In "What Would Jesus Do with a Qur'an? Actually, He Might Burn It," September 10, Tim Furnish details some of the crazy and violent reactions to the prospect of Qur'an-burning, and concludes:
These over-the-top screeds of victimization are making Reverend Jones appear more and more sympathetic. Burning a Qur'an is "tantamount to war?!" Doing so would "humiliate" 1.5 billion people? Jones is a "criminal" and "liar?" At this point, one could argue that Jones should go through with the burning of some Qur'ans just to demonstrate that 1) an American has First Amendment rights independent of threats and rent-a-mobs in the Middle East and South Asia; and 2) a Christian does not have to abide by the politically correct shibboleth that the Qur'an is a holy book. Most media analysts do not give this second point the justice it deserves, bending over backwards as they do (almost as far as the Obama Administration) to present the Islamic perspective in a positive light.As a Christian, I do not accept that Muhammad received revelation from God, for many reasons (most of which would require a separate, and much longer, column), most saliently that he and his "revelation" deny (in Sura 4:157) the key doctrine of my, and 2.3 billion other Christians', faith: the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, to atone for the entire human race's sins. That does not mean Christians should run out to buy a Qur'an and toss it into the fireplace--but neither does it mean that we have to pay Muslim-mandated obeisance to its alleged "holiness," either.
And contra the alleged "hate-mongering" of conservative radio, I have heard a number of AM talk show hosts, and their callers, the past few days disparaging Reverend Jones for his "un-Christ-like" attitude--stating for certain that "Jesus would never burn a Qur'an." Actually, since it denies the key element of His role in the universe--His crucifixion and resurrection--I think He might very well approve of burning at least THAT part of the Qur'an; I also doubt that Jesus would have any problem with consigning to the flames the ayahs in Islamic scriptures that mandate attacking non-Muslims (Surah 9:5ff), beheading them (Surah 47:3 and 8:12) and beating one's wives (Surah 4:34)--just to name a few of the more egregious passages. Furthermore, Jesus cursed and killed a fig tree that was not bearing fruit (Matthew 21:18ff; Mark 11:12ff) and ran money-lenders out of the Temple with a whip (John 2:15)--so, as G.K. Chesterton ably points out in The Everlasting Man (pp. 190-91), the "meek and mild Jesus" of popular imagination is NOT the only facet of His personality. Reverend Terry Jones is certainly not Jesus, but even a fundamentalist Pentecostal clock is right twice a day.
The proof that imam Musri was the one who lied is that he was standing next to the pastor when the pastor said that he had called off the Koran burning because there was an agreement to move the GZ mosque. At no time during the press conference on camera did imam Musri deny what the pastor was saying.
I am generally opposed to book burning, but in the current climate, burning the Koran may be the most powerful expression of free speech by any human being on the planet.
I think you have to admit that the pastor (who may be uncultured in lots of ways) has handled this brilliantly. Without any budget, and with a congregation of less than 50 of whom often only a dozen show up at church, he has brought the attention of the entire world on the key point of contention in the debate over Islam: is free speech more important than religious sentiments?
If he proceeds with the Koran burning on 9/11, that will overshadow anything else that happens at Ground Zero, no matter how many flags are waved and how many tears shed.
Fighting in the moral plane is very, very, very tough. Who would have thought that an uncultured person like this pastor would become the most effective combatant?
I think Mr. Spencer may wish to re-read my prior posts. There is very little time left to engage the debate with full force.
Burn, ridicule, mock and above all make known what is within this truly evil 7th century Mein Kampf. Islam is not 'another religion' it is a blasphemous and truly evil heresy of the Church. Look at Father Zakarias broadcasting to 60 million Muslims the most outlandish and revolting details of the venerated Koran and Hadith. He has made millions of secret Christian converts out of Muslims. His fearless mockery combined with his unabashed love of Muslims as human beings makes burning a few Korans seem mild. Nothing will work anymore except the most emphatic NO to the loveless and mindless cult of death.
Imam Obama get the hell out of the White House! Pastor Jones for President!
What I am continuously reminded is that in the Islamic World all other religions of the world simply don't count, they are considered corrupted one way or another. Mohamed said that the Jews corrupted the Bible while at the same time revering Jesus Christ and his Mother Mary. Even though he could only possibly know the story of Jesus's short ministry through the bible written by Jews. When reading the Quran it appears clear that Mohamed read, or at least was taught about the New Testament of Jesus Christ (he was Believed to be illiterate)
To give his new religion stronger credibility he and his followers had to discredit Christianity by calling it corrupted by the Jews. Mohamed like so many warriors of the past was not just satisfied with that of course. After 13 years in Mecca and conducting a relatively peaceful practice with his small group of followers as he spoke of the words told to him by the Angel Gabriel he then moved onto Medina. It was in his last 7 years there that he became a raider of caravans and as he grew his army he began to pillage,rape,in slave and murder others, all in the name of his Allah. He even adopted many paganistic practices to win favors with other Arab tribes. This is the man who Muslims consider his words pure and who spoke the words given by Allah for all time.
If this was a God that I would be asked to follow then he is a God of Hate, and of violence, and a god of oppression.
For me I find such a god to be a completely false God.
''even a . . Pentacostal clock is right twice a day. . .''. Love it. Somehow rhymes in an tangental way with the Petrosiatic 'rock of offence, a stone of stumbling'.
Allah is not God, he demands human sacrifice
"Allah cannot be the same as the Judeo-Christian God, because God forbade human sacrifice when Abraham tried to sacrifice Isaac. There are also warnings in the Old Testament about a moon-demon called Moloch who demands human sacrifice.
This dedication of the slaughtered kafirs to Allah occurs again and again in Islamic attacks. The Fort Hood shooter shouted 'Allahu Akbar' as he opened fire. [again 'Allah' is mistransalted as 'God']
Note also in the following videos how the congregation shout 'Allahu Akbar' as the Kafir's blood begins to flow [do not view unless you have a strong stomach].
Jihad Snuff Videos
These are typical of the ' jihad snuff' videos being shown in mosques referred to in the Guardian article.
As with many primitive peoples it is the shedding of blood that gets them excited. The blood is seen as a libation to Allah. To quote the eminent Islamic theologian Abu Hamza al-Masri "There is no liquid loved by Allah more than the liquid of blood" "Whether you do it by the lamb, or you do it by a Serb, you do it by a Jew, you do it by any enemies of Allah," he said. That drop of blood "is very dear."
So whereas Christians give offerings of fruit at harvest festivals, [...] the jihadists give offerings of human blood and shattered body parts to their stone age tribal totem." http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/satanic-islam-allah-moloch-demands.html
This hysteria on the part of muslims over the threatened burning of a copy of the koran is utterly ridiculous and pathetic, also, as has been pointed out many times by contributors to this website, bibles, crosses, and other religious symbols have been burned by muslims without threats from christians, or jews, or indeed, from Presidents, or William Hague( who is a pusillanimous tosser). The governments of almost everywhere in the still 'free' West are all rushing to placate these maniacs (with the honourable exception of Italy). The media vilifies this pastor, but doesn't utter a squeak about the insults carried out against xtianity and other faiths by muslims. So, WHY ?? I just don't understand it - they are all cringing and wringing their hands over muslim 'sensitivities', and couldn't give a damn about our own. I've written to Hague, who is, alas, the Foreign Secretary of Britain, stating more or less what I've said above, adding how contemptible I think his stand is, and that I think our coalition government is utterly cowardly for giving into this nonsense, but shan't hold my breath waiting for a reply. I really can't think WHY they are taking this attitude - I'm new to this site, and am only lately beginning to understand the islamic threat, so could somebody please explain to me ?
From what I've seen of today's MSM, they all seem to be completely ignoring the freedom of expression side of things - I've seen Islamic spokesmen have free reign in saying how appalling it is that this single pastor might be responsible for world-wide violence and possibly many deaths - a view also echoed by the news commentators, politicians, and other faith leaders. The world is going to hell in a hand basket...
Yes, burning books is wrong. But...
Threats of violence and crimes of violence and murder are far worse than burning bits of your own, legally owned, ink and paper; an act that is fully allowed in an, allegedly, free society.
Wise up, everyone. This no'count peckerwood preacher is a publicity hound whose success is due entirely to the mainstream media's desire to make the Counterjihad movement look like a bunch of knuckle-dragging bigots. Thus, they take this jerk and parade him before the world, leaving our somber SIOA/FDI rally on Sept. 11 unheralded and unmentioned. ABC even offered to fly him up to New York this weeken; what does that tell you? Terry Jones is no friend of ours, his hostility toward Islam notwithstanding.
I too am becoming somewhat sympathetic to the entire "burn-the-Koran" initiative. In principle I'm against all book burning (but could I be if it were a book which touted the merits of kiddie pornography and with illustrations?), because it smacks of ignorance and fascism, but my revulsion towards Muslim threats of violence supersedes any book-burning objections I have. In the final analysis, burning a book is certainly a lesser offense than harming or killing someone for burning a book. Again, the Muslim mindset pushes reason and decorum to their limits and almost begs for an exception to rules of all kinds, such as continuing to allow freedom of religion for a religion which itself crushes freeedom and denies it to others whenever it gets the opportunity. Hmmm. Could be lookin' for a Koran soon while at the same time I'm lookin' for a pack of matches. Damn Islam for being what it is.
all jihadwatchers,
this was the topic live on phone-in debate
national radio bbc 5live
nicky campbell 9am
(available to listen to, for 7days on bbc iplayer)
the usual suspects, mus.forum etc.
BUT did not go as the biased broad casting corp
expected,
as usual,shoehorned in first
mus forum/ another of the er! "offended",
but things change, as someone immediately
takes them to task.
puts the spineless, US Gov sheningans, throughout the rest of the day, into sharp focus, shame SHAME on them
The 164 Jihad Verses in the Koran:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html
I really can't think WHY they are taking this attitude - I'm new to this site, and am only lately beginning to understand the islamic threat, so could somebody please explain to me ?
A good place to start would be...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html
Fundamentally, Islam is superior and everyone else is to be dhimmified - that is, subjugated to Islam and made to feel inferior. Unbelievers cannot be seen to be mocking Allah, his prophet or his holy book. There is no toleration for that at all in Islam; much of it based on Mohammed's own sayings.
Furnish rightly holds up the crucifixion and resurrection as key elements of Christian faith (although Koran 4:157 by itself only denies his crucifixion: one must factor in verses 158 -- which speaks of Allah whisking Jesus "up" to him (one assumes "up" into the sky, perhaps still in the sublunary realm) -- and 159 -- which fairly clearly implies that Jesus will be kept alive, apparently by Allah's power, for all time until the Day of Resurrection), but fails to furnish one would think the key quality of Christology: the full divinity along with the full humanity.
This crux in orthodox Christology is similarly (though not unambiguously) denied in the Koran -- specifically 9:30, which castigates Christians for saying that Christ is the "Son of God". This isn't necessarily a direct confutation of orthodox Christology, unless it reflects the knowledge possessed by the writer(s) of the Koran that the epithet "Son of God" indeed means "divine". Given the garbled nonsense elsewhere throughout the Koran, this seems a stretch; but I suppose it's possible. There is also 9:31, which castigates Christians for considering Christ a "lord" alongside God -- a similarly ambiguous condemnation, since "lord" doesn't necessarily mean full divinity. It is entirely possible, given the prickly hairtrigger fanatically hypersensitive Shirkophobia of Muslims, that anything that even remotely resembles a participation in the divinity of God becomes verboten -- and thus one needn't even go as far as to advocate orthodox Christology to be damned by Islam as Mushrik.
At any rate, just have a conversation with any given Muslim about the divinity of Jesus, and it will become crystal clear within minutes that they vehemently oppose such a belief. One supposes that the Hadiths have ample, and clearer, condemnations of it than does the Koran.
Well, I'm thinking about it...
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jnhrWvJN6BnAHJ7O4AAZwpYCplFA
I am with Wellington in the fact that I am generally opposed to book burning. That being said, after initial opposition to the Terry Jones book burning I have changed my opinion. It seems that muslim reaction has enlightened even more people. Muslims are their own worst enemy and the more they behave when crapan burning and the like happen the more people will see them for who, and what, they truly are.
I am of the opinion that more non-muslim people will die before there is truly a thorough and complete understanding by non-muslims of what the crapan, and islam, is really all about. The more these muslim idiots act in an islamic manner the sooner the awakening will happen and hence fewer people will die due to islamic violence over the long haul.
Jesus knew evil when he saw it. He repudiated Satan. Remember? He drove the money changers out of the temple.
He might very well have at least trod the Koran under foot.
As a divine person he could foresee the misery it would cause.
Papa Whiskey,
In the short run, you might be correct about the MSM strategy. I suspect, however, that these pyrophobic antics of theirs will, in the long run, prove to be only a Pyrrhic victory for them. What they fail to account for is the slow, but inexorable snowball effect of the reawakening of the West. As with most reawakenings and other great transitions in history, its progress will likely not unfold without aggressive measures, bold stands, and defiantly "incorrect" language and behaviors -- some of which at the time, if seen only from the delimited perspective of the moment, may seem too crude -- on the part of the growing nucleus of people who personify this sea change in Western consciousness. The Suffragette movement took time, and had real results: along the way, defiant women did things like vandalize post office boxes by pouring marmalade into them. At the time, even supporters of the movement might have recoiled and said that was foolish and counter-productive. But was it? Was it not one small part of the defiance necessary to break the mold?
Actually, I didn't mean why are the MUSLIMS taking this attitude ( I understand that bit !) - I meant our elected representatives, and the media, who are all to a man focusing on how 'dangerous' and 'insensitive' and 'irresponsible' this action would be, but make no comment on the horrors of muslim violence, and fail to underline the fact that other religions' symbols have been insulted by MUSLIMS, without repercussions, and certainly no pleas from President Obama or the British Foreign Secretary directed towards MUSLIMS that what they are doing is 'dangerous', 'insensitive', or 'irresponsible'.
The ordinary news viewer must, by now, think that the book burning event is taking place on the site where the Twin Towers once stood. The 9/11 rally is to witness this book burning. Robert is the book burner. Don't underestimate the power of ignorance. Since the news media understands ignorance and has set the stage for this false conclusion why not just burn a book anyway, because people will think that you are the one who is doing it? It is already too late to alter this first impression. Pastor Jones' antics are suffocating SIOA's news oxygen, and SIOA's message. Maybe you can negotiate with Pastor Jones and get him to pin a date on his book burning event so that SOIA can host a rally on any other date, to avoid public confusion, and to deny the news propagandists the opportunity to mix things up in one news cycle. Or, tell Jones to burn his book on the 10th, Friday, timed to coincide with Friday prayers, and get it over and done with so that the news oxygen can return to the SIOA rally, where (I assume) book burning will NOT take place.
OT: it being 9/11 tomorrow we are all a bit tense.
A man from Luxembourg has been lying on the ground in a Copenhagen park for hours while police are trying to remove a mysterious belt per remote control. He fled lightly injured from a hotel, following a minor explosion in his room.
http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article/33479533/
Anyone who elevates the Qur'an to a sacred level, has not read it.
http://newstime.co.nz/brainwashing-cnn-pastor-terry-jones.html
Brainwashing & Pedophile Apologist (65:4) broadcaster CNN
vs. Pastor Terry Jones
Anderson Cooper, read the Quran, the declaration of open-ended war against the Infidelds (kuffar) 8:39 “…and religion shoud be only for Allah”
ISLAM WILL DOMINATE THE WORLD
Yes, but WHY does mainstream media want the counter-jihad movement to look like a bunch of knuckle dragging bigots ?
Consider too that Winston Churchill was a pyriah when he was warning the West of Hitler and the Nazi Socialist rise to power. He was "out in the woods" so to speak as the appeasers all tripped over themselves trying to appease Hitler and his demands. When it became apparent what Hitler really demanded and people woke up to that fact, Churchill was proven right.
If you get the chance read the book "The Gathering Storm" by Winston Churchill himself. You will see many similiarities to our present situation. It is an eye opener to say the least.
I don't think anyone can speak for Jesus and tell us what he would have done.
However, I can tell you what I would have done.
I would not have been so stupid as to believe any Muslim without checking.
Islam is well known for urging lying as a way to advance one's aims.
They basically say that it's fine to lie to infidels. We are not full human beings so who the hell cares least of all Allah.
The pastor believed imams who never had any intention to change the place of the mosque.They were simply getting him to do what they wanted so they could get even more publicity for their Jihad mosque at Ground Zero.
Islam also teaches that not only can one never tear down a mosque and put up any other building but that one cannot even buy land for a mosque and then change your mind.
From their point of view, they are now 100% committed to building their mosque where they say it should be, easily visible for eternity from the graves of our Muslim Pearl Harbor, the site of 3,000 Americans who died at the hand of Islam.
And the whole damn Muslim world of 1.3 billion morons will support them to their death in this.
What to do?
First step:
Go to the rally on Saturday, 3 pm, 11 Sept., at 51 Park Place, intersection Church St and West Broadway.
Ignore the naysayers and media who will demonize us.
Just do it.
Oh, if you do have a Koran, don't burn it at our rally. We will not allow signs. Just American flags.
Come and meet some nice people who you will enjoy, hear the great speakers (Robert, Pamela, Geert Wilders, etc.)
Next step?
Stay tuned.
These idiots are in for some very big surprises.
http://www.jewishdailyreport.wordpress.com
I'd sure be happy if news readers would stop referring to the Qur'an as "The Holy Qur'an" and Mohamed as "Prophet Mohamed." As for the burning of the book, if it's holy, they're idolaters.
I strongly disagree with this article's main justification for Koran burning.
Koran burning can only be justified, if justified, upon the fact that it is the main book upon which rests an agressive totalitarian and coercive ideology, and surely not on the fact that it contradicts the litteral exclusive christian doctrine.
Deeming it acceptable to burn books that don't accept the christian mystical narrative, that is that Jesus has resurrected and his death constituted atonement for the entire human race's sins, is condoning the burning all non-christian religious books as well as most philosophical and scientific books from deists, agnostics and atheists. In other words it is adopting the exact same behavior than muslims.
Then again, christians are on the same line of thought than muslims, while not on the same line of behavior, considering non-christians as infidels on the road to Hell. Christianity will need to reform this huge superstitious flaw that casts disgrace upon Jesus himself in linking his character with such an awful and immoral absurdity.
Papa Whiskey
Your focus lies exclusively on Pastor Terry Jones as an attention seeker.
Please separate the messenger (Jones) from the message (Islam is evil).
The MSM may be consumed with Jones (the same media who ignored Rev. Wright and Farrakhan). "Conservatives" like Sarah Palin and others condemn the act as provocative.
But it's not the act these posers disagree with, IT'S THE RESPONSE. The response is to be expected and feared, because the last 9 years have proven we are afraid of the enemy, we cannot defeat them, and we won't even try to defeat them.
Koran burning craze gathers momentum:
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=13129871
http://www.ocala.com/article/20100909/ARTICLES/100909743/1412?Title=Westboro-Baptish-Church-to-burn-Qurans-if-Dove-doesn-t
http://www.wyomingnews.com/articles/2010/09/09/news/18local_09-09-10.txt
But please, please do not flush any part of the Koran down the toilet!
Hesperado,
Here's a hadith in which the divinity of Jesus is quashed; after all, if Jesus is beneath Muhammad, and Muhammad is always affirmed by Muslims to be only a man (though the best of men), it follows: Jesus is only a man, and not even the best.
IN CORE ISLAMIC TEXTS, MUHAMMAD PLACES HIMSELF ABOVE JESUS AND VARIOUS BIBLICAL FIGURES
Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:
Volume 6, Book 60, Number 3
Narrated Anas:
The Prophet said, "On the Day of Resurrection the Believers will assemble and say, 'Let us ask somebody to intercede for us with our Lord.' So they will go to Adam and say, 'You are the father of all the people, and Allah created you with His Own Hands, and ordered the angels to prostrate to you, and taught you the names of all things; so please intercede for us with your Lord, so that He may relieve us from this place of ours.' Adam will say, 'I am not fit for this (i.e. intercession for you).' Then Adam will remember his sin and feel ashamed thereof. He will say, 'Go to Noah, for he was the first Apostle, Allah sent to the inhabitants of the earth.' They will go to him and Noah will say,
'I am not fit for this undertaking.' He will remember his appeal to his Lord to do what he had no knowledge of, then he will feel ashamed thereof and will say, 'Go to the Khalil--r-Rahman (i.e. Abraham).' They will go to him and he will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking. Go to Moses, the slave to whom Allah spoke (directly) and gave him the Torah .' So they will go to him and he will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking.' and he will mention (his) killing a person who was not a killer, and so he will feel ashamed thereof before his Lord, and he will say, 'Go to Jesus, Allah's Slave, His Apostle and Allah's Word and a Spirit coming from Him. Jesus will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking, go to Muhammad the Slave of Allah whose past and future sins were forgiven by Allah.' So they will come to me and I will proceed till I will ask my Lord's Permission and I will be given permission. When I see my Lord, I will fall down in Prostration and He will let me remain in that state as long as He wishes and then I will be addressed.' (Muhammad!) Raise your head. Ask, and your request will be granted; say, and your saying will be listened to; intercede, and your intercession will be accepted.' I will raise my head and praise Allah with a saying (i.e. invocation) He will teach me, and then I will intercede. He will fix a limit for me (to intercede for) whom I will admit into Paradise. Then I will come back again to Allah, and when I see my Lord, the same thing will happen to me. And then I will intercede and Allah will fix a limit for me to intercede whom I will let into Paradise, then I will come back for the third time; and then I will come back for the fourth time, and will say, 'None remains in Hell but those whom the Quran has imprisoned (in Hell) and who have been destined to an eternal stay in Hell.' " (The compiler) Abu 'Abdullah said: 'But those whom the Qur'an has imprisoned in Hell,' refers to the Statement of Allah:
"They will dwell therein forever." (16.29)
Why are we always compelled to be concerned about the sensitivities of the Muslim world? They never capitulate in kind, in fact it is always about them and how they feel, It has in fact always been about them. There is no tolerance for anything Christian or Jewish in the Muslim world and yet us non Muslims,kafirs,infidels,Etc. still cater to everyone of their needs.
The hypocrisy is overwhelming, no matter what we do they hate us anyway. Even this morning an Afghani running for office in Afghanistan yelled to his potential voters: “Wherever Americans Are Seen in The World, They Will Be Killed”…and yet the beat still goes on.
Then we have the threats put out by Iman Rauf, indirect or not towards America if he doesn't get his Mosque so he can make his grand statement to the rest of the umma,America and any sensitivity be dammed of course no matter what this master of taquiya, and kitman says.. Iman Rauf wrote this on February 27, 1979, he criticized Americans for failing to apologize to Iran for past misdeeds. Rauf also added that “the revolution in Iran was inspired by the very principles of individual rights and freedom that Americans ardently believes in.” And you want to trust this man? Again this is a man who refused to condemn Hamas except for political expedience purposes. Hamas who attacked Catholic churches and their convents and destroyed bibles and crosses after winning an election in the Gaza area, but hardly a peep from the international community.
How much more appeasement can we direct towards this archaic,paganistic religion? In the fundamental world of Islam Christians,Jews, and all other Religions are ordered to either to convert or die,or be subjugated and pay the jizya tax. No where in the Islamic world can you build a church or a synagogue and yet they demand even in the lands occupied by Christians, that they will take us over when they grow stronger in numbers. This is happening in the EU Countries daily.
Do you want to see a microcosm of this occurring in America? Go to, and read about the City of Dearborn,Michigan as it slowly becomes more sharia compliant--our Constitution apparently be dammed.
Arthur
Not just attention of the world - Pastor Jones on his own has brought the whole Liberal establishment church of the West, screaming for his blood.
Isn't it interesting that just one man, has shaken the ground of this formidable church of Liberalism, backed by the entire media and all the politicians of the West. If one pastor can do this, it shows how fragile this Liberal PC church is.
More than acting as a Christian, Mr. Terry Jones is acting like a MAN, and a HUMAN, in the face of the fascism, humiliation and terror that we experience every day from Islam and Muslims. By simply burning a book, like throwing a little water on the wicked witch, he is standing up to the Islamic bully, defending the assaulted, and calling out the Muslim liars and non-Muslim effete pansies who rather "switch than fight." Jones said he is taking a stand against the intimidationism and coercion radiating from Muslims as a whole. The same tactics that have forced on us a narrative that a cheap copy of their book is of greater value than our actual lives.
Seems to me 9/11 families with members dead by Islam should post groups everyday in front of mosques demanding imams denounce jihad, death to apostate laws, dhimmi laws, jizya tax, takiya, and all the hell that spawns from sharia. Every day imams continue to act like fascist plantation owners claiming 1.5 billion Muslim slaves and sending search parties to hunt and kill escapees or threaten to enslave neighbors, is a good day to burn their book. When they get around to reforming, and they will with our insistence, the problem, which the Bahais figured out about Islam in the 1800s, is that in Islam, "there is no there, there."
Muhammad was an illiterate, a pedophile mass murderer
e.g. Battle of Banu Quraiza of his 76 attacks against Pagan and Jewish tribes), who married the little child Aisha (6 years) and raped her with only 8 years when the dirty old man was 54 years, and Aisha still plays after the intercourse with dolls (girls in puberty don't play with dolls)
Muhammad calls himself "the excellent example" (33:21) to follow for all times ... DISGUSTING
As long as we in the US can burn Korans publicly it can still be stated that Islam does not rule here. Therefore, the Koran should be burned publicly every Friday, the day of the weekly Muslim hate sermon in so many mosques worldwide. When we can no longer burn Korans in public it will be a sign that Islam has triumphed and the US Constitution has been eclipsed.
I have a better idea than simply burning this unholy rag.
Have each of Mackie's 164 jihadist verses printed on a single sheet of paper.
Have each church member read aloud a verse, denounce it, and then set it ablaze. This church reportedly has 50 members, so that's three verses per member -- a moderate workload.
At the end, invite "moderate" muslims and islamophiliacs to do the same. Call those who will not, liars and hypocrites.
RSI
Rather than set fire to that moronic book it might be wiser to recycle its papiermâché and re-deliver it as bog-roll to aid-dererving third-world countries affilicted by Muhamedism and acts-of-allah.
Thanks traeh for that hadith. It doesn't directly reject the divinity of Jesus, but it certainly implies it. However, along with the implication, there is included a curious meme -- viz., the description of Jesus as "Allah's Word and a Spirit coming from Him." Evidently, Muslims incoherently accepted that part of Christology which conceives of Christ as being the eternal pre-existing Logos (Word) gennetos (begotten, or "coming from" the Father) -- though they didn't have to and could have simply rejected it, and should have, if they really wanted to avoid any contamination with Trinitarian symbolism and its implications of shirk.
Recommended article for today by Michelle Malkin
"The Eternal Flame of Muslim Outrage"
http://townhall.com/columnists/MichelleMalkin/2010/09/10/the_eternal_flame_of_muslim_outrage
The Paster is not done yet, he has made a challenge for the Iman to call him in 2 hours, or?
breaking, BBC News England
Jesus in the Gospels DID WARN Christians about "false prophets" with their misleading teachings to Christian believers in the future. I do sense HE KNEW in a few centuries time about Muhammed and Islam down the road.
This is all so far.
Is anyone else getting any news?
BREAKING NEWS:
Florida church behind Koran-burning threat sets two-hour deadline for imam involved in New York mosque to make contact
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/
I predict many burning korans will appear on YouTube (until they are removed by admin) and LiveLeak starting this 9/11.
Sky News UK has the live take here
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Koran-Burning-Pastor-Terry-Jones-Gives-Two-Hour-Ultimatum-To-New-York-Imam-Over-Ground-Zero-Mosque/Article/201009215724870?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15724870_Koran-Burning_Pastor_Terry_Jones_Gives_Two-Hour_Ultimatum_To_New_York_Imam_Over_Ground_Zero_Mosque
I am of the opinion that more non-muslim people will die before there is truly a thorough and complete understanding by non-muslims of what the crapan, and islam, is really all about. The more these muslim idiots act in an islamic manner the sooner the awakening will happen and hence fewer people will die due to islamic violence over the long haul.
I agree with you, American Infidel. This is not the Middle Ages where it would take months for news of Muslim atrocities to reach us. Today, we can know this with the click of a button. Let them show their true colors, which they do obligingly every day to show how violent and despicable they can be, and the world learns. Watch and learn, this will save lives over the long haul.
I agree with Furbish. We MUST burn Qurans now just to show we will not abrogate our rights because of so-called Muslim "sensitivity." And, let's face it, the clash of America and Islam is inevitable, just as it has been inevitable for Islam to clash against everything non-Muslim. Better we fight this war sooner rather than later.
Is the US networks in lock down over the Pastors challenge?
Has someone pulled the plug?
Its dont smell right, we have it covered in UK and nothing in the US up to this time, strange.
"Burning a Qur'an is "tantamount to war?!" Doing so would "humiliate" 1.5 billion people? Jones is a "criminal" and "liar?" -- headline
Typical mohammedan hyperbole. And it's high time that 1.5 billion people suffered humiliation by facing the truth about muhammad AND the quran. Hey, once muslims realize that muhammad was the ultimate liar and the chief criminal of all time, then they too will burn qurans by the ten of thousands. Aw, the joys of wishful thinking ...
Well ...this Pastor has been inspirational .....wow. .....this pastor is my hero ...believe ...me ......this pastor is something ...imagine .....unlike ..imam Faisal ..with all the support ............WOW PASTOR .......I LOVE U ...........B E A U T I F U L ...........you are a TRUE LION-HEART ..................God will 100% bless you ...
I agree with you wholeheartedly. We should poke more fun at these oh-so sensitive Muslim darlings and their totems. People often claim that Islam is just another monotheism, the offspring of Judaism and Christianity. However, unlike Christianity which contains the Torah in the form of the Old Testament, the Qur’an completely rejects the texts of these two faiths and substitutes its own ill-written, repetitious blood-curdling verse in their stead. To compare the Qur’an to the Bible is rather like comparing Wuthering Heights to a Mills and Boon romance written by some mediocre hack writer: the former may be well written and provide a few basic ideas for a plot, but the latter is purely derivative and tiresome to read.
Alas, the following is not a joke: a Facebook campaign called 'Wear a Hijab Day'. The organiser claims that this act of craven dhimmitude is an expression of solidarity with Muslims following the threatened Qur’an burning. Apparently, 6,000 dhimmi women in the US have already signed up to wear the hijab: http://durotrigan.blogspot.com/2010/09/wear-hijab-day-instance-of-stockholm.html
Fear.
Hesperado, I only scanned that hadith and didn't notice the lines about the Word and Spirit. That also appears in a few other places in Islamic texts, I think. I suppose they simply adopted some terminology from the Bible, without understanding the Logos-meaning.
There's also this:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 63, Number 209:
do me favor who ever you are" as christain i do not believe...."
dont bring your religous BS into this mix. your religion christainty and judaism to that matter are no good either. the only differeence and I have to admit that is a big bigf big difference is rthat Islam has violence attached to it in major way. if this guy wants the burn the koran he has every right to do so. but not in the name of christianty. that is what muslims do. violence in the name of Islam.
m
Apart from the ahadith I've cited, all I see in Bukhari are a number of ahadith that refer to Jesus as Allah's "slave." Hard to reconcile that with Jesus' divinity.
"Yes, but WHY does mainstream media want the counter-jihad movement to look like a bunch of knuckle dragging bigots ?"
I am sure that Hugh could provide a more eloquent answer that would help answer many of your concerns; however, let me try to help as best I can:
The media in this country is locked down by a combination of liberal thinking, taught in most universities for the last thirty years; an unwillingness to "rock the boat" by reporting on anything controversial; and increasingly, by significant ownership positions taken by OIC money (Fox, etc.).
The counter-jihad movement is commonly perceived to be composed of right-wing Republicans and supporters of reactionary policies.
This is far from accurate, however, the stereotyping fits in neatly to most liberals world-view that places them on a higher moral plane in which ecumenity, moral equivalence and multiculturalism are good things, rather than the harbingers of doom to our way of life that we know them to be.
The fact that our "liberal" leadership has taken far more steps to reduce or limit our Constitutional freedoms than any other ever does not seem to matter. Apparently, it's okay that we have Czars that are Communists, Anarchists, radicals, etc. Thats just Chicago-style paying off of accounts and after all, we need diversity.
YouTube pulls video of Muslims burning Christans alive
http://savageinfidel.blogspot.com/2010/09/christians-are-burned-alive-by-muslims.html
In May 2009 US military burned Bibles in Afghanistan
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1160612
Were was the US Government's collective voice when Christans were BURNED ALIVE? That, a branch of the Armed Services, willfully burned a Holy Book? The Koran has a few unkind words for hypocrites. If Mohammad's Family wants to take issue with our Hypocrite-In-Chief I won't stand in your way. I could use a useful idiot or two in this instance.
jan
You wonder why the west takes the muslim side ?
Because they've done a deal with the powerful arabs ..
as far as I know ,the deal is ............
we take in a lot of muslims into Europe , we pay for their training to do the jobs they are not educated to do , we don't critices islam etc. etc.
In return we get some ( I'm not sure how much ) control over the oil
Not a very good deal for us
Look up this website .....euro arab dialogue / eurabia
Look up Gates of Vienna and read essays by Fjordman and Baron Bodissey
"What Would Jesus Do with a Qur'an? Actually, He Might Burn It,"
WWJD? Well, I am inclined to agree with Tim, especially since Jesus has already sent this false prophet muhammad into the lake of fire.
jan
I was explaining about Europe .
America I don't know exactly but there are a lot of powerful people who are taking arab money
One constant thread in this Qur'an burning issue involved the talking heads and the news readers, on both cable and airwave television programs.
With 9/11 as the big picture backdrop, most of them (while parroting the bogus notions of 'radical' Islam, Muslim 'radicals', Muslim 'extremists', and the always undefined 'perversion of the faith'--as Barry O did several times this morning--) expressed their personal horror at the thought of burning a few copies of what they steadfastly refuse to acknowledgs is the 'Holy book' not only of those 'moderate' Musims they so revere, but of EVERY Muslim on the planet-- radicals and extremists alike--and their personal disgust with the redneck pastor and anyone else of his ilk who would do such an awful thing.
*Do they ever wonder what those extremists are being extreme about, exactly?
It appears, nine years after that attack, that far too many of them simply cannot bring themselves to accept that it is that very book those radicals and extremists cite--every time--as the driving force for their violent actions.
It is also clear that most of them have never read a Qur'an and have no idea that it is many of those very passages--from that oh, so Holy book which make Islam the antithesis of democracy that it is, and which makes it incompatible with the U.S. Constitution.
Of particular note is the assertion that we non-Muslims should not burn a Qur'an because to do so disrespects the good Muslims, those moderate Muslims, and injures their sensibilities.
The truth be known, that is precisely what needs to be done.
When one realizes that every adult Muslim in this country--despite their lawfully protected right to leave it--has personally chosen to retain their membership in an ideology that they know commands the amputation of thieves' hands, killing apostates, flogging adulterers, wife beating, and a variety of other teachings that have no place here or any other in the 21st century, no sane person would even think such people deserve respect.
"Wise up, everyone. This no'count peckerwood preacher is a publicity hound whose success is due entirely to the mainstream media's desire to make the Counter-jihad movement look like a bunch of knuckle-dragging bigots."
Disagree, Jones has got a spine and I applaud his efforts.
He's not anything you said above. He's not a "jerk," either.
He's a brave and courageous individual who clearly sees the evil of Islam, and is taking a stand against it.
Couldn't care less what the lamestream media thinks. They're the jerks.
"Well ...this Pastor has been inspirational .....wow. .....this pastor is my hero ...believe ...me ......this pastor is something ...imagine .....unlike ..imam Faisal ..with all the support ............WOW PASTOR .......I LOVE U ...........B E A U T I F U L ...........you are a TRUE LION-HEART ..................God will 100% bless you ..."
Agree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-HIQQMUrLc
Hi ... I think this is an important video everyone should see, especially in light of yesterday's events on CNN with the Qur'an burning pastor and Imam Musri. Musri, who claimed to be good friends with Imam Feisal, is the President of the Islamic Society of Florida (ISNA) and (a Brotherhood member, according to Gaubatz) This video was taken in his mosque.
Also of interest is the following article from Aug 30 2010
http://www.redcounty.com/content/charlie-crist-linked-imam-who-helped-fund-hamas
The Florida governor and candidate for Senator may be linked up with them, as well.
Hesperado
Qur'an 4:171
O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
ptember 10, 2010 10:42 AM | Reply
Sky News UK has the live take here
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Koran-Burning-Pastor-Terry-Jones-Gives-Two-Hour-Ultimatum-To-New-York-Imam-Over-Ground-Zero-Mosque/Article/201009215724870?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15724870_Koran-Burning_Pastor_Terry_Jones_Gives_Two-Hour_Ultimatum_To_New_York_Imam_Over_Ground_Zero_Mosque
Would someone tell me that you have seen this on the US networks this which is from SKY News. About the Pastor giving the Iman 2 hours to get back to him. Thanks
Hesperado,
Here we see the apparently not so infallible "Allah" referring to what he thinks Christians mean by the Trinity: God, Jesus, and Mary. We also see Jesus in this Qur'an verse clearly denying his own divinity.This seems pretty definitive:
"He's a brave and courageous individual who clearly sees the evil of Islam, and is taking a stand against it.
Couldn't care less what the lamestream media thinks. They're the jerks."
I wholly agree, Courreges W ...
http://newstime.co.nz/pastor-terry-jones-dont-do-it.html
Pastor Dr. Manning "Pastor Terry Jones, don't do it"
I sense we're at a tipping point when further attempts here in America to validate Islam as a religion that should be respected will fall on more and more deaf ears with each passing month. Last night on Thursday Night Football (Saints v. Vikings), the two announcers, Al Michaels and Chris Collinsworth, tripped over themselves praising the toughness of a Vikings player who is a Muslim and who fasted during the daylight hours during Ramadan even though he was practicing and playing football. Oh, how difficult it would be both opined not to even be able to drink water and oh how they couldn't do it but he did. It was nauseating to listen to this and I had to wonder how many watching this game felt the same as I did. Certainly far more than would have been the case had this occurred ten years ago.
As I said, I sense a tipping point. People are being told by the PC/MC elites rubbish where Muslims are concerned and they ain't listening anymore. We're moving quickly to a vast majority of folks who will simply be fed up with Islam, all of Islam.
It helps to read 5:117, to make sense of 5:116.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-HIQQMUrLc
I think this is an important video everyone should see, especially in light of yesterday's events on CNN with the Qur'an burning pastor and Imam Musri. Musri, who claimed to be good friends with Imam Feisal, is the President of the Islamic Society of Florida (ISNA) and (a Brotherhood member, according to Gaubatz) This video was taken in his mosque.
Also of interest is the following article from Aug 30 2010
http://www.redcounty.com/content/charlie-crist-linked-imam-who-helped-fund-hamas
The Florida governor and candidate for Senator may be linked up with them, as well.
If you havent seen this by now, the MSM are in lockdown in the USA.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Koran-Burning-Pastor-Terry-Jones-Gives-Two-Hour-Ultimatum-To-New-York-Imam-Over-Ground-Zero-Mosque/Article/201009215724870?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15724870_Koran-Burning_Pastor_Terry_Jones_Gives_Two-Hour_Ultimatum_To_New_York_Imam_Over_Ground_Zero_Mosque
"if this guy wants the burn the koran he has every right to do so. but not in the name of christianty. that is what muslims do. violence in the name of Islam."
Oh please, burning the quran - whether in the name of Christianity, or not - should not be equated with the taking of innocent lives.
If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. - W. Churchill
Hmmm...this event has grown bigger than what it was probably intended to be. The question is, whether this will be the straw that breaks the camels back?
DeeMack, yours brought thid to mind. From then til now and what has changed.
"A quote from an 1899 book by Winston Churchill, "The River War", in which he describes Muslims he apparently observed during Kitchener's campaign in the Sudan"
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient" Rome.
“I really can't think WHY they are taking this attitude - I'm new to this site, and am only lately beginning to understand the Islamic threat, so could somebody please explain to me?”
“Yes, but WHY does mainstream media want the counter-jihad movement to look like a bunch of knuckle dragging bigots ?”
Hello Jan.
I will attempt to provide an answer to your question.
The Main Stream Media (MSM) and the vast majority of the political ‘leadership’ and elites overwhelmingly consist of those who have a particular (in my opinion delusional) belief system: that all ‘religions’ are the same, and deep down all individuals are good, decent, loving etc. This ‘fairy tale’ idealistic view is quite prominent in what would be labeled ‘left wing’ ‘socialist’ thinking. Indeed if one peruses the socialist philosophy from Saint-Simon, Proudhon and of course Marx, it has this consistent element.
While the founding fathers were right in their assertion “all men are created equal”, men do not become ‘equal’ in the evolution of their intellectual, ethical and spiritual development. That this is so, is demonstrated by what we are witnessing this week, and for centuries of history. MORAL DEGENERATES who murder innocents and cause destructive violence because they are ‘offended’!
From a purely biological/genetic point of view we ARE basically created ‘equal’. Our DNA has very little variation among the various different ‘races’. We, as the philosopher John Locke would say, are a ‘tabula rasa’, an ‘empty slate’ and our philosophy of life, our education, our political and religious views, our morality and ethics is something that is put into that empty slate and developed and nurtured with life experience. Though as much as the MSM and the PC MC ‘left twit’ Dhimmis DESPERATELY want to believe the idea that ‘we all are deep, down the same, as ADULTS after so many years of life’ it simply is NOT TRUE!
An individual who has been exposed to and indoctrinated with HATRED is not the same as an individual who has (e.g. exposed to LOVE). Indeed, do we not observe the indoctrination and inculcation of hate in the children of the Palestinians and most other Muslim nations? This hate has to be planted into these children so they can continue the hatred into adulthood. You sow hate then you reap hate.
This observed fact I believe, is the MEANS to ultimately defeat this evil. Recognize that this is a totalitarian political ideology that is based upon hate and stop it’s indoctrination into innocent children. (We here at JW already know this)
Children are not born Muslim. They must be molded and fabricated into Haters.
This MSM and PC MC ‘left twit’ delusional idealism is a result of what they desperately believe the world should be and hence what reality OUGHT to be. (Can’t we all just get along?)
It is a sort of subconscious reaction and ‘wish fulfillment’ that occurs when the conscious mind is exposed to unpleasant truths. Sigmund Freud elaborated this in his writings. Quite simply it is too difficult psychologically to face the ‘cold hard reality’ and accept the truth of some unpleasant facts so it is easier to deny them. The conscious mind sublimates these unpleasant facts into the subconscious mind.
This is what we are witnessing at the present time with the political ‘leaders’, elites and the MSM. It is nothing new! The same psychological mechanism of denial was in evidence in the late 1930’s when most European political ‘leaders’, elites and the MSM of that time totally, viciously discredited anyone who attempted to alert the world to the grave threat of Hitler and Nazism to the world. Winston Churchill himself was vigorously derided.
The price for this ignorance and denial? 100 million dead!!!
As the philosopher Santayana presciently said, “Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it’. How sad, that it appears we are going to suffer the same fate!
Breaking news, major threat to US from enemy within: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/10/strategy-confront-homegrown-terror-security-group-warns/
There is some strange going ons.
Earlier today Robert Spencer was interviewed on Sky News, since then nothing, its been pulled from their site.
I thought he was very clear and he made, I think it might have been Adam Bolton, up his game.
Good luck and love to everybody who will be making tomorrow 9/11 a day which will do honour to all those who have died and been hurt by the dasterdly events which took place 9 years ago.
I shall never forget.
Today Hussein proclaimed "Islam is not the enemy."
Sorry, Hussein - Yes, Islam IS the enemy.
P.S. You're a racist/bigot/hater.
That news is astonishing, not living in the US I took it for granted that you had that base covered. I copied a quote.
"The government has failed to anticipate the danger from homegrown terrorists, some of whom immigrated to the United States, and now faces the most complex set of threats since the Sept. 11 attacks, analysts on an organization headed by the two 9/11 Commission co-chairmen warned Friday"
These over-the-top screeds of victimization are making Reverend Jones appear more and more sympathetic. Burning a Qur'an is "tantamount to war?!" Doing so would "humiliate" 1.5 billion people? Jones is a "criminal" and "liar?"
.................
Yes—Keith Olbermann had one of his frequent pundits on the show—I believe this man is technically some sort of Christian pastor himself—who actually referred to Jones as a *terrorist*—and did so pointedly, and numerous times.
I've noted before that I don't think Jones had the right approach at all, but to call this man a "terrorist" for proposing the bar-b-queing a few paperbacks is grotesque—especially when you have *real* Jihad terrorists threatening to do violence if he acts.
More:
...a Christian does not have to abide by the politically correct shibboleth that the Qur'an is a holy book.
.................
Very true. I read some especially moronic editorial yesterday where the writer opined that pastor Terry Jones, "rather than burning Holy books, should try reading them".
I doubt this pundit has *any idea* what is contained in the Qur'an, and clearly considers it virtually identical to what can be found in the Bible.
Light up a Koran and it will blow your mind. Good name for ciggies.
Hussain may have the football but the pastor has a box of matches and a can of petrol.
how ironic, thats power to the people. Use it or lose it.
The media in this country is locked down by a combination of liberal thinking, taught in most universities for the last thirty years; an unwillingness to "rock the boat" by reporting on anything controversial;
Exactly, dadcito, for the past three or four decades professors had been pushing internationalism and multiculturalism as an antidote to nationalism in order to bring in a hoped for future of world peace. What they got instead was war-like aggressions from Islam. What's wrong with this picture?
Jan, there is much to be learned on this site, and others like it. There is no easy quick answer to why the media is comfortably cozy with the enemy, except that they fear Islam more than they do those who oppose it. Violence is a powerful deterrent to peace when cowards rule.
Again a "sudden jihai syndrom":
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Co-Worker-Calls-Alleged-Shooter-Very-Spiritual-102624529.html
echnaton
http://islaminitsownwords.blogspot.com/
Just a thought....
When folks from Indonesia, the US, France, Germany, etc. etc. go to the hajj, and bring their koran with them, in their own language...exactly WHAT HAPPENS to that book when they enter the country of Saudi Arabia?
WHY don't they riot and burn the saudi flag and murder saudi citizens around the world, or threaten to do so?
Ask one of these phoney imams why this is any different, and watch them squirm and lie and try to spew anything BUT the truth...they will use ANY excuse, or just as easily make one up, to riot and rape and murder in mass because they believe they have the right to do whatever they choose, especially against the kafir.
If you would like to get a flavour as to how the support is here in England, have a read of the comments
Army' of police to keep rival groups separate at Ground Zero 9/11 anniversary demonstrations
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1310881/Police-Ground-Zero-9-11-anniversary-demonstrations-rivals-separate.html#ixzz0zA6IAkOU
No one is "equating" christianity with islam. This is a regular stawman you're using everytime you read criticism of the christian exclusivist doctrine. The existence of some parallels doesn't imply absolute sameness, and violence isn't the whole enchilada. There are non-violent muslims too, does that mean their intent and frame of mind is acceptable ? And again I'm not suggesting that non-violent muslims are striving for the absolute same goal as christians. Nevertheless, there are similarities in the intent to achieve world conversion and a complete disregard for an eventual eradication of other faiths. This is an abomination that only a fanatic isn't able to perceive or recognize.
The burning of that rotten, evil book is a symbol and celebration of its burning in Hell just like lighting candles in Easter is a symbol of hope and celebration of victory of the Good over Evil.
Let thousand kurans burn as brightly on Earth as its author burns in Hell!
And when we run out of kurans let’s print some more and distribute it free to those who can’t afford buying one, but want to join the celebration of its death.
And then let's enjoy the spokesmen for “book-rights” lamenting our descent to “barbarity”.
Oh, come on. Okay, so maybe we all CAN burn Quarans because we have First Amendment rights here in this country, and WHO KNOW! maybe Jesus would do so too.
BUT DOES ANYONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA?!
I hope not. The increasingly militant tone - on BOTH sides - truly disturbs me. I don't want to live in a holy war. So, have some tolerance, chill out, and don't give radical Muslims a reason to blow themselves up here.
You're inviting conflict. Don't feed the fire.
The journalists of our society are the primary guardians of freedom of speech, in some ways they are even more important than our soldiers. Today’s journalists are B and C list celebrities, and they live comfortable lives. They still have a background in journalism, but in their comfort they don’t work as hard as reporters did at one time. They don’t investigate things; they won’t even read and get the truth about Islam. They certainly aren’t going to put their lives on the line for free speech the way reporters in the past would do. Perhaps they are angry with this preacher, in part, because he reminds them of their cowardice.
People are indeed getting fed op with Islam, particularly what they see of Moslems and their penchant barbaric practices, while the MSM extolls the virtue of Islam.
Then there is this continuous referrals to holy Ramadan as the month of fasting - the implication is that Moslems are fasting for the month, and look how pious they are. What is not mentioned is that Moslems fast only during daylight hours, then make pigs of themselves in the night - in other words, engage unashamedly in the sin of gluttony. This is truly the most bizarre form of fasting, which actually achieves the exact opposite of what fasting is about.
Then much of Islam is like that - practice the form while ignoring the spiritual.
Thanks traeh. Those Koran verses pretty much make the Islamic rejection of the divinity of Jesus (and therefore of the Trinity) definitive -- though as always, the Koran has to add a bizarre twist in the midst of its condemnations (e.g., that Christians and Jesus himself claim that Mary is God).
By the way, the explicit rejection of the Trinity in verse 4:171 -- Say not "Trinity" -- is more usually translated as: Say not "Three" -- so I suspect the Arabic literally says "Three" and not "Trinity".
Papa Whiskey wrote:
Wise up, everyone. This no'count peckerwood preacher is a publicity hound whose success is due entirely to the mainstream media's desire to make the Counterjihad movement look like a bunch of knuckle-dragging bigots. Thus, they take this jerk and parade him before the world, leaving our somber SIOA/FDI rally on Sept. 11 unheralded and unmentioned. ABC even offered to fly him up to New York this weeken; what does that tell you? Terry Jones is no friend of ours, his hostility toward Islam notwithstanding.
..................
Well, yes and no, Papa Whiskey.
On the one hand, I do agree with you—burning a book is not a reasoned critic of its contents.
Pastor Terry Jones is *not* an articulate man, and was completely unable to answer clearly when Anderson Cooper was hectoring him on why his "actions were more important than the lives of US marines" (a disingenuous question if ever there was one).
This sort of thing is part of the reason—besides his being an eminently decent man—that Robert Spencer is always so measured in all of his utterings.
On the other hand, if any critic of Islam needs to be as knowledgeable, intelligent, and erudite as Robert Spencer, then we are all in trouble—and I certainly include myself here.
If Muslims can stone underage girls to death, blow up markets, and drive airplanes into civilian buildings and meet with less outrage than some yahoo torching a few books, than we are always going to be at a disadvantage. How can any critics of evil possible come out ahead when things are so morally skewed?
The fact is that much of the mainstream media is *always* on the look out for the slightest gaffe or minor misstatement on the part of anti-Jihadists, while Jihad terrorists can feel free to call for the destruction of Israel, the murder of apostates, and the imposition of Shari'ah law.
Over the past week or two, a number of JW posters (not yourself, Papa Whiskey) have asked Robert Spencer why he doesn't simply tell Jones to cease and desist—but, of course, neither Mr. Spencer nor anyone else has any such power.
Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller have been enormously influential in the anti-Jihad movement, but they have no ultimate control over it—nor, really, should anyone.
While I do rather cringe at the thought of more Terry Joneses, I know if the anti-Jihad movement gets big enough, it is going to include a lot of people without the mental or oratory skills of Robert Spencer.
If we have no worse than a goof like Terry Jones—compared to the brutal savagery of Jihad and Shari'ah—then we are doing pretty well—and certainly continue to occupy the moral high ground.
You're inviting conflict. Don't feed the fire.
For your information, Esther, you too are inviting conflict if you still haven't converted to muhammedanism.
I hate to break it to you Esther, but you're ALREADY IN A HOLY WAR! It's just a matter of how long do you want to be in one and what do you want the outcome to be? To quote Billy Joel and pun totally intended, "We didn't start the fire".
You are suggesting that someone forefit his First Amedment rights tomorrow and not burn the koran to appease FUNDAMENTALIST Muslims.
Then, the day after that maybe I can forefit my First Amedment rights by having to cover my head with a hajib to appease FUNDAMENTALIST MUSLIMS...and on and on until we're ALL DEAD or WORSE...SLAVES!
Where do we say STOP! ENOUGH! NO WAY! Our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS are more important than your ridiculous, hair trigger,thin skinned religious sensitivities fuled by your Johnny-Come-Lately-to-the-USA religion.
I say BURN the damn thing in every state and let the chips fall where they may.
Once again, we're not listening to the advise of dear old Churchill!
"If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."
"The ordinary news viewer must, by now, think that the book burning event is taking place on the site where the Twin Towers once stood. The 9/11 rally is to witness this book burning. Robert is the book burner."
..waving a burning cross in one hand and a big burning koran in the other, it could be Vintage RS: hymns, hollers, and Screeeches! to a restless sea of bucktoothed hillbillies??
To hell with that kind of thinking, it hasn't worked yet. I would do it just because it pisses them off.
Hesperado,
...the Koran has to add a bizarre twist in the midst of its condemnations (e.g., that Christians and Jesus himself claim that Mary is God).
The Qur'an does not claim that Jesus himself claims Mary is Jesus. You might have gotten a different impression from 5:116, which I quoted above, but if you go on to read 5:117, I think it's clear the Koran does not think Jesus thinks Mary is God. That belief is thought to be a corruption by followers from after Jesus died.
Interesting what you say, that the original Arabic probably says three, not Trinity. I'll bet you're right.
Hesperado,
The first sentence of my 3:15 pm comment just above should read
"The Qur'an does not claim that Jesus himself claims Mary is God."
*lol a fundie preacher with a following of about 50 ... threatens to exercise an equally insensitive portion of that same 1st amendment right the good imam is claiming and the PRESIDENT of Iran calls fo...r Israel's annihilation . . . no.. not an extremist . . . nor were those 4000 in Kabul yesterday, or those in Indonesia... those are just "a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of extremists" as Daisy put it.
Esther,
"...increasingly militant tone - on BOTH sides - truly disturbs me..."
I have only been able to discern ONE militant side in this controversy. It is coming from Islamists & their dhimmi support system.
There is no 'militant' aspect to any protestation of the Muslim world's threat to humanity. Discovery & self-preservation do not constitute militancy.
From my previous post:
"Islamists are calculating their moves on the chessboard in much the same way as Hitler & his Nazi party. We are cleverly being set up & our movement options are diminishing every day because of appeasement.
How long shall we hold off confrontation? Until we are hopelessly trapped as the Jews were?"
Radical Muslims, Esther, will blow themselves up whether kuffaars burn Korans or not. If it's not the burning of Korans that will make them go into lethal hysterics, it will be something else---cartoons of Mohammed, any support of Israel, any criticism of any kind of the Islamic faith, requesting, as Pope Benedict XVI did a few years ago, "reciprocity" from the Islamic world, denying them the right to build a mosque anywhere they want to in the West (e.g. at or near Ground Zero in Manhattan), preaching Christianity or some other faith to Muslims (though, of course, they expect to be able to preach their faith to others without hindrance), forbidding the wearing of certain Muslim garb for security or social reasons, etc. Understand, I'm not for book burning, but if book burning makes people want to harm or kill others, then I can find an exception to this rule respecting the torching of books.
Oh, by the way, we're already in a holy war. It's just that many folks, and no offense but you appear to be one of them, don't realize this yet. Islamic doctrine declared war on the human race 1400 years ago. That doctrine is still very much alive and with parasitical Muslims who will use technology the Islamic world would never have developed on its own against all of us unless we do every last damn thing they want. That's no way to live, giving in to barbarians. Seen this way, the burning of Korans means very little in the larger scheme of things. Reconsider, if your're able.
Frankly, I've had it with the whole lot of these low-lifes. They come to my country and screw with my Constitution, lie, threaten, disrespect, kill thousands? No more! Everything's fair, nothing's off the table. They want war? Let's do it. They won't be satisfied with anything less anyway. So let's stop pussying around, get the gloves off, call them for what they are: A mestasasizing disease that must be stopped cold regardless of method or result. Before it consumes the host...
To burn Christians is OK!
And youtube even pulls the video,
trying to hide the fact of how terrible Islam and the followers
of same really are.
But to burn a Koran, a book full of hatred is not OK according to just about everybody and his dog here in the west, and also the Christian burning Muslims in the retrograde Muslim countries.
http://savageinfidel.blogspot.com/2010/09/christians-are-burned-alive-by-muslims.html
6 comments:
Shawn Savage said...
I do not know why this was pulled. It was really a very accurate depiction of Islam in action. I guess if people saw it they might actually stop thinking that Islam was all so wonderful and tolerant.
While the world is up in arms over a the potential burning of the Koran, that same book encourages the burning and killing of actual people. The world needs to decide what is more important: Human life or some violent text.
I decided long ago that human life is more important.
September 10, 2010 8:30 AM
This is what really makes me angry.
The injustice, the blind stupidity of the liberal left, youtube included for pulling this video.
Edua.
Absolutely Havanabrownsam.
I am horrified at what I see happening. We are blindly repeating history.
Civilized man has historically been duped by the insane barbarians of society whom fear nothing and have nothing to lose. The civilized end up waiting until they are backed into a corner to react. They have not always been able to escape once so deep in the abbyss. Several million incinerated Jews are good proof of that.
By definition, a civilized society would find the only solution that ensures it's survival at the minimal cost to it's peoples - insane. That solution being moving to eliminate the threat before it has time to cause any real damage. I don't see this era's civilized society doing anything different from past societies. So therefore, we can expect to be in the corner in a near future. How deep and dark a corner remains to be seen. God help us all.
I don't agree with most of what this pastor stands for, but I do applaud him for having the courage to stand up to muslim threats. Too few have had the courage to face the intimidation & threats from muslims and have walked away with their tails between their legs, like schoolyard bullies, this has only empowered them.
Courage & fortitude is all they respect & fear. Let's give it to them.
traeh,
Right. What I meant to say was that the Koran claims that Christians think that Jesus claimed Mary was god.
DeeMack,
Chill out. This is the type of paranoid, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, hate-filled nonsense that leads to never-ending religious conflicts that benefit no one.
I'm not saying you don't have a right to burn the Quaran. I'm just saying, its obviously not a good idea, and don't be surprised that people may die because of it. I am NOT supporting that kind of response- of course I think its madness to go out and kill innocent people because they burned your holy book. But THAT IS WHAT WILL PROBABLY HAPPEN. Do the responsible thing. Really.
And what would you say to Feisal Abdul Rauf's CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to worship his religious freely? That is equally worth protecting.
And I'm sorry, but I am ssssooo not worried about an Islamic takeover in the United States of America. I don't know who makes this sh*t up.
maxilo ...
I appreciate and welcome your insights and comments, since I do have a propensity towards being defensive of my Christian faith. Thank you for pointing this out, and I will make every effort to improve in this area in the future. Please be patient with me in the process. Take care.
Sorry to disappoint you, Wellington, but the Crusades are over.
I still think the Qu'ran-burning is a bad idea. In a day and age when jihadi bombast and bragging hides a quiet movement away from Islam (people like Rifqah Bary are just the tip of an iceberg), it is imperative that Christians show Muslims that the Gospel is not a club held over their heads the way the Qu'ran and Hadith are clubs held over ours. And, yes, a fair amount of this reversion away from Islam has happened since 9/11/01.
But, I also agree with other posters who point out the imbalance between Mr. Jones' burning the Qu'ran vs. Muslims' burning Christian people.
By the way, Traeh and Hesperado, your citations from the Qu'ran and Hadith about Jesus impress me more and more that Islam thoroughly misunderstands what Christianity actually teaches.
And, I am also hopeful that our Western people are truly rejecting and tuning out the PeeCee/EmCee elite. They've served us badly.
And sorry to disappoint YOU, Esther, but there are only so many varaints in history, which accordingly has a habit of repeating itself, no matter how much we learn.
Sooner or later you will have to choose sides. That's what happens in the face of aggression, which, by the way, tends to start off small and sneaky.
I meant "variants" of course. In a hurry.
Hey Esther,
Just a quick question: Who in the USA made headlines by burning qorans before 9/11/2001?
That's right, NOBODY. But, amazingly, muslims attacked us anyway, didn't they? And killed 3,000 innocent people. And no one had ever heard of Terry Jones, had they? Well?
Grow a brain, get a clue!
Esther,
*Chill out. This is the type of paranoid, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, hate-filled nonsense that leads to never-ending religious conflicts that benefit no one.
------------No, I can't and I won't. Im too close to the fire for that. The only paranoia, xenophobia and hate filled nonsense I see, is coming from their side. I'm sure I can speak for most of us on this board when I say that we don't care what color you are, what language you speak or if you worship a rock...so long as you don't throw your rock at us and respect us and our rights. The never ending religious conflicts will continue to exist because Islam exists and refuses to reform.
*I'm not saying you don't have a right to burn the Quaran. I'm just saying, its obviously not a good idea, and don't be surprised that people may die because of it. I am NOT supporting that kind of response- of course I think its madness to go out and kill innocent people because they burned your holy book. But THAT IS WHAT WILL PROBABLY HAPPEN. Do the responsible thing. Really.
--------Good idea or not, the fact that people might die because of a book being burned should be a BIG CLUE to anyone of just how dangerous these people are. The responsible thing is to not stick our heads in the sand and place blame on the irrelevant and address these people before they are too strong to deal with. Really.
*And what would you say to Feisal Abdul Rauf's CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to worship his religious freely? That is equally worth protecting.
---------I've never said anything about not letting someone worship a religion freely. BUT if your religion calls for the death of those not in your religion - you're damned skippy I have a problem with it. His rights end where everyone else's begins. I'm sure if some Mayan decendants wanted to start giving human sacrifices to their sun king...it would be a "no go". There are certain freedoms that trump others and without those freedoms the others are moot.
*And I'm sorry, but I am ssssooo not worried about an Islamic takeover in the United States of America. I don't know who makes this sh*t up.
---------De Nile is a river in Egypt. No one makes this up. The proof is right in front of you if you choose to see it. I don't know how old you are, so maybe you won't see it in your lifetime. But it can and will happen if we are not very careful. I'm sure similar words have been uttered in the past only to have the horrifying reality slap-in-the-face via the sound of the Blietzkrieg, or the sight of the firing squad or the invading army's cadence.
I would love nothing more than for you to be right. Unfortunately, the facts tell me otherwise.
Sorry to disappoint you, Esther, but your response to my response is pathetic.
Esther, Im curious...
Since the Crusades are over and you're sssooo not worried about an Islamic takeover of America, why are you here?
According to you, there is no Jihad nor anything to watch.
gotcha
meaning: I get it.
Wellington:
you are right her response is pathetic!
And isn't it ironic that Esther mentions the crusades which were effect of the result of centuries of aggression by the "religion of peace".(can't we all just get along?)
DeeMack: Why is esther here at JW?
That is easy
Esther must be a (1)'submitter'.
Or (2) one of those moral relativist PC Dhimmis.
Unfortunately Esther is like far too many in the West. They choose to stick their head in the sand like a ostrich hoping that if they just ignore the threat it will go away.Unfortunately all the history of the world shows that this is delusional!
Sadly it may take a absolutely horrific attack, perhaps with WMD's to change her mind about the threat.
The Florida pastor, were he more educated, would mention, as has been know for centuries, that Islam is an Arian heresy, at best.
And a deathcult, at worst.
The former is merely a defunct historical curiosity.
But the latter is a vital reason to fight against (regular, fundamental, immoderate) Islam ...until it Reforms, or Perishes.
Whatever illuminates the dismal dogmas of Mohammadism, even a threat to burn their medieval Mein Kampf, is needed to wake up the somnambulistic, multiculti, dhimmi-drifting West.
He already has the right to worship freely. He doesn't need a mosque built on the unmarked graves of my countrymen in order to do so.
He can worship as I did in Iraq and Egypt.....in my heart. If that is not sufficient then it is his god and his religion that is deficient, NOT American Christians!
ALLAH is LORD OF THE WORLDS
He(ALLAH) says so over 49 times in the Quran.
The Quran also says;
(This is) the Revelation of the Book in which there is no doubt,- from the "LORD OF THE WORLDS".
Translations of the Qur'an, Surah 32:
YUSUFALI:
----
Who is "LORD OF THE WORLDS"
The Bible tells us in Eph 6:12 ,
The "LORD OF THE WORLDS" is
the RULERS OF THE DARKNESS
Eph 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the
RULERS OF THE DARKNESS of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Ruler of the Darkness is found in
Lexicon Results
Strong's G2888 - kosmokratōr
Rulers = LORD OF THE WORLD, prince of this age, the devil and his demons
Yeah Esther! Get a clue! You're unwittingly giving me a bad name around here. LOL!
Give up on Esther, Wellington. She already 'submitted' to the Stockholm Syndrome, even before we fired a shot. She might as well start sewing her burqa, just to be on the 'safe' side she craves. Nothing you can do to help her -- She already surrendered.
According to you, there is no Jihad nor anything to watch.
================
I hereby nominate DeeMack for "Wittiest Line of the Night!"
Esther claims,
That some of us here at JW are Islamophobic.
And that we are ‘paranoid’, about an Islamic takeover in the U.S.A.
Just some assorted facts and remarks in no particular order:
What was or is now called Syria, Iraq, Palestine, Egypt, Persia, India, North Africa, Spain, Turkey, Greece, the Balkans, East Africa, parts of South East Asia (Indonesia and Malaysia) were all conquered by horrific bloody violence by the ‘religion of peace’.
Indeed they probably would have conquered all of Europe if not stopped by Martel in France and by Sobieski at Vienna.
And on the dastardly attack of 9/11 we witnessed a great number of Muslims in many parts of the Islamic world cheering on the destruction.
We see them murdering, engaging in destruction, issuing death threats because of being offended. Pym Fortuyn, Theo van Gogh are just two (of too many to list) who have been murdered in cold blood.
Salman Rushdie, Ayyan HirsiAli, Birgitte Gabriel, Pamela Geller along with the creator of this website Robert Spencer (also too many to mention) have been threatened with death for exercising their freedom of speech.
Now they are threatening America that if their Victory mosque is not built. They will attack us!(AKA as extortion)
We see them teaching their children that the Jews are pigs etc. and Christians are infidels. Dressing their children up in suicide vests and having them play act as terrorists.
We have their leading politicians (e.g. Amadijenidad for one) and their most highly educated and respected religious clerics (e.g. Ayatollah Khomeini for one) constantly issuing death threats, fatwas to writers, cartoonists, the U.S.A. (America the great Satan!) Making threats that Israel shall be annihilated of the face of the earth etc.
I could go on much longer but I think I have made my point!
Now Esther will respond typically as Dhimmi’s always do:
They are the fringe elements of Islam and they do not represent true, moderate Islam,
or they misunderstand Islam or some other babble.
But the problem with that theory is: How could it be that their highest academically,learned, theologians who are educated in their most prestigious universities do not understand Islam? Did Khomeini who studied Islam all his life and was one of their most respected Islamic cleric and scholar misunderstand Islam? Many other of their most highly respected religious leaders are similar.Do they all misunderstand Islam?
Do all the Muslim masses that protest, murderously and violently, all misunderstand Islam?
But for argument's sake lets accept the premise they all misunderstand Islam.
Why is the misunderstanding of this religion so prevalent, so commonplace? Does this not tell you something about this religion that it is obviously so imperfect, illogical and irrational that is so easily misunderstood? The fact that there is so much misunderstanding of this religion that it results in so much murder and destruction? Can we say the same thing about any other religion? How many Christians or Jews or Hindus or Buddhists do we see misunderstanding their religion and going on murderous rampages and engaging in extreme destructive violence?
But Esther thinks there is no threat, and we are all being paranoid and Islamophobic.
Thank You, No Canadian Dhimmi. VERY well stated. I'm hanging onto your post, it will go into my file of "Posts of Note" that I use for reference. :D
Meh. There's a MUCH better use for the quran than burning it:
http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/koranpaper1_2.jpg
heheheheeheheheh...
Luv ya Sheikyermami!!!
Something in my ancient memory bank tells me that the all-knowing islamic ulema, some of whom consider themselves allah's branch kin, decreed long ago that the proper way to dispose of a worn out or damaged qur'an is to burn it. I guess only muslims are allowed to burn qur'ans.
Meh. There's a MUCH better use for the quran than burning it:
http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/koranpaper1_2.jpg
heheheheeheheheh...
Luv ya Sheikyermami!!!
It wasn't all "horrific bloody violence". I was just in a bookshop, and looking at a book about African history. The writer talked about the Islamisation of certain areas by clerics who (generously!) set up schools and got into the kids' minds such that what was put into them never left. Sometimes da'wa is enough to establish Islam (and that is what they have been hoping for in the US). Unfortunately the writer of that book said Islam introduced wonderful things, culture-stability-blah-blah, so I put the book down.
Mind you, the violence comes at some stage...it wouldn't be Islam if it didn't. Da'wa...conversions...Islamic law...INTOLERANCE of anyone not Muslim, or not Muslim enough. The lesson? Read the fine print before you buy! (I suppose those poor Africans who were converted centuries ago couldn't read, bu there is no excuse for us, because we can!)
Thank You Eleanor.
Coming from you I consider that an honoured compliment!
From my reading of JW I have come to sincerely respect your opinions.
PJG Your point is well taken.
(Assuming we can actually believe in the veracity of the facts of history reported in that book.)
I will reiterate:
not All "horrific bloody violence'
only,MOSTLY'horrific bloody violence".
Cheers!
Hi Kepha,
I agree with you.
Jan
you're new here?
Welcome.
Welcome to Mr Spencer's Virtual Hedge School for the Resistance Against Jihad and Sharia.
Thanks No Canadian Dhimmi! Very sweet of you to say. :D
Supplementary Late Night Musings
On Islam Being Misunderstood:
If it is true that Islam is ‘misunderstood’ by the murderous and violent mobs then why are they ‘misunderstanding’ it?
Why are not their religious teachers and scholars who do truly understand Islam not pointing out to them that they are ‘misunderstanding’ it? That their display of murderous and violent outrage is not Islamic?
Now if it is true that a great many of those who ‘misunderstand’ Islam ’ are illiterate or only slightly literate, then where are they getting their ‘misunderstanding’ of Islam from? They cannot be getting their ‘misunderstanding’ from reading the Islamic religious books if they have not read them.
Therefore they must be getting it from other individuals who ‘misunderstand’ Islam.
Again why are not those who understand Islam whoever they may be, not trying to correct the ‘misunderstanding’ of Islam?
Why do we never (or at best extremely rarely) hear of those who understand Islam announcing to the world, that when these murderous and violent mobs do not understand Islam and that they are ‘misunderstanding’ it?
Some Philosophical Questions for Islamic and Jihad Theology:
Why did Allah create a world that needs Jihad to be conducted for Allah if he is Omniscient, Omnipotent, purely Perfect?
Why did Allah not just make the world perfect?
Allah created everything. Why did Allah create infidels? Allah hates infidels. Allah did not have to create infidels but did. Why?
If Allah is all compassionate and merciful, then why would he create Infidels condemning them to hell? Infidels who have no choice but to go to hell for Allah has fixed forever and pre-ordained who will go to heaven and who will go to hell.
Why would Allah in revealing his truths not be precise enough so that there were no misunderstandings of them?
If Allah is Omnipotent and perfect why would not all human beings WILLINGLY AND NOT THROUGH FORCE believe his revelations?
If Allah is Omnipotent and perfect why are his revelations not so LOGICALLY and RATIONALLY sound that we would have no choice but to believe them?
If the whole history of the world and who is going to heaven and who is going to hell is pre-ordained by Allah (Fatalism, Strict Determinism)(Inshallah)
Then what is the purpose of doing good deeds (Jihad) for Allah when they can’t make any difference on whether you are going to heaven or hell?
Whatever is going to happen to you will happen anyways. Jihad is superfluous!
If Allah intends for the world to become and evolve to perfection and in the end it will be, why the evolution, the wait, when Allah has the power to create it now?
Esther said: "Chill out. This is the type of paranoid, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, hate-filled nonsense that leads to never-ending religious conflicts that benefit no one."
if you want xenophoic, hate-filled nonsense... read the Koran. How that is even called a religion is beyond me but 1.3 billion people have been duped and continue to be duped.
I feel so sorry (in a way, but also derision) for the kids who grow up learning only the Qur'an and Islam. What kind of education is that??
Do they get a little math? A little geography? A little anything but Islam Islam Islam?
Very little, from what I understand, in most madrassahs. Not all, or even many, of the teachers are well trained in secular subjects, and many that are, are viewed with primitive "suspicion" by the other "faculty" members.
It's not surprising then, considering they spend years in madrassah, that they get Islam so wrong, Wrong, WRONG!
It's just a misundertanding, you see...
LOL
Esther doan know much do she? Chill out...let the cancer take its course. There is no danger here. You're all crazy xenophobes...
Hate filled? Yep. I hate islam. I pity muslims. No hatred for them. Well...except for those that incite or participate in violence/murder. Those guys I hate. muslims in general are the victims of islam and should be set free of that slavery.
It is possible to hate the sin and not the sinner. In the same way I hate islam but not the victims of it. Kinda like hating someone for having cancer. Get it Esther?
You would sit wondering what you did that made the jihadi cut your throat as he did so where as I would shoot him dead the moment he drew his knife. This much is clear.
The imam for the victory mosque at Ground Zero sez that our national security is at stake. That if the mosque location is changed due to the concerns of over 70% of the American people that means that the "radicals" have taken over America and violence on the part of muslims will ensue.
Y'know...nobody threatens me to my face without there being immediate and visible consequences.
This SOB just threatened every one of us here and abroad. He needs to be bitch slapped and sent packin' to whichever Crapistan will take him. His list of radical statements and beliefs is way too long for my liking.
He's a liar and an accomplished one. The spotlight he's under is quite bright and hot. The stench of what he's made of will soon become evident to even the casual passerby.
We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. George Orwell
islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it. Alaskan Infidel
I recall some 50 years ago that the KKK was marching in the street with Nazis uniforms and the whole shmear...
I asked my Dad about that. "Didn't you kill men that wore that uniform and believed these things?"
He told me, "Yes son, but here in America we allow people to express whatever it is that they believe even if we don't agree with it."
This man Jones is no traitor as I heard one of our local Conservative talk show hosts call him. Nor is he a Patriot. He's just a man who knows what the koran is and what it represents. Few do.
Who made this an issue? Who decided that this would be a good tool for creating more division that could be blamed on those darned islamophobes, those Conservatives?
The same sorry sacks of crap that gave us the lies about who Obama is and what he represents. The same parasites that promote their fellow parasites like Jackson and Sharpton and this lying sack o' crap Rauf.
The media is agenda driven. And that agenda seems to be the end of American sovereignty, our borders, our culture and our language.
It's too damned bad we can't fire the lot of them and hire real Journalists to replace them. At least we can fire those that they lie to us about...
No islam...Know Peace.
Know islam...Throw Up!
Hi Jan,
the short answer to your question is that European pandering to Islam goes back to the OPEC days of the early 1970's. The Arabs hated being beaten by the Israelis in the Yom Kippur War (and all the others!) and basically threatened Europe with no more oil unless they stopped supporting Israel and allowed Muslims free rein in Europe.
France was a leading party in this transaction, de Gaulle having dreams of forming an Arab Euro power bloc to defeat America's power. Pathetic isn't it?
Read "The EuroArab Dialogue and the Birth of Eurabia" by Bat yeOr at www.dhimmitude.org.
There are also references to Bat yeOr and Eurabia on jihadwatch.
Fjordman has written on Eurabia as well, google Fjordman Eurabia (he summarise Bat yeOr and addds his won perspective.)
If you want to go massively indepth, Bat Yeor's book Eurabia explains it all.
Hope this helps!
Oops, sorry, didn't read posts before I posted mine to Jan!
“I feel so sorry (in a way, but also derision) for the kids who grow up learning only the Qur'an and Islam. What kind of education is that??
Yes, Eleanor how sadly true.
This insanity is the root of most of the world’s troubles today. This is precisely why there has been no progress of any kind material, scientific, or morally in the Islamic world for such a very long time.
The Qur'an is perfect, unchanging, Allah's truth for all time. All other ways of thinking and questioning are evil at worst, or superfluous at best, because everything of value and all truth is already in the Qur'an.
The reality is there can be no progress without questioning, pondering, wondering, disagreeing, debating, being able to be mistaken or wrong etc. By being free to look at reality in different ways. To argue different possibilities. This of course is not possible in Islam.
Absolute dogmatism (Islam) is decay at worst and stagnation at best, which history has amply displayed.It is remarkable (and unfortunate) that Islam has survived for as long as it has.
Can you imagine if (God forbid) the whole world was under the yoke of this mediaeval philosophy? No progress in any way. All life stands still for the rest of eternity. Sort of like rural Afghanistan for the last 1000 years.
Good chatting.
Off to get some zzz's
Night all.
I don't think Wellington is calling for a crusade. He is calling for non-Muslims to simply stand up for their own beliefs and values in the face of Muslim verbal--and often physical--aggression.
Further, many of us are bothered by Western elites' multiple failures to protect their non-Muslim majorities. In the Netherlands, the denouement from the beheading of Theo van Gogh (the couple-times grand-nephew of the painter Vincent) wasn't a re-affirmation of freedom of speech and expression in the Netherlands, but ultimately bringing charges against Geert Wilders and the exiling of Ayaan Hirsi, two politicans who dared criticize Islamic aggression. In Britain, the authorities have tended to be supine before Islamic threats, and have even allowed the rise of Muslim no-go areas in certain cities. The situation in Malmo, Sweden, is utterly appalling.
Here, in the USA, the mainstream media and government spokesmen delicately skirt the issue of home-grown goons doing what their imams tell them, and even generals give use PeeCee platitudes in the wake of Major Hassan's murder of several brothers-in-arms (themselves a diverse lot, I understand) in the name of "diversity".
I know that Christian rightists such as myself are routinely portrayed as rebel-yelling "bring-it-on!" bellicose yahoos in the face of a possible clash of civilizations. But, as one who has engaged in peaceful cross-cultural witness, I do not welcome this fight at all. The prophet Ezekiel tells me that God likes repentence far more than He likes the death of the wicked (and who that will be in the clash between my civilization's faithlessness and Islam's superstitious bigotry is only for God to know).
Champ, message received. I'll also try to correct my ways.
I am greatly encouraged by the comments I read on JihadWatch. Clearly not everyone is taken in by the pro-Islam propaganda served up daily by the Media and sadly confirmed by our leaders who really ought to know better. They keep serving us this poison and telling us: "Swallow." I do not and will not swallow Islam.
But what really gets me is the illogic of asking this free nation to tolerate a system which is totally committed to abolishing political and personal freedom!
Obama keeps saying that religious tolerance is to be protected. TELL THAT TO THEM. There are 1,000s mosques in the West. How many churches are there in Saudi? How many in other Islamic states? Churches are not allowed to be built in most Islamic states. Where's the religious tolerance/freedom in their countries?
Obama says he doesn't want a "Them and us" attitude. But who has created this stark difference between the freedoms of the West and the prison o Islam? Is it "Them or "Us"?
"Pastor Jones for President!"
Now there's a thought!
Our rulers are for the most part gutless and spineless vis-a-vis Islam. You ask "why is this the case?" Here are my thoughts...
To meet a false religion you must stand on the rock of the true religion. The Reformation did tremendous damage to the Church of Europe. This led eventually to Secularism, which is namby-pamby when confronted by Islam. Muslims laugh at the Secular West. They did not laugh at the Catholic armies when Islam was defeated at Vienna and at Lepanto. Secularism is not a strong enough conviction to withstand the onslaught from Islam.
There is an interesting connection between contraception/abortion and the rise of Islam in the West. The first is obvious: As Mark Steyne put it "Immigration makes up the the babies Westerners couldn't be bothered having." So the door was opened to Islam through immigration. They have made full use of this door.
The other reason is more subtle. It is worth noting that those who favour Islam are often also pro-abortion. Obama is a good instance. He is even in favour of partial birth abortion: The baby is turned around for a breech delivery.
The body is delivered stopping while the head still remains in the mother. The back of the baby's head is spiked and the brain is sucked out.
Is it too suprising that one who is so morally blind as to approve of PBA is not capable of seeing the threat from Islam?
On the other hand, I have noticed that anti-Isalm and anti-abortion attitudes are found together.
eg many conservatives are both anti-abortion and against the Islamic take-over of our country.
It is the Bible, itself, that reveals a war to be waged against the world and against Christianity (Rev 13:7-8; 12:17) by a false religion (Rev 13:8). This war will intensify as we near the End of Days. 2 Thess 2:7 describes this when the "restrainer" (the Holy Spirit) is "taken out of the way" as we near this time. I see what is happening in our time as precisely the fulfillment of the Holy Spirit being taken "out of the way." He no longer will "restrain" the darkness of the relgion of the Antichrist. The darkness gets darker and the distinction between the light and the darkness is made more clear; and satan is revealed in the darkness. For Muslims around the world to riot at the threat of a Qur'an burning is the fruit of a very dark tree. There are many Christians who are just beginning to interpret Islam to be the religion prophesied in the above passages. Pastor Jones appearently is one of them. He is telling the world the message that he believes he is to share. His method is not one of eloquence. He does not use reason or knowledge of Islam, to prove his point. He simply believes that he has witnessed enough of this religion to ascribe its root to darkness. On a newscast, I observed placards in his church's front yard, "Islam is of the Devil." How do we know whether his claims are true? The list of evidences that Tim shared is the short list. The question is not whether Pastor Jones should be allowed to burn the Qur'an but whether or not the message he delivers is true.
2 Thess 2:8 also prophesies that when the restrainer is taken out of the way, the "lawless one will be revealed." Does it make sense that the pastor of a 50 member congregation has gotten the world wide attention that he has gotten simply because he is going to burn a few Qur'ans? The attention is evidence of what is beginning to take place: God is revealing the "lawless one," and "he" is Islam.
Jack Smith
"Don't even think about it." Slight paraphrase.
If that's not a threat, I don't know what is.
Because they are morally blind and spiritually bankrupt. "When a blind man leads a blind man, both fall into the pit."
May I alert you to my other reply?
The appeasers only recognised the truth when we were already at war. ie too late. Let us hope and pray that history which is currently being ignored and thus repeated, will not repeat quite that far! After the war Churchill said "This war need not have happened." That is the trouble with denial. The problem grows and grows and then you have to deal it through war.
There is hope. Remember the Berlin Wall came down without a shot being fired. But then we had Reagan who named the enemy: Stalanist Communism. We need leaders who name the enemy and take measures to bing them down without war. Isolation, cease support to evil regimes etc. Measures could be taken to encourage the collapse of Islam instead of supporting it which is what the West is currently doing.
To paraphrase Churchill "The next war need not happen."
"we cannot defeat them, and we won't even try to defeat them."
The second part is right. But as to the first: We can defeat them. We need a government that is determined to defeat them. The means are there. Only the will is lacking. I do not mean necessarily force. Force is a last resort. Much that could be done is not being done: Trade restrictions etc. The problem with doing nothing is that force evetually has to be used. Churchill: "This war need not have happened."
So, I'm wondering that if all Christians with a PC simply downloaded a copy of the Qur'an and then deleted it would this action be considered a hate crime and worthy of even more riots?
Christians never have to defend their God violently because their God defends them. Christians defend their God by keeping the faith and not compromising that faith "once delivered."People who are not trapped in error are not threatened by criticism. They don't become angry or violent or seek revenge when criticized or slandered. Worshipers of a false god, however, will defend their idols, often violently, because their idols are helpless to defend themselves. People embracing false gods are threatened by criticism because criticism carries an accusation of their being in error.
Yes indeed Islam IS the enemy.
Given the inevitable violence that would ensue, I would not burn a Koran.
But "So, have some tolerance, chill out,"
Tolerance is not lacking in the West. There are 1,000s Mosques in West. How many churches are allowed in Islam?
It is Islam that is intolerant.
"And what would you say to Feisal Abdul Rauf's CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to worship his religious freely? That is equally worth protecting."
If Islam were just a religion and not also a political ideology that wishes to destroy the political and personal freedoms of the West, then you would be right.
But Islam is not just a religion and therefore you are wrong.
To burn or not to burn the Qur'an, that is the question. Which will it be.
When the news media began spreading the word about Pastor Terry Jones’ plan to burn copies of the Qur’an on September 11th (today), worldwide reaction ignited like a wildfire. Explosive demonstrations by thousands of Muslims sprang up in every country with a sizeable Muslim population. Such spontaneous reactions always require some form of organization with leadership and in the Muslim world that comes down to the local clerics stirring up the masses from within their mosques. Just as hundreds of thousands of Muslims danced with joy in the streets in every Muslim city after news of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Washington was broadcast globally, the worldwide Muslim community thinks, speaks and acts as of a single mind, like a colony of ants. In the Islamic culture there is no freedom of thought, there is no free will, there is only mindless obedience to the Qur’an and the ever present 5-times-a-day daily reminders conducted by Muslim clerics.
According to the Associated Press: “An Indonesian Muslim cleric said that “whether or not he burns the Quran, Jones had already hurt the heart of the Muslim world. If he'd gone through with it, it would have been tantamount to war,” the cleric said in the coastal town of Lhokseumawe. “A war that would have rallied Muslims all over the world.”
If Islam is just a religion how do you wage a war against it? Islam is not just a religion, it is a political system, a military force and a worldwide cult governed by its own constitution which is the Qur’an.
Ali Sina, an outspoken former Muslim, wrote in an article published in Former Muslims United that explains how Muslims can easily be incited to violence.
We have two kinds of Muslims: Terrorist Muslims and ignorant Muslims. The former are those who know Islam well and live by its dictums. The latter have no clue about their religion and have an idealized image of Islam that has no bases in facts.
Every “moderate” Muslim is a potential terrorist. The belief in Islam is like a tank of gasoline. It looks innocuous, until it meets the fire. For a “moderate” Muslim to become a murderous jihadist, all it takes is a spark of faith. It is time to put an end to the charade of “moderate Islam.” There is no such thing as moderate Muslim. Muslims are either jihadists or dormant jihadists – moderate, they are not.
In a news item published in the Biloxi-Gulfport Mississippi Sun Herald, Andrew Beacham, a Tea Party leader from Indiana, was quoted as saying,
“Tea Party and Religious rights activists will gather in front of the White House to tear out egregious passages from the Quran that call for violence against Christians and Jews. This is a peaceful "solidarity gathering" regarding religious freedom, and proposed Quran burning. “
“They will ask: "President Obama, do you support the Sharia law, the Quran, and Islamic violence; or do you stand with religious freedom, American liberty, your professed Christianity, and peaceful protest?”
The Qur’an contains 114 Chapters called Suras, and 6,236 verses and 61% of the contents are about dealing with non-Muslims. The Qur’an contains hundreds of verses filled with hatred for Christians and Jews and a barbaric code of justice that is the complete opposite of the freedoms we enjoy under our Constitution. Islam and the Qur’an is totally incompatible with the laws of our Republic. The first rule of our Republic is that we are all created equal but according to the Qur’an (Sura: 045.021) (Sura: 004.141) non-Muslims (referred to as Unbelievers) are not equal to Muslims.
Islam is so completely in control of every aspect of a Muslim’s life that it even contains instructions for hygiene. The web site The Religion of Peace points out: “Islamic law is based on the Qur'an and the Sunnah, which are set and fixed. There is no need for addition or correction. Neither is there any room for the law of fallible man (particularly non-Muslims). Nor should it take the place of Allah's perfect law, which tells a man everything he needs to know about daily life (down to which hand he should hold his penis while urinating).” And the authoritative link points to the University of Southern California Center for Muslim-Jewish Engagement where an extensive, searchable English language translation of the Qur’an, the Hadith and other authoritative books on Muslim life can be found. The USC web site has a section about Ablutions (Wudu’) the Islamic laws on hygiene that even take this issue further.
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 156: Narrated Abu Qatada:
The Prophet said, "Whenever anyone of you makes water he should not hold his penis or clean his private parts with his right hand. (And while drinking) one should not breathe in the drinking utensil ."
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 157: Narrated Abu Huraira:
I followed the Prophet while he was going out to answer the call of nature. He used not to look this way or that. So, when I approached near him he said to me, "Fetch for me some stones for ' cleaning the privates parts (or said something similar), and do not bring a bone or a piece of dung." So I brought the stones in the corner of my garment and placed them by his side and I then went away from him. When he finished (from answering the call of nature) he used, them.
If anyone thinks these ancient teachings are not relevant in today’s world one only has to consider that in a news story from Punjab, Pakistan a Christian couple were sentenced to 25 years in prison for touching a Qur’an with unwashed hands.
Punjab: Christian Couple Sentenced To 25-years For Touching Koran
Date: March 10, 2010
A court in Kasur district, Punjab, convicted a Christian couple, Munir Masih and Ruqqiya Bibi, to 25 years in prison. According to the Centre for Legal Aid Assistance and Settlement (CLAAS), judge Ajmal Hussein convicted the couple for touching the Qur‘an without washing their hands.
History tells us that book burning has always been a popular public event staged by despots and tyrants. Most notable within our lifetime was the massive burning of books by Adolf Hitler’s Nazi Party prior to WWII. But Islamic history set the first example when the Muslim armies under the direction Amr ibn al’Aas sacked the ancient city of Alexandria in 642 and asked the Caliph Omar, successor to Muslim Prophet Muhammad, in Baghdad for instructions regarding the vast contents of the Library of Alexandria. The reply said: “As for the books you mention, here is my reply. If their content is in accordance with the book of Allah, we may do without them, for in that case the book of Allah more than suffices. If, on the other hand, they contain matter not in accordance with the book of Allah, there can be no need to preserve them. Proceed, then, and destroy them." Historians will tell you today that the Ancient Library at Alexandria contained the largest collection of all the world’s knowledge at that time and the Islamic burning of its contents was a monumental catastrophe that is still recognized today, 1400 years later.
To burn or not to burn the Qur’an, that is the question today. Since this book seems to have come from the depths of Hell, it was probably born of fire anyway, so what difference does it make if it ends with fire. I realize that I have previously taken sides with more responsible anti-Jihadists who believe that calling for extreme acts will deter any reasonable investigation into the threat of Islam. But since further examination on my part suggests that book burning was practically invented by the ancient followers of Islam then I now stand corrected.
God Bless America and may we never forget or forgive what took place here on this date nine years ago.
Eleanor,
Thank you, thank you very much. (In my best Elvis voice)
;-) DeeMack
Dove World, Terry Jones site pulled down by the Texas based Web hosting company Rackspace, as reported in Christian Science Monitor, September 10, CSMonitor.com.
It sickens me and alarms me at the same time to see many people posting their approval of this decision by the web host, some even asking for the arrest of Rev.Jones!!
Hi, Maxilo, I appreciate that, especially since I don't enjoy being at odds with a fellow commenter against jihad; and although we may not see eye-to-eye on Christiianity, we are in this fight together against jihad. But I am certainly not above making mistakes or receiving correction either - not at all, so please don't think that I am asking you to stop pointing out any misperceptions that I may have made over things written by others. Please take care ...
The Pastor did make a good point. He merely threatens to burn Qurans and the Muslim and dhimmi world gets hysterical and condemns him, and the world is told that any Muslim retaliation would be justified. A giant mosque is being built over the ruins of 9/11 with Saudi jihad money and those American citizens who oppose it are ridiculed and ignored and told to be "tolerant" of the desecration. It is the unofficial global enforcement of Sharia law, which claims worldwide jurisdiction. Can anyone foresee the next step?
Jesus warned that there would be those who would "think they are pleasing God when they kill you."
To Esther I would say that she should have more trust in the Democratic system if she adheres to that.
Oriana Fallaci said that if people let go of freedom of speech than there would be no other way to solve differences than the violent way.
Precisely the sharp tone, even the insults and demonstrations, quran and flag burning, still legitimate forms of free speech, all these exist to let the steam of, helps mankind to consider and bring about changes. And all happen INSTEAD of the violence that without freedom of speech would have become inevitable.
Violent reactions by Muslims are very unreasonable and should be likened to criminal acts. Our side relies on freedom of speech, theirs often on violence, coercion, but there may be too many freedomloving smart people to be subdued by violence in the 21st century.
Esther doesn't admit it, but she's on the road to censorship, she's helping those Muslims who demand censorship. She's a limitor of freedom of speech, and it is people like her who make violence more likely in the end.
You have certainly gotten what you were seeking by your first comment and your subsequent comments. I won't belabor the points you didn't make.
I just have a couple of things to say.
First of all, besides the fact you were trying to gain attention, that is quite obvious, you were trying to stir up a controversy. Points made by several others here went way over your head.
Second, until you have become a victim of the so-called religion and its freedoms in this country, or watch enough news to know what is going on in other countries, you will stay blind to what is happening.
Some of those who post on this site have already been victimized and they have chosen to speak out rather than cower lest they be so again. Read, read, and perhaps learn. Muslims don't want freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of choice. They just want their way. To them, it's their way or no way. And they are using the freedoms they have here and in other countries to make it happen.
If Jesus walked the earth today, he wouldn't be attending one of the interfaith services that are going on this weekend with the Muslims. Islam is mankind at its worst and Jesus didn't back down from those who hide behind the guise of religion. The religious crowd was His worst nightmare and those were the ones who persecuted Him. He had strong rebukes for them. I marvel at how America rushes to the defense of freedom for the Muslims. Just look at the countries where Islam rules and they are anything but free. America is the enslaved Muslim's last hope for freedom and Obama gets up and declares that Islam is great, thus dooming them to whatever fate awaits their "crime"...beheading, stoning, amputation, etc.
I don't believe our politicians in Washington actually believe that it is "disgraceful" and "unAmerican" to burn the Koran. I believe they are frightened out of their minds by the retaliation. So we continue to placate the Jihadists as they continue to bully us. We will bow to Islam or be killed.
Thanks for crossposting something by the excellent Dr. Furnish. He is a fresh voice with a distinct expertise in Islamic history and how it bears on circumstances today. Also, being fluent in Arabic, he has his finger on the pulse of Arab-world communication. He has been interviewed on Glen Beck's show and also on Al Jazeera, which demonstrates something of his scope. He also descends occasionally into the dragon's jaws -- I was fascinated by his report on his trip to Iran to participate in a scholarly conference on Mahdism sponsored by the Iranian government, and at which this ordained Lutheran, who has served as a U.S. Army chaplain and interpreter spoke to a roomful of spellbound Islamic scholars. At one point in the event he sat a few seats away from President Ahmadinijad, who had put in an appearance because of the religious importance of the conference. He has travelled the world to interview Islamist ideologues of various stripes.
The additional details of Furnish's bio and CV by Archimedes2 makes it even more curious why Furnish chose to limit the Islamic confutation of Christianity to "crucifixion and resurrection" and failed to also include the equally important Islamic rejection of Jesus's divinity (and consequently, of Trinitarian Christology). I had thought it was because Furnish was unaware of the Koranic passages (and Hadiths) copiously documented by the commenter "traeh" in various posts above. Now I see that Furnish could not plead ignorance.
Hesperado,
I did not detail the many theological differences between Qur'anic claims and Biblical truths because I was blogging and wanted to get something up in rather short order last Friday--so I picked what I thought was the most salient point (Islamic denial of the crucifixion and, ipso facto, resurrection) and mentioned that. I noted this within the blog: "I do not accept that Muhammad received revelation from God, for many reasons (most of which would require a separate, and much longer, column)...."
Tim Furnish