Muslims building mosque on Christian graveyard in Pakistan

No worries — no doubt they mean the mosque (which will of course be called Mandi Bhawaldin 51) to be a gesture of interfaith harmony, reconciliation and peace! Maybe it will even be a community center, with a gym and a swimming pool! “Muslims Resume Building on Christian Graveyard in Pakistan,” from Compass Direct News, September 1:

SARGODHA, Pakistan, September 1 (CDN) — Muslims led by a hard-line cleric on Friday (Aug. 27) resumed building on a Christian cemetery in Mandi Bhawaldin, desecrating more graves in spite of a local government order to halt construction, according to the All Pakistan Minorities Alliance (APMA).

Radical Muslim cleric Mirza Abdul Ghani had built a mosque on the Christian graveyard off New Rasool Road in Mandi Bhawaldin after allegedly occupying the land 16 years ago, when area Christians were too intimidated to object, said Salamat Zia of APMA.

“No one could object to the construction of the mosque, as it is in the constitution of Pakistan that no religious worship place could be demolished,” said Zia. “Therefore all the Christians remained silent then.”

The cleric’s alleged desecration of more of the graveyard land around the Masjid Ahle-Sunnat-Wal-Jamaat mosque began three months ago, Zia said.

“This Christian graveyard was earmarked before the Indo-Pakistan partition on Aug. 14, 1947,” Zia added, “and their forefathers were buried there.” […]

Khalid Gill, chief organizer of APMA in Punjab Province, said that Muslim leaders threatened Christians who objected to the construction.

“They threatened that in case Christians protested against the resumption of construction they would also carry out a protest rally against Christians, and Muslim clerics said Christians would be responsible for the consequences,” Gill said….

Shades of Sharif El-Gamal.

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Comments

  1. says

    They’re building a mosque-o-leum.
    This sort of item will be largely ignored in the West. Pakistan will continue to get aid. Then there are the Jews living over the Green Line. Now that’s a cause for a UN meeting.

  2. says

    >”Radical Muslim cleric Mirza Abdul Ghani had built a mosque on the Christian graveyard off New Rasool Road in Mandi Bhawaldin after allegedly occupying the land 16 years ago, when area Christians were too intimidated to object, said Salamat Zia of APMA.”<

    why do all these people try to differentiate between clerics sayin, “radical” cleric mirza Ghani?? Don’t they know all Muslim clerics are “radicals” if they are to preach the message of Mo/allah through Quran which is all radical by any measure!!

    This kind of Muslim behavior is standard and common in all Muslim countries and even in non-Muslim countries. we are seeing the same behavior from our “moderate” sufi saint Rauf who is trying to build a mosque on Ground Zero where more than 2700 americans were slaughtered by soldiers of Mo/allah!!! Do you see any difference between Rauf and Ghani?? Same radical behavior, true to Islam!!!!

  3. says

    Please stop using the term “radical”.

    There is no moderate Islam, there is only Islam.

    Your choices: a. Convert…. b. Submit…. c. Die.

    I choose the following: d. Hey peace lovers: Go spit up a rope….. Molon Labe.

    Kenny Solomon
    South Florida
    Everything I need to know about Islam I learned at the age of thirteen on September 5th 1972.

  4. says

    Jon proposes:

    “Fostering the growth is Robert Spencer.”

    as usual Jon is biased and incorrect…Mr Spencer only reports Muslim activities and their motives behind those activities…If the Muslims quote they would silence him as they have silenced their critics throughout the ages…usually permanently….Remember Theo Van Gogh or the recent attempts on Kurt Westergaard..Remember too Catholic Bishop Mgr Luigi Padovese assassinated by Muslims who objected to him preaching and warning his people of the dangers of Islam..Even Muslim clerics who preach peace are not immune from those Muslims who insistant on Islam being the one and only Religion…remember Cleric Rahman Gul, his brother and a relative were gunned down because he was preaching peace and condemning the violent actions of his Muslim co-religionists. Who can forget Safia Ama Jan , the Afghan womens right activist who fought to have Islam give more rights to women…Safia was gunned by Islamic “radicals” because she brought forth the truth about the treatment of women under Islams rule…and who can forget Somalia Galkayo 1 0 A Christian woman who was murdered by Islamists inside her home for refusing to wear a veil.

    As Islam marches on , the Muslims continue to eliminate all who know the truth about Islam..usually permanently…Mr Spencer is but one of many who report the activities of Islam and informs anyone who will listen as to what Islam really wants…

    Jon reports that Anti-Muslim protests are seen as a lift for Extremists….well, that is not quite true…Anti-Muslim protests are seen as a threat to Islams march on mankind…a roadblock that must be eliminated….because, as we know…Muslims hate the truth…especially if the Infidels know it…

  5. says

    “Muslims building mosque on Christian graveyard in Pakistan”

    Islam…the great land grab movement…..

    There should be an immediate moratorium on mosque building…considerations should be made to make it permanent..Nothing good has ever come from mosques…Mosques are monuments to Islamic conquest…plain and simple…

  6. says

    Oh, btw, Jon …

    Prisons are FULL of men & women busy blaming the victims of their evil crimes, so please don’t think that muslims are alone in this wrongheaded precept.

  7. says

    Jon mentions: that the US should….

    “…stop blocking a peaceful resolution in Israel….”

    of course the only ones blocking a peaceful resolution are the Palestinians and the other Muslim blocs….

    http://mindyourowndamnbusinesspolitics.com/wordpress/2009/06/15/palestinians-refuse-independence/

    Despite numerous attempts by Israel of the past many decades for a peace settlement…The Palestinians have refused every one….it seems the Palestinians and other Muslims refuse to recognize Israels right to be an independent state…free to rule its own people and its own land…

    I suppose Jon would just prefer the Palestinians rolling in and quickly disposing of all Jews who remained in Israel…

    Here we have Israel offering the Palestinians weapons…offering the Palestinians a safe return of Palestinian prisoners annnnnndddd…giving them more authority over more land…

    http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=20012

    and of course the Palestinians quickly refused as Israel continued to allow Jews to build homes on Jewish land…

    but Jon apparently supports the Muslims and the Palestinians..

    In Jon’s rant about the Japanese, he apparently would have supported a ban on any kind of action against the Japanese while they raped the surrounding lands and it’s people…

    Hey Jon…what would have happened had the Japanese just stopped their massacres, their pillaging , and their land confiscations?…Do you think there would have been a war with Japan?….

    Hey Jon…How about todays Muslim Jihadists…what would happen if they suddenly decided to live in peace and not go out to destroy all religion and civilizations….not to go out and confiscate other peoples possesions , daughters, and land…not to go out and constantly blow up its own people…not to go out to forceably make other bow to its demands and it’s draconian laws?..

    Jon blows a lot of smoke but offers no solutions and refuses to acknowledge the efforts of those who are spreading the alarms and trying to inform people of the imminent threats that threaten them….

    maybe Jon can’t see the forest for the trees…maybe Jon is trying to hide the forest….

  8. says

    People.

    Occam’s Razor says ‘Jon’ is a Mohammedan. Plain and simple.

    If he isn’t, he argues enough like one, that he might as well be one.

    Ignore him.

    Re. Japan, 1930s-1945.

    Jon – if he is not a Mohammedan – should go talk to the Korean ‘comfort women’ and to those people in South Korea who remember how the Japanese overlords, drunk with their own brand of hakko ichiu supremacism, behaved in Korea in the 1930s. There were Christians in South Korea who were *executed* by said Japanese overlords, simply and solely because they refused to publicly bow down, on command, to Amataseru the Sun Goddess; others were beaten, tortured, imprisoned. Perhaps ‘Jon’ thinks the Korean Christians were nasty mean people for ‘provoking’ their Japanese executioners, and deserved to be punished. The Koreans were not shocked by the atomic bomb; indeed, there is some good evidence that certain Koreans even foresaw something like that happening to the Japanese if they persisted in the gross evil, injustice and cruelties in which they had begun to indulge themselves.

  9. says

    I wouldn’t allow a lizard such as Jon to hijack the thread. As I stated yesterday on another thread, this guy is like the iguana in the corner who once-in-a-while burps self-satisfiedly after swallowing a horse fly, but otherwise is just good to keep around for purposes of entertainment.

  10. says

    I would not waste much time or energy on Jon. He feels that some people are just not grasping or comprehending what he is saying. Robert Spencer and everyone here are useful idiots and people like us are the cause of jihad violence and supremacism. I think I got it right. Do you really want to argue with someone who is starting from that premise? This reminds me of my visits to the Huffington Post. The statements the commenters come up with, the false analogies, red herrings, and outrageous assertions. Answering them would be a never-ending process of circular futility. (Fortunately, they bring all their negativity into play with each other, as well, over the smallest disagreements, so it bodes ill for their holding on to power.)
    It’s clear to most of us at this site what Muslims have done in many, many countries, long before the name “America” was known. They killed millions in India alone. What do you suppose was the cause of that?

    As DDA said, this is an article about the desecration of a Christian cemetery in Pakistan and the intimidation of the Christian community. Can you imagine how fearful they must be to be cowed into silence in the face of such an outrageous act by a so-called religious leader?

    Unfortunately, this is what Muslims do and have done. As they feel themselves stronger in the West they will dare to encroach further and further here, as well, just as they are doing in Europe. There is time to stop this process as long as people wake up to it — and they are, in droves.

  11. says

    This is the Middle East, they love to watch living creatures suffer. They are even like that with animals. If these type of people lived in America. We would terrorize them w/ all kinds names.
    They ain’t nothing but a bunch of sex offenders, and maniacs.
    Therefore, anybody from the Mideast shouldn’t even be allowed to come to the United States. You just don’t know how much we’ve got it made here in the U.S.

  12. says

    Total nonsense Jon!!1 Robert Spencer is exposing the Muslim lies. Muslims are and have been radical all along since the seventh century!!

  13. says

    Jon said “One would think Muslims are becoming more radical. Fostering the growth is Robert Spencer. Anti-Muslim Protests are Seen as a Lift for Extremists. You should stop.”

    Appeasement should stop. It’s what caused the last great war, World War 2. People appeased Hitler as he grew in power until it was too late.

    Radicals are radical no matter what you do. The claim by NYT’s that we are encouraging radicals by standing up to them is kind of idiotic reasoning that Leftists use to get us into these messes (like WW2).

    If someone becomes Radical because we stood up for our values then the reality is they were already radical but using a concept called Al-Taqiyya to hide their true nature. That we are seeing the true nature of Islam ever more is not surprising. Too many have been in denial for far too long. One only need look to the UK to see the results.

  14. says

    Fostering the growth is Robert Spencer. Anti-Muslim Protests are Seen as a Lift for Extremists. You should stop.

    The statement of a coward…

  15. says

    “Muslims building mosque on Christian graveyard in Pakistan

    I read where Saddam had the helmets of dead enemy soldiers sunk in the cement of a busy sidewalk in Baghdad, so that the Iraqi people could step on the heads of the enemy…This kind of symbolism seems to be common with Islam…

  16. says

    ” One would think Muslims are becoming more radical.Fostering the growth is Robert Spencer “.

    Oh, I get it now, thanks Jon. If Spencer remained silent and stopped speaking out and reporting on these articles, Muslims would stop misbehaving.

    Brilliant analysis. Hugh has nothing on you.

  17. says

    Threat noted. But why would it do that? Islamic supremacists and Leftists know: no matter how much they lie about the words, deeds, and positions on various questions of mosque opponents, and no matter how much they defame and smear them, those who oppose the mosque are never, never going to strap bombs on themselves and blow themselves up at the next hand-wringing meeting about “Islamophobia.” In other words, some people, no matter how hard you push them, never become “radicalized.” Why is it that adherents of the Religion of Peace who supposedly reject the version of Islam of Al-Qaeda and its ilk as a twisting and hijacking of their peaceful religion might nevertheless adopt that version of Islam as their own if they believe that some people are being mean to them? – Robert Spencer.

  18. says

    Jon, these Islamist clerics don’t need Robert Spencer, as an excuse to incite violence. But they are certainly not above using anything, or anyone, to promote jihad. It’s all part of their game of deception and treachery.

    Do you, or any so called experts, actually believe that if Spencer remained silent, the jihad would end ?

    That defies common sense. Spencer provides an invaluable service by reporting, analyzing, and commenting on the Islamists activities. And for speaking out against them. And it is his right as an American citizen, to do so.

    I simply cannot understand why you fail to see that.

    And your comparison of us to Hezbollah is faulty. Exposing the jihadist activity, and being against the GZM, is quite different matter from the thugs of Hezbollah, who are armed with military grade weapons, and will not hesitate to use them when they are ready to strike.

    Compare that to the peaceful demonstrators, who are against the GZM mosque.Nothing in common.

    Nothing at all.

  19. says

    “They say that Robert Spencer’s behavior serves to confirm the claims of the radical Islamist clerics and serves to swell the ranks of radical Muslim extremists.”

    lol! …so who was *swelling the ranks* before 9/11? Jihad Watch began AFTER this terrorist attack, dontchaknow. Wow, there is always someone else to blame, right, Jon? Yeah, muslims blame everyone else for their evil deeds, but fail to look in the mirror and blame the real culprit: THEMSELVES.

    islam is an evil cult — and yes, you are living proof.

  20. says

    So, Jon, Hezbollah accepted the repairment of a synagogue in Beirut and Americans protest against a mosque near or on Ground Zero, but only there, because of sensitivity.

    And then you come and try to paint the followers of Islam as being more tolerant as the adherents to the secular democratic system??? We should look at the whole picture in the whole world and compare the 2 groups. Then, with tolerance measured, secular democracy overwhelmingly beats the Islamic theocracy or the states dominated by it.

    And that is our starting point. Complete reciprocity between the 2 systems; secular democratic, and Islamic theocratic, as practised in Islamic states. Including the right to apostasize en convert out and into (almost) every possible religion.

    That is in my and our estimation only a fair and reasonable, and yes, democratic goal, striving for equal rights under the law, all over the world (why not, isn’t Islam striving for a worldwide goal also?).

    It’s in defense of other religions against a supremacist one. One that is illustrating it’s supremacy-lust and thus intolerence all the time in its own territories. Then has the gall to protest against unequal and discriminating treatment of it by the followers of other persuasions.

    Now, these experts of yours have a point; when someone is attacking my cherished beliefs, I also start to think frantically about them and my first reaction is to try to find as many reasons as I can to mightily refute the arguments of the opponents. And yes, that makes me much more aware and strengthened in my convictions in favor of beliefs. And it does make me agitated, but not violent.

    But … that’s only in the initial stages. Later on, well, continually thinking, I start to come to grips with my opponents arguments and, while rejecting the unreasonable ones, I start to see sense in the more reasonable ones. As I must, to avoid charges of hypocrisy, after more thorough investigation of my own cherished beliefs and comparing them with other’s beliefs. And isn’t that a very good thing?

    Also, younger generations incorporate the opponents’ arguments in their mindset and try to come to grips with them rationally, much more comprehensively.

    And if Muslims radicalize in response to really fair, reasonable criticisms-exposures-protests-accountable-holdings, then these radicalized Muslims are the unreasonable ones.

    And unreasonable people, who before were just a lot more ignorant, unpractising about their religion, can be SHOWN to be unreasonable, to the world. And it can be argued, that there always are some unreasonable people, and we should stand up to their demands and threats. Rewarding only reasonable people with concessions.

    No, what you and your experts tell us, that just boils down to yet another attempt of censorship!

  21. says

    “so who was *swelling the ranks* before 9/11?”

    Nobody, which is why OBL was despised in the Muslim world. He was nothing prior to 9/11 and even after 9/11 he was condemned throughout. Consider the candle light vigil held in Tehran immediately following the attacks on the towers, which Iranians did in solidarity with the United States and against OBL. But now we have a fully flowered Muslim hating industry, lead by people like Spencer, and Al Qaeda’s ranks have swelled. OBL is admired by more Muslims than ever. This is due of course not only to Spencer, but also our government’s blundering overreaction, including the initiation of a couple of wars against entities that had nothing to do with the 9/11 atrocities.

    This is why Michael Scheuer, the senior CIA analysis responsible for tracking bin Laden, calls the US “bin Laden’s only indispensable ally.” Without our blundering overreaction OBL’s dreams of a worldwide Muslim theocracy could never be realized. He wants a holy war pitting Islam against the West. He relies on Spencer to achieve that, and he couldn’t be more happy with Spencer’s behavior.

  22. says

    ” Without our blundering over reaction OBL’s dreams of a worldwide Muslim theocracy could never be realized “.

    That is complete and utter BS.

    By that logic, the US should have done nothing, after the attack on Pearl Harbor.

    And even if the attacks on 9/11 never happened, we wouldn’t have to worry about jihad attacks ? What about the prior attack on the World Trade center, in 1993, before OBL became a household name ?

    No, OBL was merely the point of the spear on a much larger movement.

    If OBL had been killed, or captured prior to the 9/11 attacks, jihad against the infidel states would have continued.

  23. says

    “By that logic, the US should have done nothing, after the attack on Pearl Harbor.”

    You should always consider the causes of a violent action. That way you can consider how to go about addressing them. The Japanese didn’t attack because they’re just obnoxious jerks. There were causes, and it would have been wise to address them instead of ignoring them. So let’s consider them.

    Japan of course was an oil importer. The US put a blockade on Japan preventing them from receiving oil. The Japanese high command estimated that they had 2 years of oil left. They either needed to cave to US pressure with regards to their brutal policies towards China or they would need to physically break the blockade. How to do it? Cripple the US naval fleet.

    The Japanese were also well aware of the public statements reported in US newspapers about how Tokyo was regarded as a paper city that can easily be burned to the ground. They were also well that bombers were rolling off the assembly lines and were headed for the Philippines.

    Japan attempted to negotiate an agreement that would free up oil imports. These negotiations basically failed. When that occurred US planners realized that they needed to prepare for an attack, which they expected would occur in the Philippines.

    It is wise at that stage for the US to decide if they want to address Japanese grievances or prepare to suffer the consequences. That’s exactly what they did do and in my mind they made the right decision. In my mind the risk of an attack was worth the price because Japan’s policies towards China were quite brutal. But this is not an easy decision. Ultimately it roped the United States into a war that killed 100 million people. Was there another way? I don’t know, but it’s worth asking the question.

    We face the same kinds of questions today with regards to Islamic violence. Our opponents demand that we close down the military bases in their countries, stop blocking a peaceful resolution in Israel, stop supporting brutal dictators in the region that export the oil resources on terms that major oil companies like, etc. US planners have once again asked themselves if the benefits (control of these vital resources for rich and powerful companies) is worth the costs (massive death among Arabs, some suffering of Westerners at the hands of Islamic violence). They have decided that the death is worth the costs because they are more interested in serving their corporate masters than protecting the lives of Arabs or Americans.

    This is the real issue, and our governmental leaders understand it. People here at this website don’t understand. They’re off in this other world talking about the Islamic faith as if that’s the real issue. That is something our government kind of likes, because it permits them to pursue the violent agenda that their corporate masters require while distracting the public from what the real issues are. Robert Spencer is either a useful idiot or he’s in fact aware that what he says is distraction but he’s playing others so that they become the useful idiots.

  24. says

    They’re off in this other world talking about the Islamic faith as if that’s the real issue.

    It is the real issue, and there is 1400 years of violent jihad behind it. You and your leftist “blame America first” mentality and political correctness is what is in another world here.

    It’s also worth mentioning the irony in you accusing others of being “useful idiots.” Now, go back to carrying the water for the jihad movement like the good liberal dhimmi that you are.

  25. says

    At first, I read your comment with great interest.

    But you lost me, when you started carrying on about Spencer being a ” useful idiot “,etc.

    You sound like a typical leftist, when you make assertions like that, and don’t back them up with FACTS. I am a man who deals with facts. Put up or shut up..

    Spencer can, and does, speak for himself. But show me ONE example, at anytime, anywhere, where Spencer has mislead anyone.

    I will be the first one to say that you are correct.

    It’s fine to discuss history. And the armchairs are full of modern day MacArthur s, who can now comment in hindsight, which is always 20 / 20.

    Anyone who has who graduated from high school ( prior to 1985), knows what the causes were that led up to WW2.

    With limited hindsight, I can tell you this much – based on the history of Islam, and from what is written in the Koran : Islam, like Nazism and Communism, seek to dominate the world. And Islam is more dangerous, because it has a ” Divine “, sanction.

    You also write that ” people here at this website don’t understand “. I think that it is you, who does not understand.

    Use facts, like Spencer does, to back up what you say, instead of assuming that the people on this site are ignorant.

    That’s a simple request.

  26. says

    You call what Netenyahu offered a peace proposal? Palestinians must give up everything AND DEMILITARIZE as they live next to a very hostile neighbor?

    Look, we have a peace proposal that’s voted on every year by the entire world. The so called “final status” issues, which are regarded as the primary roadblocks to peace have been ruled upon by the International Court of Justice and Israel was found to be in violation in every case. The settlements are illegal. The separation walls within occupied Palestine are illegal. The blockade is illegal. Netanyahu says that despite the fact that the law is on the Palestinian side he’s just going to demand that they give up everything. What if the Palestinians offered a settlement that demanded the right of return, withdrawal from settlements, and return to the 1947 borders. Would it make sense to say that Israel just rejects peace since it doesn’t accept this proposal?

    The whole world, including the Arab world, stands on one side ready to accept peace. Israel and the US stand virtually alone rejecting peace. Go here to see the roll call of the most recent vote.

    http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/another-close-vote-at-the-united-nations/

    As far as the rest regarding Japan, you simply have failed to read me closely enough to comprehend what I said.

  27. says

    DDA, the fact that you read me in such a way that you think I would deny Japanese brutality is just sad. You are apparently extremely immersed in this mentality that says that if you consider the causes of someone’s behavior you automatically think they’re just wonderful and would never do anything wrong.

    The events at Pearl Harbor had causes. That doesn’t mean the Japanese weren’t brutal to everyone around them. They were. The events of 9/11 had causes. That doesn’t mean I think OBL is great. What is wrong with you? Is this really that hard to grasp?

  28. says

    “What is wrong with you? Is this really that hard to grasp?”

    Lets play pretend! …lets pretend that you are looking in the mirror while asking that question, shall we, lol …

  29. says

    Jon

    The subject of the thread is that a bunch of arrogant supremacist Muslims in Pakistan are desecrating a Christian graveyard by illegally building a mosque right on top of it.

    Do you approve of what those Muslims, in Pakistan, are doing to those Christians, in Pakistan?

    Yes or No?

  30. says

    Assuming it’s true I disapprove. But is it surprising? You treat Muslims in a hostile way. Are you shocked that they are starting to treat Christians in a hostile way?

    Don’t distract the discussion to a thousand years ago. Sometimes Muslims were hostile to non-Muslims and sometimes they weren’t. Sometimes Christians were hostile to non-Christians and sometimes they weren’t. The fact is the commissioned studies and reports tell us what behaviors we engage in that promote Islamic extremism TODAY. It’s the very kinds of behaviors Spencer promotes. This is not my opinion. I’m quoting the experts and studies. If you really have a problem with what these Muslims in Pakistan are doing you should consider appropriate strategies for dealing with it. Crushing moderate Muslims, like the Imam at the supposed “Ground Zero” Mosque, is a good way to engender more extremism.

  31. says

    Here is an example on how Palestinians think about “peace”.

    Thirteen Gaza militant groups have joined forces to launch a wave of attacks against Israel, Reuters reported on Thursday.

    Hamas reportedly announced after Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas launched peace talks that the 13 groups would step up “more effective attacks” against Israel.

    When asked if the renewed attacks would include suicide bombings, the Hamas spokesman reportedly answered: “All options are open.”

    Also on Thursday, Hamas condemned the launch of direct talks, saying its goal is to “liquidate” the Palestinian cause, and accusing Abbas of allowing Israel to build settlements in the West Bank and denying refugees’ “right of return.”

    It certainly looks like all the roadblocks to peace are being erected by the Palestinians…

  32. says

    Who denies that Palestinians engage in violence? That’s what happens when you occupy a foreign country, deprive it of food, and slaughter the inhabitants by the thousands, including thousands of children. What I’m saying is, what is your strategy for stopping it? For one the US and Israel could join the world and accept the international consensus for a 2 state settlement. Continuing to expand settlements in occupied Palestinian territory, continuing to deprive them of food, and continuing to prefer expansion to peace means you will get your expansion but you won’t get your peace. That decision is up to Israel and the United States.

  33. says

    Well, for certain, the Palestinians don’t deny the violence…It’s Jihad…it’s a nifty little Muslim term the Muslims use every day and it’s not limited just to Gaza…no where in the Islamic texts does it say to compromise with the Infidels or to give them a little land to call their own…..the Islamic texts do not direct Muslims to pacify the infidels…the Islamic texts do not tell the Muslims co-exist with the Infidels….the Islamic texts do not tell the Muslims to be happy with any prior land boundaries…absolutely not….but Islam tells Muslims they must always be superior, they must always control their destiny, they must never allow Non Muslims any kind of power that would rescue them from becoming Dhimmis …..

    The goals of the Palestinians may not necessarily include an all out war…but they may certainly include a plan to spread terror upon all Non Muslim wherever they are found..a cut here…a cut there…It is an Islamic plan to keep this wave on ongoing little cuts upon no only the Jews…but the Buddists, The Hindus, the Catholics, The Protestants, the Copts…and virtually everyone else on the planet…

    As far a a strategy is concerned…I would recommend as others have (in far more eloquent words than I am capable of using) would be to promote as much conflict between incompatible Muslim groups as possible…Sunni vs Shi’its….Fatah vs Hamas…Non Arab Muslims against Arab Muslims….all have shown great eagerness to kill each other…I say go ahead and promote it….and really support those non Arab Muslims such as the Kurds who wish to discard that old Saudia Arabia led supremacism that wishes to control all aspects of their lives….

    I would do as much as possible to educate all NOn Muslims about the Islamic mindset that is destroying the Middle East amd elsewhere…oh there are plenty of mini movies like Fitna, Submission , or Obsession to give realtime visuals of current events and the words of the Muslim clerics and leaders that are used to incite the masses…

    The Muslims would never abide by a two state solution…history shows they have rejected every two state proposal….history also shows the Muslims have made sure that peace treaties or Peace negotiations fail…The Muslims will continue their Jihad one cut at a time.. constantly on going…one cut here…one cut there..why do you think the Palestinians continually fire those Qassam rockets into Israel? It’s to keep the fear factor up….The Israelis have to be thinking ” What if the Muslims get bigger rockets?”…which is a valid concern and the Muslims do indeed have bigger rockets ….and they plan to use them in the near future…..

    Jon …you mention food deprivation….well that’s just not true…have you seen the photographs of the well stocked Palestinian food bazaars?….there is no shortage of food…much to the Dismay of Hamas and Fatah…both of whom continually hampers food deliveries coming from Israel…yes.Israel…Israel who continues to provide food, medicine, clothing, and water to the Palestinians…What do the Muslims provide?….rockets and explosives and Qur’ans…

    As far as your concern for “occupying a foreign country”…bwahahahaha..Palistine is not a country,,it has never been a country….Prior to 1947 or 1948 you will not find on any map or literature designating Palestine as a country…maybe a particular geographic location…i.e. “rocky mountains’, or maybe “great smokey mountains’ or “the alps’ or “the himalayas”….but these are not countries…they are locations….THe land you refer to as Palestine has been (even long before Islam) a Jewish Land….

    Regarding peace you mention “That decision is up to Israel and the United States.”….you couldn’t be more wrong…it is up to the Muslims…and we know how they feel about peace…”They don’t want it”…

    Oddly you didn’t mention the Wall Israel is erecting along the Palestinian border….you should …it is important..since it has been under construction the number of Palestinian suicide attacks have been dramatically lowered. Of course you failed to mention that the victims of Palestinian suicide attach generally are innocent civilians….but did you also know Egypt is also building a wall along its border with Palestine…and it has been the scene of many Palestinian riots and the ensuing deaths that occur when Muslims riot….

    btw…what would your strategy be for promoting peace in Palestine?…do you have one?

  34. says

    Yes, jon, let’s ask who is the decision up to?

    Before arguing about who has done or neglected what and comparing the 2 sides in that respect;

    First just let us make sure that we consider both Israeli’s and Palestinians in majority sane adult humans. Let us make absolutely sure that both can choose to change, because both have almost the exact same genes and brains.

    Else; it would mean that the one that you blame, you consider the one that can change, like an sane adult human and the one that you do not blame, is the one that cannot change, more like: a simple-minded, childish, human-shaped animal.

    I am absolutely sure that the vast majority of Westerners, Indians and Jihad Watchers consider both parties roughly capable of choosing to change, being at least in part sane adult humans. I think you should commit yourself to that too Jon.

    And then not consider the options the Israeli’s do not choose, but those that the Palestinians do not choose, in favor of future wealth and happiness for their children.

    Or better yet, Jon, eat your heart out, and finally, at last, admit that, maybe, the Israeli’s really are incorrigible, like simple-minds, obstinate children or the animals you often make them out to be. Why haven’t you reached that state yet, anyway? You have my permission, you seem to have done it so far with the Palestinians.

    And after that, why don’t you focus on your admired Palestinians, to let them for a change, be the responsible ones, the most wise ones?

    Giving in wisely on a mere land-issue (and land will NOT make their children happy, but wealth as opposed to dire poverty will help much for happiness of future generations) in favor of a peace that with a few concessions is and has been for some time now, easily within their grasp?