I lost any respect I had had for Tarek Fatah when he savaged the great freedom fighter Wafa Sultan, but he is largely on the right side with this one, at least in characterizing the Islamic supremacist mega-mosque at Ground Zero as a provocation (the article is otherwise full of tendentious falsehoods about the Qur'an and other matters, which I have not reproduced here): "Mischief in Manhattan: We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation," by Raheel Raza and Tarek Fatah in the Ottawa Citizen, August 7 (thanks to Don):
[...] When we try to understand the reasoning behind building a mosque at the epicentre of the worst-ever attack on the U.S., we wonder why its proponents don't build a monument to those who died in the attack?New York currently boasts at least 30 mosques [Daisy Khan said over 100] so it's not as if there is pressing need to find space for worshippers. The fact we Muslims know the idea behind the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation to thumb our noses at the infidel....
So what gives Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the "Cordoba Initiative" and his cohorts the misplaced idea that they will increase tolerance for Muslims by brazenly displaying their own intolerance in this case?...
There are many questions that we would like to ask. Questions about where the funding is coming from? If this mosque is being funded by Saudi sources, then it is an even bigger slap in the face of Americans, as nine of the jihadis in the Twin Tower calamity were Saudis.
If Rauf is serious about building bridges, then he could have dedicated space in this so-called community centre to a church and synagogue, but he did not. We passed on this message to him through a mutual Saudi friend, but received no answer. He could have proposed a memorial to the 9/11 dead with a denouncement of the doctrine of armed jihad, but he chose not to....
Let's not forget that a mosque is an exclusive place of worship for Muslims and not an inviting community centre. Most Americans are wary of mosques due to the hard core rhetoric that is used in pulpits. And rightly so. As Muslims we are dismayed that our co-religionists have such little consideration for their fellow citizens and wish to rub salt in their wounds and pretend they are applying a balm to sooth the pain....
As for those teary-eyed, bleeding-heart liberals such as New York mayor Michael Bloomberg and much of the media, who are blind to the Islamist agenda in North America, we understand their goodwill.
Unfortunately for us, their stand is based on ignorance and guilt, and they will never in their lives have to face the tyranny of Islamism that targets, kills and maims Muslims worldwide, and is using liberalism itself to destroy liberal secular democratic societies from within.
Ah Tarek Fatah, the moderate Muslim that holds the Islamic tiger by the tail, with no clue on how to declaw and defang it.
Tarek Fatah is the guy of Pakistani origin, who referred to Aisha as "9 year old WOMAN" !! and said that he "thought", without providing any evidence, that she was actually 17 years old when Mohammed married her.
The guy bears watching since he has admitted the truth in this particular case. Is it a ruse (we have seen that in Muslim apologists in India) or a genuine acceptance of reality.
Sanjay
I am not an islamaphobe nor a racist. I believe that with a growing number of muslims in this country they should be able to build mosques and madrassas to support their population. That is only fitting to the Constitution of these United States.
However,
with the case of the Ground Zero mosque, that is not the place to erect a monument in the guise of religious understanding and multi-culteralism. There are other sites to build a mosque that would be appropriate and there are also other dates to open a mosque. Come on, any middle-school child could see that 9/11/2011 is meant as an insult. When a dog sh*ts an the house and you rub its nose in it, its not because you want the dog to feel happy.
The biggest problem here is the date and location. Our policy makers are so blinded by being PC, power and most likely funding that the imam and group associated with this GZM cant see the obvious signs; Cordoba House, 9/11/2011 , Ground Zero just to name a few.
So why do we Americans (and other people of the world) who are offended by islam, have to have this rubbed in our noses.
Yes, they're always looking, looking for ways to revise upwards, since the normal sensibility is to put the center past the onset of puberty as marriage material.
They know how reprehensible is sounds, but instead of stating that it isn't right, that it was just a time in history, and boy, wasn't that prophet somethin', no, instead it's best to figure out how they can get the girl-child to like it.
Never, ever, a critical word for the Qur'an. What is Tareq Fatah doing to criticize the Qur'an?
Thanks, Captain Obvious, for your input. A letter? That's your contribution to freedom?
I'll bet is was an oh-so-friendly-and-boy-wouldncha-mind-just-this-once-because-I-know-it-goes-against-every-Muslim-fiber-of-our-beings-but-please-just-build-your-building-somewhere-else-because-we-can't-continue-our-stealth-jihad-with-you-flaunting-your-money-and-shari'a-in-Dar-al-Harb-so-pretty-please-turn-the-volume-down kind of letter.
Imam Rauf -- Bad Cop
Tarek Fatah -- Good Cop.
With Fatah opposing the Ground Zero Mosque, how many gullible non-Muslims out there will be hoodwinked into accepting (or continuing to accept) mosques throughout the West? As long as a mosque isn't at Ground Zero, then it's ok, eh? I mean, even Robert Spencer said so!
"...opponents of the mosque, be they SIOA, or Palin, or Giuliani, or Gingrich, or anyone else, are not talking about banning mosques altogether. I do believe that mosques connected with the Saudis and/or the Muslim Brotherhood warrant careful scrutiny from law enforcement, but no one who is in the front line of the opposition to the mega-mosque at Ground Zero is calling for all mosques to be closed or for a ban on the construction of new mosques."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/08/landmarks-commission-greenlights-islamic-supremacist-mega-mosque-at-ground-zero.html
I, too, come from the Muslim culture and I fully agree.
But it is also TESTING: TESTING of the Americans for the degree of cowardice and stupidity. TESTING by the Global Jihad who is relentless, to see how far can they advance in this country. Tried and proven TESTING taken out of Arafat's playbook:
Arafat's TESTING:
March 3, 1973: Acting on Arafat's direct orders, Palestinian terrorists execute the US Ambassador Cleo Noel and his Charge d'Affairs George Moore, as well as the Belgian Charge d'Affairs Guy Eid, whom they held in Khartoum for more than 2 days. Initially, there were some expressions of "outrage" in Washington DC, but Arafat knew exactly what he was doing, for he figured out our cowardly elites well. Just as he expected, our entire State Dept. had lapsed into total Stockholm Syndrome pathology, abjectly turning to him for "protection" services, and thus subserviently putting itself under the PLO "protection" racket. As author George Jonas put it: "an ambassador kissing the hand that shot another". How did they pay PLO for the "protection services" for every US diplomat traveling in the Middle East? By selling Israel down the river, of course. Israel was the only country in the world who responded to Khartoum valiantly, with a daring raid into Beirut, blowing up a Palestinian terrorist headquarters there and assassinating a number of high-ranking Palestinian terrorists in their residences elsewhere in the city. And what do our cowardly diplomats do? Together with the CIA sociopaths, who were even worse, they leapt into action sabotaging Israel's other assassination plots, repeatedly saving Arafat himself, and betraying Israeli agents, some of whom suffered tragic deaths as a result of that treason. The Europeans were even worse, as Bat Ye'Or describes in her great book Eurabia. Suddenly, a total orgy of treason, mutual treason, cross-treason and even self-treason had erupted throughout Europe and the US, with the European governments secretly aiding Muslim terrorists in murdering Americans, and all of them together betraying Israel. As Golda Meir remarked in disgust: "We are the only ones fighting terrorists, the rest are helping them". Instead of 30 pieces of silver, the Western democracies got more terrorism, more plane hijackings, more bombings, more murders, and then the Iranian hostage crisis, Khomeini publicly toilet-dunking the United States of America for 444 days, as the entire world watched in disbelief. Depressed with the cruel public humiliation of their country on Carter's watch, the Americans turned to Reagan to stand up for their country. But Reagan had proved even worse. I remember that Dummy-in-Chief and his camarilla, and all those cowardly generals and admirals in command of the US military all giving themselves in into the dhimmi pathology and bashing Israel for yet another valiant battle agaist jihad, this time not only in Beirut, but throughout Lebanon. The Dummy, his strings being jerked by the CIA's God-accursed Robert Anderson, an ultimate American sociopath James A. Baker III, coward Weinberger and other repugnations of the human race, had ruined Israel's already achieved victory by sending the US Marines to expell Israel from Beirut, to let the terrorists back in, and to be blown up by the very terrorists they let in. There's a straight line running from Beirut, 10/23/83 to NYC, 9/11/01.
Robert, Hugh, Marisol and other JW folks:
Please invite Rudy Giuliani and Paul Sperry to your 9/11 rally & tell them about my idea that they launch a new Center Party. We need a taqyya-proof ticket at the next election!
Ruslan.
No more mosques. No more burqas. No more Islam.
Ban the Accursed Book (video)
"So long as there is this book there will be no peace in the world."
William Ewart Gladstone (1809–1898)
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/05/accursed-book-le-livre-maudit.html
I am beginning to understand.
This is sorta like a big chess game.
Just when it appears that Tarek is clearly on the right side, it may be that he is just "casteling" or sacrificing his Rook to later capture the Queen..
That's dirty pool
Hesp, all over America "good" religious houses thrive and are left alone, and the bad ones garner all kinds of attention, leading to arrests and bankruptcy and dissolution.
It is happening slowly but surely to that weird non-Mormon Latter Day group whose head Mohammed wannabe, Jeffs, is arrested and tried, and the children at taken, but returned and awareness is there...keeping more gullible women from joining. Is it overnight? No. Is it happening? Yes.
Racism was sanctioned in Mormonism at one time. Through shame and reform, it is no longer dogmatic.
The Koolaid drinkers? Self-destructed.
The same will happen to Scientology because information can't be stopped, no matter how many lawyers and "day camp" prisons they have. Is it overnight? Again, no.
Nothing would please use more than to see mosques go the way of the dodo. Wouldn't it be nice if all the nominal Muslims just said, you know, I'm just going to be a Baptist and forget this Islam thing, you can just knock that masjid down. It isn't going to happen. What can happen, though, is for the money jihad to be stopped.
When masjids can no longer support themselves as palatial Moslem-scat markers on the face of our nation, and, like the mosque in midtown Manhattan (a different one), through lack of payment its tenancy ends, and its population is forced to pray in a square cement hole, it becomes less and less attractive to the C&E (to coin a phrase) Muslims. Their kids will beg off, don't want to go, Dad, and the coffers will empty.
The money must be stopped at the border. Want to solve trade deficits at the same time and slow foreign ownership of American land? Put tariffs/surcharges/tax, I don't know the word, on money sent into the country. Any religious house accepting tax-exempt status must show all its funds are domestically raised. Contributions over a certain dollar amount require paperwork, just like at the banks. Mosques found accepting money from countries where shari'a is implemented (including U.K.) will be fined and lose their tax-exempt status.
Just like Catholics and others follow the Nicean Creed, it should be made known that self-identifying as a Muslims means not believing that U.S. and state law takes precedence over Muslim rights of inheritance, manmade laws take precedence over shari'a, etc. As a tautology.
Believing shari'a law supersedes U.S. law is grounds for sedition. Enforced.
My lengthy, rambling point is that the bad ideas in the U.S. fail due to pressure and the application of law. Muslims in America should remain fringe oddities: oppressing their women, suspect as medical personnel and other positions of care of kuffir, and their concerns ignored under the auspices of their self-definition/creed.
Besides, mosques give us a place to bug and infiltrate.
I agree with you much of the time. I believe in your ultimatum sense of the clash of civilizations. It will happen. But maybe getting rid of the foreign influence, just like all immigrant populations to the U.S., will eventually decimate the believing population, and render them irrelevant.
Also, absolutely no visas whatever back to the mother country for Muslims. Period. Forced and arranged marriages, hawala, you name it. You could do it under any premise whatever. Once you're here...you stay here.
And no more student visas. What the holy hell for? Let them build their own universities. What a waste of civilization.
"We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation"
We non-Muslims know it, too!
I = insolent
S = sadistic
L = lacking principles
A = amoral
M = mendacious
The proposed mosque is not only a "deliberate provocation" but more importantly a symbol of Islamic conquest. Cordoba was the capital of the Islamic empire in Spain. It was the place where Islam established its first caliphate in Europe, and the Grand Cordoba Mosque was built where a Visigoth Christian church stood. The supporters of the project ignore the simple undeniable fact that the Imam Faisel Rauf is a champion of the same jihadist Islam as described in the 2007 NYPD 90 page report: Radicalization in the West - The Homegrown Threat" at their peril. Either soft jihadists like Faisel Rauf, or violent jihadists, they share the same ideology. We must never forget that Islam is not just religion, but is political ideology that defines every aspect of one's life, including that of the non-believers.
Well I think this is a very important development is it not ?
Whatever we may think about Tarek Fatah, it sounds as if he is some sort of player on the Muslim scene in Canada and for him to come out and say this will certainly put the cat among the Dhimmi chickens - it will have them clucking like the McDonald's van just pulled up outside...
Can it be that "moderate" Muslims are beginning to wake up and realize what will happen to their sanctuary of freedom if their "devout" brethren take over? And that their "devout" brethren do indeed intend to take over, and this mosque is Exhibit A?
"Believing shari'a law supersedes U.S. law is grounds for sedition. Enforced."
Wow, so in your country one is guilty of a crime for one's political beliefs alone? That sounds as horrible as a "Muslim hellhole."
In my hellhole, no one has ever been labeled seditious for their political belief.
"Believing shari'a law supersedes U.S. law is grounds for sedition. Enforced."
Wow, so in your country one is guilty of a crime for one's political beliefs alone? That sounds as horrible as a "Muslim hellhole."
In my hellhole, no one has ever been labeled seditious for their political belief."
--------
Well Yusef, one thing's for sure: No one is can accuse you of being the brightest bulb in the box.
BTW, your kitman is showing, better take a moment to readjust it.
You miss the plot as long as the Quran stands in it's present form and violent texts are not removed. The Mosques and Madrasas will continue to misunderstand these verses. Every apostate of Islam will tell you...removal of these verses and roughly a generation away, will Democratic countries begin to see light at the end of the tunnel on this radicalization issue of Islam. But Robert's book.
The infidel frog is being slowly boiled by Islamic infiltration.
Oppose Islam or perish.
Hahahaha! Yusef YK has admitted that islam is "a political belief alone".
Yusef is NOT smarter than a 5th grader!
"Muslims know the idea behind the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation to thumb our noses at the infidel...."
No shit Sherlock, so do we.
As of now it is only a thumbing of the nose. How long until it becomes a finger in the eye? (If it is not already)
Hesperado wrote:
Imam Rauf -- Bad Cop
Tarek Fatah -- Good Cop.
With Fatah opposing the Ground Zero Mosque, how many gullible non-Muslims out there will be hoodwinked into accepting (or continuing to accept) mosques throughout the West? As long as a mosque isn't at Ground Zero, then it's ok, eh?
.................
I tend to agree, Hesperado. If the obscene Ground Zero mosque is built, it is a huge victory for Muslim supremacism.
But even if it is successfully blocked, the conversation has nonetheless shifted. Blocking any future mosque—no matter what site it occupies, where its funding comes from, or who its Imam is, will likely be more difficult.
Of course, I may be wrong—after fighting one mosque, Americans may feel empowered to fight other proposals. I am not optimistic that this is how it will play out, though.
Nonetheless, the proposed Ground Zero mosque needs to be fought hard. The victory for Islam if that perverse structure is allowed to go up is almost incalculable.
It will be seen as a victory for Islam over America—indeed, over all the West and all of Dar-al-Harb. It would embolden Islam more than almost any other possible victory at this point.
In a war you can only fight the battles of the present.
Clearly, the gauntlet having been thrown down, everything possible has to be done to prevent this Insult Monument being built at Ground Zero.
The battle has to be fought.
As to other battle fronts, my feeling is that it would not be at all unreasonable for democratic states to say to the Muslim world "No mosque can be constructed here until Jews, Christians and Hindus are free to build places of worship throughout the Muslim world." That seems a perfectly reasonable position to take.
It is not saying Muslims cannot worship, only that they cannot create dedicated structures in the Islamic tradition. Against that, remember that in our so called ally country Saudi, Christians and Jews are not even allowed to worship - let alone building religious structures.
Sorry, OT but CAIR is smearing Robert again but this time Jesse Jackson et al are leading the charge.
They've written a letter to FBI Director Robert Mueller
If you'd like to read the article or play their game & write letters to Mr. Mueller you can check out the article at:
http://thesop.org/story/usa/2010/08/06/jesse-jackson-icna-endorse-letter-on-antiislam.php
FBI contact info (I'm sure someone else can improve upon this)
http://www.fbi.gov/contactus.htm
Nobody could disagree with views expressed here. Thanks to the constant and excellent information put out by Robert Spencer and his associates, people all over the world, not just Americans are seeing things for what they are.
Strange as it may seem, the British are also waking up. Excellent blogs like Andrew Gilligan's on the Daily Telegraph are becoming increasingly popular, also the British press are highlighting more and more examples of Islamic elitism and promotion of race hate by groups like Hizb ut Tahrir. People are becoming more empowered - shrieks of "racism" and "Islamophobia" don't matter. At last. Now, the sixty thousand dollar question - what to DO? We'd better not take too long to decide..... seems to me the Islamists have gone in another direction - using our own useful idiots against us.
Buraq:
I = insolent
S = sadistic
L = lacking principles
A = amoral
M = mendacious
Excellent - hope you don't mind if I use it.
The most effective arguments for building the ground zero supremacist mega mosque the Muslims and their Leftist allies are using is the religious freedom argument and the argument that if Muslims can’t build mosques, then Christians and Jews will not be able to build churches and synagogues too.
However, everyone against the building of the ground zero supremacist mega mosque are missing a really great opportunity to expose what Islam really is when they fail to challenge those religious freedom arguments head on, since Islam besides being a religion, is also a very radical form of totalitarianism that seeks world domination. Hence, you can’t dissect Islam and take only a tiny part of it, while at the same time you ignore the greatest part of it to circumvent the constitution. You must take Islam in totality for what it really is, a totalitarian theo-political ideology with the main goal and sole purpose of subjugating the world via the imposition of Sharia, and no such system is protected under the first amendment of the constitution or any other amendment for that matter.
Indeed, every time that Islam is being referred to as being a religion only, a patriotic American should insist on clarifying what Islam really is. If we keep allowing this inaccurate perception of Islam to go unchallenged, then we may as well submit to dhimmitude, because that is what in essences will happen.
Moreover, on the religious aspects of Islam, we should also not let even that part go unchallenged, as Islam in stark contrast to faith-based religions is also the only religion of submission in the world, whereby all Muslims must submit to the will of Allah, i.e., Sharia, the divine will of Allah. Then lets remind everyone what Sharia is, a harsh totalitarian legal system that institutionalizes discrimination against females and non-Muslims and that also incorporates a system of draconian punishments such as stonings, amputations, and beheadings.
Not only that, but the religion of Islam also forbids the freedom of conscience under the pain of death. Hence, a Muslim can’t leave the religion of Islam as that is murtaad (apostasy), which is a very serious offense in Islam that is punished by death. Hell, a Muslim can’t even question the tenets of their religion, as that is shirk, an offense under Islam also punishable under the pain of death.
Indeed, unless we are prepared to meet the freedom of religion arguments head on then we will never stop the impending Islamization of our society. Therefore, we must oppose the building of the ground zero supremacist mosque not only because it is a symbol of Muslim supremacism and an indignation to the victims of 9/11, but also because Islam is not just a religion, since it is also a very radical form of totalitarianism that seeks world domination. Don’t believe me? Hell, just look inside every Muslim country in the world today and tell me what you see!
Is it just me, or is the Koran deliberately written in order to confuse not only simple minded Muslims but everybody else?
They're doing a good job. I talk to people and they're still convinced that the devious hate-driven elitist Muslims we talk about here are nothing to do with Islam at all.
Best way is learn exactly how they dupe seemingly intelligent people and use it against them. Any ideas - or is it too late?
Our society, represented by our government at all levels, is based on compromise. Is islam compromise is spelled CONQUEST. This is a cultural hurdle we have to pass to correctly understand the motivation behind these acts.
Tarek Fatah about Faisal Rauf:
"He could have proposed a memorial to the 9/11 dead with a denouncement of the doctrine of armed jihad, but he chose not to....
Well, Tarek Fatah, that would not be good enough.
Because we have heard so many times already so-called moderate Muslims and also Islam-apologists "denounce", "condemn" the so-called "extremists", "fanatics". But it's still only open-ended, non-committing, untrustworthy.
No, I for one like to ask you to CHOOSE between the sources of 2 (at least in part) opposite systems of governing; Democratic theory and Islamic theory. I would urgently ask of you, and Rauf and all Muslims in the end, to CHOOSE between the 2 systems, collections of laws on the points where the 2 contradict. I would ask you to choose democratic essential laws and values OVER Islamic ones in case of contradiction.
That or you can strive for good Islamic societies in Islamic countries, not in Democratic ones anymore. You would be thanked and respected for your honesty if you preferred Islamic essential laws over Democratic ones that contradict it. And let infidels respond appropriately.
If you do choose the Democratic essential laws and values then still it would behoove you and other Muslims to understand that the trust for Muslims in general among knowledgeable infidels logically is very low right now. And you need to build trust back up again. Accepting monitoring and checks of declarations and actions of Muslims worldwide and response of other Muslims residing in Democratic countries, or lack thereof.
And about this choosing I for one also ask of Muslims in Democratic countries like Tarek Fatah about the choice for total freedom to apostasize from Islam, overruling any punishments, like death-sentences, against apostasy from Islam.
Also, I ask choosing of Muslims in favor of striving for complete reciprocity in the rights and opportunities of all religious minorities around the world. So equality of situation of infidels under Muslim-rule and Muslims under infidel-rule. And clear support for that in declarations and actions. And once declaring this, under oath, would be good enough. But monitoring and checks upon this should be allowed by you.
Pending all that, and understanding the incompatibility between Democratic and Islamic ideology, immigration of Muslims into Democratic societies should be stopped or hindered as much as possible. Or so is my opinion.
My appreciation for your work highlighting events-- disbelief that educated well heeled Americans can find excuses to support what is going on, but the only explanation is that politicians are generally self-serving vermin who suck up to vote banks, even if it means selling their nation down the river ( I make this remark after reading several articles on this site)
The insensitivity of the so called followers of extreme Islam is no surprise as they demonstrate their huge capacity to destroy and kill indiscriminately -- just look at the recent murder of the medical team (infidels!) who went out on a limb to help those in Afghanistan -- those in administration today have no fear that they would ever be brought to account for their decisions (watch Buh and gang sleeping well!)
Hopefully people power would bring this dumb exercise in new York to a stop
Mayor Bloomberg deserves the title King of the Dhimmi Kool-aid Drinkers for his stance on the mosque at ground zero. I personally feel that in some way, HUSSEIN Obama must be behind this or Bloomberg wouldn't be defying the majority of NYC to allow this mosque to be built. The attack on 9-11 was NOT just on NYC but the whole of America and the majority of Americans are pissed off that the idea of a mosque at ground zero should even be considered much less going forth with it being built. I also can't believe that not ONE of those community planners on that board would not be against building this mosque on sacred ground. I'm sorry but this is just not passing the smell test to me.
My sentiments exactly! www.pcfrogpot.com
"Boiling in the Politically Correct Frog Pot"
The West needs to wise up and jump out of there!
I second that.
We should ask for a pledge of allegiance to the constitution of our countries from each muslim. Why muslims only? Because Islam, the muslim doctrine, is incompatible with universal human rights, in particular the freedom of conscience, speech and religion, and democratic government. We have a reason for suspecting them.
If someone lies or renounces his allegiance in favor of shariah law, then this deed shall have legal consequences. Now, we can think of certain consequences.
1. A public enemy shall not hold any public office.
2. A public enemy shall not participate in democratic elections. He looses the right to vote and the right to be elected.
3. A public enemy shall not be entitled to government benefits, in particular financial aid.
4. A public enemy of dual citizenship shall loose his American or European Citizenship. He shall be sent back to his country of origin.
Of course, this has to be decided in an independent court following a fair trial.
This is just a proposal, but we are not obliged to nurture people who seek to take away our freedoms and destroy our countries. This is the basic idea. What do you think?
So this Tarek Fatah, this islamic snake slithers out from under his rock to hiss that the mosque shouldn't be built there. I wonder where was he in the debate? why did he wait until it was approved to be built by the authorities. Why did he not come out sooner to lead his so called moderate muslims against the mosque? or is this his attempts to provoke sympathy from those who oppose this mosque? This looks suspicious.
Regardless this guy is a total stealth jihadist snake. he doesn't want the infidals to get suspicious, he wants to take his time devouring his victims slowly. Just like the python.
Hello bhigr,
It was great to see your post. I am in total agreement. You are definitely ahead of me concerning thinking of consequences, but they sound good.
Living in Holland, discussing Islam & Democracy as often as I get a chance, I have noticed that it is the Political Correct People we have to sway. They are so eager always to defend the Muslims. Furthermore I have many dealings with Muslims where I live and in the presence of infidels they almost always behave well and are nice people.
So your, our, explanation of what Islam really is and how we should ask Muslims to be somehow accountable for allegiance to our "system" are very important.
We can say it even with respect to Muslims in the sense that they are just following a totalitarian ideology which wants a theocratic state which is opposed to/ different from our democratic state.
And this should be handled somehow. It is my hope that people like us can persuade others ever more of the logic and necessity of this.
For my country, Holland, I have hope, because Geert Wilders (I voted for him) has a lot of support. He already suggested your proposal concerning holders of dual passports too. For criminals.
Dear Yusef,
In a society that is committed to equality of people irrespective of religion, race, gender, ethncity etc., yes, it is a crime to have and forward a political ideology that says that people belonging to one religion will dominate those of other religions.
You are right in one respect, thanks for admitting that Islam is a political belief. And this political belief would normally not permitted in a society truly committed to universal human rights. It is being allowed at present in free societies because of the confusion that it is a religion and not really a political ideology of world domination and subjugation of all those who do not believe in it. But at some point, such a false line will be impossible to sustain and then you can be sure that all free societies will start passing laws to curb the practice of Islam.
In India, a court petition was filed saying that Islam is a medieval political ideology that spreads hatreds for people of other religions. Anyone familiar with Islam's primary texts, it's interpretations and the history and practice of Islam will concur (provided he is himself committed to universal human rights). The petition was admitted and was argued in court. For now, the ban sought on Islam was not pushed, because it was argued to be a religion.
But some day, the kaffirs will understand that Islam is more like Nazism or Communism rather than, say Christianity. Once that happens, you can be sure that abolition of Islam will begin globally.
Sanjay