The use of amputation, though it differs slightly from exact Qur'anic prescriptions (are we thus to understand it has "nothing to do with Islam?"), suggests Qur'an 5:33: "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom."
"Jihadi's [sic] chopped hands of Malayalam Professor - 'Crusaders' get the taste of 'Jihad'," from Haindava Keralam, July 4 (thanks to GS):
THODUPUZHA: Christians in Kerala now started getting the true taste of Jihad . Five Jihadi fanatics today chopped of the hands of Malayalam Professor.
A Malayalam professor T J Joseph of the Newman College, who is under suspension for preparing a defamatory question for an exam paper, was attacked by a gang of five men at Muvatupuzha when he was coming back from church.
His crime - A question prepared by the professor for a Exam was offensive to Jihadis.
Government Action - Government who never misses a point to score when it comes to the matter of winning Jihadi hearts suspended the Professor.
Jihadi's who have scant regard to rule of the land decided to impose Sharia punishment to this professor. Professor Joseph and his family were attacked by Jihadi's today when he was coming back from Church after attending Sunday mass.
Repeated warnings of Hindu organisations in Kerala about the growth of Jihadi fanatics in Kerala were repeatedly brushed aside by so called 'Secular Soceity' [sic] as the propaganda of Hindu Communalists.
I looked at other offerings at this same site. It also contains a lot of articles that discuss Christianity and missionary work in India in a very negative light. What this Hindu-oriented site has to say about Christianity is almost as bad as what it has to offer regarding Islam.
True -- even this article has some of that tone. The sense of moral equivalence is unfortunate, but all too standard.
From a commentator on that site:
"Nandini 04/07/2010 10:07:00 Christians the real danger
Thanks for bringing this atrocity in Kerala by the Jihadis to light. The real danger to Hinduism according to me is the evangelists who are everyday converting more and more poor Hindus and vanvasis."
That is dangerous - conversion to a religion that says love one another, not a religion that chops off hands. hmmm...
170 people are gunned down in Mumabi by Jihadis, but the "real danger" is Christianity.
Never let a Muslim tell your "Shari'a law applies only to Muslims"...you hear that a lot in areas where Muslims want to install Shari'a law...but only for them.....
Everyone who believes that...go stand in the corner on your head...
Jihadi's [sic] chopped hands of Malayalam Professor - "Crusaders' get the taste of Jihad."
Any word on the text of the defamatory exam question? Or was it just too horrific to reprint?
*** Bukhari Vol 2 Bk 24 Nbr 555 ***
But, then again, maybe the newspaper quoted here is a Viacom property.
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/international/lecturers-palm-chopped-over-controversial-question-paper-780
A private college lecturer, out on bail after being arrested for preparing an alleged inflammatory question paper that had triggered protests by Muslims, was attacked and his right palm severed by unidentified persons at Muvattupuzha in the district on Sunday, police said.
The lecturer, T.J. Joseph, was dragged out of his car and hacked with sharp weapons by the assailants while he was returning from a church along with his family, including his sister and mother. His right palm was severed while he suffered cut injuries in his left leg, they said.
To both Mike Ryan and Marisol,
While there cannot be a moral equivalence between Christianity and Islam, you need to understand that the moment an Islam related issue comes up on the subcontinent, the stand the christians (and an average western man) take completely changes. The jihadi who is a criminal and intolerable terrorist, when he attacks the west, when it comes to India, suddenly appears to have a "point of view" and the conflict between jihadis and Hindus who are defending themselves becomes a reflection of that murderous tendency all eastern people seem to have.
Do you realize the christian community leaders in India always make common cause with jihadis against Hindu community and leaders ? I have myself been witness to many debates on TV where the christian and Muslim leaders rail against Hindu nationalists and speak in one voice.
Before you condemn this website (and I again say, if it shows moral equivalence between christianity and Islam, it has perhaps gone overboard against christians) and any antagonism you see in Hindus against christians, you need to ask why christians range themselves with jihadis and against Hindus in India.
Sanjay
Hindus don't have any problems with Christianity or Christians, and historically as well as in the present there was/is excellent harmony between the Hindu and Christian communities of India. But, on the other hand, there indeed is a present and serious problem of organized proselytizing and conversions activity (Hindus being the targets of conversion) in India that many Hindus consider to be a severe problem and an assault on Hinduism and the Hindu culture.
The scale of that conversion activity is enormous, as millions, and possibly tens of millions, of Hindus have been "converted" over the last decade or so. To understand the sentiment that Hindus feel on this, suppose that some 100,000 proselytizers, with money coming from EU/US/Australia/etc, descended on Israel with the intent to convert Israeli Jews en masse to Christianity. How would the Jewish people in Israel and in the diaspora then feel about such an activity? Not very favorably, as most of the readers here, both Jewish as well as non-Jewish, would probably agree.
Hinduism is a tolerant, secular and syncretic faith tradition, and many Hindus actually place pictures of Jesus in their prayer centers ("Puja Mandirs") at home.
I urge good Christians to not support the organized proselytizing activity that's going on against Hinduism in India, as it is an attack on Hinduism and because it ruptures the social fabric of India (which already faces significant problems of Islamist/Jihadist origin) and creates unnecessary tensions.
"His crime - A question prepared by the professor for a Exam was offensive to Jihadis."
perhaps a question that required the students to think about the answer....which if truthfully given would also be offensive to the Jihadis...
Do you realize the christian community leaders in India always make common cause with jihadis against Hindu community and leaders?
Why should that be surprising? Judeo-Christian clerics have been selling out to Islam for centuries. To use a word that resonates in this context, they do so because they're terrified.
Remember, on those rare occassions where Christians have dare to utter a critical peep on Islam (to wit: Pope Benedict, Rev. Robinson, Rev Franklin Graham) they were promply excoriated in the press. After these "leaders" are shut up, they turn their energies to trying to convert Hindus who just want to be left the hell alone.
Btw, Hindus have been their own worst enemy when it comes to Islam for centuries now too.
*** 8:7 ***
Self-censorhip is the key way Fictive Realities maintain and expand themselves. It's beautiful. Mohammed understood that when he put out murder contracts on Abu Afak and Asma Marwan for running their big mouths. Both were skewered in their sleep.
here is a powerpoint presentation on the incident.
http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/keralath-431402-christian-teacher-brutally-attacked-south-india-others-misc-ppt-powerpoint/
Pakistan had been roped off from the rest of the subcontinent as a feedlot for the Jihadis: however not all of them had been corralled.
Sanjay, thanks for the clarification you offered on this issue.
I have noticed that many Hindus actually revere Jesus as a deity, and have no problem including him as one of the deities in their pantheon, as well as including teachings in the Sermon on the Mount, etc. in their own.
I have heard Indians say that some tension between Christians and Hindus is indeed caused by missionaries, or in locales where formerly Hindu converts have in fact commited crimes against Hindu symbols and saints.
This is not to indicate a belief in moral equivelancy on my part, but rather to discuss various facets of the issues that might be at work in this question. Sometimes black and white are clearly delineated; but often they are not, and it is up to us to delineate the shades of gray to the best of our ability.
This detail is from Indian Express:
"The question paper, for an internal degree exam in March, contained a text taken from an article written by P T Kunjumuhammed, a director of several award-winning films and former CPI(M) legislator.
Referring to his film Garshom, Kunjumuhammed explained in the article that the thread for a scene in the movie, in which the protagonist speaks to God, was picked from his own experience about a madman who used to speak to God. While reproducing the conversation as a passage for punctuation, Joseph replaced the mad man with Muhammed, thus making it seem like a dialogue between God and Muhammed."
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/controversial-question-paper-lecturers-hand-chopped-off/642261/
The attack was carried out by members of an Islamic organisation in Kerala - the Popular Front, which calls its political wing Social Democratic Party of India (SDPI), as misleading a handle as one can imagine, but useful to lull the Indian and Kerala media into secular slumber. War is deceit, and if the Kuffar does not even know there's a war going on against him, the better the chances of victory.
Here's more coverage:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/controversial-question-paper-lecturers-hand-chopped-off/642261/
A left-wing newspaper called The Hindu reports on the incident while conspicuously leaving out that it was Muslim fundamentalists (only referring to them as "anti-social elements"):
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-kerala/article500894.ece
It shows once again the nexus between the Left and Islamic fundamentalism.
Excellent answer Sanjay and WWJD.
Its time the Christians in India and Nepal stop bashing the Hindus and realize who the real target should be.
>> Btw, Hindus have been their own worst enemy when it comes to Islam for centuries now too
I completely agree. Hindus are a semi - dhimmified lot and sometimes it is extremely disheartening to see the way we respond to jihadi threat to our nation and civilization that has much to be proud of.
When I see near identity between the way modern day India responds to Islam and the way the western nations do, I have come to think that that is the cross of all liberal societies that do not brainwash their young into regimenting them against other peoples and that do not use threats to keep the flock in line with the objectives of their society, but depend more on open advocacy to achieve whatever they want to achieve.
Right minded people have to just figure out a way of moving ahead with this constraint also.
Sanjay
Keep in mind, Arish Sahawney, Narain Kataria, Babu Suseelan, Moorthy Muthuswamy are all BJP supporters
and they show up for every anti-islam function, whereas not a single Indian christian ever shows up for an anti-islam function
The christian leadership in India feels that if Hindus get united against islamic terror, they will be much harder to convert and thats why they support the Indian jihadis- example Dinesh D'Souza
christian and Muslim leaders rail against Hindu nationalists and speak in one voice
It's the same all over the world: modern leaders have no clue about the seriousness of jihadist beliefs. They really believe that giving in to muslim demands will keep the peace, like giving a child sweets will keep it quiet for some time.
Beside the fact that they have no honour, no pride and no backbone, of course.
I sure hope that the Hindu nationalist party wins the next election and starts cleaning house.
Looks like the BJP apologists are out in force. The fact is the Hindu cowards usually take out their inadequecies on the Christians, as is well attested by the killing and harrasment of Christians in Orissa. Hindu toughs are too cowardly to attack either the Muslims or Maoists, they being of a violent and unpredictable nature. Christians on the hand are inviting targets. What resistance can a bunch of nuns running orphanages and schools offer?
Sanjay, WWJD and others:
It is a shame that Christian leadership in India is not assertive against Islam as I would like. Though Very recently I have seen some encouragement - Christians taking a stand against 'Love Jihad'. Dinesh D'Souza is generally right on many issues but he is TOTALLY wrong on Islam. (He was interviewed by John Stossel yesterday on Foxnews.)
Hindus always complain against demographic change being brought about by Proselytizing but they conveniently forget the much wider demographic change that they bring about by immigrating to the West. Hindus consider it as their God given right to immigrate but rail against proselytizing by Christians. (I see that as double standard). In a democratic society - It is the numbers what matters regardless whether it is in USA/Europe or India. There are about 25 million Hindus in predominantly Christian countries. India has about the same number of Christians as well.
Looks like someone is again hiding his real identity behind a name that sounds like he belongs to another religion ! Too embarrassed about your religion to reveal your real identity !!
It would be easy to demonstrate that Hindus do counter Muslim violence with violence, but we Hindus don't take pride in attacking people, whether nuns or common Muslims. We leave that kind of gloating to people belonging to your religion (your REAL religion, that is !)
Such incidents where Hindus attacked other people (as in a riot), are a matter of embarrassment for us, whether the victims were nuns or mosque going Muslim with potential to turn into a jihadi.
Sanjay
@Ivan, in Orissa, the Maoists are xtians
following liberation theology
In north east India such as in Nagaland, xtians take help from Pakistan, Bangladesh and China
In north-east India xtians do forced conversion at gunpoint, do google up Baptis NLFT
In Orissa, the xtians did land grabbing from Hindus, and then faced retaliation after 30 years of this
Vishal Mangalwadi a noted Indian evangelists admits to open nexus between Maoists and Xtian missionaries
The Jesus film is shown in Maoist camps
The Indian maoists are led by CCOMPOSA- US based
The xtian Indian separatists in the north-east are often found in US baptist churches
Ben Grahams website has often praised these xtian separatist terrorists
And in Gujurat, where Hindus did retaliate against muslims, there is now peace and quiet and Modi's biggest enemies is the Xtian church
I agree with both Sanjay & WWJD. Majority of Hindus/Jains adore Jesus( I am one of them), but we do not prefer what goes on as christianity. It is not, it is "Paulnity"; the corrupt church of early 200/700 years after Christ, vitiated christianity. It became "Political" christianity, much like "political Islam." Fortunately,the reforms around 15th century brought back the "sermon on the mount" spirit of Christ, from the spanish rouges who invaded Mexico & Latin America and cruelly erased Incas & Mayan cultures. uprooted temples.
India has adopted a christian,Sonia Gandhi, as their leader.India Loved Mother Teresa.This will not be possible in the USof A.They will not accept anybody other than a christian as their leader. Even JFK, as a catholic had problems. So please understand and appreciate the tolerance of Hindu religion.
One can never,and no Hindu would, equate Jesus with Muhmmad. Jesus was a true messiah, a great personality and with whose asceticism, Hindus would identify readily. Hindus have always worshipped people who are sages and who have renunciated physical comforts & pleasures.
Jesus was one such personality. Unfortunately, organized Church as it came out to be is not following, Jesus who gave sermon on the mount. It has become political religion.
Hindus/Jains have never invaded any country. They have not induced convertion of people from any faith. They have never wishfully tried to expand their religion,though it is much older than either Christianity or Islam.
I completely agree with Sanjay, WWJD, Gorkhali, and barani. A vast majority of Hindus have no issues with Christianity and Christians. Christians continue to thrive in our country in all spheres of life. Bringing Christ's message of love and compassion brings no resistance from Hindus, who have a longstanding tradition of respecting all religions (unfortunately that includes the cult of islam as well). Christianity has been in India for a long time, from the time of St. Thomas who was welcomed by the then Hindu kings of South India. The current, occasional friction arises due to:
1) Aggressive and deceptive proselytizing, coupled with direct or indirect coercion. An example of such coercion is the setting up of so-called "tube wells for Christ" in the southern state of Tamilnadu after the last tsunami. The Hindus are forbidden to use these to draw water unless they embrace Christianity. I am sure Jesus would not approve of such tactics, but in his name the practice continues. In the ancient land of Hindus, these groups are using our water to try and covert us! How would Christians feel if Hindus in Christian lands set up "Hindu tube wells" or soup kitchens with the proviso that you have to embrace Hinduism to get anything from these sources. Interestingly, the same proselytizing is not directed towards the muslims. I wonder why?
2) Consistent display of common cause with jihadis and bad mouthing Hindus and Hinduism. This has assumed alarming proportions in North Eastern states like Nagaland where missionaries are actively involved in conversion at gun point and promoting slogans like "Nagaland for Christians". Would any Christian country accept this kind of behaviour from Hindus?
Between an ordinary Christian and Hindu, there is no friction because we believe in "live and let live". We honour Christianity with public holidays (Christmas and Easter); we have Christians in powerful political positions, armed forces, and the like. I challenge anyone on this forum to show me a country where Hindus are accorded the same privilege.
Ironically, "love jihad" is now the bringing the sworn enemies together. Christian and Hindu groups that had been at each other's throat over religious conversions have now vowed to join forces to combat the alleged campaign.
"Both Hindu and Christian girls are falling prey to this. So we are cooperating with the VHP [Vishwa Hindu Parishad, a fundamentalist Hindu group] on this," K S Samson, from the Kochi-based Christian Association for Social Action (CASA), told the Times of India.
When CASA got to know of a Hindu schoolgirl who had become a victim of "love jihad", it "immediately referred the case to the VHP", he said.
The "love jihad" phenomenon - which may just be linked to a few religious-minded Romeos - could have been comical had it not deepened domestic hostility towards India's Muslim minority. There are fears that the use of the word "jihad", often interpreted as meaning holy war, may give extremist Hindu and Christian groups an excuse to justify attacks on Muslims.
Kerala church drops opposition to love Jihad to appease muslims
Kochi, Dec. 14 -- The Kerala Catholic Bishops' Council (KCBC), the umbrella organization
of the bishops of all the 29 dioceses of
the Catholic Church in Kerala, has decided to mellow its stand on Love Jihad, allegedly a terror-assisted campus-based programme for converting non-Muslim girls into Islam by trapping them in love affair.
Though the informal explanation offered by the KCBC is that the tough stand expressed earlier, opposing the reported conversion campaign, did not have the endorsement of the council. The church had earlier through an article in a KCBC publication that Love Jihad was an evil programme against which girls, their parents and the society as a whole had to be on constant alert.
The council, after a four-day conference which concluded the other day in Kochi, gave strict instructions to the concerned forums of the church not to take any stand that could endanger the religious harmony prevailing in Kerala. It also advised the church forums to keep utmost restraints when dealing with issues like Love Jihad.
When hearing of the Orisa pogroms, I had the initial feeling that these were naked acts of aggression by Hindus against innocent Christians. Upon looking deeper into the incidents, I discovered that the lower caste Hindu converts to Christianity had seized public land which is sacred to the animist Hindus in that region and whose untouchability was sacred to the local traditional population. Christian use of the land was considered sacrilege. Also, there seems to have been an elderly Hindu holy man who was murdered by local Christians. There does not seem to have been a concerted attack against the Orisa Christians for their beliefs per se, but there was a perceived (on the part of local Hindus) threat of long-standing against them by the Christian converts and missionaries.
I am not justifying anyone's crimes, just trying to understand what caused the violence.
There does not seem to have been any attempt to actions or intent on the part of the Hindu belligerents that can be compared to the jihadist's organized campaign of persecution and oppression of non-believers.
Many christians consider muslims to be 'closer' to them, since both are apparently monotheistic and abrahamic faiths.
They like making common cause with 'monotheistic' muslims against 'idolatrous' Hindus. That's why you'll notice the sarcastic tone of this artice 'now they are getting a taste of jihad too'.
Of course, christianity (or any other religion) cannot be compared with Mohammedan religion. JW readers know that.
Btw, they chopped off the right hand and left leg is injured. These jihadis were trying to carry out the islamic amputation of cutting opposite limbs.
The professor should atleast have carried a gun :( The communist govt of kerala obviously didnot provide him any protection.
*** Many christians consider muslims to be 'closer' to them, since both are apparently monotheistic and abrahamic faiths. ***
I have been trying to correct my co-religionist asking them the questions is worshipping SATAN(allah) or idols more sinful? Obviously Moslems should be more sinful in the eyes of Christians.
After 911 many in the west are waking up to understand the differences between Christianity and Islam.
*** That's why you'll notice the sarcastic tone of this artice 'now they are getting a taste of jihad too'. ***
There is obvious mistakes within Christian leadership in India to side with moslems but the real reason for Hindu Nationalist to not like Christians is becuase of conversion.
When the west can tolerate so many Hindu immgrants there is no reason for Hindus to complain about demographic change through conversion when they themselves bring about demographic change in the west through immigration.
There could be some of it (I don't know about it so taking what you said in face value) but there were other egregious violation like Graham Stains (http://www.wogim.org/stains.htm)
The real reason for the violence by Hindus is that they see violence by Moslems in Moslem majority countries is hampering conversion so they are just using the same tool to stem conversion.
"When the west can tolerate so many Hindu immgrants there is no reason for Hindus to complain about demographic change through conversion when they themselves bring about demographic change in the west through immigration."
Most Hindu immigrants in the west are part of a tiny elite class. A small fraction of the population even knows anything about 'West'. I can't see why tribals and rural folk will be more tolerant to missionaries, for our sake. They simply want to be left alone.
Say I walk into a small town in Bible belt, and start railing against Jesus Christ. I am sure, the reaction will be hostile. Same thing happens in India. If westerners visit for tourism, or gainful employment, they are warmly welcomed. If they visit for conversions, they are still protected by the law, but face some hostility.
"There could be some of it (I don't know about it so taking what you said in face value) but there were other egregious violation like Graham Stains"
The murderer of Graham Stains is awaiting his death penalty.
"The real reason for the violence by Hindus is that they see violence by Moslems in Moslem majority countries is hampering conversion so they are just using the same tool to stem conversion."
Comparison with Muslims is rather over-board. In a muslim country, Graham Stains would have been tried and executed for spreading fitna. In India, every protection is afforded by law, and the murderers are punished.
Also, politically the most powerful person in India is Sonia Gandhi, a Roman Catholic. Again, unthinkable in a muslim country.
*** Most Hindu immigrants in the west are part of a tiny elite class. *** Big Bull S***.
Don't go by the email chain that says 34% of Nasa scientists are of Indian Origin..... Get your facts straight. Vast Majority of Hindus in the west are not part of the elite. Are there some very successful hindus? yes... it is absolutely true. But some or a few does not equate to 'Most'.
** If westerners visit for tourism, or gainful employment, they are warmly welcomed **
Your definition is not very different from a Neo-Nazi definition of who is welcome to the West
" If Hindus or Moslems visit for tourism they are warmly welcomed"
"Don't go by the email chain that says 34% of Nasa scientists are of Indian Origin..... Get your facts straight. Vast Majority of Hindus in the west are not part of the elite."
They are part of the Indian elite. Relative to the vast majority of people living in India. Hope that makes the meaning more clear. Now, please read the post again, in this light.
"Your definition is not very different from a Neo-Nazi definition of who is welcome to the West"
You are cherry picking one statement, and editing it too. What would be the reaction if I walk into a southern town and rail against christ?
"Your definition is not very different from a Neo-Nazi definition of who is welcome to the West"
And neither was this my definition, or the way I think, things should be. They were statements of fact, or a description of what the ground reality is.
"Love jihad" is even pronounce here, in the Midwest. I always wonder what is in the minds of the American young women when they hook-up with young islamic men. I think its the "dangerous, bad-boys" turn-on, or maybe an act of rebellion against their parents who might actually really be racists. Regarding the Hindu/Christian issue, I think that Christians should leave Hindus alone, regarding conversion. Making Jesus available is cool but Hindus have done fine for thousands of years. islame should just get lost permanently. Other than the natural kindness of some enlightened, non-malefic individuals who might have had the misfortune to have been born into this pseudo-religion, islame serves no constructive purpose whatsoever.
Mike,
More important than land grab, what started Orissa violence was the killing of an 80 year old Hindu monk named Laxmananand who was reconverting christians back to hinduism. Along with him, three others were killed including his nurse.
The killings were carried out by christians who did not like his converting christians back to hinduism, thus nullifying the effort of christian missionaries in Orissa.
Law does not allow rioting or killing even if there is a grave offence. One Hindu nationalist party representative was convicted last week for rioting that resulted in killing of a christian. He is in prison for 7 years.
I think Hindus have not acted so unfairly towards anyone. Though there are incidences of rioting which Hindus too indulge in but at least the ones that happened in the last 15 years, all were started by Muslims or Christians.
Hindu mainstream believes in upholding law and such Hindus as indulged in rioting, whatever the provocation, are either under trial or have been convicted. Sure enough, those who started riots too have been tried and / or convicted.
The core issue that has emerged is - Christians in India have far more hatred for Hindus than for Muslims and consistently ally with Muslims. I have personally taken a lot of humiliation at the hands of either Indian Christians or those Hindus who studied at schools run by Christians.
This is something that should concern all anti - jihadis in the west. I am saying all the above because sometimes you folks seem to wonder why Hindus are antagonistic towards Christians.
Sanjay
The Hindus in the West who are agitated about the excesses of islam, are in fact much more extreme in their partisanship than the Hindus in India. This is most easily explained by the fact that few if any of these fellows have to make sacrifices that would match their rhetoric. They talk a good game on the internet and at the office cooler, but in general they are useless when it comes to any kind of direct action. One respects the Israelis who who are liable to be called at a moments notice in defence of their homeland. The Hindus in the West are nowhere in that league., more likely when they are back home, they tagging along with Momma and Poppa looking for some dowry instead.
Don't go by the email chain that says 34% of Nasa scientists are of Indian Origin.....
Which is as good an explanation as any as to why NASA is now in strictly 'maintenance mode'. The glory days of von Braun, Frank Molina and Bernard Schriever are well and truly over. Lest anyone think that I am picking on the Hindus, let it be noted there is a particularly large group of Indian Christians of the idiotic Pentecostal variety - don't wear any gold jewelery as Jesus frowns on ostentation, but multiple bank accounts are OK - based in Houston.
They're not fanatics. They're just rank and file moslems, a little more militant than the majority of their islamic yoke-fellows. Anyone who doesn't believe in their disgusting and barbaric behavior couldn't BE a moslem. Every moslem is my enemy, just as every moslem is your enemy. Why do we continue to beat about the bush? It's us or them, and at the moment these filthy savages are one up, thanks to our space chicken journalists and pedagogues.