Australia: Non-Muslims must cover up at municipal pool to avoid offending Muslims during Ramadan

When in Muslim countries, non-Muslims should conform their behavior to Islamic sensibilities. When in non-Muslim countries, non-Muslims should conform their behavior to Islamic sensibilities. Once you have grasped this basic principle, all will be well. “Cover up for pool event during next year’s Ramadan,” by Padraic Murphy in the Herald Sun, September 23 (thanks to all who sent this in):

UPDATE 12.35pm: A PLAN to force families to cover up to avoid offending Muslims at a public event has triggered furious debate.

An overwhelming 94 per cent of heraldsun.com.au readers disagree with the legal ruling approving the contentious ban during next year’s Ramadan.

So far the Premier John Brumby has refused to weigh into the debate about the event, saying he will wait to see the VCAT [Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal] ruling before making any comment.

VCAT has approved a ban on uncovered shoulders and thighs for a community event to be held at the Dandenong Oasis, a municipal pool.

“Participants aged 10 and over must ensure their bodies are covered from waist to knee and the entire torso extending to the upper arms,” a request by Dandenong City Council and the YMCA states in an exemption application to the Equal Opportunities Act.

“Participants must not wear transparent clothing.”

This issue has also sparked a huge community debate, with well over 500 people commenting on heraldsun.com.au this morning.

Many readers feel the administrative ruling has gone too far to appease minority interests, and even senior Islamic figures have raised concerns about the precedent….

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Comments

  1. says

    Preemptive Dhimmitude Backfires

    http://eye-on-the-world.blogspot.com/2010/09/do-gooders-cause-more-problems-thanh.html

    (Australia) Dandenong City Council has really set the cat amongst the pigeons by unveiling an edict that during Ramadan next year, people who wish to swim will have to cover up so as not to offend any Muslims who may just happen to be swimming.

    Yup, so concerned are the people behind this fantastic way in which to bring different communities together, they forgot to ask any Muslims in the first place, and the outrage caused by this so called brilliant idea has divided Muslims and non-Muslims even further.

    The thing is, Muslims tend not to swim during Ramadan, as doing so may lead to Allah’s little floaters to swallowing some water and thus breaking their fast. Which is how one UK council sees swimming for Muslims during Ramadan. Problem for Stoke council was they insisted that swimming be banned for everybody (Muslims and non-Muslims alike) during Ramadan.

    See? Yet again do-gooders causing yet more problems. (Thanks to eye on the world)

  2. says

    We are told by ‘moderate’ Muslims the wearing of the Muslim veils from the Hijab to Burqa are freely derived decisions.

    This action demanding Muslim women and non-Muslim women alike to ‘cover up to a ‘standard’ clearly shows the underling Muslim societal pressure on Australian women.

    Now we also have non-Muslim Australian women being forced to adhere to a seventh century misogynistic paradigm in our publically owned facilities.

    It is time we enacted Human rights laws to prevent these objectionable Muslim actions of making women ashamed of their own bodies and made to feel they are responsible for mens unsolicited sexual actions towards them.

  3. says

    I represent a minority interest!
    The sight of women wearing the Hijab during Australia Day and Anzac Day offends me.

    Will the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal appease me please?

    When does the madness stop??

  4. says

    The arrogance of the ‘useful idiots’ at VCAT is amazing,citizens should ignore the ban and exercise their rights. Definitely an example of Kuffar-phobia.

  5. says

    As of this moment there are over 800 comments with 94% opposing it.

    Of course, 70% of Americans oppose the Ground Zero mosque and we can see all the effect that has had here.

    Personally, i wish all Muslims would cover themselves from head to foot so I don’t need to see they at all.

  6. says

    Ah, it’s Yusef, the expert on U.S. Constitutional law, wading into (no pun) the swimming debate. Now he’s complaining that Australians are whiners.

    Yusef, the unbroken chord of whining eminates from your Muslim brethren over everything from piggy banks to teddy bears.

    Did I say ‘whining?’ I meant mob riots, death threats, murders, and routine pandemonium whenever the slightest perceived affront can be manufactured.

  7. says

    “So far the Premier John Brumby has refused to weigh into the debate about the event”

    But who introduced the ruling? He did. So he rattled the wasp’s nest, and now pretending he has nothing to do with it. Like an evil, madman, he’s not standing aside, gloating, eyes glittering with anticipation of the division of the people, and the rioting.

  8. says

    I’m surprised menstruating women and sweaty kafirs are allowed in the same pool as Muslims, mate.

    Crikey, a lot of you dhimmi sheilas and blokes need to smarten up your act.

  9. says

    “This is insufficient. The cover up age range should extend downwards to five or lower, as even very young children’s shoulders give Muslim men impure thoughts… ”

    We’ve lost the U.K. , Australia and Canada, and Sweden, for sure.

    The only hope is the U.S.

    IF, people can work through the illegal Mexicans,on the W. Coast, and the BP Oil Spill in the G. of Mex.

    We’ve got troubles….

  10. says

    Oy! This is “multi-cultural” insanity and cowardly kow-towing at its worst.

    Were I an Australian who bathed at this pool, I would encourage my fellow-countrymen to show up during Ramadan in thongs, no matter how repulsive the idea is (in most cases), the thought of this bowing to “Islamic sensibilities” is madness.

  11. says

    I am surprised that no readers have yet caught on, the West seems impelled to commit cultural suicide faster than a drug addict can shoot up heroin. What amazes me most of all, is that so many Westerners are totally ignorant of their impending demise.

  12. says

    So far the Premier John Brumby has refused to weigh into the debate about the event, saying he will wait to see…”

    What a disgusting excuse for a man & leader – can’t say anything yet, has to wait for some other body to rule. Was this wuss actually elected by Aussies?

  13. says

    “Participants aged 10 and over must ensure their bodies are covered from waist to knee and the entire torso extending to the upper arms,” a request by Dandenong City Council and the YMCA states in an exemption application to the Equal Opportunities Act.
    …………….

    According to Wikipedia, most Muslims in Dandenong are Bosnian”and we’re always being told how very “moderate” Bosnian Muslims are.

    By the way, when I was researching the subject of swimming during Ramadan, one of the first few references on Google was to “swimming in blood””Muslims! Ya gotta love ’em…or not…

  14. says

    Check http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/16/3013198.htm?site=ballarat wherein the Equal Opportunities Commissioner for the state of Victoria says the ban must be put into perspective.

    Helen Szoke says the restrictions apply to a two-hour, after hours swimming session, targeted at multi-faith groups.

    “People are not obliged to attend, minimum standards of dress are very common and where minimum standards of dress are identified on occasions it’s often to allow people to participate,” she said.

    This is the woman who presided over a farcical hate prosecution of two pastors who read violent passages freom the Koran. It arose from a complaint organized by a muslim woman employed in her organization. That staff member, a muslim woman, sent some converts to a seminar run by two pastors about Islam so they could have their feelings hurt by hearing said pastors read from the Koran and then make a complaint.

    Now she reveals that inter/multi-faith is no such thing, it is a term referring to westerners adapting to muslim customs in western lands. Also like any good western feminist she implicitly supports the imams and jealous husbands and fathers who would prevent their women from swimming with normal swimwear. And this is a feminist in charge of a government body charged with ensuring equal opportunity for women.

  15. says

    This would be a good time for those string bikinis, speedos or even better nude swimming. Claim to be Pagan/Wiccan and demand nude bathing according to your religious beliefs. Insist on it. I guarantee you that attendance at the pools will be standing room only.

  16. says

    even senior Islamic figures have raised concerns

    like they always do when something has exposed Islam’s claims to preferential treatment, and there’s an obvious need for a retreat.

    Isn’t Helen Szoke an unpleasantly slippery thing?! It should be quite impossible to say this submissive Interfaith bridge building stuff with a straight face, but apparently she manages just fine. “the psychological effects are very much to do with persecution and feeling marginalized and targeted. And some groups at the moment are feeling that quite acutely“. And choosing to ignore the psychological effect caused by the contempt for other religions expressed by Islam: it is always, but always, a one-way street.

  17. says

    Here’s a little something else about mahoundian “chastity”, “virtues” and “morals”… Could the following disgusting display of mahoundian unbound lechery have been prevented if the victim had worn a mobile tent??? (Comments italics by Artemis Gordon Glidden)

    ————————————————————

    “Charges were filed on Wednesday in Malmö against 10 men suspected of having sold a mentally handicapped 14-year-old girl for sex.

    The girl is alleged to have been sexually abused and raped by several different men after she ran away from a foster home last spring.

    Seven men have been charged with aggravated child rape, with three of them also facing charges of human trafficking, with an alternative charge of aggravated pimping.

    […]

    All of the suspects are men ages 16- to 67-years-old.

    Do they share any other common traits?

    It was back on March 17th when the 14-year-old girl escaped from a foster home in a nearby municipality before ending up in the Rosengård district of Malmö.

    Does the Rosengård district of Malmö sound familiar?

    ————————————————————

    I wonder if Swedes (those NOT from Iraq, Porkistan, Somalia, Turkey and Yemen, that is) can freely speak about such an atrocity without being labeled “racists” and “islamophobes.” Probably not.

  18. says

    As for what “Swedes” from Somalia, Iraq, Porkistan, Yemen and Turkey might have to freely say about the story I mentioned in my previous comment, it’s got to be one of the two following options: they’ll either say that it’s all the girl’s fault; or they’ll speak proudly about how the “unfairly accused innocent troo-beeleevaresâ„¢” were following the example of their child-molesting prophet pretender, uswa hasana all-insane all-kamel, whose each and every sexual desire was never to go unfulfilled… Even when it involved molesting nine-year-old girls… And, for that, they should have nothing to be ashamed of before the local chapter of the umma.

  19. says

    HMMMM………Are we non-Muslims too foolish to be sensitive to all manner of Muslim codes? This is indeed an example of extreme stupidity and ignorance.Why we should ever need to accommodate these Muslims coming to live amid us.They must conform to our ways if they want to live among us non-Muslims.If they feel offended by our ways,it is up to them to go back to their hell-holes called al-dar-Islam.Enough is enough.We must stop all this madness !

  20. says

    How low can you go “Down Under”. Its time to take a much stronger stand opposing Muslims forcing their customs on host countries. Without being radical(and if you want to call me that, its fine). If you are a guest in any country – you you tow the line or get out – its as simple as that. So Australian citizens – Wake Up!

  21. says

    Somebody correct me if I am wrong…but I don’t believe this would go over in the United States.
    It would form discrimination and/or class distinction.

    America is supposedly based on equality in people. If this happened here, in the US, I would hope to see law suits thrown at the ruling body.

    I guess I do propose or at least i hope for…a test case.

    Like I said..please correct me if I am wrong.

  22. says

    It’s time that Muslims from around the world be brought in the 21st Century from the 7th Century. It’s time for their civilization to reform and be modernized. If Muslims don’t like the way that normal people dress, they should shut up and stay home. Or better yet, go back to wherever you came from.

  23. says

    Has the entire civilized world gone completely stupid? If Muslims want everyone around them to follow their customs and laws they should stay in their Muslim countries. But, this is not their plan. The Muslim plan is to infiltrate, cause change and eventually dominate.

  24. says

    Has the entire civilized world gone completely stupid? If Muslims want everyone around them to follow their customs and laws they should stay in their Muslim countries. But, this is not their plan. The Muslim plan is to infiltrate, cause change and eventually dominate.

  25. says

    Perhaps they should lower the age to 9. As this was the age of girl that the all revered, “muhammad,” decided to take on as one of his wives and rape her at will. Or maybe suspend the murder laws for “rammadan” as this will allow the “men” of Islam to either visually or literally rape their female victims and blame it on the girls themselves. This is ridiculous. The ‘poor’ believers of Islam have absolutely no self control to abstain from staring at females.

    Let’s also ban any laws prohibiting domestic violence. Every major koranic scholar has interpreted the koran and muhammad as endorsing “beating your wife,” if she speaks up, leaves the house with no good reason, or rejects sex when demanded by her husband. Last I checked, forced sex was called rape. Yet another fine, fine attribute of Islam that we should reject from this “peace-loving” religion.

    Our Western ideals and freedoms are under attack and being subjugated under those very freedoms. If we don’t stand up and take notice, we will all be living under ‘suria’ law that was enacted by muslims abusing our freedom of religious rights.

    Christianity is being attacked. I will no longer sit back and be quiet about my beliefs. Nor will I allow my family, or any other “infidel” to be victimized by this hate filled man-made religion.

    “Beware of false prophets, who come in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.” Matthew 7:15

  26. says

    Well, in the US, we have an unlikely to exercise option. The restriction on immigration from the OIC. Given that the Constitution specifically grants the Congress the governance of Naturalization, and the Supremem Court grants the Attorney General wide lattitude in the regulations under that, we *could* bar admission of Islamic Country citizens on the basis of National Security.

    Not sure what other countries could start. We certainly should exercise that discretion related to “imams” who preach hatred/attack of the US.

  27. says

    I grew up middle-class Presbyterian in a highly conservative old-order Mennonite area where the women wore long black dresses and had their heads covered. Men dressed a particular way, too. Women didn’t cut their hair. They weren’t even supposed to have buttons on their clothes because they were “too fancy.” In all those years, that included having Mennonite babysitters, I never once remembering a single Mennonite soul requesting (much less demanding) that I dress more conseratively. We played with their children in their yards in shorts, halter tops, bare feet, swim suits, cropped hair, whatever. Never a sound of disapproval from any of them. Muslims could learn from their peaceful, loving, tolerant example.

  28. says

    Haha also remember to bring a pork sandwich and some pornography, you forgot that one

    At any rate, if you actually read the statement, it’s for 2 hours when the pool is normally closed to the public, 11 months from now.

    What whiners.

  29. says

    “Haha also remember to bring a pork sandwich and some pornography, you forgot that one”
    Pornography?
    Is that all you can think of?
    Shift your brain in second gear.

  30. says

    Joseph sez:

    At any rate, if you actually read the statement, it’s for 2 hours when the pool is normally closed to the public, 11 months from now.

    Even if this was to happen in a 30 minute period, 11 years from now, the objection remains valid.

    Whiners? Certainly not.

  31. says

    It’s a matter of principle – this is not a Muslim event, it’s an event for the general public in a public place in a non-Muslim country, therefor the people attending it should not be obligated to confrom to Muslim dress code. What’s most problematic with it is that it may come to be seen as a precedent – you start from forcing Muslim dress code on non-Muslims in one public place at one public event as to not offend Muslims who want to attend it, then next there will be other events in other public places where Muslim dress code would be forced on non-Muslims so that Muslims can attend these events, and next thing it will become the rule.

    Look, there are conservative Christians and Orthodox Jews whose dress codes are far more modest than normal in the West, and they have been living in the West much longer than Muslims, yet nobody is making such accommodations for them. If you suggest people should dress “modestly” in a public event to avoid offending the sensibilities of some very conservative Christians whole hell will break loose, and it would be the same leftists who bend over backwords to accommodate what they believe just might be Muslim sensitivities who would unleash that hell.

    If it was a Muslim event attented also by non-Muslims it would be acceptable, but a public event in a public swimming pool in Australia?

  32. says

    As a testament to his “mahoundianness”, Yusef had to mention porn, and here’s why:

    Pentagon officials and intelligence analysts concede privately that our foes also have a voracious appetite for pornography”hardly shocking behavior for young men, but hard to square with an image of piety. Many laptops seized from the Taliban and al-Qaeda are loaded with smut. U.S. intelligence analysts have devoted considerable time to poring over the terrorists’ favored Web sites, searching for hidden militant messages. “We have terabytes of this stuff,” said one Department of Defense al-Qaeda analyst, speaking on the condition of anonymity. “It isn’t possible that they are encrypting messages in all of this stuff. Some of these guys are just perverts.”

    But can we blame poor Yusef more than we can blame his beloved rasullullullulahlahllah Mahound, that thing whose habits and deeds are supposed to be the epitome of perfection for all penis-possessing mahoundians?

    “The prophet – may Allah’s prayers and peace be upon him – said to him, “I will call you Ya’foor. O Ya’foor!’ Ya’foor replied, “I obey.’ The prophet asked, “Do you lust after females?’ The donkey replied, “No!'”

    Cried the priest: “Even the donkey blushed for shame concerning your prophet’s over-sexed inquiries! Here we have what is supposed to be a miracle”a talking donkey; and of all things to communicate to this animal, your prophet’s most urgent question was whether the donkey lusts after females?”

  33. says

    Oi Yusef, why should we have to conform to you and your fellow savages in our own infidel countries? As you don’t like it, get out of the West and back to your savage lands, where you should feel at home amongst your fellow killjoys.

  34. says

    Wowsher, thanks for the background on dhimmi tool Helen Szoke.

    Here she is in 2005, in the Qur’an reading incident you cite:

    Helen Szoke, ceo of Victoria’s Equal Opportunity Commission, says religious vilification laws – also adopted in Queensland and Tasmania – are needed to “discourage the abuse of free speech,” which can be hurtful: “If a person is experiencing their belief system being publicly ridiculed or undermined, the psychological effects are very much to do with persecution and feeling marginalized and targeted. And some groups at the moment are feeling that quite acutely.”

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1077728,00.html

    What if we are “undermining” a belief in Fascism? We wouldn’t want any Nazis to feel “marginalized”, would we? sarc/off

  35. says

    Would absolutely love to try to make our leaders (and I use the term loosely!)to do something, but unfortunately ‘Australian Public Servants’ are anything but…
    It would appear that their sole purpose is to allow the minorities (now rapidly becoming the majorities – yet another boat arriving today! Yay – new riots due at the detention centres this weekend) to dictate what happens in our country.
    You’d think we’d have learned a few lessons from the UK, but apparently not…

  36. says

    One of these “figures” is Sherene Hassan, a Muslim woman who has devoted decades to promoting Islam in Melbourne, and recently has expressed disturbance about the push for sharia here. Now she is worried about this expression of deference to Muslims. I sometimes wonder what she thinks about when she goes off to sleep. All her efforts, years of loyal da’wa…is it leading to the suppression of herself and her female friends?

    Also: Dandenong is the home of a great many southern Sudanese, who fled from Islamic persecution. I wonder what they make of this?

    Also: I had a bit of an argument today with a friend. he commented on the sexy clothing (tight), and the bright colours Muslim girls wear here. He found it VERY attractive, and thought it just showed they were normal girls, wanting to show off. I said I thought they are being ALLOWED to show off as a part of da’wa, to make us kuffars attracted to Islam (indeed, there have been many “fashion parades” here showing off the “glamour” of Islam) and that in fully Islamic societies they are forced to be more modest and wear looser clothing. He was most mocking of my idea of them being “allowed” and asked who allowed them…there is no pope, etc. Am I being paranoid? Am I wrong? He thought I was crazy. But I noticed the same thing in Europe…tight, jewel-coloured clothes, much more showy than clothes worn in Muslim countries…and I won’t even start on Afghanistan. Maybe I am letting this stuff get to me; but I see Islam as a kind of multifaceted virus with unlimited methods of reproducing itself…history seems to bear me up…am I going mad?

  37. says

    We had a case very much like this here in Denmark some years ago, involving a 10-year old girl sold to prostitution by her Danish father. An ugly case.
    According to newspapers there were even arranged some sort of regular bus trips for groups of Turkish men to come and have a go at her. Hey, an evening out for some fun, nothing wrong in that?

    And the Somali woman who had been divorced from her husband after they arrived in Denmark. The rumor was put about in the Somali community she had no one to protect her, and accordingly from all over the country men came to rape her.

  38. says

    Actually it is not uncommon in my country too see Muslim girls dressed to kill: showing a full body in a tight outfit, hips, thighs, eye catching bosom and everything. But there is always a but: always an Arab/Mid East outfit of often debatable taste, and always some sort of head covering, from a scarf to a body tent.

    And of course it is a sight rarely seen in the public life of many Muslim countries. I wonder if the young women are aware of this? Muslim women have been harassed into wearing the scarf here: that process ended some years ago, and now the full body armor is slowly creeping in.

  39. says

    And the Somali woman who had been divorced from her husband after they arrived in Denmark. The rumor was put about in the Somali community she had no one to protect her, and accordingly from all over the country men came to rape her.

    No wonder an ad against sexual harassment in Egypt had to be like this:

    The words sit over two illustrations, one comparing a veiled woman, her hair and neck covered in the manner known to Muslims as hijab, to a wrapped candy, untouched and pure.

    The other picture shows an unveiled woman, hair flying wildly and hip jutting, next to a candy that has had its wrapper stripped off — and is now covered in flies.

    “You can’t stop them, but you can protect yourself,” warns another ad likening men to flies and women to sweets. Bloggers in Egypt have taken to calling such messages the “veil your lollipop” campaign.

  40. says

    “I represent a minority interest!
    The sight of women wearing the Hijab during Australia Day and Anzac Day offends me.”

    The sight of them every day offends me.

    The idea of having them in my country offends me.

    What about my right to not have to have anything to do with people I don’t want to have anything to do with?

    I hope Australians go totally ballistic about this, and I hope their governments are smart enough to get the message.

  41. says

    “Body armour”

    Oh, I’d be more than happy to wear “body armour” when going amongst Muslims – full plate armour, that is … as long as I could have the sword and shield to go with it.

  42. says

    Infidel Task force wrote:

    Somebody correct me if I am wrong…but I don’t believe this would go over in the United States.
    It would form discrimination and/or class distinction…

    Like I said..please correct me if I am wrong.
    ……………….

    Infidel Task Force (I love you’re user name!), I guess you haven’t seen this disturbing story, from 2005:

    “Preserving modesty, in the pool”

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002389078_muslimswim.html

    Now, this is in Seattle, perhaps America’s most “politically correct” city”but that doesn’t make it any more palatable.

    Also, please notice that this craven policy of dhimmitude specifically began *after 9/11*. While some people were mourning the victims, others were hard at work wondering how we could better accommodate their murderers co-religionists.