Now this is rich. Here's our old friend Raymond Ibrahim at Pajamas Media (via RaymondIbrahim.com), August 19, with a new twist on the Islamic supremacist mega-mosque at Ground Zero:
In a recent article, I argued that the Ground Zero mosque is counterproductive to Islam. The following day, on August 5th, the Egyptian newspaper Al Masry Al Youm reported that none other than Al Azhar -- one of Sunni Islam's most authoritative institutions -- agrees. My translation of the relevant excerpt follows:A number of Al Azhar ulema expressed their opposition to building a mosque near [where] the events of September 11 [occurred], convinced that it is "a conspiracy to confirm a clear connection between the strikes of September [11] and Islam." Dr. 'Abd al-Mu'ti Bayumi, a member of the Islamic Research Academy [of Al Azhar] told Al Masry Al Youm that he rejects the building of any mosque in this area [Ground Zero], because the "devious mentality" desires to connect these events [of 9/11] with Islam, though he maintains that Islam is innocent of this accusation. Instead, it is a "Zionist conspiracy," which many are making use of to harm the religion. Likewise, Dr. Amna Nazir, professor of doctrine and philosophy at Al Azhar, expressed her rejection that a mosque be built near the World Trade Center, saying: "Building a mosque on this rubble indicates bad intention -- even if we wished to shut our eyes, close our minds, and insist on good will. I hope it is a sincere step, and not a new conspiracy against Islam and Muslims."
Aside from the hackneyed "Zionist conspiracy" charge, Al Azhar has it right: from negative media attention to subliminal associations with the 9/11 strikes, the "9/11 mosque" has great potential to backfire on Islam. Many other Muslims agree. That Al Azhar has labeled it a "Zionist conspiracy"-- an appellation usually reserved for especially heinous charges attributed to fellow Muslims, such as the strikes of 9/11 -- is indicative of how absurd the mosque project must appear to them.
Lest Al Azhar be accused of feigning disapproval, bear in mind that its reaction is not a product of sensitivity to, or the desire to peacefully coexist with, the United States (which would be suspect). Indeed, Dr. Bayumi is an open advocate of suicidal jihad: "I say in all honesty that we recruit the people of Islam, and instill in them the spirit of the true Jihad, which is death for the sake of Allah, for the sake of our faith, and of the Al-Aqsa Mosque."
Now, here's the question: if Al Azhar scholars are fully aware of how detrimental the erection of a 9/11 mosque can be, why are American Muslims (such as of the Cordoba Initiative) still relentlessly pursuing it?...
Good question. Read it all.
I think this reflects an internal division within Islam which occasionally bubbles to the forefront. While the Umma's goal is the same-to destroy western civilization and subjugate the world under Islamic rule, how that goal is achieved depends on which muslim camp you're in.
The "radical" Al Qaeda variety believe in direct jihad/warfare. People like Ibrahim prefer a more subtle less visible approach and I'd say muslims like Rauf fall somewhere in the middle who believe it can be advanced through aggressive but peaceful means.
Rauf thinks the momentum is on their side having a president and administration that is supine, pliant and complicit with their agenda, so he thinks by throwing out the typical liberal bromides (like community harmony and bridge-building) he can subdue the 'stupid' masses who don't see what they're really up to.
This is why he brashly and obnoxiously called it the 'Cordoba Initiative' (harkening to the Islamic conquest of Spain and conversion of a church to a mosque) and insultingly set the opening date on 9/11, not just to wrest away and muddy the meaning of that terrorist attack from us 'infidels', but also to figuratively laugh in our faces. I doubt Rauf was prepared for the enormous attention and negative backlash the Ground Zero Mosque received.
Bottom line here is that America and everything it stands for is in a fight for its survival. We effectively have a pro-muslim president in power, Al Qaeda could only dream of having as great an influence to impose Islam on us as Obama has. This would be like the Russians or Nazis having one of their sleeper spies become our president during WW2 or the Cold War.
I'm hopeful that the coming mid-term elections will greatly blunt Obama's ability to cause more damage until he can be either impeached or voted out in 2012 and hopefully the next president will be a much wiser pick who won't bow to Islam and its jihadist hordes and stand up boldly for freedom and democratic values.
I see the beginnings of a global war on the horizon, with large muslim populations in Europe starting their intifadas and agitating for power. We're also completely ignoring the already low-level jihad taking place in some African countries, Thailand and many other nations. Point being that America is the only country that can lead the world and help win these conflicts. So it is crucial that the country elects the right leadership which can mobilize the nation to fight and win WW3.
It would be good strategy for Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer (as well as anyone else interviewed on TV about this Jihad Mosque) to press this point - that the 9/11 mosque will forever be a reminder of the most savage attack by Islam on America - and keep the psychological pressure ratcheted up as a high as possible against Rauf and Daisy Chain!
I = insensitive
S = subversive
L = ludicrous
A = anachronistic
M = mendacious
It is certainly possibly, and even plausible, that Feisal Abdul Rauf will think better of pursuing this particular mosque, at this particular time -- after all, there are 2000 mosques in America already, and at least 6000 in Western Europe, all but a handful built within the last several decades, while in the Arab and Muslim lands -- Indonesia, Pakistan, Iraq, Egypt, Algeria, Libya hundreds or thousands of churches and synagogues have been destroyed or turned into mosques. And in all that time when nearly ten thousand mosques were being built in the West, now accused of "religious intolerance" by the likes of Bloomberg ("so bland, so stupid, and so rich" as Auden might have put it) and his oily and ingratiating friend Feisal Abdul Rauf, pnly two Christian structures, meeting houses without identifying marks on the outside (so as not to "offend" Muslims) have been built, one in Qatar, and one in Bahrain.
Talk about reciprocity. Talk about "understanding the Other."
Shouldn't the feisal-abdul-raufs, and daisy-raufs, of this world be told, but very sweetly, to cut the crap?
The Washington Times had a story on the reaction to the GZ mosque in the Middle East. The muslims quoted there mentioned some of the same conspiracy theories and noted the dangers this mosque posed to islam.I also visited one Arab website that had an article about this mosque and the few commenters there said it would be bad for muslims if this mosque went forward. This was primarily because of the negative attention this mosque is bringing to islam. Even a few American muslims are beginning to get the picture.
Those crafty Juice! First they false flag the towers and now this.
nabi ZK (pbum)
If the Zionists are so cunning surely they will put it about that something is a Zionist proposal when they want the Umma to do the opposite. Have the Ulema thought of that eh?
Let's keep them in a state of incapacitating paranoia...
Is Imam Rauf aware that he is furthering a zionist plot? Is President Obama aware of this? What will Obama say when he learns those behind the plan to build the mosque seek only to tarnish the 'good name' of Islam?
You can't make this stuff up.
Top Muslims Condemn Ground Zero Mosque as a 'Zionist Conspiracy'
I think that makes it official: there are now more "Zionist conspiracies" than there are Zionists.
Since Muslims like to claim that sharia is a derivative of Old Testament law, and since so much of the Koran is based on the Bible, perhaps it's time to expose Islam itself as a Zionist plot.
Maybe that will shake the sheikhs loose of this pathology. :)
Electing Prez Obama was a Zionist plot. Repeating and fostering old and new apologist's lies, only to have them discovered and brought out into the light, is hurting Islam. Obama and Rauf secretly roll about in a sea of shekels at night, each promised a splendid villa in Palestine for their efforts. Those crafty money changers have become opinion changers...
Dr. 'Abd al-Mu'ti Bayumi, a member of the Islamic Research Academy [of Al Azhar] told Al Masry Al Youm that he rejects the building of any mosque in this area [Ground Zero], because the "devious mentality" desires to connect these events [of 9/11] with Islam, though he maintains that Islam is innocent of this accusation.
The first time I heard the term Islamic Scholar I laughed. I ain't laughing anymore. Especially since our born Moslem Prez Barack Hussein Obama gave his awful fantastic speech praising Islamic science and great civilizations at ol' Al Azhar U, which is a joke unto itself.
Those Egyptian Muslims are always on the ball, always the first to figure things out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To4AM7yyGqM
It has long been my belief that all Muslim assholes are really disguised Mossad agents just trying to destroy Islam.
Fitna, good post.
One point, though:
The "radical" Al Qaeda variety believe in direct jihad/warfare. People like Ibrahim prefer a more subtle less visible approach...
...................
As a general statement, this is very true. However, Raymond Ibrahim is *not* an advocate of Shari'ah or Islamic supremacy—just the opposite.
He has served on the Jihad Watch board and written many excellent articles, including this one.
For those who came in late...
Raymond Ibrahim was born in America to Coptic Christians, ex-dhimmis, who had escaped to freedom out of Islamic Egypt.
Because of his upbringing, he has a fluent command of Egyptian Arabic, which comes in awfully handy at times - as when he sat down to translate Al Qaeda's Arabic-language communiques. Result: 'The Al-Qaeda Reader' which exposed the glaring dichotomy between what Al-Qaeda said in English for Infidel consumption (grievance-talk intended to press guilt buttons and cause confusion) and what was said in Arabic (straight down-the-line Quran-Sira-Hadith-inspired incitement to Jihad).
An otherwise intelligent moron...yeah I know...suggested to me that Israel may have been responsible for the sinking of the South Korean warship since it was a German made torpedo that was found...blah...blah...blah...distract from the flotilla fiasco...blah...
I sat there with my jaw hangin' for a while 'til I started crackin' up.
Some peoples children! Jeez...
No islam...Know Peace.
Know islam...Throw Up!
fitna,
You wrote:
"People like Ibrahim prefer a more subtle less visible approach and I'd say muslims like Rauf fall somewhere in the middle who believe it can be advanced through aggressive but peaceful means."
Making a false allegation of this magnitude against Raymond Ibrahim certainly requires a retraction and correction from you.
All that I can see is the die hard virulent hatred of thisisnotislamists & thisisislamists towards Jews and Israel.
Somehow or other this Raymond Ibrahim wants to deflect world's focus on Islam. And whip up more anger towards Jews. Islam's very survival and existence depends on this.
Be it Raymond Ibrahim , Al qaeda , Taliban , SIMI , Lashkar e taiba , Jammu&Kashmir Liberation Front(JKLF) they are all the SAME. The smooth talking suave are as dangerous as the militant variety.
" glaring dichotomy between what Al-Qaeda said in English for Infidel consumption (grievance-talk intended to press guilt buttons and cause confusion) and what was said in Arabic (straight down-the-line Quran-Sira-Hadith-inspired incitement to Jihad)".
Exactly.
Musharraf also did the same.Hence rightly called "meretricious" by Hugh Fitzgerald.
Subsequently that word "meretricious" has been frquently used by Indian bloggers too;))
Crows&Cows,
You might want to invest a few minutes of your time to find out who Raymond Ibrahim is, before you make such astoundingly ludicrous false accusations.
Kinana of Khaybar ,
Extremely sorry. The word Ibrahim brought to my mind that Ibrahim Cooper of CAIR. Apologies. Sorry for the mixup.
And in Pakistan non-muslim volunteers are risking their lives to provide emergency aid to - Muslims, victims of the flood. It just doesn't add up. Wondering why the 9/11 official reports did not debunk the islamic terrorist theory?
Wouldn't it be very interesting to see the Arab Muslims and the Imam Rauf "debate" the issue for both Western and Arab audience.
Kinana of Khaybar wrote, responding to Fitna:
fitna,
You wrote:
"People like Ibrahim prefer a more subtle less visible approach and I'd say muslims like Rauf fall somewhere in the middle who believe it can be advanced through aggressive but peaceful means."
Making a false allegation of this magnitude against Raymond Ibrahim certainly requires a retraction and correction from you.
..................
Kinana, I cannot presume to speak for Fitna, but if you look back through his long history of posts here at JW, *he is one of the good guys*
My guess is that, like poster Crows&Cows, he gave the article above a too-quick scan and assumed it was Raymond Ibrahim who was making the grotesque "Zionists" claim, rather than critiquing and reporting on it.
I've done hasty reads myself at times in the past, with all-too similar results.
Thanks a lot gravenimage ! As you state:-
"...gave the article above a too-quick scan and assumed it was Raymond Ibrahim who was making the grotesque "Zionists" claim, rather than critiquing and reporting on it " is precisely the truth.
I thought it was CAIR's Ibrahim Cooper the name Raymond making no impact. As I am indescribably weary of hearing this phrase " Zionist conspiracy " ( you can add racism , racist also to that list) by the malicious. That morning's newspaper also carried an article from a supposedly mild thisisnotislamist calling the Jews " arrogant Zionists". Being an emotional person I was angry.
Even when I google searched Raymond Ibrahim I was expecting Ibrahim Cooper's face to pop up.
It took me sometime to come to my senses.And reread the article.
However I am very grateful to Kinana of Khaybar for instantly correcting me.
Crows&Cows,
Sorry my response was harsh. I do recall reading an informative post of yours a while back so I was surprised that you and fitna made the same mistake here in misidentifying Raymond Ibrahim. Anyways, the positive aspect is you are now introduced to his work; I highly recommend checking it out at the link posted above by Robert, if you have not done so already.
Kinana of Khaybar,
Not at all.Thank God you corrected me. I am still feeling bad for being so stupidly hasty.