How about that: Muslims in Canadian jihad plot were apparently really swell guys

Educated, well off, respected in the community. Decent fellows. Then, if poverty and lack of education didn’t cause their jihad, there must be something else. And gee, this is always so awkward: if those factors can’t explain it, there must be something else.

Something else, something else… ill-fitting shoes? Radio station renege on its promise of “less talk, more rock?” It could be anything, but, of course, Islamic texts and teachings!

An update on this story. “Update: Terror suspects respected members of community,” by Ian MacLeod and Andrew Seymour for the Ottawa Citizen, August 27 (thanks to Jake):

OTTAWA — The profiles of three alleged Islamist extremists whom police say posed “a real and serious threat” to Ottawa and national security are at odds with the notion that terrorists exist on the margins of society. Two of the accused men are professionals — a doctor (and father of three) and an x-ray technician.

The third studied to be an electrical engineer. All are apparently intellectually mature individuals rooted in Canadian life. One even appeared on the reality program Canadian Idol. While much is still to be learned about them, poverty, deprivation and social alienation do not appear to have been part their alleged descent to homicidal hatred.

Yet it is that very ordinariness that has police and security experts concerned. How are they to spot potential terrorists before it’s too late? In this case, police say the arrests thwarted possible terror bombings around Ottawa and against Canadian troops in Afghanistan. “This group posed a real and serious threat to the citizens of National Capital Region and Canada’s national security,” RCMP Chief Supt. Serge Therriault, head of criminal operations for the capital region, told an Ottawa news conference Thursday.

He said an RCMP-led national security investigation employing about 100 joint-forces officers for the past year was forced to move on the suspects this week to prevent “financial support” going to international terrorists for weapons to attack western coalition forces.

Raids on two west Ottawa addresses Wednesday uncovered more than 50 circuit boards police believe were intended to remotely trigger detonators for improvised explosive devices (IEDs). Also seized was what police described as a “vast quantity” of schematics, videos, drawings, instruction books and electronic components for IEDs. Investigators believe the suspects are part of a domestic terrorist group with links to international terrorism. The Canadian Security Intelligence Service was the first to begin investigating the individuals, though no details have been released.

“There are certain individuals in Canada who have adopted an ideology inspired by international terrorist groups who promote heinous violence to achieve their goals,” CSIS Assistant Director Raymond Boisvert told the packed news conference. “This case reiterates the serious nature of this threat, which can result in tragic consequences if left unchecked.” The spy agency at some point alerted the Mounties, who assigned the “Project Samossa” file to the Ottawa-based Integrated National Security Enforcement Team, one of four across the country dedicated to combating threats to the country. RCMP in British Columbia, Manitoba, Quebec and other parts of Ontario assisted. The alleged plot was in its early planning stages and “months” away from being operationally viable, Therriault said. “There remained, throughout, a varied degree of imminence to the threat, whether they were going to conduct an attack or not and how it was going to be done,” he said.

It is not clear even whether specific Ottawa targets had been selected. “Because the plot was located here it was always a concern that targets were potentially located in this area,” he said, adding more details will come out in court. With all of its political, diplomatic and other important national symbols, many undefended, Ottawa is a target-rich environment. The Internet, meanwhile, allows easy “electronic scouting” — pictures, maps, histories and satellite images — of many sites….

Canada jihad terror suspects worshiped at same mosque in Montreal
Interests: hockey, music, acting and killing Infidels -- Canadian Idol contestant arrested for jihad plot
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Comments

  1. says

    Yes, they are all kind, hard working, soft spoken, smiling, snakes. This is another good example why you can’t trust any of them as long as they are followers of islam.

  2. says

    “There are certain individuals in Canada who have adopted an ideology inspired by international terrorist groups who promote heinous violence to achieve their goals,”

    Goals? What goals? Would this “goal” have anything to do with establishing Islamic law in Canada? Or could this “goal” have anything to do with Islam’s doctrine, theology and legal system which mandates warfare against unbelievers? Nah…that would be Islamophobic.

  3. says

    Another link to the original article implies that these are Kurdish immigrants from Iran but the Kurdish community is distancing itself from them. Nothing much is said about their families. This threat sounds about as “domestic” as that of the Pakistani-born “American” who tried to bomb Times Square.

  4. says

    All of this nonsense – “we’re so surprised” “this is so out of character for these boys” “they had so much to look forward to here in their new country” “[blah, blah, blah]” – is not only growing really old, it’s becoming untenable to maintain. The American rubes are not going to be buying this nonsense parading as excuses forever. Particularly as the process of Muslims being Muslims goes on: the jihad will continue – Muslims just won’t be able to help themselves – with all of its overt acts being directed against decent and now-awakening and no longer unsuspecting Canadians and Americans.

    We’re actually seeing this unfold before our eyes right now, and we who are knowledgeable about Islam and its insidious ways couldn’t be happier. The GZ mosque is bringing positions into greater and greater relief. The soldier who won’t deploy because Allah told him not to oppose those who aim to do away with the infidel kuffirs (oddly Allah was silent during his recruitment and signing-on days), the recent hijib – Disneyland dust-up, plus oodles and oodles of other cases where Muslims demonstrate time and time again that they will NOT integrate and will NOT accept American values in the manner done by all other earlier immigrants to our shores, provide us all with ample evidence of the separating of the wheat (true Americans, limited gov’t, personal responsibility, respect to all others, equal treatment, et alia) from the chaff (viz, Muslims, their pro-victimizing enablers, the left generally). Muslims will NOT integrate purposefully so that they can create the parallel society and institutions in preparation for “taking us over.”

    Americans are not going to put up with this nonsense much longer, and we will be willing to suffer the unjustified and predicable playing of the race card by the MSM and all its leftist friends because a larger goal is to be saved, Western civilization and its many hard-earned human rights.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/26/AR2010082605233.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

  5. says

    Two of them were in the medical profession, once again they infiltrate a trusted institution. I certainly hope the government is taking a close look at the medical “students” that are sent over to Canada for their training.

    Decent my butt….

  6. says

    The third studied to be an electrical engineer…

    Raids on two west Ottawa addresses Wednesday uncovered more than 50 circuit boards police believe were intended to remotely trigger detonators for improvised explosive devices (IEDs). Also seized was what police described as a “vast quantity” of schematics, videos, drawings, instruction books and electronic components for IEDs…
    …………..

    It appears *this* is how this newly-minted electrical engineer intended to put his Western-sponsored education to use.

  7. says

    As an American who has known, visted many times and appreciated Canada since his boyhood, I would like to say to all sensible Canadians that Islam can do your nation no good but can definitely do it much harm. Put another way, don’t be fooled by a “little mosque on the prairie” taqiyya. After all, tolerance of an intolerant ideology beyond a certain point is not indicative of an enlightened mind but rather an ironically and destructively very closed one.

  8. says

    Mullah Obama, since you have kissed the hand of King Abdullah, the symbol of true Islam, we have come to realise that the light of Islam has penetrated your body, and you are now directed to the correct path of Islam.

    Some points which prove this are: …

    read the article on http://www.fozoolemahaleh.com/en/2010/08/27/mullah-obama-welcomes-you-to-the-world-of-islam/

    Of course, this is meant to be a joke, but is it really?
    President Obama has on numerous occasions shown that he is a friend of Islam. This article will shed a light on the true nature of “Mullah Obama”.
    Article also available in Farsi here http://www.fozoolemahaleh.com/2010/08/27/%D9%85%D9%84%D8%A7-%D8%A7%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%8C-%D8%A8%D9%87-%D8%AF%D9%86%DB%8C%D8%A7%DB%8C-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85-%D8%AE%D9%88%D8%B4-%D8%A2%D9%85%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%AF

  9. says

    This news hits very close to home, as I live in Winnipeg, as did Hiva Alizadeh, one of the suspected terrorist plotters, and it brings back an incident that happened in my neighbourhood a number of months ago.

    Hiva Alizadeh lived in an appartment very near my home in St. Vital. Check the Wpg Free Press web site. One news report says that he attended a local mosque for prayers, which, I assume, is the mosque a stones throw away from my home. We have many Muslims living in the neighhbourhood so that they can be close enough to attend daily prayers and so on. I never had any problems with anyone until a number of months ago.

    I was walking past one of their homes and was shocked to see anti-semitic graffitti scribbled in chalk across the public sidewalk. I had never seen anything like it before in the neighbourhood. I took some pictures with my camera and called the police, because I wasn’t sure if a hate crime had been committed.

    The police turned the tables on me and made me out to be the bad guy because I spooked the neighbour by taking a picture of his house (wasn’t sure if I needed it for evidence.) They told me the drawing of a stick figure with a gun pointed at the head with the words “Ass” and an Israeli flag with the words “Ass” next to it were nothing and that I was reading too much into it. They said the figure was just a stick figure and represented nothing. One of the officers (Mr. Gestapo) said it was a “strange coincidence” that the racist graffiti turned up the day after I had been reading a report on anti-semitism in Canada, suggesting, without saying it, that I may have been responsible. (Note to self: Don’t try to be chatty with police.)

    I said I felt that such hateful drawings on a public sidewalk were disturbing and wondered what type of person would be teaching a child such hate. They called me creepy because I scared the owner with my camera. They had the audacity to ask me if I was Jewish, which is a creepy question. What the hell does that have to do with anything? I answered, no, and they asked why I would be so concerned about it then. I should’ve asked the male coppers if they were concerned about women’s rights, and if yes, why should they care since they’re men?

    It’s scary to think that Hiva Alizadeh lived in the same neighbourhood and likely attended the same mosque. It brought back the graffiti incident to me and makes me wonder how much hate is being taught in this community.

    Posted below are links to the pictures. I don’t think I can post code, so you’ll probably have to copy & paste.

    http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9159/schalkscribblings080320.jpg
    http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/3577/schalkscribblings010320.jpg

    This Israeli flag is next to the stick figure with a gun pointed at its head: (But, of course, it doesn’t represent anything.)

    http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/5838/schalkscribblings030320.jpg

    “Arab ar good:”

    http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3549/schalkscribblings040320.jpg

    Something about hating the Jewish God:

    http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9289/schalkscribblings060320.jpg

  10. says

    Quote: Yet it is that very ordinariness that has police and security experts concerned. How are they to spot potential terrorists before it’s too late?

    You cant! Now what?

  11. says

    “..more than 50 circuit boards police believe were intended to remotely trigger detonators for improvised explosive devices (IEDs). Also seized was what police described as a “vast quantity” of schematics, videos, drawings, instruction books and electronic components for IEDs…
    “The third studied to be an electrical engineer…”

    What were they trying to do ? Mass production of IED’s ?
    How is that “Police believe were intended” ? When it comes to electronics, this allegation is impossible to make. Any remote control can be used to trigger an explosive. Even your TV remote can trigger an explosion. Receivers ? any light control unit, grass watering system, toy car ! What is the reason to build “more than 50 circuit boards” ?! Did you know a mini-notebook can trigger something 3 miles away in the desert ? (you can look for “cantenna”..)
    “Vast quantity of schematics, videos, drawings, instruction books and electronic components for IEDs…” Are you nuts ?! There are no schematics or electronic components or books for IED’s for Goodness’ Sake !! It’s an idiotic concept !! Any amateur electronist may have a bookcase full of diagrams, that doesn’t make him a terrorist ! Electronic components and schematics can be used for ANYTHING there are NO specific schematics or components for IED’s don’t you understand ? You can make an IED out of your TV, out of your radio, no less !

    By this scale of judging, we all have in our homes complete IED electronics and most of the time, all the explosives needed !

    “The third studied to be an electrical engineer…” Last time I checked, Electronists can do a perfect job as Electricians, but never the other way around !! Never !!

    I look at the court papers. There is no mention of the circuit boards, and there is no specification of the explosive substance.
    May I remind you that even a cigarette-lighter refill can make an explosive ?

    How about detonators ? That could really show intent, because detonators are very specific devices, TOTALLY unlike the remote control and many explosives. Once you found a detonator device, then you know for sure.

    Well.. no sign, no mention of the one thing actually specific to EVERY IED. Not a word. Oh wait. There are more specific things for some IEDs: the casing, for pipe-bombs or directional bombs, and the shrapnel, for suicide belts. No mention of any of these either.

    The whole thing looks awful.

    I’ve seen enough Police and Military abuse of evidence. I’m praying.. I don’t know what I’m praying for, the terrorists to be real or the Police to arrest phony suspects..

  12. says

    This great article taken from the Ottawa Citizen cannot make it more clear that Islam must be discredited and abandoned. The Muslims, and only the Muslims, will keep doing these things until they understand and accept the fact that the Islamic religion is not an “infallible religion sent down to earth by God.” In truth, “the prophet Muhammad” was nothing more than a criminally insane charlatan. The evil cult of that psychotic and murderous pervert must come to an end if we are to survive.

    These persons from the above article were educated, financially secure, and seemingly well adjusted individuals who did what they did out of obedience to the Islamic texts themselves (the Quran, hadiths and sira), period.

    Enough said.

  13. says

    A doctor who is a radical muslim that believes in terrorism to further the cause of islam?

    Makes you wonder how many Infidels and Jews didn’t get the care under him they should have gotten…

  14. says

    OT

    Muslims and Jews in the United States remain among the most ardent supporters of Barack Obama, whose overall job approval ratings have been falling sharply, according to a new poll.

    The Gallup survey, which tracked opinions over a period from January 21 to July 31 showed 78 per cent of Muslims and 61 per cent of Jews approved of the US president’s job performance.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/7968960/Muslims-and-Jews-among-biggest-supporters-of-Barack-Obama.html

  15. says

    How are they to spot potential terrorists before it’s too late?

    It’s a difficult job, that’s for sure! Mosque infiltration might help but the best solution to this daunting problem would be to reduce the number of potential jihadists with a moratorium on muslim immigration.

    Does anyone ever stop and contemplate the ‘good old days’, those halcyon years before our country and our lives were forever changed and tainted by the presence of large numbers of muslims? I can barely remember them without intense concentration but they were beautiful. I guess I’m very lucky to have experienced utopia because many Americans never will, unless they like the rancid, multi-culti, identity politics, special interest groups, moral relativist dystopia that the evil progressives are almost finished creating.

  16. says

    There seems to be one opinion running through this post. So I would like to mix up opinion a bit by addressing the question, “Then, if poverty and lack of education didn’t cause their jihad, there must be something else. And gee, this is always so awkward: if those factors can’t explain it, there must be something else.”
    Very correct. There is something else that causes individuals to become part of organizations like this. Not only in Western countries, but in the Middle East, it is most often educated people in at the core of society rather than the periphery who will join against Americans (“intellectually mature” professionals in this case).
    For example, suicide bombers come from moderate, middle class families, more educated and economically advantaged and drawn to martyrdom (not out of finanical desperation as Western media would portray) but because of intense resentment for American foriegn policy and the history of American oil policy in the Middle East. They are also exposed to the constant presence of US troops and a perception of American indifference to Arab and Muslim casualties and humiliation.
    Basically, higher education gives these people the intellectual resources to critically interpret US foreign policy. They are not acting out of irrational anger.
    I would also argue that Islamic texts and teachings are a factor, but not a deciding factor, in all decisions to join the anti-American forces. Political and social tensions and strong nationalist sentiments are also part of hostilities, and organizations such as al-Qaeda provide an outlet through which people can voice these hostilities.
    I believe that American exceptionalism and a desire to export “universal values” to the rest of the world has contributed to a rise of anti-Americanism sentiment, not an increase in believers of al-Qaeda. A UN report from 2004 concluded that al-Qaeda had received increases in recruiting in 30 to 40 countries, with volunteers “beating down the door” to join up.
    This shows that by imposing its culture and values on the rest of the world, the US government has received a back lash. US foreign policy has ignored some threats and sparked others.
    In short, “Americanism” can only survive inside America. The rest of the world can no longer be forced to accept the hegemony of the US.

  17. says

    A few more links for ‘milly’, above, on what sorts of ‘grievances’ really drive Muslim aggression.

    A Hugh Fitzgerald article, on the ’95 other things that also fuel Muslim extremism’.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/10/fitzgerald-95-things-that-fuel-muslim-extremism.html

    I encourage all persons new to this forum to read Mr Fitzgerald’s essay, which is most illuminating.

    And ‘Abul Kasem’, apostate from Islam, on what Muslims mean when they think they are ‘oppressed’.

    WHEN IS ISLAM OPPRESSED? – ABUL KASEM

    http://www.islam-watch.org/AbulKasem/IslamOppressed.htm

    When is Islam Oppressed?
    by Abul Kasem
    20 Nov, 2005

    From that article, just to get the flavour:

    “Below, I have listed a few innocuous activities, manners, social customs, traditions and the daily way of life, which the Kafirs blithely take for granted but which are extremely un-Islamic.

    “According to Islamic morals, customs and laws, these offensive activities/practices might be construed as oppressive to Islam and, therefore, they are legitimate targets for eradication, or they must be replaced by Islamic practices or Islamic purification”….

    Click on the link, anyone reading this who hasn’t yet read Abul Kasem’s excellent article.
    You will then see that the argument presented by ‘milly’ in her, or his, posting above, is perfectly nonsensical.

    Now for my third item, which is both hilarious and horrible:

    http://amboytimes.typepad.com/the_amboy_times/2007/02/the_list_of_thi.html

    FEBRUARY 12, 2007
    The List of Things That Offend Muslims

    The author’s introduction:

    “This list is a work in progress. I welcome suggestions. Anyone who has more items to add to the list, post them in the comments.

    “The intent of the list is to illustrate the futility of the multicultural approach to Islam.

    “Sharia law demands submission not only from Muslims, but from non-Muslims as well. This makes respectful coexistence nearly impossible with Muslims in Infidel lands.

    “The examples below serve as reminder that submitting to one complaint or another only emboldens Muslims to seek to further their ultimate goal of establishing sharia.”

    The list is very long, and continually grows longer.

    Here is just a sample of what’s on it, to encourage new readers at this forum to click on the link, and read it all. Each item, at the original site, is linked to a source.

    ‘Flags

    The English Flag being flown in England, as well as St. George Pins, worn by Englishmen in England, Austrian flag, Soccer Ball with Saudi Flag, Stepping on Makeshift Hamas and Hezbollah Flags, Ref’s whistle with the Swiss Cross, The Israeli Flag, and of course…the American Flag.

    ‘Buildings

    ‘The World Trade Center, The Pentagon, The Giant Buddhas [i.e. the Bamiyan Buddhas – dda], The new Apple store in Manhattan. 
The Beslan Memorial, Pool halls and coffee shops, Movie Theaters, the Graves of Biblical Joshua and Caleb, The Eiffel Tower, Coffee Shops.”

  18. says

    The crux of this article is also the crux of the entire problem of the danger of Islam:

    Yet it is that very ordinariness that has police and security experts concerned. How are they to spot potential terrorists before it’s too late?

    This by itself would not necessarily be a big problem or a big danger for our societies.

    1) If Muslims weren’t driven by a mass-murderous fanaticism more fervent than any other mass-murderous ideology in history up to the present (including Nazism and Communism);

    2) If in their mass-murderous fanaticism Muslims were not seeking to mass-murder as many as possible of us and destroy as much of our infrastructure as possible, in a series of brazenly dramatic attacks throughout the West that would take years of patient planning coupled with many ‘dry runs';

    3) If their Islamic ideology were not motivated by a militantly expansive supremacism enjoying, and directly informed by, a historical legacy of conquest greater than that of the Roman Empire or Alexander the Great;

    4) If Muslims were not globally dispersed and aided by an international grapevine of fellow Muslims in terms of communications, travel, financing and materiel;

    And finally,

    5) If Muslims weren’t increasingly infiltrating and ensconcing their numbers in our societies through immigration and through our own naive PC MC solicitude that invites them into our institutions of media, academe, technological and scientific research & application, business and politics —

    then the crux I quoted above would not be that much of a danger.

    But 1, 3, 4 and 5 are real factors, and particularly #4 and #5 have been happening for years, if not decades (and by a perverse dynamic, increasingly so after 911); while #2 may with eminent reasonableness be expected.

    Because of this, the optimum rational response by us would be not merely closing the barn door after the wolves have got in, but total deportation of all Muslims.

  19. says

    As a former Winnipegger, congratulations to Skyward for the courage and vigilance he/she displayed by photographing the anti-Semitic graffiti on a neighbourhood sidewalk. It is unfortunate that members of the Winnipeg Police Department failed to grasp the seriousness of the graffiti. The question “Are you a Jew?” could be construed as anti-Semitic in itself, Mr. Gestapo.

    PS I am a newcomer to Jihad Watch and I recently noticed a comment that newcomers should tone down their comments so as “not to make us all look bad.” If I am one of these neophyte offenders, please let me know and I will dilute my comments; I have no intention of making Jihad Watch or its members look bad.

  20. says

    So resisting jihad causes jihad?

    But not resisting jihad doesn’t stop jihad; instead, you get tromped on by jihadis and end up subject to Muslim sharia despotism.

    Further: Jihad has been going on for some 1400 years, on three continents (now, on five – the Americas and Australia being now accessible to Muslims, along with their traditional prey in Europe, Asia and Africa).

    What caused Jihad when a. Israel didn’t exist and b. for those 1200 years when America didn’t exist?

    And if you think it’s all about the grievances caused by blundering and ill-advised US foreign policy…no it ain’t. (Look up ‘Barbary Pirates’ to find out where, and when, Muslim jihadists first attacked the USA. If you are not a Muslim, you will probably be quite surprised).

    See ‘The Al-Qaeda Reader’ and get a clue.

    Also, Islam is the Religion of Perpetual Outrage. *Everything* offends Muslims. Living on the same planet as Islam, when you’re non-Muslim, there isn’t a single thing you can do to be sure of avoiding offending Muslims…except convert to Islam, or cease to exist. Breathing while Infidel, offends Muslims.

    Here is a very good article that Christopher Hitchens wrote in the ‘Mirror’ in 2005, just after the Muslim jihad bombings of London buses and the Underground.

    WE CANNOT SURRENDER: States which shelter these killers will know no peace

    By Christopher Hitchens

    ‘SOMEWHERE around London at about a quarter to nine yesterday morning, there must have been people turning on their TV and radio sets with a look of wolfish expectation.
    I hope and believe that they were disappointed in what they got. There just wasn’t quite enough giggle-value for the psychopath.

    ‘It must have been infernal underneath King’s Cross, but above ground no panic, no screaming, no wailing and beating the air, no yells for vengeance.

    ‘I’m writing this in the early aftermath, but I would be willing to bet there will have been little or no bloody foolishness, either: no random attacks on mosques or shops or individuals. After all, devices on our buses and tubes are an open proclamation that the perpetrators don’t care if they kill Muslims. Which, of course, is part of the point. When we use the weak and vague word “terrorism” we imply indiscriminate cruelty directed at civilians.

    “Sadism” or “fascism” or “nihilism” would do just as nicely: all the venom that lurks just on the sub-human level of the human species.

    ‘In a tightly interwoven society, all that this poison has to do is ally itself with a certain low cunning.

    ‘People are afraid of plane crashes and of heights: in that sense 9/11 was the perfect strike on the collective unconscious. People are likewise afraid of fire and of crowded or subterranean conditions: the mind of the fascist is naturally attuned to exploit such dreads. I am guessing the planners of this coordinated atrocity hoped for more mayhem than they got, but the casualty figures are in a sense beside the point.

    ‘WE all knew this was coming, and that one day a homely and familiar name like Tavistock Square would become a synonym for barbarism. The good old red London bus, a worldwide symbol of our capital, ripped to shards in an instant.

    ‘Random and “senseless” though such violence may appear, we also all know it expresses a deadly ideology; indeed that in some ways it is that ideology.

    ‘The preachers of this faith have taken care to warn us that they love death more than we love life. Their wager is that this makes them unstoppable. Well, we shall have to see.
    ‘They certainly cannot prove their point unless we assist them in doing so.

    ‘My American friends have been impressed by the composure of the Londoners they have seen on the screen: I bet London Transport runs again rather sooner than US airlines resumed flying after 9/11.

    ‘I remember living in London through the Provisional IRA bombing in the 70s. I saw the very first car-bomb explode against the Old Bailey in 1972. There was no warning that time, but after a while a certain etiquette developed.

    ‘And, even as I detested the people who might have just as soon have blown me up as anyone else, I was aware there were ancient disputes involved, and that there was a potential political solution.

    ‘**Nothing of the sort applies in this case. We know very well what the “grievances” of the jihadists are.** {my emphasis – dda}.
    {And here is the part of the article that matters, that needs to be learned by heart – dda}.

    ‘The grievance of seeing unveiled women.

    ‘The grievance of the existence, not of the State of Israel, but of the Jewish people.

    ‘The grievance of the heresy of democracy, which impedes the imposition of sharia law.

    ‘The grievance of a work of fiction written by an Indian living in London.

    ‘The grievance of the existence of black African Muslim farmers, who won’t abandon lands in Darfur.

    ‘The grievance of the existence of homosexuals.

    ‘The grievance of music, and of most representational art.

    ‘The grievance of the existence of Hinduism.

    ‘The grievance of East Timor’s liberation from Indonesian rule.

    ‘All of these have been proclaimed as a licence to kill infidels or apostates, or anyone who just gets in the way.

    ‘FOR a few moments yesterday, Londoners received a taste of what life is like for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, whose Muslim faith does not protect them from slaughter at the hands of those who think they are not Muslim enough, or are the wrong Muslim.

    ‘It is a big mistake to believe this is an assault on “our” values or “our” way of life.

    ‘It is, rather, an assault on all civilisation. {Nota bene: in the early centuries of Jihad, Muslims waged jihad on their own polytheistic Arab kin, on Zoroastrian Persians, on Jews, on Byzantine and Coptic Christians, on black Africans, and on Buddhists and Hindus in what are now Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India – societies wildly differing in level of civilisation, in religion, in language and culture – dda. Does Milly want us to believe that somehow all those wildly different societies had wronged Muslims, and deserved to be punished for it?}

    ‘I know perfectly well there are people thinking, and even saying, that Tony Blair brought this upon us by his alliance with George Bush.

    ‘A word of advice to them: try and keep it down, will you?

    ‘Or wait at least until the funerals are over.

    ‘And beware of the non-sequitur: you can be as opposed to the Iraq operation as much as you like, but you can’t get from that “grievance” to the detonating of explosives at rush hour on London buses and tubes.

    ‘Don’t even try to connect the two.

    ‘By George Galloway’s logic, British squaddies in Iraq are the root cause of dead bodies at home.

    ‘How can anyone bear to be so wicked and stupid?

    ‘How can anyone bear to act as a megaphone for psychotic killers?

    ‘**The grievances I listed above are unappeasable, one of many reasons why the jihadists will lose.
    They demand the impossible – the cessation of all life in favour of prostration before a totalitarian vision.** {my emphasis – dda].

    ‘Plainly, we cannot surrender. There is no one with whom to negotiate, let alone capitulate.

    ‘We shall track down those responsible. States that shelter them will know no peace.
    ‘Communities that shelter them do not take forever to discover their mistake.

    ‘And their sordid love of death is as nothing compared to our love of London, which we will defend as always, and which will survive this with ease.” END.

  21. says

    Milly,
    There is no way the US can win.

    If we stay out of others’ business then we are selfish and lazy. If we try to help then we are greedy and arrogant. I would close America’s doors to Muslims the world over. If this country is so evil, NONE of them should want to come here. If they don’t want to associate with us then we won’t force them. Let them throw all the oil companies out of their countries and run the system themselves and see how far they get. If love of life is a “universal value” that should not be exported then let them all die in their own country. No food exports, no UN, no nothing. What goes around comes around. Islamism can only be allowed in Islamic countries.

  22. says

    “For example, suicide bombers come from moderate, middle class families, more educated and economically advantaged and drawn to martyrdom (not out of finanical desperation as Western media would portray) but because of intense resentment for American foriegn policy and the history of American oil policy in the Middle East.”

    This is not America vs. middle east, as you are portraying it to be. What about the jihad in India, Thailand, Philippines, Sudan, Somalia and pretty much everywhere that Islam is taken seriously. Jihad is a 1400 year old phenomenon, starting before the nation of America was created !

    “Basically, higher education gives these people the intellectual resources to critically interpret US foreign policy. They are not acting out of irrational anger.”

    I am sure, most of us can ‘critically interpret’ different policies, but are not drawn to murdering innocents. And I agree, they are not acting out of ‘irrational anger’. They are acting according to the instructions and example of their cult leader, who claimed to be a ‘prophet’ of God.

    “I would also argue that Islamic texts and teachings are a factor, but not a deciding factor, in all decisions to join the anti-American forces.”

    Jihad is not just anti-America. It is anti-infidels, all infidels. If jihad was only being directed against America, I would have perhaps considered that our policies are causing this. That is simply not true. Jihad is directed against anything un-islamic for past 1400 years.

  23. says

    Susanp wrote:

    “Mosque infiltration might help but the best solution to this daunting problem would be to reduce the number of potential jihadists with a moratorium on muslim immigration.”

    The only way Susanp’s solution would work is if we began implementing it today — coupled with extraordinary measures of intrusion and surveillance into the daily lives of the millions of Muslims already present throughout the West.

    But since we know this isn’t going to happen today, and since the West, so heavily affected by its PC MC won’t even begin to entertain the notion for at least another decade or two (and I am being very generous in this estimation — it would be more like 50 years), then such a solution would be like closing the barn door after the wolves have got in.

    Indeed, with the millions of Muslims already ensconced in the West now, even if we halted further immigration today, we would still be in this situation of closing the barn door after the wolves have got in. It would be reasonable to assume that among those millions of Muslims already in the West innumerable and unidentifiable numbers of them would “radicalize” even further and the threat of horrific attacks on us from within would only escalate — and, as the article above intimates, many would “radicalize” without any external evidence manifesting to warn us. We would then be compelled, as I said above, to treat these millions of Muslims already in the West as potential hostiles.

    I say let’s put all our mental energies into the only idea that makes sense: total deportation of all Muslims out of the West. The more people that think this idea, the more people that communicate it, the more it will snowball over time and generate change. Societies don’t undergo paradigm shifts by some automatic process: societal change happens through people. Let’s be the nucleus of this Great Reawakening of the West. It has to start somewhere. Let’s not fritter away our mental-cultural energies on diagnoses, ideas and proposals that are rationally unsound.

  24. says

    Regardless of the police response or lack thereof, it’s important for ordinary citizens to be alert. I also recently found graffiti written inside of one of the books on the subject of Islam that I recently borrowed. To cite a few examples:

    “No loyalty to Canada only to your Muslim brothers and sisters.”

    “Note Canadian soldiers rape Muslim women in Afghanistan and I … to take revenge on this nation.”

    “Jizya… a great tax”

    The book was “Islam and Human Rights” (2007) by Mayer which compared the two legal systems, of Sharia as applied in various societies at various times, and the international human rights, and this spewing of hatred and resentment to me is another reminder of “Muslim sensitivity” which so often escalates into violence. Of course, I will report this vandalism and see how the library will respond.

    (I also live in the Toronto neighbourhood where one of the Toronto 18 suspects lived and attended the same high school my sons attended.)

  25. says

    you said, “Electronic components and schematics can be used for ANYTHING there are NO specific schematics or components for IED’s don’t you understand”

    Yes, electronic componants can be used for a lot of things but not for everything, they have different specifications. a schemetic is like a map of the city, each city is different and so are schemetics.

    you said , “The third studied to be an electrical engineer…” Last time I checked, Electronists can do a perfect job as Electricians, but never the other way around !! Never !!

    Now you are really confusing me, what are you trying to say? there are no such occupations as electronists. first of all electrical engineers are equivalent to electronic engineers but both aren’t electricians. Electricians are part of the building trades and it requires a journeyman license to practice after you go to a trade school. Electronic technician also requires a 2 year degree or a trade school but they aren’t qualified to do an electrician’s job either.
    Face it Bozo, these islamic terrorists wanabees wanted to ship all the parts and technical know how to make and assemble IED’s.