn't matter that many Muslims don't want to enforce all of Islam's dictates. These so-called moderate Muslims are really what Robert Spencer has noted about them---they're lazy Muslims. The radicals have Islam down correctly, not the so-called moderates. One knows this or should know it. You don't.
I don't find Judaism totalitarian. Nor Christianity. Nor Buddhism. Nor any major religion except Islam, which is a menace to all mankind in a way that no other major faith is. Its whole theological blueprint is replete with prescriptions for violence and intolerance, for making war upon mankind until all the world is dominated by Islam. No other religion is like this. Good God man, how many Presbyterian suicide bombers or Orthodox Jews calling for conquest of the entire earth or Buddhists making death threats when their religion is criticized or Catholics taking hostages or Methodists sawing off heads has there been since 9/11 alone? You suffer from a bad case of moral equivalency reasoning. If you had read my post you would see some of the reasons why I and others find Islam, all of Islam, so distubing. You have a right to disagree with such an assessment but provide reasons, not insults. Finally, you don't have to apologize for me ever. Get that?
sorry, not sure why you are asking about my gender, but male
"The verbal bullying of miriam rove is nauseating and shows the intellectual shallowness of people like Wellington and others."
You are waaaay off base with your assessment of Wellington and "others", too. And notice how miriam responded to Wellington, by thanking him for being civil to her, which he WAS.
The hundreds of mosques that dot America meet the invitation standard of Jihad. CAIR and others add to that voice. Most Americans will have nothing to do with it and are unaware that this invitation is wrapped in a threat. All that remains is the drawing up of battle lines to combat the inevitable next phase of Jihad. For that, America has to awaken from it's slumber.
Thank you for your reply, miriam rove. You are more sanguine than I am about the capacity of Islam and most Muslims to come into the modern world. It is my view that Islam, unlike any other major faith, will always function as a death cult for a certain percentage of Muslims when they don't get their way. You've seen that most every day of every week of every month of every year since 9/11. The Islamic theological blueprint has disturbing things in it which no other religious blueprint has, such as the call to make war upon the unbeliever until all the world is Islamic. When Christians killed in centuries past in the name of their faith, they were violating the tenets of their creed. Muslims, when they use violence to spread Islam, are fulfilling a major dictate of their religion-----jihad. The difference here between the two faiths could not be greater.
And then there is Mohammed. Why ANYONE who knows about him could admire him is beyond me. I don't understand why so-called moderate Muslims just don't give up the ghost. There is no good in Islam which cannot be found elsewhere and yet there is much rot in Islam which can be found nowhere else. I mean what's the damn point? I say Islam's got to go. I'm not trying to insult you personally. It's just that I don't think one can reform Islam anymore than one could reform Marxism or fascism.
"You have a right to disagree with such an assessment but provide reasons, not insults. Finally, you don't have to apologize for me ever. Get that?"
Good point, Wellington; nor does he need to apologize for me, either.
And it's odd how mike ryan agreed with Yankel when his comment to you was just as mike had described: "take words out of context, and use personal insults. Defend yourself and they only sink the teeth in deeper. Insult for sport."
That's exactly what Yankel did to you.
Your thoughtful and respectful comment to miriam was clearly taken out of context, and then Yankel used a personal insult to make his point?
Ironically, mike is referring to Yankel's comment here ...
"And then there is Mohammed. Why ANYONE who knows about him could admire him is beyond me. I don't understand why so-called moderate Muslims just don't give up the ghost. There is no good in Islam which cannot be found elsewhere and yet there is much rot in Islam which can be found nowhere else. I mean what's the damn point? I say Islam's got to go. I'm not trying to insult you personally. It's just that I don't think one can reform Islam anymore than one could reform Marxism or fascism."
I wholly agree, Wellington ...excellent post.
"sorry, not sure why you are asking about my gender, but male"
Because you are using a "feminine" moniker.
Thanks for your comments and support, champ. Much appreciated.
I learned a long time ago that the world is not black and white. The Old Testament enjoins Jews to treat Gentiles as second-class citizens. It's a fact, Jack.
Also a fact is that the Old Testament was written thousands of years ago, that the practice of Jews discriminating against non-Jews dissipated long ago, and that current day Judaic ideology led to equal rights as much or more than Christian ideology (to wit: the tolerance Israeli Jews have accorded Israeli Arabs, even in the face of the hate-murder the latter offers as thanks for the former's kindness).
*** 8:59 ***
Islam is unique to history. Its scriptures mean what they say, and they dictate foreboding things.
Equivalency will kill us all (all freedom loving Infidels, at least).
lol! ...I thought the same thing, too.
Hear, hear, Anton ...
anton: the best response to your post is no response..
wellington:you and I are seeing things differently.
you are comparing religions. one is better than the other, one is is foter that the other, ne is more tolorant than the other etc...
I view all religions as evil. period. why wouldn't they want to leave Islam or Mohammad etc... epople who believe in god are gennerally afraid that there is something out there.. and denouncing it they go to hell, stuff like that.. then you have those people who they claim not to be religous, but spritual! and those people too are afraid there is something out there. however that nither here nor there. those poeple here who are suggestindg that all muslims should be gassed up are no different than those radical muslims who want to see the infidels dead. they both spew hatred..
I wanted to actually write something about Shaia law and I got real busy. remmeber, as Imentined before, practising muslims, before they engage in any activity that they are not sure that adheres to Islam, they will ask a religous mentor, and in Iran woulld be an Ayatollah.
a few month after the 1979 revoulution, a young 30 year old man went to Ayaytollah Khomeini for advice. his name was Freydoon. He told the ayatollah that he feels he is in a wrong body and that he feels he should be in a body of a female. the ayatollah told him that this is ok because it does not have anything to do with HOMOSEXUALITY. Iran is now the primeir plcae in the world to get sex exchane!! see how f....up religion is, just like the catholic church they too are homophobic. that is why we are having this discussion! religion, my friend as whole is the problem here. get rid of religion, we will all live happily together, I am now going to have a scocth and a cigar!!! Moticristo number 2 and a stiff dewars on the rock!! BTW my mom never kisses me if she smells alchol on me!! she pary extra every day on my behalf to the mighty Allah as she is convinced I am going to go to hell!!!
Thanks for your reply but you still didn't answer my questions.
for me there is absolutly nothing in islam that hadn't already been mentioned or prohibited in other previous religions. Taking care to eat right, being good to the needy, self sacrifice for others and others have been part of human history and religions for ages. they were not invented in the koran. There is really nothing new and valuable in the koran except for codifying and putting god's stamp of approval to the worst deeds of humanity such as stealing, killing, fighting, terrorizing, and converting others by force.
Wellington, I see no problems with your post and wouldn't consider them rude or vicious. . As usual you were succinct and to the point. I hope that you will consider past posts of mine when reading the following. If anyone doubts my anti-jihad point of view then take a look at my blog.
I am going to give Miriam the benefit of the doubt. But Miriam needs to keep in mind what we as non-muslims see and that he admits himself, I believe Miriam reference himself as male.
We sure do see things differently, Miriam, though I fully support your right to express what you did. And yes, I was definitely comparing Christianity to Islam and definitely saying that Christianity is a far superior religion than is Islam, from the two religions' founders (what an enormous difference there is between Jesus and Mohammed), to the ethic that is preached, to the position on the separation of church (mosque) and state, from the standpoint of which religion goes far more smoothly with real democracy and on and on. Christianity and Islam are about as different as you can get after you get past the monotheistic element. And I write this as one who is not a religious man in the least.
If every Muslim woke up tomorrow a devout Christian, the world would be a far better place. If the other way, God or something help mankind because we'd be going down into the pit. The Judeo-Christian world provides all mankind with the single finest ethical counter to the authoritarian, totalitarian creed which is Islam, as well as being the finest counter to all other totalitarian ideologies. No ethic bespeaks of the dignity and worth of the individual, all individuals, better than does the Judeo-Christian assessment of the human condition.
desidude and american infidel: once again i would like to thank you for being civil and continuing an intelegent conversation.
fols: we can be here for month blogging.. if you truly want to know about Islam and why it teaches what it says you then really need to go and study what was transpiting in the 7th century. as i mentioned, you need to understane, geography, economy, socoilogy, phscology, the way of life back then, tribal issues, alliances etc... you will then compare this to the teaching of the Koran and you will see it made a lot os sense back then. but it no loger doea now. unfourtunatly you have a hard core group of muslims who still go by the 7th century teaching and conduct their lives in 21 century. I wish i could tell you more. the way to tame the arab population back then was by absoution only. to keep them in check was by absoution only. and to this day it is still the same. look at arab muslm countires and notic ethat i said arab muslim counties with the exception of very few, they are all pathetic. look at egypt. a country of 80 million people, their own f...ing president had to go to germany to have hiss glabladder removed! you are going to tell me you are running a country of 80 million people with 30 centuries of culture and heritage and you have not trained one f...ing docotr or built one f....ing hospital to remove his gallblader? you see how patheitc this is? half of cairo does not have zip code!! and we give them 20 billion dollars of our federal tax money for one guy to stay in power for 25 years and touture his own people, and then you have the radical muslim brothehood in egypt who are offering the egyptian an alternative via radical islam see where I am going with this.. it is not just religion... there are many different factors...
Be well
Jilhadi: listen sinny, get over your self. I was born and raised a muslim and I do not give a flying...f about Islam or any other religions to thea matter. and there plenty of us around. trust me, I will be the first muslim to pick up a gun and shoot those jihadist who want to destroy our way of life just like my son who is a Marine is doing in Helamnd Province in Afganistan. so get real"
You call this barrage of insults @ Jaladhi "intelligent"? Hmm ...
You call this a barrage of insults...Pfffttt
"You know what, you are a potential Jihadi like all Moslums living on our shore- you will kill an American in a heart beat."
Do you really think so? That is so sad for you.
"This is jihadwatch, all Muslims are a threat because its impossible to tell who is a "moderate" and who is a real Muslim (taqqiya orders Muslims to lie to infidels about the true nature of their religion). Even you are that purple unicorn (the "moderate"), your very presence swells the ranks of Muslims and furthers the jihad against the west. It is also dangerous because it delays western understanding of the threat of Islam. "
You poor people. You've invented the perfect enemy in your head, but only you can see them. If only they'd stop delaying Western understanding of their evil, and sprout horns and a tail. You've developed a hate machine which rivals that of the people you hate.
ummm! blue raven: i will kill an american in a hearbeat.. let see I lived here 32 years and havn't kill anyone yet!!
shocking isnt it?
have a good evening
Jilhadi: listen sinny, get over your self. I was born and raised a muslim and I do not give a flying...f about Islam or any other religions to thea matter. and there plenty of us around. trust me, I will be the first muslim to pick up a gun and shoot those jihadist who want to destroy our way of life just like my son who is a Marine is doing in Helamnd Province in Afganistan. so get real"
You call this barrage of insults @ Jaladhi "intelligent"? Hmm ...
You call that a barrage of insults...So calling someone sinny is an insult?
Well and Champ - I follow your logical threads, but I am convinced Miriam R is a regular Moslum otherwise he had no rational for attacking Jilandhi. He was successful at diverting the attention as expected.
He is a Moslum hence a Jihadi or a non-Moslum therefore able to adhere to the American Constitution. It is impossible to respect Mohd's Quran and American Constitution simultaneously, period.
"So calling someone sinny is an insult?" - you bett you!
Emotion 0. Reason 1.
Excellent point, BlueRaven ...his insulting comment to Jaladhi does NOT make sense, given his alleged support against jihad. He would have befriended Jaladhi, not hit him with insults.
Since you asked, you I do ...
..."yes" I do.
"."yes" I do." - you fell for that.. lol..
miriam rove wrote:
2-would agree if they left Islam; what you are witnessing is a group of fanatical muslims who are interperting some bull sh... muhamad said in the 7th century!!!
.................
You make some good points, miriam. However, it is not just "fanatical Muslims" who interpret the sayings and actions of Muhammed, the "perfect man", and use them as an unchanging guide for living—it is something *all Muslims* are supposed to do.
The entire reason for the Hadith and Sira is to use "the Prophet" Muhammed as a model. There are Muslims, of course, who do not do this—but they are regarded as "bad Muslims", or even as apostates.
By the way, Wellington is one of the most even-handed posters here, and would never engage in verbal bullying of any kind.
I understand your point, BlueRaven, and, in fact, my first post on this thread, at 9:14 A.M., addressed this point of yours implicitly. Miriam's first reply to me that one can be a devout Muslim and a good American, just like one can be a devout Christian and a good American, simply didn't ring true at all (and I'm an agnostic saying this). It's so clear that true American patriotism can't be squared with Muslim ideology but can most definitely be with Christian belief. Also, as awake already asked, why would a man use the moniker, "miriam?" Do we have here taqiyya once or twice removed? Hmmm. Champ also astutely wondered aloud that the person who posted as "Yankel" didn't come across as the "Yankel" of old. Hmmm again.
You are correct, YusefYK, only if Islam is a good thing. But if Islam is the wicked religion which many have come to think it is, then decrying folks for treating all Muslims with suspicion carries no more weight than if you castigated people for treating all Nazis (or, in the present, Neo-Nazis) with tremenous reservation.
Personally, I have come to the conclusion that Islam is the one major faith which is malevolent, founded by a very malevolent man. Now, if I am wrong, then shame on me. But if I am right, then shame on you. Surely, you can at least grasp the logic of my argument. Hopefully, you will grasp even more, but I rather doubt you will.
Judaism. Christianity. Islam.
Let's take a cursory look at each one.
Are there verses in the Christian NT that can be used to support hostility towards Jews or others? Yes. Take a look at Joshua Trachtenberg's classic "The Devil and the Jews," Elaine Pagel's "The Origins of Satan," or Carrol's "Constantine's Sword" to see just how this has been done over the centuries.
That being said, am I worried that the average Christian TODAY, the guy living or working next to me, is going to turn on me because of something he read in his Bible, or because of something his preacher told him, as my grandparents neighbors in Germany did against them? The answer is an emphatic NO! This might be due to the ascendency of secularism and constitutional law in our country, but I think it is also due to the fact that Christianity, generally, teachers to love and pray for the non-believer, the sinner, etc.
Okay, let's take a look at Judaism. Are there texts in the Torah, the Tanach, in the vast corpus of Rabbinic literature, that can be used (almost always WAY ouf of context) to present an image of Jews and Judaism taking a bad attitude towards, or discriminating against, non-Jews? As a student of Rabbinic literature and Biblical commentary, I am forced to answer in the affirmative. There are some very chauvnistic texts in this corpus of literature that, taken out of all context, can be used to paint such a picture. That being said, does a non-Jew have to worry that his Jewish neighbor will cheat him, turn against him, or do anything else dishonest or untoward against him, based of the teachings of Judaism? The answer is, as it was in the former case when Christianity was in question, an emphatic NO! This is largely because Jewish law teaches that it is a far worse sin to wrong a non-Jew, because this brings Jews and Judaism into disrepute. Such deeds are called "chillul hashem," which literally means "damaging God's name" by bringing His laws, and the community that is supposed to follow them, into disrepute.
The subject before us on this blog is this:
Are there core texts, teachings, traditions, current among Muslims that teach a superiority against al kuffar, the unbeliever? Yes!
Are these texts currently being used to persecute and shun non-Muslims and Muslims who do not conform? Yes!
Do said teachings form a very present and real danger to non-believers and non-conforming Muslims? Yes, they do indeed!
Is the task before us to educate ourselves about these teachings, those who promote them, and those who are attempting to blind us to the danger they pose? Yes!
All one has to do is to pick up a paper, study the issues in an un-biased manner, etc. to see that Islam is the ideological basis of a movement/movements that pose a very real threat to non-Muslims, their cultures, and their societies. It was one thing when they simply retarded the Muslims' societies; but now they are targeting the rest of us due to immigration, economic influences, and missionary work aimed at converting Westerners.
Perhaps, some day, the Islamic world will reform itself of these tendencies and become more pluralistic and tolerant. I don't know. Honestly, I don't hold out much hope for this happening; but history has been witness to much stranger things.
That being said, I think it's crucial to unmask the ideological underpinnings of this fanatical Islamist mindset and not confuse it with the individual Muslim who does not necessarily share the chauvinistic views.
How do we differentiate among Muslims? That's another question. But we have to because our ethics and our Western values, religous and secular, call for it.
"And then there is Mohammed. Why ANYONE who knows about him could admire him is beyond me. I don't understand why so-called moderate Muslims just don't give up the ghost. There is no good in Islam which cannot be found elsewhere and yet there is much rot in Islam which can be found nowhere else. I mean what's the damn point? I say Islam's got to go."
Wellington, very well said and oh so true.
***************
Miriam I will give you benefit of the doubt for now, but a lot of things simply don't add up:
your female moniker & male gender, your supposed position running the sales department of a prominent television production company and your lack of expertise in language, spelling & grammar and the time ( I have visions of prayers prior to taqiyya) it took to actually say you are a ex-muslim (apostate) or did you actually say that?
Forgive me, I mean no insult, but I am not yet convinced.
If you really do have a son in the United States armed forces then I say good on you and wish you peace from worrying about him all the time. May he be safe.
I'm not sure Pagel's or Carrol's tomes are that reliable because they seem to have an axe to grind against Christianity, which, though I am an agnostic, I don't find in theory poses any threat to democracy or equality under the law. Christianity, essentially, reserves its condemnation for the next world. Islam does so for both this world and the next world. It's the "this world" part of the Islamic condemnation that all sensible persons should be concerned with.
Like you, I hold out little hope that the Islamic world can reform. Can't reform rotten, to put it simply. Islam must be trashed as Marxism and Nazism have been. The key is to discredit its founder. Destroy Mohammed and you destroy Islam.
"That being said, am I worried that the average Christian TODAY, the guy living or working next to me, is going to turn on me because of something he read in his Bible, or because of something his preacher told him, as my grandparents neighbors in Germany did against them? The answer is an emphatic NO! This might be due to the ascendency of secularism and constitutional law in our country, but I think it is also due to the fact that Christianity, generally, teachers to love and pray for the non-believer, the sinner, etc."
Good point, mike ...and I would also like to recommend one of Robert's books in support of your comment:
"Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is And Islam Isn't"
A must read!
"Like you, I hold out little hope that the Islamic world can reform. Can't reform rotten, to put it simply."
True, Wellington ...and they can't exactly give muhammad a makeover, now can they? They would literally have to scrap their prophet before beginning any meaningful change/reform. That is unlikely, imo ...
perhaps Marisol can discover through the I.P. address who this Miriam is.
You call this a barrage of insults...Pfffttt
No, chump just doesn't have anything better to do.
I don't we need to study the Arabic history, geography, topography, geology, etc. to know why they wrote this Koran. And why it all made sense back then. All ancient cultures felt justified in what they were doing. For a majority of people slavery and domination of other people was a right. Slavery was god; they did jobs that no masters would do. Slavery kept them fed and a roof over their heads. It was all justified. Women as baby factories and homemakers was taken for granted. A man pride was the numbers of children he had because infant mortality was very high and many others died of accident, illness, and murders. In India casteisim was not evil but a way to keep the society running smoothly, everyone had a job for life and so did their offspring. Once a tanner always a tanner, once a street cleaner always a street cleaner. You see it all made sense back then.
Unfortunately the Koran codified this behavior as god given commandments for all humanity for all times. Nothing is being misinterpritated all are from the Koran. To be true Muslims all Muslim shave to live the 7th century life style. Aren't you glad you don't? Aren’t you glad you are thumbing your nose at Allah, at Muhammad, at all the ummaha, all the sheiks and khallifs? I hope so.
Welcome new commenter. Put forth a cogent argument or begone. Jenna did not present a valid argument at all.
You are now suspect, "Ichthus" and consider yourself, officially noted.
Well said, awake.
Hi, Wellington. Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
I do not think that Carrol has an anti-Christian or anti-Catholic bias, being as he is a practicing Roman Catholic and identifies himself as such. I would put him in the category of those clarion voices that see a fault in what they love and do whatever they can to shed a light on it, then repair the damage as much as they can.
For three hundred and fifty years the Jews of Rome, under the iron thumb of papal authority, lived crammed into a tiny, disease-prone, and cramped walled ghetto located along a malarial swamp upon the banks of the Tiber just a stones throw from the Papal Palace, forced to participate in humiliating public rituals at Easter, and subjected to heavy taxation, weekly forced conversion sermons delivered by Dominican and Franciscan monks, and occassional kidnapping and forced baptism of children and coercion of family members. It was not until the LATE 1800s that these walls were torn down and its fetid conditions exposed to the world, not by inner papal reform, but by the excommunicated leaders of the Italian Republican Resorgimento, who overran Rome and destroyed the Church's temporal political power.
It is Carrol's point that the Holocaust did not happen in a vacuum, but was made possible by centuries of dehumanizing conditions tolerated by European religious and political authorities.
That being said, it is a fact that the Catholic Church has recognized its role there, reformed itself, and continues to make educational strides in ridding itself and its members of this past injustice. That is why I say I don't think such things would be allowed to happen again.
Islamic institutions however, have not even begun to confront their religion's dark side, but continue to deny it.
No change can come about when the players involved are in utter and complete denial of the pain their beliefs have, and ARE, causing others.
Thanks for your response, mike. I do think you will find much criticism of James Carroll within Catholic circles even though he himself is a Catholic. The criticism is that he finds way too much of a connection between Catholic theology and what the Nazis did to the Jews.
As some critics pointed out when reviewing his book, Carroll even relied upon the now largely discredited John Cornwell work, Hitler's Pope, when assessing the Holocaust. Cornwell's tome trashes Pope Pius XII, making him virtually complicit with Nazis in their treatment of Jews. Though not religious in the least myself, I have, after much investigation, concluded that Pius XII is probably the most underrated person of the entire twentieth century. He saved more Jews than any other single person in history, over 800,000. And yet because of a truly false revisionism that began in the 1960s, started incredibly because Pius worked behind the scenes rather than openly defying the Nazis, something which he and Jews of his time knew would be counter-productive, his record has been distorted most grievously.
Cornwell, like Carroll, is a Catholic, but so what I would ask. Both are kind of loosey-goosey Catholics in the Hans Kung tradition, which is to say that they don't really like a lot of what Church authority teaches. Thus, the argument goes, both men (Catholic Gary Wills too in Papal Sins) come at their issue with quite an agenda. In any case, I think it important, regardless of which side a person comes down on here, that it at least be acknowledged that Carroll is controversial, to say the least. That's why I said what I did in my earlier post. Thanks again for your input.
Thank you, Awake :)
Wellington, point taken. Thank you. Pope Pius' role during that era is indeed controversial, and it is not easy to generalize about him, in my opinion at least. Could it be suggested that Hochruth, a Protestant, perhaps had a hidden agenda when he wrote "The Deputy"?
Likewise, the RC Church's role during the Holocaust is controversial, with some Church officials taking part in the creation of a "Reichs Theologie" that wittingly aided Nazi aims, participation of priests in the fascist puppet governments in Croatia and Slovakia (and the actual participation of some in horrific atrocities against Orthodox Christians and Jews), to martyred priests (mostly in Poland) who opposed the Nazi German and fascist agendas.
In numerous countries, clergy hit people, wrote out false birth and baptismal certificates, etc. in order to save as many lives as they could.
As stated above, it is hard to make generalizations.
I have to also note that there were actually Muslims who opposed the German genocide:
http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishFeatures/Article.aspx?id=180647
Not all Muslims shared the Jerusalem mufti's perverted goals and methods.
Ooooops.
Erata:
Make that "clergy HID people" rather than "clergy HIT people"......
:P
Interesting exchanges above. I can't add anything that hasn't already been said, so let me return briefly back to the main story.
Al-Awlaki - didn't Obama put out a fatwa, err, contract, err, something, along the lines of making him fair game for assassination? This appears to be yet another one of Obama's promises he has failed to make good on.
Miriam is probably one of many other such Muslims - and they are practicing Muslims -- who see themselves as Americans first, who see the view of radical Islam for what it is: no different than, say, Fundamentalist Christians, who believe they are doing God's work when they kill abortionists and blow up abortion clinics. One of the most respected (and yes, Robert Spencer would agree with this, I know) anti-terrorism activists in America is a Muslim: Zuhdi Jasser. Look him up.
It is people like Jasser, like Miriam, who are going to make the difference. The idiots who have no intellectual capacity to understand this, who somehow believe that insulting people from the shelter of anonymity on an internet site, and who have very little to contribute in terms of positive change, are the ones who are standing in the way.
Miriam is probably one of many other such Muslims - and they are practicing Muslims -- who see themselves as Americans first, who see the view of radical Islam for what it is: no different than, say, Christian Americans who decry the perversions of the Fundamentalist Christian radicals who believe they are doing God's work when they kill abortionists and blow up abortion clinics. One of the most respected (and yes, Robert Spencer would agree with this, I know) anti-terrorism activists in America is a Muslim: Zuhdi Jasser. Look him up.
It is people like Jasser, like Miriam, who are going to make the difference. The idiots who have no intellectual capacity to understand this, who somehow believe that insulting people from the shelter of anonymity on an internet site, and who have very little to contribute in terms of positive change, are the ones who are standing in the way.
What is standing in the way is the Quran and the examples of Mahound...
'''Miriam is probably one of many other such Muslims - and they are practicing Muslims'''
A pious Mahoundian does not 'practice'...As slaves to Allah, Allah, Islam, and the Ummah come first.. and America second, if at all...
are wrote:
"It is people like Jasser, like Miriam, who are going to make the difference."
Your argument would be better served if you refrained from trotting out the tired and still unfounded moral equivalence assertion, by comparing a handful of incidents committed by self-proclaimed "Christians", who acted in the complete absence of any canonical directive in Christianity, as opposed to the 14,000 plus and counting acts committed by Muslims since 9/11/2001 which are perpetrated in their own words as honoring a direct mandate and obligation contained in the Islamic texts, and certainly not in spite of them.
are also wrote:
"The idiots who have no intellectual capacity to understand this, who somehow believe that insulting people from the shelter of anonymity on an internet site..."
Odd it is, that you would toss an insulting ad hominem from the shelter of anonymity, against any and all that might disagree with your argument, especially in the beginning of a sentence condemning insults under the shelter of anonymity...
First point: Awake in his 6:43 A.M. post already adequately addressed the reason why a comparison between Muslim terrorists and so-called Christian extremists is not apt at all. When Christians engage in even 1/20th the number of terrorist acts that Muslims do worldwide, get back to me (and others like awake) to crow. Till then, I would strongly suggest you cut out the fallacious tu quoque reasoning.
Second point: Just because one takes the intellectual position that Islam being a totalitarian ideology is incapable of reform should not open up such a person to charges of intellectual deficiency or similar ad hominem attacks. Tell those of us who find the entire Islamic faith the problem why we are wrong rather than just insulting us. And remember, very significant individuals like Hume, Gibbon, Jefferson, Quincy Adams, de Tocqueville, Schopenhauer, Renan, Russell, Churchill and Fallaci all found Islam, all of Islam, dismal and retrograde. You're not going to call such people as these intellectually deficient are you?
Ironically, you engaged in the very same defective approach to countering a position that you accused others of doing. Hopefully you will at least grasp the irony here, but maybe not.
are ...
I highly recommend reading Robert Spencer's book:
"Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is And Islam Isn't"
This forum does not subscribe to your profoundly errant moral equivalency strategy. We deal in truth here, not fallacious nonsense.
Thank you again for replying, mike. Indeed, Rolf Hochhuth's play is the initial culprit in setting off a false revionsism that only now in the past decade is thankfully being reversed. When Pius XII died in 1958 he was lauded by the worldwide Jewish community. Golda Meir, who was Foreign Minister at that time in the Israeli cabinet, gave Pius a moving eulogy at the UN. She and other Jews knew what he had done.
The sullying of his reputation after his death is as fine an example of false revisionism as one can find I would contend. Included in this bastardized rewriting of history is the erroneous charge that Pius didn't speak out publicly against the Nazis. Yes he did, for instance in his Christmas message of 1942 when he attacked what the Nazis were doing in such thinly veiled terms that it made Hitler furious.
Pius mostly worked behind the scenes in a marvelously adroit way to save Jews and others. He engaged in a studied neutral stance often times as well so that he could accomplish more. But, of course, this "neutrality" of Pius' in the late twentieth century was taken as evidence of his insensitivity and callousness when it was anything but. Also, Pius actually wrote a hidden letter of abdication which key Vatican personnel knew of. Pius understood he was pushing the envelope with the Nazis and wrote this letter in case the Nazis seized and imprisoned him, much like Napoleon did Pius VII. If that happened, he no longer wanted to remain Pope and wanted a new Pope to be elected. Fortunately, this didn't occur and Pius continued his masterful subterfuges to save hundreds of thousands of Jews and many non-Jews.
I thus would respectfully disagree with you about generalization here. I think that one can generalize about Pius and say that he was an extraordinary man who did about as much as possible and then some for a person in the position that he was. I would also be prepared to generalize about the Catholic Church's role in toto during WWII. Yes, there were certain rogue clergy who were sympathetic to at least some Nazi designs, a few even actively cooperated with the Nazis, but these were the exception to the rule and that is exactly why a generalization on any matter can be made. Thanks again for the exchange.
sorry for the delayed response. not sure what you mean by not being convinced. I have no Agenda to be on this site or any other site to that matter. this site, unlike others is exposing a phenmenon that is vital for us know in order to protect our way of life. mine and yours here in the states. the reason I like this site is that it is not anti semite site. or I should say anti muslim and they are not here to promote hate rather to educate ian a peaceful manner. which is great. on as for you not being convinced"
my speliing and grammer has nothing ot do with my intelegence and it is not indicative og ignorance. this is a blog. people type fast and I am working. just so you know two of the brightest minds in the history af man kind were notorious for their grammer and msispelling. Edison and Einstien. not that I am a genuis!!! ok, I hope I put tha one to rest..
it is reaally intresting and I have been on this site for a month probably that for a lot people, it is shocking that they see a muslim here denouncung Islam. it seems to me a lot of people here view me with susupition.. like what I am doing here? or may be I am a sleeper Al Quada agent! just like the Russain spies a few weeks ago.like this indivisual DESDUDE whants to see my IP adress to see "who this Miriam Rove is".! If i was here to goad people I would post"ISLAM ROCKS"!Muslims will rule the world!! just to piss people off and laugh, instead I am here to have a peacfull and meaningful dialogur. as for my female name Miriam, this is internet.. you can choose what ever alias you like. and yes I am a male and yes, and probably very shocking to you and a lot of people I am the head of sales for a mjor prominet entertainment and TV prodcution here in NYC, and yes I have 4 sons and my third son who is 22 years old is USMC.
OK: but here is the most important thing you neen to know about me: I am not here to denounce Islam, because it kills people it is backward... etc... I am here to denounce a religion. I ahet religions all of them. all of them. the last thing I belive in is god!!
God is the single most significat yet the saddesst tragedy man kind has ever pulled. Moses, Jesus, Mohammad and the rest of them, those were not you run of the mill people they were f...ing genuese who saw opprtunies and we are paying a price tady. so I am not confronted internally. so I will denounce Islam. I bet the reason you do not see muslims here on this site, is because they know and see the horrific parts of Isalm and the same time they are tormented not to denounce god or muhammd. hope this expalins things..
"Miriam," hello. I for one am glad that you are here to add your personal perspective.
I wish your son's safe conduct and return from his deployment in Afghanistan.
"miriam" Thanks for taking the time to try to explain.
"like this indivisual DESDUDE whants to see my IP adress to see "who this Miriam Rove is".!"
Miriam, I have no interest in knowing your I.P. or your location. I just mentioned to let you know that the
owners of this blog knows the I.P. and location. The owners doesn't publish the I.P. and location unless he/she makes death threats against the owners or bloggers. In the past we have had trouble makers who were kicked out but came back under another name. They of course are the same I.P. and they were uncovered and kicked out again.
Anyway welcome again to this blog and thanks for your politiness. Your insight is invaluable and will be much appreciated. Also welcomed to the minority of bloggers who have to type in a hurry and make many grammitical mistakes. I am one of them.
Planning the global jihad started back with the Middle Eastern oil boon. That's why they never built up their infrastructures for the common people in Muslim lands, but instead used that money for politics, weapons (including WMD's hidden in Syria), war technology, and sent their brightest to colleges in the U.S. to learn our culture, weaknesses, educational system, and to gain either citizenship or ease of entry due to wives and children. The Muslim Brotherhood used to conduct meetings of the Muslim Student Association in the cafeterias of U.S. colleges. Most Americans just weren't paying attention.
Now, Muslim leaders are acting as if they are in place to hand out global mandates to convert as prelude to global crackdown. The U.S. hasn't been completely "smacked down" to our knees, but there seems to be one last push through Mexico for that. President Obama has not yet established Sharia (perhaps parallel at first) socialism in this country yet, but he is working on it. Muslims are already asserting their rights under Sharia law (i.e. privilege and plunder of non-Muslims) in U.S. cities. Unless we make jihad crimes hate crimes against non-Muslims and outlaw Sharia law soon, it will be very hard to stop the momentum.
i suispeck that iram vorove is has such bad spelling and gramer abecause he *or she is textisntg his r her( comments on a fast moving bmpy train or wagon or perhaps while jogging thru Control Park in Gnu YOrk City.
I onkd hope that Miriam doesn't use her or his atroicious spelling and grummer in his and her's presteejious job rnning the sales dopertment for "one the most prominent Television Productions in the country."