Indonesian Islamic supremacists threaten retaliation for Florida Qur’an-burning

BurnQur'anIndonesia.jpg

This church’s plan to burn the Qur’an on September 11 is stupid; I disapprove of it and of many other things about the pastor, the church, and the church’s approach to the jihad threat. I don’t support the burning of books; it’s tactically stupid, as it will make the mainstream media portray the church as a bunch of Nazis, and it’s wrong in principle: the antidote to bad speech is not censorship or book-burning, but more speech. Open discussion. Give-and-take. And the truth will out. There is no justification for burning books.

Marisol’s comments here are apposite: “‘International Burn a Koran Day’ does a grave disservice to the cause of spreading awareness about Islamic teachings and the threat that Sharia poses to our way of life. It is a gift to Islamic groups who would so dearly love to portray all of us who criticize and question Islamic teachings (and triumphalist mosques) as frothing reactionaries.”

Pamela Geller puts it best: “Islamic supremacists can’t whine about ‘insensitivity’ while planning to erect a 15-story mega mosque on Ground Zero.” And the people who are burning the Qur’an on the 11th are, by doing so, placing themselves in much greater physical danger than Muslims are experiencing in this country, despite the recent spate of handwringing articles about a rise of “Islamophobia” and Muslims living in fear. As obnoxious as they may be, they deserve the protections that any American citizen deserves. American authorities should once again stand up for freedom, even if people are using that freedom in a manner of which they disapprove, and against Islamic supremacist intimidation.

But they won’t, of course.

“Indonesian Muslims Protest Plans to Burn Koran on September 11,” by Sara Schonhardt for VOA News, September 5:

Thousands of mostly Muslim protesters rallied around Indonesia Saturday in opposition to an American church’s plan to burn copies of the Koran on September 11.

During the weekend rallies in Indonesia, cities protested an event planned by a small Florida church to mark the ninth anniversary of the September 11 terror attacks in the United States.

Religious leaders of all denominations have condemned the plan by the Dove World Outreach center in Gainesville, Florida, whose pastor, Terry Jones, has written a book called Islam is of the Devil. The phrase also appears on t-shirts and a Facebook page promoting the event at the church estimated to have about 50 members.

The chairman of the Islamic group Hizbut Tahrir Indonesia that planned the protests, Rokhmat Labib, says the plan to burn the Islamic holy book is a provocation.

He says if the event happens Muslims will certainly fight back, and he cannot predict what form the retaliation will take.

Relations between Christians and Muslims are generally peaceful in secular Indonesia. But in recent months hardline groups have staged attacks against churches, stirring concerns of escalating conflict that would damage relations between Christians and Muslims in the world’s most populous Muslim nation.

The Pluralism Care Movement, a group comprising interfaith organizations and representatives from moderate Christian and Muslim centers, has called for the U.S. government to prevent the burning. It says the reaction from Indonesia should be one that shows the country’s tolerance for religious differences.

Labib sees it differently. He says Muslims must not stay silent when their faith is threatened.

He says Hizbut Tahrir does not accept the argument that the reason for burning the Koran is because it is the source of Islamist violence.

Labib says Muslims do not have any problem with Christians as long as they do not spread their beliefs in Muslim areas. And since Muslims are not forcing their beliefs on Christians, he says there is no reason why they should feel threatened.

No reason at all! Never mind all those attacks on churches!

Indonesia: Muslim mobs wreck villa of non-Muslim falsely accused of blasphemy
"It's an obligation for all Muslims to fully apply the sharia. I'm here to make sure that happens."
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Comments

  1. says

    the only thing that threatens islam is the truth! burning books although really stupid, it does show how easy it is to get a muslim pissed off.

  2. says

    Labib says Muslims do not have any problem with Christians as long as they do not spread their beliefs in Muslim areas.

    Now that’s not exactly true is it…

    Book burning…In my humble opinion burning a Quran is an expression of free speech…To burn them all or mostly would be direct censorship, but to burn one or several is not censorship but a symbolic gesture of opposition…
    But just because it is free speech, does not mean it is a smart or wise thing to do…You are also free to stick your hand into a hornets nest, but I wouldn’t advise it…

  3. says

    The unfortunate side of this church’s decision to burn the Qu’ran on 9-11 will open up attacks that end up painting all of us with the same brush who are critical of Islam by CAIR,the main street media,Muslims and their dhimmi supporters as being extremists.

    No doubt such actions play into the hands of Islamic propagandists which will put serious critics at risk of being marginalized as kooks.

    The upside is that today more Americans are becoming aware of the threat that Islam is to the West and how it is indeed a clash between two civilizations.

  4. says

    There will be a price for christians… In afganistan, in indonisia, and any other moslem majority country.

    But hey, they are all ready discriminated against

  5. says

    Now that the good pastor has captured the attention of all of the media viruses anxious to engage in condemnation of more Chrisitan “bigots”, I would suggest that he change tactics. Instead of “burn the Qu’ran day”, when the press is assembled cameras and all, announce that he will have a “read from the Qu’ran day”. And today we will focus on some of the Prophet’s select verses legitimizing rape and sexual slavery as in the following:

    O Prophet! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom
    thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war…
    Surah 33:50

    It is not allowed thee to take (other) women henceforth … save those whom thy right hand possesseth.
    Surah 33:52

    Save with their wives and those whom their right hands possess…
    Surah 70:30

    And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess.
    Surah 4:3

    And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) that your right hands possess.
    Surah 4:24

    And marry such of you as are solitary and the pious of your slaves and maid-servants.
    Surah 24:32

    Successful indeed are the believers; Who are humble in their prayers; … And who guard their modesty; Save from their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are not blameworthy.
    Surah 22:1-6

  6. says

    While normally I oppose book-burning, this would be the equivalent of burning Mein Kampf’s, so I support it. I’ve had mixed feelings about it since of course as mentioned by others, it will tar the anti-Islamic movement as a whole. But I’m thinking that this is a test of our civilization to uphold our freedoms, just as the printing and distribution of the Mohammad cartoons was.

    Another advantage is that it short-circuits the debate over whether Islam can be peaceful or reformed. There’s a few key things muslims will not tolerate, one of them is insulting their pedophile prophet, the other is desecrating their genocide manual-the Quran and the last is insulting Islam.

    By burning the Quran this church is proving that Islam is incredibly intolerant, violent and is at war against the non-muslim world (to those who don’t know it yet). Basically this is kicking the hornets nest and it’ll hasten the realization in people that we’re dealing with a very serious threat.

    So the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. When the muslims cause an uproar, it’ll demonstrate that they’re uncivilized savages (as if we really needed any more evidence) who cannot be reasoned with and that Islam does not belong in the West.

    It’ll also force us in the West to prove that we are serious about standing up for and defending our freedoms and our civilization. The cartoon riots lead to Draw Mohammad Day-an act of bravery and a resounding exercise and defense of our freedom of speech. The muslim world could do nothing aside from making death threats and censor itself from these cartoons-it was no small victory for our side.

    I can see the Quran-burnings causing a similar sensation and may become a symbolic act of defiance against Islamic totalitarianism. We should have no illusions, Islam brings with it the nightmare of fascism and a theocratic police state that we have all been fearing and warning each other about, so anything that pisses muslims off is fine by me.

  7. says

    “[Labib]says Hizbut Tahrir does not accept the argument that the reason for burning the Koran is because it is the source of Islamist violence.”

    And the rest of us are fed up with those obfuscations and lies, and with the unchallenged acceptance of those worn-out excuses by our lazy, ignorant politicians and ‘journalists’.

    I don’t think the folks at Dove World Outreach will change their minds about burning copies of the Qur’an.

    But if they simply throw them into a fire–without reading the precise passages that Muslims like Labib (above) continue to deny exist in their Big Book–they will indeed be tarred with the image of Nazi bookburners, and all of the pejoratives that will accompany that label.

    One simple example of a better approach:

    Read 5:38, make it clear to all in attendance (including and especially members of the press) that al Shabab Muslims are amputating thieves’ hands in Somalia, today, because that’s what the Qur’an tells them to do, and make it clear that the First Ammendment to the U.S. Constitution does NOT permit the unfettered practice of religious beliefs that violate that constitution and/or American law.

    And make it clear that we will never allow the Islamic religious laws that Muslims live under in Muslim nations to take hold here.

    And read every Qur’anic passage (with current day examples if available) that make Islam the antithesis of democracy and make it incompatible with the U.S. Constitution.

    And don’t forget to mention that that same Constitution does not just give Muslims the right to build the GZ mosque, insensitive as that structure will be to so many, it gives the Dove folks the right to burn the Qur’an.

    If the Dove folks don’t use this as a ‘teaching moment’, then they will deserve all the bad press they get.

  8. says

    Labib sees it differently. He says Muslims must not stay silent when their faith is threatened.

    Who’s threatening the Muslim faith? How does anything that happens in one one-Muslim church in the USA threaten the faith of residents of the largest Muslim country in the world? It’s between Muslims and their god. They shouldn’t need our approval for their faith. We don’t need their approval to worship our God but they don’t see it that way. Sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander. If it were, there would be synagogues and churches in Mecca and American workers would be allowed to bring their Bibles into Saudi Arabia.

  9. says

    “You burn Quran, you burned in Hell..!!”

    Why not leave it to God to punish us if we are truly desecrating sacred objects?
    Instead, Muslims are creating a hell on earth – for themselves.

  10. says

    If all they’re doing is threatening Hellfire in the next life, this Christian can live with it. Traditionalist Roman Catholics, True Jesus Church, Campbellites, and a few others do it to me all the time because I don’t submit to the Pope or because I got sprinkled with water when too young to complain rather than getting dunked three times with my head down in a stream when I was big enough to be very impressionable. Heck. There are so-called “Christian identity” folks who threaten me with Hellfire because I descend from “Satan’s Kids” (the JOOOOZ–something I had no say in) on my Dad’s side and married a “mud people” (something which I don’t regret). Then again, the “KKKristians” are also the ones who may do some shooting, so I’m glad the good ole FBI is keeping tabs on them.

    But I take my chances with a divine Christ who finds his father’s elect by the Holy Spirit’s gracious invitation to “whosoever will”, regardless of race or naational origin. It is clear to me that Muhammad didn’t have the foggiest of what he was talking about when he said that the Christian Trinity is God, Jesus, and Mary rather than the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; and that the Jews look on Ezrah (Uzair) as the Son of God the way Christians see Jesus as such.

    And, the only reason I don’t yell Hellfire too loudly is because I don’t know what God is going to do with my hearer tomorrow or several years down the pike. And, in any case, while I believe that Hellfire is a real destiny for lots and lots of people, I am not commanded to hasten anyone on his way thither.

    Thomas_h, let me second your suggestion. That would be a far better way to register opposition to the violence and false witness of the Qu’ran.

  11. says


    He says Muslims must not stay silent when their faith is threatened.

    The irony is, they always remain silence when their ‘faith’ is threatened by islamic terrorists. Oh wait, their ‘faith’ isn’t threatened by terrorism, only to a stupid quran burning halfway across the world!

    Muhammad did say “Silence is consent.” That must be why they must not stay silence when a kufar dares to desecrate a quran, no matter where it happens.

    To remain silent would be consent.

    What weak-minded and weak-faithed people, that they must resort to violence and intimidation to defend their personal beliefs, which are in no way threatened by Christians burning a book.

    The sad fact is, these protesting muslims will lash out against innocent people and they’ll justify it with their religion.

    But why are we surprised? Their “perfect” man and example of conduct had people brutally slaughtered for making fun of him.

    I wasn’t in favor of the book burning. We can learn from its contents. However, after seeing the absurd, ridiculous reaction from muslims, threats of violence, I see we can learn much more about islam by their behavior and responses.

    Islam, the religion of peace, my ass.

  12. says

    “…The Pluralism Care Movement, a group comprising interfaith organizations and representatives from moderate Christian and Muslim centers, has called for the U.S. government to prevent the burning…”

    Speaking as a former US diplomat, this is a problem we face worldwide. Unhappily, it is the case that a lot of the world simply cannot fathom what the First Amendment means to Americans, whether in or out of government. Accustomed to presidential or royal fiat, they don’t get it that an American president is bound by his oath to uphold the Constitution.

    Further, in countries where one or several religious communities are constitutionally privileged, or where the government actively tries to control the activities of religious communities, the Free Exercise Clause also causes no end of bafflement. When I was doing some international student ministry, a man from China asked who paid for the [adequate] church building in which the congregation that supported me worshipped. I replied, “We ourselves paid and are paying for it. It’s one of the reasons why we put aside a little money every week.” My Chinese interlocutor queried whether we got any government subsidy, and when I replied no, he was utterly dumbfounded. He simply could not understand how our pastor was, in effect, an employee of the congregation; or how a group of ordinary people could manage to buy a plot and put a building on it on their own initiative.

    Something tells me that Indonesians, whose government recognizes Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Hinduism, and Buddhism, will have a very hard time understanding that the US government has little or no leverage over some local Christian congregation’s actions. Add to the visible presence of Protestant Christianity in America, and the perception that the USA is a “Christian” country, the bafflement will get all the greater.

  13. says

    I’m wondering why no muslim groups have come out in support of the Church’s right to burn the quran.

    Wouldn’t it have been so much better if a group of muslims came out and said, “Yes, you have the right to burn a quran, just as we have the right to burn a Bible. We will help you protest islamic violence if you will opt for a different form of protest.”

    Notice this approach would be identical to what SIOA and supporters are doing with the Ground Zero mosque. We are not threatening muslims if the mosque gets built. We are not using intimidation to try and dissuade the developers. We are peacefully protesting our objection, and trying to offer alternatives, such as a different location. The islamic developers are standing firm and ignoring any attempts at a compromise.

    But muslims are not using any peaceful approaches. They are using threats and intimidation.

    That is the absolute difference between islam and the rest of humanity.

    We, as a collective and as our laws and common decency direct us, use peaceful approaches.

    Muslims, as a collective and as muhammad taught, use violent methods.

  14. says

    … it’s tactically stupid, as it will make the mainstream media portray the church as a bunch of Nazis, and it’s wrong in principle: the antidote to bad speech is not censorship or book-burning, but more speech.

    All that is true, but just as true is the fact that the Ko-Ran deserves dishonor and destruction more than any book in world history, bar none.

    To paraphrase John Lennon, imagine a world with no Ko-Ran, imagine a world with no Moslems.

    *** 8:7 ***

    The contents of the Ko-Ran need to be pointed out to the Infidel population. They have no idea what’s in the thing, and tend to equate it with the Bible, when nothing could be further from the truth.

    The Ko-Ran is a grave and imminent danger to us. It needs to be openly discussed as such. But it goes unchallenged in our public discourse, as does the hypersensitivity, implied threats of violence and actual violence Moslems exhibit in protecting the geegaws of their belief system, whether it’s the Ko-Ran, the Holy Prophet, any of it.

    The Ko-Ran, Ha-Deeth, Seer-Rah, Mohammed, Allah, all of these awful things richly deserve the greatest disrespect possible, and urgently so, before it’s too late.

    Here’s are a few samples of what I’m talking about, taken from the Ko-Ran and the Seer-Rah:

    *** Tabari 8:141 ***

    The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: “Kill! Kill! Kill!”

    *** Tabari 8:101 ***

    The Khazraj asked Mohammed for permission to kill Sallam Huqayq, who was in Khaybar. He granted this.

    *** 8:12 ***

    I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their fingertips off them.

    Why is it the Moslems get to enjoy the Ko-Ran, but we Infidels are denied such pleasure?

  15. says

    “…Dove World Outreach center in Gainesville, Florida, whose pastor, Terry Jones, has written a book called Islam is of the Devil.” — headline

    islam IS of the devil, and I cannot think of a more deserving book to be burned than the unholy quran–and what a fitting day to set it ablaze on. Were it not for islam & company, then we wouldn’t be remembering 9/11.

    The only thing that’s stupid is the sign that she’s holding. Jesus spoke more about hell than He did about heaven, so a person will not go to hell for burning a quran. Jesus was very clear on what will send a person to hell–and it isn’t burning a quran.

    And muslims are so funny! They think that they can arbitrarily decide what will send a person to hell, especially when they get pissed off over either pictures being drawn of evil muhammad, or pissed off over the unholy quran being burned. They think that holding up a silly sign will somehow scare us into believing their false position on the matter, lol …

  16. says

    Gen. Petraeus says we should walk on eggshells and respect Muslim sensibility when it comes to radical free speech, like burning Qurans. Interesting how that same argument is never used against flag burners…maybe because Americans generally aren’t on a hair trigger, and Muslims are?

  17. says

    crazyjew, what is so stupid about the sign, it is a perfectly good sign.

    Joseph, Americans are not on a hair trigger?? You just murdered more than 200,000 innocent Iraqis using lies and baseless accusations to avenge 9/11.

    If it was not for Islam you would still be wallowing in the dark ages trying to learn to count.

    Funny you can try to destroy the Quran but God has a covenant with the Muslims to protect the integrity of this book. If you think you can destroy it please try.

    A world with no Muslims would mean you still throwing shit on each other like in sixteenth century Europe.

    Hmm, yeah Christians are non-violent. As Borat would say…, NOT!! When sacking Jerusalem the imbeciles not only killed innocent Muslim men, women and children but also Christians and Jews. Absolute disgrace and shameful. It was not that long ago that witches were being burnt at the stake in Europe.

    Unfortunately the class of civilisations idea is shared by extremists on both sides. Americans are so bloody stupid. Why brand all Muslims bad. You want to try to fight 1.5 bn people?

    9/11 is yesterdays news. The new crimes scene is Iraq. You exacted your goddam revenge at a ratio of 1:40.

    Think about it, why is Islam creeping into America? Why are white Americans and Latinos converting at such a rate that it gives you panic attacks? Maybe they need something more in their lives than atheism, capitalism and even Christianity.

    The fact is God will judge between the Jews, Muslims and Christians. His decision is final and it up to Him if he wants to forgive a Christian, Jew or Muslim. No one has power over him. Believe it or not these three religions have common ancestors and believe in the same God. So why you drowning in all this hatred?

  18. says

    You can call him what you like, he is more akin to a single supreme being than that proposed by Christianity. There is nothing pagan about Islam and in fact it is considered a serious sin.

    You are an imbecile if you think muslims have not invented anything.

    Here, educated you ignorant mind. http://www.1001inventions.com/

    I have no problem with the technology invented in the West. Muslims have a lot to learn in relation to modern technology. I live in a predominately non-muslim country. Islam has no prohibitions of me living here. I have nothing to aplogise for and contribute to the well being of society as much as anyone else here.

    Hold on your hands are still soaked with Iraqi blood and we are committing mass murder. You on drugs?

    In relation to numbers here is WIKI…,

    ‘Arabic numerals or Hindu numerals[1][2] or Hindu-Arabic numerals[2][3] are the ten digits (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9). They are descended from the Hindu-Arabic numeral system developed by Indian mathematicians, by which a sequence of numerals such as “975” is read as a whole number. The Indian numerals were adopted by the Persian mathematicians in India, and passed on to the Arabs further west. From there they were transmitted to Europe in the Middle Ages.’

    Transmitted to Europe from the Arabs.

    The fact is you are promoting hatred against more than a billion people. Nasty and Evil.

  19. says

    I plan on attending the ‘event’ in Gainesville, FL 9/11/10. Based on what Spencer, Geller, ReligionofPeace.com et al are saying PLUS the comments on this board i now lean toward engaging the Dhimmi as opposed to joining the burning. Quotes from the Quran and associated texts on a flyer and maybe some signage seem to best way to go. Suggestions would be helpful.

  20. says

    I don’t want to argue either the wisdom or the stupidity of Qur’an burning, but I do want to bring up what I think is a more important general point.

    The argument that goes “don’t burn a qur’an ’cause someone who might’ve lived might die” I believe, is irrational.

    Just like “don’t anger the jihadists because they might blow something up” is equally irrational.

    The non-moslems we’re talking about already live in a hot war zone, and they’re under hard or soft attack by jihadists every day. If they’re not killed because of someone burning a qur’an in Florida, they’ll be killed because US troops won’t leave the ME, or they’ll be killed because there’s another cartoon day, or they’ll be killed because they used the term “Allah”, or they’ll be killed because they won’t submit, or they’ll be killed beause someone hurt the feelings of Rauf in NYC, or they’ll be killed because someone critized their pedophile, or they’ll be killed because…because…because…

    Any old excuse will do with Islam, as we’ve seen so very often.

    Tragically heartbreaking, but tactically wise, may be the idea that those non-moslems currently under threat in the war zones are beyond practical help. It’s a notion that is tough to come to grips with, but we must make a choice, because I don’t think we can adopt tactics that save both those in the now and those in the future as well, as hard as we may strive to.

    Those in the now are “behind enemy lines,” and what happens to them is purely the enemies responsibility — a responsibility that must be placed fully on the enemy, and not on ourselves.

    In my mind I think 20, 50, 100 years from now and how bad it could get if we focus too much on the now.

    It reminds me of the general who doesn’t want start the war because he realizes that by doing so, many of his boys will die (see George McClellan).

    All the while, the oppostion grows stronger and ever more belligerent (and Mr. Lincoln ever more frustrated and angry).

    If we focus on trying to save the people whom we cannot hope to help or protect, we risk losing everything for those who are not yet born.

    Just a thought.

  21. says

    I agree with Duh-Swami that this is just a form of protest and with others who say that the pastor is just burning his property. Koran-burning is NOT like killing people or burning churches, which is threathened by Muslims.

    If the Muslims want to retaliate in kind, they are welcome to burn bibles, or American flags, which they have done unopposed and relatively unprotested against in the past, or they can burn copies of the US Constitution or American Flags. Any disproportionate unbalanced reaction should be rightfully explained in our favor.

    And when Muslims and Islam-defenders say that is typical for the Anti-Islam-Pro-Democracy-movement we then have the choice to reprimand them for “tarring a whole group with the same brush” as they have done a million times when we criticized Muslims.

  22. says

    Never mind that Muslims unfurl the first amendment shield and disdainfully fight to deny the very same first amendment protections to critics of Islam.

    Islam, believe it or else.

    Lan Astaslem.

  23. says

    I firmly believe that if we as free people continue to appease muslims by avoiding offense to them our rights to free speech will be eroded and theirs will grow. I say let all who see fit to insult islam do so. I’m ready to fight back and keep my country just the way it is. They will not succeed.

  24. says

    What about suggesting to the “good” pastor that he make burning the Qur’an an act of reciprocity. In other words, for every Christian or other non Muslim (or moderate Muslim such as in Darufr) killed by terrorist attacks by Muslims, an equal number of Qur’ans be burned.

    This would make the terrorists themselves responsible for the Qur’an burning. It would also highlight that we value human life as being sacred, just as they value the actual paper and ink Qur’an as being sacred. You mess with what is sacred to us, we mess with what is sacred to you. For sure the mainstream media wouldn’t “get it”. But in effect we would be highlighting how Islam regards paper as being more valuable than human life.

  25. says

    To veer off the subject just a bit if I may, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has done America a tremendous favor by trying to build a mosque near the hallowed area of ground zero. He has opened more eyes of the American people as to the evil and intolerance that Islam is. For that, I can only thank him. He’s the gift that keeps on giving.

    As far as burning the Qur’an is concerned, if muslims take to rioting in the streets causing violence and chaos, well, once again, it only confirms what these savage barbarians are all about. Islam must be stopped and stopped at all costs if America wants to remain a free and liberated nation.

  26. says

    Unfortunately, Robert and Pamela are subject to all sorts of smears by the likes of CAIR and their enablers who love to label them with any fringe group in order to discredit them.

    I just pray that Robert and Pamela et al stay focused on their messages. Americans are smart. They can figure it out for themselves.

  27. says

    Lol! Courreges W you are a STUPID YANKEE.

    I am more educated than you, trust me you trailer trash.

    We can populate how we want, you can keep bumming each other and inevitably you will become extinct and good riddance.

  28. says

    Wellington I agree with you. I was replying to people suggesting muslims have not contributed anything to the world.

    Unfortunately your view is blinkered. The world is littered with examples of muslim invention, examples of muslim architecture (Taj Mahal) and art. You cannot see it because you choose not to.

    The Islamic empire was one of the most powerful empires in the world not long ago, 1915. I accept we are currently incometent, with poverty and corruption. To blame islam again is short sighted. Point in case, look at the Phillipines, I guess that is because they are surrounded by muslims right? There are numerous other countries that have a GDP per head below the average in muslim countries, many of them Christian.

    In relation to the character of the Prophet, this is a discussion in its own right. For Muslims the prophet will always be a beacon of light no matter what you say. Whatever your moral judgement, he is undoubtedly the most influential person in the world and will continue to be so. Muslims will not abandon him or there religion.

    Muslims were at the forefront of science when the west was in the Dark Ages. This drive of discovery was large due to a spirit of discover that had its basis within the islamic religion.

  29. says

    The mass-murdering Warlord pedophile “prophet” (lol) Mohamet – a symbol of darkness upon the world, and as evil as Hitler.

    The Warlord false prophet – residing in hell with Hitler.

  30. says

    On the whole Koran burning issue, in the “eyes of the law”, the pastor in Florida who is planning the burning of the Koran on the September 11, 2001 attacks anniversary has the legal right because of the United States Supreme Court ruling of a good couple of years ago on the issue of burning the American flag. The USSC ruling on burning the American flag applies to burning the Koran as a statement, though offending towards Muslims.

    But on the MORAL side, would burning a Koran be the RIGHT THING to do? My answer would be “no” because it would not reflect on the Christian faith too well.

  31. says

    After living in Egypt with islam being the guiding rules for everything, nothing a muzlim does can surprise me. How can a person find this reaction anything but typical for a muzlim.
    Moohammed married a 6 year old child and banged her at 9 before she could develop any critique of his “manliness”. this is common in pedophiles. If you have a tiny penis you go where no one knows what a real man is too play.
    Moohammed wanted to bang a married jewish woman. To ensure that she was receptive to his advances without any hesitation, he murdered her husband while she watched. Any one would rave about old Moo’s performance if getting your throat slit was the only other option. Ride that teeny weenie you big girl.
    Anyone that has lived among muzlums, not just known them but KNOWS them, has to notice all of the young 6 to 12 year old boys they keep around. Well old Moo saw a girl bent over fetching some item and wanted to play hide the salami with her. turns out the she was a he. Good Old Moo was quick to think and stated that satan, (the musleem version of a higher power) told him that if the boys had no pubic hair then it was OK to mudslide them to his hearts content. Every male muzie that can afford it has his harem of tight back door boys.
    When old Moo ran across a Jew that noted that old Moo just combines a bunch of pagan rituals with some jewish and christian ones and called it new and unique, that old satan told Moo to just lie in satans name to any one that questioned him.
    Satan then went whole hog, so to speak, and commanded moo to lie, cheat, steal, murder, enslave and of course rape, everyone that he could not convert.

    Who would not riot over unburned books if you could have everything the old evil heart desired in the name of good old satan?? islam is a soul killer and it is doing just that. muzlums hide in dresses, wetting their pants while brave men hunt them. I guess I understand as all muzlum men were once boys and we all KNOW what men do to these young boys. If I could never sit down until I was 13 I would be angry too.

  32. says

    “The unfortunate side of this church’s decision to burn the Qu’ran on 9-11 will open up attacks that end up painting all of us with the same brush who are critical of Islam….

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Perhaps you are right. What you can do, is to state that this activity is stupid, as Mr. Spencer has repeatedly suggested; that it does not serve to educate the public. Neither does help the discussion.

    Having been active in the pro-life movement, pro-lifers have the same problem with rogue people who go out and do stupid things. All you can do is to denounce the negative activity.

    Another thing that non-productive in my view is this, “Islam is of the devil” charge. A sectarian charge like this one does nothing to further the debate in a constructive direction.

  33. says

    “The upside is that today more Americans are becoming aware of the threat that Islam is to the West and how it is indeed a clash between two civilizations.”

    Agree.

  34. says

    One huge side effect of burning the Quran is that it will cause some deaths, that maybe would still be alive otherwise…Mahoundians already persecute Christians in many areas, I would look for these attacks to increase, as well as Afghans taking pot shots at American soldiers…And who knows what else…If you are going to open the gates to hell, don’t throw the gate wide open…Hollywood has made movies about that…

  35. says

    I agree with your 7:03 post.

    I think that this Koran burning could actually be a watershed (a critical point that marks a division or a change of course; a turning point) event against the creeping Islamization of America, that we’re all supposed to pretend isn’t happening.

    Also, the Nazis’ burned many different kinds of books. This event burns only one – the hate-filled Jihad doctrine Koran, a war manual, an open-ended permanent Declaration of War against all non-Muslims until “…the religion be all of it Allah’s.” (8:40)

    The pastor said this on the News (ABC) this Morning:

    Islam – “A 1400-year-old lie from hell.”

    Yep, totally agree. A total lie. The world needs to rid itself of the most egregious lie ever told in human history – Islam.

  36. says

    They should do both, tear out pages from the Quran, read them to show how evil they are and then burn them. So people will be educated on Islam and at the same time have those ideas destroyed by fire.

    Most muslims are too brainwashed to be reasoned with. Few of them will ever realize on their own that their beliefs are evil, because they were never allowed to hear other perspectives apart from their Quran.

    It’ll be up to us to defend ourselves from their ideology/mind-virus and also to free their minds which have been enslaved for centuries by this demented, sick death cult.

  37. says

    I would suggest that he change tactics. Instead of “burn the Qu’ran day”, when the press is assembled cameras and all, announce that he will have a “read from the Qu’ran day”. And today we will focus on some of the Prophet’s select verses legitimizing rape and sexual slavery…”

    A very good and doable idea!

  38. says

    This is an excellent suggestion for the pastor. Since he has yet to obtain the fire permit which has not been granted, he might consider your idea as an alternative.

  39. says

    Unfortunately that cannot be avoided. Whenever muslims want to vent their rage at something us non-muslims have done, sadly they reach for the nearly Christian, Jews, Hindu or other non-muslim they can find and kill them.

    As Lenin once said (on having Communism take over), you can’t make an omelette without breaking some eggs. The deaths will happen anyway, whether we do anything or not, since as we’ve seen on this blog, muslims killing non-muslims happens with regular occurrence particularly in the Islamic world.

    Don’t forget also when the war between the muslim and non-muslim world genuinely gets underway, those deaths will be insignificant compared to the millions that might get slaughtered as in WW2. Since people will inevitably die in a global war, I’d rather it was our enemies than us. As long as Islam exists, peace between muslims and non-muslims is impossible-so let’s just have this war out and be done with it, winner takes all.

  40. says

    You wrote: “Don’t forget also when the war between the muslim and non-muslim world genuinely gets underway, those deaths will be insignificant compared to the millions that might get slaughtered as in WW2…………”

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The way the West is heading, millions will be slaughtered. It will make WWII pale by comparison. We are talking about weapons of mass destruction, unlike anything we have seen heretofore. Our Gainesville radio talk show host, talking about this Koran-burning last week (which he opposes), had several Christian callers saying this Koran burning was unChristian, one of which I followed. This particular caller’s point was that we are living in an “age of grace” that he said (NT writer) Paul spoke of. I told the host I believe we are living in an age of war, quoting from the book of Ecclesiastes.

    “There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven”

    A time to give birth and a time to die; A time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted.

    A time to kill and a time to heal; A time to tear down and a time to build up…..

    A time to weep and a time to laugh; A time to mourn and a time to dance.

    A time to love and a time to hate; A TIME FOR WAR and a time for peace…..

  41. says

    “The only thing that’s stupid is the sign that she’s holding. Jesus spoke more about hell than He did about heaven….”

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Champ, do you believe in a personal devil? Jesus spoke about Hell and the devil. Muhammad spoke about hell and the devil. Where did Muhammad borrow that idea from? If we I don’t believe in either Jesus as my personal savior or Allah is god and Muhammad is his true prophet, then I will suffer eternal torment and hell fire. Why didn’t Moses talk about Hell? Or Jeremiah? Or Isaiah? Or Amos? Why didn’t they talk about hell and devils and demons? Islam is of the devil? That make for reasonable discourse?

  42. says

    This burning of the Quran by the church in Florida has the potential
    of setting off world-wide Muslim riots as already a lot of attention
    has been given to it by the media, taking into account the significance
    of the date and that Muslims are just itching for any excuse to demonstrate their hatred for non-Muslims and especially for America.

    I don’t necessarily agree with burning the Quran,
    or any book for that matter,
    and the idea to read and burn only the offensive parts or pages
    of the Quran as fitna has suggested here has more merit to me if any burning at all has to be done.
    It would educate people and help point out the barbarity of this
    so called religion.

    On the negative side it might set us back and the media will paint this in the blackest terms possible as they definitely are not on our side,
    dare I say yet?

    But if it isn’t this incident it will be another that will push
    this whole thing to a head.
    And to a head it has to go, I only fear that the time isn’t ripe yet.

  43. says

    “This burning of the Quran by the church in Florida has the potential of setting off world-wide Muslim riots as already a lot of attention
    has been given to it by the media, taking into account the significance
    of the date and that Muslims are just itching for any excuse to demonstrate their hatred for non-Muslims and especially for America.”

    Fine. Let the savage Barbarians show the world just how savage and barbaric they are.

  44. says

    If it was not for Islam you would still be wallowing in the dark ages trying to learn to count.
    ————————————–
    you funny!

  45. says

    “If it was not for Islam you would still be wallowing in the dark ages trying to learn to count.”

    LOL! HINDU MATHEMATICIANS DEVELOPED THE ZERO AND NUMERALS. HINDU. HINDU. HINDU. “Arabic” numerals is a misnomer!

    Muslims have not invented ANYTHING. You live permanently in the Dark Ages. Hey “saj” – how’s your computer working out for you, that the WEST invented, along with EVERYTHING ELSE?! Whenever you log on, “saj,” remember – “Infidels” invented your computer! HA-HA!

    You don’t know “God.” You worship a pre-Islamic pagan moon deity your false prophet threw in to his mass-murder political ideology to give it legitimacy. YOU are the one who is “drowning” – in ignorance, hate, and mass-murder. You are living in an Islamic country, right? Otherwise – you’d be a hypocrite, and allah no like that!

  46. says

    Saj, puh-lease! A cross in a jar of urine provokes zero violence from the Christian world, while a cartoon of Mohammed shuts down entire countries for days at a time and people get killed.

  47. says

    saj wrote:

    A world with no Muslims would mean you still throwing shit on each other like in sixteenth century Europe.

    I am more educated than you, trust me you trailer trash.
    ………………..

    Evidently that fine education doesn’t extend to even the most rudimentary knowledge of history, if this is how you choose to characterize the High Renaissance and Age of Exploration.

    More, from above:

    The Pluralism Care Movement, a group comprising interfaith organizations and representatives from moderate Christian and Muslim centers, has called for the U.S. government to prevent the burning.
    ………………..

    I am no fan of this Qur’an burning, for many of the reasons noted above.

    It is to be noted, though, that even in comparatively-free-by-Islamic standards Indonesia, that these Muslims assume the American government is going to violate the first amendment by going in and preventing the church from bar-b-q-ing any damn book they so choose.

  48. says

    lol! You’re nasty and evil, “saj!” You hater! Oh, and you’re ignorant (due to Islam), and undereducated.

    Oh, and stop your polygamous/child brides’ OVER-POPULATING the planet. Cease and desist with your deliberate Demographic Jihad. You Barbarians. Polygamous Barbarians for 1400 years. No wonder there’s so many of you – POLYGAMY. MISOGYNIST POLYGAMY. NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF.

    Instead of a link I don’t want to click on – you provide a list right here of Muslim “inventions!” It will be a tiny little list, so don’t strain your puny brain.

    Waiting.

  49. says

    Talking about Muslim inventions is like talking about Christian inventions. There were some Muslims in the medieval period who did some interesting work in a field like optics. But they didn’t do this because they were Muslim anymore than Pascal, for instance, did his great mathematical work BECAUSE he was a Christian.

    Moreover, the contribution by medieval Islamic societies to mankind has been vastly overrated, just as so-called harmony fostered by Muslims in medival Spain has. As Bertrand Russell noted in his History of Western Philosophy, Muslim thinkers, including the best of them like Avicenna and Averroes, were second-rate and really nothing more than commentators compared to the likes of an Erigena, Anselm or Thomas Aquinas, all of whom were truly original in their thought. On top of this, for the past five hundred years, more like eight hundred, the Islamic world has contributed extremely little to civilization compared to what the West has.

    My God man, just look at the Islamic world today. It is riddled with poverty, torpor, squalor, achivement in virtually nothing and widespread repression. Islamic societies are just about the most dysfuntional societies on earth and would be even more dysfuntional without Western technology and aid. I put much of the blame for this squarely on Islam, which is a prescription for the closing of the mind in ways no other major faith is. Almost all achievements in the medieval period by Muslims were done in spite of, not because of, Islam. Also, a lot of these achievements were actually done by non-Muslims in Muslim lands, something that’s coming more to light in the most up to date historiography of that era.

    And you would please take a long look at whom Muslims consider the Model Man. Mohammed was a damn psychopath and has fraud written all over him. Worst of all, he was a pedophile. When in his fifties he had sexual intercourse with Aisha, who was either eight or nine years old at the time. No loving, merciful, sapient, omniscient, omnipotent deity would ever choose such a man as Mohammed to be his final messenger. Muslims have been had big time thinking Mohammed a good man. He was not. Clever yes, but not good. Remember, the fact that Mohammed was a pedophile will become better and better known with each passing year as more and more millions of people who really had no reason to know much about Islam until recently become apprised of just how wretched Mohammed was. Islam is doomed the more Mohammed’s character becomes known, and for sundry other reasons like death for apostasy and the built-in misogyny in Sharia. It ain’t Prophet Mohammed. It’s Pedophile Mohammed. Enough for now.

  50. says

    You have openly rejected Jesus Christ–which is certainly your choice, so I will not discuss your dismissive questions about Him; as to this question: “Islam is of the devil? That make for reasonable discourse?” …

    May I suggest writing the author of the book, Islam is of the Devil, and presenting your query to him. He wrote the book, not me. Take care.

  51. says

    It’s a good and sound thought, Eleanor. I still think burning any books deeply ineffective in the long run (and ammunition for the ignorant, e.g., Keith Olbermann, in the short run), but there comes a point when you have to cut your losses and look at the larger picture.

    The larger picture of larger pictures is that Islam is so contrary to freedom, democracy, equality under the law, women’s rights, everybody’s right to be wrong about ultimate reality without fear of bodily harm or death in this world, etc., that future history will be deeply bleak if most of mankind does not finally say a giant “NO” to Islam. If this entails many unfortuante deaths in the present, then this is the price that must be paid that the George McClennans of the world will never understand but that the Ulysses S. Grants and Abraham Lincolns always will. Such is the price of liberty. It’s expensive, very, but necessary.

    And may I close here by saying how much I have come to detest the entire Islamic faith. It is petulant, childish, non-productive, whiny, boring, self-pitying, a burden to mankind and beholden to a pedophile as the last and greatest of the prophets. It would be hard to be more screwed up about anything than to be a Muslim. My best to you and yours in a world made less sound and productive because Islam continues to exist.

  52. says

    Yes, quite true. Were I a Muslim and possessed of any real sense of fairness, I would be ashamed of my religion’s hypocrisy. Too bad many more Musims aren’t. Here in America, to invoke the First Amendment and then deny its protections to others is as rank as rank can be. So far, this is Islam’s chief legacy in the history of the American Republic. Anyone care to counter this charge?

  53. says

    Wellington, dearest Wellington,

    Thank you for your response, it’s good to hear from you! Mine are well and I hope you and yours are too. 😀

  54. says

    Yours is easily the best take on this idea that I’ve seen. Read it (the quran verse) and then introduce it to the flames so that people take heed of the verse and the feelings of the people towards it. The MSM will still attempt to edit the heck out of the footage, but that’s why we have the internet – to present the unabridged truth.

    A very good post indeed, PRCS!

  55. says

    LOL! saj you are a STUPID MUSLIM.

    I am more educated than you, trust me, you trailer trash Mohammedan!

    “We can populate how we want, you can keep bumming each other and inevitably you will become extinct and good riddance.” – saj the NASTY Muslim

    You polygamous Barbarians! Hope you become extinct you Barbarians and GOOD RIDDANCE! THE WORLD WILL BE BETTER OFF WITHOUT YOU! WELCOME THAT DAY!

  56. says

    “Muslims were at the forefront of science when the west was in the Dark Ages.”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    You keep deluding yourself, Barbarian. HA-HA! Islam has contributed NOTHING to science, medicine, and technology. You Parasites – living off the West’s discovery and inventions! Muslim PARASITES!

    Can’t even invent numbers – HINDU mathematicians did!

    Muslims – contributed NOTHING to the world but Jihad mass-murder. Oh, and your Warlord FALSE “prophet” SUCKS!

    Now, you go ahead and reply with your hate, Muslim – Computers’ which the WEST invented! “Infidels” invented the Computer! Ha-Ha!

  57. says

    “For Muslims the prophet will always be a beacon of light no matter what you say. Whatever your moral judgement, he is undoubtedly the most influential person in the world and will continue to be so. Muslims will not abandon him or there religion.”
    ————-
    Just as for surviving geriatric Nazis and neo-Nazis, Hitler will always be a “beacon of light.”

    Same thing, except that Hitler was minor in comparison to Mahound, the hydrophobic dog of Islam, the “prophet” you breathlessly drool over.

    Hey Saj, you know, you are not the first apologist to pop by here to spout lies about Mahometan “science” and “discovery.” Your views are just OLD propaganda that is becoming terribly worn around the edges.

    We correctly regard you and your ilk the same as we would regard a flat-earther, if one were to ever post some bullshi’ite here.

    Why don’t you take your little roadshow someplace else, perhaps someplace where the readership is more gullible in that they haven’t studied the truth regarding those exact same lies hundreds of times before, like we have here at JW.