But enraged Muslims in the area demanded blood for (alleged) pamphlets. "2,000 Muslim militants go on rampage in Faisalabad; acquitted Christians murdered," from Catholic Culture, July 21:
Two Pakistani Christians acquitted of blasphemy charges were murdered on July 19 as they left the courthouse. A police officer who accompanied them was injured in the attack.
Rashid Emmanuel and his brother, Sajid Emmanuel, had been arrested on July 4 after pamphlets critical of the Mohammed had been distributed. The brothers had grown up in a Catholic family; Rashid had recently become a Protestant pastor.
Following the murder of the brothers, some Christians took to the streets in grief and anger. "Emotional tension was high, there was some shouting, stone throwing against Muslim shops," said Father Khalid Rashid Asi, vicar general of the Diocese of Faisalabad, Pakistan's third largest city.
"2,000 Islamic militants-- urged at local mosques to 'fight the infidels'":
That night, 2,000 Islamic militants-- urged at local mosques to "fight the infidels"-- went on a rampage in Waris Pura, a Christian district of Faisalabad. "The mob was out of control, shops and streets were devastated, there was shooting, looting and torching," said Father Pascal Paulus, the local parish priest. "Some Christians were hurt, but the outcome could have been much worse."
Note the contrast in mentality in the following paragraphs:
"We, four priests, went from door to door, begging Christians not to react, to stay calm, to avoid provoking a dangerous spiral of violence and revenge," said Father Khalid Rashid Asi. "We reminded them: we belong to Christ, we love peace, we forgive our enemies."
"The angry mob attack caused panic, shops and other buildings were damaged, but no one was killed or seriously hurt, only a few had slight injuries," said Bishop Joseph Coutts of Faisalabad. "I must say that the authorities and the police were most efficient, they arrived immediately and the militants soon dispersed. Of course the defenseless, hunted Christian families are still under shock."
On the morning of July 20, Bishop Coutts offered the funeral Mass for the two brothers; 500 Catholics were in attendance. "Many of the faithful were still too frightened to leave their homes," added Father Khalid, the vicar general. "Some leading Muslim citizens expressed solidarity with the Christians and condemned the violence."
"Amidst general feelings of grief, pain and emotional tension, I told our people that we would offer the blood of these innocent men together with the Blood of Christ," said Bishop Coutts. "It will further our salvation and we hope, heal our city of Faisalabad of the sickness of hatred and violence."...
Dave...Quran 5:82, second part Dave...Why are these Mahoundians fighting with Allah over this?
"Hillery says these and similiar actions against the christians and hindus of Pakistan may derail the money express to that country while Obama summons the Pakistani ambassador to answer for these crimes against the minorities."
That could be the actions of sane reasonable people not a bunch of dhimmi fools.
"We reminded them: we belong to Christ, we love peace, we forgive our enemies."
And this is where Christianity proves itself to be dangerous to its followers. The death cult of Mohammad instructs killing of unbelievers. The suicide cult of Christ teaches loving those trying to kill you.
It's obvious what will happen when these two ideologies confront one another. One side will get enslaved and massacred, the other side will continue to grow and spread itself.
When you're at war, the only way you survive is by annihilating your enemy. Now some enemies can resolve their differences with reason, but with others like Islam, there is no compromising. The goal of Islam is to invade non-muslim land, multiply, conquer, repeat until the world is Islamified. Muslims have been doing this with great success for 1400 years.
The non-muslims in Pakistan are living in dar-ul-Islam, enemy territory. They're outnumbered and out-gunned, the only sensible thing to do is leave or they'll be subjected to occasional pogroms (like the Jews were in Europe and Arab countries) whenever the native savages want to satisfy their blood-lust.
Seeing that Pakistan is a hotbed of terrorism and the vast majority of muslims support jihad/war against us non-muslims, we should be at war against them as well as every muslim country until Islam disappears.
There will be no peace in the world as long as Islam exists. Its not to say people won't fight over other issues, but 1.5 billion people (muslims) are effectively at war against all non-muslims. That is the greatest issue the free world faces right now. It's a larger problem than Nazism/fascism was during WW2 and our elites still refuse to talk about it truthfully.
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It's obvious what will happen when these two ideologies confront one another. One side will get enslaved and massacred, the other side will continue to grow and spread itself.
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Yes, but didn't Christianity spread through persecution? The blood of martyrs has caused Church growth over the ages. Seeing people lay down their lives as Christ did is a powerful witness, 2000 years ago and today still.
We need to do all we can to speak truth and work for peace, but peace will never prevail until Christ returns.
A scant few centuries ago, Christianity largely spread itself through invasion and conquest (colonization of pagan lands) much as Islam has done and is doing today.
The modern form of 'peaceful' Christianity that we recognize today is a result of the Reformation and the Enlightenment (including the separation of church/state).
Many of the lands which used to be owned by Christians were conquered by muslims, who either forcibly converted them to Islam, allowed them to live as dhimmis/inferiors or massacred over 60 million of them.
But as an ideology Christianity is self-defeating and contradictory. One can find incitement to warfare in the Bible or the insane 'love your enemy' nonsense spewed by Jesus. Then there is the apathetic fatalism-if everything is a part of god's ultimate plan, then why defend yourselves against muslim onslaught? You're going to die anyways and be with your "father" in heaven-so why bother with this cruddy old world at all right?
While I believe Islam to be the most evil ideology ever invented in human history, one thing muslims are good at is warfare-which is why Islam has been so successful for so long. Look how easily muslims lie to our faces while they work to destroy us from within and prepare for war and our conquest right under our noses. Its not that we don't see it-we pretend not to, we lie to ourselves and each other about this threat. Such mistakes will cost us many lives and maybe even our civilization.
Bottom line here is that if Christianity and the West is to survive, we've all got to get a lot more militant about protecting our civilization. 'Loving your enemies' has been proven wrong a million times over and people still cling to this bit of idiocy. There will be no peaceful co-existence with muslims-either we win or they will. Anyone (pacifist Christians, liberals, appeasers, cowards) that is working towards this goal is a fool and will eventually be eliminated by muslims once they are no longer useful to them.
Excerpts from the 2009 International Religious Freedom Report on PAKISTAN
"...Freedom of speech is constitutionally, 'subject to any reasonable restrictions imposed by law in the interest of the glory of Islam.' ..."
"...Law enforcement personnel abused religious minorities in custody. Security forces and other government agencies did not adequately prevent or address societal abuse against minorities. Discriminatory legislation and the Government's failure to take action against societal forces hostile to those who practice a different religious belief fostered religious intolerance, acts of violence, and intimidation against religious minorities... "
"...religious minorities are legally restricted from public display of certain religious images..."
"...The consequences for contravening the country's blasphemy laws are death for defiling Islam or its prophets; life imprisonment for defiling, damaging, or desecrating the Qur'an; and 10 years' imprisonment for insulting another's religious feelings..."
"...Some individuals bring charges under these laws to settle personal scores or to intimidate vulnerable Muslims, sectarian opponents, and religious minorities... "
"...The Ministry of Religious Affairs...has on its masthead a Qur'anic verse: 'Islam is the only religion acceptable to God...' "
"...Authorities routinely used blasphemy laws to harass religious minorities and vulnerable Muslims and to settle personal scores or business rivalries... "
"...Mobs occasionally attacked individuals accused of blasphemy and their families or their religious communities. When blasphemy and other religious cases were brought to court, extremists often packed the courtroom and made public threats against an acquittal. Religious extremists continued to threaten to kill those acquitted of blasphemy charges. High-profile accused persons often went into hiding or emigrated after acquittal..."
"...In September 2008 a former federal minister and host of a popular religious television show declared on air that killing Ahmadis was the 'Islamic duty of devout Muslims;' at least two Ahmadis were killed in Sindh within 48 hours of this declaration...At the end of the reporting period, the the government continued to stall investigation into the deaths..."
"...Violence against and harassment of Christians continued during the reporting period..."
"...In April 2009, at a district court in Nankana Sahib, Punjab, police cleared three men accused of raping a 13-year-old Christian girl despite eyewitness accounts and medical evidence... "
"...A March 2009 attack on a church and the surrounding neighborhood in Sangu-Wali, a village in Gujranwala, Punjab, left a woman dead. The attack was believed to be prompted after a Christian filed a robbery complaint against a local Muslim who, along with his friends, indiscriminately preyed on the community..."
"...Hindus faced societal violence, often directed at temples, during the reporting period..."
Etc., etc.
"We, four priests, went from door to door, begging Christians not to react, to stay calm, to avoid provoking a dangerous spiral of violence and revenge," said Father Khalid Rashid Asi. "We reminded them: we belong to Christ, we love peace, we forgive our enemies."
De facto Shariah is their fate. Delay for long as you can the final, destructive wrath of Islam so that the souls of those that have not reached the age of reason have a chance to recieve salvation.
Thanks to moronic Hillary Clinton, who promised all sorts of stuff to the Paki Government at cost of the US tax dollar the guys were acquitted. I agree 100% with Hugh's synopsis about Pakistanies, they should be the last people on the planet that we ought to trust.
I wonder if she really knows the treatment of the non-MohSlums in Afghanistan-Pakistan by 99% Pakies - it is despicable and disgusting.
fitna, I respect your views and found them provocative. That's why I'm responding.
A couple of key differences: 1) Christianity has much more often than Islam been spread by persuasion and example. That is especially noticeable in comparing the early centuries of the two religions, where the contrast between them is almost total. 2) When Muslims have spread Islamic law by invasion and conquest, that has been in accord with the teachings of Muhammad as represented by the core Islamic texts. When Christians have spread Christianity by invasion and conquest, that has clearly been against the teachings attributed by the Bible to JC.The Reformation and the Enlightenment are the mature results of Christian culture. The fact that some Christians opposed those movements doesn't prove the contrary. The separation of religion and state is implicit in much that JC is reputed to have said and done: "Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's," and "My kingdom is not of this world." Also, when JC tells the disciples that he who would be greatest among them would not lord over them but would serve them and wash their feet as Jesus washed their feet. From that point on, there developed further in Christendom what had in various ways been implicit in Judaism but was largely absent everywhere else on earth: the beginnings of an (often confused and hindered) effort to maintain two distinct realms of religion and state.
For well over fifteen hundred years, those two realms battled each other over whose turf was whose, each side often going so far as to try to absorb the other, with sometimes the secular side dominating, and sometimes the religious side dominating. Yet because of the words and actions attributed by the Bible to JC, there was generally an assumption that two realms should have some form of existence, and accordingly two realms always tended to be there in some form, or in the case of near total eclipse, at some point the two realms always did reappear, if after periods of lopsided predominance by one side over the other. Human beings took many centuries to understand how the two realms were to be divided, because no strong and clear precedent existed. It took over 1700 years to begin to see the prerogatives of each realm. But the separation of religion and state goes back to the figure of JC, more than to any other source.
You must mean ultimately self-defeating. Because so far, Christianity hasn't done too badly, from winning over the Roman Empire despite torture and persecution of the earliest Christians, to being the largest religion in the world today, and the one that gains more converts around the globe than any other. (As you know, Islam grows primarily by reproduction, not conversion.) Depends what you mean by "love your enemies." Does it mean "stand by and let them rape your daughters, blow up your buildings, rob your houses, and set up tyrannies over you"? I don't think so. Most Christians agree to some kind of just war doctrine. Most Christians agree that sometimes armed police are necessary. If you look again at the text where the statement occurs, you find Jesus saying that it is no credit to love only those who love you. Even the tax collectors do that. The point is twofold, and it's pretty profound, even if you don't believe in Christianity: 1) love is not like buying and selling or cold reciprocity; it is truly a wonder of selfless generosity. 2) And don't hate. Notice that what you hate in the enemy is a potential, and sometimes more than a potential, in yourself. In a world where people were prone to all kinds of scapegoating, this was, and still is, good advice. Some Christians, it's true, misunderstand "love your enemies." It doesn't mean you can't defend innocents. To do so, you might even sometimes have to kill. But you don't have to hate those you kill. Warriors who love the adversary they must kill are on the whole going to be more effective than those blinded by hate.It's a good thing that Christians have some difficulty being militant because of JC's statements. Militant religion ends up being theocracy. JC, I suppose, was not against the use of force by Caesar (the State) in some circumstances -- for example, if the state needs to protect children from violence by kidnappers. Thus we get just war doctrine from people like Augustine. But Jesus made clear he was against the use of force to spread religion. For some kinds of self-defense, though, he seems to have supported it. Recall the scene in the NT where Roman soldiers come to arrest Jesus. One of the diciples -- surprise, surprise -- has a sword! So Jesus has been walking around with at least one disciple who has a sword. Presumably he was aware the disciple was carrying the sword. Jesus, it's true, reprimanded the disciple for cutting the ear of one of the soldiers who had come to arrest Jesus. But if Jesus knew the disciple was carrying a sword, I guess that would be one of the examples that show that Jesus did not entirely reject a need for defense of innocents against violent aggressors.
If Jesus was correct in what he said once about swords, Islam will be destroyed by the sword: "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword."
It's outrageous that in this world and at this time humans would murder other humans over such ignorance and superstition.
May these men's memory be for a blessing.
Fitna,
Christianity is not a suicide cult. Extending love and standing ready to forgive the very ones who may be attempting to kill you and take/destroy all that you hold dear is not mutually exclusive to taking up arms to defend yourself, your family, and your home.
Pacifism is not Christianity.
If you wish to rant against either, please take the high road and mince through the facts; spare the rhetoric for the two-ply.
Iam an indian living in india. i happened to visit a muslim owned hospital at madras and i saw a huge notice board which had a proverb ???! written on it. it said islam is the only way to reach allah . i was kinda shocked seein that becos i dont think anybody from any other religion could put those words like the way it was in a country where their own religion is a minority.needless to say every employee in that hospital was a muslim. it was abominating