The central question here is: do the "moderates" here have the political will, support of the population, and is it their own genuine intention, to prevent the outright Islamization of Bosnia? Time will tell.
And a follow-up question: do said "moderates" have a better defense than to glibly insist the chapters and verses quoted by the "radicals" were "taken out of context?"
We get that one a lot, of course, when we report on jihadists' own reliance on Islamic texts and teachings to motivate and defend their acts. Oddly, enough, such bland pronouncements just never seem to halt the jihad. It keeps happening, and we keep reporting on it. "Bosnia: Radical Muslims urge boycott of security forces," from AdnKronos International. August 17:
Sarajevo, 17 August (AKI) - Radical Wahabi fundamentalists have been leafleting mosques throughout Bosnia Herzegovina urging Muslims not to join the country's police and army.
AdnKronos is frequently a useful source, but one can't help but note what amounts to a George Carlin-esque attempt at softening the blow of a succinct term like "jihadist" by stretching it out over more syllables. By the year 2020, they should be up to a good paragraph or so in the mainstream media.
"Those are forces devoted to a fake god who we should fight against with all of our powers," read the leaflets, which Wahabis have been putting in mosque collection boxes.
Members of Bosnia's Muslim community dismissed the leaflets as a "desperate and insane appeal".
The leaflets also contained several passages from the Koran which had been "misinterpreted" and "used out of context", they said.
Funny how that keeps happening.
Similar leaflets were found in mosque contribution boxes just before the bombing of a police station in the central Bosnian town of Bugojno on 27 June that killed one policeman and injured six others.
Wahabi leaflets first appeared in Bosnia when the government decided to contribute to NATO forces in Afganistan and Iraq. The leaflets accused the government of "betraying our Islamic brothers" in these countries.
Bosnia's imams are said to be deeply concerned by the bombing in Bugojno and the reappearance of wahabi pamphlets. Bosnian mosques are not well protected and it is impossible to monitor people entering them, according to the imams.
The Wahabi movement first appeared in the Balkans during the 1990s wars, when 'mujahadeen' from Islamic countries came to Bosnia to fight on the side of local Muslims.
Wahabi cells have been radicalising supporters, running training camps and plotting violence in recent years, according to a number of terrorism experts
Bosnia state security agency OSA director Almir Dzuvo said in July there were some 3,000 well equipped radical Islamist militants in Bosnia, who posed a serious terrorism threat to the country.
And we protected the Bosnian Muslims ........................... to give the Saudis a foothold into Europe?
"The leaflets also contained several passages from the Koran which had been "misinterpreted" and "used out of context", they said."
Out of context?
The Accursed Book (video)
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/05/accursed-book-le-livre-maudit.html
You do realize that wahabists would kill me and my family for being apostates, if they could, right?
Makes statements like
"but one can't help but note what amounts to a George Carlin-esque attempt at softening the blow of a succinct term like "jihadist" by stretching it out over more syllables."
seem so absurd. They're called "Radical Wahabi fundamentalists" for a reason, it's because they're radical Wahabi fundamentalists. They kill people from my sect all the time.
If reality is too complex for you, that's ok, but don't expect news media to pander to your "all Muslims are one evil mass" idea.
"don't expect news media to pander to your "all Muslims are one evil mass" idea."
Because the MSM would never get it wrong?
"Bosnian mosques are not well protected and it is impossible to monitor people entering them, according to the imams."
just who are what would Muslim mosques need protection from?....oh that would be other Muslims and Islam....
Sarajevo, 17 August (AKI) - Radical Wahabi fundamentalists have been leafleting mosques throughout Bosnia Herzegovina urging Muslims not to join the country's police and army.
...Members of Bosnia's Muslim community dismissed the leaflets as a "desperate and insane appeal".
The leaflets also contained several passages from the Koran which had been "misinterpreted" and "used out of context", they said.
Funny how that keeps happening.
..............
Yes—and in exactly the same manner.
"Bomber kills 61 Iraqis in recruitment drive"
http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1107ap_ml_iraq.html
"Wahabi leaflets first appeared in Bosnia when..."
Ah, the tang of autumn in the air of late summer, the first appearance of Wahabi leaflets...
Yusef YK wrote:
You do realize that wahabists would kill me and my family for being apostates, if they could, right?
...................
How, exactly, are we Infidels supposed to feel better about Islam, knowing that the "purest" of Muslims would even go after a fellow Muslim who is an apologist for Jihad terror and the imposition of Shari'ah law, and want to murder him and his entire family?
If anything, realizing this—as I already do—makes Islam even more alarming.
Bosnia unfortunately will be an interesting place to watch these next many years.
Not that the Danish media care much about the place, except for vague and politically incorrect reports of Wahhabism that might or might not put a stop to membership of EU and NATO.
45% of the population in Bosnia and Herzegovina are said to be Muslims. But as we all know there have been changes in demographics and it's for the 2011 census to find out. I find it wishful thinking that the Muslims would allow the current decentralized state of affairs to continue, the Wahhabis even less so.
"....... do said "moderates" have a better defense than to glibly insist the chapters and verses quoted by the "radicals" were "taken out of context?"
The response to the defense that verses have been 'taken out of context' is: No. They were taken out of the Qur'an.
The unspeakable evil the US and England, and other Western democracies did unto the Serb Christians to please the Muslims and create 2 Muslim countries in Europe. The evil.
Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.
From the article
"Bosnia state security agency OSA director Almir Dzuvo said in July there were some 3,000 well equipped radical Islamist militants in Bosnia, who posed a serious terrorism threat to the country."
3,000 well equipped terrorists translates into many many 10's of 1,000's of supporters both active and passive in the community there. That is very worrying indeed.
On a slightly different note, Iran came within an ace of taking the whole place during the 1990's. Their influence amongst the Bosnian Mulim areas was well entrenched. Senior Bosnian Muslim politicians would have Iranian flags in their offices, Iranian badges on their lapels. The Iranians could get ordnance into Bosnia because the US's AWACs would pretend to not see these huge Iranian transport planes land at Tuzla airport, etc. There was also the land route from Zagreb. Of course they had training bases that were quite distinct from the Mujahideen camps.
After civil war broke out in the spring of 92 hundreds of Mujahideen descended on the place. By the Summer of the same year numerous ad hoc formations of "holy warriors" were already in the country. They were well armed and had money. Witnesses in the General Rasim Delic trial noted how they zoomed about in 4 by 4's, used quality communication equipment and in addition they even had PCs at their HQ, etc.
The infamous EMD ( El Mujahed Detatchment ) was formed in the following Summer in August 93 and was part of the ABiH's third Corps. Previously they were simply called "Arabs" by the locals. Their base was called the "12 kilometre camp" - which was also quite confusing called "13 Kilometre camp" on occasion and "Kamenica" ( sp ) - Numerous crimes were committed here against POWs. Any POW, whether ethnic Croat or ethnic Serb who survived the camp unharmed was very fortunate indeed.
A brief example.
In 1995, during Operation "Farz", over 50 Bosnian Serb soldiers were taken prisoner. Some were immediately taken by Mujahideen - their bodies have to this day not been found - whilst the remaining walked to the EMD camp, Kamenica. Witnesses heard screams, gunfire, cries of "Allah Akhbar", etc. Victims were mutialted with a saw, others were completely decapitated, etc. Almost all of the POWs were murdered quite horrifically. Very few survived. A few days later, more VRS prisoners were taken and after being brutally beaten were taken to Kamenica too. At the EMD camp they were severely beatne and electrocuted.
None survived.
A few days after this, the elderly ethnic Serb, Nenad Jovanovic was detained, forced to drink petrol/gasoline and died in excruciating agony some days later.
If you want to see some of their handiwork there are numerous videos/photos on the internet of Bosnian Croat, secular Muslim and of course numerous Bosnian Serb victims. In the West of course these "Holy Warriors" were being eulogised in the press, in Hollywood movies, by politicians, etc.
Serbianna.com used to have rather a gory video showing their handiwork and from the Popovic et al trial I've viewed a video of crimes committed by the Srebrenica 28th division ( obviously not Mujahideen ) which shows that it wasn't just the "Arabs" who'd cut off limbs, play footy with heads, etc. I'll try to put that Srebrenica video on sometime though it is obviously not for the squeamish.
In addition to the notorious EMD there were numerous other Mujahideen units who acted quite independently of, well, anyone. A unit of Turks was based at Zenica, a group of Arabs at Gluha Bukovia, another group at Bistricak, one at Zeljezno Polje, another at Tseanj etc. These never fought as part of the EMD.
The EMD was integrated into the ABiH, their 3rd Corps. After the Dayton Accords the soldiers received a generous one off payment from the Bosnian governemnt. Many Mujahideen were even awared the ABiH's highest award, the "Golden Lilly", others received the "Silver Shield ". President Izetbegovich visited the camp on several occasions, impressed at their fighting tenacity, as did many senior politicians and military leaders. He was also there when the EMD unit was disbanded. They were all well aware of what crimes these "holy warriors" had committed, for the unit had been under surveillance by the Bosnian government for some time.
The El Mujahed Detachment organisation. The unit was headed by
a) a military commander
and
b) a more powerful emir.
The unit had a shura, a group of leaders, who had to give any order the green light before the EMD did anything. The rank and file had no ranks.
Some of the Mujahideen read like extras to a "Pirates of the Caribbean" movie with "holy warriors" like Red Beard ( Abu Abdel Aziz ) and Captain Hook ( Abu Hamza ). By Bosnia 92 they had quite a resume. For example, Abu Abdel Aziz had fought in Africa, Indian Kashmir, the Philippines and of course, Afghanistan and was the first commander of these "Arabs". He was in Bosnia within a couple of months of the civil war starting. The EMD had spiritual leaders such as the Egyptian Shabbah Anwar. Many of these Mujahideen were very well educated. Doctors such as the Syrian Aiman Awad and of course Cappers Hook I think the senior leader, Abu Haris, was also a doctor.
Many other ABiH units also contained large numbers of "Arabs", in particular the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade, and the 306th Mountain Brigade. In the 5th Corps in the Bihac area, planeloads of Mujahideen were airlifted in to this "safe haven" to fight the Serb allied - and close friend to President Milosevic - Fikret Abdic.
The EMD was all but a law unto itself thouth they were highly organised from within and with very high morale, Crimes became so common that the Bosnian Government put them under surveillance. Here's a segment of a report compiled by their very own own army about some of their exploits.
"Following the killing of a member of the El Mujahedin Unit, they organised a squad of combatants who barged through defence lines, liquidated a number of Chetniks - they mean VRS soldiers here - slaughtered two, and carried their heads through the villages down the Krivija River, showing them to the locals and the school children."
Charming gentlemen.
By the end of the war almost 2,000 fighters made up the EMD, 1,774 to be exact. Many were locals who'd been radicalised during the war. What became apparent is the extent to which Bosnian Muslim society, particularly the army, became radicalised as the war progressed. Witnesses at General Rasim Delic's trial spoke of the pride they felt when they volunteered for the EMD - we're talking about local Bosnians here - and the high status they were accorded by the local Muslim population.
After the Bosnian Serb Army were framed for the Markale 2 massacre in August 1995, NATO launched a ferocious bombardment of VRS positions, using artillery and planes. They got a lot of their intelligence from the Bosnian Muslim Army and that almost certainly means some of that came from these Mujahideen for one of the main jobs of the Mujahideen units was reconnoitering behind enemy lines.
This NATO/Mujahideen alliance obviously worked out so well they did the exact same thing but on a far bigger scale during the Kosovo war. Mujahideen pointing out what to bomb and which infidels to die and NATO obediently obeying.
Quite sweet really.