Florida pastor says imam lied to him about Ground Zero mosque deal

1. The whole debate about the Ground zero mosque brought to the attention of the big media the financing and the real intentions of the Islamists. We need more activities to keep the momentum up! We need a movement for human rights, and more protests are needed after 9 / 11 protest.

2. My idea is the following: a 'campaign': "STOP the Saudi persecution: 2 million Christians in Saudi Arabia deserve their FIRST church".

Just imagine a bus add in New York, Washington DC or Chicago with that message written on the side. The average American has no idea that there is not a single church in Saudi Arabia and the persecution those Christians are facing. Few bus adds will start a snow ball effect, and later the TV publicity will bring that issue in the spotlight.

The NY Metropolitan Transportation Authority charged the Coalition for the Preservation of the Ground Zero $8,000 for a 1-month run of the "Why there?" ads on 36 buses. If someone can organize these adds in 3 - 4 major US cities, then the big media will follow the story and the debate will start.

The campaign "2 million Christians in Saudi Arabia deserve their FIRST church" does not need big logistics and huge finances. The whole Ground zero mosque debate and movement against it was initiated by just two people with very, very limited resources. Robert Spencer (www.JihadWatch.org) and Pamela Geller (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com) were active and persistent for several months on their blogs and and several town halls. That payed off, and the whole country was informed and alarmed. A snow ball effect followed and the big media got involved.

"2 million Christians in Saudi Arabia deserve their FIRST church" need's to be started. Few motivated individuals can be a good start. Saudi Arabian and Pakistani Christians deserve our efforts. Today, in 2010, they are killed and persecuted only because they are believers and followers of Jesus.

3. The Saudi AMBASSADOR gave a standing ovation to Obama's speech supporting the Ground Zero Mosque. He clapped and clapped for "religious tolerance." Perhaps using the imagery of the Ambassador on his feet for Obama's speech could be a part of the campaign. Furthermore we could make / use the LONG list of Saudi mosques built abroad (outside of Saudi). Also, if a Bible is found in a luggage on Saudi airport, there is a risk of prison sentence.

So, let's move the "RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE" debate into their corner. What about the churches and synagogues and buddhist shrines in the Middle East, North Africa and Indonesia: they are few in number and have numerous trouble and pressures on them.

4. After "victory" and irritation, THE MAIN AIM of the Ground Zero Mosque and the Tennessee mosques is to limit the international outreach of the American Christian missionaries. At the moment, the American missionaries are present abroad, including the muslim countries.

If the jihadis succeed to open many mosques and bring hundreds and thousands of muslim missionaries in America, then the Christian organizations in the US will limit their operations and resources overseas, and dedicate their time, money and energy on the "home front", back in the USA. That will mean less Christian missionaries in the Middle East, North Africa and Indonesia. (ie: If we have 50 Dearborn, Michigans in the USA people will start to realize they need to work / guard the home turf).

Don't underestimate the will and resolve of Islamic fundamentalists:

- Nine years after 9 / 11 they have all the paper work and place to build next to the Ground zero in NYC.
- They've build their first mosque in Murfreesboro TN in 1997. After only 13 years, they want to build a mega - mosque and Islamic center in the heartland of Evangelical America and throughout the Bible belt.
- Just look at Europe. Thousands of mosques are build everywhere, including the countries that were bastions of Christianity (England, Netherlands, Italy, France, Sweden, Germany, Norway etc.). This was unthinkable in 1975. Only after 35 years the situation is very, very different. Moreover, the "muslim vote" sometimes decides national elections, and often hundreds of local elections (mayors and city councils) are decided or overtaken by the "muslim vote".

All this happened only within 35 years. This in just a blink, just a second in the lifetime of a nation. Yes, Evangelical America is different than Europe and its postmodern atheism, but it is a clear warning how Christian lands are gradually islamized. Just look the status, human rights and persecution of Christians in any muslim country. Most of these countries were Christian (Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Egypt, Morocco, Lebanon, Turkey, Bosnia, Kosovo, Tunisia, Libya etc).

The penetration of the Islamic fundamentalism in the US follows similar pattern like Europe in the 70's, 80's and 90's. They use the naiveness of the present Obama administration, it's policy of appeasement and bowing to the Saudi king. The Islamic fundamentalists in Dearborn (MI) already can impose their agenda, they progress well in NY and LA, and now the same early phase of building Islamic structures will follow in Tennessee, Georgia, Kentucky, Texas, Florida, South Carolina, Colorado, Arizona...

5. We need to play on offense. We need to expose the muslim hypocrisy. We should not limit ourselves too much to the "NO" agenda. Let's make them play defense.

6. We need to have our CAUSE and CAUSES. So, when the Saudi king or some Middle Eastern tyrant visits some Western country, there should be demonstrations for HUMAN RIGHTS, especially for the Christians and other persecuted religious minorities.

Often, a CAUSE comes s a consequence of injustice. The injustices and discrimination against Christians in muslim lands are real and are happening EVERY day. In Saudi Arabia, Iran or Pakistan there is an open terror and persecution of Christians. We need to do something about that. Please, please spent 10 minutes googling the acts of violence against Christians in muslim countries and the status of Christians in Saudi Arabia. Everyone can draw the conclusions and will feel the sense of urgency to something about the Christians in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.

So, let's launch our own cause and causes. Let's make them play defense.

7. Once again, we need to tackle the global muslim - left agenda. It's enough of their "Palestine issues", flotillas, riots over cartoons, offended cry - babies, "islamophobia"... In the last decade, the global Left - Islamic coalition was persistent in their protests and voicing their positions. Even with only 50 or 100 protestors they were getting 2 minutes in the evening news throughout the world. It's time for our own causes and to show that continiously on the streets.

The Islamists have a global agenda and global strategy. We need a global agenda and global strategy, too. When there is a debate about "religious tolerance" in the US, let's not just talk about the US. Let's talk about saudi Arabia, too. This is a GLOBAL debate and we should raise the questions about the Christians and other minorities in the muslim countries. It is a question of reciprocity, a two way process. Islamists platform is that what is Christian is Christian and muslim, and what is muslim is only muslim. They have a right to built mosques in Rome (Italy) or Tennessee, but we can't built in Arabian peninsula. They can preach Islam everywhere and sent muslim missionaries everywhere, but they impose Sharia, including a death sentence for preaching Christianity or leaving Islam. Let's inform the world about that. Let's protest against that.

8. This may bring the Evangelical America on board, and may give many other appereances on Fox News and other big media. My hope would be that this could be a means of opening a WORLD - WIDE debate about the status of Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and other minorities under Sharia law and their rights in the muslim countries.

9. We need to mark our calenders for September 23 - 30. The annual session of the UN will take place in New York. All presidents and prime ministers (AND MEDIA) will be there. It will be a great chance to have some protests:

http://www.un.org/ga/65/index.shtml

"Stop the Saudi persecution: 2 million Christians in Saudi Arabia deserve their FIRST church". "Stop the islamic violence against Christian COPTS in Egypt". "Why the Bible is forbidden in Iran?".

Lets try to involve the Evangelicals and all other interested parties. There's enough of them in the NY / NJ / Rhode Island area for a decent, well attended protest in front of the UN. Also, there should be protests in front of other Saudi offices in the US in NY, DC, Houston, LA... You have the link of their offices in the US:

http://www.traveldocs.com/sa/embassy.htm

We need to provoke a recorded statement by any Saudi official denying the right for churches in Saudi Arabia or conversion to Christianity in Egypt, and to play that on air everywhere. A big debate will follow.

10. Dozens mosques (or hundreds?) in the US were financed by Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Malaysia... Ask the imams, muftis and the muslim boards in the US to sign petitions and publicly demand churches for the Christians in the Middle East, especially in Saudi Arabia. Ask them to publicly condemn the Saudi king and their laws, state ministries and Government.

Please watch the 9-minute must see video about the many mosques built in the American Bible belt, including the both coasts. It is on the home page, under the title "Mosque Controversy".

http://www.pjtn.org/

Let's have this campaign. Only one, two or more dedicated individuals can start all this. This is possible only in America, not in Europe or anywhere else. Greetings from Europe. May God bless you all.

"We are here to extend our hands to build peace and harmony."

Then decently denounce Hamas, a murderous antisemitic organization that claims -- do you think it might possibly be true -- to derive all of its guidance in such matters from Qur'an, Hadith, Sira.

And decently abjure, and forever, the intention to work to change the secular laws of this country, so that they conform more closely to your ideal legal system, the Shari'a. Do not say that "it is the duty of Muslims at present to obey the laws as they are written" and then add, as if sotto voce, hoping no one will notice, that "Muslims must have the right in this country to change the laws that do not agree with what they wish those laws to be, that is with the Holy Law of Islam.

That constitutes working for the overthrow -- not the violent overthrow, but the overthrow -- of this country. That should not be permitted, whatever the means chosen. And those who smile and smile and then act villainously, are not to be tolerated, despite all the chitter-chatter about the "need for tolerance." Nonsense. There are limits to all things." Neither the Constitution, nor anything else, should be construed as a suicide pact.

To Mr. Markov's fine post, I would just add one codicil: let's help rebuild St. Nicholas Church, too.

http://www.stnicholasnyc.com/

NO WAY!

The Imam lied? What's that thing in the Koran about making treaties with the infidels until Muslims are strong enough to take over?

The chances are, that the pastor will not be allowed to burn Quran, either by official pressure, or by his own fear for life, but they are already burning the American flags all over the world. USA has not lodged any protests against such events with any of the Governments for example the friendly regime of Pakistan. It means USA does not mind if its flag is burnt publicly. This attitude is further going to embolden the Islamist forces across the world, and burning of American flags is going to be favored pastime of children in the Islamic world.
As for the pastor, he would be best advised to go ahead with his plan and burn or bury the Quran, for his life is already in danger. They cannot kill him twice.

I don't believe he ever intended to go through with the Quran burning. His point was made without even lighting a single match.

The reaction to the mere announcement of his plans illuminated the intolerance and violence of even so-called "moderate" Islamists. The bonus was exposing the dhimmitude of the President, the Secretary of State, the media, and the liberal intelligentsia.

"We are here to extend our hands to build peace and harmony."

Said the spider to the fly.

I am writing from Johannesburg, South Africa (Southern Tip of Africa for those who don’t know) with regards to the burning of the Qur’an. This has caused a major thorn in your president’s side; I personally think Obama is a clown. What we see from the outside, is America, fast becoming one of the weakest nations on earth, from the “Power-house” of the world to a Nation of losers, a nation who can’t stand up for the very values your nation was built on, you can’t even organize a mass rallies to demonstrate against the building of a mosque in your iconic city, which will be the “Beginning of the End” for the so called “American Dream” The people of this country (South Africa) laugh at the Americans, country of losers, by the time you have woken up, your next president will wear a turban and the first lady a hijab.

If there ever was a time to wrought out the Muslim onslaught, it is now. Their passive, cancer like infiltration, will have you guys on the back-foot wondering why my kids have to learn Arabic, why is there a mosque on every corner, why do all my employees have to pray 5 times a day. All Obama is concerned about is that the Islamic world accept America “at any cost”. The USA belongs to the people of AMERICA and NOT ISLAM, take a stand today, writing on this forum is not going to help, roll up your sleeves, do the “Hard Yards” do something constructive that will make the Muslim back pedal.

Go out today and buy the Qur’an and a flag of any Islamic country. Tomorrow, on the 11th September, burn both of them, show your president that the rest of the USA doesn’t have sh!t for brains and you are not overly concerned what Afghanistan's or Arabs think, your primary goal is to look after Americans and not Muslims, make you objective known, "NO MUSLIMS WELCOME!"

The media is making it clear that the preacher is lying, but isn't there a problem between the words of the Florida imam and the NY imam?

Can the good pastor Jones be so naieve? He trusted a muslim? Believed a muslim? Made a good faith deal with a muslim? Muslims wouldn't know good faith if it bit 'em in the ass. Perhaps he was just looking for a way out & grabbed this slippery vine?

But this mouse-that-roared pastor has peeled yet more layers from Raufie and his dhimmi enablers. Anyone who can't see "Imam Fizzle" for the mendacious scum he is, is either irreparably stupid or wilfully blind...

This is the e-addy for the church if anyone is interested in contacting them:

info@doveworld.org

Howdee all! Long time no type :-) But good to be back.

I too have been thinking long and hard about what to do and how to organize against this infestation before it's too late for us infidels. That was an excellent post Mr Markov!

I have this to add...

1. We need to find a way to fund a marketing campaign (as in billboards, electronic tickers in NY, sides of buildings, buses, bus stops, subways, TV Ads, News Paper ads, etc)that simply:
a. quotes directly from the Quoran followed by "Wake up America This Is Serious" or something along those lines.
b. Just say NO to a Mosque at Ground Zero or the iconic big circle with a slash over "Mosque at Ground Zero"
America responds to "marketing" and it's the best way to get the sheeple to start thinking and going BAAAAAAA - really loud

2. A grassroots, nationwide effort that has ongoing and well established rallies against the Mosque effort as well as the "Islamization of our Nation" - it ever rhymes :-)

3. Rally ALL the Christian and Jewish (Other faiths welcomed too) leaders and their followers to back a unified, blunt, zero tolerance campaign that puts presure on the Imams and Muslim clerics to denounce terrorist organizations and accept/tolerate the same religious freedoms they are demanding for themselves. Have this group possibly establish themselves as a lobby group that can have a say in DC

Just sayin' - sqweeky wheel...

Actually Pastor Jones has created another propaganda victory for Islamic bullying and special pleading by apparently backing down. There's more than one type of 'useful idiot'.

There were witnesses according to the Pastor and he also says he got the verbal promise three times from the Imam.

Won't matter in the end...

I said in a post a day or so ago that Muslims are experts on building up expectations then dashing them in a moment. This 'bait and switch' tactic is what is happening here.

However, there is interesting point that arises from this. If Rauf is prepared to lie to stop the Qur'an burning, then the event is important to him. But why? I think that the world of Islam is afraid that a psychological barrier will be breached. First, everybody draw Mohammed Day, now burning the Qur'an. As each psychological barrier falls, there is the possibility that the dam will burst and then there will be no way to control anti-Islamic sentiment.

The PC gang would be put on the back foot, too. Everything would just start to get harder and harder. That does not mean to say I support the burning of the Qur'an, it's just very interesting from a psychological point of view that Rauf should try to head it off.

Watching CNN tonight was an education on the media. Anderson Cooper repeatedly said that the pastor was trying to "extend his 15 minutes of fame" and that he is a "publicity hound". Paul Begala, one of the talking-head guests, called Pastor Jones a "publicity whore". David Gergen came close to saying the pastor was insane. Can any one of them even fathom that this pastor is just saying what he believes and that he is simply trying to get his message across?

Anderson Cooper revealed himself to be quite the snob as he disparaged Rev. Jones repeatedly for selling furniture on the Internet to raise money for his church, as though that discredits him.

When Imam Musri came on as a guest Anderson ran the interview as though it was obvious Musri had not promised that the Ground Zero mosque would be moved. Somehow I believe Rev. Jones over Imam Musri. Why should Terry Jones make it up? I understand Rev. Jones has witnesses. It didn't look to me as though Anderson Cooper will want to interview those witnesses.

Rev. Jones keeps getting cast as a radical extremist whose views are rejected by most Americans. Actually, I think most Americans are neutral or support Rev. Jones. The elite media people are in such a bubble they haven't a clue what the American people are really thinking.

eleanor
'He's smooth and seemingly cultured, but something about him reminds me of Von Ribbentrop, who could also appear smooth and cultured, until you actually started to listen to what he had to say...'

Actually he has a nice face and if that was all you had to go by , you might say , 'He looks a nice man .
But he's a venomou snake .

And he can say things like ....
'We are here to extend our hands to build peace and harmony."...'
with a straight , kind-looking face

"...To understand Islam we need to look at the most primitive organisational state of mankind - Tribalism.
If we regard the Ummah as a tribe, and the Koran, the Pedophile and the Black Meteorite as the tribe's three main totems, we begin to get a better understanding of Islam. A tribe derives its identity and unity by displays of reverence towards supernatural totems, and feels insecure and threatened whenever the power of its totems is weakened, for example by the totems being 'humiliated' or 'polluted'. One of the surest ways of demoralising a tribe has always been to desecrate its totems..." More at http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/triumph-of-islam-how-primitive.html

The proof that imam Musri was the one who lied is that he was standing next to the pastor when the pastor said that he had called off the Koran burning because there was an agreement to move the GZ mosque. At no time during the press conference on camera did imam Musri deny what the pastor was saying.

I am generally opposed to book burning, but in the current climate, burning the Koran may be the most powerful expression of free speech by any human being on the planet.

I think you have to admit that the pastor (who may be uncultured in lots of ways) has handled this brilliantly. Without any budget, and with a congregation of less than 50 of whom often only a dozen show up at church, he has brought the attention of the entire world on the key point of contention in the debate over Islam: is free speech more important than religious sentiments?

If he proceeds with the Koran burning on 9/11, that will overshadow anything else that happens at Ground Zero, no matter how many flags are waved and how many tears shed.

Fighting in the moral plane is very, very, very tough. Who would have thought that an uncultured person like this pastor would become the most effective combatant?

I think Mr. Spencer may wish to re-read my prior posts. There is very little time left to engage the debate with full force.

Burning the Qur'an will NOT endanger the troops or anybody else. It's just a book. How can its burning in itself harm anybody except perhaps the person holding it or the local neighborhood if he doesn't take reasonable precautions to prevent the fire spreading? Hm? How?

What endangers people is the all too predictable response from Islamists all over the world. Simply registering their disapproval formally and legally is all Christians ever seem to do, all Jews ever seem to do, all sane religions all over the world seem to do. Islamists are different in this regard. This will focus world attention on them.

Do we try to appease like PM Chamberlain or hit them head on like PM Churchill? Are we mice or are we red blooded Americans?

{^_^}

Here's an interview with Terry Jones in which he says that there were witnesses in the room when Musri promised that the Mosque would be moved.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/7993495/911-Koran-burning-suspended-but-not-cancelled.html

I watched the to and fro shennanigans on Sky last night.

My impression was that Jones is a straight man, and a man of his word. He's entered the snakepit where lying comes as easily as breathing and consequently was wrong footed.

The stark division between this open and honest man and those levantine, oily schemers could not have been greater.

My Father was stationed in Egypt during WW2 and he soon twigged. Never trust a single one of them being the upshot. They'd smile one minute and kill you the next was the over riding message.

I've dealt with Pakistanis in my business back here and it's the same. They lie, wriggle, whine or then explode in false indignation. As for getting paid? Takes all means neccessary and months late.

I did find however that a forceful attitude works wonders. When confronted, after you've challenged the dishonesty and put that dishonesty to them in no uncertain terms they back off.

If only our so called leaders would adopt this tactic?

To be honest, I don't really think moving the mosque elsewhere helps that much. As long as it is a place that promotes the ideology of jihad sympathizers (and the people behind the project have proven this almost beyond a shadow of a doubt), the mosque shouldn't be allowed to be built ANYWHERE. Period. The best way to honor the memory of those who died on 9/11 is to prevent the killing of other people in the name of the same totalitarian ideology of Islam.

I'm sort of discouraged when I see so many of our intellectual leaders cowering before two-bit Muslims, especially when I recall quite clearly Chairman Mao standing up to them with his "Let a Hundred Qur'ans Burn" campaign.

One would think we could do at least as well as Mao. I'm pretty much into 200 burning Qur'ans like Jones has promised us.

If anyone has a link to a copy of the Mao poster, please pass it on to me. I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Burning a filthy book is anathema to those muhammadans, but burning kaffirs or zanadiqa is allright.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJJ08GGYxoI&feature=player_embedded

The rev seems to me is playing the game by the Muslim rules. That's pretty canny!

Muslims celebrating 9/11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmo64fcvKs0

If I had fallen asleep like Rip Van Winkle and awakened in the last few days with all the media all over the world, the POTUS himself, the Secretary of Defense, our most trusted allies, the FBI, and all other subordinate departments in the government focused on an unknown Baptist preacher who was threatening to burn a copy (not the original) of the koran, I would think that I had awakened in an alternate universe or in Alice's wonderland.

This all shows how our government has deteriorated to the level of thinking that one might expect in a junior high school setting (No disrespect intended for Junior high schools).

While we may all have our serious opinions, this incident should not be a matter of national defense. The fact that our government thinks that it is, points to the real weakness in our real strategic defense. Our enemies surely must be smiling.

A TV "news" guy just said 99.99% of people disagree with burning a koran. Has anyone seen a survery?

Are the "news" people doing journalism here? Other than investigating the pastor back to his youth.

I can't recall seeing more "news" people ever using more disparaging adjective words towards anyone than this pastor. Even towards bin laden. One 'news' guy just kept saying there has to be some law that can be 'dug up' to arrest this pastor, while practically wringing his hands.

And agree with Arthur. The two stood together at the news conference. If the pastor got it wrong, why didn't the iman say something? I guess we all know why.

I wonder what threats the FBI made to this guy?

They are not here to barter. They are here to extend a hand of conversion, or to use mobs to force dhimmi officials into obediance, leaving our own people with no choice but to fight.

Last night, according to Pamela, the Imam's wife, Daisy Khan, was actually bragging on Keith Olbermann's show how they screwed the pastor.

She openly said that they lied to him!!!

They think it is a big joke that a gullible infidel fell for their latest lie.

She looked into the camera and smirked, " There can never be any comparison between our holy mosque and what he was doing. We would never agree to stop the mosque to get him to stop what he planned to do."

So much for honesty as a virtue.

http://www.jewishdailyreport.wordpress.com

----

Come to the rally tomorrow at 3pm, in front of 51 Park Place Ground Zero mosque, between Church and West Broadway. Let the world know your feelings on this.

This was nothing but a publicity stunt from the beginning but once again the Muslims have erred in their reactions. Karzai called it an insult to Islam, Yudhoyono said it's a threat to world peace. Afghans have taken to the streets burning an American flag and chanting death to Christians. Jones has done nothing, burnt nothing.

http://mightyrubble.blogspot.com/2010/09/muslim-leaders-irresponsible-reactions.html?spref=tw

Hershl
I took a look at your link and saw this
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/cabbie-attacked/?hp
which was what I expected from those who read the NYTimes.

But what I wondered the most was about that photo of the cabbie in the story.
Is it odd that he was slashed about the face and his throat was cut halfway across but he doesn't have any blood running in this photo and no bandages on his head, face or neck after being slashed by a knife?
Just wondering? Is this what a slashed person looks like at the hospital?
Anyone with medical experience here able to comment?

This is starting to remind me of the Cuban missile crisis.

Going on ten years now and the Huge 9-11 cavernous awe inspiring hole in the earth where the twin towers once stood, is still there - a perpetual memorial to the superiority of the Muslim Bible over American Democracy. Now, a beautiful HUGE mosque will be built on the edge of that Muslim-made Grand Canyon so that Muslim visitors from all over the world can climb up to the observation decks which are specially made to give everyone a view of what can happen to a country that dares to defy the clear warnings in the Holy KORAN that no infidel should trouble those who follow the only true faith in God that ever existed or ever will exist. On viewing the magnificent victory hole which will scar American forever, the Muslim viewer will be filled with glorious wonder and pride whilst the Americans will be humbled at the sight and realize the holy and mighty superiority of the religion of the Koran and the perfect faith of the only Chosen People of God - a mighty faith that laughs at death, and looks forward with absolute confidence to an eternity in heaven with co-habiting beautiful naked angels whilst enjoying watching the horrible agonies of all the non-Muslims suffering in Hell forever! But, right now, there is the great hole in the ground - you have to ask yourself, "why is it still there? How hard can it be to cover up this insult? Why has it not been done? How many big oil money bribes did it take to keep it here for the viewing delight of all the good Muslims in the world? A lot you can be sure - paying off American to sh*t can their national pride does not come cheap![how am I doing Marisol? Thanks for letting me back].

The Florida imam probably just blithely lied as is the Muslim custom, in order to get the Qur'an-burning off the table, with nary one iota of intent to facilitate any mosque-moving. By the time the Pastor would realize he'd been totally had by the Islamic fibber, the attention-getting date of 9/11 would be past, and the Muslims could have a big group laugh at his expense.

Did you ever notice how bland and half-smiling these slimy imams are as they deliver their stern-but-necessary medicine to us kuffars that they are going to teach us tolerance whether we want to learn it or not, since America so desperately needs to learn tolerance? Their eyes do not EVER match their half-smiles. Notice that next time you have the misfortune to gaze upon one of their well-groomed insincere visages: you'll see dead(ly) eyes boring holes through you.

You'll feel a chill when you grasp that look. It is ALWAYS there.

Now, for our newest posters and readers, a brief, lucid and scholarly article, by Coptic-American scholar Raymond Ibrahim (Mr Ibrahim being, I would emphasise, fluent in Arabic and able to consult texts that have not been translated into English) on the subject of Islam and lying.

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

"How Taqiyya Alters Islam's Rules of War: Defeating Jihadist Terrorism," Middle East Quarterly, Winter 2010.

I say to all new readers and posters - READ Mr Ibrahim's article. Then read it, and re-read it, and think about it.

Bookmark it.

Print it off and give copies to everybody with whom you discuss Islam; but especially to politicians, police officers, and members of the clergy; to everyone who may have to have dealings with plausibly-smiling imams in white robes and doe-eyed Muslimas in oh-so-demure hijab.

(You may also like to try tracking down another article by Mr Ibrahim on the same topic, 'Islam's Doctrines of Deception', that appeared two years ago, in 'Jane's Islamic Affairs Analyst' ['Jane's being *the* Jane's, bible of all things military], 26 September 2008 - this one cannot be read online, it must be looked for in any library that carries that particular journal).

Pastor Jones,you are a naive man.What else did you expect?