Mosque used by some of the world's foremost Misunderstanders of Islam finally closed

Well good, you found another source Robert. This could give rise to the following discussion:

Does shutting down the mosque infringe upon the religious freedom of muslims? What are the limits of religious tolerance?

Yes, shutting down a place of warship trespasses on the religious freedom of a group. But, I think shutting down the mosque is completely justified. Religious freedom has its limits. But this point is never really discussed rationally.

Are there limits and what are the limits for freedom of religion?

All the best

bhigr

http://www.abendblatt.de/hamburg/kommunales/article1593516/Innenbehoerde-und-Polizei-schliessen-Hamburger-Terror-Treff.html
"Innenbehörde und Polizei schließen Hamburger Terror-Treff"
(Interior Ministry and police close Hamburg terror meeting)

How very strange that the mosque used by the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks is closed in Hamburg just when a new mosque has been given the green light by the authorities in New York on the exact place where the 9/11 attacks took place.

May the dominoes sequentially continue to tumble all the back to the Kabba. Enough is Enough.

May the dominoes sequentially continue to tumble all the back to the Kabba. Enough is Enough.

Here is some more background information:

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/germany-shut-911-plotters-mosque-20100809-11trj.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10911542

This is an interesting development. However, some questions.

Is it really closed for good? Will the mosque building be used for some other non-Islamic purpose? Who owns the building? Is there a chance it might be used as a Mosque or something like an Islamic 'cultural center' yet again after a slew of lies are accepted by the German authorities about good behavior etc..?

Does anyone know........?

1 down, 2.500.000 to go.

The closing of the mosque is a good symbol of resistance, but the Mosquers will just change the name and location, and continue as before...I bet they all did not move to Uzbekistan...

Religious freedom is like freedom of association. Yes, there was an American Communist Party during the cold war. But the government still kept tabs on its members given their anti-American rhetoric. The minute a member of the American Communist Party conspired with Moscow or China in their attempts to overthrow the American government, he/she would be arrested and rightly so.

Similarly, anybody is entitled to have any "religious" belief they want. The moment they act on it and conspire to overthrow the American government or conspire to attempt to murder kaffirs (i.e., 9-11), they should be arrested not for their thoughts but for their actions.

The Jewish nation's archaeological treasures in Israel are proof of its historical claim to the land. For some time the Muslims have systematically been destroying these ancient Biblical treasures wherever they find them.

http://jewishdailyreport.wordpress.com/2010/08/09/muslims-engaged-in-massive-destruction-jewish-biblical-sites-in-jerusalem/

Well, this is what wikipedia says about the limits of religious freedom according to the German constitution. Now people apparently dispute the limits but agree that these limits exist:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religionsfreiheit_in_Deutschland

"The constitutional fundamental right to freedom of religion has a stronger protective effect than that of the European Convention on Human Rights because it is not - according to the Constitutional Court [10] - under a reservation of a restrictive law, but only limited by the fundamental rights of third parties, and basic value decisions of the Basic Law. A strong dissenting opinion holds that religious freedom could be exercised only within the framework of the simple law . This view is justified by the fact that Article 140 of the Basic Law in conjunction with Article 136 Paragraph 1 WRV is full-blown constitutional law.

Because of the limits in freedom of religion in order to protect the rights of third parties or other constitutional principles, parents must send their children to school even if their beliefs do not agree with the teaching of their children, such as the theory of evolution or sex education..."

This is a very important point, which is hardly ever debated. Next time one of those CAIR activists invokes freedom of religion, well one should point out that it has its limits!

a couple of folks touched on the issue: what becomes of the mosque now.
I think the real problem is two fold. One, is that no area that is owned by a muslim, ie a mosque and cultural center can revert to non muslim ownership. It becomes permanently, muslim property.
Now... as one suggested, maybe they just move it- as the jihadists of murder type did by going to uzbekistan, but the stealth jihadists there? Where do and did they go? And what of the actual land, doesn't it become part of the islamic Waqf, as such?

This should be all over the press in NYC and our nation. The shame of allowing these would be and actual murderers and homicidists to exist in a free land using freedom of religion when their expressed and unexpressed raison de tre' is the submission and or end of infidels all.

why did it take 9 years?

"A mosque which used to be a meeting place for the September 11 attackers has been closed, German authorities have said."

Now we're talkin'. May there be a domino effect.

Supplementary:

"Mosque Used By 9/11 Bombers Shut Down"

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Germany-Mosque-Connected-With-9-11-Suicide-Bombers-Closed-In-Hamburg-Because-Of-Jihad-Fears/Article/201008215679435?f=rss

Thanks for the link Thomas. This will please Robert Spencer:

"A very important factor for the radicalisation of the group members was certainly their joint visits to the mosque," the intelligence report stated.

O.K. what happened?

http://translate.google.de/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fpolitik%2Fdeutschland%2F0%2C1518%2C710898%2C00.html&sl=de&tl=en

"Early Monday morning the Hamburg Police step up: At 6 clock officials and civil investigators screened the rooms of the Taiba mosque, the related Arab-German Association and housing support from club members. The mosque in the suburb of St. George was closed with immediate effect, the club is prohibited, its property and documents have been confiscated.

What was the reason / justification?

"The Taiba club is accused of having plotted against the liberal democratic order and violate the concept of international understanding. In sermons, training courses, seminars and the Internet the organization has spread for years "a widespread anti-democratic ideology," said Ahlhaus."

Well, this is the first time to my knowledge that a mosque or any house of worship has been shut down on the ground of spreading an anti-democratic ideology.

It will be interesting to follow the subsequent court hearings. More valuable material for Robert Spencer!

Germany is OBVIOUSLY racist in this decision. How dare they discriminate against terrorists?!

What took them so long?

O.K. this link is interesting for anybody who understands German. These are lectures of a salafi teacher from marocco who taught in the 9/11 mosque in the year 2000.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-266562441011135370#

It'd be interesting to take a poll among Muslims and find out what they think of this radical Hamburg mosque shutting down. Good or bad? The answers would be telling...

It's time to end these semantic forays by stripping away the "religion" excuse from islam. Islam differs little from National Socialism and Communism but for their pretense as a religion. There is more than enough evidence extant to determine their deeds and intentions. Mosques are nothing less than houses of sedition, whose stated goal is to promote islamic domination and hegemony.

Any "religion" which declares itelf an enemy of our freedom should and must be stopped in its tracks in the national interest, without excuse or exception. We need to get inside these mosques and record what's preached. If it's what we think it is, in come the federal marshalls, down goes the mosque and out goes the imam, next flight out to muslimville.

Sorry to say, but that's how it is. We didn't ask for this; islam, by its nature, forced this on us. They'll ride this "religion" horse until they stampede our rights, our culture, all we hold dear. If we continue allowing them to hide behind the pretense of religion, we'll get what we deserve. And I think we deserve better than islam...

The German Ummah branch quite possibly have been informed to close shop pack-up and get ready for a brand spanking new $100 million crib in lower Manhattan at 9/11 ground zero site all courtesy of our unwtting,cry-baby, insta-dhimmi Mikey Bin Bloomberg and Barry Bin Obama of Al-White House.

After all it was this German Mosque branch of the Ummah that worked so hard to plan and bring about 9/11. Why would it be surprising if the Ummah would like to gift them with a new pad for their effort in furthering Jihad? After all the progressive liberals wouldnot stop their Islamic associates and party members or would they?

An ex-Muslim writes about a mosque, and what it is.

http://pedestrianinfidel.blogspot.com/2006/02/inside-forbidden-fortress.html

'Inside the forbidden fortress'.

'
Many out there in the blogosphere might not know what goes on inside the mosque, what the environment is like in such places and what do people do in there, apart from praying.



'Well, to start off, mosques were actually not just places of worship but also the places for Moslems to gather for any reason deemed necessary.

'Mosques are the place where Moslems used to gather not just to pray, but to listen to Mohammed (or another appropriately devout follower of Muhammed) harangue the faithful, prepare for battles/wars, and most importantly, to store weapons and captured booty.



'If in the event a Moslem-controlled settlement or town was ever assaulted by a non Moslem force, the mosque would be the location most important for the infidels to capture.

'The mosques of yesteryear (and this is still true to this day in many places) are literally strongholds, fortresses designed to resist attack.

'Whoever controls the mosque controls in fact the surrounding area-- something the coalition forces in Afghanistan and Iraq hopefully are already aware of.

'Thusly, mosques are typically a stoutly-built complex of rooms, which are used for housing any required jihadists to defend the structure, as well as any required supplies to resist/endure a siege. During less violent times, this space was given over to the local mullah, his wives, children, slaves and concubines, and other booty captured from the infidels in past battles.

'Today, in some places, mosques are not used for all these purposes.

'But in many parts of the world (namely the Middle East and other places in the Islamic world) the mosque still plays an important role.

'The mosque is not just a hall; it is ‘the Pentagon’ where Moslems plot and plan the ongoing jihad against the non Moslems.

'If it sounds strange and weird to non Moslems, it really is—you just have to step inside to feel it.



'Most mosques are surrounded by high fences and/or walls, which may be topped off with spikes or barbed wire. Not exactly welcoming, is it?

'Passing through the gates of a typical mosque, you first enter a courtyard which is used whenever the prayer hall of the mosque is occupied.

'Moslems have to pray, so they don’t mind standing outside to pray if need be.

'After all, if Moslems don’t pray, Allah isn’t happy and Moslems believe that one must always follow Allah, no matter how much pain and trouble that involves. The more suffering undertaken for Allah, the happier he is with you.



'When you enter the mosque's main hall (that’s the place you get to right after the courtyard, bathrooms, toilets and residential rooms are usually in the back or on the side) you see a lot of people in there. Some are standing, some are sitting, some are prostrating, some are bowing, a couple of people might be talking to each other (all this happens after they are done with the normal prayer procedures and the mullah isn’t leading anymore), but that’s not a normal practice.

'Being in a mosque gives me an odd feeling inside that’s tough to put into words.

'Every mosque I've been in (and that's a fair number) has a feeling of submission about it.

'By submission, I mean that everyone in this place has had their identity essentially destroyed by the straitjacket that is Islam.

'It is all quiet, but it isn't the peaceful sort of quiet. There is no peace—there is, rather, a palpable sense of fear.

'Even today, it seems people are afraid of Mohammed, like he might come back from hell and punish anyone that doesn't follow his teachings.

'Muslims in a mosque don’t dare do anything that would make him mad--they’re still bowing down to his will and command. Mo still has authority and power over all these people, and a hold over his minions that is difficult for non Moslems to understand.

...

'If you ever get the chance of hearing a mullah, do listen to him closely, if you can understand.

'You will surely hear words like ‘May Allah destroy the infidels and give their possessions to us’, especially on Fridays.

'I've heard such things many times in a mosque, more times than I can count.

'In some parts of the world that prayer is actually written on the front wall of the mosque.

'There used to be a custom when the mullah used to give the sermon with a sword in his hand.

'Many carry that tradition till this day, but some have toned it down by holding a cane instead of a sword. Cane or sword, it still symbolizes the absolute jihadist nature of Islam.



'The words ‘Islam is a religion of peace, harmony and tolerance’ immediately lose all meaning upon entering a mosque.

'In any mosque, there is no peace, there is no harmony and there is no tolerance for anything but Moslems and Islam.

'The Moslems whom you may have met an hour before and who said they are against the jihadis and what they’re doing, those very Moslems shout out loud, ‘death to infidels’ in their neighborhood mosques. Not just once or twice, but as a matter of course.

'The very Moslem who tells you, ‘you have a beautiful son, God bless him’ will go to the mosque and pray for the same ‘son’ to be killed so that the religion of his Allah can take over.

'Understanding what goes on inside the mosque, and what a mosque is all about, is critical to understanding what Islam is all about. It's just as important as understanding the Koran and Hadiths.

'The typical mosque has a power over Moslems that Osama Bin Laden or Zarqawi could never hope to have, that no mullah could ever have. A mosque is the house of Allah, a sacred place, where hope of victory for Moslems is always reborn.

'It gives them power, and the delusion that their twisted version of 'paradise', with all the virgins and palaces, is real and will be realized by all who fight the unbelievers.



'The mosque symbolizes the strength of Islam; the mosque is a physical and spiritual fortress that Moslems are sure no kuffir could ever conquer.'

Posted by Avenging Apostate at 2/25/2006 10:07:00 AM". 
 END.

And *that* is why it is so important for us non-Muslims, from now on, to resist the building of these advance military bases, these *fortresses* and war-bunkers of Islam, everywhere in our lands that Muslims try to do it; and why it is so important that every mosque within the West that is already known to have been associated with jihad terror plots whether projected or achieved, and with the active incitement of jihad, should be *shut. down* - and, preferably, razed to the ground.

A mosque is not a church.

It's a military base belonging to an aggressive geopolitical, supremacist cult that spurns the Golden Rule and practises de facto human sacrifice at every opportunity it gets.

Mosques have very often been used - in Muslim lands - as magazines and as bomb factories. And this makes them a distinct liability to anyone standing next to them.

Who wants to live next door to an arms dump or magazine? Who wants to live next door to a bomb factory run by inshallah-fatalistic amateurs?

Remember all that fascinating footage from when the Israelis delivered a drubbing to Jihad Fortress Gaza? 1. Israeli missile hits mosque from which jihadis are operating. 2. Missile explodes. 3, 4, 5, 6 - a string of massive secondary, tertiary and quaternary explosions as a string of ammo and H.E. dumps, stored in or next to said mosque, proceed to go up. 100 of the mosques in Gaza

No matter how much the Muslims here in the West may smile, and lie, and deny, there is no logical reason to assume that the Islam they practise here is any different from the Islam they practise over there; and there is, therefore, no reason to assume that any given mosque, right here in the West, does *not* have weapons, explosives, and other harmful items stashed inside, just as is done in dar al Islam.

I recall a report from Lebanon, not so long ago, relating how an imam's house had...blown up. Incorrectly stored explosives, apparently.

And from jihadwatch, February this year, the following bucolic scene from dar al Islam (be warned, Mr Spencer indulges his taste for satire in the headline). Scene: the friendly neighbourhood mosque, nice and handy to the market for cattle...and hashish. Inside: the imam/ jihad gang boss delivers a fiery sermon over the radio; and in the background the busy bomb-makers mess around with H.E. concocting 'suicide vests and roadside bombs'...aaah, such devotion! Such piety! Then - KABOOOM.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/islamophobes-kill-dozens-with-bomb-in-mosque----no-wait.html

"A Pakistani intelligence official in Peshawar said the militants were using the mosque as their headquarters and were busy in preparing suicide vests and roadside bombs.

"The blast happened when one of the vests exploded, he said, adding that the death toll was so high because the mosque is near a market for cattle and hashish...."

(At the time, a local Islamic 'preacher' was also giving a rabble-rousing 'sermon'...O dear...

"a local militant commander, Azam Khan, was killed in the explosion. Mr. Khan, who ran the local FM radio station, was delivering a sermon on the radio when the blast occurred.")

Another, similar episode, from June this year (again Mr Spencer has indulged his taste for satire when composing the headline).

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/15-radical-christians-killed-by-their-own-bombs-inside-church----no-wait.html

"Kabul -

"Eight Arab, five Pakistani and two Afghan militants were killed when bombs they were making exploded prematurely inside a mosque in eastern Afghanistan, the Interior Ministry said Sunday.

"The insurgents were assembling bombs in Desi Mosque of Yousifkhela district in the south-eastern province of Paktika on Friday, the ministry said...".. END.

Mosques are *not* the sort of thing you want next door.

Any more than you want a crack house, an outlaw bikers' den or...an unregistered factory for the making of heavy-duty explosive items.

The Nazi party was also, like Islam, a supremacist ideology. Were all Nazi's evil, or just the Nazi "extremists" who actually lived out the Nazi ideals and killed Jews and Christians and tried to conquer the world? Were the passive Nazis, who did not actually engage in enforcing the Nazi take over but supported the Nazi party financially or passively, also guilty? What about those who did nothing to stop the actions of Nazis? The reason it took a world war to put an end to Nazi ambition was because the behavior was tolerated, ignored, rationalized, misunderstood, enabled, and profited from. Have we learned nothing?