Pakistani president Zardari heckled by Muslims, including a shoe-thrower, on U.K. visit

Of course they are not heckling him for the reasons non-Muslims might heckle him. They are heckling him for his corruption, for his being one more crooked landowning zamindar, indifferent to the poor -- that is, practically everybody -- in Pakistan. They are heckling him for his fecklessness. They are heckling him for the inability of his government to organize to rescue people when natural disasters come. They may be heckling him for collaborating with the Americans -- that is, putting on such an act for the Americans, and that aid to which, no doubt, he also helps himself.

But they are not heckling him for being a Muslim or for behaving meretriciously toward the Americans. No, that's not wrong. That's what he does that is right.

Zardari told supporters his trip to Britain had been a success, and that he had raised tens of thousands of pounds for flood victims at home.

And how many tens of thousands of pounds did Pakistani taxpayers have to pay for this junket of yours and your entourage?

"resolved with the help of British Pakistani MPs"

I suppose he refers to the MPs of Pakistani origins, although they now are totally committed to Bristish secular democracy of course. Their loyalties are never in doubt.

Let´s hope that. Some Pakistanis who have popped up in Danish politics have left more than just one leg in Pakistan. They are anything from mere thugs and gangsters to whose who have joined middle of the road political parties while maintaining membership of islamist groups in Pakistan.

It´s come to the point I´m distrustful of those who haven´t been caught out.

The anti-western thinking in Pakistan is not confined to a minority of "extremists" or "islamists".

There's a thought provoking piece in the Observer newspaper this morning (Aug 8 2010) by Jason Burke.

Mr Cameron doesn't understand Pakistan. Sadly, he is not alone
We see the extremes, but ignore those in the middle and our blinkered thinking is not only stupid, but dangerous

......Break Multan, once a provincial town in arid southern Punjab, is now a city of around 1.5 million where new hotels, shops, offices and religious schools are multiplying with equal rapidity. At a university on its outskirts, I spoke to some of the 14,000 students who, like their counterparts anywhere, sat, books spread around them, on the grass amid the buildings. They were the sons and daughters of the rapidly expanding Pakistani middle class, studying in a middle-ranking college, in a middle-sized town, of mixed ethnic origin, close to the geographic centre of Pakistan and the point where the country's four provinces meet. If anyone was representative of what Pakistan, where the average age is 21, will be and will think in a decade, they were.

The conversations we had were deeply depressing. Their view of the west, coloured by conspiracy theories about the true perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks, antisemitism and anti-Zionism, a visceral anti-Americanism and a deep social conservatism, was overwhelmingly negative. The west's material conditions were undoubtedly attractive, many said, but there was no respect for women or the old and there was pornography, prostitution and Aids too. People should be able to choose whom they marry, they agreed, and women should work. But a balance none the less had to be kept.

Their patriotism was assertive and unabashed. "We are a proud and great country. We have nuclear weapons," said one. In Afghanistan and in Kashmir, Muslims were "as oppressed" as they were in Palestine, I was told. They all wanted "democracy" but said their politicians were corrupt and never helped the poor.

Though no one wanted clerics to rule, the laws of the country should however be in accordance with sharia. The students maintained a strict gender segregation. The girls were veiled. Many of the men were bearded. They were neither members of Jamaat-e-Islami, the big Islamist party, nor the ultra-westernised elite kids who party in Lahore or Karachi. They were "middle Pakistan".

...... All militaries reflect the views and culture of the society that produces them and the half-million strong Pakistani army is no exception. An increasing proportion of soldiers come from the "emerging urban centres" which the historian of the Pakistani army, Shuja Nawaz, has noted are "the traditional strongholds of the growing Islamist parties and conservatism associated with the petit bourgeoisie".

After talking on al-Qaida at the army's headquarters, I was told off by senior officers for repeating the "lies of the western establishment". The "miscreants" against whom their comrades were fighting on the Afghan frontier had been "led astray" by India, the CIA or "the Jews", one colonel said. "We are the army of the nation," said another. It is a statement that is more accurate than many in the west care to think. It also explains policies, such as sponsoring the Afghan Taliban, which bewilder many western observers. This is not to say other values or perceptions do not exist – they do – but just that the views of students in Multan were thus mainstream.

for the full article :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/08/jason-burke-pakistan-changes

Given the chance - with non interference from India in particular and America inshalla Pakistan shall survive these turblent times.

The rains and winds have not been kind to us - Bhutto's stupidity on insisting to travel by car with little care for her own security robbed us of a decent leader and now we got her husband - Zardari - which was Allah's wish.

He has done slightly better than I expected, and I am torn him being in the UK versus back with his people.

In Pakistan we know that it is the UK that has the really special realtionship with Pakistan; both sides know it.

America may provide us with monetary and weaponary aid, but after all we are helping to fight America's war on terror; but it is the UK that has Pakistan's ear.

I can understand why Zardari chose to do the trip, Cameron must be put right so that our special relationship can continue, Bilawal and Asfa were there with him; you see Pakistan's future leaders in the hands of Adults tutored by teachers of the UK.

America will stop giving money when they are bankrupt - we all know that - but UK - UK will stop at nothing naturing our folks - they are the ones we truly love.

Even the boot - it was thrown by a British Pakistani to the president out of Love.

Of course, all this is reported, by most of MSM, as though Britain is simply the venue for Pakistan's politics.

Muslims who are supporters of different factions of Pakistan's political parties in Birmingham, England, (Muslims who are nominally British citizens), are playing out their emotions around events in what they regard as their real 'homeland': Pakistan, and 'the Muslim world'. Although the location for such political theatre is in British cities, Britain is not really a participant to these Muslims who appear only to put the interest of the Ummah, of Islam, and of Pakistan - not the interests of Britain.

Such has been the scale of mass immigration from Pakistan to Britain over several decades (and it is continuing) that media organisations such as the BBC see it as normal to give considerable coverage to the politics of Pakistan, as played out in some Muslim areas of Britain; such politics is covered not from a British viewpoint but from that of Pakistan's political in-fighting,with shoe-throwing regarded as normal. It is another aspect of the Islamisation of Europe.

There is a similar political phenomenon in Germany, where many Turkish Muslim immigrants, politically orchestrated by Erdogan's visits there, avoid social 'integration' but give their allegiances to Islam and Turkey, and not to Germany:

"Erdogan urges German Turks not to integrate"

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20100317-25933.html

If the media report this correctly people will have to start seeing the double standard that is going on, in favor of the very party that is slowly building against the weirdo apologist left/right middle wingers, and the rest if us as well.

I can think of few things more sad in the history of mankind than when entire peoples, entire civilizations, surrender completely to an invader and become the invader, accepting his right to invade and conquer them until they deny their own past and culture. In their eagerness they then see nothing higher than doing the same to others.

Pakistan is the most horrific example of this, unwilling to remember their ancestors being deliberately killed or enslaved in numbers that only the Mongols or modern mechanized extermination could equal.

Leave Pakistan to its own devices, making an exception only for its nuclear ones. Those must be vigilantly monitored, and the ability to deliver them, whether to a terrorist group (there are so many in Pakistan, and many of those who are not part of those groups share the same world-view) for its own delectation and possible use, or, in a different sense, to the lands of the Infidels.

Roland sez:

"Even the boot - it was thrown by a British Pakistani to the president out of Love."

Bwahahaahhahahaha...and the one thrown at President Bush wasn't......?...

When Muslims are throwing stones at a half buried are they showing Islamic love?

When Muslims are are throwing stones at Christians in the neighborhood are they showing Islamic love?

When Muslims are throwing molotov cocktails through the windows of the homes of other Muslims who are accused of illecit affairs are they showing their Islamic love?

When Muslims are throwing hand grenades at other Muslims on an Islamic pilgrimage are they showing their Islamic love?

When Muslims are throwing spears and arrows at Native Africans who are coming to rescue their kidnapped daughters are they showing their Islamic love?.

When Muslims are throwing stones at children flying kites in Pakistan and Afghanistan are they showing their Islamic love?

When Muslims are throwing stones and molotov coctails at Christian or Non Muslim homes because their Muslim daughters choose to love someone outside their Muslim religion are they showing their Islamic love?

Muslim love causes Muslims to throw things...bwahahahahahahahaha....

Islam....feel the love....

Methinks Muslims need to be dis-armed in-toto. They've been trying to throw shit at the moon for 1350 years and still haven't hit it.

Roland

TWADDLE!!!

The UK doesn't have Pakistans ear. Thats politics. It is nothing to do with he people. We have not forgotten or forgiven 7/7 - Pakistanis and a Jamaican convert. The attacks on us, the claims of owning my country, the rapes (now including males) the perverted gangs grooming underage girls. Your utter contempt for us while too many are living off us.
Your obsession with India is unfounded in the light of Mumbai, that is not going to be forgiven, the savage killing of so many innocents, esp. the Rabbi and his family which beggers belief.
You are deluding yourself, Pakistan is a country almost totally corroded by corruption, inefficiency, ignorance,and an emotional instability verging on mania. Enjoy your delusion while you can.

As regards the floods in Pakistan.

Inshallah fatalism, the diversion (as happens in all Muslim despotisms) of most or all monies worth mentioning into the private luxe of the wealthy elite and/ or into the vandalistic and expensive promulgation of Jihad both local - against India - and global, - against practically anywhere else- leaving neither finance nor inclination for the maintenance of such trivial, unimportant things as river barrages, bridges, roads, drains, water supply and purification systems, etc., together with continuous deforestation and land degradation (the result of fatalism and ignorance and greed), combined with once-in-a-century La Nina rains, and presto! - devastating floods.

The people in the flood zones of Pakistan for whom I do feel real pity are the non-Muslim minorities, the Christians, Hindus and Sikhs, for they will be ruthlessly kicked aside, right off the end of the queue, when such relief arrives as does arrive (does anyone see the fleet of planes full of food and blankets and bottled water flying in to Pakistan, yet, from the obscenely wealthy Muslim sheikdoms of the Gulf? No? From oil-rich Iran? No? How strange. Does anyone think that such aid will be forthcoming? Or if it does, that it will exceed or even match what Pakistan - greedy, whining, despotic, chaotic, jihad-pushing Pakistan - will most likely receive from the very kafir whom it despises and plots ceaselessly to kill?).

Dawn.com reports --- The number of people suffering from the massive floods in Pakistan could exceed the combined total in three recent megadisasters - the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, the 2005 Kashmir earthquake and the 2010 Haiti earthquake - the United Nations said Monday.

Unbelievable.