So there shouldn't be a problem, right? Wrong. That does not begin to exonerate Islam from playing a role in stonings committed under Islamic law.
Apologists like to give the impression that Islam is a sola scriptura affair, relying entirely on the content of the Qur'an. It makes it easier to sell unbelievers the notion of the Qur'an as uncreated, complete unto itself, and not dependent on the cultural and temporal context in which it was purportedly revealed to Muhammad.
But that is not the case, and in that regard, the "experts" in the story below are being incredibly disingenuous. There is a Qur'an-only movement within Islam, but it is an extreme minority view at variance with the views of the major sects.
Indeed, Islamic ritual and conduct depend intensely on the details provided by ahadith in Sunni as well as Shi'ite Islam, and while the collections differ in organization and emphasis (with the Shi'ite texts in general naturally affording greater importance to the imam Ali), they converge a great deal in letter and spirit.
Sunni hadith texts, including Sahih ("reliable") Bukhari, record Muhammad and his companions as being directly involved in stonings of men and women, and Muhammad is, of course, a "beautiful pattern of conduct" for believers, per Qur'an 33:21.
Better yet, the Bukhari collection posits that -- whoops -- the verses on stoning are curiously missing from the Qur'an:
'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him" (Sahih Bukhari 8.82.816).
Clearly, this tradition has survived on the Shi'ite side as well, and runs much deeper than apologists would have one believe.
"Quran doesn't call for stoning, experts insist," from CNN, July 9:
International outcry - and the pleas of a devoted son - seem to have saved an Iranian woman from being stoned to death for adultery.
But while Sakineh Mohammedie Ashitani has been granted a reprieve, she is not the only woman sentenced to be stoned for adultery in Iran. There have been at least six sentences carried out since 2006, says Ann Harrison, an Iran expert at Amnesty International in London.
Adultery is the only crime that carries such a penalty in Iranian law, she said.
Only a handful of countries have laws calling for stoning, and Iran is the only one that carries out executions that way, Amnesty International records suggest.
That is because Islam doesn't really want the punishment to be carried out, says Ziba Mir-Hosseini, an Iranian-born campaigner against the practice.
Why would a religion so otherwise fixated on submission and obedience to Allah and his prophet include a prescription for something that shouldn't really be put into practice?
"Stoning is not a Quranic punishment, it is Islamic jurisprudence. It happened later," says Mir-Hosseini, an expert on Iranian family law at London's School of Oriental and African Studies. "The punishment for any kind of sexual relations (outside of marriage) in the Quran is 100 lashes," she says....
And we're supposed to be okay with that cruel and unusual punishment as a substitute? For that matter, are we to believe that because it's "just" Islamic jurisprudence, it's less of a problem?
Read it all. While the story later acknowledges the presence of stoning in the ahadith, it continues its line of deception in downplaying the role of the ahadith, and falsely elevating a Qur'an-only image of authentic Islam.
" Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse.."
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/05/soning-in-somalia-lapidation-en-somalie.html
If Octavia Nasr hadn't been fired, she'd would have been responsible for peddling this shameless lie... Just as she said that Mein Qurampf isn't to be read and understood literally, but that it's open to many different interpretations.
Recently I posted a comment on CNN, in reply to people saying Christianity is as bad as Islam, by comparing the things Mohammad did to the things Jesus did. I mentioned that Mohammad sold slaves, condoned rape and slavery and abuse, and personally had critics assassinated and surrendered captives executed. It was deleted by the CNN mods. I posted it again. It was deleted almost immediately. Now, whereever I go, whenever I post something about Islam, if it lasts at all, it is up for about 2 minutes, before CNN deletes it. They hate the truth at that joke of a station.
I've seen people say the same about the Huffington Post...
CNN lost it's last bit of sanity when they fired Lou Dobbs and all the station is now is a limousine liberal frat house.
There is a Qur'an-only movement within Islam,
I have had a long, drawn out, interaction with a Pakistani Mahoundian who rejects anything outside the Quran...Hadith according to him are frauds, and not worth the paper they are written on...
He also trips himself up a lot...Sometimes He's funny...If you mention Aisha, he would ask, 'who is that? I don't know such a person'...
'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book,"
Umar knew that aya would be eaten by that darned goat...and warned of it ahead of time...But they didn't listen...
http://schnellmann.org/stoning_bukhari_muslim.pdf
PDF 202 KB
There are many ahdadih in Sahih Bukhari + Sahih Muslim
(Sahih: Arabic word for correct, authentic)
http://newstime.co.nz/stoning-in-iran-children-beg-for-the-life-of-their-mother.html
The Lord of Torture orders Muslims punish and torture adulters and unbelievers:
Quran 24:2 "YUSUFALI: The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes"
Quran 24:4
"YUSUFALI: And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;- "
Quran 5:33
"YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;"
Quran 5:38
"YUSUFALI: As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power."
etc.
Stoning isn't in the Quran.
OK, I'm relaxed.
...and y'all peace lovers can ignore the AR and 12 ga. that're not in my hands.
Cheers !
So giving her 100 lashes (she's already had 99) is somehow a humane alternative?
TROP is running an article today on a diabietic, hypertensive Saudi man with cardiac problems who was sentenced to receive 150 lashes spread out over 3 sessions (in addition to 6 months in prison). He filed an appeal due to his medical condition. In the meantime, he suffered a stroke that left him paralyzed on his left side. The prison refused to wait for the medical evaluation and appeal to be completed. As the man was nearing the end of his sentence, prison officials decided to whip him anyway as he sat paralyzed in his wheelchair.
They beat him until he went blind.
Now he is blind, paralyzed, diabetic, hypertensive, and has a bad heart. Oh, and he's also homeless now.
Is this the love and justice that is so often touted by the followers of the "Religion of Peace"?
Only a handful of countries have laws calling for stoning, and Iran is the only one that carries out executions that way, Amnesty International records suggest.
...............
Just Iran, huh?
Nigeria has sentenced women to death for "Zina"—that the women were pregnant was all the proof they needed. That Nigeria has succumbed to international pressure and has not actually gone ahead and stoned any of these women—yet—shows how moderate they are, I suppose.
Recently, a little 13-year-old *rape victim* was stoned to death in Somalia. I guess this doesn't count, since it was carried out in a Shebaab-controlled part of the country.
Let's see how many other technicalities we can find. Meanwhile, how many women are going to suffer under this barbaric sentence?
Then, of course, there is our "ally" Pakistan:
"Pakistan sentences woman to be stoned to death for "illicit relations": walking together with a man"
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/pakistan-sentences-woman-to-be-stoned-to-death-for-illicit-relations-walking-together-with-a-man.html
There is a Qur'an-only movement within Islam, but it is an extreme minority view...
So what if the command to stone transgressors to death isn't it the Ko-Ran?
*** 33:21 ***
Mohammed and his avatar Allah are in the Ko-Ran, and that is more than enough to reveal the text as vile, uncivilized, retrograde and extremely dangerous. If you can stomach it, read the thing. Not only is the content egregious, it is arguably the worst written book ever.
This awful book should be illegalized under hate crime laws. Such laws might be unconstitutional, but just this once the application of them would be highly productive.
Having none of them on our shores (except perhaps in strictly controlled reading cages in designated libraries) would improve the quality of life for everyone.
IN CANONICAL HADITH, MUHAMMAD REPEATEDLY ORDERS STONING
The Qur'an says a dozen or more times that Muhammad is to be obeyed; that is one reason why the vast majority of Muslims accept the hadith collections that Muslim scholars consider authoritative: those hadiths show what Muhammad did and said, and what he permitted and forbade.
In the most canonical hadith collection, Sahih Bukhari:
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 805:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah Al-Ansari:
A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to Allah's Apostle and Informed him that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse and bore witness four times against himself. Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married Person.
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 809:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. "What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?" They replied, "Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya." 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Allah's Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah." The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, "Lift up your hand." Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn 'Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess.
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 813:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
When Ma'iz bin Malik came to the Prophet (in order to confess), the Prophet said to him, "Probably you have only kissed (the lady), or winked, or looked at her?" He said, "No, O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet said, using no euphemism, "Did you have sexual intercourse with her?" The narrator added: At that, (i.e. after his confession) the Prophet [Muhammad] ordered that he be stoned (to death).
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 815:
Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid:
While we were with the Prophet [Muhammad], a man stood up and said (to the Prophet), "I beseech you by Allah, that you should judge us according to Allah's Laws." Then the man's opponent who was wiser than him, got up saying (to Allah's Apostle) "Judge us according to Allah's Law and kindly allow me (to speak)." The Prophet said, "'Speak." He said, "My son was a laborer working for this man and he committed an illegal sexual intercourse with his wife, and I gave one-hundred sheep and a slave as a ransom for my son's sin. Then I asked a learned man about this case and he informed me that my son should receive one hundred lashes and be exiled for one year, and the man's wife should be stoned to death." The Prophet [Muhammad] said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is, I will judge you according to the Laws of Allah. Your one-hundred sheep and the slave are to be returned to you, and your son has to receive one-hundred lashes and be exiled for one year. O Unais! Go to the wife of this man, and if she confesses, then stone her to death." Unais went to her and she confessed. He then stoned her to death.
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 817:
[excerpt from long hadith]...Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him. I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession...
Actually, I list in this post 25 instances of Quran verses (all of them linked to several online Qurans) ordering Muslims to obey Muhammad.
Britain's secret eavesdropping centre, GCHQ, has been criticised for failing to recruit enough ethnic minority staff to help fight terrorism.
"ethnic minority staff"? - Read - enough members of Global Jihadi Movement to help sabotage of the fight against terrorism
Is Obama a secret muslim?
Well here I listen to him praising Islam to the skies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY
And here mocking the Bible and Jesus?? and he claims he is a Christian? This was quite shocking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-V_ilJu0w&feature=related
PS - Obama refers to the Quran as the "Holy Quran" many many times. Never ever to the Quran, but notice when he ridicules the Bible in 2006 as a Senator, he does not refer to it as the "Holy Bible" just the Bible ... hmmmm strange behaviour for someone who claims that he is a Christian.
Thanks to traeh for this quote that shows the sharp contrast between the progressive Jews and the savage warlord Muhammad:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
"A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. "What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?" They replied, "Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya." 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Allah's Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah." The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, "Lift up your hand." Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn 'Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess."
Tajbiya is when the couple are mounted on a donkey, with their faces in opposite directions, then shamed by being paraded in public.
What this proves is that the Jews at that stage in history were far more civilised than Muhammad. They had modified the ancient law on stoning and innovated a milder punishment for adultery. Muhammad the fanatical literalist insisted that they revert to the ancient barbaric punishment.
Guess who Ibn Salam was? Yes, one of those converted self-hating appeasing Jews that we encounter even today trying to prove to the Muslims that he was a more fanatical Muslim than them.
Shafee al-Zindig,
Thanks for pointing that out -- I had not noticed how that hadith inadvertently testifies to the Jews' already progressive approach to punishing adultery...
Yes, and the Book of Acts in the original Bible (not rewritten by Muhammad in the seventh century after Jesus) and the traditions of the 12 Apostles (who the Bible says were taught privately by Jesus)regarding the sacraments have nothing to do with Christianity . . . Islam is just a perversion of the original. The Quran is a rewritten (dictated) version of what Muhammad knew of the Bible, and the Hadiths and Sira are like the Book of Acts and the Apostolic Traditions, except that they point toward Muhammad and his political aims. How is that directly from the hand of Almighty God?
So, women can be stoned to death for walking with a man, for being raped, for getting pregnant from rape, for reporting rape, etc., etc. It is an abuser's paradise where men blame the woman and have no responsibility except to defend their "honor." Unfortunately, this setup appeals to many men, even in this country.
Freedom loving women should disobey sharia law and prevent themselves from being fully circumcised. Granted that circumcision will stem the heat of passion and make a woman more loyal to her husband, but it also makes life less enjoyable. A fair compromise would be if only the tip of the clitoris was removed allowing some sensitivity to remain.
It is only by accident that stoning is not in the Qur'an. Aisha is reported as saying the verse about stoning and breast feeding an adult ten times was written down and it was under her pillow when Muhammad died. In the great confusion following his death a goat crept in and ate the verse.
I have always wondered why Allah didn't send Gabriel with a new copy of the verse; or was it the case that Al changed his mind and it was he who sent the goat to eat the verse.
"Morris Wise" wrote:
A fair compromise would be if only the tip of the clitoris was removed allowing some sensitivity to remain.
................
Here's a just proposal: a "compromise" between evil and decency.
Let's see: you would like to club me to death, and I would like you to refrain from such an act. Surely, then, a good "compromise" would consist of your being allowed to beat me into unconsciousness.
"Morris Wise" appears to be a vicious Shari'ah apologist, judging from his posts.
It is wrong for Western nations to condemn Islamic law that allows female circumcision. It has reduced promiscuity, unwanted pregnancies and has benefited the social structure of society. Modification of the clitoris will lower a woman’s desire for sex, and in doing so will reduce STD. A woman with a modified Clitoris is desired by older men who are not be able to match a younger woman’s sex drive. Clitoral surgery will reduce nervousness in in those who lack clitoral release and help lonely housewives. Western sexologists are now exploring Islamic cultures who have been using clitoral surgery for hundreds of years, it would not be surprising if a full clitoris become a rarity in the West.
Thousands of enlightened men in the west are demanding that their future brides undergo Clitoral surgery, It is a way of guaranteeing their fidelity. There is no advantage for a man to have a horny wife, only an obedient one. Upon command she should be willing to satisfy her husbands sexual needs even if she receives no clitoral pleasure. Another plus of having a wife with a modified clitoris is the guarantee that she will be a life long partner, her desire to meet a new husband will be gone.
The opportunity for a woman to cover her face has proven to be a big advantage for Muslims. It protects the woman against those that would exploit her for sexual reasons and gives her the freedom to go out past midnight without any fear of being molested. Rarely has a woman in a burka been raped or physically abused. Men also have an advantage of having the women in their family wearing a burka. It gives a man the feeling that his family is safe behind a cloth wall of protection.The punishment for a disobedient woman would be to take away her burka and let her roam the streets. She will shortly return with tears in her eyes after being sexually abused.
Those in the West that fear the expansion of sharia law should relax. It will return family values to a decadent society and make every man a king in his castle and every women a protected and cherished servant.
If your posting above was not the blackest of satire, deliberately parodying the bizarre thought-processes of Muslims, then you are a vile woman-hating Mohammedan sadist and sociopath and if you write just one more post like that - a post insulting to every non-Muslim woman and man who posts here - I will personally contact Marisol and ask that you be banned from this forum. And I think there are many others here who would agree with me.
The repulsive Shari'ah apologist "Morris Wise" wrote:
It is wrong for Western nations to condemn Islamic law that allows female circumcision...it would not be surprising if a full clitoris become a rarity in the West.
.................
Well, it didn't take much at all to make "Morris Wise" drop his mask.
More from the vicious "Morris Wise":
Thousands of enlightened men in the west are demanding that their future brides undergo Clitoral surgery, It is a way of guaranteeing their fidelity. There is no advantage for a man to have a horny wife, only an obedient one. Upon command she should be willing to satisfy her husbands sexual needs even if she receives no clitoral pleasure. Another plus of having a wife with a modified clitoris is the guarantee that she will be a life long partner, her desire to meet a new husband will be gone.
.................
"Thousands of enlightened men in the West"—would that include *anyone* other than Muslims who have brought their benighted creed with them to the civilized West from Dar-al-Islam? I didn't think so.
The way the execrable "Morris Wise" at once dismisses the importance of desire in a relationship, and at the same time appears to believe that there can be no other factors, is exceedingly disturbing.
The idea that a woman who who has undergone genital mutilation would have no other reason to "desire a new husband" is just bizarre. As if a woman would be perfectly content married to a man who threatens her, neglects her, and beats her, as long as she has had her sexual organs butchered.
I have been with my husband for twenty-two years. I have been loyal to him because I deeply love and respect him—not because I have been neutered.
Well, we know what the appalling "Morris Wise" thinks of Female Genital Mutilation. I wonder if he is a big a fan of the "benefits" of stoning women for the crime of "Zina", as well.
Nah ..."Morristhewise" is a silly plant, no one is really that brutishly idiotic.
The only explanation I can think of is that he is an agent provocateur attempting to make Muslims seem really, really backward. Or give apologists and worse reason to point to JW and say "look see, what idiots!"
Morris has fun in his own deeply twisted way. But I feel dirtied even writing in the same post as he.