As I said here, "We must no longer treat journalists as if they were objective reporters when they are ideologues and propagandists." And here I am doing just that, withdrawing my sanction and refusing to accept their false pretense of objectivity, in Sweden last Monday.
More videos from my talk in Sweden here.
The "journalist" asking me the when-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife question in the video is Per Gudmundson, an editorial writer at Svenska Dagbladet (photo courtesy Markus Ketolainen, SD Television):
http://newstime.co.nz/mainstream-media-mr-knut-pries-desperate-with-envy.html
Mr. Knut Pries of a German newspaper Westfälische Rundschau lies also like editorial writer at Svenska Dagbladet
The mainstream media tell only the dangerous half-truth and twisted the facts.
See the CNN TV news, which are not saying that there are many ahadith Shahih (correct) to stone people to death.
http://schnellmann.org/stoning_bukhari_muslim.pdf
PDF 202 KB
Booyaah and slam dunk. Go home crying Per Gudmundson, you just took a verbal ass whoopin!
Note that this Per Gunnarson is working for what he calls a 'conservative' newspaper, which in Sweden, or generally in Scandinavia, means its a Socialist propaganda rag.
Unacceptable that Gunnarson seeks guilt by association to inflict disrepute on Spencer and his imaginary "right wing followers", instead of sticking to the subject matter at hand.
A good smack-down, but given the seriousness of the situation there is no more room for fence sitting. Accepting slander, smears and innuendo just doesn't cut it, we have to fight back.
Magnificent answer, Robert. Thanks for putting that journalist in his place. You got right to the root of the problem -- his preconceived notions upon which he was basing his question. His "one-sidedness" was glaringly obvious. Thanks for not playing the game anymore.
Way to go, Robert !
I'm proud to be a dubious person !
Great answer to deliberately guilty by association question!!!
As to the comments about "moderate" and "radical" Muslims, we must conclude that there are no "moderate" Muslims as they never come out against the so called radical Muslims.
It is plainly clear, all Muslims are radical, some pretend to be moderate at times to fool infidels and show their true colors when Muslim can't refute the truth about Islam. An example that you cite and we all know, the Glasgow airport bombers and the Mercedes car bombers in London, were well educated doctors who would be described by the MSM and our political leaders as moderate Muslims but in reality they were all regular Muslims who showed their true radical colors when they could not bear perceived insults to Islam and Muslims.
Hence, lets forget this moderate Muslim business once and for all and call them what they really are - radical!!!
One can find many more examples of such Muslim behavior, simply confirming that all Muslims are radical and not a single one is a moderate!!!
Bravo Mr. Spencer.
What a excellent slap down of a duplicitous leftist pretending to be a reporter
Bravo! It's asinine to hear from the liberal 'reporters'. Where the reporters are suppose to be objective, they are merely one with 'useful idiots' transplanted on their foreheads. Let us be the ones that call them out.
Its not their job to direct a story. An objective reporter would provide you of the FACTS. He/She would not be the one who judges what the FACTS are based upon the rose-colored tints he has put on. It is a big shame that Per Gudmundson has prejudged you based his preconceived idea of you. Does an objective reporter use this tacit?
The BBC is no different; in its political treatment, its friend is Binyam Mohamed, from Ethiopia, Al-Qaeda training camp, and Gitmo; its enemy is Geert Wilders, MP from the Netherlands.
Spencer's Dog Pound pumps their fists and hollers, "Woof, woof, woof, woof!"
Where can I get a Jihad Watch "Dubious Person" t-shirt?
Woohoo! That was right on!
Per Gudmundson had a particularly nasty accusingly way of putting a question. It would upset anyone and no wonder he was told a thing or two, rightly so.
Per Gudmundson is another Walter Duranty.
Another Gavin King.
Real quality journalists. Deluded opinion manufacturers of the worst kind.
Not so long ago CNN did a "We know where you live" job on Kurt Westergaard, just to make sure that Muslims could find him. (One tried, though unsuccessfully)
How can these swine live with themselves?
Spencer: "We must no longer treat journalists as if they were objective reporters when they are ideologues and propagandists."
Who ever considered journalists to be objective?
Journalism is not science and not even science is objective - especially not social science.
Journalist we agree with we tend to consider objective. The rest is a bunch of brain washing ideologues, useful idiots and paid agents of the enemy.
- By the way, Spencer did very well – as usual.
The 'moderate ' muslims are saying nothing now about muslim atrocities / aggression etc .
Why ? Maybe they agree with what the 'radical ' muslims are doing - maybe they're afraid to say anything .
But the reasonsa they don't say anything now will be the reasns they will take the side of the 'radical ' muslims when things hit the fan -
as surely will happen when the two communities , muslim and locals , become really polarised and the locals are subjected to constant provocation
( it's become faily constant now but it will get a lot worse )
that 'faily ' above should be 'fairly '
"The 'moderate ' muslims are saying nothing now about muslim atrocities / aggression etc. Why?"
My take on this is that theyve been indoctrinated. They have a different view of the world, their culture hasnt been enlightened. They dont get our whole freedom and equality thing. And if they dont get that, this is just a contest between islam and the West.
See it as 2 teams competing in sports, but which play under different rules. The muslim team is just trying to beat the other brutally. The Western team is trying to get fair rules for all. Muslims see this as an attack on them. They dont want fair rules, they just want to win, and in their frenzy they believe we are just trying to defeat them too.
Another dubious commenter here: Way to go, Robert. That was priceless.
"Where can I get a Jihad Watch "Dubious Person" t-shirt?"
I think this would be a great idea for a T-shirt. Could bring in some more money for the site. I know I would buy one.
That "journalist" probably limped away after that verbal smackdown. Very well done, Robert.
Who is that really ugly baldy in the pic?
"Dubious Person Against Jihad" Good idea for a shirt!
How about these:
"GOT JEWS? They Do a Culture Good!"
"Take Your Jihad and Shove It!"
"Idolator" With arabic underneath)
"I'm a Kafir, She's a Kafir; Wouldn't You like To Be A Kafir Too? THINK, Be a Kafir!" with arabic Kafir added on Muslim Green label)
"Got Shirk" (Shirk added in Arabic)
"GUN CONTROL: Deciding Which Kneecap"
"I Want to be President! You get the Nobel for Nothing and the Chicks are FREE!"
http://cafepress.com/hereticscrusade
Bravo, Robert!
Exactly what I have been calling for here: Resistance against the jihadists' Quislings in the European and American media. If not by sword, then by word. It works. Just behold the ouster of Oktavia Nasr from CNN. What brought it about? "A short but sharp backlash", as was reported. Kudos to the folks who did the backlash. Resistance!
Ruslan Tokhchukov, Temporarily Not Enraged But Cheering.
Now it would be interesting to see if this Per Gudmundson has written anything about this...and what?
This subject of moderate Muslims has been around for years. One thing I picked up a few weeks back on the Dearborn issue. I remember reading that some Muslims came to the people who were under attack by the extreme eliminate and indicated that they were afraid to come forward because of the retaliation they would face from the extremist.
It seems plausible that some of this is happening. No doubt there is a lot of peer pressure. Islam is a very closed and narcissistic society. I guess that is why these bus ads are a step in the right direction. We need to develop other ways of letting those that would be willing to speak out against their own community.
Just a thought.
Now now Kim- a person can not choose how they look, if he is bald, has black or white skin color...
BUT...
They can choose what they want to believe!!
and
Who they want to support!!
Good job Robert! Way to go!!!
bravo -so good to see you more assertive.
Great response.
Beautiful. Take-downs like this are why I donate money to Jihadwatch.
Robert Spencer might consider converting to Judaism. Perhaps there might be less "dubious people" applauding him? If there are dubious people applauding him. When I go call in on our local talk show, our resident (Christian Identity) Nazi almost always follows me explaining to the listening audience, in so many words, I am a disgusting Jew with an insidious agenda. Few dubious people applaud me. A Christian who tells the truth about Islam, perhaps it might be different than a Jew telling the truth about Islam?
Robert, I love how you invite him to real ALL of your published material ... this will take a very long time, but you know when he is done, he will himself wear the moniker "dubious person" with pride, like all of us do :-). I can't think of a better way to get allies, yes, yes read learn, discover the truth, unlearn the lies.
He's the enemy - that's why I described him in that way - he's ugly and bald and that's how it is. Ugly and bald on the inside, too.
I never thought I would be so proud to be a dubious person! I want the T-Shirt!
As yet another dubious person who shamelessly applauds Robert Spencer, I say kudos to you for a smart smackdown, done with precision, passion and control. Very cool.
"We must no longer treat journalists as if they were objective reporters when they are ideologues and propagandists." ~ Robert Spencer
Ideologues and propagandists, sans doute! We can witness everyday the rotten fruit produced by those whose education has been co-opted by the fifth column; no field more glaring than the Fourth Estate. Not only are journalists steeped in aggressive Socialism, they are not taught the basics of journalism; without the five big questions (who, what, when, where and how) they have nothing on which to base their understanding of what they purport to report, and the public forms their views based on a lack of factual information.
Islam is one topic that has always been misrepresented and coddled. Casting dubious aspersions on Islam earns one an Allinsky-ite pie, either literally or figuratively; Islamophobe! Racist! Hater! It was good to see Mr. Spencer stand up, change the rules of engagement and challenge the audience to read his works. Indubitably, they will see where the hate really is, if they can overcome their dubious and lacking education.
Robert, you graciously provided this ‘journalist’ with a remedial lesson in applied critical thinking, which should have been part of his J School experience. Perhaps the lesson will assist those earnest few in attendance come to an honest ‘why?’ in respect to the aims, attitudes and atmospherics of Islam.
So a journalist asks a challenging question and true to form, Mr. Spencer doesn't answer it because he "doesn't play that game." How convenient. I agree with Mr. Spencer that he plays by his own rules, which allows him to avoid answering his critics by attacking them. Mr. Spencer co-opts the language of independent thinkers (i.e., Islamophobe, etc.). Kind of like rappers and some African-American civil rights activists who argue that if you use the N-word enough it's pejorative meaning is diminished. A pretty good strategy to avoid close examination of Mr. Spencer's shallow arguments that don't stand up to scrutiny. Mr. Spencer's tired and weak defense that he has written "10 books and gazillions of articles" in which not a word is inaccurate is, of course, a lie if he wants to talk about liars. His uninformed comments about Pope Pius XII is his most recent example. But that is the beauty of running a website. You can make corrections and never acknowledge yours errors and pretend they never happened. There are many websites today who play close attention to Mr. Spencer's ideology and parse his arguments. His errors are numerous and lack intellectual honesty. Anybody can publish quotes from ancient text and apply their interpretation to them. It doesn't make those interpretation correct. Many people do indeed point out Mr. Spencer's numerous errors, but according to Mr. Spencer's logic, if he doesn't answer his critics the errors don't exist. Mr. Spencer also discusses "freedom of expression, freedom of conscience." A very noble cause to be sure. And freedoms that every American, no, every human being, are entitled to -- well, except Muslims, as argued on this website every day.
Per Gudmundson's "question" is so loaded with unsupported assumptions, biases, and fallacies that it is difficult to know where to begin in unpacking them all and addressing them. Yet Robert has done an admirable job of answering within the generally brief time frame appropriate for these kinds of contexts.
13Martyrs,
Why the moniker "13Martyrs"?
You wrote:
By "websites" which pay that "close attention" do you mean to include Loonwatch? When are they going to correct the error which they made when they (particularly Danios' in his part 2 "Huckster" article) claimed that non-Muslim dhimmis would not be considered blameworthy/guilty if they violated the dhimma? See my responses in the Jihadwatch thread "The dhimmis: guilty people," see my comments from June 8 through July 8, inclusive, most of which address this issue.
Dear Kinana of Khaybar,
Re: 13Martyrs: Brush up on your John Lennon discography.
You wrote:
"Re: 13Martyrs: Brush up on your John Lennon discography."
No need to be cryptic. Wouldn't it be easier for you to answer the question as to why you chose that moniker? (This is vitally important).
"13 Martyrs" says:
Mr. Spencer also discusses "freedom of expression, freedom of conscience." A very noble cause to be sure. And freedoms that every American, no, every human being, are entitled to -- well, except Muslims, as argued on this website every day.
I strongly object to this claim you make. Every website can decide what it publishes and let's published, but Jihad Watch allows numerous scathing comments like yours on it's site anyway. And in America and the secular Democratic countries freedom of speech and conscience is practiced to a high degree, and certainly for Muslims and their defenders also. In sharp contrast to the reality in the Islamic countries in respect to Non-Muslims.
So if you think it's a noble cause, you are definitely barking up the wrong tree! And as a Muslim, you are in a way in cooperation in some way, with those prohibiting this, according to you, noble cause. Take your responsibility and criticize worldwide and with single, not double standards.
You also said:
"Anybody can publish quotes from ancient text and apply their interpretation to them. It doesn't make those interpretation correct."
OK, The ancient texts in question are known, immutable and finite. Now there is a plethora of possibilities to interpret them. But Robert Spencer is very careful to be in "sync"/ agreement almost, with highly respected Islamic interpreters of these texts. And with sayings of Islamic leaders and followers, which his site researches and monitors very diligently.
And about interpretation; Islam is the possession of all mankind. It is not anymore determined by the religious affiliation of the Islam-student which students have the most correct interpretation of these finite texts. The biggest correctness is determined by the zeal of the researcher. To discover and explain what the original messenger really meant. Not what was later made of it.
And many Muslims may be wrong about that and are in need of extra study and openmindedness and deep contemplating of their religion. And Muslims may well be in need of ever more reminders that considering Islam's interpretation honestly is their responsibility. And reminders that to have a religion is a choice and not the same as having a race, not the same as lovingly but sheepishly following parents and community.
''anyone can publish quotes from ancient text....'' 13Mfkrs, you've got no freaking concept of 'ancient', so don't even begin to go there sonny-boy.
I would like to add that Muslims and the world at large do owe mister Spencer a lot. Since according to you many Muslims are responding to him. And as a result the Islamic community is much less complacent and much more contemplating the Islamic message than it without the likes of mr Spencer would be. Regardless if he makes many mistakes or not, he is enough of a challenge to sting Muslims to deep research and thinking it would seem. And many Non-Muslims too.
Feisty, Mr Spencer.
...and on a less.. err....confrontational note 13, I would strongly recommend that the ulama be held to account as to why they read history arseways-round. For smart people it helps to start at zero.
Lookie lookie here...Mr Fitnah. Anyone up for whackamole?..gotta buzz ..weekends ain't what they usee to bee..
Me thinks '13 martyrs' is too dumb to post here.
"Mr. Spencer's shallow arguments that don't stand up to scrutiny"
Give it to me baby. Tell us which one, be specific, oh great Muslim scholar!
"not a word is inaccurate"- really? Tell us what is inaccurate, so we can pluck you like the goose you are.
"His errors are numerous and lack intellectual honesty. Anybody can publish quotes from ancient text and apply their interpretation to them."
Tell us about it! Which are the errors that 'are numerous and lack intellectual honesty?'
"Anybody can publish quotes from ancient text and apply their interpretation to them."
Sure. But Islam is not to be interpreted. The gates of Itjihad are closed. Spencer doesn't interpret, he takes his Islam straight from the horses mouth, from the most famous and influential Muslim scholars.
So who or what are you but a little feral dog who is trying to take a leak in Spencer's rose garden?
lol, your 1400-year-old-texts' ain't "ancient."
As a Muslim, you've only been around since the early 7th century AD! Nope - everyone was NOT "once a Muslim," you freak. Of all the lies ever told in the world, that one is #1 on the list of the most egregious. What a bunch of deluded ignorant lying freaks' you people are. Go back to your own countries and over-breed there.
Thanks for the follow-thru Kim. I was trying to figure the math m'self but I'm a numbnuts with numbers...great teamwork sister.
"So a journalist asks a challenging question and true to form, Mr. Spencer doesn't answer it because he "doesn't play that game." How convenient."
------
What question do you want answered, Mr. "I'm-not-a-Muslim-just-a-free-thinker-and-wanna-buy-a-bridge?" The one that starts by listing dubious/slanderous "wife-beater" premises and then ends with an attack of Guilt by Association? That one? Do you really want him to say he's sorry for his beliefs and ideals and will abandon his calling because some gun-loving Southern Nazis like what he says about Islam? Will YOU answer his reversal? Are YOU responsible and culpable for the fact that bin Laden probably shares your views re. Spencer and Islam?
If you're going to spew fallacious and slanderous statements, have the intellectual honesty to at least answer the ones turned back at you as well.
"So, 13Martyrs, I've heard that many have accused you of livestock molestation, and even though you have not yet been successfully convicted of this crime, are you not concerned that Hamas and Islamic Jihad have you on their Christams Card... whoops, I mean Ramadan Card list? And on Osama bin Laden's last video, he can clearly be seen wearing a 13Martyrs T-shirt. When is enough enough? Where do you draw the line?"
'But that is the beauty of running a website.'
Would you like to run a concurrent website where you can tell the world where exactly the koran tells muslims that picking up arms and fighting against non-muslims is an absolutely no-no because human life is precious.
And where exactly the koran tells muslims that 2 men's testimony is equal to that of 1 woman's testimony.
And you can also show videos of imams who preach in their friday sermons that non-violence is the mantra to a happy life.
And maybe have a link on your website to an on-line petition which asks muslims to sign up for cleansing the koran of its violent passages.
Go ahead and launch this website rather than blather about Mr Spencer's website.
Jihad watch do a good job, please watch the video on this page.
"Thanks for the follow-thru Kim. I was trying to figure the math m'self but I'm a numbnuts with numbers...great teamwork sister."
Thanks, London Jim.
Repeat: (to "13 Martyrs," - lol!)
"lol, your 1400-year-old-texts' ain't "ancient."
As a Muslim, you've only been around since the early 7th century AD! Nope - everyone was NOT "once a Muslim," you freak. Of all the lies ever told in the world, that one is #1 on the list of the most egregious. What a bunch of deluded ignorant lying freaks' you people are. Go back to your own countries and over-breed there."
I believe that says it in the proverbial nutshell.
Excellent video!
Did you-all notice Robert's eyebrows, starting at about the 5:28 mark, when he says, "What kind?"
LOL but so true and well said.
I have to admit, I missed the question the first time, it was so burred in libelous preambles.
"thank you dubious people" was very cleaver and a nice touch. Mr. Spencer hit him hard with what he and other journalists need to hear. Then again, maybe it's more important that the people hear it,since he journalists are hardly likely to change from this reprimand, but they can realize the emperor is naked and stop listening, thus stripping them of power.
"I can't win the game, so I'm changing the rules, and so should you." If you could fit in the context around it (about Journalism bias) this seems like mug or t-shirt worthy to me.