Kashmir: Muslims pressure Sikhs to convert or leave

" Meanwhile, jihadist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani is urging the Sikhs to relax and ignore the letters".

A clever ploy to lull the Sikhs into false sense of security. Among Indians it is only Sikhs who are plucky enough to fight them. Obviously Geelani does not want the Sikhs to be vigilant enough.

Indian Home Minister a very genteel person is scared of mentioning even the word ' jihad '. Hence his assurances to Sikhs ' have no fear ' sound so hollow.

This is not new. A report in Times of India of today (21st August) page 11 says that a Jain Temple has been burnt down in kashmir.

The intolerance level in Muslims is phenomenal. If they live in peace and allow others to live in Peace, then everything would be fine.

While they do not want Sikhs, Pundits or Buddhists & Jains in the valley or destroy their temples, they want as a right a mosque at ground zero.

The question here is not of the American Constitution; yes, the constitution does provide that right, but do you have conscience? How you can be so utterly insensitive. The attack of 9/11 had impacted Americans as nothing else. Then why this insistence of building the mosque there. This is like rubbing salt into the wounds.
An old structure, Babri masjid, in Ayodhya was razed down. There was and there are riots & what not? Now when a Jain temple is razed, Bamiyan Buddhas are destroyed, Dhakeswari Temple in Dhaka is defiled and vanadlized, where are the protests? What the moderate Muslims have to say about this?

For the history of Islamic attacks on Sikhs see http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/muslim-attacks-on-sikhs-islamic-jihad.html

http://milkman.cc/2010/08/burka-verbot-in-deutschland-verfassungswidrig-nein.html

This is a German Professor of constitutional law. He explains:

" Individual muslims have the right to their religious denomination, which cannot be denied to them. But, the practice of Islam is restricted because the religion Islam is not protected by the constitution. Islam is unconstitutional because it is essentially a system of law, which is irreconcilable with a democratic constitution.... Islam contradicts with democratic government, men and women are not equal before the law, ... but first and foremost Islam does not respect the concept, which is the basis for religious pluralism and that is secularization, that is the separation of political power and religion. Therefore, Islam may not invoke the freedom of practicing its religion under Art. 4(2) of the German constitution. This would give Islam rights, which would contradict with the essentials of the constitutional order..."

Thus proving, again, extremists rule the battle field, which is located anywhere on earth where more than a dozen Muslims live.

Mohamed was the first Muslim extremist. Today a small percentage of this bloodthirsty cult follow his example, religiously -- that's all that's necessary. All the rest give us a Muslim smiley-face and say "Islam means peace" every two minutes, like mindless talking dolls (made in China).

Fact: When Muslims rip off native lands, multicultural appeasers-of-Islam (traitors), Hollywood and the Big Media (BM) totally ignore it, but if Jews try to hang on to land they've lived on since 2,000 years before the First Muslim Extremist was even born, it's front page news, 24/7/365.

I post my comments in reply to Fitna from another article on JW on the same subject:

"Alas, you are so right. Indian leaders when they had a chance of getting rid of these peple forever, they opted to let them stay just to show to the world th at Hindus can be secular and can live in harmony even with former butchers of Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists. Mind you Muslims demanded and get a separate nation and in that case all Muslims should have been totally expelled from India.

Now the situation is so bad - the Muslim population has grown four folds since independence from 40 million to 150 million and as usual their demands for more rights are growing. also Muslims were allowed to practice sharia in civil matters but not in criminal matters where the Indian courts take over.

Well the opportunity was lost and India will become Islamic just by the force of demographic bomb( or should I say womb).

Muslims slaughtered 80 to 100 million Hindus,Sikhs, Buddhists, etc and yet Hindu leaders in their infinite wisdom let the Muslims stay in India and the present day Indians will pay the price.

Just look at the audacity of Kashmiri Muslims - they are threatening Sikhs to convert. As of last time I checked Kashmir was still part of India. Non-Muslims in India are being threatened by Muslims to convert to Islam. Shame on this India government that panders to Muslims in India and doesn't care for the rights of Hindus and others.

There has to be uprising of Hindus and Sikhs and other non-Muslims in India to face the threat of Muslims right in their own country."

Instead of leaving Kashmir under the control of a country that functions,India, muslims want to drag it into the NON-function domain of Pakistan.

And what will that get them? Muslim control over everything. Which is the goal everywhere. (Plus maybe more foreign aid.)

After they get control they will be able to make the area SO bad, that many will leave, traveling to another area of India where soon they will start being 'restive' again and seeking control.

That is always the pattern.

That professor is right.

Islamism is a very slow but stubborn grinding machine of 1400 years. It is grinding humanity. To stop this , the machine needs to be 'broken' first . Otherwise it will continue & destroy whole humanity in due course of time.

I'm an anti-theist, but I have always, from a scientifically-minded perspective, HOPED that perhaps instead of a "God", we humans might have a scientifically-minded progenitor somewhere, out there.

We know now how vast the universe is said to be, but we can never really UNDERSTAND that vastness for what it is, as we are, stuck on Earth (for the most part).

In my fantasies on this subject, I picture a race of beings, millions of millions of years more advanced than we, who at some point in the past seeded various life-supporting planets for their own purposes, be they benevolent or for profit or what have you.

I fantasize that someday they'll come back to check on our progress, for if they created us they surely understand our POTENTIAL as human beings, even if we don't understand THEIR intentions for us.

I wonder, as they arrive and make themselves known, what reaction from various groups of humans they'll receive?

For the West, the secular, enlightend, scientific West this will be the greatest of all things! The religious folks (non-Muslims) might have a bit of an issue with the whole "God" thing going out the window; for here, before you, is your CREATOR. And they can PROVE they are, you don't have to just take it on faith that they are.

I think the West would do very well if a Progenitor showed up, provided they are not back to do humanity harm, but instead created us for peaceful, benevolent purposes.

Then my fantasy gets really INTERESTING when I think about how the Muslim world would take this news!

It goes on and on in my mind for awhile, different scenarios, but it ends up with the Progenitor informing the defiant and increasingly violent Muslims that their resistance will not be tolerated further and that they have three choices:

1- Denounce Islam and submit to humanity.
2- Live as Muslims, but all contained on one seperate continent where they will have zero interaction with humanity.
3. Die.

Hey, a girl can DREAM of awesome things, can't she??

(I'm sure that someone, somewhere has already written this scenario before, I just have yet to find it, so I had to make up my own)

Just to clarify, #3 cannot be "do battle." It is "die."

There is no resisiting the Progenitor, nothing can stop it, and its will is final. There is no fighting it, and it cares not about the human loss that will come with so many deaths of those who defy its will.

Its will just is.

You see, it visited earth before, some 5,000 years ago in order to check up on our progress, and its creations, in succeeding generations, distorted (for various innocent/not so innocent reasons) its overall image and message, and thus created what we in the Judeo-Christian world know as the Old Testament "God."

It is not angry or vindictive, it was just misunderstood. And it will take no particular pleasure in making clear to certain people that it was never, EVER, known as "Allah."

OK I'm done. Sorry!

An important hint to the fact that Kashmir crisis is more of a Jihadi agenda than the honest fight of Kashmiris against Indian establishment:

http://news.rediff.com/interview/2010/aug/17/interview-kashmirs-most-wanted-woman-speaks-out.htm

The punch line of the article is

``It is absolutely Islamic. Prophet Mohammed himself has thrown stones. If anyone says stone-throwing is un-Islamic, it is they who don't know their Islam.''

Crows&cows says: "A clever ploy to lull the Sikhs into false sense of security. Among Indians it is only Sikhs who are plucky enough to fight them. Obviously Geelani does not want the Sikhs to be vigilant enough."

No doubt, Sikhs have been fearsome fighters against the slimey greens (muslims), they are not the only ones. My ancestors--Marathas-- from Western part of India (present day State of Maharashtra) gave these barbarians a bloody nose time after time. Our greatest ancestor was the warrior king Shiva ji who NEVER allowed islam any space in that part of India. It will again be Marathas who will show islam its place in the garbage bin.

It is high time the Hindus organized themselves and tell these slimes "embrace/revert back to Hindu fold or get out of India".

Our greatest ancestor was the warrior king Shiva ji who NEVER allowed islam any space in that part of India.

Really? Maratha empire was no reconquista. Some of Shivaji's generals were actually Muslims. One of the reasons why the Confederacy died on the battle fields of Panipat is because Peshwas started acting like Mughals and were in bed with Indian Muslim powers esp. Rohillas. Anyhow if you ever visit Kashmir, you'll realise that Maratha Light Infantry played a huge role in actually quashing the jihad there...

Our greatest ancestor was the warrior king Shiva ji who NEVER allowed islam any space in that part of India.

Greatest ancestor, yes. But he never recognized the fundamental evil of Islam. He fought Islamic rule, defeated Islamic armies, but never threw away Islam itself.

Hindus always regarded the barbaric practices of Islam, as a 'misinterpretation', and relied on the mumbo-jumbo of a few sufis to (mis-)understand Islam. Shivaji fought Islamic empires, but 'respected' Sufis. Clearly, he didnot understand that he was fighting a war against Islam.

Regardless, present day India exists, thanks to Shivaji's pioneering resistance. Else, we would have had a few more Af-Pak Jihadistans in the subcontinent today.

If I may make an observation.

Above, different posters from India have mentioned different Indian groups and individuals who - whether they fully knew what they were doing, or not - resisted the Jihad.

Shivaji and the Maratha fought against the Muslims.

The Sikhs fought against the Muslims.

I understand, too, that the Gurkhas fought against the Muslims.

What matters today is 1. to honour all of them - at least they tried. Then, 2. to look at how they *all* did - not to quarrel over who was more important, but just to look at what *works* and what doesn't, when you're fighting against the Jihad.

India needs all her warriors: she needs them to be well informed (and there is no reason why they shouldn't be, the information is now there, thanks to all kinds of people), and all pointing in the same direction. And so do all the other kafir countries!

Furthermore, today we non-Muslims on five continents (Australia, Asia, Europe, Africa, Americas) can look at each other's histories and study all the Infidel resisters of the past, not just in India but across the world. We can look at what was done by all the peoples that had to defend themselves against Islam, or perish. In Africa, the Ethiopians. In Europe, the Greeks and the Spaniards and the Portuguese, the Serbs and the Bulgarians, who were conquered, and ruled for centuries by viciously cruel Muslim masters but, slowly, grimly, fought back and freed themselves, at tremendous cost. The Chinese in the 1860s and in the 1930s, and how they dealt with three massive jihad uprisings from within - the Dungan rebellion, the so-called 'Panthay' rebellion among Muslims in Yunnan, and the 'Gobi jihad' of the 1930s. Today, the IDF defending Israel: 1948-49, 1953, 1967, 1973, 1982 in Lebanon. And that's only some.

I don't know whether our Foreign Affairs diplomats or our journalists or the people who teach our soldiers and policemen in their training academies know much about this stuff at the moment; so it's up to us, to what Hugh Fitzgerald calls 'the unsung history boys', to learn the lessons, share our stories, compare notes, and spread what we learn so that sometime soon our politicians and our soldiers and policemen *will* know what works when you're fighting Mohammedan insurrection and Mohammedan invaders.

Shivaji was indeed an inspirational figure for all Indians. But sadly very few non-Marathi Indians care to study our history. And given Bombay based media's (which shapes national perception) condenscent attitude towards Maharashtrian people, culture and history in general, story of Shivaji has been reduced to a mere footnote in Indian national history. He was our bonnie prince charlie, joan d'arc and charles martel all rolled into one.

Sadly his legacy has been pretty much usurped by every two bit politician/intellectual in Maharashtra over last 300 years. It's no surprise that other Indians are apathetic to Shivaji. That Fabian idiot Nehru even went as far as to write that Shivaji and his Marathas were just two bit barbarians. As a part Maratha i have indeed been raised on ballads of Shivaji, his quest to carve out an empire from his small fiefdom, how a man and his people derided as mere Deccan rats would go on to destroy the very foundations of Islamic rule in India. But if you ever objectively study his story, his was an ethno-nationalistic struggle, it may have helped other Hindus as well, but reversing Islamisation was never his concern. The confederacy he birthed would go on to try and defend Mughal India at Panipat 150 years later, wiping out 10% of Maratha population in the process.

P.S. People should actually read up on his little known son Sambhaji a man who refused to convert to Islam after being captured by the Mughals. His tongue was cut off, and body was skinned at the stake with salt rubbed into his wounds, yet he refused to submit. His death now, is a truly inspirational story.

Be they Shias or Sunnis. When pitted against us the Infidels they bury their differences & gang up together.

Land or Territory called Kashmir never asks for seceding from India. It is the muslims who want to. That way muslims in any part of the world or India want to hold themselves in superior relief citing some reason or other & sharpen their knives.

Hence the best solution is to deport them all to Saudi Arabia / Iran. They can live in close proximity to their own people , share all the riches , cultural affinities & feel fulfilled.

Kashmiri Shias actually WANT to remain with India. No Shia in his right mind would submit to a Sunni dominated Islamist state!

Those Iranian ayatollahs are probably the only reliable Muslim ally India would have. Do you think those Israelis have a special place in their hearts for Hindus? You'd be surprised my friend. World doesn't work that way, all India must care about is its self interest. You can't just wish away Indian Muslims, they are far too many in number to be "sent packing". All India can do is reach a compact with them for a truly secular state with a common civil code.

Hurriyat leader himself says they don't belong to India. Self interest is too vague a term. All said and done it is their ideology which is always inimical.Do you think after decades of pampering they are going to submit to a common civil code ? Kashmiri Pundits are languishing as refugees elsewhere. Why no punishment at all for their mass slayings by the kashmiri muslims ?

Read the following by Chandan Mitra :-

" Last week I also participated in a laudable effort ...to initiate a dialogue with young Kashmiri students and teachers. In collaboration with the Islamic University of Science and Technology, Avantipora, more that 60 Kashmiri youth, including some Hindus studying outside the Valley, came for a two-day dialogue with intellectuals, politicians, Ministers and other members of the Establishment in Delhi. In my brief interaction with them I was distressed to find their minds were rigid and unwilling to accept even logical explanations from non-Kashmiri Muslim interlocuters. They talked of azadi, plebiscite, unconditional withdrawal of Indian security forces and other demands that are anathema to people outside the Valley.

Many were openly supportive of stone-pelting as a legitimate weapon in the hands of “oppressed and unarmed” people. .. The dialogue allowed us to get a perspective of their minds and they too were happy at the chance to vent their pent up grievances. But it also brought home to me the extent of the gulf that has opened up between the Valley’s New Generation and the rest of India — a gulf that now seems almost impossible to bridge.

Exaggerated and imagined grievances are feeding real angst and the collapse of the political leadership in the Valley has created a vacuum that is fast being occupied by separatists fanning an Intifada-type uprising. Militants have managed to raise a hysteric pitch that glorifies ‘martyrdom’; housewives are prodding their young children to take on security forces; individual State police officials are being subjected to social boycott in their villages. The ISI and other masterminds across the border are delighted by the turn of events. Politicians of all hues are scurrying for cover....

Cross-border sponsors of militancy do not need to smuggle in assorted Afghans, Sudanese and Chechens to do their dirty work in Kashmir. Misguided, vocal and violence-prone young people in the Valley have become the vanguard of separatism, even if they are actually in a minority.

Given this grim reality, is there a way out? ... The rest of India will have to reconcile itself to the fact that the Kashmir Valley is now an internal conflict zone where a mini-Intifada is in progress ".

I came across this information on the Kashmir valley riots:

BG Varghese, The Deccan Herald (July 13) warns not to mistake what is happening in a small part of the Valley as happening all over Kashmir. Nothing of the sort. Verghese says "there is by now fairly well-documented evidence of intercepts, that separatists and cross-border mentors are instigating, funding, recruiting and organising your stone pelters through agent provocateurs".

And that "mosques are being used as political platforms, giving murderous agitation a righteous Jihadi halo from touch-me-not sanctuaries".

I have known a few Sikhs, they will not bow to threats. I hope the UK will support them in any event, as Sikhs have a history of supporting them.