Nicholas Kristof: "Screeds against Catholics from the 19th century sounded just like the invective today against the Not-at-Ground-Zero Mosque"

Nicholas Kristof doesn't think that those who are determined to resist the jihad and Islamic supremacism are bigots. Thank heaven for small favors. He just thinks we're idiots. "America's History of Fear," by Nicholas D. Kristof for the New York Times, September 4 (thanks to all who sent this in):

A radio interviewer asked me the other day if I thought bigotry was the only reason why someone might oppose the Islamic center in Lower Manhattan. No, I don't. Most of the opponents aren't bigots but well-meaning worriers -- and during earlier waves of intolerance in American history, it was just the same.

Screeds against Catholics from the 19th century sounded just like the invective today against the Not-at-Ground-Zero Mosque. The starting point isn't hatred but fear: an alarm among patriots that newcomers don't share their values, don't believe in democracy, and may harm innocent Americans.

Yes, yes, of course. You may recall from the histories of those days that Catholics newly arrived in the U.S. in the 19th century loudly proclaimed that they were there to take over, and numerous Catholics engaged in terror plotting, as well as in non-violent attempts to assert the primacy of Catholic canon law over American law. You remember the Fort Hood Catholic shooting, the Arkansas recruiting center Catholic shooting, the Christmas underwear bomb Catholic Crusade attempt, the Times Square Catholic car bomb attempt, the Fort Dix Catholic Crusade plot, the North Carolina Crusade plot, the Seattle Catholic shooting, the JFK Airport Crusade plot, and on and on. No wonder non-Catholics were suspicious, and in all good faith wanted Catholics to show that they rejected the wellsprings of all this violence and supremacism.

No, wait! Those weren't plots by 19th-century Catholic immigrants, but by 21st-century Muslims in the U.S.! My mistake!

Followers of these movements against Irish, Germans, Italians, Chinese and other immigrants were mostly decent, well-meaning people trying to protect their country. But they were manipulated by demagogues playing upon their fears -- the 19th- and 20th-century equivalents of Glenn Beck.

Does Nicholas Kristof really think that Glenn Beck and those who are telling the whole truth about violent and stealthy jihad activity in the U.S. (i.e., not Glenn Beck) are more of a threat to the United States than the Islamic jihadists whose threat he so blithely dismisses?

Most Americans stayed on the sidelines during these spasms of bigotry, and only a small number of hoodlums killed or tormented Catholics, Mormons or others. But the assaults were possible because so many middle-of-the-road Americans were ambivalent.

Suspicion of outsiders, of people who behave or worship differently, may be an ingrained element of the human condition, a survival instinct from our cave-man days. But we should also recognize that historically this distrust has led us to burn witches, intern Japanese-Americans, and turn away Jewish refugees from the Holocaust.

I couldn't care less how differently Muslims or anyone else may behave or worship. As Thomas Jefferson said, such differences neither pick my pocket nor break my leg. It is only when these different behavior involve an impulse to convert, subjugate or kill me and destroy a great civilization that I think it's time to call a halt in the name of freedom and human rights, and no amount of opprobrium from the ridiculous Kristof is going to make me desist.

Perhaps the closest parallel to today's hysteria about Islam is the 19th-century fear spread by the Know Nothing movement about "the Catholic menace." One book warned that Catholicism was "the primary source" of all of America's misfortunes, and there were whispering campaigns that presidents including Martin Van Buren and William McKinley were secretly working with the pope. Does that sound familiar?

No.

Critics warned that the pope was plotting to snatch the Mississippi Valley and secretly conspiring to overthrow American democracy. "Rome looks with wistful eye to domination of this broad land, a magnificent seat for a sovereign pontiff," one writer cautioned.

About the pope, that was sheer fantasy. This is not fantasy: The Muslim Brotherhood "must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions." -- "An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Brotherhood in North America," by Mohamed Akram, May 19, 1991.

Oh, and by the way, regarding that "Not-At-Ground-Zero Mosque": the Burlington Coat Factory building that will be torn down to make way for this mosque is part of Ground Zero. The landing gear from one of the jetliners hijacked on September 11, 2001 flew into the building that the Islamic supremacists want to tear down to construct their mosque. That makes this building part of the 9/11 attack site, and will make the mosque -- in the eyes of the Islamic world -- exactly what the Dome of the Rock is: a mosque of victory built right on the site of the Muslim defeat of the Infidels. The Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque, built on the site of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, are declarations of the superiority of Islam over Judaism, and its victory over Judaism. The mosque at the Burlington Coat Factory site, built on the site -- not near it, but on it, because of that landing gear -- of the Islamic jihad attack on September 11, 2001, will be seen as a declaration of the superiority of Islam over the United States, and its victory over the American economic machine.

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Well in the 19th century there is no doubt that the Papacy was a determined enemy of democracy (it remained so well into the 20th century) and so I think there was a basis for American democrats' concern about what the influx of millions of followers of the Roman catholic religion would mean for their democratic nation.

Certainly the experience in the UK 100-300 years earlier had been that the Papacy was actively seeking to replace Parliamentary rule with an absolute monarchy.

However, there was never any evidence - as Robert points out - that American Roman Catholics were organising to overthrow democracy, whereas there is sadly far too much knowledge of that kind in relation to Islam within and outside America.

Does Nicholas Kristof really think that Glenn Beck and those who are telling the whole truth about violent and stealthy jihad activity in the U.S. (i.e., not Glenn Beck) are more of a threat to the United States than the Islamic jihadists whose threat he so blithely dismisses?

That's the funniest thing about this. Glenn Beck isn't significantly more informed about Islam and jihad than Olbermann and his lesbian sycophant Rachel Maddow. Beck has sided with the politically correct, mainstream interpretation of Islam on numerous occasions. Same thing with O'Reilly. The only one that has a decent understanding of the problem is Hannity, and even he seems clueless at times.

The only reason Glenn Beck is mentioned in this article is because he has become a joke that the left frequently uses to discredit conservatives.

Hatred of 'The Other'
It isn't Muslims who are 'The Other'. According to Islamic law, all Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs etc are lumped together as 'The Other', though some are more Other than others:

"Islam divides people into two antagonistic groups - Muslims (collectively known as the Ummah) versus Kaffirs (aka Kufr, Kuffars, Infidels or non-believers).

Kaffirs are subdivided further - Jews and Christians who accept the supremacy of Islam are known as Dhimmis, and are allowed to live as second-class citizens, provided they pay the extortionate Jizya (infidel tax) to their Muslim masters. However the Jews must be exterminated eventually before world Islamic domination can be achieved. Christians will then be kept as slaves, since somebody has to do the work.

The state of being a submissive Dhimmi is known as Dhimmitude.

Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus, Pagans and members of all other 'non-Abrahamic' religions, together with secularists, and those Jews and Christians who do not accept Muslim domination, are regarded as Harbis - targets of war.

Islam is at permanent war with Harbis, even if the Harbis don't actually do anything to annoy Muslims. The Harbis' mere existence is itself an act of war. A Harbi has no rights, not even the right to live... "
http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/02/harbis-and-islam-harbi-has-no-right-to.html


Perhaps the inestimable Mr. Kristof will be singing a different tune of "well-meaning worry" when he sees a black hole where the Venus de Milo used to stand. Perhaps he, too, will warble a worried tune.

Kristof wrote:

Most Americans stayed on the sidelines during these spasms of bigotry, and only a small number of hoodlums killed or tormented Catholics, Mormons or others.

He has his history wrong: actually, not only did a "small number of hoodlums" attack the Mormons -- the Governor of Missouri levied soldiers and received support from the Federal government to fight, kill, and expel Mormons from that territory.

What would Kristof have written in 1838, when the following order was published by the Governor of Missouri?

Copy of a Military Order by the Governor of Missouri. HEAD QUARTERS, MILITIA, City of Jefferson, Oct. 27, 1838.

Sir:--Since the order of the morning to you, directing you to cause four hundred mounted men to be raised within your division, I have received by Amos Rees, Esq. and Wiley E. Williams Esq., one of my aids, information of the most appalling character, which changes the whole face of things, and places the Mormons in the attitude of an open and avowed defiance of the laws, and of having made open war upon the people of this state. Your orders are, therefore, to hasten your operations and endeavor to reach Richmond, in Ray County, with all possible speed. The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the state, if necessary, for the public good. Their outrages are beyond all description. If you can increase your force, you are authorized to do so to any extent you may think necessary. I have just issued orders to Maj. Gen. Wallock, of Marion County, to raise 500 men and march them to the northern part of Daviess, and there unite with Gen. Doniphan, of Clay, who has been ordered with 500 men to proceed to the same point, for the purpose of intercepting the retreat of the Mormons to the North. They have been directed to communicate with you by express. You can also communicate with them if you find it necessary. Instead, therefore, of proceeding, as at first directed, to reinstate the citizens of Daviess in their homes, you will proceed immediately to Richmond, and there operate against the Mormons. Brig. Gen. Parks, of Ray, has been ordered to have four hundred men of his brigade in readiness to join you at Richmond. The whole force will be placed under your command. L. W. BOGGS, Gov. And Command-in-chief. To Gen. Clark.

Daniel Pearl would likely dispute Mr. Kristof's suicidally-delusional estimation of Islam.

Had his head not been removed by a jihadi.

(Mr. Kristof appears to have removed his own with stuporously-strained sophistries.)

Most of the opponents aren't bigots but well-meaning worriers -- Nicholas Kristof

yes and in the 30's in Germany, Austria, Poland many worried about the rise of National Socialism and look how well that turned out - move on nothing to worry about here.

The Left wants to continue to treat us like idiots by trolling out these contrived arguments. They are on the defensive so watch out there will be plenty more.

I read this bit of idiocy yesterday. As Robert notes, Catholics in the 19th century were not blowing up buildings, nor was the Vatican vowing to overthrow the US government and replace it with a papal-led theocracy. The parallel is entirely spurious.

The group that came closest to this was the anarchists, who really did launch bombings, assassinated President William McKinley in 1901, and advocated for the overthrow of government.

Profitsbeard wrote:

Daniel Pearl would likely dispute Mr. Kristof's suicidally-delusional estimation of Islam.

Had his head not been removed by a jihadi.
.................

Would that this were true, Profitsbeard. While I have enormous sympathy for Daniel Pearl and his poor bereft widow and child, he was deep in denial about the true nature of Jihad, and may well have remained in such denial until the end.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -
-- Thomas Jefferson

words to live by and resits the attempts by the Left to put us to sleep again.

"I think it's time to call a halt in the name of freedom and human rights,"


Call a halt to WHAT exactly your Bobbishness? Having trouble completing a thought these days? Maybe you need some Spiritual counseling? In that vein, I'm always available, call me anytime...

Allah Bless America!!!


L. W. BOGGS for President! Good one Hesp..Two years and counting..

No matter how pretty the package, poop is still poop!

"Allah Bless America"..allah who?

Whatever happened to "good fences make good neighbours"?

Nicholas Kristof is a dyed-in-the-wool useful idiot. He works for an organization that gave us the term "Islamic fundamentalism" as a means not of accurately assessing the Iranian Revolution or Deobandis, but as a way to make Evangelical Christians look un-American back when they were abandoning the Democratic Party in Jimmy Carter's hour of need. His columns on Evangelical political organization (started on behalf of keeping private education, less government interference in private charity, and opposition to abortion) long reflected a knee-jerk bigotry, until he realized that we were too numerous to go away during his lifetime. After that, he started throwing us patronizing sops from time to time.

As an American Leftists, minorities can never be in the wrong. To use the Mormon example that he raises, he never considers that the early Mormons were working to become a state within a state. nor does he consider the ugliness of polygamy that Joseph Smith wanted to introduce even before the Mormon migration. Nor does he consider such things as "blood atonement" practiced in the Utah territory when people's "sins" against Mormon doctrine or leadership became to serious; or things like the Mountain Meadow Massacre.

As far as screeds against Roman Catholic immigrants (at a time when Protestant German immigrants were being allowed to turn the American Midwest into a bilingual world and the Scandinavians and Netherlanders permitted to form enclaves that lasted down to the 20th century), Kristof never considers the historical memories of a good many Protestant communities. Irish Protestants still have a hard time forgetting the 1642 massacres. The memory of the later, RC Stewarts probably did not sit well with Americans who traced their descent to English Puritans or Scots Presbyterians. German Protestants probably knew something of the Salzburgers, Lutherans forced to leave the territory of the Prince-Bishop, or face the consequences.

And now, Mr. Kristof probably does not take into account the following unhappy facts:

1. There is a portion of Mideastern-descended folk in this country whose memories of Islamic assertiveness are nightmarish--even if our one-time Sec. of Education, Donna Shalala, apparently had Lebanese Greek Orthodox forebears whose experience of Turkish rule was apparently nothing but neighborly breaking out the hummus and coffee.

2. The rest of us know all too well the behavior of Muslim international students (although, for Yusef K's benefit, I will note that they tend to be those from Bangladesh and points West).

3. Others of us got our intro to Islam in 9/11 and its immediate aftermath, including that horrible Saudi prince's demand that Giuliani play the dhimmi to get Saudi help.

4. Islamic supremacism is far too evident enywhere where Muslims--at least those from core Islamic countries--settle.


This comment is off-topic, but relevant. Be sure to note the Joseph Smith comparison.

This guest column appeared in the 'Opinion' section of the September 5th Wisconsin State Journal.

"Islam is not the Enemy",
By Jonathan Biatch and Charles L. Cohen
(Rabbi and Professor, respectively.)

(Snippets)

"...We are disgusted by recent attempts in various U.S. Cities to intimidate Muslim Americans, people who wish to simply exercise their constitutional rights. Anti-Islam activities in New York City, Murfreesboro, Tenn., Sacramento, California and elsewhere soberly remind us that hatred can fester in any locale."

"We believe that the current attacks on Islam go deeper than fear of terrorism. They put forward the canard that Islam is fundamentally at odds with American values, a viewpoint that we categorically reject. These assaults recall others on religious and non-religious minorities:
* Catholics were thoughts minions of a foreign potentate.
* Mormons were hounded because Joseph Smith was (like Muhammad) regarded as a false prophet.
* Jews were charged with deicide
* Athiests were deemed unfit to hold public office.

"The adversary is religious extremism and intolerance for differences."


Thank you for this post, sir. May reason prevail in the end. I

Allow me to qualify my previous post...

The key argument that this article puts forth is summed up in the last sentence:
"We urge Americans of all backgrounds, whether religious or not, likewise to examine themselves and affirm the values that make us a people: freedom of conscience and respect for different religious heritages."

I posit that the writers of this opinion piece have effectively patted themselves on the head for their tolerance, and taken the high ground, so they can deem themselves superior to anyone who is afraid of Islam. As they look down on us from their lofty academic posts or pulpits or whatever. How is it that intelligent people can't see that the hijackers were financed by the same people financing the Cordoba Center, is beyond me to figure.

It made me physically ill to read Kristof's editorial in the NYT yesterday. It shows that the Left is totally and dangerously delusional. One bright note was that about 40% of the comments were negative. Probably more so since the Times edits comments.

Rick, you're absolutely right. But, take heart. Even Christopher Hitchens had his moment of lucidity a while back. Maybe Nicky Kristof will wake up, too.

Pip,

I think you're asking too much of these people to take an honest look at Islam. They have too much of their own personal self-image invested in this delusional view of Islam as a religion of peace sitting well with American values.

Well, I see Krystof's mistake.

He looks at recent immigrants and crime statistics and the well-meaning worriers about that. So in the 19th century the recent Irish immigrants were both on average more criminal and more resented. Same with Portoricans in the seventies and eighties. But crime fell in the nineties in towns like New York. In Holland the recently immigrated Antillians are now on average much more criminal than the original population.

But the ideology and goals of Muslims make them different and more long-term-separated and dangerous, Krystof if naive and it's really ignorant, arrogant and irresponsible the way he tells us there is no long term Islamic ambition and danger/ threat.

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