Egypt: Thousands of Copts protest "collusion by state security services" after disappearance of priest's wife

http://newstime.co.nz/coptic-christians-protest-at-egyptian-consulat-new-york.html
Coptic Christians Protest at Egyptian Consulat (NYC)

By now it should be evident that the Copts in Egypt, the Christians or any other minorities in Muslim countries are on their own.
The world doesn't seem to care. Apparently, they are expendable.

Non Muslim governments are willfully blind to all this, they just hand over the jizya and look the other way.
The policy is: Don't rock the boat!

Shameful.

This is the kind of story that I hate to see. There is no evidence on what has happened, no one knows - in that case- bring out the standard blame line - it was the muslims - such BS.

Have they properly interrogated the father - perhaps he had a blazing row with her last night - and she is pissed off with him not answering his calls but is likely at her sister's place or as in the case of most non-muslims when they are in trouble - gone to see her councillor. As if that is going to help!

Non-muslims start dating at the age of 10 - and by the time of their marriage at 30 or so they have been through countless partners - so marriage is nothing special to you -just an excuse to buy a house and the odd cat or to have the one child.

Ofcourse if there is trouble in the mariage - quick divorce (and you know that 66% of non-muslim marriage end up there), of the remain 34%, 30% probably are into the councilling route, leaving a staggering 4% of marriage which either work or they cannot afford to see a councillor.

Maan, a councillor does nothing for you - you need to look at the Koran for inspiration or the behaviour/manner of Muhammed for marriage guidance. Although offically only allowed 4 wives he married, he also married a jewess to comfort her after her family abondoned her, he married also women who had fought and lost their lives for the cause of Allah - such is the reason that he was such a wise teacher.

As for the priest's wife - she will turn up when she has stopped fuming - you spoil your own women and then wonder why you are all so unhappy - seesh !

roland sez:

"you need to look at the Koran for inspiration or the behaviour/manner of Muhammed for marriage guidance."

oh, must be like...send husband of beautiful wife to certain death in a battle he cannot win in order to claim the wife legally...

Thank you, Assyrian International News Agency, for your wonderfully biased assessment of the situation. Let's try something a little more reliable:

http://www.almasry-alyoum.com/article2.aspx?ArticleID=263554

(This is a secular opposition paper in Egypt)

The best part is the last paragraph, which the Assyrian's decided to leave out of their discussion. She had reportedly been beaten by the priest which the police continued to ignore but her neighbors seemed to notice. Before leaving, she left her two year-old son with her parents due to "marital conflicts," was able to get an approved 15-day paid vacation from her work as a public school teacher - Egypt's bureaucracy is notorious for its slow pace, without a doubt this took her at least a week to achieve - AND managed to pull out all of her money from her postal savings account and pack up her belongings.

"Abducted by Islamist supremacists?"...sounds like more JihadWatch runaround.

Also, what about this story...does JihadWatch cover stuff like this? The link is from a Christian blog but was on the front page of the opposition Sherouk newspaper on Wednesday:

http://omalnoor.mam9.com/montada-f99/topic-t10150-5.htm

(Police are looking for three Coptic brothers for murdering the husband of their sister who escaped from her family in Upper Egypt and announced her conversion to Islam FIVE YEARS AGO. - She had tried three times to run away, but was returned to her family by the state security services until the third time she was finally granted a conversion certificate and allowed to travel to her lover.)

Next door from Egypt, the Islamists are preparing for another attack on Israel.

Besides the Hamas terrorists in Gaza who have been raining rockets onto Israel from the South, Southern Lebanon is occupied by Iranian terrorists, Hizbollah, who attacked Israel in July, 2006.

The Hizbollah terrorists are at it again and Israeli intelligence has determined that they are planning another war in the near future.

This time, things will be very different since Israel has been working overtime to destroy them.

http://jewishdailyreport.wordpress.com/2010/07/23/israel-prepares-for-war-with-lebanonhizbollah-terrorists/

"It is a sin what is happening to the Christians in Egypt," Father Tedaos said.

It's not sin, it's Islam...Persecuting Christians (kufr in general) is not a sin, it is Allah's holy work...

"If the Islamists want to kill us, let them go ahead and do it," he said....

'Mistake'...he may very well get his wish...All those Christian in one place would make an excellent target...

Re the postings by the abominable 'roland' and the equally sly and nasty 'An American' above (with his citations from an Egyptian newspaper - remember, 1. Muslims lie Muslims lie Muslims lie and 2. Egypt does not have a free press)

I would warn all persons new to this forum that you would be wise not to believe a word that comes out of the mouth of any professed Mohammedan - be it 'roland', 'An American' ...or whoever came up with the slanderous story/ cover-up in Al Masry, as cited by An American.

Muslims are allowed to lie to protect Islam; the flip side of which is that they may lie to confuse, deceive and generally damage non-Muslims. After all, Mohammed said - 'War is deception', and serious Muslims are at war with non-Muslims 100 % of the time...so deception of non-Muslims is permissible, even desirable, 100 % of the time.

Here at jihadwatch we regularly find that Muslims, confronted with the facts of the despicable, atrocious, vicious sadism of their fellow Muslims frequently displayed toward non-Muslims, will usually lie flat out and deny it with brazen fluency (or will turn around and blame the victim).

If you have not yet discovered what 'taqiyya' is, read this very useful article by Raymond Ibrahim, scholarly Arabic-speaking son of Copts who managed to escape the hell-pit that is Egypt, and settled in America:

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

"How Taqiyya Alters Islam's Rules of War: Defeating Jihadist Terrorism," by Raymond Ibrahim in the Middle East Quarterly, Winter 2010.

And then, when with Mr Ibrahim as guide you have toured all the key Islamic texts on when and how and why lying to the Infidel is such a great idea, read this, too, by an ordinary American who speaks from bitter experience:

http://antiprotester.blogspot.com/2006/04/life-in-iraq-part-ii-civilization-of.html

Friday April 28, 2006: Life in Iraq Part II, A Civilisation of Deception. Posted on The Autonomist web-site.

From that piece: "Lying is the only way a completely incompetent person who is trying to screw everyone can possibly retain any sense of dignity among others. Welcome to the Middle East." {That is, to the *Muslim* Middle East - dda; Jews and Christians are, on the whole, far less likely to lie; for the God that they worship is a God of emet, truth, rather than the slippery 'best of malicious deceivers' or 'best of fraudsters' who is worshipped by the Muslims - dda}.

I believe this story because I have already read, over the years, a *mountain* of distressing and credible reports of Muslims abducting women (and, often, minor girls), raping them, brutalising them, drugging them sometimes, and 'converting' them to Islam...not only in Egypt, but in Iraq, and in Pakistan. It is a pattern that characterises Muslim behaviour toward non-Muslims in every place where Muslims feel strong enough to get away with it.

Here is a report that focuses on what Muslims have been doing to Christian women in Egypt

http://markdurie.blogspot.com/2009/11/abduction-and-islamization-of-christian.html

http://www.csi-int.org/pdfs/csi_coptic_report.pdf

I will add, by way of postscript, that there has been another disappearance: of an Egyptian human rights activist who recently, publicly, declared herself an apostate and convert to Christianity. It does not seem that she has simply gone into hiding; rather, it appears that she may have been 'disappeared' in the sense of being *made* to disappear, by persons of evil intent.

http://markdurie.blogspot.com/2010/07/nagla-al-imam-has-disappeared.html

An American, what a load of BS. Are you quoting "Almasry Alyoum as a reliable source, and look who has written the article!!! Same old journalist Amr Bayoumy, a journalist in the payroll of the Muslim Brotherhood. What a load of crap! The article said that "Some people give another version which is that the wife was beaten by her husband before she ran away from home. "Some people!!!!" American friend, Coptic priests are not like your sheikhs, they have one wife whom they respect, and they have no Muslim manners. Out of honesty why don't you tell the people here that the rest of the information you quoted was according to the SSI which is Egyptian State Security, who are paid by Saudi and Gulf states petro-dollars. At the least the article was more honest than you when they quoted their source.

Sorry American, Copts will always expose you, because we hate to see our newly-adopted homes, do the same mistake we did over 1400 years ago. WE ONLY WANT TO TELL AMERICANS, BE CAREFUL, LEARN FROM HISTORY. SALAMU ALEIKOM AMERICAN!

How about that, An American? Did I get that right? Have you posted here under that name in the past?

Mary,

It's pretty obvious you've been out of the loop for a while but let's try to put this into context: the local information from Minya - the "some people" comment was not gathered by Bayoumy but rather by Said Nafi' - that second name to the left that says "Minya" that you chose to leave out of your comment or didn't bother to read. He's a highly respected journalist who has been rather scathing of the security services and their deeds, I hardly think you could place him in the pocket of the Brotherhood or sate security.

Secondly, have you ever been to Minya? I just got back from a trip there last weekend and it's still a very traditional locale, i.e., nobody is willing to give their names to anyone, particularly the press, when they know that it could mean their lives (remember the Coptic priest ID card fraud scheme about a year and a half ago? Two of the state's key eyewitnesses - both Christian - who had given their names to the papers stating that they had seen the forgery were found dead. Their killers are still at large.)

Thirdly, I will go with you there for Amr...he does seem to have his biases, particularly AGAINST the state security services...which would support your very narrow-minded argument of Muslim in Egypt = Brotherhood. A funny thing I noticed though is that in other papers that mentioned the subject (Youm 7 and Dustour specificaly) were written by Christians who only quoted official Church sources (or the father of the priest) for their information. Do you not find that to be a little biased?

Finally, let's make sure we've got one point very correct: the Egyptian State Security is NOT funded by Saudi and Gulf petrodollars, but rather by direct funding from the land of freedom, happiness, human rights, and good fun-loving Christians: the United States of America.

Also, how did you find the other article? Didn't mention it much.

May-be the hushand murder his wife than is trying to cover it up by blame muslim knidnap her. It wouldnot be the first time that5 Christian blame Islam to cover up they crime. May-be the police neede4d to investrate the good father he is hideing something.

Mary,

Also, forgot to add this part in. Let's go for a complete agreement of your argument: "some people" was an incorrect statement and that we will believe the Church and the priest's father that no domestic violence occurred ever and that their relationship was a perfect paradise. Given this, she was still able to obtain a 15-day paid vacation approval, drop off her son at her parent's home, pull all her money out of her savings account and pack her belongings before her "abduction." Although Egypt is famous for its rumor train, vacation approvals, a child dropped off, and money withdrawals have a paper trail, easily proven by a person on the scene, like Said Nafi' from Minya for example.

"Just doing a little thinking...I think I thought right...
I accidentally do that sometimes..."

lol, swami, you're funny. And quite modest!

Yes, "An American" is a Mohammedan, just as dda said:

"I would warn all persons new to this forum that you would be wise not to believe a word that comes out of the mouth of any professed Mohammedan - be it 'roland', 'An American'..."

"War is deception." - Warlord Mo

Duh,

Robert Spencer is a fantastic writer and I will totally give you that. He can spin people in circles and throw you off on tangents to the point that you completely forget the subject at hand, much less the focus of readers who on average read 1.1 pages per visit (according to the site's web statistics.)

Interestingly enough, I use JihadWatch as a great catalyst for my faith and I would credit it as one of the primary reasons for my being a more educated individual. Every time I read something posted here I move off to do some real research, pulling out what Islamic sources and news reports say without the filters of pundits and blogs. I am always amazed at how such a negative and hateful site can result in such a positive reaction.

This is - or should be - the beginnings of a bonafide Civil Rights movement.

Here's an idea...locate the woman and return her to her husband; you know, good, old-fashioned, common-sense justice! Ahhh, but one must take into account the ever-present threat of an extremist backlash.

Hmmm...how to reconcile true justice with true Islam? Good luck with that one.

An American wrote: If you would like to be more correct, please use the term Mowada', a form of tribute paid by non-Muslim states to Muslim ones in return for avoiding war."

No, I'll use the term "protection money" which is what gangsters charge business owners with in order for the business to avoid unpleasantness such as vandalism or burglary. Anyway you say it, it is the practice of THUGS.

Roland: dude what are you talking about. although I do not know what exactly this priest story is, but the copts have always been harrased by muslims..are you kidding... what minority do you know of that live a in a muslim country and not being haraases either by muslims or theri goverment?
the Ahmadia muslims, the sunnis just killed 80 of them three weeeks ago...
the Bahis, in Iran.. they are jailed and toutured
the Jews, Armenians(chritians), the Zorastrins in Iran are not allowed to vote or join the military...
the exedus of jews from arab countries..
come on let's get real... 62% of marriages in Iran are wound up in divorce. this is just not a western phenomeno...
and me a fvor, don't call me anti muslim, as I was born and raised a muslim, and guess what, I am totally against building a misque in New York City..
so, there you have it../

Dear friends at JW -- don't feed the trolls. They are stupid and their minds have been destroyed by brainwashing submission. We who understand the power of free choice don't need to tangle with them.

EXCERPT ON EGYPT FROM THE 2009 REPORT ON INTERNATIONAL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM:

EGYPT
"...persons age 16 and older may convert to Islam without parental consent...

"In [January 2008] ...the [Cairo Administrative] court wrote that principles of Islamic law forbid Muslims from converting away from Islam..."

"...The approval process for church construction continued to be hindered by lengthy delays, often measured in years,..."

"...the Government's interpretation of Shari'a...dictates "no jurisdiction of a non-Muslim over a Muslim..."

"...the Government discriminates against non-Muslims..."

"...On December 13, 2008, airport security officials arrested a convert from Islam to Christianity...The convert subsequently told U.S. officials that state security officials raped her multiple times and subjected her to other physical and mental abuse...to pressure her to revert to Islam..."

"...A male convert from Islam to Christianity told U.S. officials that agents of State Security had detained him on multiple occasions over several years, including during the reporting period. The convert stated that authorities had subjected him to severe physical and mental abuse; he said the officers called him an apostate (murtadd), told him he was suffering as a result of his conversion, and pressured him to revert to Islam. The convert stated that during the reporting period state security officers beat his wife on the abdomen while she was pregnant, causing her to hemorrhage. He also showed officials scars purportedly inflicted by governmental interrogators in previous years, including long scars on his back and sides and numerous deep, circular scars on his shoulder, reportedly caused by state security officers holding burning cigarettes against his flesh for long periods of time...."

"...Muslim convert [to Christianity] Muhammad al-Higazy remained out of public view throughout the year, reportedly fearing for his personal security following public death threats he received from his family and societal elements when he sued the Government in 2007 to acknowledge his conversion by issuing him identity documents that list his religion as Christianity."

"Maher Al-Gohary, another convert to Christianity who sued for the same right during the reporting period, also claims to live in hiding and has stated that he and his daughter have also received death threats."

"A female convert to Christianity who reported that she was severely abused while in state security detention fled when she was released on bail pursuant to official allegations that she procured a counterfeit identity document listing her religion as Christianity. She remained in hiding at the end of the reporting period, fearing abuse from her family and government forces...."

"...As of the close of the reporting period, the Government had not prosecuted any of the Bedouin villagers who assaulted the Abu Fana [Christian] monastery in May 2008, and those who concurrently kidnapped, physically abused, and reportedly attempted forcefully to convert several [Christian] monks ..."

Etc., Etc.

ROland sez:

"Just with and see - the father's wife will turn up without muslim involvement."

and what about the young Christian girls who frequently disappear only to turn up as Muslim wives who have been forceably converted to Islam?.....

No Muslims involvement?...I doubt it..

Careful cranky JihadWatchers, the truth has started to come out (but you guys really aren't big on the follow-up, especially when it turns out that MUSLIMS ARE NOT TO BLAME)

http://www.shorouknews.com/ContentData.aspx?id=271210
Read it all, but I'm looking at the last paragraph

(Left because of a NORMAL MARITAL CONFLICT and that the situation has NO SECURITY OR EXTREMIST DIMENSIONS, and that everybody is ensured, relaxed, etc.)

Of course, Mary could be right, and the writer of the article might be in the pocket of the State Security Services, or the Brotherhood, or be Mubarak himself or, worst of all, could actually be Muslim!!! In which case, we shouldn't believe this story and truly believe that the Muslims abducted her, and then in a dramatic Hollywood-like episode, escape her captors and returned to her home after the period of vacation that she had approved from her place of employment.

hmmm...it appears Paul Hof has returned from Egypt...

So forbid the word "jihad," forbid the media from identifying jihadists as "Muslim," and then claim the Muslims are being victimized when the public recognizes that Muslims are once again engaged in jihad? More of Muhammad's deceit.

In the original (not rewritten by Muhammad) Bible, it is satan who is called the deceiver and the father of lies, and that is done to condemn people to hell (i.e., trick them into indulging their lusts for power, sex, revenge, etc.) not take them to paradise. If Muslims were free to question Islam, there would be a lot of questions.

In the original (not rewritten by Muhammad) Bible, it is satan who is called the deceiver and the father of lies, and that he does it to condemn people to hell (i.e., trick them into indulging their lusts for power, sex, revenge, etc.) not take them to paradise. If Muslims were free to question Islam, there would be a lot of questions.

I missed this thread earlier & just read through it. And the question that occurred to me was:

What if remorseless Roland were actually right on this one; that the girl will "turn up...with no muslim involvement?" What would that change? Islam will still be an ignorant mob of violent criminals. Coptic Christians will still be persecuted by muslim thugs in Egypt. And Roland will still be a muslim imbecile who failed his "Troll 101" class at the Joseph Goebbels Institute for Taqiyya Studies.

So, if what Roland is saying turns-out to be correct he'll have gloating-rights on this one. Small compensation indeed for being a third-rate human-being--and a more-than worthwhile tradeoff if this girl is found safe and sound...

That's a revealing answer, coming as it does from a muslim, Roland. Islam is all about,"The end justifies ANY means." Any kind-of crime, from simple lying to mass murder is codified, sanctified and celebrated--as long as it advances islam's sinister ends. Propaganda, you say? How about islam calling itself the "Religion of Peace?" Now, we all know that that's horse-poop, don't we Roland? And islamic propaganda descends to the very gutter of mendacity from there.

But listen to you cry, Roland, when your own tactics are turned-back on you! "But, but, that's no fair! We're the only ones who get to use severe and perverted propaganda."
"Why, this is an outrage," you bluster in your righteous indignation. Getting a liitle hot in your islamic kitchen, Roland? You should have thought of that before you turned-up the heat!

Here's a newsflash for you, Rolaid, er, Roland.
Islam is the outrage. Righteous indignation is not your sole province, rather the universal harvest muslims like you sow but lack the balls to reap. Expect your own methods to be reciprocated against you. Expect more and more free people to see through islam's transparent veil to the rotten core within. Expect to lose and you won't be disappointed, Roland.

Anything that advances the Godless ends of islam is OK with you. Anything that discredits islam and deters that advance is OK with me. And that's the real point, isn't it, Roland?

'Roland' and 'An American', you both are either totally blind or heavily sick with fanaticism: do you really mean that in the so called Muslim countries there is concience, speech and, in general, expression freedom in the same degree with the Western societies? If you believe such a thing there is nothing more to discuss indeed.

As for the 'jizya'... even if it is the money the non Muslims give for their not having military service etc (which is a very recent explanation of some modern Muslim apologists) it is because of their not being able to work on government ranks in the so called Muslim states. Because they are stripped off, in a clearly obligatory way, from the right to become involved in any decision making related to state affairs.

Any non Muslim who has spent some years in 'Muslim countries' knows those things by first hand experience.

I can agree with the fact that there are some excess in some interprations of some events in this blog, with that sometimes someone may have an impression as if all the problems of this world have to do solely with Islam but... in general no one may say that Islam's nature as an eschatological worldview tied strictly and organically to an expansionist-totalitarian political system is not constituting one of the most serious dangers in the present times.

And, no need to say, despite some mistaken 'readings' of some events that may be existing here, in this place, there is undoubtedly a good will and a genuine concern about a very serious, as said, danger that the humanity is facing nowadays.

Note: a very characteristic issue, for example, that I do find mistaken in JW interpratation of some events is the Kosovo case... A case that it has to do most surely with an ethnic clash which it is seen stubbornly as an Islam related problem. The fact that there may be Muslim fanatics between the Kosovars does not change the general fact. Even nations belonging the the very same Christian creed have went through ethnic cleansing efforts towards each other in the most merciless way in past times in Balkans (see the case of Greeks and Bulgarians, both Eastern Orthodox Christians, during their nation-state building struggles when the Ottoman empire was in its final decline). Every clash is not necessarily because of Islam. There may be other reasons too.