"Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." -- Qur'an 4:34
And what if the beating doesn't work? Yaya Sujana found a solution. People will say, of course, that this has nothing to do with Islam, and that men murder and dismember their wives in all cultures, and that is true. But a culture that considers that the supreme god has ordered men to beat disobedient women has created a culture of violence that can lead all too easily to this kind of thing.
"Indonesian Man Murders, Slices Up Wife With Kitchen Knife Because of Nagging," from the Jakarta Globe, July 19:
An Indonesian man allegedly strangled his wife to death and then spent nine hours carving up her body with a kitchen knife because of her constant nagging, police in West Java said on Monday.Adjutant Comr. Agung Masloman, chief detective with Bandung Police, confirmed that police had arrested Yaya Sujana, 45, a carpenter, for the murder and dismemberment of his wife, Liliana, 40, in their house in the Soreang Indah housing complex on Wednesday night.
"We arrested the perpetrator on Sunday at 5 p.m," Agung said. "He admitted that he killed the victim and mutilated her because she always yelled at him."
Yaya strangled Liliana in the bathroom," he alleged.
"Yaya spent nine hours mutilating the victim. It was conducted with a kitchen knife from 7 a.m. to 4.30 p.m.," Agung said. "After he mutilated the victim, he put the body parts in two cardboard boxes and three buckets before disposing of them in two places" in Bandung as well as Garut district....
You mean he didn't spend 9 hours carving her up with a knife before strangling her to death? I don't know if this is sadistic enough to please Allah.
Hey - c'mon - the biotch was pushing his buttons!! - it's clear who the REAL victim is here - the poor long-suffering guy...(just ask that Buffalo-Beheader)
"After he mutilated the victim, he put the body parts in two cardboard boxes and three buckets before disposing of them in two places" in Bandung"
Endows with new meaning that famous phrase, "The Spirit of Bandung."
Yaya spent nine hours mutilating the victim.
Well, at least she went the halal way.
*** Tabari 8:180 ***
It sounds like this murderer was one conscientious Moslem.
Why take all this trouble of killing and carving up an intolerable wife when divorce is so very easy in Islam - at least for men?
Islam can only be part of the explanation. There must be an irrational and very strong emotional reason as is often the case with crimes within the family.
I once knew a very nice and polite Danish man who had killed his wife, cut her up in small pieces with an ax and dumped the remains in a dunghill.
He loved the wife very dearly but she constantly humiliated him, refused to have sex with him because he was no god in bed and she openly had affairs with other men and bragged about it to her husband.
One day this nice man snapped and went for the ax. He was sentenced to 10 years in prison and became an exemplary, trusted convict and assistant to the prison chaplain. He had found comfort in Christianity.
I liked him so much that I gave him a present. A rare 1889 first edition of “ Boganis Jagtbreve” (Letters about Hunting by Boganis) a pseudonym for Wilhelm Dinesen, the father of Karen Blixen. The ax murderers hobby after being reformed and giving up marriage and women was wild life and hunting, he had told me.
In 1873/74 Dinesen was living in the woods of Wisconsins as a hunter. For some time he lived among the Indians and learned their way of life and concept of nature. The Indians gave him the name “Boganis” (meaning hazelnut) and he used it as a pseudonym in his literary career.
I read the whole story...couldn't find anything saying Yaya was a Muslim. But he probably was, taking all day to get rid of a used wife is typical Muslim inefficiency, he would have had to stop for three prayer breaks and wudu to get the blood and gore off his hands, and then look for a clean carpet so he wouldn't get his zebibah besmirched...or maybe he just wanted to savor the moment of his victory over his oppressing former sex-slave and tilth.
Cat Stevens, who now sashays around in fancy dress with an exotic sounding Islamic name wrote a song about this: 'The First Cut is the Deepest.'
LOL! He also wrote a song about Mo's wife Aisha, "So Very Young..."
Ipso, and others, murdering a spouse for one thing or another happens in all cultures. Your Danish friend may well be an object lesson in why everyone, including a much-beloved wife, needs to learn how to tame the tongue. Something tells me that had he been a little more rational and less ready to be goaded, he might have made proper use of Denmark's divorce laws himself.
My guess is that this Indonesian had a real piece of work for a wife!
And:
Xanthippe her Socrates bugged,
Her curses his tender ears mugged.
She was lousy in bed
And poured pi$$ on his head.
No wonder the poor guy died drugged!
Solomon himself, that man with 700 wives and 300 concubines, said in Proverbs 21 that it was better to live in the corner of a housetop than in a wide house with a brawling woman; then a few lines later, wrote that it would be better to live in the wilderness than in a broad house with such a wife. Apparently, one of those 1000 Mrs. Solomons might have been murdered if King Solomon had a lesser portion of divine grace!
Misogyny is ugly. No matter who advocates it.
Islam may not have caused it, but Islam did not prevent it either...Allah wills everything that happens...
"Your Danish friend may well be an object lesson in why everyone, including a much-beloved wife, needs to learn how to tame the tongue. Something tells me that had he been a little more rational and less ready to be goaded, he might have made proper use of Denmark's divorce laws himself."
But that´s the whole point. You don´t fall in love for rational reasons but solely for irrational. And as long as the love last you stay irrational.
You don´t fall in love with a girl because she is beautiful but when you do she becomes beautiful and perfect in your eyes. She can do nothing wrong. That's the so called magic of love, a mental delusion and deviation from rationality.
In principle this is the same that happens to Muslims. They fall in love with the perfect man Muhammad, and whatever he did becomes the right thing to do. Only the love that never reach its target will last forever. That is why love of god is often an eternal love affair, absent of a physical object and therefore it must be repeatedly expressed in submission and rituals of worship.
When telling a Muslim that Muhammad was a barbaric monster and child molester you receive the same type of irrational and murderous hatred as if someone told you that your beloved wife looks like and old worn out whore and talks like a pissed fishwife. You want to kill the foul mouthed bastard.
But some day you may wake up, come back to reality and realize that the foul mouthed bastard was speaking the truth. And then you kill your wife instead. ;-)
islam holds women in such high regard (sarc!), which is why I find this headline hard to believe (second sarc!).
Barbaric, btw ...my gawd!
Kepha
am I reading you right?
You are actually arguing that if a woman has a sharp tongue, perhaps a very sharp tongue, she *deserves* to be murdered? That all we wicked wimmen here better learn a lesson from this instructive episode in Indonesia, and hold *our* tongues and be very, very nice and very, very submissive, else our own husbands may do that to us, too, with your approval or at least your sympathetic understanding?
Remember: how do we *know* that this woman, who was strangled and then cut up carefully into many little pieces, was as much of a nagger as the Indonesian newspaper says she was? On whose evidence? Let's remember: Muslims lie.
Muzzammil in New York, who beheaded his wife, vows and declares that *she*, too, was an evil witch (that seems to be the gist of his self-defensive statements) who simply drove him to kill her. Did we believe him? Do we believe him? And even if she *was* a nag; does that excuse his *cutting off her head*?
Obviously this is proof of our vastly superior non-Muslim values since we don't have any brutal murders in the United States.
Islam caters to immature, inadequate, insecure abusers of women. Sharia law codifies total domination/control and abuse of women and lets men shirk off any personal responsibility for their own actions. Such principals are against God's gift of reason, unnatural, and thus perverted, not to mention in complete conflict with the original Bible (not rewritten by Muhammad), God's true revelations.
I always get called a "troll" or a "secret Muslim" when I respond to articles like this, but it doesn't make my repeated point any less valid
Just because a guy from Indonesia butchered his wife doesn't make Islam the cause (in this case). Could it just be that this was just like the thousands of cases here in America where some dude goes crazy and kills his wife?
Even if Islam permits the abuse of women does not mean that is what motivated this guy to do it. He is obviously an unstable guy who let his wife's "nagging" get the worst of him. But I have yet to see you guys show me one fact that shows how Islam motivated this murder.
When an Islamic terrorists commits an act, or an Islamic ruling is enforced then you are totally correct to argue Islam as the cause, but in cases like this Islam has nothing to do with the incident.
You guys often make good points, but you loose clout when you take any crime committed by some evil scum in Indonesia and then try to link it to Islam. Mr. Spencer tries to dismiss my point even in his post when he says that Islamic culture accepts this behavior, but that again does not mean this particular incident had anything to do with Islam because THIS MAN WILL BE PUNISHED FOR HIS CRIME.
As usual, I am now prepared for the "you're a troll/secret Muslim" comments since none of you are willing to actually have a discussion.
"My guess is that this Indonesian had a real piece of work for a wife!"
You presume that his wife must have had a really bad case of an "untamed tongue" that this drove him to not only murder her, but also to mutilate her body for the next nine hours.
I don't think so. It doesn't take a lot of provocation, or any real provocation at all, for such a man who is so inclined to such evil to commit the utterly despicable crime that he committed.
I must admit that it is a bit disturbing and rather strange that you seem to have some sympathy for this demon-possessed murderer, but not any sympathy at all for his wife whom he murdered.
Instead, you pointed out that this should serve as a lesson to all (other women?) to control their tongues so as not to meet the same fate (or a similar fate) that this woman met at the hands of her otherwise good and loving husband?
Perhaps you want to clarify your position.
No, it is not justification (there is no justification for that abuse). It is call rationalization.
It's not just a question of permitting it (although permitting that is injustice in itself). He did it purposely, in accord with Islamic law and ideology, and with the full support (aggressive or passive) of the "Muslim world." It's a matter of codifying the practice as law (Sharia law)wherein the victim has no rights, no recourse (in Sharia courts, a woman's testimony is half that of a man's and abuse is sanctioned), and those who would stand up for the victim risk being labeled apostate (if a Muslim) or going out of the bounds of dhimmitude (if a non-Muslim) and risk being legally killed that makes it so much more evil. It is codified domestic violence, among other atrocious, unconscionable behaviors, that is presumed upon Muslims and non-Muslims alike. And, the global jihad seeks to make the whole world subject to Sharia law.